EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

Well, I was hoping by now some link would be passed around for a 
formal Apple/Emagic petition to continue Windows development, but I 
haven't seen one yet. Someone posted a link to another web message 
board where you were encouraged to post a message in a thread as your 
signature, but it allowed anonymous posting so I doubt it counts as a 
legal petition, plus it was just a regular thread so people could 
post more than once etc. 

I've created a slightly more formal petition (though still nothing 
that fancy) -- at least you can leave your full name, email address, 
how long you've been using Emagic products and how much money you 
have spent on Emagic products, plus any additional comments.. Please 
check it out and sign! This petition is a database on the Logic-users 
group on Yahoo, so you'll need to have a YahooID to access it. 

>>>> http://tinyurl.com/ms0 <<<<<

Thanks,
Jeremy
http://www.ixks.com/~sadus

On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 HELP@... wrote:

> While this is good/constructive, a unique message sent to the folks at
> Apple, multiplied by all Logic users, would leave a massive impression. I
> believe it would carry more emotional weight than a petition.

Of course -- I sent one of those earlier today. :-) But I figure we might
as well try to encourage them in as many ways as possible.

Btw do you know of a better way to write to Apple personally, other than
this link? http://www.apple.com/contact/feedback.html  

Cheers,
Jeremy

On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 HELP@... wrote:

> Afterthought: Do both (send a letter and sign a formal petition).
> 
> Q: What will the email address be used for? Can't you hide the email
> addresses so they don't show up to anyone?

I can just remove that collum.. forgot about the damn spammers. Thanks for
pointing that out. 

Sweet, you can edit databases without erasing all their content (unlike
polls).

Someone on the SoundDiver group gave me a link to PetitionOnline where you
can set up your own free petitions. So I've recreated this petition over
there. That way people from other Logic/Emagic communities can still sign
the petition without feeling like I'm trying to force them to join the
LUG. You do have to enter your email address for this petition (though I
don't think it checks to see if its truly valid or not), however you can
choose to hide your email address from everyone, or everyone but me. 

Everybody, please check it out! 

       http://www.petitiononline.com/aewp/petition.html

Jeremy
http://www.ixks.com/~sadus

--- In exs-users@y..., "s6a9d6u9s" <sadus@i...> wrote:

> I've created a slightly more formal petition...

You are so silly. This isn't the government. These are private 
companies that can ( believe it or not ! ) do anything they choose 
to do. Just because you have purchased and used Emagic's 
Windows' offerings, doesn't mean that they _owe_ you anything !  
You are so naive to expect and think that these companies are 
going to take into consideration, _your_ personal concerns and /
or agenda. All they truly care about is survival and the " bottom 
line ".

This petition talk is truly embarrassing the people who are 
seriously suggesting it. Please stop making fools of yourselves 
by talking such nonsense, and quit while you're behind. If you 
are unhappy with Apple's acquisition of Emagic, the best and 
most effective thing you can do, is to go to another software 
manufacturer, and buy their system.

I, for one, am tired of everyone being such cry-babies about this. 
Please - get over it, and move on.

-JP.

While this is good/constructive, a unique message sent to the folks at
Apple, multiplied by all Logic users, would leave a massive impression. I
believe it would carry more emotional weight than a petition.

> Well, I was hoping by now some link would be passed around for a
> formal Apple/Emagic petition to continue Windows development, but I
> haven't seen one yet. Someone posted a link to another web message
> board where you were encouraged to post a message in a thread as your
> signature, but it allowed anonymous posting so I doubt it counts as a
> legal petition, plus it was just a regular thread so people could
> post more than once etc.
> 
> I've created a slightly more formal petition (though still nothing
> that fancy) -- at least you can leave your full name, email address,
> how long you've been using Emagic products and how much money you
> have spent on Emagic products, plus any additional comments.. Please
> check it out and sign! This petition is a database on the Logic-users
> group on Yahoo, so you'll need to have a YahooID to access it.
> 
>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/ms0 <<<<<
> 
> Thanks,

Afterthought: Do both (send a letter and sign a formal petition).

Q: What will the email address be used for? Can't you hide the email
addresses so they don't show up to anyone?

>> Well, I was hoping by now some link would be passed around for a
>> formal Apple/Emagic petition to continue Windows development, but I
>> haven't seen one yet. Someone posted a link to another web message
>> board where you were encouraged to post a message in a thread as your
>> signature, but it allowed anonymous posting so I doubt it counts as a
>> legal petition, plus it was just a regular thread so people could
>> post more than once etc.
>> 
>> I've created a slightly more formal petition (though still nothing
>> that fancy) -- at least you can leave your full name, email address,
>> how long you've been using Emagic products and how much money you
>> have spent on Emagic products, plus any additional comments.. Please
>> check it out and sign! This petition is a database on the Logic-users
>> group on Yahoo, so you'll need to have a YahooID to access it.
>> 
>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/ms0 <<<<<
>> 
>> Thanks,

> --- In exs-users@y..., "s6a9d6u9s" <sadus@i...> wrote:
> > I've created a slightly more formal petition...

On Thu, 11 Jul 2002, johnpaulmusic wrote:
> You are so silly. This isn't the government. These are private
> companies that can ( believe it or not ! ) do anything they choose
> to do. Just because you have purchased and used Emagic's
> Windows' offerings, doesn't mean that they _owe_ you anything ! 
> You are so naive to expect and think that these companies are
> going to take into consideration, _your_ personal concerns and /
> or agenda. All they truly care about is survival and the " bottom
> line ".

Hopefully when Apple sees the hundreds and hopefully thousands of
signatures on the petition, signed by many people who have been using
Emagic products for more than an entire decade who have spent thousands of
dollars with their company, they will reconsider. You never know which
twist is going to break the apple's stem. Regardless, even if it
accomplishes nothing, I feel better for knowing I tried my hardest to
convince them to undo their mistake while it's still not too late.
Obviously though, if all they cared about was the "bottom line" they
wouldn't have decided to drop 35% of their customer base.

> This petition talk is truly embarrassing the people who are
> seriously suggesting it. Please stop making fools of yourselves
> by talking such nonsense, and quit while you're behind. If you
> are unhappy with Apple's acquisition of Emagic, the best and
> most effective thing you can do, is to go to another software
> manufacturer, and buy their system.

I'm not embarassed by the petition one bit, nor do I feel a fool. I
honestly believe the best and most effective thing we all can do is to
encourage Apple and Emagic every chance we get to reconsider this drastic
and insane decision. You obviously disagree, so great, don't sign the
petition -- but your "cry-baby" comment is outrageous.

> I, for one, am tired of everyone being such cry-babies about this.
> Please - get over it, and move on.

If they don't reverse this decision I'll get a DP Mac eventually, but I'll
still be happy with LAW for quite some time. It's nowhere near time to
move on yet... 

Jeremy
http://www.ixks.com/~sadus

--- In exs-users@y..., Jeremy Martin <sadus@i...> wrote:

> I'm not embarassed by the petition one bit, nor do I feel a fool. I
> honestly believe the best and most effective thing we all can do 
is to
> encourage Apple and Emagic every chance we get to 
reconsider this drastic
> and insane decision. You obviously disagree, so great, don't 
sign the
> petition -- but your "cry-baby" comment is outrageous.
> 
> > I, for one, am tired of everyone being such cry-babies about 
this.
> > Please - get over it, and move on.
> 
> If they don't reverse this decision I'll get a DP Mac eventually, 
but I'll
> still be happy with LAW for quite some time. It's nowhere near 
time to
> move on yet... 
> 
> Jeremy
> http://www.ixks.com/~sadus

Knock yourself out, Jeremy. If you think the signatures of a 
couple hundred people are going to sway multi-million dollar 
companies from doing what is in _their_ best interests, then 
perhaps you would be interested in buying some land that I own 
in the Florida Everglades....?

I think that I'm going to start a petition so McDonald's will bring 
back their _original_ " special sauce " on the first Big Macs... 
What do you think... Do you think I have a chance in getting my 
way ?  Please God, Please God, Please God... I hope, I hope, I 
hope, I hope, I....


-JP.  ;-)

I'm behind you Jeremy.

I understand why many MAC users could be getting fed up with the ramblings,
but I would love to know how the general Logic population feels.
I'm sure it's not just PC users who are up in arms about this - the less
obtuse MAC users also understand that even if Logic V6 is excellent, it
takes wide adoption to be successful.
If Steinberg comes up with the goods and supports both platforms, it will
only be a mater of time before you see all development for Logic stopped, as
studios need to use solutions that their customers want, and Apple won't
continue development for a loss leader (after all "all they care about is
survival and the bottom line")
e.g. IBM's OS/2 platform was technically superior to Windows. Betamax was
better than VHS. Informix was better than Oracle. etc etc....

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Jeremy Martin [mailto:sadus@...]
  Sent: 11 July 2002 23:30
  To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [exs] Re: Apple/Emagic Petition to continue Windows
development


  > --- In exs-users@y..., "s6a9d6u9s" <sadus@i...> wrote:
  > > I've created a slightly more formal petition...

  On Thu, 11 Jul 2002, johnpaulmusic wrote:
  > You are so silly. This isn't the government. These are private
  > companies that can ( believe it or not ! ) do anything they choose
  > to do. Just because you have purchased and used Emagic's
  > Windows' offerings, doesn't mean that they _owe_ you anything !
  > You are so naive to expect and think that these companies are
  > going to take into consideration, _your_ personal concerns and /
  > or agenda. All they truly care about is survival and the " bottom
  > line ".

  Hopefully when Apple sees the hundreds and hopefully thousands of
  signatures on the petition, signed by many people who have been using
  Emagic products for more than an entire decade who have spent thousands of
  dollars with their company, they will reconsider. You never know which
  twist is going to break the apple's stem. Regardless, even if it
  accomplishes nothing, I feel better for knowing I tried my hardest to
  convince them to undo their mistake while it's still not too late.
  Obviously though, if all they cared about was the "bottom line" they
  wouldn't have decided to drop 35% of their customer base.

  > This petition talk is truly embarrassing the people who are
  > seriously suggesting it. Please stop making fools of yourselves
  > by talking such nonsense, and quit while you're behind. If you
  > are unhappy with Apple's acquisition of Emagic, the best and
  > most effective thing you can do, is to go to another software
  > manufacturer, and buy their system.

  I'm not embarassed by the petition one bit, nor do I feel a fool. I
  honestly believe the best and most effective thing we all can do is to
  encourage Apple and Emagic every chance we get to reconsider this drastic
  and insane decision. You obviously disagree, so great, don't sign the
  petition -- but your "cry-baby" comment is outrageous.

  > I, for one, am tired of everyone being such cry-babies about this.
  > Please - get over it, and move on.

  If they don't reverse this decision I'll get a DP Mac eventually, but I'll
  still be happy with LAW for quite some time. It's nowhere near time to
  move on yet...

  Jeremy
  http://www.ixks.com/~sadus





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I think that I'm going to start a petition so McDonald's will bring 
> back their _original_ " special sauce " on the first Big Macs... 
> What do you think... Do you think I have a chance in getting my 
> way ?  Please God, Please God, Please God... I hope, I hope, I 
> hope, I hope, I....

Hey -- when its free and only takes 5 minutes to set up, and 1 minute to
sign -- what could it hurt?

Jeremy

> I, for one, am tired of everyone being such cry-babies about this.
> Please - get over it, and move on.
> 
> -JP.

I think we (I assume I'm part of your insult) are fully aware they (Apple)
can do whatever they want. That much is obvious. It's about shaping Apple's
perception of Emagic's user base. If you don't give a crap about how
disruptive this event is to people, other than yourself, fine by me. But try
to make an effort to be less of an asshole about it. I know I've posted
entirely too many notes about this, but it makes sense for interested
members to coordinate some kind of effort to respond to the impact this will
have on their professional music process. Think of it as lobbying to change
a law you disagree with. I work on label remixes and this has a direct
impact on my ability to interface with my remix partners, and has a similar
negative impact on relationships with local relationships. If there was
another way, I'd spare you the exposure to it.

I'll make an effort to make less vocal out of consideration, but the
conversations have been interesting to me and difficult to ignore.

> Knock yourself out, Jeremy. If you think the signatures of a
> couple hundred people are going to sway multi-million dollar
> companies from doing what is in _their_ best interests, then
> perhaps you would be interested in buying some land that I own
> in the Florida Everglades....?

Chill man... It's Apple itself that is currently reconsidering there
position. This is a reality regardless of you sarcasm. What's to debate?

Wow... my spelling and grammar go out the window when I get annoyed. Oh
well...

JP,

It's cool. I understand your position. If the list feels this subject matter
is inappropriate, I'll be glad to put a cork in it, get off the soap box,
and get back to the EXS24.


BTW: I'm very unimpressed with Virtual Guitar. The Grand (even though I'm
currently porting it to the EXS24) sounds great, but VG left me very
disappointed. Very inflexible. I'm going to build a custom guitar EXS24
instrument soon with clean samples that can be manipulated intuitively and
sound more like the real deal. I estimate its size will be 500-1,000GB,
feature a wide range of string actions and cover most or all of the frets
(unlike VG that puts a strangle-hold on the chord octaves -- e.g. think of
the core note progression C1,C#1...A#2,B2,C1<--ouch! Chords are
pre-recorded, not made up of individual note samples. Not cool and way
overpriced.

HELP@... did that hunt and peck thing, resulting in the
following:

<snip>

> BTW: I'm very unimpressed with Virtual Guitar. The Grand (even though I'm
> currently porting it to the EXS24) sounds great, but VG left me very
> disappointed. 

I would be very interested to learn the method by which you port The Grand
to the EXS-24. I suspect I I am not alone.

Purdy please,

Bob

-- 

The restaurant of the brand-new Ritz Carlton hotel in downtown New York City
employs what it believes is the world's first water steward, to recommend
which bottled waters from its collection go best with which fancy dishes.

Bring on the locusts................

Hi

> I'm going to build a custom guitar EXS24
> instrument soon with clean samples that can be manipulated 
intuitively and
> sound more like the real deal. I estimate its size will be 500-
1,000GB,
> feature a wide range of string actions and cover most or all of the 
frets

That sounds mighty interesting. Keep os posted on the progress. If 
you need help and/or samples along the way then send me a mail. I 
have a reasonably good guitar recording setup.

You can hear a bit of my playing on www.monteallums.com/strat.html.

Kind regards,

Soren

> I would be very interested to learn the method by which you port The Grand
> to the EXS-24. I suspect I I am not alone.

Sorry for the delay on this request...

I set up a sequence triggering every key at maximum velocity for 4 bars
sustained one after another, from the left of the keyboard to the right,
with a one-beat rest between notes, probably at the default tempo (can't
quite remember). Pulled the resulting bounced copy of the track into Peak.
Normalized the bounced file. Manually specified the starting points of
markers for at the start of every note (auto selection of the point through
the Threshold command was not nearly accurate enough. Exported the resulting
regions (technically speaking, I exported the areas between markers). Then I
performed a chromatic import into the EXS24. Next, I edited the start and
end points using Logic's sample editor to fade in the first sample cycle and
the fade out last one, to eliminate any audible clicks (I like doing this in
Logic better than Peak). Then did a select all and moved all the samples up
the keyboard simultaneously using the key command that moves samples up/down
while changing the root note accordingly. Disabled Oneshot setting. Switched
to the alternate view of the EXS24. Activated the Fat24 filter, setting the
cutoff to zero and the cutoff via velocity to +100%. Adjusted the ADSR to
sound natural, particularly for the release. There you have it, a 128MB,
very-useable version of the grand. I also tweaked the EXS24 controls and
modulation for a while and came up with two very unique and rather
organic-sounding synth patches. Note: I didn't even bother with looping.
Because the samples were so long, the sustain was fine in nearly every
practical application of the piano.

My final project will be sampling The Grand at 8 different velocities. This
version will not use filter cutoff since it would butcher the samples at
lower velocities. It won't be as dynamic as the grand, but with 8 layers, it
should be pretty decent. The Grand VST instrument has serious problems with
the sustain petal within Logic. The port behaves perfectly. I've still got
my sample-trigger sequence, so some of the setup is already out of the way.
Still, it will take hours. The upside is, it's kind of fun to build
high-quality instruments like this from source VST instruments.

A final note: Although the 128MB version sounds different than the more
exact future replica, it sounds very good. It just gives the impression of
being a different "grand" because of the use of filtering. It's actually a
very, very good piano with a lot of dynamic. It just doesn't sound the same
as The Grand triggered at lower velocities. I'm glad I have both.

-Jer

> sustain petal

Should have been "sustain pedal"... oh well, I guess I get an A-

> From: <HELP@...>
> Reply-To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:20:51 -0500
> To: <exs-users@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [exs] Port of The Grand to EXS24
> 
>> sustain petal
> 
> Should have been "sustain pedal"... oh well, I guess I get an A-
> 
You get an A+

Thanks,'

Bob
 
founder, Cooper appreciation Society

-- 

"who's naughty on this plane??  I AM!!!!"

--- In exs-users@y..., <HELP@M...> wrote:
> I'm going to build a custom guitar EXS24
> instrument soon with clean samples that can be manipulated 
> intuitively and sound more like the real deal. 

Yeah, I was going to have a go at somehting like this, but the EXS 
under logic 5.1 doesn't yet seem to have the facilities I'd want to 
use.

I'd have each string's range on a different channel, so you could 
play a piece in using default mapping over MIDI channnels 1-6, and 
then run through the sequence afterwards, reassigning notes to 
different MIDI channels when you want it sounding on a different 
string. 
I'd also want some way of selecting playing style on a note-by-note 
basis without depending on velocity switching (because I'd want 
dynamics variable independently of style).

Now, because EXS (AFAIK) doesn't currently support multi-MIDI 
patches, or allow you to mix or switch between keygroups by 
controller, that presumably means that if you want six strings under 
four styles, you need to create an environemtn set that uses 6*4=24 
copies of EXS!!

And it still wouldn't give you proper humanise feautures like random 
or cycling functions. Maybe 5.2 improves EXS a lot, otherwise I might 
have to investigate these modular systems like Absynth or Reaktor.
It's been bugging me so much that a couple of hours ago I just 
downloaded the VST developer's kit, to see if its worth actually 
writing one from scratch! 
(it's not)

=Erk=