EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

Hi all,

I am new to sampling and EXS24, and have some basic questions:

1) Setting up multi samples
2) Looping a sample
3) Different "ring out" times for samples in a multi sample instrument

plus some general thoughts (ignore if you're busy):

4) Some general thoughts about C64 etc

============================================================

ad 1) Setting up multi samples
=======================
I have downloaded 4 samples from Hello Synthesizers:

OBXA_Bass1_E1
OBXA_Bass1_E2
OBXA_Bass1_A2
OBXA_Bass1_A3

Now I am trying to make an instrument out of them by using "Load 
Multiple Samples", and then after selecting the 4 samples above, 
using the option "Auto map".

This places the ranges like this:

E1 sample, key note E1, zone range C-2 to A#1
E2 sample, key note E2, zone range B1 to F#2
A2 sample, key note A2, zone range G2 to D#3
A3 sample, key note A3, zone range E3 to G8

But it doesn't sound properly, i.e. there is a "bug" at F#2 to G2 (at 
the place where two zones "meet".) Otherwise it sounds fine.

To solve this I looked through the archives searching for info about 
multi samples and found this message:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exs-users/message/3067

After following the instructions, the ranges are:

E1 sample, key note E1, zone range C-2 to D2
E2 sample, key note E2, zone range D#2 to G2
A2 sample, key note A2, zone range G#2 to G3
A3 sample, key note A3, zone range G#3 to G8

However this just moved the "bug" so it occurs at G2 to G#2 instead!

Can anyone see what is wrong?

(I tried various other multi samples from the same site and none of 
them were added properly with Auto map. I haven't bothered trying the 
instructions from the old message as there must be some basic thing I 
am doing wrong.)

ad 2) Looping a sample
=================
Is there an easier way of doing this than fiddle-with-the-end-loop-
frame-of-each-sample-until-it-sounds-okay?

ad 3) Different "ring out" times for samples in a multi sample 
instrument
====================================================
Unless looped, an instrument made of multiple samples may have 
different "ring out" times depending on where on the keyboard you 
play it (because some samples in a multi sample have different 
lengths.) I am not sure how big a problem this will be actually, but 
it just strikes me that the instrument may sound silly if you play it 
un-looped and someone notices the different ring out-times! Does this 
matter and if so, is there an easy way of adjusting all samples so 
they have the same length?

ad 4) Some general thoughts about C64 etc
================================
Back around 1987 I was making music on the Commodore 64, and later 
also on the Amiga. It is completely amazing to compare music making 
today with how it happened in those days - as far as I remember, I 
actually sat and typed $FE and so on for values in the C64 editor. 
And it was a really big thing when the music guru Rob Hubbard used a 
sample for the very first time in a piece of music (a sample of a 
guitar, I think it was.) Today, 15 years later, we are spoiled with 
relatively low cost super-quality editors and library programs, and 
harddisk recording on your home computer as well as software samplers 
like the EXS24. Plus the Internet makes it easy to share experiences 
with other users - remember the times when you had to write a letter, 
put it in an envelope and walk to the post office in order to send 
something to someone in another country?

Anyway, I bought the LA Gold/EXS package around last Christmas but 
never really fiddled with the sampler before now. I knew there was a 
lot of freeware samples out there but figured these were poor quality 
and that you had to buy sample cds to get decent sounds. However 
after looking around it seems there is a zillion sounds out there 
just waiting to be downloaded and used free of charge, and once you 
have them you can combine and twist them a zillion ways with the EXS 
parameters and Logic's effects. What a wonderful development!

Best regards,
Henrik Jensen
www.mp3.com/triton_technology
(HDR in 16 bit only, someone please give me that LA Platinum upgrade 
for Christmas!)

evil_wicked@...  wrote: 

>
> ad 1) Setting up multi samples
> =======================
> I have downloaded 4 samples from Hello Synthesizers:
>
> OBXA_Bass1_E1
> OBXA_Bass1_E2
> OBXA_Bass1_A2
> OBXA_Bass1_A3
>
> Now I am trying to make an instrument out of them by using "Load 
> Multiple Samples", and then after selecting the 4 samples above, 
> using the option "Auto map".



I have had to fix a few of their sets as well. It seems there are two ways of
naming notes -- sometimes an ascending succession of white notes are numbered:

A1 B1 C1 D1 ...  G1 A2  --- new octave  begins on A

Other times the numbering is:

A1 B1 C2 D2 -- new octave number begins on C

When in doubt of the keynote of a sample I use something like CoolEdit's
frequency analyser or an external tuner to detact the actual pitch.


>
> ad 2) Looping a sample
> =================
> Is there an easier way of doing this than fiddle-with-the-end-loop-
> frame-of-each-sample-until-it-sounds-okay?


Crossfading can help but getting the best possible loop is necessary. There are
some useful key shortcuts for speeding adjustment of the loop in the Sample
Editor. There is a company (name I can't remember) which has a product which
optimises sample loops but I don't think it was cheap.

>
> ad 3) Different "ring out" times for samples in a multi sample 
> instrument
> ====================================================
> Unless looped, an instrument made of multiple samples may have 
> different "ring out" times depending on where on the keyboard you 
> play it (because some samples in a multi sample have different 
> lengths.) I am not sure how big a problem this will be actually, but 
> it just strikes me that the instrument may sound silly if you play it 
> un-looped and someone notices the different ring out-times! Does this 
> matter and if so, is there an easy way of adjusting all samples so 
> they have the same length?



Use Kontakt instead ;-) -- it has an option of keeping playing time constant
when pitch shifting a sample. 

Otherwise, with the EXS24,  you can choose a shorter decay time than the
samples take to play -- and set sustain to zero in the ADSR. 

Regards,
Murray

Thoughts from the mind of h_b_jensen, 20-11-2002:

>I have downloaded 4 samples from Hello Synthesizers:
>OBXA_Bass1_E1
>OBXA_Bass1_E2
>OBXA_Bass1_A2
>OBXA_Bass1_A3
>
>Now I am trying to make an instrument out of them by using "Load
>Multiple Samples", and then after selecting the 4 samples above,
>using the option "Auto map".
>
>This places the ranges like this:
>E1 sample, key note E1, zone range C-2 to A#1
>E2 sample, key note E2, zone range B1 to F#2
>A2 sample, key note A2, zone range G2 to D#3
>A3 sample, key note A3, zone range E3 to G8
>
>But it doesn't sound properly, i.e. there is a "bug" at F#2 to G2 (at
>the place where two zones "meet".) Otherwise it sounds fine.

What do you mean by 'bug'?  If e.g. the G2 doesn't sound like a G2 
(but maybe a G#2 or something), just adjust the 'keynote' parameter. 
If the naming of the samples is wrong (the A2 isn't really an A2), 
it's helpful to have a properly tuned instrument (outboard synth) 
play along with the EXS, for comparison.  Adjust keynotes for all 
zones until the 2 instruments sound in tune.

The solution you picked up from a previous post, involving using 
different ranges, is no good.  Which range to use in a case like this 
isn't that important usually.  Just have the transition somewhere "in 
the middle" -- like somewhere midway between E1 and E2 with the above 
samples -- i.e. around A1 or B1.  If that doesn't sounds right, 
experiment until you find a switch-point that sounds better.  And 
sometimes it'll always sound shitty, and you'll hear the transition 
from one sample to the next, no matter what you try...

If I didn't understand the question right, please explain more 
clearly what sort of 'bug' you mean.

>ad 2) Looping a sample
>=================
>Is there an easier way of doing this than fiddle-with-the-end-loop-
>frame-of-each-sample-until-it-sounds-okay?

No...  How could there be?  The optimal loopppoint depends completely 
on the sample being used.

>(HDR in 16 bit only, someone please give me that LA Platinum upgrade
>for Christmas!)

If you upgrade to Gold5, you'll get 24-bit recording as well.  No 
need for Platinum in that respect.  And the upgrade to 5 is worth 
every penny...

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

h_b_jensen wrote:
> But it doesn't sound properly, i.e. there is a "bug" at F#2 to G2 (at
> the place where two zones "meet".) Otherwise it sounds fine.
>
> To solve this I looked through the archives searching for info about
> multi samples and found this message:

As Hendrik Jan allready asked: What's the "bug" sounding like?

> (I tried various other multi samples from the same site and none of
> them were added properly with Auto map. I haven't bothered trying the
> instructions from the old message as there must be some basic thing I
> am doing wrong.)

Did you check the EXS preferences? There might be root note infos embedded
into the audiofile. In that case you may have to switch the preference "read
rootkey from" to "filename only" (very often the rootkey embedded in the
audiofile is just set to C3 as many wave editors default to that key).

> ad 2) Looping a sample
> =================
> Is there an easier way of doing this than fiddle-with-the-end-loop-
> frame-of-each-sample-until-it-sounds-okay?

Well, personally I am using WaveLab to set all my looppoints. WL also allows
for destructive crossfading and such, it even has a tool, the socalled "Wave
Equalizer", onboard, allowing you to "even out" loop ranges. Usually you can
get pretty much perfect loops with this, even for highly complexed material.
The EXS will then read them out automatically (one exception, which is a
bug: The right looppoint will allways be one sample too early, so you gotta
add 1 to the value).

> ad 3) Different "ring out" times for samples in a multi sample
> instrument

As Murray allready said, the EXS doesn't do something like Kontakt which has
an onboard stretching function, so, unless you have proper looppoints in
your file, there's not much of a chance to achieve what you want - using the
EXS that is.

Regards,
Sascha

--- In exs-users@y..., "Sascha Franck" <saschafranck@s...> wrote:
> 
> As Hendrik Jan allready asked: What's the "bug" sounding like?
> 
When you play along the keyboard and go from a note belonging to one 
zone to a note belonging to the next zone then the transition is 
wrong, i.e. if the first zone ends on a B1, the first note in the 
next zone should sound like C1, but it doesn't. I have been fiddling 
with ranges and can't seem to get it right.

The pitch of each sample is correct as far as I can hear, that is, 
the A1 sample really is note A1, and Sascha, I checked EXS 
preferences and changed to "filename only", but with no effect.

Judging from Hendrik's post I guess the real problem is my lack of 
musical education. I am awful at determining the pitch of a sound 
(!), and that makes it difficult to set up the ranges properly.
Anyway, if all else fails I can just use the E1 sample and let it run 
across the entire range and still end up with a decent sounding 
instrument, at least in the lower parts of the keyboard range. Then 
when I get more time I can look at ranges again.

With respect to looping, I will look at WaveLab and Kontakt although 
I am broke. And Murray, thanks for the decay + sustain tip, didn't 
think of that at all.

Best regards,
Henrik Jensen

PS. Didn't notice LA Gold v5 had 24 bit recording, that is completely 
awesome

Hi everyone,
My new CD is out.  It was all done in LAMP using the EXS...if you have a
minute, take a listen..

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/julielarson

regards
Julie

At 11:20 AM 11/20/02 +0000, you wrote: 
>
> --- In exs-users@y..., "Sascha Franck" <saschafranck@s...> wrote:
> > 
> > As Hendrik Jan allready asked: What's the "bug" sounding like?
> > 
> When you play along the keyboard and go from a note belonging to one 
> zone to a note belonging to the next zone then the transition is 
> wrong, i.e. if the first zone ends on a B1, the first note in the 
> next zone should sound like C1, but it doesn't. I have been fiddling 
> with ranges and can't seem to get it right.


The problem is probably simply that the keynote of the original sample is not
the one that the EXS24 (or you) has assigned to it. 

I checked the OBXA bass instrument I built:
Assign the note A1 to the sample named A2
Assign the note A2 to the sample named A3 
leave the assignments on the E1 and E2 samples according to the names. 

That should fix the problem -- but there is one more gotcha on that site in
some sample sets -- read on. 

If in doubt abou the tuning of a sample use a guitar/chromatic tunerand play
the note on the keyboard and test the sound coming out of your speakers for
correct pitch. You can use the demo of CoolEdit 2000 if you are on a PC
(www.syntrillium.com) to ascertain the tuning of the note. The other possiblity
if it is not a whole note wrong is that there is a problems with the samples
rates. 

Some samples I got from there were marked as being 44.1kHz but were pitch
shifted an odd amount away from the labelled notes -- I had to change the
nominal sample rate from to 48kHz (Sound Forge, Cool Edit, Wavelab -- perhaps
even Logic's sample editor could do this). It is worth checking that the sample
rate of all samples is the same.

Regards,
Murray

Hi Kim....
it's all samples


Hi Julie,

Are there *no* recorded instruments? All samples?

-----Original Message-----
From: Julie Larson [mailto:julielarson@...]
Sent: 20. november 2002 13:29
To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [exs]


Hi everyone,
My new CD is out.  It was all done in LAMP using the EXS...if you have a
minute, take a listen..

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/julielarson

regards
Julie 





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  exs-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Julie,

Are there *no* recorded instruments? All samples?

-----Original Message-----
From: Julie Larson [mailto:julielarson@...]
Sent: 20. november 2002 13:29
To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [exs]


Hi everyone,
My new CD is out.  It was all done in LAMP using the EXS...if you have a
minute, take a listen..

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/julielarson

regards
Julie 





To unsubscribe from this group, send a blank email to:
   exs-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
For a list of places to get free samples please see:
   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exs-users/links/



 

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Thoughts from the mind of h_b_jensen, 20-11-2002:

>--- In exs-users@y..., "Sascha Franck" <saschafranck@s...> wrote:
>>
>>  As Hendrik Jan allready asked: What's the "bug" sounding like?
>>
>When you play along the keyboard and go from a note belonging to one
>zone to a note belonging to the next zone then the transition is
>wrong, i.e. if the first zone ends on a B1, the first note in the
>next zone should sound like C1,

Like C2 you mean... That's what comes after B1, since scales run from C to C.

>  but it doesn't. I have been fiddling
>with ranges and can't seem to get it right.

Ranges have nothing to do with it.  Your problem indicates that you 
haven't got the keynotes right.  If the note that should sound like 
C2 actually sounds like e.g. D2, the keynote is two semitones too 
_low_ (think about it: if you drag the keynote *up* from e.g. G2 to 
A2, then A2 will play the original pitch instead of G2, and so G2 
(and all other notes) will sound 2 semitones *lower* than it used 
to...) .  Simply drag the keynote parameter from that zone until the 
transition sounds right.  No musical education needed for that -- 
just play the B1 and C2 repeatedly while dragging the keynote...

>The pitch of each sample is correct as far as I can hear, that is,
>the A1 sample really is note A1,

That can't be true, or else you wouldn't run into this problem. 
Well, it can be true, but then: if it's indeed true, then e.g. the 
A1-zone doesn't have its keynote set to A1.  Then that should be 
fixed: set the keynotes for all 4 zones to correspond to the 
filenames of the samples.  If the transitions still are not right, 
then the filenames are wrong and don't reflect the real recorded note.

>Judging from Hendrik's post I guess the real problem is my lack of
>musical education. I am awful at determining the pitch of a sound
>(!), and that makes it difficult to set up the ranges properly.

While playing the EXS, just monitor your external synth as well -- 
with e.g. a piano sound.  That should make it extremely easy to get 
the EXS "in tune".  I use this 'trick' all the time when downloading 
samples from the web whose pitch is not clear (no clear filename and 
no properly stored rootnote info).

>Anyway, if all else fails I can just use the E1 sample and let it run
>across the entire range

Nah... that's a completely silly solution for a problem that's very 
easy to solve.  You shouldn't let yourself get away with it so 
easily...

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote:
> While playing the EXS, just monitor your external synth as well --
> with e.g. a piano sound.  That should make it extremely easy to get
> the EXS "in tune".  I use this 'trick' all the time when downloading
> samples from the web whose pitch is not clear (no clear filename and
> no properly stored rootnote info).

Btw, for such purposes I allways have a sequence playing (usually using a
piano sound), some |F/D|G/D| pattern for the white keys and the same a
halftone up for the black keys. Works pretty well - especially when dealing
with stringed instruments where intonation often isn't that clear (due to
possible vibratos, slurs, slides, whatever) - in a more musical context
you'll notice inconsistencies easier, even when dealing with vibrato and the
likes.
Not exactly the "piano tuner 101", but sufficient in most cases.

Regards,
Sascha

...my last piece was all EXS and Plug-in's too.
Can't wait to finally ditch the 32 track monster, and all those bloody
cables...

BTW - track 10 was my fav - impressed !

-----Original Message-----
From: Julie Larson [mailto:julielarson@...]
Sent: 20 November 2002 12:59
To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [exs]


Hi Kim....
it's all samples


Hi Julie,

Are there *no* recorded instruments? All samples?

-----Original Message-----
From: Julie Larson [mailto:julielarson@...]
Sent: 20. november 2002 13:29
To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [exs]


Hi everyone,
My new CD is out.  It was all done in LAMP using the EXS...if you have a
minute, take a listen..

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/julielarson

regards
Julie





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Hey Julie!!!

I heard some of your music on CD Baby.com and I must say it sounded GREAT!!  I'm also
using the EXS24 a lot, and I'm a "Gospel" producer in the Maryland area.  I'm currently
fininghing up on a project for a couple in Baltimore, and then I'll be starting on my
own.  I love the EXS24, and I'm just learning about all the capablilties that it has. 
Tell me a little bit about what else you use if you don't mind.

Keep up the GREAT Work!!!

J-Mac!

=====


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com

Hi Julie,

Well congrats in that case! It sounds super-convincing!

-----Original Message-----
From: Julie Larson [mailto:julielarson@...]
Sent: 20. november 2002 13:59
To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [exs]


Hi Kim....
it's all samples


Hi Julie,

Are there *no* recorded instruments? All samples?

-----Original Message-----
From: Julie Larson [mailto:julielarson@...]
Sent: 20. november 2002 13:29
To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [exs]


Hi everyone,
My new CD is out.  It was all done in LAMP using the EXS...if you have a
minute, take a listen..

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/julielarson

regards
Julie 





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  exs-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
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Thanks everyone!  It was a fun project...and amazing that the exs could
handle all that.  Now...if it could just do crossfades we'd really be in
business.

Julie


Hi Julie,

Well congrats in that case! It sounds super-convincing!

-----Original Message-----
From: Julie Larson [mailto:julielarson@...]
Sent: 20. november 2002 13:59
To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [exs]


Hi Kim....
it's all samples


Hi Julie,

Are there *no* recorded instruments? All samples?

-----Original Message-----
From: Julie Larson [mailto:julielarson@...]
Sent: 20. november 2002 13:29
To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [exs]


Hi everyone,
My new CD is out.  It was all done in LAMP using the EXS...if you have a
minute, take a listen..

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/julielarson

regards
Julie 





To unsubscribe from this group, send a blank email to:
 exs-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
For a list of places to get free samples please see:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exs-users/links/





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Based on everyone's advice I have written a small text file 
called "Multisamples for Dummies" (!) and uploaded it under Files. 
Although it seems like most users here are pretty advanced, hopefully 
there are other newbies out there who may find it useful.
(If someone has got some spare time, feel free to check it out and 
ensure it sets up the instrument properly!)

Great list, thanks again,

Best regards,
Henrik Jensen

Hi group,

I made three EXSMkII instruments for Siedlaczek Compact Orchestra
samples:

- Woodwind Legato + Staccato

- Brass Legato + Staccato

- Strings Vib + Trem + Stac

Articulation select with bender. Expression (volume) with CC#11 (expr.
pedal). You can reprogram these to suit your needs. 

If anyone is interested I'll post them (of course without samples!).

Herbert Boland
www.zeppelin.demon.nl
www.mp3.com/ztudio_zeppelin
www.mp3.com/BolandDeBoer

hey, i am very interested! 
Would be great if you could post them!

Thanks!

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Herbert Boland 
  To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 2:41 PM
  Subject: [exs] Siedlaczek Compact Orchestra with EXS MkII


  Hi group,

  I made three EXSMkII instruments for Siedlaczek Compact Orchestra
  samples:

  - Woodwind Legato + Staccato

  - Brass Legato + Staccato

  - Strings Vib + Trem + Stac

  Articulation select with bender. Expression (volume) with CC#11 (expr.
  pedal). You can reprogram these to suit your needs. 

  If anyone is interested I'll post them (of course without samples!).

  Herbert Boland
  www.zeppelin.demon.nl
  www.mp3.com/ztudio_zeppelin
  www.mp3.com/BolandDeBoer










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  For a list of places to get free samples please see:
     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exs-users/links/





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Jedermann [mailto:tp21tp21@...] :
>hey, i am very interested! 
>Would be great if you could post them!

Check out the file area of this group. Cheers,

Herbert Boland
www.zeppelin.demon.nl
www.mp3.com/ztudio_zeppelin

This may have been covered, although I couldn't find it in the 
archives.  The SAM Horns (and probably any other Giga-only library) are 
being updated with .art files, which are apparently a Giga articulation 
update.  Has anybody figured out a way to incorporate those into the EXS 
translation?

And it was mentioned that the programmed keyswitching was being imported 
into the EXS24 Mk II Giga conversions.  But having never used Gigasampler, 
and being able to find nothing in the SAM Horns booklet regarding 
keyswitching, I'm in the dark as to what this means with this library.

Any help appreciated.

Sean McCoy

On Friday, December 6, 2002, at 04:38  PM, Sean McCoy wrote:

> And it was mentioned that the programmed keyswitching was being 
> imported
> into the EXS24 Mk II Giga conversions.  But having never used 
> Gigasampler,
> and being able to find nothing in the SAM Horns booklet regarding
> keyswitching, I'm in the dark as to what this means with this library.

I have the SAM solo horns (downloaded version) and there is a 
Keyswitching patch along with the single articulation patches.  They 
all seem to have translated into EXS24 perfectly from giga format.

Keyswitching enables you to load a single patch with access to multiple 
articulations (marcato,  portato, staccato).

Each articulation is assigned to a group that is 'made live' with the 
press of a certain key (note) that corresponds to that particular group 
(articulation).   The switch is made instantaneously between groups and 
is quite awesome.  T

Thus,  in a song,  articulation changes are made with recorded midi 
notes that occur at the right times,  sometimes milliseconds before the 
new articulation is called upon.  In the SAM solo horns the 
keyswitchers are C0 - G0.  Have fun!

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