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2009-08-07 by Colin Peiris
Dear Friends! I would like to sudjest that a programmed Pic micro controller or an EEPROM can be adopted to boot up the emax key board instead of Floppy or other methods. In this regard you have to modify the interface so that u can read the eprom or controller to boot the emax. So any abel body can experiment in this method. Any ideas about this very much appritiated. Thanks amacolp
2009-08-07 by Ted Summers
Colin- While in theory, booting from some other method is possible someone has to develop this new method, and that takes time, and $$$. I have searched for days on the Web trying to find tools to pull apart / debug / trace the NS32008 code. I have not found any of the Assembler language tools or reference documents for this CPU anywhere. That includes searching websites in foreign languages and translating them where possible. obsolete CPU and documentation is out of print are the replies I have gotten from potential sources. Do you know how to successfully load a foreign format (not PC compatible) OS image for a different CPU machine code into the EEPROM or PIC so that it can be read correctly by the Emax native NS32008 CPU? If you have the tools and reference documents for the NS32008, please share!!!!!! I wanted to increase the # of available sample banks and size of hard drive, and increase the possible available Emax memory by tearing apart the firmware and OS used in the Emax. Please note, the floppy or "other methods" you speak of are necessary to load sound sample banks into the Emax. Emax has no built in sounds. The facts are that MIDI is slow to load samples. :-( Emax doesn't support SCSI dump standard. :-( That leaves RS422 sample input (not as slow), and the analog input (realtime sampling). Then you have to save off your work if you change the samples in the Emax..... The methods work, but are not nearly as fast as having a hard drive, CF, or Zip to load many banks from, when desired. While it does cost some $$ for a SCSI update (where desired), and available floppy options (either my slim floppy, or original replacement from Route66, or if you know how to modify a standard drive to Floppy ID 0)--- These are proven options. They work. If the idea for a new boot process does not incorporate some form of technology that is current using removable media to interact with multiple sound banks, and is inexpensive to implement, I just don't see it being a viable solution. My 2 cents. Ted On Aug 6, 2009, at 7:27 PM, Colin Peiris wrote: Dear Friends! I would like to sudjest that a programmed Pic micro controller or an EEPROM can be adopted to boot up the emax key board instead of Floppy or other methods. In this regard you have to modify the interface so that u can read the eprom or controller to boot the emax. So any abel body can experiment in this method. Any ideas about this very much appritiated. Thanks amacolp [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2009-08-07 by tu@...
What about something like this to replace the floppy drive with a USB flash drive? http://unofficial.waldorf-wave.de/USB-Drive2.pdf
On Fri, Aug 7th, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Ted Summers <djtbs1@...> wrote: > Colin- > > While in theory, booting from some other method is possible someone > > has to develop this new method, and that takes time, and $$$. > > I have searched for days on the Web trying to find tools to pull > apart / debug / trace the NS32008 code. > I have not found any of the Assembler language tools or reference > documents for this CPU anywhere. > That includes searching websites in foreign languages and translating > > them where possible. > > obsolete CPU and documentation is out of print are the replies I have > > gotten from potential sources. > > Do you know how to successfully load a foreign format (not PC > compatible) OS image for a different CPU machine code into the EEPROM > > or PIC so that it can be read correctly by the Emax native NS32008 > CPU? > If you have the tools and reference documents for the NS32008, please > > share!!!!!! > > I wanted to increase the # of available sample banks and size of hard > > drive, and increase the possible available Emax memory by tearing > apart the firmware and OS used in the Emax. > > Please note, the floppy or "other methods" you speak of are necessary > > to load sound sample banks into the Emax. > Emax has no built in sounds. > > The facts are that MIDI is slow to load samples. :-( > Emax doesn't support SCSI dump standard. :-( > > That leaves RS422 sample input (not as slow), and the analog input > (realtime sampling). > Then you have to save off your work if you change the samples in the > > Emax..... > > The methods work, but are not nearly as fast as having a hard drive, > > CF, or Zip to load many banks from, when desired. > > While it does cost some $$ for a SCSI update (where desired), and > available floppy options (either my slim floppy, or original > replacement from Route66, or if you know how to modify a standard > drive to Floppy ID 0)--- > These are proven options. They work. > > If the idea for a new boot process does not incorporate some form of > > technology that is current using removable media to interact with > multiple sound banks, and is inexpensive to implement, I just don't > > see it being a viable solution. > > My 2 cents. > > Ted > > > > > On Aug 6, 2009, at 7:27 PM, Colin Peiris wrote: > > Dear Friends! > > I would like to sudjest that a programmed Pic micro controller or an > > EEPROM can be adopted to boot up the emax key board instead of Floppy > > or other methods. > > In this regard you have to modify the interface so that u can read > the > eprom or controller to boot the emax. So any abel body can experiment > > in this method. > > Any ideas about this very much appritiated. > > Thanks > amacolp > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >
2009-08-07 by Ted Summers
Have you tried this with Emax? What is the cost? Is the floppy ID # 0 on this unit? IF not it will not work "out of the box" with Emax, it would have to be modified. Is it compatible with DS/DD disk size, as it mentions 1.44MB which Emax is not compatible with (Emax is 720K disk size). Looks like this is reading /writing DOS / PC format to each disk directory. That makes it easy to work with on the PC. Emax has its own format. There would have to be a driver written to write the raw disk image into each Floppy disk directory. Just my thoughts having reviewed the PDF. While the idea is not a bad idea, I just think there is a little more to it than slapping in a unit like this. If it were easy, someone would have done it - like me. :-) Esynthesist- any thoughts? Regards, Ted On Aug 6, 2009, at 10:11 PM, tu@... wrote: http://unofficial.waldorf-wave.de/USB-Drive2.pdf [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2009-08-07 by tu@...
Its not exactly cheap, but USB flash drives are.... If this could boot the Emax and work with the floppy controller and 800kB disk format then it would be a great solution! The 100 floppy images are stored on the USB drive as files that can be easily archived when the USB drive is plugged into a PC or Mac :) http://www.ipcas.com/products/usb-floppy-emulator-fdd-to-udd.html
On Fri, Aug 7th, 2009 at 3:11 PM, tu@... wrote: > What about something like this to replace the floppy drive with a USB > flash drive? > > http://unofficial.waldorf-wave.de/USB-Drive2.pdf > > > On Fri, Aug 7th, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Ted Summers <djtbs1@...> > wrote: > > > Colin- > > > > While in theory, booting from some other method is possible someone > > > > > has to develop this new method, and that takes time, and $$$. > > > > I have searched for days on the Web trying to find tools to pull > > apart / debug / trace the NS32008 code. > > I have not found any of the Assembler language tools or reference > > > documents for this CPU anywhere. > > That includes searching websites in foreign languages and > translating > > > > them where possible. > > > > obsolete CPU and documentation is out of print are the replies I > have > > > > gotten from potential sources. > > > > Do you know how to successfully load a foreign format (not PC > > compatible) OS image for a different CPU machine code into the > EEPROM > > > > or PIC so that it can be read correctly by the Emax native NS32008 > > CPU? > > If you have the tools and reference documents for the NS32008, > please > > > > share!!!!!! > > > > I wanted to increase the # of available sample banks and size of > hard > > > > drive, and increase the possible available Emax memory by tearing > > > apart the firmware and OS used in the Emax. > > > > Please note, the floppy or "other methods" you speak of are > necessary > > > > to load sound sample banks into the Emax. > > Emax has no built in sounds. > > > > The facts are that MIDI is slow to load samples. :-( > > Emax doesn't support SCSI dump standard. :-( > > > > That leaves RS422 sample input (not as slow), and the analog input > > > (realtime sampling). > > Then you have to save off your work if you change the samples in > the > > > > Emax..... > > > > The methods work, but are not nearly as fast as having a hard > drive, > > > > CF, or Zip to load many banks from, when desired. > > > > While it does cost some $$ for a SCSI update (where desired), and > > > available floppy options (either my slim floppy, or original > > replacement from Route66, or if you know how to modify a standard > > > drive to Floppy ID 0)--- > > These are proven options. They work. > > > > If the idea for a new boot process does not incorporate some form > of > > > > technology that is current using removable media to interact with > > > multiple sound banks, and is inexpensive to implement, I just don't > > > > > see it being a viable solution. > > > > My 2 cents. > > > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 6, 2009, at 7:27 PM, Colin Peiris wrote: > > > > Dear Friends! > > > > I would like to sudjest that a programmed Pic micro controller or > an > > > > EEPROM can be adopted to boot up the emax key board instead of > Floppy > > > > or other methods. > > > > In this regard you have to modify the interface so that u can read > > the > > eprom or controller to boot the emax. So any abel body can > experiment > > > > in this method. > > > > Any ideas about this very much appritiated. > > > > Thanks > > amacolp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >
2009-08-07 by tu@...
No, I have not tried it with an Emax, I just saw this mentioned today on the Waldorf mailing list. The price is approximately $USD350. According to the manual there are jumpers that set the disk drive mode. I don't know if that relates to drive ID or something else. It may be worth emailing the manufacturer with more detailed questions at info@...
On Fri, Aug 7th, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Ted Summers <djtbs1@...> wrote: > Have you tried this with Emax? > What is the cost? > > Is the floppy ID # 0 on this unit? IF not it will not work "out of > the > box" with Emax, it would have to be modified. > > Is it compatible with DS/DD disk size, as it mentions 1.44MB which > Emax is not compatible with (Emax is 720K disk size). > > Looks like this is reading /writing DOS / PC format to each disk > directory. > That makes it easy to work with on the PC. > Emax has its own format. > There would have to be a driver written to write the raw disk image > > into each Floppy disk directory. > > Just my thoughts having reviewed the PDF. > > While the idea is not a bad idea, I just think there is a little more > > to it than slapping in a unit like this. > If it were easy, someone would have done it - like me. :-) > > Esynthesist- any thoughts? > > Regards, > Ted > > > > > > On Aug 6, 2009, at 10:11 PM, tu@... wrote: > > http://unofficial.waldorf-wave.de/USB-Drive2.pdf > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >
2009-08-07 by jammie
if there is enough room on the boot rom it can go on there just need to have an instruction to boot the reason they put os on floppy was because that way they could change the os when ever with out haveing to reflash the rom on the akai,s they installed it on there rom with the instructions to rewrite os to flash rom with the emax rom you would need to take out rom reformat it the reflash it it would be alright to do this now as there is no new os for it
----- Original Message -----
From: Colin Peiris
To: emax@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 3:27 AM
Subject: [emax] Using Programmed PIC micro Controller
Dear Friends!
I would like to sudjest that a programmed Pic micro controller or an EEPROM can be adopted to boot up the emax key board instead of Floppy or other methods.
In this regard you have to modify the interface so that u can read the eprom or controller to boot the emax. So any abel body can experiment in this method.
Any ideas about this very much appritiated.
Thanks
amacolp
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.45/2285 - Release Date: 08/06/09 05:57:00
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2009-08-07 by mr julian
...I think the problem is, ted looked very hard and couldn't find the datasheet (and therefore the opcodes) for the microprocessor the emax uses.. and without anyone knowing what the opcodes are, no disassembly or hacking is possible..... so to modify the emax to boot off a different kind of device, or handle more banks per disk, you'd have to replace the main microprocessor, and rewrite everything from scratch. that's do-able, but wouldn't exactly be fun... jammie wrote:
> if there is enough room on the boot rom it can go on there > > just need to have an instruction to boot the reason they put os on floppy was because that way they could change the os when ever with out haveing to reflash the rom > > on the akai,s they installed it on there rom with the instructions to rewrite os to flash rom > > with the emax rom you would need to take out rom reformat it the reflash it it would be alright to do this now as there is no new os for it
2009-08-07 by Colin Peiris
--- In emax@yahoogroups.com, Ted Summers <djtbs1@...> wrote: >Dear Tod! Yes I agree to all what u said. But as an experiment I thought I must see whether I can implement this method. If you recall the past BBC Micro technique, they have used this rom booting method. not only for booting to use some software packages. While going through this concept I thought I must learn about this a little and see whether we can do something about. Also I publish this in order to collect some information. Also Ted I near future I may order one converter kit for me to use in my emax. Still I couldn't find a slim floppy.
> Colin- > > While in theory, booting from some other method is possible someone > has to develop this new method, and that takes time, and $$$. > > I have searched for days on the Web trying to find tools to pull > apart / debug / trace the NS32008 code. > I have not found any of the Assembler language tools or reference > documents for this CPU anywhere. > That includes searching websites in foreign languages and translating > them where possible. > > obsolete CPU and documentation is out of print are the replies I have > gotten from potential sources. > > Do you know how to successfully load a foreign format (not PC > compatible) OS image for a different CPU machine code into the EEPROM > or PIC so that it can be read correctly by the Emax native NS32008 CPU? > If you have the tools and reference documents for the NS32008, please > share!!!!!! > > I wanted to increase the # of available sample banks and size of hard > drive, and increase the possible available Emax memory by tearing > apart the firmware and OS used in the Emax. > > Please note, the floppy or "other methods" you speak of are necessary > to load sound sample banks into the Emax. > Emax has no built in sounds. > > The facts are that MIDI is slow to load samples. :-( > Emax doesn't support SCSI dump standard. :-( > > That leaves RS422 sample input (not as slow), and the analog input > (realtime sampling). > Then you have to save off your work if you change the samples in the > Emax..... > > The methods work, but are not nearly as fast as having a hard drive, > CF, or Zip to load many banks from, when desired. > > While it does cost some $$ for a SCSI update (where desired), and > available floppy options (either my slim floppy, or original > replacement from Route66, or if you know how to modify a standard > drive to Floppy ID 0)--- > These are proven options. They work. > > If the idea for a new boot process does not incorporate some form of > technology that is current using removable media to interact with > multiple sound banks, and is inexpensive to implement, I just don't > see it being a viable solution. > > My 2 cents. > > Ted > > > > > On Aug 6, 2009, at 7:27 PM, Colin Peiris wrote: > > Dear Friends! > > I would like to sudjest that a programmed Pic micro controller or an > EEPROM can be adopted to boot up the emax key board instead of Floppy > or other methods. > > In this regard you have to modify the interface so that u can read the > eprom or controller to boot the emax. So any abel body can experiment > in this method. > > Any ideas about this very much appritiated. > > Thanks > amacolp > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
2009-08-07 by Colin Peiris
--- In emax@yahoogroups.com, tu@... wrote: > Dear friend Sounds good and what about the emulator can I built one or do you have one is do send me lill details Regards amacolp
> What about something like this to replace the floppy drive with a USB flash drive? > > http://unofficial.waldorf-wave.de/USB-Drive2.pdf > > > On Fri, Aug 7th, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Ted Summers <djtbs1@...> wrote: > > > Colin- > > > > While in theory, booting from some other method is possible someone > > > > has to develop this new method, and that takes time, and $$$. > > > > I have searched for days on the Web trying to find tools to pull > > apart / debug / trace the NS32008 code. > > I have not found any of the Assembler language tools or reference > > documents for this CPU anywhere. > > That includes searching websites in foreign languages and translating > > > > them where possible. > > > > obsolete CPU and documentation is out of print are the replies I have > > > > gotten from potential sources. > > > > Do you know how to successfully load a foreign format (not PC > > compatible) OS image for a different CPU machine code into the EEPROM > > > > or PIC so that it can be read correctly by the Emax native NS32008 > > CPU? > > If you have the tools and reference documents for the NS32008, please > > > > share!!!!!! > > > > I wanted to increase the # of available sample banks and size of hard > > > > drive, and increase the possible available Emax memory by tearing > > apart the firmware and OS used in the Emax. > > > > Please note, the floppy or "other methods" you speak of are necessary > > > > to load sound sample banks into the Emax. > > Emax has no built in sounds. > > > > The facts are that MIDI is slow to load samples. :-( > > Emax doesn't support SCSI dump standard. :-( > > > > That leaves RS422 sample input (not as slow), and the analog input > > (realtime sampling). > > Then you have to save off your work if you change the samples in the > > > > Emax..... > > > > The methods work, but are not nearly as fast as having a hard drive, > > > > CF, or Zip to load many banks from, when desired. > > > > While it does cost some $$ for a SCSI update (where desired), and > > available floppy options (either my slim floppy, or original > > replacement from Route66, or if you know how to modify a standard > > drive to Floppy ID 0)--- > > These are proven options. They work. > > > > If the idea for a new boot process does not incorporate some form of > > > > technology that is current using removable media to interact with > > multiple sound banks, and is inexpensive to implement, I just don't > > > > see it being a viable solution. > > > > My 2 cents. > > > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 6, 2009, at 7:27 PM, Colin Peiris wrote: > > > > Dear Friends! > > > > I would like to sudjest that a programmed Pic micro controller or an > > > > EEPROM can be adopted to boot up the emax key board instead of Floppy > > > > or other methods. > > > > In this regard you have to modify the interface so that u can read > > the > > eprom or controller to boot the emax. So any abel body can experiment > > > > in this method. > > > > Any ideas about this very much appritiated. > > > > Thanks > > amacolp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >
2009-08-07 by Colin Peiris
--- Hi Julian thanks for the info. But the emulator or converter just do what the existing processor wants. So, I think u need not to worry about the processor just mimic the floppy. that is what Tod must have done. Best regards amacolp In emax@yahoogroups.com, mr julian <jujulilianan@...> wrote:
> > > ...I think the problem is, ted looked very hard and couldn't find the > datasheet (and therefore the opcodes) for the microprocessor the emax > uses.. and without anyone knowing what the opcodes are, no disassembly > or hacking is possible..... > > so to modify the emax to boot off a different kind of device, or handle > more banks per disk, you'd have to replace the main microprocessor, and > rewrite everything from scratch. > > that's do-able, but wouldn't exactly be fun... > > > > jammie wrote: > > if there is enough room on the boot rom it can go on there > > > > just need to have an instruction to boot the reason they put os on floppy was because that way they could change the os when ever with out haveing to reflash the rom > > > > on the akai,s they installed it on there rom with the instructions to rewrite os to flash rom > > > > with the emax rom you would need to take out rom reformat it the reflash it it would be alright to do this now as there is no new os for it >
2009-08-07 by jammie
we would need to ask emu for the assembly langauge and opcodes but if they are like ensoniq then they will say no
----- Original Message -----
From: mr julian
To: emax@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [emax] Using Programmed PIC micro Controller
...I think the problem is, ted looked very hard and couldn't find the
datasheet (and therefore the opcodes) for the microprocessor the emax
uses.. and without anyone knowing what the opcodes are, no disassembly
or hacking is possible.....
so to modify the emax to boot off a different kind of device, or handle
more banks per disk, you'd have to replace the main microprocessor, and
rewrite everything from scratch.
that's do-able, but wouldn't exactly be fun...
jammie wrote:
> if there is enough room on the boot rom it can go on there
>
> just need to have an instruction to boot the reason they put os on floppy was because that way they could change the os when ever with out haveing to reflash the rom
>
> on the akai,s they installed it on there rom with the instructions to rewrite os to flash rom
>
> with the emax rom you would need to take out rom reformat it the reflash it it would be alright to do this now as there is no new os for it
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.45/2286 - Release Date: 08/06/09 18:17:00
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2009-08-07 by Ted Summers
No I did not mimic a floppy- I bought the emax schematic, determined how Emu interfaced the floppy (schugart interface, not standard PC), took a floppy converter board that uses slim floppy, and modified it to Schugart spec. Anyone with know-how can do it. But since most musicians are not necessarily Electronics tech, I provide the floppy converters so that it is a plug and play solution for them /us. I could have done the mod 2 x for my own emax and never told a soul. But that is not in the spirit of this community. SCSI was available from the manufacturer previous, and I got assistance to recreate a valid binary image for the Locking PAL. That is how that happened. All I have done there is re-create similar to the original mfr kit. The SCSI CF drive I use is a standard SCSI drive, no modification. I am not emulating anything..... BTW- you can get a brand new CF drive for a lot less than that USB stick thingy, though it does get about 30 more banks..... But I got my CF drive for like, $5 or $10 used. It does happen, you just have to get lucky, keep searching. As it is, you can get into a more modern type of media for a lot less than $350. I dunno where you are located that you cannot get a slim floppy / scsi drive. ebay is worldwide. I helped someone else find a slim floppy in germany on ebay for germany for less than $10USD. Here they are less or more depending on used or new..... As to the assembler, stuff - Rob at Emu Archive said he spent more than 2 years trying to get those binaries for the SCSI. I doubt they are going to let the OS go- if they even have the assembler anymore.... look what happened with the SE update disk, and the memory expansions for Emax 2......we thought they were gone forever.... BTW- did anyone win that unused mem expansion on ebay for Emax2? what happened with that..... Regards, Ted On Aug 7, 2009, at 3:23 AM, Colin Peiris wrote: --- Hi Julian thanks for the info. But the emulator or converter just do what the existing processor wants. So, I think u need not to worry about the processor just mimic the floppy. that is what Tod must have done. Best regards amacolp In emax@yahoogroups.com, mr julian <jujulilianan@...> wrote: > > > ...I think the problem is, ted looked very hard and couldn't find the > datasheet (and therefore the opcodes) for the microprocessor the emax > uses.. and without anyone knowing what the opcodes are, no disassembly > or hacking is possible..... > > so to modify the emax to boot off a different kind of device, or handle > more banks per disk, you'd have to replace the main microprocessor, and > rewrite everything from scratch. > > that's do-able, but wouldn't exactly be fun... > > > > jammie wrote: > > if there is enough room on the boot rom it can go on there > > > > just need to have an instruction to boot the reason they put os on floppy was because that way they could change the os when ever with out haveing to reflash the rom > > > > on the akai,s they installed it on there rom with the instructions to rewrite os to flash rom > > > > with the emax rom you would need to take out rom reformat it the reflash it it would be alright to do this now as there is no new os for it > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2009-08-07 by tu@...
The Emax main CPU is a National Semiconductor NS32008 and the data sheets are included in the NS32000 Family databook, which is available for free download from http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/national/_dataBooks/1986_NS32000_dataBook.pdf I think the issue is more that without the OS source code and documentation it is a long and grueling task to go through the OS binaries to disassemble them and understand how they work. There will no doubt also be various design constraints that can only really be discovered by trial and error when you don't have the original design documentation. Then you still need an assembler to reassemble the modified code.... but it can be done...
On Fri, Aug 7th, 2009 at 9:37 PM, jammie <jammie.emma@...> wrote: > we would need to ask emu for the assembly langauge and opcodes but if > they are like ensoniq then they will say no > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: mr julian > To: emax@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:38 AM > Subject: Re: [emax] Using Programmed PIC micro Controller > > > > ...I think the problem is, ted looked very hard and couldn't find > the > datasheet (and therefore the opcodes) for the microprocessor the > emax > uses.. and without anyone knowing what the opcodes are, no > disassembly > or hacking is possible..... > > so to modify the emax to boot off a different kind of device, or > handle > more banks per disk, you'd have to replace the main microprocessor, > and > rewrite everything from scratch. > > that's do-able, but wouldn't exactly be fun... > > jammie wrote: > > if there is enough room on the boot rom it can go on there > > > > just need to have an instruction to boot the reason they put os > on floppy was because that way they could change the os when ever > with out haveing to reflash the rom > > > > on the akai,s they installed it on there rom with the > instructions to rewrite os to flash rom > > > > with the emax rom you would need to take out rom reformat it the > reflash it it would be alright to do this now as there is no new os > for it > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.45/2286 - Release Date: > 08/06/09 18:17:00 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >
2009-08-07 by tu@...
Sadly, you cannot easily build one of these floppy emulators and I don't have any to give :P If you want one you will need to contact the company that makes them! http://www.ipcas.com/products/usb-floppy-emulator-fdd-to-udd.html Friday, August 7, 2009, 6:04:22 PM, you wrote: > --- In emax@yahoogroups.com, tu@... wrote: > Dear friend Sounds good and what about the emulator can I built one or do you have one is do send me lill details Regards amacolp
> What about something like this to replace the floppy drive with a USB flash drive? > > http://unofficial.waldorf-wave.de/USB-Drive2.pdf > > > On Fri, Aug 7th, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Ted Summers <djtbs1@...> wrote: > > > Colin- > > > > While in theory, booting from some other method is possible someone > > > > has to develop this new method, and that takes time, and $$$. > > > > I have searched for days on the Web trying to find tools to pull > > apart / debug / trace the NS32008 code. > > I have not found any of the Assembler language tools or reference > > documents for this CPU anywhere. > > That includes searching websites in foreign languages and translating > > > > them where possible. > > > > obsolete CPU and documentation is out of print are the replies I have > > > > gotten from potential sources. > > > > Do you know how to successfully load a foreign format (not PC > > compatible) OS image for a different CPU machine code into the EEPROM > > > > or PIC so that it can be read correctly by the Emax native NS32008 > > CPU? > > If you have the tools and reference documents for the NS32008, please > > > > share!!!!!! > > > > I wanted to increase the # of available sample banks and size of hard > > > > drive, and increase the possible available Emax memory by tearing > > apart the firmware and OS used in the Emax. > > > > Please note, the floppy or "other methods" you speak of are necessary > > > > to load sound sample banks into the Emax. > > Emax has no built in sounds. > > > > The facts are that MIDI is slow to load samples. :-( > > Emax doesn't support SCSI dump standard. :-( > > > > That leaves RS422 sample input (not as slow), and the analog input > > (realtime sampling). > > Then you have to save off your work if you change the samples in the > > > > Emax..... > > > > The methods work, but are not nearly as fast as having a hard drive, > > > > CF, or Zip to load many banks from, when desired. > > > > While it does cost some $$ for a SCSI update (where desired), and > > available floppy options (either my slim floppy, or original > > replacement from Route66, or if you know how to modify a standard > > drive to Floppy ID 0)--- > > These are proven options. They work. > > > > If the idea for a new boot process does not incorporate some form of > > > > technology that is current using removable media to interact with > > multiple sound banks, and is inexpensive to implement, I just don't > > > > see it being a viable solution. > > > > My 2 cents. > > > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 6, 2009, at 7:27 PM, Colin Peiris wrote: > > > > Dear Friends! > > > > I would like to sudjest that a programmed Pic micro controller or an > > > > EEPROM can be adopted to boot up the emax key board instead of Floppy > > > > or other methods. > > > > In this regard you have to modify the interface so that u can read > > the > > eprom or controller to boot the emax. So any abel body can experiment > > > > in this method. > > > > Any ideas about this very much appritiated. > > > > Thanks > > amacolp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >
2009-08-08 by mr julian
> The Emax main CPU is a National Semiconductor NS32008 and the data sheets are included in the NS32000 Family databook, which is available for free > download from http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/national/_dataBooks/1986_NS32000_dataBook.pdf > oooh! cool! I hadn't thought to look. > I think the issue is more that without the OS source code and documentation it is a long and grueling task to go through the OS binaries to disassemble > them and understand how they work. There will no doubt also be various design constraints that can only really be discovered by trial and error when > you don't have the original design documentation. Then you still need an assembler to reassemble the modified code.... but it can be done... > actually with the opcodes it should be very possible to disassemble the code, and make changes... yeah it'd be a bit of a slog, but not really much more than what esynthesist already did with the sample format. and people have already done this for other samplers. especially if you're just looking for something like the HDD code, to enable a wider range of SCSI devices, bigger sizes, and more banks... or the boot code, to put the OS onto an eeprom. You'd just need to look for memory accesses at the location where the related hardware is, and then poke around looking for what interacts with that code.
2009-09-13 by David Bulog
Can you tell me if the Kurzweil K2500 with sampling option is as nice a sounding sampler as Emax 2 Anyone own both thanks in advance David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2009-09-13 by Frequency Spectrum
Not the same kind of sound but i dont think anyone would be dissapointed owning one of these. On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 12:49 PM, David Bulog <d2ba@...> wrote: > > > Can you tell me if the Kurzweil K2500 with sampling option is as nice > a sounding sampler as Emax 2 > Anyone own both > > thanks in advance > David > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2009-09-13 by Tristan
Hello David, Yes, I own both. The K2500 operating system and features are much more sophisticated than the Emax 2 and the sound is also quite different. The K2500 sample playback is very clean, and can of course be processed by the VAST DSP engine, but lacks what I can only describe as the grain and bite of the Emax 2. The K2500 can also only transpose samples up about one octave (or two at reduced fidelity) whereas the Emax 2 can go up 5 octaves. But the K2500 supports 44.1kHz and 48kHz sampling rates and the sampling option provides digital I/O. When I originally changed from an Emax 2 to a K2000 I must admit I was a bit disappointed by the sound of the Kurzweil, but at today's prices you can easily afford to have both :) -- Best regards, Tristan mailto:tu@... Sunday, September 13, 2009, 9:49:30 PM, you wrote: > Can you tell me if the Kurzweil K2500 with sampling option is as nice a sounding sampler as Emax 2 Anyone own both thanks in advance David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2009-09-13 by jammie
i own both the capabilities of the k2500 blows the emax2 away it has superior synthesis functions and with 128 mb of ram you dont need the sampling option as its better to use the conp and then save as wave files as the kurzweil loads wav files you only need the sampling option if you are going to sample instruments direct in to the k2500 i dont use any of my samplers inputs any more but use the converters on my sound card as they are far superior then any samplers i then use awave to make instrument files for my samplers and exmp for the emax1/2 i also use awave robot for my lopping as its got the best looping engine i have ever come across spectral synthesis is good on the emaxes transform is good aswell but i use it on the ex2 sampler as its much faster you can pick up a k2500 with a kdfx for about £400-500 were as a 2mb emax goes for £100 and the 8mb version £200-400 its up to you or go for a k2000 which has the same engine as the k2500 but does not have the kdfx and is only 64mb sample ram you can get one of these from £100-250 depending on condition the sub systems of the kuraweils are windows compatible so you can stor krz or k25 files on a pc and just move them across to a media format ie zip or hardrive or ramcard depending on what drive you have installed to you k2500 and awave studio you can make patches with upto 3 layers per patch and you can make massive banks with only a few samples useing variations of parameters and fx it also loads ensoniq files roland files and s1000 akai files and wav you can also use single cycle wave forms and use the synthesis functions to warp and transform them so you can make a lot of synth sounds with very little samples in memory its like having a vsti softsynth in your hardware and it came out way before vsti did personally i lke both synths but to me the emax1 is better than the emax2 for the analog warmth of the filters all be it tiny memory size but i use single cycle waves any way and use the synth section this way you have unlimited memory and layering to samples with diferent panning settings can give a very large sound and using more channels with the same samples and pitching them slightly to get fat unison sounds
----- Original Message -----
From: David Bulog
To: emax@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 12:49 PM
Subject: [emax] Emax 2 vs kurzweil K2500 Sampler
Can you tell me if the Kurzweil K2500 with sampling option is as nice
a sounding sampler as Emax 2
Anyone own both
thanks in advance
David
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2009-09-13 by Paul Davidson
On Sep 13, 2009, at 9:37 AM, jammie wrote: > i dont use any of my samplers inputs any more but use the > converters on my sound card as they are far superior then any > samplers i then use awave to make instrument files for my samplers > and exmp for the emax1/2 i also use awave robot for my lopping as > its got the best looping engine i have ever come across > > Is this the same thing as the "find" loop function in Awave Studio? I discovered "wave robot" , but haven't come up with anything searching Awave+Robot Thanks, Paul [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2009-09-13 by jammie
typo it was waverobot by skylife
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Davidson
To: emax@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: [emax] Emax 2 vs kurzweil K2500 Sampler
On Sep 13, 2009, at 9:37 AM, jammie wrote:
> i dont use any of my samplers inputs any more but use the
> converters on my sound card as they are far superior then any
> samplers i then use awave to make instrument files for my samplers
> and exmp for the emax1/2 i also use awave robot for my lopping as
> its got the best looping engine i have ever come across
>
>
Is this the same thing as the "find" loop function in Awave Studio?
I discovered "wave robot" , but haven't come up with anything
searching Awave+Robot
Thanks,
Paul
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2009-09-13 by David Bulog
Thanks Tristan What interested me about the K2500 is early Autechure used a K2500RS and they claim that is their best sampler for mangling samples at the time --late 1990s I did notice that the sampling on Emax 2 contains that magic grain much like the SP1200. EMU lost it with the Emulator 4 series I bought the K2500 keyboard USD$400 ---I like the keyboard and appegiator. One advantage is you can send midi notes out in the appegiator but one the otherhand you cannot clock the appegiator to midi clock directly unless you go into dequencer song mode and record it as a sequence--- go figure In the Emax 2 Appegiator you can clock to midi clock but it does not send midi notes out cheers David On 14/09/2009, at 12:50 AM, Tristan wrote: > Hello David, > > Yes, I own both. The K2500 operating system and features are much more > sophisticated than the Emax 2 and the sound is also quite different. > The K2500 sample playback is very clean, and can of course be > processed by the VAST DSP engine, but lacks what I can only describe > as the grain and bite of the Emax 2. The K2500 can also only transpose > samples up about one octave (or two at reduced fidelity) whereas the > Emax 2 can go up 5 octaves. But the K2500 supports 44.1kHz and 48kHz > sampling rates and the sampling option provides digital I/O. When I > originally changed from an Emax 2 to a K2000 I must admit I was a bit > disappointed by the sound of the Kurzweil, but at today's prices you > can easily afford to have both :) > > -- > Best regards, > Tristan mailto:tu@... > > Sunday, September 13, 2009, 9:49:30 PM, you wrote: > > > > > Can you tell me if the Kurzweil K2500 with sampling option is as nice > a sounding sampler as Emax 2 > Anyone own both > > thanks in advance > David > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2009-10-09 by Reinaldo
I had a K2500RS and I didn't like it. I could see why people did but no my kind of texture. Too complex, too many perameters, too many options that no one actually used. If you were an actual programmer kind of person the machine is awesome. But for me was anoying and everyone who had it barely pulled something different out of the presets already had. Personally I like the Emax II beter even is an inferior machine but is simple and to the point. For me is more fun to use, is more towards live performance and music rather than programing.
2009-10-09 by nonlocalmusic
fwiw the period of Autechre that I've most enjoyed (amber to chiastic slide) is super heavy on the ensoniq samplers eps/asr10. The k series samplers certainly can do a lot interesting processing, but they are not nearly as immediate or fun to use as an emu or ensoniq. I love the E4 series. Maybe not the best for grainy, but not surpassed for creamy smoothness. fantastic filters and sick bass! I'll second the notion above tho... with the prices for hardware samplers where they are at today -- if you're making the choice to use hardware, you may as well buy one of each and use them for what they particularly excel at. Depending on the market where you live, one could buy nearly all the top samplers for the price of one midlevel board ten years ago. emax $40, e4xt $50, s770 $150, eps $150 ASR10 350, MPC60 $450, s950 $150 k2000 $200, . The s770 alone listed at $13000 when new :-O --- In emax@yahoogroups.com, David Bulog <d2ba@...> wrote:
> > Thanks Tristan > What interested me about the K2500 is early Autechure used a K2500RS > and they claim that is their best sampler for mangling samples at the > time --late 1990s > I did notice that the sampling on Emax 2 contains that magic grain > much like the SP1200. EMU lost it with the Emulator 4 series > I bought the K2500 keyboard USD$400 ---I like the keyboard and > appegiator. > One advantage is you can send midi notes out in the appegiator but one > the otherhand you cannot clock the appegiator to midi clock directly > unless you go into dequencer song mode and record it as a sequence--- > go figure > In the Emax 2 Appegiator you can clock to midi clock but it does not > send midi notes out > > > cheers David > > > > On 14/09/2009, at 12:50 AM, Tristan wrote: > > > Hello David, > > > > Yes, I own both. The K2500 operating system and features are much more > > sophisticated than the Emax 2 and the sound is also quite different. > > The K2500 sample playback is very clean, and can of course be > > processed by the VAST DSP engine, but lacks what I can only describe > > as the grain and bite of the Emax 2. The K2500 can also only transpose > > samples up about one octave (or two at reduced fidelity) whereas the > > Emax 2 can go up 5 octaves. But the K2500 supports 44.1kHz and 48kHz > > sampling rates and the sampling option provides digital I/O. When I > > originally changed from an Emax 2 to a K2000 I must admit I was a bit > > disappointed by the sound of the Kurzweil, but at today's prices you > > can easily afford to have both :) > > > > -- > > Best regards, > > Tristan mailto:tu@... > > > > Sunday, September 13, 2009, 9:49:30 PM, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me if the Kurzweil K2500 with sampling option is as nice > > a sounding sampler as Emax 2 > > Anyone own both > > > > thanks in advance > > David > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
2009-10-09 by Brooks Mosher
fact: you can do a lot more on a K2500 than any of the other mentioned samplers. with all the functionality it offers, it's like the swiss army knife of samplers. not too mention, if you're into techno that comes out of Detroit you should know that a lot of producers used the K2000 (Carl Craig, Kenny Larkin, Anthony "Shake" Shakir...). they're really more than a sampler; they're hardware DSP machines that sample. my opinion: they are punchy sounding but definitely lack the warmth of Emu samplers such as the Emax or EIII. i've always thought the K2000 to have somewhat of a colder metalic quality but that could also be the internal ROM sound set (really nice strings on it though). contrary to other opnions i found the K2000 to be quite immediate and easy to get what i want out. you can do whole tracks with one as well (unlike an Emax)... On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 2:27 PM, nonlocalmusic <nonlocalmusic@...>wrote: > > > fwiw the period of Autechre that I've most enjoyed (amber to chiastic > slide) is super heavy on the ensoniq samplers eps/asr10. > > The k series samplers certainly can do a lot interesting processing, but > they are not nearly as immediate or fun to use as an emu or ensoniq. > > I love the E4 series. Maybe not the best for grainy, but not surpassed for > creamy smoothness. fantastic filters and sick bass! > > I'll second the notion above tho... with the prices for hardware samplers > where they are at today -- if you're making the choice to use hardware, you > may as well buy one of each and use them for what they particularly excel > at. > > Depending on the market where you live, one could buy nearly all the top > samplers for the price of one midlevel board ten years ago. > > emax $40, e4xt $50, s770 $150, eps $150 ASR10 350, MPC60 $450, s950 $150 > k2000 $200, . > > The s770 alone listed at $13000 when new :-O > > --- In emax@yahoogroups.com <emax%40yahoogroups.com>, David Bulog <d2ba@...> > wrote: > > > > Thanks Tristan > > What interested me about the K2500 is early Autechure used a K2500RS > > and they claim that is their best sampler for mangling samples at the > > time --late 1990s > > I did notice that the sampling on Emax 2 contains that magic grain > > much like the SP1200. EMU lost it with the Emulator 4 series > > I bought the K2500 keyboard USD$400 ---I like the keyboard and > > appegiator. > > One advantage is you can send midi notes out in the appegiator but one > > the otherhand you cannot clock the appegiator to midi clock directly > > unless you go into dequencer song mode and record it as a sequence--- > > go figure > > In the Emax 2 Appegiator you can clock to midi clock but it does not > > send midi notes out > > > > > > cheers David > > > > > > > > On 14/09/2009, at 12:50 AM, Tristan wrote: > > > > > Hello David, > > > > > > Yes, I own both. The K2500 operating system and features are much more > > > sophisticated than the Emax 2 and the sound is also quite different. > > > The K2500 sample playback is very clean, and can of course be > > > processed by the VAST DSP engine, but lacks what I can only describe > > > as the grain and bite of the Emax 2. The K2500 can also only transpose > > > samples up about one octave (or two at reduced fidelity) whereas the > > > Emax 2 can go up 5 octaves. But the K2500 supports 44.1kHz and 48kHz > > > sampling rates and the sampling option provides digital I/O. When I > > > originally changed from an Emax 2 to a K2000 I must admit I was a bit > > > disappointed by the sound of the Kurzweil, but at today's prices you > > > can easily afford to have both :) > > > > > > -- > > > Best regards, > > > Tristan mailto:tu@... > > > > > > Sunday, September 13, 2009, 9:49:30 PM, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me if the Kurzweil K2500 with sampling option is as nice > > > a sounding sampler as Emax 2 > > > Anyone own both > > > > > > thanks in advance > > > David > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2009-10-09 by jammie
i own a eII eIII emax and emax2 and e4ultra i own a k2000 i own a number off eps16+ and asr10 a bunch of akais roland s330 and s760 korg dss1/ dsm1 and mirage each has its qualities the others dont the k2000 is very easy to use and having 64mb memory helps you can have upto 3 layers to 1 instrument so you can get fat sounds and the dsp synthesis function are great you can take a single cycle waveform and use a choas dsp function called wrap and just by setting the wrap you can warp the single cycle into new unheard of sounds theres a lot more filter types to its all in the programming the down side to the k2000 is the tronspose function of a sample you can only double the root when sampling at 48khz as the top most playing capacity is 96khz so you need more samples when using multi samples but having 64mb this does not matter plus its 16 multi timbral the good thing about the emaxes is they use special voice chips that deal with the transpose function so you can layer 1 sample across the keyboard if necessary this is good as the memory is small remember the emax2 is digital just the same as the k2000 and saying that the emax2 is warmer is obsurd now if your talking about the emax1 or the eII or eIII then these are much warmer as they are analog filtered out put with digital oscillators the korg dss1 is another fat analog digital hybrid but this has the ability to sync its oscillators the eps16/asr 10 are another great pair of samplers that can do transwave synthesis this is like owning a ppg wave in your sampler as you can do wave sweep modulation which allows you to sweep through a wavetable sample roland have the best sounding digital resonance filter of all the digital filters in any synth its a very brash warm filter the e4 series filters are great as they are able to do filtration that no other sampler can and on the software version you can create your own the mirage is totally aliased digital crunch through warm analog filters and are great for drums for that retro hiphop sound nasty by janet jackson thats produced on a number of mirages casio fz1 has nice warped digital filters and was a fave of the early drum and bass and hardcore scene i use all of them because each is special in its own way and every one of them has its own sound its all in the programming and how you want to percieve them you can make any sound analog by using more than 1 layer and variating a few cycles of waveform and then changing the fase slightly from 1 another and detuning a little bit to the other sample so that you get a small bit of drift between the oscilators but in this climate you can pick up hardware really cheaply
----- Original Message -----
From: Brooks Mosher
To: emax@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [emax] Re: Emax 2 vs kurzweil K2500 Sampler
fact:
you can do a lot more on a K2500 than any of the other mentioned samplers.
with all the functionality it offers, it's like the swiss army knife of
samplers. not too mention, if you're into techno that comes out of Detroit
you should know that a lot of producers used the K2000 (Carl Craig, Kenny
Larkin, Anthony "Shake" Shakir...). they're really more than a sampler;
they're hardware DSP machines that sample.
my opinion:
they are punchy sounding but definitely lack the warmth of Emu samplers such
as the Emax or EIII. i've always thought the K2000 to have somewhat of a
colder metalic quality but that could also be the internal ROM sound set
(really nice strings on it though). contrary to other opnions i found the
K2000 to be quite immediate and easy to get what i want out. you can do
whole tracks with one as well (unlike an Emax)...
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 2:27 PM, nonlocalmusic <nonlocalmusic@...>wrote:
>
>
> fwiw the period of Autechre that I've most enjoyed (amber to chiastic
> slide) is super heavy on the ensoniq samplers eps/asr10.
>
> The k series samplers certainly can do a lot interesting processing, but
> they are not nearly as immediate or fun to use as an emu or ensoniq.
>
> I love the E4 series. Maybe not the best for grainy, but not surpassed for
> creamy smoothness. fantastic filters and sick bass!
>
> I'll second the notion above tho... with the prices for hardware samplers
> where they are at today -- if you're making the choice to use hardware, you
> may as well buy one of each and use them for what they particularly excel
> at.
>
> Depending on the market where you live, one could buy nearly all the top
> samplers for the price of one midlevel board ten years ago.
>
> emax $40, e4xt $50, s770 $150, eps $150 ASR10 350, MPC60 $450, s950 $150
> k2000 $200, .
>
> The s770 alone listed at $13000 when new :-O
>
> --- In emax@yahoogroups.com <emax%40yahoogroups.com>, David Bulog <d2ba@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Tristan
> > What interested me about the K2500 is early Autechure used a K2500RS
> > and they claim that is their best sampler for mangling samples at the
> > time --late 1990s
> > I did notice that the sampling on Emax 2 contains that magic grain
> > much like the SP1200. EMU lost it with the Emulator 4 series
> > I bought the K2500 keyboard USD$400 ---I like the keyboard and
> > appegiator.
> > One advantage is you can send midi notes out in the appegiator but one
> > the otherhand you cannot clock the appegiator to midi clock directly
> > unless you go into dequencer song mode and record it as a sequence---
> > go figure
> > In the Emax 2 Appegiator you can clock to midi clock but it does not
> > send midi notes out
> >
> >
> > cheers David
> >
> >
> >
> > On 14/09/2009, at 12:50 AM, Tristan wrote:
> >
> > > Hello David,
> > >
> > > Yes, I own both. The K2500 operating system and features are much more
> > > sophisticated than the Emax 2 and the sound is also quite different.
> > > The K2500 sample playback is very clean, and can of course be
> > > processed by the VAST DSP engine, but lacks what I can only describe
> > > as the grain and bite of the Emax 2. The K2500 can also only transpose
> > > samples up about one octave (or two at reduced fidelity) whereas the
> > > Emax 2 can go up 5 octaves. But the K2500 supports 44.1kHz and 48kHz
> > > sampling rates and the sampling option provides digital I/O. When I
> > > originally changed from an Emax 2 to a K2000 I must admit I was a bit
> > > disappointed by the sound of the Kurzweil, but at today's prices you
> > > can easily afford to have both :)
> > >
> > > --
> > > Best regards,
> > > Tristan mailto:tu@...
> > >
> > > Sunday, September 13, 2009, 9:49:30 PM, you wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Can you tell me if the Kurzweil K2500 with sampling option is as nice
> > > a sounding sampler as Emax 2
> > > Anyone own both
> > >
> > > thanks in advance
> > > David
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.8/2425 - Release Date: 10/09/09 08:10:00
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