EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

Message posted by David Pelletier <studiopelletier@...>:

Hi. I am the banleader and bassist of Cirque du Soleil's Alegria. We are
using Logic Pro on stage with mainly the EXS24. 

On my station (Powermac G5 Dual 2 GHz, 4 GB ram (8 X 512MB), OS 10.3.9,
Logic Pro 6.4.3, M-Audio Firewire 410, driver 1.5), I use the EXS24 to trig
long audio files that we call "sequences" with a Roland PK-5 bass pedal. In
many cases these audio files are layered and use different outputs via
groups/AUX, and vary from a few seconds to up to 7 minutes, depending on the
songs. 

The whole show is loaded in one Logic song. I have about 15 EXS24 loaded, so
15 tracks in the arrange. Activity Monitor reports that about 2.2 GB are
used on the 4 GB available. No virtual memory (streaming) is used. 

This system has worked flawlessly for 692 shows to this date (which
represents about two years of shows). But in the past 3 weeks I've had 3
glitches (in about 30 shows), more like stuttering in fact. Audio drops out
in the middle of the file playback, stutters a bit, and comes back on as if
nothing happened, but when it happens I have to stop and retrig, because the
time goes off. So it's really a stuttering and not just a sound drop out.
Glitches are random, never in the same file playback. 

I have 2 theories, one being the audio interface acting up (but that
wouldn't explain the stuttering i think), and the other would be ram slowly
going bad (but then i would likely get a kernel panic...) 

Any ideas? It's very hard to trouble shoot this one...

On Dec 19, 2006, at 7:00 PM, David Pelletier wrote:

> Message posted by David Pelletier <studiopelletier@...>:
>
> Hi. I am the banleader and bassist of Cirque du Soleil's Alegria.  
> We are
> using Logic Pro on stage with mainly the EXS24.
>
> On my station (Powermac G5 Dual 2 GHz, 4 GB ram (8 X 512MB), OS  
> 10.3.9,
> Logic Pro 6.4.3, M-Audio Firewire 410, driver 1.5), I use the EXS24  
> to trig
> long audio files that we call "sequences" with a Roland PK-5 bass  
> pedal. In
> many cases these audio files are layered and use different outputs via
> groups/AUX, and vary from a few seconds to up to 7 minutes,  
> depending on the
> songs.
>
> The whole show is loaded in one Logic song. I have about 15 EXS24  
> loaded, so
> 15 tracks in the arrange. Activity Monitor reports that about 2.2  
> GB are
> used on the 4 GB available. No virtual memory (streaming) is used.
>
> This system has worked flawlessly for 692 shows to this date (which
> represents about two years of shows). But in the past 3 weeks I've  
> had 3
> glitches (in about 30 shows), more like stuttering in fact. Audio  
> drops out
> in the middle of the file playback, stutters a bit, and comes back  
> on as if
> nothing happened, but when it happens I have to stop and retrig,  
> because the
> time goes off. So it's really a stuttering and not just a sound  
> drop out.
> Glitches are random, never in the same file playback.
>
> I have 2 theories, one being the audio interface acting up (but that
> wouldn't explain the stuttering i think), and the other would be  
> ram slowly
> going bad (but then i would likely get a kernel panic...)
>
> Any ideas? It's very hard to trouble shoot this one...


actually your issue maybe be related to hard drive fragmentation.  
even though os x is "supposed to" do some low level defraging. try  
tech tool pro, but make sure you back everything up first

good luck

val

Message posted by David Pelletier <studiopelletier@...>:

Well, as i said, the ESX is not streaming. Everything is loaded into the ram. We do not use virtual memory. And the last time the stuttering occured, it was a two show day and it happened in the 2nd show. The file played fine in the first show.

We do have Techtool, so i will run it anyways. Everything is fully backed up on a spare G5, and that G5 is cloned on a LaCie drive. I will also test the ram with Rember. 

I still think it's a ram/bus or audio interface problem. 

One thing though that has crossed my mind...the Logic song that contains all the samplers was created in Logic 7, and used in Logic 6.4.3 in the show. We do get that nagging message saying to upgrade to Logic 7 because it could cause problems everytime we open the song.

David Pelletier wrote:

>Message posted by David Pelletier <studiopelletier@...>:
>
>Well, as i said, the ESX is not streaming. Everything is loaded into the ram. We do not use virtual memory. And the last time the stuttering occured, it was a two show day and it happened in the 2nd show. The file played fine in the first show.
>
>We do have Techtool, so i will run it anyways. Everything is fully backed up on a spare G5, and that G5 is cloned on a LaCie drive. I will also test the ram with Rember. 
>
>I still think it's a ram/bus or audio interface problem. 
>
>One thing though that has crossed my mind...the Logic song that contains all the samplers was created in Logic 7, and used in Logic 6.4.3 in the show. We do get that nagging message saying to upgrade to Logic 7 because it could cause problems everytime we open the song.




Cover all your basses Dave. I'd do the upgrade to 7 right away......Bobby D.

Hi,

On 20-Dec-06, at 8:39 PM, BOBBY DOUGLAS wrote:

>
> Cover all your basses Dave. I'd do the upgrade to 7 right 
> away......Bobby D.
>

While not a bad suggestion, I'd take this one as more of a last resort. 
  The problem may go away and may not.  By introducing a new software 
version, you add another variable.  It used to work flawlessly on Logic 
6.4.3, even though the song was created in 7.  Things in computerland 
don't just appear randomly out of the blue when nothing is changed.  
When I troubleshoot, I always ask the question "what's changed and 
when?".  I've had problems where I've begun installing new versions of 
things and it made things worse by me not knowing what fixed what.  
When I have important shows/sessions that I can't afford to have 
anything go down, I lock my system down.  No software updates, no 
nothing.  I only make a change when I know that that it will fix a 
problem.

Anyhow, Dave since the spare G5 is cloned, does that one stutter?  Have 
you tried it?  I would suggest trying it.  If it doesn't stutter then 
you may be onto something with the hardware side of things.   If it 
does, is there something external to the computer that could 
potentially cause a problem (audio interface, midi interface, etc.)?

In the long-term I think that upgrading to Logic 7 is probably a good 
idea but one that is best done when you have time to plan for and test. 
  Best of luck.

Fernstudio

Message posted by David Pelletier <studiopelletier@...>:

Thanks guys. 

Yes i thought about using the spare G5 for a while. I will do that next city. I'm on vacation right now. 

The thing that makes it very hard to troubleshoot is that the stuttering may not appear for another 6 months. It's a totally random thing and never happens in the same files.

Message posted by Roberto Pollo <rpollo@...>:

Hi guys !


As a long time exs user (since logic 4...) I really believe it to be driver related.
Personally I don't trust much in m-audio drivers, they are not bad but not good so.
I'd suggest trying another interface.

My Rme fireface 400 have been very reliable as had my last motu 828.
I have been doing major gigs for the last 5 years (sine logic and OS9) using exs without stutters.


the only problem I'm having is drop outs, mainly using a multi gigabyte piano live when I play lots of notes and sustain pedal.
seems to be bad implementation of exs streaming. The bandwidth in fine (firewire 800, raid 7200 drives and 2gb ram !)

currently on logic 7.2.3 macbook pro 17 core 2, 2gb ram, streaming from a lacie little big (7200rpm) over firewire 800...

I had this issue in my last powerbook 1.67, 1.5gb ram, streaming from a lacie little big (5400rpm) over firewire 800 too.

any thoghts?