EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

Anyway to get a grooup buy for the Redmatica products?

-Dan

Message posted by guy lewis <guypersonal@...>:

Im up for this.. great idea, surely they would be interested if we got enough people together. Their full package isnt in the budget price bracket for sure....

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "guy lewis" <forums@...> wrote:
>
> Message posted by guy lewis <guypersonal@...>:
> 
> Im up for this.. great idea, surely they would be interested if we
got enough people together. Their full package isnt in the budget
price bracket for sure....
>

Thats what I was thinking....they charge a lot for the "full" package,
so why not get everyone on here who doesnt have it yet, to get it for
a good price. I would say everyone would win in this case. I am 100%
for it, who else is? I could also go to a forum that I am regular on
and ask it on there to any Logic users, then we could ask Redmatica
the price and get it going. Let me know if anyone wants to help
organize this because Im not sure how to do this properly.

-Dan

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "superdan139" <superdan139@...> wrote:
Let me know if anyone wants to help
> organize this because Im not sure how to do this properly.
> 
> -Dan
>

I dont think its that hard, we need to publicise this idea and mail redmatica the links to the 
'yes' postings here and elsewhere. I would guess if Redmatica were interested, they would 
probably want something from it to, as in, they would be offering only their full package, not 
a discount on their new Keymap One 1.5 which Im sure the intention with that is to open up 
the market lower down to their products. Once agreed, a discount coupon might be the way 
they would offer the package, and off we go :O)

What other forums would you have in mind Dan?

Guy

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "guy lewis" <guypersonal@...> wrote:
>
> --- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "superdan139" <superdan139@> wrote:
> Let me know if anyone wants to help
> > organize this because Im not sure how to do this properly.
> > 
> > -Dan
> >
> 
> I dont think its that hard, we need to publicise this idea and mail
redmatica the links to the 
> 'yes' postings here and elsewhere. I would guess if Redmatica were
interested, they would 
> probably want something from it to, as in, they would be offering
only their full package, not 
> a discount on their new Keymap One 1.5 which Im sure the intention
with that is to open up 
> the market lower down to their products. Once agreed, a discount
coupon might be the way 
> they would offer the package, and off we go :O)
> 
> What other forums would you have in mind Dan?
> 
> Guy
>

wwwGearSlutz.com, www.TapeOp.com and DOA (www.DogsOnAcid.com)

Any other ones would be great, but I go on those the most. I think the
"full" package is what we should def try to go for. Maybe get it in
the $200-275 area. I would jump on that quick and im sure many others
would. Let me know what you come up with.

-Dan

At 01:45 AM 10/11/2007, you wrote:

>--- In 
><mailto:exs-users%40yahoogroups.com>exs-users@yahoogroups.com, 
>"superdan139" <superdan139@...> wrote:
>Let me know if anyone wants to help
> > organize this because Im not sure how to do this properly.
> >
> > -Dan
> >
>
>I dont think its that hard, we need to publicise this idea and mail 
>redmatica the links to the
>'yes' postings here and elsewhere. I would guess if Redmatica were 
>interested, they would
>probably want something from it to, as in, they would be offering 
>only their full package, not
>a discount on their new Keymap One 1.5 which Im sure the intention 
>with that is to open up
>the market lower down to their products. Once agreed, a discount 
>coupon might be the way
>they would offer the package, and off we go :O)

I think a group buy would have to include individual options for 
Keymap and Autosampler, since a large percentage of serious EXS users 
already have EXS Manager.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

there was a group buy in 2003 , but with their new products this is a  
great idea..

talk to jeremy martin

webmaster@...

he's the one that organises all the group buys on the LUG

L

Posted by: "superdan139" superdan139@...   superdan139
Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:06 am (PST)

> Anyway to get a grooup buy for the Redmatica products?

Aw, just buy it, Dan. Keymap is less than $300, and there simply  
isn't anything like it on the planet.

Group software buys are good in the short term, but a developer  
friend of mine likens them to fishing with dynamite: sure you catch a  
lot of fish, but then the reef is ruined forever - as we see here by  
your request (i.e. nobody wants to pay a fair price for anything  
anymore). This works two ways, of course - you get a good deal, but  
then the developer can't afford to come out with anything else.


Nick Batzdorf, editor/publisher
Virtual Instruments Magazine
www.Virtualinstrumentsmag.com
1-877 VImagzn (846-2496)
+1818/905-9101, cell 590-9101




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Oct ,11, 2007, at 7:27 PM, Nick Batzdorf wrote:

> Group software buys are good in the short term, but a developer
> friend of mine likens them to fishing with dynamite: sure you catch a
> lot of fish, but then the reef is ruined forever - as we see here by
> your request (i.e. nobody wants to pay a fair price for anything
> anymore). This works two ways, of course - you get a good deal, but
> then the developer can't afford to come out with anything else.

You know, the other thing that strikes me as odd about a potential  
group buy of Redmatica products on the EXS List is that this isn't a  
subset of his total potential clients; it's all of his potential  
clients. The _ONLY_ people who can buy Redmatica products are Logic/ 
EXS 24 users. It's not like this group buy would attract different or  
new customers for him. It's basically just asking him to discount the  
products.  It's kind of like asking a heroin dealer to give a group  
discount to heroin users. Who the hell is going to buy anyway except  
heroin users in the first place! :-)

Having said that though - I think I did originally buy EXS Manager  
through the LUG group buy many years ago......


--------
Eli Krantzberg
http://www.elikrantzberg.com
http://www.nightshiftorchestra.com








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Apple should just write Redmatica a big fat check and put the suite of 
products in future versions of Logic.
Redmatica has done more for EXS functionality than Apple has.

Dave



Eli Krantzberg wrote:

>
>
> On Oct ,11, 2007, at 7:27 PM, Nick Batzdorf wrote:
>
> > Group software buys are good in the short term, but a developer
> > friend of mine likens them to fishing with dynamite: sure you catch a
> > lot of fish, but then the reef is ruined forever - as we see here by
> > your request (i.e. nobody wants to pay a fair price for anything
> > anymore). This works two ways, of course - you get a good deal, but
> > then the developer can't afford to come out with anything else.
>
> You know, the other thing that strikes me as odd about a potential
> group buy of Redmatica products on the EXS List is that this isn't a
> subset of his total potential clients; it's all of his potential
> clients. The _ONLY_ people who can buy Redmatica products are Logic/
> EXS 24 users. It's not like this group buy would attract different or
> new customers for him. It's basically just asking him to discount the
> products. It's kind of like asking a heroin dealer to give a group
> discount to heroin users. Who the hell is going to buy anyway except
> heroin users in the first place! :-)
>
> Having said that though - I think I did originally buy EXS Manager
> through the LUG group buy many years ago......
>
> --------
> Eli Krantzberg
> http://www.elikrantzberg.com <http://www.elikrantzberg.com>
> http://www.nightshiftorchestra.com <http://www.nightshiftorchestra.com>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

On Oct ,11, 2007, at 8:13 PM, amgshaffer wrote:

> Apple should just write Redmatica a big fat check and put the suite of
> products in future versions of Logic.
> Redmatica has done more for EXS functionality than Apple has.

Amen to that.....


--------
Eli Krantzberg
http://www.elikrantzberg.com
http://www.nightshiftorchestra.com








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

amgshaffer wrote:

> Apple should just write Redmatica a big fat check and put the suite of
> products in future versions of Logic.
> Redmatica has done more for EXS functionality than Apple has.

Agreed 100%...

Best,

Andy

> 
> wwwGearSlutz.com, www.TapeOp.com and DOA (www.DogsOnAcid.com)
> 
> Any other ones would be great, but I go on those the most. I think the
> "full" package is what we should def try to go for. Maybe get it in
> the $200-275 area. I would jump on that quick and im sure many others
> would. Let me know what you come up with.
> 
> -Dan
>

OK Dan,

Hey you guys, interesting thoughts, here's mine, Redmatica could see this as an 
opportunity to gain market dominance, as a product manager myself, gaining a majority 
share in a market with a great deal like that means investment for product development 
which then gets revenues again from upgrades. The more units sold the more people are 
gonna buy the upgrade ans buy all those other lovely products youve got in mind but cant 
fund right now..

..and of course, having market dominance means that you look real pretty to Apple if they 
come along looking to buy :O)    !!!!!!!!!!

On Oct ,11, 2007, at 7:27 PM, Nick Batzdorf wrote:

 > Group software buys are good in the short term, but a developer
 > friend of mine likens them to fishing with dynamite: sure you catch a
 > lot of fish, but then the reef is ruined forever - as we see here by
 > your request (i.e. nobody wants to pay a fair price for anything
 > anymore). This works two ways, of course - you get a good deal, but
 > then the developer can't afford to come out with anything else.

Posted by: "Eli Krantzberg" elik@...   elikca
Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:48 pm (PST)

> You know, the other thing that strikes me as odd about a potential
> group buy of Redmatica products on the EXS List is that this isn't a
> subset of his total potential clients; it's all of his potential
> clients. The _ONLY_ people who can buy Redmatica products are Logic/
> EXS 24 users.

EXSManager, yes, but Keymap and AutoSampler create programs that any  
other sampler can import. Ashif "King Idiot" Hakik, who reviewed  
Keymap for us and programs for Eastwest and other developers - who  
don't do EXS - bought a MBP just to run Keymap.

This was his comment: "Developers take note: you have no real reason  
to release substandard products from here on out."



Nick Batzdorf, editor/publisher
Virtual Instruments Magazine
www.Virtualinstrumentsmag.com
1-877 VImagzn (846-2496)
+1818/905-9101, cell 590-9101

Posted by: "Eli Krantzberg" elik@...   elikca
> Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:54 am (PST)
>
>
> On Oct ,11, 2007, at 8:13 PM, amgshaffer wrote:
>
> > Apple should just write Redmatica a big fat check and put the  
> suite of
> > products in future versions of Logic.
> > Redmatica has done more for EXS functionality than Apple has.
>
> Amen to that.....
>

And then they should reduce the price of Logic Studio to $250 and  
eliminate all independent development for good...

:)



Nick Batzdorf, editor/publisher
Virtual Instruments Magazine
www.Virtualinstrumentsmag.com
1-877 VImagzn (846-2496)
+1818/905-9101, cell 590-9101




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> 
> wwwGearSlutz.com, www.TapeOp.com and DOA (www.DogsOnAcid.com)
> 
> Any other ones would be great, but I go on those the most. I think the
> "full" package is what we should def try to go for. Maybe get it in
> the $200-275 area. I would jump on that quick and im sure many others
> would. Let me know what you come up with.
> 


Dan, the guy mentioned on this forum that has previously organised groups buys needs to 
be contacted about this so Ive done that.

community.sonikmatter.com
www.logicuser.de
studio-central.com
http://www.macmusic.org/  ( http://en.440forums.com/forums/?
showforum=65&lang=en&s=1640e4a340bb96b396b2bf1069fa95c2 )

Guy

> Apple should just write Redmatica a big fat check and put the suite of
> products in future versions of Logic.
> Redmatica has done more for EXS functionality than Apple has.

Or maybe a Gulfstream V in lieu of payment,  like thy did for Steve a  
few years back.... Ok, maybe not a Gulfstream, but a SAAB 340.
Anyway, I agree with Nick Batzdorf about trashin' the reef. I too  
bought EXS manager in a group buy a few years back, but that was when  
Andrea was really entering the market. Redmatika is a respectable,  
established company now, that doesn't need to prove itself.
Best Regards,
Matt


Audio - Music - Post Production
Web: mattrixx.net  -  Australia 0416 197 883
Snail Mail: PO Box 10395, Adelaide, South Australia. 5000
iCHATav: mattrixx@...
Email: matt@...









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> On Oct 12, 2007, at 10:32 AM, Nick Batzdorf wrote:

> EXSManager, yes, but Keymap and AutoSampler create programs that any
> other sampler can import. Ashif "King Idiot" Hakik, who reviewed
> Keymap for us and programs for Eastwest and other developers - who
> don't do EXS - bought a MBP just to run Keymap.
>
> This was his comment: "Developers take note: you have no real reason
> to release substandard products from here on out."


Hmmm .. this is an interesting statement, even though it is quite vague.

Who is it that determines what the "standard" is? Must we have 20  
velocity layers, round robins, close and room mic positions in every  
bank now? (Just playing devils advocate here ;))

There are problems/details in the process of sampling that no matter  
what software you are using that are not easily solved - like  
recording quality samples to start with, EQ adjustments (which  
requires good ears), dealing with the quirks of whatever instrument  
your are trying to sample, the list goes on and on.

Also remember as far as importing instruments made from Keymap to  
other plaforms - it all depends on how well the *other* platform can  
import EXS data. This is something that is totally out of the hands  
of the folks at Redmatica, unless at some point they decide to  
support a direct save to other formats.

BTW .. I'm not in any way knocking Keymap. It is a fantastic piece of  
software, and the support from Andrea is nothing short of amazing.  
And if you are thinking the price tag of Keymap is a bit too high, it  
is easily made up for in the tech support area!

Dennis @ Bolder

I have no idea what the response (below) means, but I am not sure how it 
is at all responsive to my point that Apple buy EXS functionality (it 
isn't exactly rare...e.g., Cover Flow).  I also don't know what you mean 
that Redmatica "doesn't have to prove itself."  Who was suggesting it 
does?  And what does that have to do with Apple?  I was acknowledging 
that Redmatica has good products and has stayed in front of the EXS 
curve better than Apple has (does anyone disagree with that?)

As for Nick's point on price, I don't get that either.  Does price 
always go up when functionality is added to software? (not often).  The 
issue for Apple is cost:  does it cost more to develop functionality 
internally or buy it externally? 

Of course, this all depends on whether Redmatica would like to partner 
with Apple in such a way.  If so, then Apple should write Redmatica a 
check and be done with it! 

Dave



Matt McKenzie-Smith wrote:

>
> > Apple should just write Redmatica a big fat check and put the suite of
> > products in future versions of Logic.
> > Redmatica has done more for EXS functionality than Apple has.
>
> Or maybe a Gulfstream V in lieu of payment, like thy did for Steve a
> few years back.... Ok, maybe not a Gulfstream, but a SAAB 340.
> Anyway, I agree with Nick Batzdorf about trashin' the reef. I too
> bought EXS manager in a group buy a few years back, but that was when
> Andrea was really entering the market. Redmatika is a respectable,
> established company now, that doesn't need to prove itself.
> Best Regards,
> Matt
>
> Audio - Music - Post Production
> Web: mattrixx.net - Australia 0416 197 883
> Snail Mail: PO Box 10395, Adelaide, South Australia. 5000
> iCHATav: mattrixx@... <mailto:mattrixx%40mac.com>
> Email: matt@... <mailto:matt%40mattrixx.net>
>
> \ufffc
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

Message posted by guy lewis <guypersonal@...>:

... so how many yes's is that so far :-)

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "guy lewis" <forums@...> wrote:
>
> Message posted by guy lewis <guypersonal@...>:
> 
> ... so how many yes's is that so far :-)
>
I'm 100% in as long as its under $300 for the "full" package.

-Dan

> On Oct 12, 2007, at 10:32 AM, Nick Batzdorf wrote:

 > EXSManager, yes, but Keymap and AutoSampler create programs that any
 > other sampler can import. Ashif "King Idiot" Hakik, who reviewed
 > Keymap for us and programs for Eastwest and other developers - who
 > don't do EXS - bought a MBP just to run Keymap.
 >
 > This was his comment: "Developers take note: you have no real reason
 > to release substandard products from here on out."

Posted by: "Dennis Burns" dennis@...   boldersounds2003

> Hmmm .. this is an interesting statement, even though it is quite  
> vague.
>
> Who is it that determines what the "standard" is? Must we have 20
> velocity layers, round robins, close and room mic positions in every
> bank now? (Just playing devils advocate here ;))

Well, the "standard" is what musicians have come to expect from a  
modern sample library based on what's being offered these days.

But I actually think Ash's comment is precise, Dennis. His point is  
that when the features you list and other advanced ones are  
appropriate, this program makes it so easy that there's no excuse for  
not providing them.

And yes, we must have those things in every bank now! (Not literally,  
but you understand what I'm saying.)


> There are problems/details in the process of sampling that no matter
> what software you are using that are not easily solved - like
> recording quality samples to start with, EQ adjustments (which
> requires good ears), dealing with the quirks of whatever instrument
> your are trying to sample, the list goes on and on.

Absolutely, but I think that's a different subject.

> Also remember as far as importing instruments made from Keymap to
> other plaforms - it all depends on how well the *other* platform can
> import EXS data. This is something that is totally out of the hands
> of the folks at Redmatica, unless at some point they decide to
> support a direct save to other formats.

The programming Keymap produces should import into all the other  
samplers no problem. This is what he says:

"Use Keymap with Kontakt, Structure, MachFive and Halion.
Everything you do in Keymap is realtime and non-destructive. When you  
are satisfied of your sounds, you just export them as industry  
standard AIFF or WAV sample files, which you can then use in any  
audio application. Each new sample created by Keymap contains both  
Mapping and Looping data in order to enable the fastest imports in  
supporting 3rd party audio applications. The EXS24 instrument format  
is the most supported in the industry and allows you to use   
instruments created in Keymap with Kontakt, Structure, MachFive,  
Halion and many others."



Nick Batzdorf, editor/publisher
Virtual Instruments Magazine
www.Virtualinstrumentsmag.com
1-877 VImagzn (846-2496)
+1818/905-9101, cell 590-9101

>
> > On Oct 12, 2007, at 10:32 AM, Nick Batzdorf wrote

> Well, the "standard" is what musicians have come to expect from a
> modern sample library based on what's being offered these days.
I understand what you are saying here Nick, I just wanted to evoke a  
clearer response as to the "standard" statement.

>
> The programming Keymap produces should import into all the other
> samplers no problem.
The word *should* is the operative word here. I recently had some  
percussion samples(slate rocks) set up in KM 1.5 to do a Round Robin.  
I brought them into the EXS and they worked fine. I brought that same  
EXS instrument into Kontakt 2 and the RR did not work at all. I sent  
Garth an email at Chicken Systems and he had it fixed in Translator  
within 24 hours (another guy who has incredible tech support BTW). I  
assume that fix will be in the next version of Kontakt as well.

I have not used MachFive or Halion or Giga in a while, so I cannot  
comment on their import abilities. But certainly if you understand  
the architecture of whatever format you are importing into with a bit  
of tweaking you can straighten this stuff out anyway.

Also.... yesterday I was working with a gigabyte on Zither samples.  
Keymap 1.5 has a new auto-tune type function which can be used on a  
per-sample/zone basis. Well I was just BLOWN AWAY by how easy it was  
to tune all those samples. I was left thinking of all the hours I've  
spent in the past years tuning samples "by hand", it was depressing  
and exhilarating at the same time. Anyway ... Keymap totally kicks  
some butt!!

Dennis

---------------------------------------
Dennis Burns
Bolder Sounds
Boulder Colorado
http://www.boldersounds.com
----------------------------------------

Hi guys, just to let you all know Ive mailed the forum owner (using the mail at the bottom of 
the page) to find out what if any the process / owner how we proceed with this.

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "guy lewis" <guypersonal@...> wrote:
>
> Hi guys, just to let you all know Ive mailed the forum owner (using
the mail at the bottom of
> the page) to find out what if any the process / owner how we proceed
with this.


Hi Guy

We are certainly aware of the interest in doing another Group Buy with
Redmatica, in fact we did one for the EXS manager back in 2003. There
isn't anything else you need to do, the interest is shown through the
number of posts written here, and the quality of the software certainly
speaks for itself. It can boil down to whether it is possible to set
one up or not - typically, the issues can be, first of all if the
developer is in principle interested, whether he may have other
commitments such as distribution agreements, whether we can reach
suitable pricing etc.

kind regards

Mark Cahill

I would love to be involved....

On Oct 17, 2007, at 8:39 AM, guy lewis wrote:

> Hi guys, just to let you all know Vie mailed the forum owner (using  
> the mail at the bottom of
> the page) to find out what if any the process / owner how we  
> proceed with this.

On Oct 17, 2007, at 7:45 AM, markdvc2002 wrote:

> --- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "guy lewis" <guypersonal@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys, just to let you all know Ive mailed the forum owner (using
> the mail at the bottom of
>> the page) to find out what if any the process / owner how we proceed
> with this.
>
>
> Hi Guy
>
> We are certainly aware of the interest in doing another Group Buy with
> Redmatica, in fact we did one for the EXS manager back in 2003. There
> isn't anything else you need to do, the interest is shown through the
> number of posts written here, and the quality of the software  
> certainly
> speaks for itself. It can boil down to whether it is possible to set
> one up or not - typically, the issues can be, first of all if the
> developer is in principle interested, whether he may have other
> commitments such as distribution agreements, whether we can reach
> suitable pricing etc.
>
> kind regards
>
> Mark Cahill
>
>
Okay, then, I'm interested too.

fm

HI Mark, and thanks for the clarification. So I guess if anyone is interested in being 
included in a possible group buy they need to post a confirmation here now so that 
Redmatica can either make comment or contact you with their thoughts...?

Thanks

Guy


--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "markdvc2002" <mark@...> wrote:

> Hi Guy
> 
> We are certainly aware of the interest in doing another Group Buy with
> Redmatica, in fact we did one for the EXS manager back in 2003. There
> isn't anything else you need to do, the interest is shown through the
> number of posts written here, and the quality of the software certainly
> speaks for itself. It can boil down to whether it is possible to set
> one up or not - typically, the issues can be, first of all if the
> developer is in principle interested, whether he may have other
> commitments such as distribution agreements, whether we can reach
> suitable pricing etc.
> 
> kind regards
> 
> Mark Cahill
>

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "guy lewis" <guypersonal@...> wrote:
>
> HI Mark, and thanks for the clarification. So I guess if anyone is
interested in being
> included in a possible group buy they need to post a confirmation
here now so that
> Redmatica can either make comment or contact you with their
thoughts...?


Hi Guy

Anyone who wishes to post that they are interested in partaking in a
group buy is of course perfectly welocme to do so. There is however,
no need to do this. Whenever we run a group buy, that is when people
have to get in touch in order to subscribe. They don't do that by
writing here, instead, typically a mail address gets set up to
accomodate subscriptions, together with a group buy page at our
website, logic-users.org. Just in case you haven't seen this, here is
how the last group buy looked:

http://logic-users.org/groupbuy/vimag

HTH, kind regards

Mark Cahill

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "markdvc2002" <mark@...> wrote:
>
> --- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "guy lewis" <guypersonal@> wrote:
> >
> > HI Mark, and thanks for the clarification. So I guess if anyone is
> interested in being
> > included in a possible group buy they need to post a confirmation
> here now so that
> > Redmatica can either make comment or contact you with their
> thoughts...?
> 
> 
> Hi Guy
> 
> Anyone who wishes to post that they are interested in partaking in a
> group buy is of course perfectly welocme to do so. There is however,
> no need to do this. Whenever we run a group buy, that is when people
> have to get in touch in order to subscribe. They don't do that by
> writing here, instead, typically a mail address gets set up to
> accomodate subscriptions, together with a group buy page at our
> website, logic-users.org. Just in case you haven't seen this, here is
> how the last group buy looked:
> 
> http://logic-users.org/groupbuy/vimag
> 
> HTH, kind regards
> 
> Mark Cahill
>

I posted on DOA to get an idea of how many people want it, but once we
get the details I will post it on there and try to get more people. I
think TapeOp and GearSlutz are good places also. Im sure there are
many other places to post, so if you guys have anymore places/forums
that you go then let me know and I can send you the "post" and you can
 just copy/paste it there. But we will need to get the details from
Redmatica before doing this....obviously.
 
-Dan

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "guy lewis" <forums@...> wrote:
>
> Message posted by guy lewis <guypersonal@...>:
> 
> Im up for this.. great idea, surely they would be interested if we
got enough people together. Their full package isnt in the budget
price bracket for sure....
>
I'm definitely interested in the group buy

>
> --- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com <mailto:exs-users%40yahoogroups.com> , "guy
> lewis" <forums@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Message posted by guy lewis <guypersonal@...>:
>> >
>> > Im up for this.. great idea, surely they would be interested if we
> got enough people together. Their full package isnt in the budget
> price bracket for sure....
>> >
> I'm definitely interested in the group buy
>
> I¹d add my name to the list if a group buy is a possibility
> willie dowling (Andrea sent me a quicktime showing how it works and it looks
> fantastic)

> Anyone who wishes to post that they are interested in partaking in a
> group buy is of course perfectly welocme to do so. There is however,
> no need to do this. Whenever we run a group buy, that is when people
> have to get in touch in order to subscribe. They don't do that by
> writing here, instead, typically a mail address gets set up to
> accomodate subscriptions, together with a group buy page at our
> website, logic-users.org. Just in case you haven't seen this, here is
> how the last group buy looked:
>
> http://logic-users.org/groupbuy/vimag
>
> HTH, kind regards
>
> Mark Cahill
>


Ho wdo we get this to happen Mark?

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "guy lewis" <guypersonal@...> wrote:
>
> Ho wdo we get this to happen Mark?


I think I already explained in general terms how LUG group buys work,
Guy. I appreciate and understand your curiosity and enthusiasm, but
please understand that the most important issue is if a developer wants to do one with us, and we
can work out all the details involved and reach agreement. If this is the case, then a group buy may at some stage come to fruition, and as you can see on the group buy history at logic-users.org, IMHO we have quite an impressive track record. However, if a developer isn't able to, and there can be all sorts of reasons why not, then it just won't
happen.
I have been quite involved in helping setting up quite a number of
the LUG group buys over the last four years. We talked with some companies for well over 6 months until we were able to do something.
Please also bear in mind that it is our cast iron policy to never
 pre-announce any group buys.

kind regards

Mark Cahill

I'm in.

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "guy lewis" <forums@...> wrote:
>
> Message posted by guy lewis <guypersonal@...>:
>
> Im up for this.. great idea, surely they would be interested if we
got enough people together. Their full package isnt in the budget
price bracket for sure....
>

I'm also down for sure. I also have a friend who is down. So really I'm down for two copies.
-tom

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "vanitypolice" <napack@...> wrote:
>
> --- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "guy lewis" <forums@> wrote:
> >
> > Message posted by guy lewis <guypersonal@>:
> >
> > Im up for this.. great idea, surely they would be interested if we
> got enough people together. Their full package isnt in the budget
> price bracket for sure....
> >
> 
> I'm also down for sure. I also have a friend who is down. So really
I'm down for two copies.
> -tom
>

I'm interested, for sure.  I'll pass the idea to some friends, too.

--- In exs-users@yahoogrou ps.com, "guy lewis" <forums@...> wrote:

>

> Message posted by guy lewis <guypersonal@ ...>:

> 

> Im up for this.. great idea, surely they would be interested if we

got enough people together. Their full package isnt in the budget

price bracket for sure....



Count me in too...

SampleTrump

Sorry to be a curmudgeon, but to me this is just plain wrong.

If I were Redmatica, no way would I stage a group buy on Keymap. I've  
been working for years on a brilliant and unique program that  
threatens to revolutionize sample library development. Why should I  
lower the price? I can't raise it again after a group buy, in fact  
it's already a problem that people have been trained to expect group  
buys with bargain basement prices before they buy anything.

Of course it's nice to get ridiculously cheap prices, but if we want  
to have great software, we need to pay for it.

Now, lest anyone think I'm a hypocrite, we did run a group buy for VI  
mag on the Logic list. But that wasn't anything that's going to hurt  
the industry by lowering the prices to the point that magazines can't  
survive. So it's not that I'm against normal capitalistic processes  
or that I don't see the other side, just that I want great software  
to continue to be developed.


Nick Batzdorf, editor/publisher
Virtual Instruments Magazine
www.Virtualinstrumentsmag.com
1-877 VImagzn (846-2496)
+1818/905-9101, cell 590-9101




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "markdvc2002" <mark@...> wrote:
>
> --- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "guy lewis" <guypersonal@> wrote:
> >
> > Ho wdo we get this to happen Mark?
>
>
> I think I already explained in general terms how LUG group buys work,
> Guy. I appreciate and understand your curiosity and enthusiasm, but
> please understand that the most important issue is if a developer wants to do one with
us, and we
> can work out all the details involved and reach agreement. If this is the case, then a
group buy may at some stage come to fruition, and as you can see on the group buy
history at logic-users.org, IMHO we have quite an impressive track record. However, if a
developer isn't able to, and there can be all sorts of reasons why not, then it just won't
> happen.
> I have been quite involved in helping setting up quite a number of
> the LUG group buys over the last four years. We talked with some companies for well
over 6 months until we were able to do something.
> Please also bear in mind that it is our cast iron policy to never
>  pre-announce any group buys.
>
> kind regards
>
> Mark Cahill
>


OK Mark, I think I was getting confused, it seems what you are saying is that the company
themselves canvas a group buy based on interest they see themselves here? or is that that
you contact them to say there is interest in a group buy, which then generates interest and
numbers via the forum and hopefully enough to cover the criteria required by the product
owner...

So I guess I will assume that this is in progress one way or another since its not clear that
anything is happening (as you say, group buys or negotiations towards group buys can not
be pre-announced) and of course as you say, be patient as some of these deals take a
long time.

Cheers,

Guy

yo

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Nick Batzdorf <recording@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry to be a curmudgeon, but to me this is just plain wrong.
>
> If I were Redmatica, no way would I stage a group buy on Keymap. I've
> been working for years on a brilliant and unique program that
> threatens to revolutionize sample library development. Why should I
> lower the price? I can't raise it again after a group buy, in fact
> it's already a problem that people have been trained to expect group
> buys with bargain basement prices before they buy anything.
>
> Of course it's nice to get ridiculously cheap prices, but if we want
> to have great software, we need to pay for it.
>
> Now, lest anyone think I'm a hypocrite, we did run a group buy for VI
> mag on the Logic list. But that wasn't anything that's going to hurt
> the industry by lowering the prices to the point that magazines can't
> survive. So it's not that I'm against normal capitalistic processes
> or that I don't see the other side, just that I want great software
> to continue to be developed.
>
>
> Nick Batzdorf, editor/publisher
> Virtual Instruments Magazine
> www.Virtualinstrumentsmag.com
> 1-877 VImagzn (846-2496)
> +1818/905-9101, cell 590-9101


Hi Nick, I will look up the word 'curmudgeon' later, but I think there are a number of ways I
personally would justify this:

1) market penetration, get more people using your program instead of your competition
and you have captured a market for upgrades which are a future revenue stream, and for
additional applications you might build to create a suite of integrated applications
2) a volume buy from an accountany perspective has resulted from no direct marketing
campaign which can be a significant part of the unit cost of a product (Im speaking very
generally here since that is so dependent on your actual market)
3) more money, money you wouldnt get if you didnt do the group buy, and what is the
additional cost? some time allocated to it by your product manager, possibly no sales
commission either... maybe....
4) market penetration... did I say this already :-) no, seriously, if you have a product that is
growing in a competitive market, your strategy probably will be market growth. If you are
in a growing market, your strategy will include (real) market growth. However if you are
dominating a market, then maybe you wouldnt do a volume discount... but then if there
were customers out there, as in the case of our example here, customer who dont have
the product, of which you would hope some of them would be customers who would nt
buy your product unless you did your volume discount / group buy... you might want to
grab the customers instead of leaving them to go to your competition.

..cash flow would be another one... feed the coders.....

Hope that helps albeit a little rambling..

My big issue is has anyone actually asked Redmatica if they would  
want to hold a group buy? Instead of getting everyone excited and  
Redmatica saying no wouldn't it be smarter to clear it with them  
first before collecting lists of participants?

Just a thought...

Stu McC

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "guy lewis" <guypersonal@...> wrote:

> Hi Nick, I will look up the word 'curmudgeon' later, but I think
there are a number of ways I
> personally would justify this:
> 
> 1) market penetration, get more people using your program instead of
your competition
> and you have captured a market for upgrades which are a future
revenue stream, and for
> additional applications you might build to create a suite of
integrated applications

Hi Guy,

Redmatica have no competition in any of the software they produce as
far as I know.
This makes them uniquely able to charge what they think will work for
them.
They have released Keymap One as a cheaper option and I fully expect
them to continue to sell boatloads of Keymap at the current price.
I would anyway. It's an amazing triumph of a thing for sure which
SHOULD sell itself.
From a "marketing" perspective it remains to be seen whether this
strategy will work.
The demo and the videos alone should have everyone hooked at twice the
price imo.

All the best,

Paul.

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Nick Batzdorf <recording@...> wrote:
 >
 > Sorry to be a curmudgeon, but to me this is just plain wrong.
 >
 > If I were Redmatica, no way would I stage a group buy on Keymap. I've
 > been working for years on a brilliant and unique program that
 > threatens to revolutionize sample library development. Why should I
 > lower the price? I can't raise it again after a group buy, in fact
 > it's already a problem that people have been trained to expect group
 > buys with bargain basement prices before they buy anything.
 >
 > Of course it's nice to get ridiculously cheap prices, but if we want
 > to have great software, we need to pay for it.
 >
 > Now, lest anyone think I'm a hypocrite, we did run a group buy for VI
 > mag on the Logic list. But that wasn't anything that's going to hurt
 > the industry by lowering the prices to the point that magazines can't
 > survive. So it's not that I'm against normal capitalistic processes
 > or that I don't see the other side, just that I want great software
 > to continue to be developed.

Posted by: "guy lewis" guypersonal@...   cosmicbeach
Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:19 am (PST)


> Hi Nick, I will look up the word 'curmudgeon' later,

It means grumpy, stubborn, a grouch :)

>  but I think there are a number of ways I
> personally would justify this:
>
> 1) market penetration

[snip]

> 2) a volume buy from an accountany perspective has resulted from no  
> direct marketing
> campaign which can be a significant part of the unit cost of a  
> product (Im speaking very
> generally here since that is so dependent on your actual market)
> 3) more money, money you wouldnt get if you didnt do the group buy,  
> and what is the
> additional cost? some time allocated to it by your product manager,  
> possibly no sales
> commission either... maybe....

[snip]

I forget whether I posted this here, but a developer friend of mine  
likens group buys to fishing with dynamite: sure you catch a lot of  
fish, but the reef is gone forever.

And that's exactly what we're seeing here - "Ooh, a great new  
program. And I'm not going to buy it! I'm going to see if there's a  
group buy so I can have it for a fraction of its value." Andrea isn't  
a "market penetration" combatant, he's an extremely talented guy who  
deserves to be paid for his company's extraordinary efforts. This  
isn't a mass-market product, it's something only an enthusiast who  
wants to advance the art would produce.

Come on, he only wants a poxy $249 for Keymap, or an additional $130  
for everything they make! If it's not worth that, then we may as well  
just forget it - we're only going to see music software development  
from large companies that subsidize it to help sell other things.  
(And I'm not just talking about Apple.)

If you want Keymap - and anyone who makes their own sample libraries  
probably does - then consider the money an investment in Redmatica's  
software development and stop waiting for a group buy.



Nick Batzdorf, editor/publisher
Virtual Instruments Magazine
www.Virtualinstrumentsmag.com
1-877 VImagzn (846-2496)
+1818/905-9101, cell 590-9101

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "horselesspaul" <horseless.paul@...> wrote:
> 
> Hi Guy,
> 
> Redmatica have no competition in any of the software they produce as
> far as I know.
> This makes them uniquely able to charge what they think will work for
> them.
> They have released Keymap One as a cheaper option and I fully expect
> them to continue to sell boatloads of Keymap at the current price.
> I would anyway. It's an amazing triumph of a thing for sure which
> SHOULD sell itself.
> From a "marketing" perspective it remains to be seen whether this
> strategy will work.
> The demo and the videos alone should have everyone hooked at twice the
> price imo.
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Paul.
>

Hi Paul, ok, understand in terms of competition, but surely theres a whole lot of exs users 
out there that arent wired up to Redmatica yet.. also. IMO.. the dynamite in this case will 
gather the fish, but the fish will still keep on coming.. unless Im wrong, Logic users arent a 
dying breed, there's new ones budding all the time... :O)

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Nick Batzdorf <recording@...> wrote:
> > Hi Nick, I will look up the word 'curmudgeon' later,
> 
> It means grumpy, stubborn, a grouch :)
> 
> >  but I think there are a number of ways I
> > personally would justify this:
> >
> > 1) market penetration
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > 2) a volume buy from an accountany perspective has resulted from no  
> > direct marketing
> > campaign which can be a significant part of the unit cost of a  
> > product (Im speaking very
> > generally here since that is so dependent on your actual market)
> > 3) more money, money you wouldnt get if you didnt do the group buy,  
> > and what is the
> > additional cost? some time allocated to it by your product manager,  
> > possibly no sales
> > commission either... maybe....
> 
> [snip]
> 
> I forget whether I posted this here, but a developer friend of mine  
> likens group buys to fishing with dynamite: sure you catch a lot of  
> fish, but the reef is gone forever.
> 
> And that's exactly what we're seeing here - "Ooh, a great new  
> program. And I'm not going to buy it! I'm going to see if there's a  
> group buy so I can have it for a fraction of its value." Andrea isn't  
> a "market penetration" combatant, he's an extremely talented guy who  
> deserves to be paid for his company's extraordinary efforts. This  
> isn't a mass-market product, it's something only an enthusiast who  
> wants to advance the art would produce.
> 
> Come on, he only wants a poxy $249 for Keymap, or an additional $130  
> for everything they make! If it's not worth that, then we may as well  
> just forget it - we're only going to see music software development  
> from large companies that subsidize it to help sell other things.  
> (And I'm not just talking about Apple.)
> 
> If you want Keymap - and anyone who makes their own sample libraries  
> probably does - then consider the money an investment in Redmatica's  
> software development and stop waiting for a group buy.
> 
> 
> 
> Nick Batzdorf, editor/publisher
> Virtual Instruments Magazine
> www.Virtualinstrumentsmag.com
> 1-877 VImagzn (846-2496)
> +1818/905-9101, cell 590-9101
>

I had a 'curmudgeon' day yesterday actually.. wish I knew it was called that then..  

to be totally honest with you, I had chosen not to purchase Keymap and purchase Kontakt 
3 upgrade instead recently (hey, does that count as competition?). Im upgrading my studio 
amougst other projects so Im not in a position to consider it a cheap buy.. especially since 
in UK pounds it isnt such a snip :O)

So, fingers crossed for a group buy, but Im in no rush :O)

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Nick Batzdorf <recording@...> wrote:
>
> I forget whether I posted this here, but a developer friend of mine
> likens group buys to fishing with dynamite: sure you catch a lot of
> fish, but the reef is gone forever.
>
> And that's exactly what we're seeing here - "Ooh, a great new
> program. And I'm not going to buy it! I'm going to see if there's a
> group buy so I can have it for a fraction of its value." Andrea isn't
> a "market penetration" combatant, he's an extremely talented guy who
> deserves to be paid for his company's extraordinary efforts. This
> isn't a mass-market product, it's something only an enthusiast who
> wants to advance the art would produce.
>
> Come on, he only wants a poxy $249 for Keymap, or an additional $130
> for everything they make! If it's not worth that, then we may as well
> just forget it - we're only going to see music software development
> from large companies that subsidize it to help sell other things.
> (And I'm not just talking about Apple.)
>
> If you want Keymap - and anyone who makes their own sample libraries
> probably does - then consider the money an investment in Redmatica's
> software development and stop waiting for a group buy.


I'm amused at the notion that we should watch out for Redmatica's
economic well being.  Redmatica will do exactly what it sees to be in
its own self-interest, as it should.  Enthusiasts (which I assume to
define most in this group) are the "spreaders of the word" to more
typical users, the vast majority of whom are probably unaware of
Redmatica.  If Redmatica sees making a group buy to potential
evangelists as economically helpful to it, they'll make the deal.  If
their calculation is that it won't be advantageous to them, they
won't.  The notion that we should not ASK is just silly.  None of us
will be offended if they say "no".

I've lost track of how many people I've told about EXSManager, but
it's in the hundreds or thousands (I'm a professor).  As it happens, I
bought it for full price, but the few bucks Redmatica might have lost
if I'd gotten it in a "group buy" would be more than offset by the
very large amount of targeted free advertising they've gotten from me.
 I suspect this is not an unusual dynamic for many in this group,
i.e., many of us are users who come into contact with less informed
users of Logic.

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "midiface" <pshackleton@...> wrote:

> I'm amused at the notion that we should watch out for Redmatica's
> economic well being.  Redmatica will do exactly what it sees to be in
> its own self-interest, as it should.  Enthusiasts (which I assume to
> define most in this group) are the "spreaders of the word" to more
> typical users, the vast majority of whom are probably unaware of
> Redmatica.  If Redmatica sees making a group buy to potential
> evangelists as economically helpful to it, they'll make the deal.  If
> their calculation is that it won't be advantageous to them, they
> won't.  The notion that we should not ASK is just silly.  None of us
> will be offended if they say "no".
>
> I've lost track of how many people I've told about EXSManager, but
> it's in the hundreds or thousands (I'm a professor).  As it happens, I
> bought it for full price, but the few bucks Redmatica might have lost
> if I'd gotten it in a "group buy" would be more than offset by the
> very large amount of targeted free advertising they've gotten from me.
>  I suspect this is not an unusual dynamic for many in this group,
> i.e., many of us are users who come into contact with less informed
> users of Logic.
>

I think this is insane. All these people are waisting their time
telling us how this ISN'T going to happen and why. For those people,
go get in the studio with whatever you  have and quit putting this
whole thing down. Theres NO reason why a group buy is bad. Redmatica
would get more users.....which equals more $ and the word is spread
about their program. We are only talking $50-100 off the total package
which isnt enough too cry over. So whos going to help make this
happen? I initially had the idea and Guy was taking over with talking
to Redmatica and thats the last I heard. What can I  do to make this
happen and whats the update on this?

-Dan

On 22/10/2007, at 16:51, superdan139 wrote:

> I think this is insane. All these people are waisting their time
> telling us how this ISN'T going to happen and why. For those people,
> go get in the studio with whatever you have and quit putting this
> whole thing down. Theres NO reason why a group buy is bad. Redmatica
> would get more users.....which equals more $ and the word is spread
> about their program. We are only talking $50-100 off the total package
> which isnt enough too cry over. So whos going to help make this
> happen? I initially had the idea and Guy was taking over with talking
> to Redmatica and thats the last I heard. What can I do to make this
> happen and whats the update on this?
>
> -Dan

I am in for a group buy too..

but I forgot how to do it... should I go the EXS-Users site to register?


Renato Patriarca

--- Renato Patriarca <rpatriarca@...> wrote:

> I am in for a group buy too..
> 
> but I forgot how to do it... should I go the
> EXS-Users site to register?
> 

Hold on Renato. There is no group buy yet. Some folks
here are trying to arrange one. 
FWIW I own EXS Manager Pro and couldn't imagine using
any large EXS libraries without it.
JP

> On 22/10/2007, at 16:51, superdan139 wrote:
>
> > I think this is insane. All these people are waisting their time
> > telling us how this ISN'T going to happen and why. For those people,
> > go get in the studio with whatever you have and quit putting this
> > whole thing down. Theres NO reason why a group buy is bad. Redmatica
> > would get more users.....which equals more $ and the word is spread
> > about their program. We are only talking $50-100 off the total package
> > which isnt enough too cry over. So whos going to help make this
> > happen? I initially had the idea and Guy was taking over with talking
> > to Redmatica and thats the last I heard. What can I do to make this
> > happen and whats the update on this?
> >
--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Renato Patriarca <rpatriarca@...> wrote:
>
> I am in for a group buy too..
>
> but I forgot how to do it... should I go the EXS-Users site to register?

You are 100% Right

Posted by: "midiface" pshackleton@...   midiface
> I'm amused at the notion that we should watch out for Redmatica's  
> economic well being.
>
Hilarious, isn't it. But I suspect the reason you find my comments so  
amusing is that you aren't thinking about the larger context. Are you  
aware that Apple just lowered the price of Logic to $500 - with all  
kinds of other goodies? And Digidesign sells PT LE with an MBox Mini  
and all kinds of plug-ins for $300?

I guess I have a different perspective from yours. In addition to  
being a user, I'm a magazine publisher who relies on a healthy music  
software industry for his supper - although I'm posting as a user here.


Nick Batzdorf, editor/publisher
Virtual Instruments Magazine
www.Virtualinstrumentsmag.com
1-877 VImagzn (846-2496)
+1818/905-9101, cell 590-9101

For some strange reason since upgrading to 8, the LFE on Output 6  
seems to have disappeared on one of my current projects.

I have checked the audio assignments, which seem to be the same as on  
correctly "working" projects, yet still I do not hear or see the  
signal on output 6 LFE.

Any suggestions welcome.

Thanks.


Charles Lucy lucy@...

-----  Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning  -----

For information on LucyTuning go to:  http://www.lucytune.com

LucyTuned Lullabies (from around the world):
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

Skype user = lucytune

http://www.myspace.com/lucytuning

<Admin - this is now getting very OT for the EXS list. I suggest it best be continued on the logic OT list, thanks>

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Nick Batzdorf <recording@...> wrote:
>
> Posted by: "midiface" pshackleton@...   midiface
> > I'm amused at the notion that we should watch out for Redmatica's
> > economic well being.
> >
> Hilarious, isn't it. But I suspect the reason you find my comments so
> amusing is that you aren't thinking about the larger context. Are you
> aware that Apple just lowered the price of Logic to $500 - with all
> kinds of other goodies? And Digidesign sells PT LE with an MBox Mini
> and all kinds of plug-ins for $300?
>
> I guess I have a different perspective from yours. In addition to
> being a user, I'm a magazine publisher who relies on a healthy music
> software industry for his supper - although I'm posting as a user here.



Nick, I'm not pushing Redmatica to do anything they don't see as being
in their own self-interest.  That IS the larger context.  As for Apple
and Digidesign, they also act in their own self-interest, and the
competition benefits us all.

Surely you aren't suggesting that consumers shouldn't seek the lowest
prices they can legally get?

Just curious:  do you think the music software industry is not
"healthy"?  If it isn't, do you think that is the fault of users
seeking lower prices?  Perhaps there should be an industry-wide
commission with representatives from the software companies and user
groups, that SETS prices and enforces them, hmmm?  And while we're at
it, online vendors who sell at lower prices should be unable to order
product from the central supply house through which all music software
will be sold.  Oh, and I forgot:  software makers should have to get
permission of the central licensing commission before adding new features.

Just my way of saying this:  trust the markets, my friend.  It'll all
be OK in the end.  Which doesn't mean that Redmatica will thrive;
perhaps they'll undersell or underprice and go under...  in which
case, if there is really a need for such a product, someone else will
pick it up and run the business more effectively.  I think I trust
Andrea to make good decisions, though.  Why don't you?

Sorry to go on and on about this, but I do want to make one other  
comment: I don't have the same negative feelings about all group  
buys. It's when they diminish the value of everything around that I  
don't like the idea.


Nick Batzdorf, editor/publisher
Virtual Instruments Magazine
www.Virtualinstrumentsmag.com
1-877 VImagzn (846-2496)
+1818/905-9101, cell 590-9101




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Nick Batzdorf <recording@...> wrote:
 >
 > Posted by: "midiface" pshackleton@... midiface
 > > I'm amused at the notion that we should watch out for Redmatica's
 > > economic well being.
 > >
 > Hilarious, isn't it. But I suspect the reason you find my comments so
 > amusing is that you aren't thinking about the larger context. Are you
 > aware that Apple just lowered the price of Logic to $500 - with all
 > kinds of other goodies? And Digidesign sells PT LE with an MBox Mini
 > and all kinds of plug-ins for $300?
 >
 > I guess I have a different perspective from yours. In addition to
 > being a user, I'm a magazine publisher who relies on a healthy music
 > software industry for his supper - although I'm posting as a user  
here.


Posted by: "midiface" pshackleton@...   midiface
Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:28 am (PST)

> Nick, I'm not pushing Redmatica to do anything they don't see as being
> in their own self-interest. That IS the larger context.

That's NOT the larger context, but of course - I'm not suggesting  
that Andrea is a pushover. My point is much more general.

> As for Apple
> and Digidesign, they also act in their own self-interest, and the
> competition benefits us all.

That is, unless there's very little competition because companies  
like Redmatica aren't able to compete with large companies  
subsidizing their software development with hardware sales. Hopefully  
that won't happen, but it is a danger.

And I say that as an enthusiastic user of both Logic and Pro Tools.

> Surely you aren't suggesting that consumers shouldn't seek the lowest
> prices they can legally get?


Yes and no. Obviously we're not going to pay companies out of the  
goodness of our hearts - we're all going to do the research and find  
the best deal. But the best price isn't always the best deal. Look  
what's happened to music retail, for example. Or music journalism,  
for that matter. Consolidation has its upsides and downsides.


> Just curious: do you think the music software industry is not
> "healthy"? If it isn't, do you think that is the fault of users
> seeking lower prices?

It's thriving at the moment, and I want to see that continue.

> Perhaps there should be an industry-wide
> commission with representatives from the software companies and user
> groups, that SETS prices and enforces them, hmmm? And while we're at
> it, online vendors who sell at lower prices should be unable to order
> product from the central supply house through which all music software
> will be sold. Oh, and I forgot: software makers should have to get
> permission of the central licensing commission before adding new  
> features.

> Just my way of saying this: trust the markets, my friend. It'll all
> be OK in the end.

The markets have some blind spots, and things go very wrong when  
money rules everything - as we see in the US right now.


> Which doesn't mean that Redmatica will thrive;
> perhaps they'll undersell or underprice and go under... in which
> case, if there is really a need for such a product, someone else will
> pick it up and run the business more effectively. I think I trust
> Andrea to make good decisions, though. Why don't you?

Andrea is a big boy, yes. My diatribe was more to tell people to just  
go out and buy the damn thing, not to wait for a group buy.



Nick Batzdorf, editor/publisher
Virtual Instruments Magazine
www.Virtualinstrumentsmag.com
1-877 VImagzn (846-2496)
+1818/905-9101, cell 590-9101