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2014-02-06 by dwv1957@...
2014-02-06 by Windrumscoggin
Very cool So I can boot from my E5000 without the floppy installed? I have the optional hard drive installed in it so hopefully it won't seek the FD and will boot straight off the Internal HD. If that be the case then and just put it in my EMAX Whose FDD is dead Now did EMU do something with their FDD's that made them proprietary? If so then finding after market FDD's using the manufacturers number off the FDD won't do me any good if Emu did something to them to make them proprietary after the fact at the factory Ted or Jammie your thoughts? Le sorcière des Oscillateurs mystère
On Feb 5, 2014, at 8:14 PM, <dwv1957@...> wrote: > The floppy drives from most EMU samplers will work in the Emax or EmaxII, the floppy in my EmaxSE is from an EMU E6400, and the one in my EmaxII is from an ESI32, the only thing you need to do is set a jumper on the drive for the sector size. I am pretty sure that drives from other manufacturers will also work. > > Dave > >
2014-02-06 by geektech207@...
2014-02-06 by Windrumscoggin
If that be the case then why hasn't someone in our EMax group simply said Hey peeps! XY or Z drive works Buy model number so and so Set DS to whatever by doing ABC And voila! There you are! As you you said in your post "the "heavy lifting" has been done already Quite frankly this shouldn't have to be All 'smoke and mirrors' and really, most of us are musicians first and not all that technically qualified to dig as deep as we have had to go just to get units that are only 28 years old functioning as they should. Case in point I have a 1962 Studebaker Lark automobile and I can find rotors, distributor parts, and brake shoes all day long still down at The auto parts store here where I live in California. Seriously, i am not pulling your leg. Aftermarket parts still available for a 51 year old car whose company went out of business in 1966! Technology changes it's protocol in less than five years and the stuff ten years old is damned near obsolete or redundant to the point that you can't even find functioning parts for it anymore. Why technology chose to go this 5 year planned obsolescence thing is beyond me but it's Rather frustrating actually. Le sorcière des Oscillateurs mystère
On Feb 5, 2014, at 10:39 PM, <geektech207@...> wrote: > The floppy drives aren't as proprietary as you think. Most of the views (problems) people have with these machines is that they're viewing them through the lens of modern day technology expectations. > > Coming from 2014 PC land, yeah, they're proprietary. Back then there was a standard set by Shugart which was the original floppy standard. Over time the PC market bastardized this standard, and that's why you/we/me tend to view these old drives as proprietary and difficult to work with. Not to say that Ensoniq and Emu drives didn't have some quirks, but they were usually just slight modifications of the Shugart standard. This happens with Amiga / Atari drives as well. > > So just because a modern PC drive has the same number of pins, a similar form factor, and looks like "well, that should work if I toss it in", doesn't make Emu drives all that non-standard. They weren't that oddball back in the early '80s. > > Technically, the biggest difference is that modern drives don't provide a RDY signal and are hard wired to be DS1 instead of DS0. Depending on the brand (Ensoniq, Amiga, Emu) there are differences like BUSY being on pin 4, or Diskchange signals, etc. > > If you're railing against the "replacement floppy drives are expensive" thing, then either you've got to go the slim floppy route Jammie, et al. talks about, the HxC route, or invest some time into understanding the differences between modern PC drives and the drive standards back in the vintage days and then find appropriate drives to mod yourself. Or you can just bite the bullet and buy one from Route66 or whomever. > > This stuff isn't insurmountable. Other people have already done most of the hard lifting, you've just got to look into it a little. > >
2014-02-06 by jammie
you need to add a jumper on pin 33and 34 or the e5000 will take a long time searching for the floppy drive before booting
----- Original Message -----
From: Windrumscoggin
To: emax@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 4:43 AM
Subject: Re: [emax] Regarding Floppy Drives
Very cool
So I can boot from my E5000 without the floppy installed? I have the optional hard drive installed in it so hopefully it won't seek the FD and will boot straight off the Internal HD. If that be the case then and just put it in my EMAX Whose FDD is dead
Now did EMU do something with their FDD's that made them proprietary? If so then finding after market FDD's using the manufacturers number off the FDD won't do me any good if Emu did something to them to make them proprietary after the fact at the factory
Ted or Jammie your thoughts?
Le sorcière des Oscillateurs mystère
On Feb 5, 2014, at 8:14 PM, <dwv1957@...> wrote:
The floppy drives from most EMU samplers will work in the Emax or EmaxII, the floppy in my EmaxSE is from an EMU E6400, and the one in my EmaxII is from an ESI32, the only thing you need to do is set a jumper on the drive for the sector size. I am pretty sure that drives from other manufacturers will also work.
Dave
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3684/7065 - Release Date: 02/05/142014-02-06 by jammie
because its better to fit a nos slim floppy drive as its cheaper and there new and the convertor board you have been told by me and ted about finding drive that have jumpers for all the signals but you want us to tell you x and y and z and i said do your home work yourself as we arte not here to hold your hand and show you everything i get paid to do these things as does ted we give our free time and help as much as we can but im sorry my life does not evolve around you you have had loads of help from me having to go over and over the same stuff until you got it as i say read the list all the information is there as what you want to know was talked about 5-10 years ago before the slim floppy was found
----- Original Message -----
From: Windrumscoggin
To: emax@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 6:54 AM
Subject: Re: [emax] Regarding Floppy Drives
If that be the case then why hasn't someone in our EMax group simply said
Hey peeps!
XY or Z drive works
Buy model number so and so
Set DS to whatever by doing ABC
And voila! There you are!
As you you said in your post "the "heavy lifting" has been done already
Quite frankly this shouldn't have to be
All 'smoke and mirrors' and really, most of us are musicians first and not all that technically qualified to dig as deep as we have had to go just to get units that are only 28 years old functioning as they should.
Case in point I have a 1962 Studebaker Lark automobile and I can find rotors, distributor parts, and brake shoes all day long still down at The auto parts store here where I live in California. Seriously, i am not pulling your leg. Aftermarket parts still available for a 51 year old car whose company went out of business in 1966!
Technology changes it's protocol in less than five years and the stuff ten years old is damned near obsolete or redundant to the point that you can't even find functioning parts for it anymore. Why technology chose to go this 5 year planned obsolescence thing is beyond me but it's
Rather frustrating actually.
Le sorcière des Oscillateurs mystère
On Feb 5, 2014, at 10:39 PM, <geektech207@...> wrote:
The floppy drives aren't as proprietary as you think. Most of the views (problems) people have with these machines is that they're viewing them through the lens of modern day technology expectations.
Coming from 2014 PC land, yeah, they're proprietary. Back then there was a standard set by Shugart which was the original floppy standard. Over time the PC market bastardized this standard, and that's why you/we/me tend to view these old drives as proprietary and difficult to work with. Not to say that Ensoniq and Emu drives didn't have some quirks, but they were usually just slight modifications of the Shugart standard. This happens with Amiga / Atari drives as well.
So just because a modern PC drive has the same number of pins, a similar form factor, and looks like "well, that should work if I toss it in", doesn't make Emu drives all that non-standard. They weren't that oddball back in the early '80s.
Technically, the biggest difference is that modern drives don't provide a RDY signal and are hard wired to be DS1 instead of DS0. Depending on the brand (Ensoniq, Amiga, Emu) there are differences like BUSY being on pin 4, or Diskchange signals, etc.
If you're railing against the "replacement floppy drives are expensive" thing, then either you've got to go the slim floppy route Jammie, et al. talks about, the HxC route, or invest some time into understanding the differences between modern PC drives and the drive standards back in the vintage days and then find appropriate drives to mod yourself. Or you can just bite the bullet and buy one from Route66 or whomever.
This stuff isn't insurmountable. Other people have already done most of the hard lifting, you've just got to look into it a little.
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3684/7065 - Release Date: 02/05/142014-02-06 by geektech207@...
2014-02-06 by windrumscoggin@...
Are you serious? I don't see how this drive issue is a major ordeal or am I missing something. I pick up used TEAC drives FD235HF all day long for 2$ Each at Weird Stuff Warehouse in Sunnyvale here in Northern California. Hell, Emu was up the road in Scott's Valley when in business. If we don't have the old drives used floating around here cheap in some used parts warehouse then I venture to say no one will; or the type of drive used/needed by Emu just ain't out there anymore and the ones that are are simply jacked up due to simple supply and demand.No supply /Big demand and if the demand is BIG then who else is/was using these drives in there systems that everyone felt they suddenly needed them and the supply dried up? I mean, how many of us are out there in the world right now, needing FDD's for Emax samplers? Maybe 250 of us worldwide max? It's not like the Emax is in every major studio in the world these days, right? Now let's get down to courtesy and attitude young man. Actually, as far as my own disposition it is something "personally" as you implied in your diatribe or you wouldn't be laying your disclaimer that it's not "personally" I don't know you at all but you are getting pretty damned disrespectful and this forum is not a place to start flaming others, it's a place to help. Your age is showing. I suggest you do your humble best to keep your comments supportive on how to solve problems of a technical nature rather than go off half cocked turn it into a personal opinion session on who you think does or does not do enough homework and research. You are not one to surmise and make that call. You don't know me . You need to remain productive positive helpful and If you can't do so then we will take the issue up with the moderator. As for me and my lack of motivation to which you elude well.... I have gotten my hands dirty so I don't know where you can surmise that I'm lazy or just want the 'easy work around' and have everything just "handed to me on a platter." I am an 47 YO HVAC tech for the US Federal Government -I get my hands dirty on HVAC contRols systems (Alerton Bactalk and IBEX) as well as variable frequency drives, everyday. Yet I don't jump on HVAC forums and start flaming others as lazy or unwilling because they have a question and don't understand some thing. That would make me a useless and arrogant ass now wouldn't it? No instead I try to offer solutions or if I don't have the answer refer the inquiry to those that will have answers as I'm an adult and don't 'talk down' to people when they have a question or a complaint about understanding how a system or component works Enough said. If you claim to know so much about the EMAX FDD protocols then just lay it out and stop with the posturing and chest beating concerning what you think those of us 'beneath' you should know about the Emax FDD I've busted my ass on this Emax. Tore the shit out of it cutting holes in the case to install DB-25 connectors and install a PCD 50B. Had to learn how to use EMXP after building an XP PC just to use EMXP. The issues are not with how I have had to figure out workarounds with my two emax units the issues surround the bullshit around the FDD system and how inconsistent it is and why it's a complete waste of money to buy a new old stock FDD for an Emax ( that may not even work) after eSynthesist himself said (and Omniflop software manual states also) there is NO guarantee that every FDD will write a Floppy that will load into your Emax..that it is trial and error. It isn't perfect as every FDD is a little different. This is coming from the guys that wrote the code and tested it out numerous times! Yet you blame it on user headspace and timing and lack of ones ability to do research Come on jack. That's a cop out and easy to pass off in user forum but not realty Maybe Ted got his to work, but I've yet to get any FDD installed in my PC (and I've swapped out three of them) to write a disk that can be read by my Emax SE 1000 It's why I ditched the damned floppy and don't use it any more. My other unit, the Emax HD, will only make disks that it can read and write but will not load any other disks made on my PC in EMXP cause the FDD heads are jacked up on the Emax. My Emax HD wouldn't load disks that Ted sent me either and he supposedly has a 'flawless' and perfect system that "works everytime" It's fact that the Emax FDD situation is a hit and miss waste of money unless you go with the Jammie Ted slim floppy but what's the point when there are other viable works arounds? And yeah, I'll throw a slim floppy in there, I don't care. Give me the part number for the drive, the DS jumper setting and I'll do it but quite frankly, I don't need to...I made SCSI zips work as well as the PCD so screw the floppy it's a useless unless you just have to run diagnostic disks And I'm never gonna troubleshot past what I've already done and if I have to load a diagnostic disk I'll pull the damned PC333 board out and ship it to someone like Ted and ask him if he can repair my issue because it's beyond my wishes and time for that matter, to troubleshoot ROM chips, IC 's or test diodes and resisters let alone hook the machine up to a frequency analyzer or oscilloscope. I just don't care about that. I do it all day on HVAC equipment I don't want to do it on my musical instruments unless absolutely necessary to make them work. Most of us want to make music with our Emax, not be forced to become Emu technicians. No one ever said that The 'synth Gods' required us to be EMU technicians simply to use a 25 year old synth. Sure we can try to fix certain things but if we get stuck this forum is so we can help, not arrogantly berate one another like children. And quite frankly Jay Leno owns many many classic automobiles yet he's not a mechanic and knows very little about restoring cars, he just loves driving them. Some of us are like that with old synths. No one said we had to know how to work on them to enjoy using them and it's unfair tO assume that they must and doubly unfair to assume that they must pay lots of money simply because someone says that their FDD is NLA or rare so therefore has to be expensive. If it must be then do what I did and find a cheaper workaround that is more reliable Just my two cents worth
> On Feb 5, 2014, at 11:42 PM, <geektech207@gmail.com> wrote: > > You seem to be under the impression that all everything should just fall into your lap with all this old stuff that you're picking up for pennies on the dollar. The company that manufactures it no longer supports it. Why makes you think you can get it for $20 at a flea market or take it out of a dumpster and then turn it on and not only have it work as beautifully as it did in 1985, but also have it compete with a modern sampler or synth like the Blofeld as far as usability, reliability, and features? > > Nothing personally really, I'm just trying to paint a more realistic picture for you and reset your expectations of what this old machine can do, and how much other people can do for you, especially if you're not willing to either A) do some research / invest your own time or B) invest some $$ in having someone else do it or C) pay even more $$$$ in getting a perfectly model some 25-35 years later and have someone maintain it. > > I assure you that no one is out to get you. There isn't some grand conspiracy to make old samplers as arcane and hush-hush as possible. It's just old gear, man. Automotive technology and electrical technology are simply different beasts. Apples to oranges. And replacement parts and help ARE still available for this gear. It just happens to cost some $, same as repairing an old auto. > > If you want an easy list of drives, I can tell you a couple models, but realize that they will cost you money as supplies are dwindling. They don't make them anymore. That's the thing. That's why there's no easy answer. The best answers have already been provided for you (slim floppy, HxC) out in the open. The other options are paying a lot of money for an OEM drive, paying a fair sum for an already modded new drive, paying a fair sum for a reliable semi-modern drive that can be easily adapted for use, or doing a whole lot of research on how to mod other drives on the cheap and boning up on surface mount soldering. > > Like most things, you can't have it cheap, fast, AND high quality. > > Decide on an approach that fits your willingness to invest either time, money, or both, and decide on how much it's worth to you to sound like Depeche Mode (or whatever your reasons for owning an Emax is), then pursue that option. People here can help you with any way you decide to go, but reality is reality, and whatever you do to get something this old to function properly is going to cost you in one way or another. > > Would you expect to pick up an "AS IS" Nord Lead 3 for $110 and expect a $5 / five-minute fix to restore it to its $2500 glory? Why do you expect that with gear that most people have abandoned to time? > >
2014-02-06 by windrumscoggin@...
Jammie Congratulations You're being an right wanker- ass. Refer to my post to geektech About being a wanker as well. If you can't offer simple solutions (Since you're supposed to be the so Called ex-Ensoniq tech expert') Without insults then there is no point In asking. And I don't care what you do for a living I bust ass doing HVAC controls everyday But don't lay it on you like you're supposed To bow down and pay homage to me If you ask me an air conditioning Question now would I? How the hell old are you Jammie? 16? When people ask simple questions In a courteous manner it's incumbent Upon you as an adult to offer to help Without being condescending or childish I'm 6'3" and weigh 245 lbs I can guarantee you wouldn't speak to Me like this to my face but hiding behind Your 'Blog' you have massive amounts of 'Internet courage' now don't you? With responses like this You've made this forum moot and the questions Pointless-especially I'd you are going to be Childish and condescending and can't give a straight Answer without blowing smoke up everyone's ass. Thefore, I will remove myself from the forum And stop asking the supposed 'experts' Because most (Save for Ted) are too immature Or 'put off' to be bothered To give straight answers and would Rather spin yarns rather than give straight dope. Lastly Jammie, you live in the UK correct? There is absolutely no reason you should Bastardized the Queens English as poorly as You do. I cannot understand half do what you write. Either take some grammar lessons Or check off the forum because your writing Skills are damned near incomprehensible and being You're English, there is absolutely no excuse.
> On Feb 5, 2014, at 11:38 PM, "jammie" <jammie.emma@...> wrote: > > > > because its better to fit a nos slim floppy drive as its cheaper and there new and the convertor board > > you have been told by me and ted about finding drive that have jumpers for all the signals > > but you want us to tell you x and y and z > > and i said do your home work yourself as we arte not here to hold your hand and show you everything > > i get paid to do these things as does ted we give our free time and help as much as we can but im sorry my life does not evolve around you > > you have had loads of help from me having to go over and over the same stuff until you got it > > as i say read the list all the information is there as what you want to know was talked about 5-10 years ago before the slim floppy was found > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Windrumscoggin > To: emax@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 6:54 AM > Subject: Re: [emax] Regarding Floppy Drives > > > If that be the case then why hasn't someone in our EMax group simply said > Hey peeps! > XY or Z drive works > Buy model number so and so > Set DS to whatever by doing ABC > And voila! There you are! > As you you said in your post "the "heavy lifting" has been done already > Quite frankly this shouldn't have to be > All 'smoke and mirrors' and really, most of us are musicians first and not all that technically qualified to dig as deep as we have had to go just to get units that are only 28 years old functioning as they should. > Case in point I have a 1962 Studebaker Lark automobile and I can find rotors, distributor parts, and brake shoes all day long still down at The auto parts store here where I live in California. Seriously, i am not pulling your leg. Aftermarket parts still available for a 51 year old car whose company went out of business in 1966! > Technology changes it's protocol in less than five years and the stuff ten years old is damned near obsolete or redundant to the point that you can't even find functioning parts for it anymore. Why technology chose to go this 5 year planned obsolescence thing is beyond me but it's > Rather frustrating actually. > > > > Le sorcière des Oscillateurs mystère > > On Feb 5, 2014, at 10:39 PM, <geektech207@...> wrote: > >> >> The floppy drives aren't as proprietary as you think. Most of the views (problems) people have with these machines is that they're viewing them through the lens of modern day technology expectations. >> >> Coming from 2014 PC land, yeah, they're proprietary. Back then there was a standard set by Shugart which was the original floppy standard. Over time the PC market bastardized this standard, and that's why you/we/me tend to view these old drives as proprietary and difficult to work with. Not to say that Ensoniq and Emu drives didn't have some quirks, but they were usually just slight modifications of the Shugart standard. This happens with Amiga / Atari drives as well. >> >> So just because a modern PC drive has the same number of pins, a similar form factor, and looks like "well, that should work if I toss it in", doesn't make Emu drives all that non-standard. They weren't that oddball back in the early '80s. >> >> Technically, the biggest difference is that modern drives don't provide a RDY signal and are hard wired to be DS1 instead of DS0. Depending on the brand (Ensoniq, Amiga, Emu) there are differences like BUSY being on pin 4, or Diskchange signals, etc. >> >> If you're railing against the "replacement floppy drives are expensive" thing, then either you've got to go the slim floppy route Jammie, et al. talks about, the HxC route, or invest some time into understanding the differences between modern PC drives and the drive standards back in the vintage days and then find appropriate drives to mod yourself. Or you can just bite the bullet and buy one from Route66 or whomever. >> >> This stuff isn't insurmountable. Other people have already done most of the hard lifting, you've just got to look into it a little. >> > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3684/7065 - Release Date: 02/05/14 > >
2014-02-06 by niklas.ehrlin@...
Would be sad to see you leave Windrum, even if I totally understand and agree that this is no place for patronizing and I would love to see the tone shapen up.
And research IS asking questions, no matter how "stupid" - and there is no one forcing anyone to answer. And those who do can have a lot of learning both in aswering and asking. And to me it seems that you (Windrum) have worked alot on your Emax and probably both have valuable info AND are willing to share.
Regards Niklas (Who found his latest Emax in the dumpster - and thereby disqualified him from asking "easy" questions..;))
2014-02-06 by geektech207@...
2014-02-06 by windrumscoggin@...
The exact question I had was 1) what legacy FDD's by part number, would work as 'drop in replacements' for an Emax? Did EMU ever have a Drive compatibility list that they put out so that we could search for those drive numbers today? If there are none other than what EMU sold at the factory then 2) What is the part number for the slim floppy, the part number for the Adapter and If it has a DS jumper setting, is it 1 or 0? Thanks Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 6, 2014, at 2:02 AM, <geektech207@...> wrote: > > I don't know what you're on about really. There was a discussion about if Emu floppy drives were proprietary and hard to source. I explained what the difference was and what the options are. > > I'm not the one who was particularly concerned with their lack of availability, their (non)usefulness, price, etc. I'm not up-at-arms about any of this. I am aware with the various investments of vintage sample ownership and I'm okay with that. It seems that not everyone is at peace with the expenditures needed to run equipment from this era. > > I said it wasn't personal because I was explaining a viewpoint that ran contrary to your worldview and I didn't want you to view it as a personal attack, but simply an explanation of why things are as they are. You seem to have faulty assumptions about supply and demand on legacy storage drives, and you seemed baffled by the availability, pricing, and compatibility of Emu storage options, so I did my best to explain it to you. Sorry if my corrections offended you, that wasn't my intent. > > I'm sorry you can't get floppies to work, but you're making mountains out of molehills. > > What is the exact question you need answered? If that was entirely clear then I would attempt to give you the simplest and most direct answer I have, although I am not the be-all-end-all expert. > >
2014-02-06 by jammie
well thankyou but im sorry no more help from me mods can we please have this person on moderation as he is being very abusive i have helped this community for years but its people like you that make me want to leave so here i go im of list thanks ted for the recomendations over the years but i cant just be insulted by this person because he does not agree with emu policies back in 1984 to 88 so please find your own solutions as i have been very helpfull to you on a load of ocasions and what has the way i right have todo with anything im a c++ programmer and writing this way is great for programming as you can see what you write clearly so thanks for the insults and good bye emax forums who needs you as i dont
----- Original Message -----
From: windrumscoggin@...
To: emax@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: [emax] Regarding Floppy Drives
Jammie
Congratulations
You're being an right wanker- ass.
Refer to my post to geektech
About being a wanker as well.
If you can't offer simple solutions
(Since you're supposed to be the so
Called ex-Ensoniq tech expert')
Without insults then there is no point
In asking.
And I don't care what you do for a living
I bust ass doing HVAC controls everyday
But don't lay it on you like you're supposed
To bow down and pay homage to me
If you ask me an air conditioning
Question now would I?
How the hell old are you Jammie?
16?
When people ask simple questions
In a courteous manner it's incumbent
Upon you as an adult to offer to help
Without being condescending or childish
I'm 6'3" and weigh 245 lbs
I can guarantee you wouldn't speak to
Me like this to my face but hiding behind
Your 'Blog' you have massive amounts of
'Internet courage' now don't you?
With responses like this
You've made this forum moot and the questions
Pointless-especially I'd you are going to be
Childish and condescending and can't give a straight
Answer without blowing smoke up everyone's ass.
Thefore, I will remove myself from the forum
And stop asking the supposed 'experts'
Because most (Save for Ted)
are too immature
Or 'put off' to be bothered
To give straight answers and would
Rather spin yarns rather than give
straight dope.
Lastly Jammie, you live in the UK correct?
There is absolutely no reason you should
Bastardized the Queens English as poorly as
You do. I cannot understand half do what you write.
Either take some grammar lessons
Or check off the forum because your writing
Skills are damned near incomprehensible and being
You're English, there is absolutely no excuse.
On Feb 5, 2014, at 11:38 PM, "jammie" <jammie.emma@...> wrote:
because its better to fit a nos slim floppy drive as its cheaper and there new and the convertor board
you have been told by me and ted about finding drive that have jumpers for all the signals
but you want us to tell you x and y and z
and i said do your home work yourself as we arte not here to hold your hand and show you everything
i get paid to do these things as does ted we give our free time and help as much as we can but im sorry my life does not evolve around you
you have had loads of help from me having to go over and over the same stuff until you got it
as i say read the list all the information is there as what you want to know was talked about 5-10 years ago before the slim floppy was found
----- Original Message -----
From: Windrumscoggin
To: emax@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 6:54 AM
Subject: Re: [emax] Regarding Floppy Drives
If that be the case then why hasn't someone in our EMax group simply said
Hey peeps!
XY or Z drive works
Buy model number so and so
Set DS to whatever by doing ABC
And voila! There you are!
As you you said in your post "the "heavy lifting" has been done already
Quite frankly this shouldn't have to be
All 'smoke and mirrors' and really, most of us are musicians first and not all that technically qualified to dig as deep as we have had to go just to get units that are only 28 years old functioning as they should.
Case in point I have a 1962 Studebaker Lark automobile and I can find rotors, distributor parts, and brake shoes all day long still down at The auto parts store here where I live in California. Seriously, i am not pulling your leg. Aftermarket parts still available for a 51 year old car whose company went out of business in 1966!
Technology changes it's protocol in less than five years and the stuff ten years old is damned near obsolete or redundant to the point that you can't even find functioning parts for it anymore. Why technology chose to go this 5 year planned obsolescence thing is beyond me but it's
Rather frustrating actually.
Le sorcière des Oscillateurs mystère
On Feb 5, 2014, at 10:39 PM, <geektech207@gmail.com> wrote:
The floppy drives aren't as proprietary as you think. Most of the views (problems) people have with these machines is that they're viewing them through the lens of modern day technology expectations.
Coming from 2014 PC land, yeah, they're proprietary. Back then there was a standard set by Shugart which was the original floppy standard. Over time the PC market bastardized this standard, and that's why you/we/me tend to view these old drives as proprietary and difficult to work with. Not to say that Ensoniq and Emu drives didn't have some quirks, but they were usually just slight modifications of the Shugart standard. This happens with Amiga / Atari drives as well.
So just because a modern PC drive has the same number of pins, a similar form factor, and looks like "well, that should work if I toss it in", doesn't make Emu drives all that non-standard. They weren't that oddball back in the early '80s.
Technically, the biggest difference is that modern drives don't provide a RDY signal and are hard wired to be DS1 instead of DS0. Depending on the brand (Ensoniq, Amiga, Emu) there are differences like BUSY being on pin 4, or Diskchange signals, etc.
If you're railing against the "replacement floppy drives are expensive" thing, then either you've got to go the slim floppy route Jammie, et al. talks about, the HxC route, or invest some time into understanding the differences between modern PC drives and the drive standards back in the vintage days and then find appropriate drives to mod yourself. Or you can just bite the bullet and buy one from Route66 or whomever.
This stuff isn't insurmountable. Other people have already done most of the hard lifting, you've just got to look into it a little.
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3684/7065 - Release Date: 02/05/14
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3684/7067 - Release Date: 02/06/142014-02-06 by windrumscoggin@...
I also have no problems with the expenditures to run this equipment To me, I will spend up to 500$ to get any of my Emax functional Again If it breaks or goes down for the count. So far I've been Lucky with mine but there could come a day where I will need to Source spares and the technical expertise of guys like Ted to keep Mine running And NO, I have none of the DM sample disks. nor do I own my Emax's To mimic or Sound like them. I own them cause they were made in my home State, California just like my Dave Smith Instruments and Oberheim OB-8 and DMX were. Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 6, 2014, at 2:02 AM, <geektech207@...> wrote: > > I don't know what you're on about really. There was a discussion about if Emu floppy drives were proprietary and hard to source. I explained what the difference was and what the options are. > > I'm not the one who was particularly concerned with their lack of availability, their (non)usefulness, price, etc. I'm not up-at-arms about any of this. I am aware with the various investments of vintage sample ownership and I'm okay with that. It seems that not everyone is at peace with the expenditures needed to run equipment from this era. > > I said it wasn't personal because I was explaining a viewpoint that ran contrary to your worldview and I didn't want you to view it as a personal attack, but simply an explanation of why things are as they are. You seem to have faulty assumptions about supply and demand on legacy storage drives, and you seemed baffled by the availability, pricing, and compatibility of Emu storage options, so I did my best to explain it to you. Sorry if my corrections offended you, that wasn't my intent. > > I'm sorry you can't get floppies to work, but you're making mountains out of molehills. > > What is the exact question you need answered? If that was entirely clear then I would attempt to give you the simplest and most direct answer I have, although I am not the be-all-end-all expert. > >
2014-02-06 by niklas.ehrlin@...
Would be very sad if Windrum decided to leave, although I understand and totally agree with him regarding the patronizing tone. Very unnecessary.
Part of the research IS asking questions - and there are NO obligation in answering if you find the question silly.
/Niklas (who was the one who found his Emax in the dumpster and in some way disqualified me on asking "easy" questions... )
2014-02-06 by Windrumscoggin
I'll answer any questions you have that I can help with Nicklas, but certainly won't entertain any more of Hammies condescending byllshit, nor do I care if he answers any more questions he's already shown the content of his character🙈.
On Feb 6, 2014, at 2:20, <niklas.ehrlin@...m> wrote: > Would be very sad if Windrum decided to leave, although I understand and totally agree with him regarding the patronizing tone. Very unnecessary. > > Part of the research IS asking questions - and there are NO obligation in answering if you find the question silly. > > > > /Niklas (who was the one who found his Emax in the dumpster and in some way disqualified me on asking "easy" questions... ) > >
2014-02-06 by Matt
Come on everybody stop fighting
we're all here because we love old samplers so let's come together based on this. There9;s already enough bs in the world.
no body needs to leave the list.
Windrum no one thinks your stupid.
jammie is always very helpful he just writes like a programmer.
Everybody chill out.
I wish there were people as smart as u guys in the sp-808 group.
You're all valuable to the community and you all have huge penis bigger than everyone elses. no need for fighting.
-matt
Would be very sad if Windrum decided to leave, although I understand and totally agree with him regarding the patronizing tone. Very unnecessary.
Part of the research IS asking questions - and there are NO obligation in answering if you find the question silly.
/Niklas (who was the one who found his Emax in the dumpster and in some way disqualified me on asking "easy" questions... )
2014-02-06 by niklas.ehrlin@...
I also have a huge penis - only its not working.
Probably a faulty FDD. ;)
2014-02-06 by Windrumscoggin
You're a nut case, Jammie. Really, you're gonna cry to the moderator cause you got a tongue lashing after giving one? You insult people then when they Call you on it you act offended and Shocked that it got lumped back in Your lap...come on.. You get what you give. I didn't start this mess. I just had questions. I have thanked you and Ted numerous times for your input and knowledgeable contributions but in the last few emails you went way past the line unnecessarily. Own up to it apologize and move on like a man. I will extend my hand in apology, if you are mature enough to do the same but if you can't then it just shows your character and i do want to believe you have more character than what you've shown us here earlier today so what'daya say? Lets call a truce and get back to Emax problems Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 6, 2014, at 2:20, "jammie" <jammie.emma@...> wrote: > > > well thankyou but im sorry no more help from me > > mods can we please have this person on moderation as he is being very abusive > > i have helped this community for years but its people like you that make me want to leave so here i go > > im of list > > thanks ted for the recomendations over the years but > > i cant just be insulted by this person because he does not agree with emu policies back in 1984 to 88 > > so please find your own solutions as i have been very helpfull to you on a load of ocasions > > and what has the way i right have todo with anything > > im a c++ programmer and writing this way is great for programming as you can see what you write clearly > > so thanks for the insults and good bye emax forums who needs you as i dont > ----- Original Message ----- > From: windrumscoggin@... > To: emax@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 9:33 AM > Subject: Re: [emax] Regarding Floppy Drives > > > Jammie > Congratulations > You're being an right wanker- ass. > Refer to my post to geektech > About being a wanker as well. > If you can't offer simple solutions > (Since you're supposed to be the so > Called ex-Ensoniq tech expert') > Without insults then there is no point > In asking. > And I don't care what you do for a living > I bust ass doing HVAC controls everyday > But don't lay it on you like you're supposed > To bow down and pay homage to me > If you ask me an air conditioning > Question now would I? > How the hell old are you Jammie? > 16? > When people ask simple questions > In a courteous manner it's incumbent > Upon you as an adult to offer to help > Without being condescending or childish > I'm 6'3" and weigh 245 lbs > I can guarantee you wouldn't speak to > Me like this to my face but hiding behind > Your 'Blog' you have massive amounts of > 'Internet courage' now don't you? > With responses like this > You've made this forum moot and the questions > Pointless-especially I'd you are going to be > Childish and condescending and can't give a straight > Answer without blowing smoke up everyone's ass. > > Thefore, I will remove myself from the forum > And stop asking the supposed 'experts' > Because most (Save for Ted) > are too immature > Or 'put off' to be bothered > To give straight answers and would > Rather spin yarns rather than give > straight dope. > Lastly Jammie, you live in the UK correct? > There is absolutely no reason you should > Bastardized the Queens English as poorly as > You do. I cannot understand half do what you write. > Either take some grammar lessons > Or check off the forum because your writing > Skills are damned near incomprehensible and being > You're English, there is absolutely no excuse. > > > > On Feb 5, 2014, at 11:38 PM, "jammie" <jammie.emma@...> wrote: > >> >> >> >> because its better to fit a nos slim floppy drive as its cheaper and there new and the convertor board >> >> you have been told by me and ted about finding drive that have jumpers for all the signals >> >> but you want us to tell you x and y and z >> >> and i said do your home work yourself as we arte not here to hold your hand and show you everything >> >> i get paid to do these things as does ted we give our free time and help as much as we can but im sorry my life does not evolve around you >> >> you have had loads of help from me having to go over and over the same stuff until you got it >> >> as i say read the list all the information is there as what you want to know was talked about 5-10 years ago before the slim floppy was found >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Windrumscoggin >> To: emax@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 6:54 AM >> Subject: Re: [emax] Regarding Floppy Drives >> >> >> If that be the case then why hasn't someone in our EMax group simply said >> Hey peeps! >> XY or Z drive works >> Buy model number so and so >> Set DS to whatever by doing ABC >> And voila! There you are! >> As you you said in your post "the "heavy lifting" has been done already >> Quite frankly this shouldn't have to be >> All 'smoke and mirrors' and really, most of us are musicians first and not all that technically qualified to dig as deep as we have had to go just to get units that are only 28 years old functioning as they should. >> Case in point I have a 1962 Studebaker Lark automobile and I can find rotors, distributor parts, and brake shoes all day long still down at The auto parts store here where I live in California. Seriously, i am not pulling your leg. Aftermarket parts still available for a 51 year old car whose company went out of business in 1966! >> Technology changes it's protocol in less than five years and the stuff ten years old is damned near obsolete or redundant to the point that you can't even find functioning parts for it anymore. Why technology chose to go this 5 year planned obsolescence thing is beyond me but it's >> Rather frustrating actually. >> >> >> >> Le sorcière des Oscillateurs mystère >> >> On Feb 5, 2014, at 10:39 PM, <geektech207@...> wrote: >> >>> >>> The floppy drives aren't as proprietary as you think. Most of the views (problems) people have with these machines is that they're viewing them through the lens of modern day technology expectations. >>> >>> Coming from 2014 PC land, yeah, they're proprietary. Back then there was a standard set by Shugart which was the original floppy standard. Over time the PC market bastardized this standard, and that's why you/we/me tend to view these old drives as proprietary and difficult to work with. Not to say that Ensoniq and Emu drives didn't have some quirks, but they were usually just slight modifications of the Shugart standard. This happens with Amiga / Atari drives as well. >>> >>> So just because a modern PC drive has the same number of pins, a similar form factor, and looks like "well, that should work if I toss it in", doesn't make Emu drives all that non-standard. They weren't that oddball back in the early '80s. >>> >>> Technically, the biggest difference is that modern drives don't provide a RDY signal and are hard wired to be DS1 instead of DS0. Depending on the brand (Ensoniq, Amiga, Emu) there are differences like BUSY being on pin 4, or Diskchange signals, etc. >>> >>> If you're railing against the "replacement floppy drives are expensive" thing, then either you've got to go the slim floppy route Jammie, et al. talks about, the HxC route, or invest some time into understanding the differences between modern PC drives and the drive standards back in the vintage days and then find appropriate drives to mod yourself. Or you can just bite the bullet and buy one from Route66 or whomever. >>> >>> This stuff isn't insurmountable. Other people have already done most of the hard lifting, you've just got to look into it a little. >>> >> >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3684/7065 - Release Date: 02/05/14 >> > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3684/7067 - Release Date: 02/06/14 > >
2014-02-06 by Windrumscoggin
We don't want you to leave Jammie We want you to behave nicely Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 6, 2014, at 2:20, "jammie" <jammie.emma@...> wrote: > > > well thankyou but im sorry no more help from me > > mods can we please have this person on moderation as he is being very abusive > > i have helped this community for years but its people like you that make me want to leave so here i go > > im of list > > thanks ted for the recomendations over the years but > > i cant just be insulted by this person because he does not agree with emu policies back in 1984 to 88 > > so please find your own solutions as i have been very helpfull to you on a load of ocasions > > and what has the way i right have todo with anything > > im a c++ programmer and writing this way is great for programming as you can see what you write clearly > > so thanks for the insults and good bye emax forums who needs you as i dont > ----- Original Message ----- > From: windrumscoggin@... > To: emax@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 9:33 AM > Subject: Re: [emax] Regarding Floppy Drives > > > Jammie > Congratulations > You're being an right wanker- ass. > Refer to my post to geektech > About being a wanker as well. > If you can't offer simple solutions > (Since you're supposed to be the so > Called ex-Ensoniq tech expert') > Without insults then there is no point > In asking. > And I don't care what you do for a living > I bust ass doing HVAC controls everyday > But don't lay it on you like you're supposed > To bow down and pay homage to me > If you ask me an air conditioning > Question now would I? > How the hell old are you Jammie? > 16? > When people ask simple questions > In a courteous manner it's incumbent > Upon you as an adult to offer to help > Without being condescending or childish > I'm 6'3" and weigh 245 lbs > I can guarantee you wouldn't speak to > Me like this to my face but hiding behind > Your 'Blog' you have massive amounts of > 'Internet courage' now don't you? > With responses like this > You've made this forum moot and the questions > Pointless-especially I'd you are going to be > Childish and condescending and can't give a straight > Answer without blowing smoke up everyone's ass. > > Thefore, I will remove myself from the forum > And stop asking the supposed 'experts' > Because most (Save for Ted) > are too immature > Or 'put off' to be bothered > To give straight answers and would > Rather spin yarns rather than give > straight dope. > Lastly Jammie, you live in the UK correct? > There is absolutely no reason you should > Bastardized the Queens English as poorly as > You do. I cannot understand half do what you write. > Either take some grammar lessons > Or check off the forum because your writing > Skills are damned near incomprehensible and being > You're English, there is absolutely no excuse. > > > > On Feb 5, 2014, at 11:38 PM, "jammie" <jammie.emma@...> wrote: > >> >> >> >> because its better to fit a nos slim floppy drive as its cheaper and there new and the convertor board >> >> you have been told by me and ted about finding drive that have jumpers for all the signals >> >> but you want us to tell you x and y and z >> >> and i said do your home work yourself as we arte not here to hold your hand and show you everything >> >> i get paid to do these things as does ted we give our free time and help as much as we can but im sorry my life does not evolve around you >> >> you have had loads of help from me having to go over and over the same stuff until you got it >> >> as i say read the list all the information is there as what you want to know was talked about 5-10 years ago before the slim floppy was found >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Windrumscoggin >> To: emax@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 6:54 AM >> Subject: Re: [emax] Regarding Floppy Drives >> >> >> If that be the case then why hasn't someone in our EMax group simply said >> Hey peeps! >> XY or Z drive works >> Buy model number so and so >> Set DS to whatever by doing ABC >> And voila! There you are! >> As you you said in your post "the "heavy lifting" has been done already >> Quite frankly this shouldn't have to be >> All 'smoke and mirrors' and really, most of us are musicians first and not all that technically qualified to dig as deep as we have had to go just to get units that are only 28 years old functioning as they should. >> Case in point I have a 1962 Studebaker Lark automobile and I can find rotors, distributor parts, and brake shoes all day long still down at The auto parts store here where I live in California. Seriously, i am not pulling your leg. Aftermarket parts still available for a 51 year old car whose company went out of business in 1966! >> Technology changes it's protocol in less than five years and the stuff ten years old is damned near obsolete or redundant to the point that you can't even find functioning parts for it anymore. Why technology chose to go this 5 year planned obsolescence thing is beyond me but it's >> Rather frustrating actually. >> >> >> >> Le sorcière des Oscillateurs mystère >> >> On Feb 5, 2014, at 10:39 PM, <geektech207@...> wrote: >> >>> >>> The floppy drives aren't as proprietary as you think. Most of the views (problems) people have with these machines is that they're viewing them through the lens of modern day technology expectations. >>> >>> Coming from 2014 PC land, yeah, they're proprietary. Back then there was a standard set by Shugart which was the original floppy standard. Over time the PC market bastardized this standard, and that's why you/we/me tend to view these old drives as proprietary and difficult to work with. Not to say that Ensoniq and Emu drives didn't have some quirks, but they were usually just slight modifications of the Shugart standard. This happens with Amiga / Atari drives as well. >>> >>> So just because a modern PC drive has the same number of pins, a similar form factor, and looks like "well, that should work if I toss it in", doesn't make Emu drives all that non-standard. They weren't that oddball back in the early '80s. >>> >>> Technically, the biggest difference is that modern drives don't provide a RDY signal and are hard wired to be DS1 instead of DS0. Depending on the brand (Ensoniq, Amiga, Emu) there are differences like BUSY being on pin 4, or Diskchange signals, etc. >>> >>> If you're railing against the "replacement floppy drives are expensive" thing, then either you've got to go the slim floppy route Jammie, et al. talks about, the HxC route, or invest some time into understanding the differences between modern PC drives and the drive standards back in the vintage days and then find appropriate drives to mod yourself. Or you can just bite the bullet and buy one from Route66 or whomever. >>> >>> This stuff isn't insurmountable. Other people have already done most of the hard lifting, you've just got to look into it a little. >>> >> >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3684/7065 - Release Date: 02/05/14 >> > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3684/7067 - Release Date: 02/06/14 > >
2014-02-06 by Windrumscoggin
PS Jammie I'm sorry I insulted your writing style That was a low blow and unfair of me . Now I feel bad. I hope I didn't hurt your feelings Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 6, 2014, at 2:20, "jammie" <jammie.emma@...> wrote: > > > well thankyou but im sorry no more help from me > > mods can we please have this person on moderation as he is being very abusive > > i have helped this community for years but its people like you that make me want to leave so here i go > > im of list > > thanks ted for the recomendations over the years but > > i cant just be insulted by this person because he does not agree with emu policies back in 1984 to 88 > > so please find your own solutions as i have been very helpfull to you on a load of ocasions > > and what has the way i right have todo with anything > > im a c++ programmer and writing this way is great for programming as you can see what you write clearly > > so thanks for the insults and good bye emax forums who needs you as i dont > ----- Original Message ----- > From: windrumscoggin@... > To: emax@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 9:33 AM > Subject: Re: [emax] Regarding Floppy Drives > > > Jammie > Congratulations > You're being an right wanker- ass. > Refer to my post to geektech > About being a wanker as well. > If you can't offer simple solutions > (Since you're supposed to be the so > Called ex-Ensoniq tech expert') > Without insults then there is no point > In asking. > And I don't care what you do for a living > I bust ass doing HVAC controls everyday > But don't lay it on you like you're supposed > To bow down and pay homage to me > If you ask me an air conditioning > Question now would I? > How the hell old are you Jammie? > 16? > When people ask simple questions > In a courteous manner it's incumbent > Upon you as an adult to offer to help > Without being condescending or childish > I'm 6'3" and weigh 245 lbs > I can guarantee you wouldn't speak to > Me like this to my face but hiding behind > Your 'Blog' you have massive amounts of > 'Internet courage' now don't you? > With responses like this > You've made this forum moot and the questions > Pointless-especially I'd you are going to be > Childish and condescending and can't give a straight > Answer without blowing smoke up everyone's ass. > > Thefore, I will remove myself from the forum > And stop asking the supposed 'experts' > Because most (Save for Ted) > are too immature > Or 'put off' to be bothered > To give straight answers and would > Rather spin yarns rather than give > straight dope. > Lastly Jammie, you live in the UK correct? > There is absolutely no reason you should > Bastardized the Queens English as poorly as > You do. I cannot understand half do what you write. > Either take some grammar lessons > Or check off the forum because your writing > Skills are damned near incomprehensible and being > You're English, there is absolutely no excuse. > > > > On Feb 5, 2014, at 11:38 PM, "jammie" <jammie.emma@...> wrote: > >> >> >> >> because its better to fit a nos slim floppy drive as its cheaper and there new and the convertor board >> >> you have been told by me and ted about finding drive that have jumpers for all the signals >> >> but you want us to tell you x and y and z >> >> and i said do your home work yourself as we arte not here to hold your hand and show you everything >> >> i get paid to do these things as does ted we give our free time and help as much as we can but im sorry my life does not evolve around you >> >> you have had loads of help from me having to go over and over the same stuff until you got it >> >> as i say read the list all the information is there as what you want to know was talked about 5-10 years ago before the slim floppy was found >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Windrumscoggin >> To: emax@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 6:54 AM >> Subject: Re: [emax] Regarding Floppy Drives >> >> >> If that be the case then why hasn't someone in our EMax group simply said >> Hey peeps! >> XY or Z drive works >> Buy model number so and so >> Set DS to whatever by doing ABC >> And voila! There you are! >> As you you said in your post "the "heavy lifting" has been done already >> Quite frankly this shouldn't have to be >> All 'smoke and mirrors' and really, most of us are musicians first and not all that technically qualified to dig as deep as we have had to go just to get units that are only 28 years old functioning as they should. >> Case in point I have a 1962 Studebaker Lark automobile and I can find rotors, distributor parts, and brake shoes all day long still down at The auto parts store here where I live in California. Seriously, i am not pulling your leg. Aftermarket parts still available for a 51 year old car whose company went out of business in 1966! >> Technology changes it's protocol in less than five years and the stuff ten years old is damned near obsolete or redundant to the point that you can't even find functioning parts for it anymore. Why technology chose to go this 5 year planned obsolescence thing is beyond me but it's >> Rather frustrating actually. >> >> >> >> Le sorcière des Oscillateurs mystère >> >> On Feb 5, 2014, at 10:39 PM, <geektech207@...> wrote: >> >>> >>> The floppy drives aren't as proprietary as you think. Most of the views (problems) people have with these machines is that they're viewing them through the lens of modern day technology expectations. >>> >>> Coming from 2014 PC land, yeah, they're proprietary. Back then there was a standard set by Shugart which was the original floppy standard. Over time the PC market bastardized this standard, and that's why you/we/me tend to view these old drives as proprietary and difficult to work with. Not to say that Ensoniq and Emu drives didn't have some quirks, but they were usually just slight modifications of the Shugart standard. This happens with Amiga / Atari drives as well. >>> >>> So just because a modern PC drive has the same number of pins, a similar form factor, and looks like "well, that should work if I toss it in", doesn't make Emu drives all that non-standard. They weren't that oddball back in the early '80s. >>> >>> Technically, the biggest difference is that modern drives don't provide a RDY signal and are hard wired to be DS1 instead of DS0. Depending on the brand (Ensoniq, Amiga, Emu) there are differences like BUSY being on pin 4, or Diskchange signals, etc. >>> >>> If you're railing against the "replacement floppy drives are expensive" thing, then either you've got to go the slim floppy route Jammie, et al. talks about, the HxC route, or invest some time into understanding the differences between modern PC drives and the drive standards back in the vintage days and then find appropriate drives to mod yourself. Or you can just bite the bullet and buy one from Route66 or whomever. >>> >>> This stuff isn't insurmountable. Other people have already done most of the hard lifting, you've just got to look into it a little. >>> >> >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3684/7065 - Release Date: 02/05/14 >> > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3684/7067 - Release Date: 02/06/14 > >
2014-02-06 by Windrumscoggin
😻👍 :) Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 6, 2014, at 2:36, <niklas.ehrlin@...> wrote: > I also have a huge penis - only its not working. > > Probably a faulty FDD. ;) > >
2014-02-06 by geektech207@...
2014-02-06 by geektech207@...
2014-02-06 by Wind O'Neal
Jammie, thanks for all your help over the years. While I don't contribute to this forum I do read it. And I always check the resources and if needed, the experts. I hope you will disregard any comments that aren't helpful to you! Sincerely, Wind (an Emax and Emax II USER from the first batch)
On Feb 6, 2014, at 5:20 AM, jammie <jammie.emma@...> wrote: > > > well thankyou but im sorry no more help from me > > mods can we please have this person on moderation as he is being very abusive > > i have helped this community for years but its people like you that make me want to leave so here i go > > im of list > > thanks ted for the recomendations over the years but > > i cant just be insulted by this person because he does not agree with emu policies back in 1984 to 88 > > so please find your own solutions as i have been very helpfull to you on a load of ocasions > > and what has the way i right have todo with anything > > im a c++ programmer and writing this way is great for programming as you can see what you write clearly > > so thanks for the insults and good bye emax forums who needs you as i dont > ----- Original Message ----- > From: windrumscoggin@... > To: emax@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 9:33 AM > Subject: Re: [emax] Regarding Floppy Drives > > > > Jammie > Congratulations > You're being an right wanker- ass. > Refer to my post to geektech > About being a wanker as well. > If you can't offer simple solutions > (Since you're supposed to be the so > Called ex-Ensoniq tech expert') > Without insults then there is no point > In asking. > And I don't care what you do for a living > I bust ass doing HVAC controls everyday > But don't lay it on you like you're supposed > To bow down and pay homage to me > If you ask me an air conditioning > Question now would I? > How the hell old are you Jammie? > 16? > When people ask simple questions > In a courteous manner it's incumbent > Upon you as an adult to offer to help > Without being condescending or childish > I'm 6'3" and weigh 245 lbs > I can guarantee you wouldn't speak to > Me like this to my face but hiding behind > Your 'Blog' you have massive amounts of > 'Internet courage' now don't you? > With responses like this > You've made this forum moot and the questions > Pointless-especially I'd you are going to be > Childish and condescending and can't give a straight > Answer without blowing smoke up everyone's ass. > > Thefore, I will remove myself from the forum > And stop asking the supposed 'experts' > Because most (Save for Ted) > are too immature > Or 'put off' to be bothered > To give straight answers and would > Rather spin yarns rather than give > straight dope. > Lastly Jammie, you live in the UK correct? > There is absolutely no reason you should > Bastardized the Queens English as poorly as > You do. I cannot understand half do what you write. > Either take some grammar lessons > Or check off the forum because your writing > Skills are damned near incomprehensible and being > You're English, there is absolutely no excuse. > > > > On Feb 5, 2014, at 11:38 PM, "jammie" <jammie.emma@...> wrote: > >> >> >> >> because its better to fit a nos slim floppy drive as its cheaper and there new and the convertor board >> >> you have been told by me and ted about finding drive that have jumpers for all the signals >> >> but you want us to tell you x and y and z >> >> and i said do your home work yourself as we arte not here to hold your hand and show you everything >> >> i get paid to do these things as does ted we give our free time and help as much as we can but im sorry my life does not evolve around you >> >> you have had loads of help from me having to go over and over the same stuff until you got it >> >> as i say read the list all the information is there as what you want to know was talked about 5-10 years ago before the slim floppy was found >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Windrumscoggin >> To: emax@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 6:54 AM >> Subject: Re: [emax] Regarding Floppy Drives >> >> >> >> If that be the case then why hasn't someone in our EMax group simply said >> Hey peeps! >> XY or Z drive works >> Buy model number so and so >> Set DS to whatever by doing ABC >> And voila! There you are! >> As you you said in your post "the "heavy lifting" has been done already >> Quite frankly this shouldn't have to be >> All 'smoke and mirrors' and really, most of us are musicians first and not all that technically qualified to dig as deep as we have had to go just to get units that are only 28 years old functioning as they should. >> Case in point I have a 1962 Studebaker Lark automobile and I can find rotors, distributor parts, and brake shoes all day long still down at The auto parts store here where I live in California. Seriously, i am not pulling your leg. Aftermarket parts still available for a 51 year old car whose company went out of business in 1966! >> Technology changes it's protocol in less than five years and the stuff ten years old is damned near obsolete or redundant to the point that you can't even find functioning parts for it anymore. Why technology chose to go this 5 year planned obsolescence thing is beyond me but it's >> Rather frustrating actually. >> >> >> >> Le sorcière des Oscillateurs mystère >> >> On Feb 5, 2014, at 10:39 PM, <geektech207@...> wrote: >> >>> >>> The floppy drives aren't as proprietary as you think. Most of the views (problems) people have with these machines is that they're viewing them through the lens of modern day technology expectations. >>> >>> Coming from 2014 PC land, yeah, they're proprietary. Back then there was a standard set by Shugart which was the original floppy standard. Over time the PC market bastardized this standard, and that's why you/we/me tend to view these old drives as proprietary and difficult to work with. Not to say that Ensoniq and Emu drives didn't have some quirks, but they were usually just slight modifications of the Shugart standard. This happens with Amiga / Atari drives as well. >>> >>> So just because a modern PC drive has the same number of pins, a similar form factor, and looks like "well, that should work if I toss it in", doesn't make Emu drives all that non-standard. They weren't that oddball back in the early '80s. >>> >>> Technically, the biggest difference is that modern drives don't provide a RDY signal and are hard wired to be DS1 instead of DS0. Depending on the brand (Ensoniq, Amiga, Emu) there are differences like BUSY being on pin 4, or Diskchange signals, etc. >>> >>> If you're railing against the "replacement floppy drives are expensive" thing, then either you've got to go the slim floppy route Jammie, et al. talks about, the HxC route, or invest some time into understanding the differences between modern PC drives and the drive standards back in the vintage days and then find appropriate drives to mod yourself. Or you can just bite the bullet and buy one from Route66 or whomever. >>> >>> This stuff isn't insurmountable. Other people have already done most of the hard lifting, you've just got to look into it a little. >>> >> >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3684/7065 - Release Date: 02/05/14 >> >> > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3684/7067 - Release Date: 02/06/14 > > >
2014-02-06 by Windrumscoggin
Thanks for the part numbers I have loads of the TEAC 235HF Lying around here and can get Them for minuscule prices At weired stuff✌ they roll in every day If you could tell a novice computer Geek like myself what i would Have to do to make it work I'd be all over trying to accomplish The work and mod them. If I could mod them to work with Emax I'd give em away to those that needed them once working . Those that I have Have the DS jumper settings as well Not too concerned with form factor Being I've torn my chassis up already Installing the PCD anyway. As far as Jammie listing part numbers to slim floppies I do t recall her (her? I thought it was a him, sorry) ever listing them but have heard her state she 'does this for a living etc etc' and is reticent in giving up any technical details and part numbers because she felt those of we DIY types might not pay her or Ted for there mods. Now granted I'm all for paying for Someone for their mod work, especially if they did a lot of research on their own and worked hard to obtain the information and have NO day job to support their income then yes, I can understand in wanting to keep information to ones own special mods proprietary. But so far no one save for Jammie and Route 66 have made reference to them doing this for a living and if I remember correctly this is a forum to which we are supposed to work together to share technical information, not berate each others intelligence or know how when some of us ask technical questions and others don't want to give up the Information because they think it might take a few coins out if their pockets. So not to tangent but again to make a point I digress: I've been driving Studebakers since high school here in California and have cross referenced part numbers and made lists so that people could go down to the local parts store and pick up a rotor or brake shoe or a universal joint etc. It took me years to figure out what would work.because I turned wrench on them everyday and used the old books and crossed them to the new books until they were obsolete. When I was done, I gave the cross ref list to the folks in the drivers clubs so they too could have this information. Why give it away rather than sell it ? Cause its a hobby, and as a tech wrench in that hobby and dealing with rare and obscure cars (and synthesizers!) I am here to help keep really cool old cars and synths functional and to me helping others achieve that's enough payback in the world. I have a day job and I don't need to charge people for information and figure the gesture will somehow come back to me like your just giving all those parts numbers did. Thanks Greg Sent from my iPhone On Feb 6, 2014, at 2:45, <geektech207@...> wrote: > TEAC FD235HF series (of which there are MANY different versions). But the 235HF series varies widely and STILL requires specific settings to work, so is not a "drop-in" replacement, per se.
2014-02-06 by Windrumscoggin
Jammie's just peeved because he thought he could hijack the forum and start insulting people who are here to learn and offer help themselves...and when called on it jammie scurried away into the corner and cried like a baby. I offered an apology on my part, like an adult would, but so far the initiator of all this, who started the argumentative process by calling me names, saying the "world isn't here to 'revolve around" me' (when all I was trying to do was glean information on drives), has yet to be adult and apologize themselves Such is the content oIf people's character in this day and age. Adults acting like children Pretty sad. I Iffered an apology to Jammie after he started the insults and berating and so far silence firm Jammie Go figure Folks you need to understand that if you want to start dishing it out you gotta be able to take it too Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 6, 2014, at 5:04, Wind O'Neal <sanctifiedone@...> wrote: > Jammie, thanks for all your help over the years. While I don't contribute to this forum I do read it. And I always check the resources and if needed, the experts. I hope you will disregard any comments that aren't helpful to you! Sincerely, Wind (an Emax and Emax II USER from the first batch) > > > > > On Feb 6, 2014, at 5:20 AM, jammie <jammie.emma@...> wrote: > >> >> >> >> well thankyou but im sorry no more help from me >> >> mods can we please have this person on moderation as he is being very abusive >> >> i have helped this community for years but its people like you that make me want to leave so here i go >> >> im of list >> >> thanks ted for the recomendations over the years but >> >> i cant just be insulted by this person because he does not agree with emu policies back in 1984 to 88 >> >> so please find your own solutions as i have been very helpfull to you on a load of ocasions >> >> and what has the way i right have todo with anything >> >> im a c++ programmer and writing this way is great for programming as you can see what you write clearly >> >> so thanks for the insults and good bye emax forums who needs you as i dont >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: windrumscoggin@... >> To: emax@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 9:33 AM >> Subject: Re: [emax] Regarding Floppy Drives >> >> >> >> Jammie >> Congratulations >> You're being an right wanker- ass. >> Refer to my post to geektech >> About being a wanker as well. >> If you can't offer simple solutions >> (Since you're supposed to be the so >> Called ex-Ensoniq tech expert') >> Without insults then there is no point >> In asking. >> And I don't care what you do for a living >> I bust ass doing HVAC controls everyday >> But don't lay it on you like you're supposed >> To bow down and pay homage to me >> If you ask me an air conditioning >> Question now would I? >> How the hell old are you Jammie? >> 16? >> When people ask simple questions >> In a courteous manner it's incumbent >> Upon you as an adult to offer to help >> Without being condescending or childish >> I'm 6'3" and weigh 245 lbs >> I can guarantee you wouldn't speak to >> Me like this to my face but hiding behind >> Your 'Blog' you have massive amounts of >> 'Internet courage' now don't you? >> With responses like this >> You've made this forum moot and the questions >> Pointless-especially I'd you are going to be >> Childish and condescending and can't give a straight >> Answer without blowing smoke up everyone's ass. >> >> Thefore, I will remove myself from the forum >> And stop asking the supposed 'experts' >> Because most (Save for Ted) >> are too immature >> Or 'put off' to be bothered >> To give straight answers and would >> Rather spin yarns rather than give >> straight dope. >> Lastly Jammie, you live in the UK correct? >> There is absolutely no reason you should >> Bastardized the Queens English as poorly as >> You do. I cannot understand half do what you write. >> Either take some grammar lessons >> Or check off the forum because your writing >> Skills are damned near incomprehensible and being >> You're English, there is absolutely no excuse. >> >> >> >> On Feb 5, 2014, at 11:38 PM, "jammie" <jammie.emma@...> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> because its better to fit a nos slim floppy drive as its cheaper and there new and the convertor board >>> >>> you have been told by me and ted about finding drive that have jumpers for all the signals >>> >>> but you want us to tell you x and y and z >>> >>> and i said do your home work yourself as we arte not here to hold your hand and show you everything >>> >>> i get paid to do these things as does ted we give our free time and help as much as we can but im sorry my life does not evolve around you >>> >>> you have had loads of help from me having to go over and over the same stuff until you got it >>> >>> as i say read the list all the information is there as what you want to know was talked about 5-10 years ago before the slim floppy was found >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Windrumscoggin >>> To: emax@yahoogroups.com >>> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 6:54 AM >>> Subject: Re: [emax] Regarding Floppy Drives >>> >>> >>> >>> If that be the case then why hasn't someone in our EMax group simply said >>> Hey peeps! >>> XY or Z drive works >>> Buy model number so and so >>> Set DS to whatever by doing ABC >>> And voila! There you are! >>> As you you said in your post "the "heavy lifting" has been done already >>> Quite frankly this shouldn't have to be >>> All 'smoke and mirrors' and really, most of us are musicians first and not all that technically qualified to dig as deep as we have had to go just to get units that are only 28 years old functioning as they should. >>> Case in point I have a 1962 Studebaker Lark automobile and I can find rotors, distributor parts, and brake shoes all day long still down at The auto parts store here where I live in California. Seriously, i am not pulling your leg. Aftermarket parts still available for a 51 year old car whose company went out of business in 1966! >>> Technology changes it's protocol in less than five years and the stuff ten years old is damned near obsolete or redundant to the point that you can't even find functioning parts for it anymore. Why technology chose to go this 5 year planned obsolescence thing is beyond me but it's >>> Rather frustrating actually. >>> >>> >>> >>> Le sorcière des Oscillateurs mystère >>> >>> On Feb 5, 2014, at 10:39 PM, <geektech207@...> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> The floppy drives aren't as proprietary as you think. Most of the views (problems) people have with these machines is that they're viewing them through the lens of modern day technology expectations. >>>> >>>> Coming from 2014 PC land, yeah, they're proprietary. Back then there was a standard set by Shugart which was the original floppy standard. Over time the PC market bastardized this standard, and that's why you/we/me tend to view these old drives as proprietary and difficult to work with. Not to say that Ensoniq and Emu drives didn't have some quirks, but they were usually just slight modifications of the Shugart standard. This happens with Amiga / Atari drives as well. >>>> >>>> So just because a modern PC drive has the same number of pins, a similar form factor, and looks like "well, that should work if I toss it in", doesn't make Emu drives all that non-standard. They weren't that oddball back in the early '80s. >>>> >>>> Technically, the biggest difference is that modern drives don't provide a RDY signal and are hard wired to be DS1 instead of DS0. Depending on the brand (Ensoniq, Amiga, Emu) there are differences like BUSY being on pin 4, or Diskchange signals, etc. >>>> >>>> If you're railing against the "replacement floppy drives are expensive" thing, then either you've got to go the slim floppy route Jammie, et al. talks about, the HxC route, or invest some time into understanding the differences between modern PC drives and the drive standards back in the vintage days and then find appropriate drives to mod yourself. Or you can just bite the bullet and buy one from Route66 or whomever. >>>> >>>> This stuff isn't insurmountable. Other people have already done most of the hard lifting, you've just got to look into it a little. >>>> >>> >>> No virus found in this message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3684/7065 - Release Date: 02/05/14 >>> >> >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3684/7067 - Release Date: 02/06/14 >> > >
2014-02-06 by Windrumscoggin
So they are drop in replacements? What is it about the EMU 720k Rule I've ben reading? About How modern 1.44 MB DD drives won't work? If that be the case then why do HD Disks used with the OmniFlop driver Written on Teds machine and EMXP work? Hea only using a a standard 1.44 MB FDD in his PC too So dar tge disks he's written onnhis machine load into Emax fine I am assuming because the driver And floppy code written by eSynthesist Changes the area/sector in which the data is written to on the floppy disk and how the Emax FDD reads/looks for that data in a special way If that be the case why not just mod a regular plentiful TEAC 25hf drive to work in the Emax then just use any old floppy dd in OmniFlop and write the OS that way? Just an amateurs thoughts here Thank You for that list! Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 6, 2014, at 3:00, <geektech207@...> wrote: > Correction: > > Shugart SA300 > Epson SPM-3924 > Panasonic JU324 > Panasonic JU364 > Panasonic JU254 > > Those are single-sided drives that won't work. That's the type needed for Enqoniq Mirage, not emax. As far as I know the rest of the drives on the list should work. Don't own them all, nor have I personally tested them though. > >
2014-02-06 by Ted Summers
So they are drop in replacements?What is it about the EMU 720kRule I've ben reading? AboutHow modern1.44 MB DD drives won't work?If that be the case then why do HDDisks used with the OmniFlop driverWritten on Teds machine and EMXP work? Hea only using a a standard 1.44 MB FDD in his PC tooSo dar tge disks he's written onnhis machine load into Emax fineI am assuming because the driverAnd floppy code written by eSynthesistChanges the area/sector in which the data is written to on the floppy disk and how the Emax FDD reads/looks for that data in a special wayIf that be the case why not just mod a regular plentiful TEAC 25hf drive to work in the Emax then just use any old floppy dd in OmniFlop and write the OS that way?Just an amateurs thoughts hereThank You for that list!
Sent from my iPhoneCorrection:
Shugart SA300
Epson SPM-3924
Panasonic JU324
Panasonic JU364
Panasonic JU254
Those are single-sided drives that won't work. That's the type needed for Enqoniq Mirage, not emax. As far as I know the rest of the drives on the list should work. Don't own them all, nor have I personally tested them though.
2014-02-06 by Christopher Moffatt
Good for you Ted
:-)
So they are drop in replacements?What is it about the EMU 720kRule I've ben reading? AboutHow modern1.44 MB DD drives won't work?If that be the case then why do HDDisks used with the OmniFlop driverWritten on Teds machine and EMXP work? Hea only using a a standard 1.44 MB FDD in his PC tooSo dar tge disks he's written onnhis machine load into Emax fineI am assuming because the driverAnd floppy code written by eSynthesistChanges the area/sector in which the data is written to on the floppy disk and how the Emax FDD reads/looks for that data in a special wayIf that be the case why not just mod a regular plentiful TEAC 25hf drive to work in the Emax then just use any old floppy dd in OmniFlop and write the OS that way?Just an amateurs thoughts hereThank You for that list!
Sent from my iPhoneCorrection:
Shugart SA300
Epson SPM-3924
Panasonic JU324
Panasonic JU364
Panasonic JU254
Those are single-sided drives that won't work. That's the type needed for Enqoniq Mirage, not emax. As far as I know the rest of the drives on the list should work. Don't own them all, nor have I personally tested them though.
2014-02-06 by geektech207@...
2014-02-06 by Francis Cote
Although Windrum is banned, the answer is that, yes, you could "just" mod a drive. But EVERY drive (even within the exact same product line or model range!!) is different and needs to be treated on a case-by-case basis, and some modern drives are simply not capable of being modded at all.
So you need to not only know what drives can be modded, but have one of those drives available, know what those specific mods are, AND be capable of carrying off the mods yourself. That's why no one is giving explicit answers, because it's all highly variable. If you don't already know the answers to these questions then it's simply (in my humble opinion) not worth the effort when you've got Jammie, et al supplying very reasonable alternatives.
How much is your time and frustration worth? If you want to try to save yourself $40 on a new drive and you don't already know exactly what to do and have the skills to pull it off, then be prepared to invest a lot of legwork into sourcing adaptable drives, learning what electrical signals need to be changed to be compatible to the emax / Shugart standard, and also how to (typically) solder surface mount (or through-hole if you're lucky) parts on a floppy drive PCB.
DiY is all well and good, and no one is preventing anyone from pursuing that option. It's simply unfair to expect anyone to hand hold / spoonfeed step-by-step on each and every scenario out there. It's asking a lot, especially from those that HAVE invested the countless hours needed to becoming experts in this particular field and could be getting paid. (And no, I'm no expert, just for the record.)
Just my opinion, and I don't mean to speak for Ted, Jammie, or anyone else.
2014-02-06 by Ted Summers
Although Windrum is banned, the answer is that, yes, you could "just" mod a drive. But EVERY drive (even within the exact same product line or model range!!) is different and needs to be treated on a case-by-case basis, and some modern drives are simply not capable of being modded at all.
So you need to not only know what drives can be modded, but have one of those drives available, know what those specific mods are, AND be capable of carrying off the mods yourself. ; That's why no one is giving explicit answers, because it's all highly variable. If you don't already know the answers to these questions then it's simply (in my humble opinion) not worth the effort when you've got Jammie, et al supplying very reasonable alternatives.
How much is your time and frustration worth? If you want to try to save yourself $40 on a new drive and you don't already know exactly what to do and have the skills to pull it off, then be prepared to invest a lot of legwork into sourcing adaptable drives, learning what electrical signals need to be changed to be compatible to the emax / Shugart standard, and also how to (typically) solder surface mount (or through-hole if you're lucky) parts on a floppy drive PCB.
DiY is all well and good, and no one is preventing anyone from pursuing that option. It's simply unfair to expect anyone to hand hold / spoonfeed step-by-step on each and every scenario out there. It's asking a lot, especially from those that HAVE invested the countless hours needed to becoming experts in this particular field and could be getting paid. (And no, I'm no expert, just for the record.)
Just my opinion, and I don't mean to speak for Ted, Jammie, or anyone else.
2014-02-07 by Michael Padilla
----- Original Message -----From: Ted SummersSent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 9:40 AMSubject: Re: [emax] RE: Regarding Floppy Drives
Regards,I have banned Windrum for his behavior.Jammie provides much more technical help than any other member save myself and Esynthesist.
What many of you don't know is he contacts myself and Jammie (and has been for many months) off board as well as on board.
He has been abrasive in several of those communications (at least to me), even when I am trying to be helpful.
And every time he brings his rants due to his lack of understanding of PCs and the Emax itself and brings up his vaunted HVAC credential (what that has to do with samplers, I don't know).
It would be bad to lose him because someone else is problematic.
Ted
On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 8:50 AM, Windrumscoggin <windrumscoggin@...> wrote:
So they are drop in replacements?What is it about the EMU 720kRule I've ben reading? AboutHow modern1.44 MB DD drives won't work?If that be the case then why do HDDisks used with the OmniFlop driverWritten on Teds machine and EMXP work? Hea only using a a standard 1.44 MB FDD in his PC tooSo dar tge disks he's written onnhis machine load into Emax fineI am assuming because the driverAnd floppy code written by eSynthesistChanges the area/sector in which the data is written to on the floppy disk and how the Emax FDD reads/looks for that data in a special wayIf that be the case why not just mod a regular plentiful TEAC 25hf drive to work in the Emax then just use any old floppy dd in OmniFlop and write the OS that way?Just an amateurs thoughts hereThank You for that list!
Sent from my iPhoneCorrection:
Shugart SA300
Epson SPM-3924
Panasonic JU324
Panasonic JU364
Panasonic JU254
Those are single-sided drives that won't work. That's the type needed for Enqoniq Mirage, not emax. As far as I know the rest of the drives on the list should work. Don't own them all, nor have I personally tested them though.
2014-02-07 by dwv1957@...