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Re: [exs] Groove Library production

Re: [exs] Groove Library production

2002-07-29 by PersingEP@aol.com

Hi All,

Excellent discussion of the various techniques about producing groove sample 
libraries. As you can easily tell, there is no way to do every type of 
production technique on every library. 

Here's the choices we face everytime we produce a groove library:

• Single Loops vs Multi section loops?
If you include lots of section variations like verse, chorus, bridge, intros, 
endings, fills, etc., it makes the library very flexible in a linear song 
context. However, this dramatically cuts down the amount of actual ideas you 
can offer. Some libraries provide you with an unedited live track, that has 
the complete performance...which obviously takes much more space too. Our 
opinion is that pattern/section variations are important with a Live Drum 
library, but less important on a "loop" oriented product. Variety vs. 
Variations.

• Mix Variations?
Even a simple request like providing Wet and Dry variations of live drum 
grooves doubles the size of a library, and halves the musical options 
presented in the collection. Multitrack collections take up even more space. 
It's really useful to be able to control the tracks seperately, but it takes 
a lot of space, which cuts down the ideas you can offer. It's also extremely 
difficult to properly present both mix and section variations simutaneously, 
because of the numbers of tracks/channels/parts necessary to play a complete 
song. Then you have the question of variations of a mix and remixes (fuller 
mix, smaller mix, no kick, no snare, compressed, uncompressed, etc)....tons 
of choices here as well. Also, you can't always present the final mix sound 
you want in a multitrack form, because of the buss processing that you used 
in the final mix.

• Groove Control versions?
Loops are the easy part, the Groove Control process is the tricky stuff for 
us...takes a long time to make each loop work properly and musically. It also 
takes almost double the size of the original loop to present it in the 
library. However, since GC allows you at least 10 times the musical 
usefulness of a normal loop....it's completely worth including....but it does 
take up more disc space.

• Multisamples?
Ideally, it would be great to have multi-velocity hits and kits of every 
sound in the library, so that you can play your own patterns with total 
dynamics and have it exactly match the grooves. Takes more memory 
though.....and oh...you want the hits with the mix variations too? 
Multitracked hits???

So if a library were to have every possible variation (Loops, Groove Control 
versions, linear sections, fills, mix variations, multitracks and 
multisamples) it would have about THREE loops in it!!

So obviously, the most important thing is to present as many musical ideas 
and variety as possible, otherwise it isn't worth the price of the library. 

Perhaps it will be possible to include every possible approach if DVD-ROMs 
ever become more standardized, but that is taking a very long time. A DVD-ROM 
is far more cost effective to produce than large multi-CD set, but there 
isn't enough people who have DVD drives yet to do it. Also, the DVD drives 
are notoriously flakey and less reliable than CD drives....so it is a tricky 
thing for us producers that do big collections. Then again, that would only 
solve the delivery issue...the problems of how to present it and the time to 
produce a collection this way are staggering.

So currently, each Groove Control library has a different approach and 
philosophy, so the customer can decide what aspect is most important to them. 
For reference, here's the layout approach of each Groove Control Product.

Retro Funk: Section variations
Big Bad Beats: Mix Variations
Backbeat: Section variations
Liquid Grooves: Multitrack, Remix variations
Ethno Techno: Multitrack, Remix variations, Section variations
NoizBox: Multitrack, Mix variations
Metamorphosis: Variety/Quantity, Mix variations
Stylus: Variety/Quantity, Mix variations
Stark Raving Beats: Extreme Multitrack (every mic)

A good example of the difference is Metamorphosis, which has a huge variety 
vs. Backbeat, which is very flexible for creating a complete drum 
performance, but has less grooves, vs Stark Raving Beats, which has 
ultra-flexible mixing, but no section variations.

Our solution, each one complements the other!

Of course each library covers a totally different musical genre too, but 
that's a little easier to figure out from the info and demos. 

Hope that explains a little of the thought process behind these products.

-Eric Persing

Re: [exs] Groove Library production

2002-07-29 by Gary Pozner

Dear Eric,

wanted to email you my site.  You could almost use it as an ad as 90% of the
pieces were made with one of your sample libraries.

gary pozner

www.whirledmusic.com

Re: [exs] Groove Library production

2002-07-29 by PersingEP@aol.com

Beautiful site Gary...thanks and keep up the good work!

-EP

In a message dated 7/29/02 11:42:31 AM, garypozner@... writes:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>wanted to email you my site.  You could almost use it as an ad as 90% of
>the
>pieces were made with one of your sample libraries.
>
>gary pozner

Re: [exs] Groove Library production.....Phatmatik Pro.

2002-07-30 by Phil Buckle

Hi Eric, Thanks for the detailed post regarding the production of loop
libraries. I feel a big change is coming in the way this material is
marketed. I don't think we'll ever see the likes of yours and Skippy's work
released on CD again. Certainly not of that high standard. I know you are
going the virtual instrument route but just when you think the way is clear
along comes Phatmatik Pro and something tells me the path could take another
turn. Have you checked it out yet? The possibilities are mind blowing. The
things I've already done with Burning Grooves inside that plug......phew!!
BTW for all you insatiable loopaholics, Phatmatik Pro makes it possible to
access the whole Acid Library world from within Logic. Those discs are
reasonably priced......plus you can access your existing loop library and
slice it up, pan the slices, add delay, modulate, comb filter, distort and
then save it with your song, did I mention it locks to the host
tempo?........and it's only $100. I sound like a Yahoo advertisement.
Phil Buckle.

Re: [exs] Groove Library production.....Phatmatik Pro.

2002-07-30 by Sascha Franck

Phil Buckle wrote:
[lots of great things about pHATmatik Pro]

I agree, PPro is fantastic!
Since I got it ReCycle is collecting dust over here.
And I want to mention one further function which made my jaws drop all the
way down when I checked it out for the first time: You can drag'n'drop
slices straight from PPro to *any* sampler or drumsampler supporting d'n'd!
So, in practice: You slice a loop in PPro, select all the slices, drag them
onto, say, Battery or DR-008, then drag the PPro MIDI file onto your
drumsampler's track and there you go, wow! After that you can use your
drumsamplers "preview in context" function to partially replace the
individual slices with others!

Seriously, for anybody into loopmangling, PPro is a must have. And no, I am
not working for bitshift audio.

Regards,
Sascha

Re: [exs] Groove Library production.....Phatmatik Pro.

2002-07-30 by yael

........: You slice a loop in PPro, select all the slices, drag them
onto, say, Battery or DR-008, then drag the PPro MIDI file onto your
drumsampler's track and there you go, wow! After that you can use your
drumsamplers "preview in context" function to partially replace the
individual slices with others!
Regards,
Sascha

**********
Hi Sascha,
because you own PPro can you tell me if you can drag 'n' drop a slice  from
the VST open on to the Arrange Window of Logic ?? :o) to extract a wav....

thx

Igor

Re: [exs] Groove Library production.....Phatmatik Pro.

2002-07-30 by Patrick Hall

What's the difference between PhatMatic Pro and PhatMatic Free?
(Other than the $99)
I was at the web site, but couldn't really get to a comparative feature list.
You know, save disabled, times out, test tones, whatever...
Just trying to decide if I'm ready to pop for the $99!

Anybody?

Thanks



--- yael <yael@...> wrote:
> ........: You slice a loop in PPro, select all the slices, drag them
> onto, say, Battery or DR-008, then drag the PPro MIDI file onto your
> drumsampler's track and there you go, wow! After that you can use your
> drumsamplers "preview in context" function to partially replace the
> individual slices with others!
> Regards,
> Sascha
> 
> **********
> Hi Sascha,
> because you own PPro can you tell me if you can drag 'n' drop a slice  from
> the VST open on to the Arrange Window of Logic ?? :o) to extract a wav....
> 
> thx
> 
> Igor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


=====
"You blow in this end of the trombone, 
and sound comes out the other end and 
disrupts the cosmos."

Roswell Rudd

Check out the Pat Hall @ http://www.mp3.com/pathall/

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Re: [exs] Groove Library production.....Phatmatik Pro.

2002-07-30 by Natalia Rakowski

PhatFree won't let you actually slice loops.  It will
only let you open their "PhatLoops," some of which you
can get with Computer Music magazine and I believe
they are releasing a library of loops for you to
purchase.

The Pro version lets you slice a loop or open an
Acidized loop with the slices already made.

Also, the Pro version is 4-part multitimbral I
believe.

That's all I can remember.  I've played with the Demo
of the Pro version and it's very cool...

-- N

--- Patrick Hall <pbone3b@...> wrote:
> What's the difference between PhatMatic Pro and
> PhatMatic Free?
> (Other than the $99)
> I was at the web site, but couldn't really get to a
> comparative feature list.
> You know, save disabled, times out, test tones,
> whatever...
> Just trying to decide if I'm ready to pop for the
> $99!
> 
> Anybody?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> --- yael <yael@...> wrote:
> > ........: You slice a loop in PPro, select all the
> slices, drag them
> > onto, say, Battery or DR-008, then drag the PPro
> MIDI file onto your
> > drumsampler's track and there you go, wow! After
> that you can use your
> > drumsamplers "preview in context" function to
> partially replace the
> > individual slices with others!
> > Regards,
> > Sascha
> > 
> > **********
> > Hi Sascha,
> > because you own PPro can you tell me if you can
> drag 'n' drop a slice  from
> > the VST open on to the Arrange Window of Logic ??
> :o) to extract a wav....
> > 
> > thx
> > 
> > Igor
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> =====
> "You blow in this end of the trombone, 
> and sound comes out the other end and 
> disrupts the cosmos."
> 
> Roswell Rudd
> 
> Check out the Pat Hall @ http://www.mp3.com/pathall/
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
> http://health.yahoo.com
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

Re: [exs] Groove Library production.....Phatmatik Pro.

2002-07-30 by Sascha Franck

> because you own PPro can you tell me if you can drag 'n' drop a slice
from
> the VST open on to the Arrange Window of Logic ?? :o) to extract a wav....

Hi Igor,

Yes, you can drag slices straight to the arrange too.
Actually, you can drag them anywhere if the target supports it
(Explorer/Finder, other samplers, the arrange, whatever).

Cheers,
Sascha

LAMP Phatmatik Pro. dragNdrop

2002-07-31 by uswitalski@yahoo.de

>> because you own PPro can you tell me if you can drag 'n' drop a slice
>> from
>> the VST open on to the Arrange Window of Logic ?? :o) to extract a wav....

> Yes, you can drag slices straight to the arrange too.
> Actually, you can drag them anywhere if the target supports it
> (Explorer/Finder, other samplers, the arrange, whatever).


how do you do it?
shouldnt this be working with the demo as well?
i dont manage to dragNdrop a slice.

enlighten me, this would be already worth the money.

cheers,

u.

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Re: [exs] LAMP Phatmatik Pro. dragNdrop

2002-07-31 by Matt Jones

On the mac version hold down the "option" key as you drag 'n' drop the
slice. Don't know whether it is supported in demo version.

Matt
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>>> because you own PPro can you tell me if you can drag 'n' drop a slice
>>> from
>>> the VST open on to the Arrange Window of Logic ?? :o) to extract a wav....
> 
>> Yes, you can drag slices straight to the arrange too.
>> Actually, you can drag them anywhere if the target supports it
>> (Explorer/Finder, other samplers, the arrange, whatever).
> 
> 
> how do you do it?
> shouldnt this be working with the demo as well?
> i dont manage to dragNdrop a slice.
> 
> enlighten me, this would be already worth the money.
> 
> cheers,
> 
> u.
>

RE: [exs] LAMP Phatmatik Pro. dragNdrop

2002-07-31 by Neil Goldstein

excuse me for jumping on your thread, but will Phatmatic be OSX ready soon?




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Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Jones [mailto:simmphonic@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 9:04 AM
> To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [exs] LAMP Phatmatik Pro. dragNdrop
>
>
> On the mac version hold down the "option" key as you drag 'n' drop the
> slice. Don't know whether it is supported in demo version.
>
> Matt
>
>
> >>> because you own PPro can you tell me if you can drag 'n' drop a slice
> >>> from
> >>> the VST open on to the Arrange Window of Logic ?? :o) to
> extract a wav....
> >
> >> Yes, you can drag slices straight to the arrange too.
> >> Actually, you can drag them anywhere if the target supports it
> >> (Explorer/Finder, other samplers, the arrange, whatever).
> >
> >
> > how do you do it?
> > shouldnt this be working with the demo as well?
> > i dont manage to dragNdrop a slice.
> >
> > enlighten me, this would be already worth the money.
> >
> > cheers,
> >
> > u.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
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