EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

Michael Karlsson wrote:
> I\ufffdm doing a Big Band arrangement using only Audio Instruments (EXS)
> I have a tenorsax that will play flute for a while in the middle.
> If I use external midi devices, it\ufffds a piece of cake. =(program change)
> But.........
> How do I do it with EXS.

Erm well... usually you just don't.
But, as this is quite a dissatisfying answer, you may try the following:
- For easier access to the following steps, create a songbased "sampler
instruments" folder (subfolder of your songfolder), copy both the tenorsax
and the flute into it.
- Assign a MIDI message to "program up/down" in the EXS preferences.
- Select the tenorsax and insert an appropriate MIDI message just before the
flute is supposed to play. Depending on the name of the instrument that
might be up or down.
- Do the same when the flute is supposed to switch back to sax.

This *should* work, but there might be a problem though: let's say the names
of the instruments are "sax" and "flute". Now, when you play the sax and
reach the flute part, you'd need to insert a "program down" message (as "f"
comes before "s" in the alphabet). If you stop Logic before it has switched
back to "sax" and rewind to the sax part, the flute will still play. If you
play even further, the "program down" message will be sent again, this time
forcing the EXS to select the nearest previous patch to your songbased
"flute".
In the end, each time you play this passage you'd have to switch to the
proper instrument at the proper place before you press play. Thatd be the
only way to make things halfway work.

Too bad Logic doesn't support program changes directly for audio
instruments.- Well OK, for some external ones it does, but you gotta cable a
plain instrument to them first, which means you'll be loosing some other
advances (such as linked float mixers). And for internal instruments that's
a no-go anyways.

Regards,
Sascha

Sascha Franck wrote:
> - For easier access to the following steps, create a songbased "sampler
> instruments" folder (subfolder of your songfolder), copy both the tenorsax
> and the flute into it.
> - Assign a MIDI message to "program up/down" in the EXS preferences.
> - Select the tenorsax and insert an appropriate MIDI message just before
the
> flute is supposed to play. Depending on the name of the instrument that
> might be up or down.
> - Do the same when the flute is supposed to switch back to sax.

OK, I just tried this, and it's working not bad (apart from the problems
mentioned, you will have to make sure to select the appropriate patch at
whatever position you're pressing play). Just make sure that you switch off
chase events for the selected MIDI event. Otherwise, whenever you are in the
middle of, say, the flute part and press stop/play, the EXS will switch down
a further step, chasing the "program down" message sent before.

Apart from the problems mentioned allready, if you're using huge patches,
the EXS might need quite a while to switch between them.

Another way to achieve what you want just came to my mind: You may want to
check out the new group feature (assuming you're on v5.2 allready) to switch
groups by CC messages. But that'd even require merging the instruments
first, so I'm not sure it's worth the effort. I'd say no - but I haven't
tested yet by myself.

In the end, if you have some instrument channels left, I'd just use another
EXS instance - as the EXS is sharing graphical resources, it shouldn't
affect CPU usage.

Regards,
Sascha

Thanks sascha.
I new you would be the man.
(This  problem is only for notation.)

Michael

> Från: "Sascha Franck" <saschafranck@...>
> Svara till: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
> Datum: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 09:47:39 +0200
> Till: <exs-users@yahoogroups.com>
> Ämne: Re: [exs] Instrument Change with EXS
> 
> Sascha Franck wrote:
>> - For easier access to the following steps, create a songbased "sampler
>> instruments" folder (subfolder of your songfolder), copy both the tenorsax
>> and the flute into it.
>> - Assign a MIDI message to "program up/down" in the EXS preferences.
>> - Select the tenorsax and insert an appropriate MIDI message just before
> the
>> flute is supposed to play. Depending on the name of the instrument that
>> might be up or down.
>> - Do the same when the flute is supposed to switch back to sax.
> 
> OK, I just tried this, and it's working not bad (apart from the problems
> mentioned, you will have to make sure to select the appropriate patch at
> whatever position you're pressing play). Just make sure that you switch off
> chase events for the selected MIDI event. Otherwise, whenever you are in the
> middle of, say, the flute part and press stop/play, the EXS will switch down
> a further step, chasing the "program down" message sent before.
> 
> Apart from the problems mentioned allready, if you're using huge patches,
> the EXS might need quite a while to switch between them.
> 
> Another way to achieve what you want just came to my mind: You may want to
> check out the new group feature (assuming you're on v5.2 allready) to switch
> groups by CC messages. But that'd even require merging the instruments
> first, so I'm not sure it's worth the effort. I'd say no - but I haven't
> tested yet by myself.
> 
> In the end, if you have some instrument channels left, I'd just use another
> EXS instance - as the EXS is sharing graphical resources, it shouldn't
> affect CPU usage.
> 
> Regards,
> Sascha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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>Sascha wrote.
> In the end, if you have some instrument channels left, I'd just use another
> EXS instance - as the EXS is sharing graphical resources, it shouldn't
> affect CPU usage.

Hi Sascha.
I´ve been thinking of the thing you said above.
I do have instrument channels left.
How do I achieve  what I want in that way.

You know that the notation should be able to be read from a printed paper in
the end! Tenorsax + Flute all with the right transposition and so on.

Michael

Michael Karlsson wrote:
> You know that the notation should be able to be read from a printed paper
in
> the end! Tenorsax + Flute all with the right transposition and so on.

Hi Michael,

I'm not much into scoring (the few times I need \ufffdscoring these days I still
do it the old-fashioned pencil and paper way, usually working faster for
lead sheets), but I'd just compose away and when done I'd merge the two
tracks together and do a pure score version. From what I know many people do
it like that rather than composing along the score.
In the end you may find yourself ending up with 2 songfiles, but well, from
my past experiences with scoring inside the computer (which admittedly are
mostly based on Cubase's score part - I was using that when I've been
working on my diploma) it was allways a benefit having a "score only"
version. No need to care about "visual quantizing vs. real quantizing" and
so on.
I was used to "hard edit" all notes rather than just fumbling around with
the various visual options in the score editor. As I am a guitarist that
often was the only valid method anyways - I mean, whenever you do a bend
through MIDI, the source note will be displayed in the score, but proper
guitar notes require the target note to be written with an additional
bending remark. Similar things are valid for other instruments.

Finally, to me it seems that if you have to deal with different
transpositions handled by a single player, you'd better be off with two
different tracks anyways (that you might merge into one sheet of paper later
on). But then, I am sure some score experts would handle it different.

Regards,
Sascha

Sascha Franck wrote:
> 
> I'm not much into scoring (the few times I need \ufffdscoring these days I still
> do it the old-fashioned pencil and paper way, usually working faster for
> lead sheets), but I'd just compose away and when done I'd merge the two
> tracks together and do a pure score version. From what I know many people do
> it like that rather than composing along the score.
> In the end you may find yourself ending up with 2 songfiles, but well, from
> my past experiences with scoring inside the computer (which admittedly are
> mostly based on Cubase's score part - I was using that when I've been
> working on my diploma) it was allways a benefit having a "score only"
> version. No need to care about "visual quantizing vs. real quantizing" and
> so on.

Yep - I always have separate file for the "score" version of a song.