EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

A very warm "thank you all" to all those who purchased the Old Lady 
recently. There is such a high number of EXS24 users that I want to 
thank you all personally. 
We will start shipping the disks this week, oldest orders first, so 
please be patient.
I also want to let everyone know about the drawbacks of using the 24 
bit version of this large piano library, the processor load, etc. The 
library is 2.8 GB in 16 bit and around 4.4 GB in 24 bits so it is one 
of the "larger" piano libraries. Loading such a piano in EXS24 is not 
as easy as loading a small violin patch so some advice: You can save 
yourself a lot of grief when you use a serious muscle machine and a 
truckload of memory to make the 24bit beast behave on the EXS24. The 
minimum RAM spec is around 1 GB but we recommend that you buy as much 
as you can afford. When you have around 3 GB you can load the piano 
without using Virtual memory, which will result in better 
performance. If you need to use Virtual Memory you must take care of 
the following. Virtual Memory can be switched On and OFF in the EXS24 
settings menu. The first option in the VM screen is about the disk 
speed. If you set this to FAST, you really need the fastest disk you 
can imagine. Logic will assume that you have at least a 7200 rpm SATA 
drive and will not restrict the data bandwidth on the SATA bus. Even 
when your drive is fast this setting will easily lead to pops and 
clicks! Setting this to SLOW will give Logic a clue to be careful 
with the disk speed and this results in less pops and clicks! Since 
not everybody will use the Old Lady on a dual G5 with 4 GB of RAM we 
have another recommendation: We supply installers for both 16 and 24 
versions on the same DVD. Use the 16 bit version for tracking and 
load the 24 bit devil to freeze the track (prior to bouncing).

On Nov 22, 2004, at 9:41 AM, michielpost2003 wrote:

>  The
>  library is 2.8 GB in 16 bit and around 4.4 GB in 24 bits so it is one
>  of the "larger" piano libraries.

Hi Michael (and other Old Lady users),

I just got my "Old Lady" today. I installed the 16 bit stuffit archive 
version, and the whole thing decompressed to only 1.81 gigs in size (in 
the EXS format). Am I missing something? Is this normal for the EXS 
version?

I ran the EXS Manager, and the samples loaded up fine. But a unique 
problem just started today since I have been playing the Old lady, and 
I can't help but suspect that it may be related. After a period of time 
of playing, my audio engine just drops out. I can no longer get audio 
and have to shutdown the whole computer and reboot. Granted, I am using 
the shitty Digidesign Core Audio drivers in OS X with my Digi 001, but 
still; this hasn't happened before. Is it possible this symptom is 
related to the Old Lady.


--------
Eli Krantzberg
http://www.nightshiftorchestra.com
Almat Productions



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Eli Krantzberg wrote: 
>
> I just got my "Old Lady" today. I installed the 16 bit stuffit archive 
> version, and the whole thing decompressed to only 1.81 gigs in size (in 
> the EXS format). Am I missing something? Is this normal for the EXS 
> version?


As your quoted section says - it is the 24 bit version which is the 4.4 GB
monster - is that what you were expecting? They are both there on the disk. I
can't assist on the audio issue as I'm on PC.

Regards,
Murray

On Dec 13, 2004, at 8:26 PM, Murray McDowall wrote:

>
>  As your quoted section says - it is the 24 bit version which is the 
> 4.4 GB
>  monster - is that what you were expecting?

No. I was expecting 2.8 gigs, but only ended up with 1.8.1 gigs. Here 
is that original quote from Michael Post again:

  >  The
  >  library is 2.8 GB in 16 bit and around 4.4 GB in 24 bits so it is 
one
  >  of the "larger" piano libraries.


> They are both there on the disk.

I know they are both there. I only decompressed the 16 bit version 
though. Is there anything else I need to "install" for the 16 bit 
version. It seems like I must be missing something for there to be such 
a big discrepancy between the stated size and the actual size.


--------
Eli Krantzberg
http://www.nightshiftorchestra.com
Almat Productions



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 08:41 PM 12/13/04 -0500, you wrote: 

>
> No. I was expecting 2.8 gigs, but only ended up with 1.8.1 gigs. Here 
> is that original quote from Michael Post again:
>
>   >  The
>   >  library is 2.8 GB in 16 bit and around 4.4 GB in 24 bits so it is one
>   >  of the "larger" piano libraries.


I think that 2.8 figure is an error. The file "Old Lady EXS16.sitx" is 778MB on
my disk. Assuming ~ 50-60 % compression that would expand to 1.6 -1.8 GB. I
doubt whether 2.8GB of files could be compressed by current methods  to 778MB
without loss. The Old Lady 24.sitx file is 2,126 MB and it expands by a similar
factor after installation.

If the instrument definition cannot find any of the audio files it epects it
will report that when you try to load the piano. If it loads without complaint,
the audio files are all there. 

Regards,
Murray

On Dec 13, 2004, at 9:50 PM, Murray McDowall wrote:


>  I think that 2.8 figure is an error.

This is what I suspect as well. That's the purpose of my post. I want 
to verify if other EXS/Old Lady users can confirm the numbers.

>  The file "Old Lady EXS16.sitx" is 778MB on
>  my disk.

Same on mine.

> Assuming ~ 50-60 % compression that would expand to 1.6 -1.8 GB.

Exactly what I got.

> The Old Lady 24.sitx file is 2,126 MB

Same here. I haven't expanded it yet though.

>  If the instrument definition cannot find any of the audio files it 
> epects it
>  will report that when you try to load the piano. If it loads without 
> complaint,
>  the audio files are all there.

Mine loaded fine; found all the files without complaint.

Thanks for the confirmation. It's odd that the initial figures were an 
error, considering they came from Michael Post himself. Maybe he was 
confusing it with one of the other formats??



--------
Eli Krantzberg
http://www.nightshiftorchestra.com
Almat Productions



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> From: Murray McDowall <murraymc@...>
> Reply-To: <exs-users@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:50:49 +1100
> To: <exs-users@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [EXS] OLD LADY
> 
> 
> At 08:41 PM 12/13/04 -0500, you wrote:
> 
>> 
>> No. I was expecting 2.8 gigs, but only ended up with 1.8.1 gigs. Here
>> is that original quote from Michael Post again:
>> 
>>>  The
>>>  library is 2.8 GB in 16 bit and around 4.4 GB in 24 bits so it is one
>>>  of the "larger" piano libraries.
> 
> 
> I think that 2.8 figure is an error. The file "Old Lady EXS16.sitx" is 778MB
> on
> my disk. Assuming ~ 50-60 % compression that would expand to 1.6 -1.8 GB. I
> doubt whether 2.8GB of files could be compressed by current methods  to 778MB
> without loss. The Old Lady 24.sitx file is 2,126 MB and it expands by a
> similar
> factor after installation.
> 
> If the instrument definition cannot find any of the audio files it epects it
> will report that when you try to load the piano. If it loads without
> complaint,
> the audio files are all there.
> 
> Regards,
> Murray


Hi guys,
Been using the Old Lady for several months now.  The Old Lady 16 bit folder
on my drive is 1.79 gig with no missing notes.  The 24 bit folder (including
Irs, etc.) is 3.55 gig, also working fine.

James

While we are on this subject, I just did a test on memory load with the two
different versions of Old Lady -16 and 24 bit. I noticed that the memory
load in WinXP is identical with these two versions. I was a little
surprised but then I thought this was likely due to the fact that I have 32
bit sample loading checked in the prefs. 

I tried turning that back to "Original" - which i expected would load the
front end of each file in 24 bit format for the 24 bit version and 16 bit
format for the 16 bit version of Old Lady. Result - same memory hit for
each version with or without "32 Bit Float" format checked. 

This suggests either that:

A) the "32 Bit Float"/"Original" switch has no effect when Virtual Memory
(sample streaming) is working and/or 
B) that the buffering of each file is a fixed number of bytes - whatever
the format - so if the number of files in the instrument is the same,  the
memory load of buffering them will be identical. 

Regards,
Murray

On 14/12/2004, at 11:52 AM, Eli Krantzberg wrote:

>  can no longer get audio
>  and have to shutdown the whole computer and reboot. Granted, I am 
> using
>  the shitty Digidesign Core Audio drivers in OS X with my Digi 001, but
>  still; this hasn't happened before. Is it possible this symptom is
>  related to the Old Lady.

Eli,

I'm also using a Digi 001 with the 24 bit version of the Old Lady and 
haven't had any probs. A while ago, though, I was experiencing problems 
because the Core Audio driver wasn't compatible with my operating 
system (10.3.5). After updating the driver from the Digi site the 
problems vanished. Worth a try?

Andris

>Subject: Re: OLD LADY
>
>While we are on this subject, I just did a test on memory load with the two
>different versions of Old Lady -16 and 24 bit


Is there any difference between the 16 and 24 bit version besides the bit 
resolution?

Can you actually HEAR  that ?     Or notice  it somehow when playing the 
piano?

Or dont I miss much when I only would use the 16 bit version and save som HD 
space?

And :  does anyone would like to spend a few words on describinbg the 
difference between  the OLD LADY  and the EMPEROR
(and maybe also the PMI Bosendorfer290 ?)

Thanks and greetings!

On Dec 13, 2004, at 10:48 PM, James Ryan wrote:


>  Hi guys,
>  Been using the Old Lady for several months now.  The Old Lady 16 bit 
> folder
>  on my drive is 1.79 gig with no missing notes.  The 24 bit folder 
> (including
>  Irs, etc.) is 3.55 gig, also working fine.
>

Hi James,

Thanks for confirming.


------
Eli Krantzberg
http://www.nightshiftorchestra.com
Almat Productions

On Dec 14, 2004, at 2:40 AM, Andris Sice wrote:

>  I'm also using a Digi 001 with the 24 bit version of the Old Lady and
>  haven't had any probs. A while ago, though, I was experiencing 
> problems
>  because the Core Audio driver wasn't compatible with my operating
>  system (10.3.5). After updating the driver from the Digi site the
>  problems vanished. Worth a try?

Hi Andris,

I'm still on OS 10.3.4 and after trying several versions had settled on 
the old Digi driver v.6.1.2 as the least unstable. I guess it looks 
like time to do the driver dance again :-(( Thanks for confirming 
though. It seems then that it is something in my setup.



--------
Eli Krantzberg
http://www.nightshiftorchestra.com
Almat Productions

> 
> Is there any difference between the 16 and 24 bit version besides the bit
> resolution?
> 
> Can you actually HEAR  that ?     Or notice  it somehow when playing the
> piano?
> 
> Or dont I miss much when I only would use the 16 bit version and save som HD
> space?

The 24 bit version has a slightly more sparkly sound, a little brighter and
clearer, maybe a little more transparent....with an oaky bouquet.

:)

James