EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

Hello to all EXS folks,

Here's some answers to your questions and comments:

(BTW, All of this information is always printed on the OUTSIDE of our 
packages, so if you don't like these policy, you can return the disc unopened 
and get a full refund).

>I was sure I could buy a Sample CD and sell it if I wanted I didn´t know
>I had to die with the Sample Cd in my grave!

That's basically it. The license is for a single person.

>Of course (if I'm informed correctly) you are allowed to sell or give away
>your CDs, but again it's obvious to me that after this you aren't allowed
>to use the material any longer by yourself.

That's incorrect Sascha (see below)

>So what happens if let´s say I bought a CD and want to sell it I can´t
>do this either??

Correct. For the same reason that you can't "sell" a license of a James Brown 
recording, even if you bought a license from his record company to use it 
yourself. You don't own the recordings, so you can't license them or give 
those rights to someone else.

>If I buy a PC game and want to sell it there is nothing illegal about that
>so what´s the difference in selling a PC game original or a Sample CD 
>original??

Big difference...you aren't using the game to create a new game. With Sample 
CDs, you use the recorded material to create your own music recordings. 
That's why a license is different than a piece of software. (although you 
should really check the legalities of trading the PC games, different laws 
apply to software).

>Or if the worst thing happens for example It gets stolen or I die and 
>someone keeps the Sample CD will someone sue my mum and dad????

No worries, legal action would be taken against the thief, not your mum & dad!

>It seems like you third part developers have big problems then because
>I´ve seen people all over the world trading CD´s and what about all the Mp 
3´s
>with samples from Sample Cd´s wich are trade with all the different look
>a like Napster programs aren´t all those people about 100 million people 
trading sounds and samples illegally??

You are correct...this is a major problem for our industry. The changes that 
have taken place in the last few years are massive. But it is the same old 
argument that if everyone's doing it, then it must be legal. As Napster will 
tell you, that just isn't the case.

>Sometimes it gets very difficult to know If it´s legal or not at least
> people in the west with internet are not always following the rules and
>if those 100 millions are doing soemthing illegal why aren´t there people
>suing them are they to many to handle???

Certainly, many people do illegal things these days. Lots of lawsuits are 
happening, but you don't hear about many of them. If you know anyone at a 
record company, they'll tell you about lots of cases that are going on. 

It isn't difficult to know the legalities of Sample CD swapping, all of our 
products come with lots of information in written and audio form explaining 
what is allowed and what is not. We cannot control if people ignore the laws, 
but we do go after people who break the law. There exists several 
organizations that police this activity, and all the developers in the 
business share info on who's doing what.

>Well Spectrasonics please send me a link with laws because it seems a hell
>of a lot easier to get hold of Cd´s than knowing the law!

Check out the Sound Recording Copyright Act from the US Copyright office.

>One question pops up though:
>Let's assume I'm doing a remix and there's one single loop in the material
>I'm getting, coming from a commercial sample CD. In order to use that single
>loop in the remix, will I have to buy the complete CD just because of that?

If the original artist has a license, then you are OK to use it only for the 
remix. If not, you could have legal problems...especially if your remix 
becomes popular.

>The way I'm doing it now is that I streem all tracks from bar 1 to the
>end of the song. That doesn't give away the samples, but it gives away the 
way _I_ used the samples.
>I also write on the tracks sheet what samples cd's where used. Nobody could 
tell me if this is the legal way to do it though...
>Maybe somebody from Spectrasonic would comment on this?

This is an excellent way of solving the problem -it respects our samples, and 
allows you to deliver the project to the label. Great!

>When someone decided to create a samples CD, he absolutely knows that the
>CD can be copied ( of course, or he is from a planet called QWERTY !)...
>If I bought a CD I can do what I want with... give it to someone, make
>a present, put it in the trash or whatever...

It is also very easy to go over the speed limit when you are driving a car, 
but it doesn't mean that you won't get a ticket! Of course we know that it is 
easy to copy, but that doesn't mean that we don't care about it, and that we 
don't prosecute people that abuse the law.

>So if I buy the permission I can´t sell it??
>How can Michael Jackson the buy all the Beatles permissions??

It cost over $100 million as I remember.

>But I still want an answer If I have an original sample CD can´t I change
>it with someone else who bought an original sample CD???

No you can't.

>Like you said I buy the permission but I must be able to sell my permission
>somehow if I want or??

That's what a "non-transferrable, single-user" license means.

>You want to be moral about it and realize the clear legal ambiguities of
>the different
>possible ways of aquiring use of these sounds, but you rationalize it by
>telling
>yourself that you wouldn't be buying these CDs anyway. So having them to
>play around
>and experiment with and maybe even occassionaly use on an income generating
>project
>isn't really costing the sample makers any lost profit because you wouldn't
>be buying
>them anyway. All of a sudden the crime you are committing seems a bit more
>distant.
>You feel removed from it.
>
>Bottom line of course is that we all know that if you aren't paying for
>them, then you
>shouldn't be using them. At all. You don't pay the money, you shouldn't
>be part of the
>party. Anyway, I don't have any real point to get at here; I'm just 
commenting
>on the
>moral paradigm I see around me all the time; which affects me and that
>I am required
>to function within. And after all is asaid and done, at the end of the
>day, most everyone I know finds a way to sleep decently at night.

Rationalization is a beautiful thing!

:-)

However, obviously you have to draw the line. It isn't a "victimless" crime. 
Illegal copying, trading and piracy radically affects my family and the 
musicians who are involved in our projects (they receive royalties from the 
sales), does that make it easier for you to do the right thing?

As this forum regularly points out, there are lots of free and legal 
alternatives for sounds. They're usually not as good as commercial libraries, 
but you get what you pay for. You don't HAVE to use illegally pirated 
libraries to make a music business for yourself.

>What if your not professional and not using it on a pro job, but only using 
it
>for your own personal non professional projects? And based on the cost
>to profit ratio you wouldn't normally buy these CDs.  Of course it is still
>illegal, but is the crime then as "bad"?

It would be inconsistent for us to allow non-pros to use our samples on an 
unlimited basis, while pros had to pay. It would be impossible to track, 
since many bedroom productions now go on to be major hits. We have to keep it 
simple.

>If u'r not professionnal, I mean u don't earn money with u'r music, u can
>do what u want !
>I don't know any report of any TRIAL against any kind of user.

That's really bad advice. Individual, non-pro users get in trouble for 
illegal copying and trading all the time. Just because you don't know about 
it, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen regularly. Most people that have 
illegal discs will get in trouble over it, it's usually just a matter of when.

>Did those companies invest in research to find a solution to not be able
>to copy Cd ? ...no...

Yael, you are way off base here. You don't know what any of these companies 
are doing. If you read the news, you'll see that these days every 
intellectual property owner who is distributing on CDs/DVDs is working on 
non-copyable CD technology. It is a huge hassle for everyone, but it is 
necessary.

>it's not a Money problem, even 1 $ ... when u win money u can buy those
>Cd,
>
>if it's an hobby u can do what u want...

Your opinion, but not the law.

>Here in the UK licences to play music recordings in public places, and
>places of work are administered by the PRS (Performing Rights Society)
>who collect the licence fees and distribute to the copyright holders as
>royalties.

PRS, ACAP and BMI are organizations that license the performance of 
compositions (songwriting). This area of Copyright Law is wholly separate 
from the Sound Recording copyright. As such, our samples are not covered 
under any agreements with any of these organizations. You have to buy the 
disc (license) from an authorized Spectrasonics dealer or distributor.

>Maybe we could have a group purchase of a studio and a set of horn players,
>and share all the sounds together via rocket!!!!!!!!

I would highly recommend this experiment. Everyone involved will have a new 
appreciation of what is involved to produce a usable patch. Brass in 
particular is insanely hard.

Whew! Long post......hope that helps clarify some of these issues. 

Best regards,

Eric Persing
Creative Director
Spectrasonics











Best regards,

Eric Persing
Spectrasonics