EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

I recently got a Yamaha DTXplorer drumset and start mapping it to  
some drum samples I have.

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HiHat, hit open -> close pedal

I know this:
Hitting the open hihat sends note A#1.
Stepping on the pedal sends CC4 56, then CC4 127 and then note G#1.

How do I cut the "open hihat" sound if I step on the pedal?

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Hihat, half closed

The DTXplorer can play a "half closed" hihat if the pedal is at a  
value within 0-22. But I do not see a triggered note for that, just  
the same note as for open hihat and the control change. It seems to  
be an internal feature of the device. Should be possible to handle  
that in the environment but I cannot do anything about that in EXS,  
right?

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Hihat, splash

The DTXplorer can play a "splash" sound if the pedal gets pressed and  
released in a certain way. Here is what I see in the MIDI stream:
Note G#1, velocity 110 (pedal down sound).
CC4, 127 (pedal fully down).
Note C#5, velocity 110 (splash sound).
CC4, 62 (pedal moving up).
CC4, 0 (pedal released).
Note G#1, OFF.
Note C#5, OFF.

That looks like if the device reacts to some sort of timing or a  
certain sequence of messages and that is not available via MIDI in  
Logic, right?

___
Peter Ostry

From: Peter Ostry <po@...>:

>  I recently got a Yamaha DTXplorer drumset and started mapping it to
>  some drum samples I have.

>  HiHat, hit open -> close pedal

>  I know this: Hitting the open hihat sends note A#1.
>  Stepping on the pedal sends CC4 56, then CC4 127 and then note G#1.
>  How do I cut the "open hihat" sound if I step on the pedal?

>  Hihat, half closed

>  The DTXplorer can play a "half closed" hihat if the pedal is at a value
>  within 0-22. But I do not see a triggered note for that, just the same
>  note as for open hihat and the control change. It seems to be an internal
>  feature of the device. Should be possible to handle that in the
>  Environment but I cannot do anything about that in EXS, right?

Hi Pete -

In EXS you could assign a closed hihat sample and a separate 
half-closed hihat sample to different Groups on the same note, and 
set the Groups to crossfade in response to different ranges of CC4, 
so opening the pedal fades between the closed hat to the half-closed 
hat sound. You can also use this technique to make the 
closed-hihat/pedal-hihat cut off any open hihat sounds - you could 
have two or three hihats (Closed/Half/Open)on the same note 
(apparently G#1 in the DTX) all crossfading in response to different 
ranges of the CC. *However* in Logic 7.1 they have some odd CC 
re-mapping in effect automatically when CC4 is used for this purpose, 
so you should re-map CC4 to some other controller # on the way in and 
use that in the EXS patch..

>  Hihat, splash

>  The DTXplorer can play a "splash" sound if the pedal gets pressed and
>  released in a certain way. Here is what I see in the MIDI stream:

>  Note G#1 velocity 110 (pedal down sound)
>  CC4               127 (pedal fully down)
>  Note C#5 velocity 110 (splash sound)
>  CC4                62 (pedal moving up)
>  CC4                 0 (pedal released)
>  Note G#1          OFF
>  Note C#5          OFF

>  That looks like if the device reacts to some sort of timing or a certain
>  sequence of messages and that is not available via MIDI in Logic, right?

Yes, I'm not clear on the exact timing of the Note-Ons and Note-Offs 
from the list above, but it does look like the Note-Off messages 
could be on an internally-timed release - perhaps there's a setting 
for that in the DTX? Is the Splash sound (C#5?) triggered at higher 
pedal velocities and the regular Foot-Closing sound (G#1?) triggered 
at lower pedal velocities?

Let me know if you decide to try the EXS Group-crossfade setup, I 
could describe it in a little more detail if I have Logic open..

Btw, there have been a number of threads on this topic (hihats in 
EXS) - you might want to search the archive, there should be quite a 
few posts..

-- 
Cheers, Joe Albano
ROOFTOP PRODUCTIONS NYC NY
Music Production  : http://www.rooftopproductions.com
Freelance/Consult : http://www.rooftopproductions.com/Consulting.html

>> From: Peter Ostry <po@...>:
>>  I recently got a Yamaha DTXplorer drumset and started mapping it to
>>  some drum samples I have.
>> ...
>>  HiHat, hit open -> close pedal
>> ...
>>  I know this: Hitting the open hihat sends note A#1.
>>  Stepping on the pedal sends CC4 56, then CC4 127 and then note G#1.
>>  How do I cut the "open hihat" sound if I step on the pedal?
>> ...
>>  Hihat, half closed
>>  The DTXplorer can play a "half closed" hihat if the pedal is at a  
>> value
>>  within 0-22. But I do not see a triggered note for that, ...
>
> On 19.09.2005, at 17:10, Joe Albano wrote:
> In EXS you could assign a closed hihat sample and a separate
> half-closed hihat sample to different Groups on the same note, and
> set the Groups to crossfade in response to different ranges of CC4,
> so opening the pedal fades between the closed hat to the half-closed
> hat sound.

Thank you, after reading your explanations and some other threads  
here I think I understand the concept more or less.

But if I assign overlapping CC ranges to groups, the "crossfade" is  
not a true one. It just plays both samples within the overlapping  
range. Not bad though and with the appropriate setting in the main  
window of the EXS it might get smoother. But I ran also into the  
known problem with polyphony when I cut the open hihat sound with the  
"pedal down" sound. Allowing just one voice for the open hihat  
doesn't sound good.

For what I play (I am everything else than a drummer) I need 4 voices  
for the open hihat. So I thought if I could trigger 4 silent samples  
at once the EXS group must run out of voices and be silent. And that  
worked :-)


> You can also use this technique to make the
> closed-hihat/pedal-hihat cut off any open hihat sounds - you could
> have two or three hihats (Closed/Half/Open)on the same note
> (apparently G#1 in the DTX) all crossfading in response to different
> ranges of the CC.

Maybe I still don't understand the "crossfade" issue, but I could not  
get that working and tried a different approach via the environment  
(I am more used to that than to the sampler):

In the EXS I put an open hihat sample at A#1 (comes from the drumset)  
for velocity 2-127 and additionally 4 silent samples which react only  
to velocity 1. The group "open hihat" is set to 4 voices. In the  
environment I catch CC4, the pedal. If it goes to 127 (fully down) I  
send an A#1 (open hihat) with velocity 1. That triggers all 4 silent  
samples and the EXS group shuts off.

And I added a half closed sample at B1 (does not come from the  
drumset). In the environment I extract pedal values between 56 and  
126. 56 is the only incoming value when I move the pedal down and 126  
is just not fully down. That sends also the "shut-up" message to the  
open hihat group and transposes incoming A#1 (open hihat) one  
semitone up to play the half open sound as long as the pedal is  
halfways down. Well, an open sound gets cut if I hit the open hihat  
and move the pedal slowly down but that is not a big issue for now.


> *However* in Logic 7.1 they have some odd CC
> re-mapping in effect automatically when CC4 is used for this purpose,
> so you should re-map CC4 ...

Never had a problem with that. What happens to your CC4?

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I am not sure if my first try is just a weird workaround for  
something I don't understand yet . But if the idea of choking a  
polyphonic open hihat with enough silent samples is helpful for  
anyone it makes at least some sense :-)

___
Peter Ostry