EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

The Garritan Personal Orchestra works with the Kontakt player and the  
descriptions recommends NOT to use the same instrument more than  
once, to be exact, not simultaneous. Instruments would have to play  
the same samples which is not possible.

How is that with EXS? If I have two percussion sets with different  
parts but using the same samples, may I run into a "sample-sharing"  
problem or is it different in EXS?

Example:
Set 1 - Bongos, Congas, Claves.
Set 2 - Tambourin, Chimes, Claves.

Ok, claves have very short sounds but in case two clave sounds which  
use the same sample play at the same time but on different tracks. Is  
that problem or not?

I ask because I'm reorganizing my samples with EXSmanager and wonder  
if I should select "complete sample set for each instrument" or  
"share samples as much as possible" for certain instruments like  
Wizoo Latin Percussion.

___
Peter Ostry

On 20/Nov / 2005, at 7:26 PM, Peter Ostry wrote:

> Ok, claves have very short sounds but in case two clave sounds which
> use the same sample play at the same time but on different tracks. Is
> that problem or not?
>
> I ask because I'm reorganizing my samples with EXSmanager and wonder
> if I should select "complete sample set for each instrument" or
> "share samples as much as possible" for certain instruments like
> Wizoo Latin Percussion.

Hi Peter,
sharing samples in Exs24 is *not* a problem, and actually a very good  
thing: you will spare disk space and RAM usage by sharing the sample  
for all instruments...

Best Regards
Andrea at Redmatica

On 20.11.2005, at 19:38, Andrea at Redmatica wrote:

> sharing samples in Exs24 is *not* a problem, and actually a very good
> thing: you will spare disk space and RAM usage by sharing the sample
> for all instruments...

Fine. Saved me 20 GB :-)
Thank you!

___
Peter Ostry



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 21/11/2005, at 5:26 AM, Peter Ostry wrote:

> The Garritan Personal Orchestra works with the Kontakt player and the
> descriptions recommends NOT to use the same instrument more than
> once, to be exact, not simultaneous. Instruments would have to play
> the same samples which is not possible.
>
> How is that with EXS? If I have two percussion sets with different
> parts but using the same samples, may I run into a "sample-sharing"
> problem or is it different in EXS?

Before the days of plugin delay compensation on all objects my  
favourite way of doing drums in EXS was to load the same multisampled  
kit into 4 -6 instances of EXS - some stereo, some mono. It was  
completely no problem and saved ram a lot and allowed separate  
processing of each sound without having to worry about PDC at all. So  
the answer is yes EXS shares the same samples very well.

I'm not sure weather if there were some used samples common between  
two different instruments that EXS would detect that and not use up  
the extra memory. I suspect it only works when loading the exact same  
instrument more than once.

Regards


:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Paul Najar
Jaminajar Music Production
www.jaminajar.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

on 11/20/05 10:26 AM, Peter Ostry at po@... wrote:

> The Garritan Personal Orchestra works with the Kontakt player and the
> descriptions recommends NOT to use the same instrument more than
> once, to be exact, not simultaneous. Instruments would have to play
> the same samples which is not possible.
> 
> 


I think the problem is not within the sampler, but rather how you use the
instruments in the mix. If two instruments are playing exactly the same
audio files, and if they are time-shifted a little, then you get
phase-cancellation artifacts. If the samples are played at the same time,
all that happens is an increase in volume. It's analogous to the phase
problems you sometimes get in using multiple mics to record a source, if
they're not set up properly.

I noticed this problem using two patches from the Garritan Orchestral
Strings, for example. If I had two tracks in the Arrange page with identical
sequences, one with an All Violins legato patch and the other with the first
violin legato, and one of these is slightly delayed relative to the other,
then I'd get phasing because the All Violins patch includes the identical
1st violin samples (along with the 2nd violin samples, which of course
wouldn't contribute to the phase cancellation because they're different
samples.) It would be important in this case to use only the all violin
sample or blend the 1st and 2nd violin patches.

Don

>> on 11/20/05 10:26 AM, Peter Ostry at po@... wrote:
>> The Garritan Personal Orchestra works with the Kontakt player and the
>> descriptions recommends NOT to use the same instrument more than
>> once, to be exact, not simultaneous. Instruments would have to play
>> the same samples which is not possible.
>
> On 20.11.2005, at 23:25, Don Newmeyer wrote:
> I think the problem is not within the sampler, but rather how you  
> use the
> instruments in the mix. If two instruments are playing exactly the  
> same
> audio files,...

No problem if each single instrument has it's own sample, which can  
be achieved with ExsManager if you use the "expand" option. Then you  
get a complete set of samples for each instrument. You need much more  
RAM and disc space of course.

According to Andrea's statement EXS handles that issue fine. I have  
not tested it yet but I simply believe him because he has written the  
ExsManager :-)

Btw, I like the concept of RealGuitar which is actually a sample  
player. You can select between 2 and 5 slightly different samples  
which are chosen randomly.


> I noticed this problem using two patches from the Garritan Orchestral
> Strings, for example. If I had two tracks in the Arrange page with  
> identical
> sequences, one with an All Violins legato patch and the other with  
> the first
> violin legato...

I don't remember an "all violins" setting right now but if you used  
all violins at once, let's say violin 1+2+3 and added violin #2 a  
second time that is the situation which the manual describes as "must  
not". The ensemble settings are for that. I find their sound a bit  
strange but since people make so wonderful tracks with GPO it must be  
a matter of usage.

___
Peter Ostry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>> On 20.11.2005, at 23:25, Don Newmeyer wrote:
>> I think the problem is not within the sampler, but rather how you
>> use the
>> instruments in the mix. If two instruments are playing exactly the
>> same
>> audio files,...
> 

Peter wrote:
> No problem if each single instrument has it's own sample, which can
> be achieved with ExsManager if you use the "expand" option. Then you
> get a complete set of samples for each instrument. You need much more
> RAM and disc space of course.
> 

That's what I said: the problem is not with EXS but how you use the
instruments in a mix.


>> I noticed this problem using two patches from the Garritan Orchestral
>> Strings, for example. If I had two tracks in the Arrange page with
>> identical
>> sequences, one with an All Violins legato patch and the other with
>> the first
>> violin legato...
> 
> I don't remember an "all violins" setting right now but if you used
> all violins at once, let's say violin 1+2+3 and added violin #2 a
> second time that is the situation which the manual describes as "must
> not". The ensemble settings are for that. I find their sound a bit
> strange but since people make so wonderful tracks with GPO it must be
> a matter of usage.

My example was from the Garritan Orchestral Strings (GOS) library, not GPO.
The "All Violins" patch really includes the samples from both the first and
second violin sections.

I've never really understood how they get the ensemble building approach in
GPO to work (and it seems to, at least in the examples they give), because
in my experience mixing multiple tracks of solo instruments does not give
the same sound as a sampled orchestral section. Perhaps the only way to do
it properly would be to set up all the chairs and have the players sit at
different chairs for each recording while leaving the mics fixed. I don't
think close miking each take from the same distance would give a realistic
section sound. 

Don

On 21.11.2005, at 14:16, Don Newmeyer wrote:

> I've never really understood how they get the ensemble building  
> approach in
> GPO to work (and it seems to, at least in the examples they give),  
> because
> in my experience mixing multiple tracks of solo instruments does  
> not give
> the same sound as a sampled orchestral section. Perhaps the only  
> way to do
> it properly would be to set up all the chairs and have the players  
> sit at
> different chairs for each recording while leaving the mics fixed. I  
> don't
> think close miking each take from the same distance would give a  
> realistic
> section sound.

I think they miked a section from some distance. The "Ensemble"  
sounds are rather thin compared to the others, that's why I believe  
they didn't use close miking. I cannot get that working too, but I  
have no experience with orchestral music so it is most likely a  
matter of understanding and usage.

___
Peter Ostry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- Andrea at Redmatica <agoz@...> skrev:


---------------------------------

On 20/Nov / 2005, at 7:26 PM, Peter Ostry wrote:

> Ok, claves have very short sounds but in case two
clave sounds which
> use the same sample play at the same time but on
different tracks. Is
> that problem or not?
>
> I ask because I'm reorganizing my samples with
EXSmanager and wonder
> if I should select "complete sample set for each
instrument" or
> "share samples as much as possible" for certain
instruments like
> Wizoo Latin Percussion.

Hi Peter,
sharing samples in Exs24 is *not* a problem, and
actually a very good  
thing: you will spare disk space and RAM usage by
sharing the sample  
for all instruments...

Best Regards
Andrea at Redmatica




Hi Andrea,

Can you please send me my registration number som I