EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

Well, I know I b*tched just like a lot of people about EXS having a sample 
crossfade function: be careful what you wish for!

Has anyone noticed the phasing when you're in that in-between-two-samples 
zone (say mp and mf)? If the samples are slightly out of tune with one 
another (a few cents will do the trick, no?), they will phase.  Any 
solutions, oh wise ones?

Ned



http://www.nedfx.com

       Ned Bouhalassa

n e d @ n e d f x . c o m

Thoughts from the mind of Ned Bouhalassa, 29-11-2002:

>Well, I know I b*tched just like a lot of people about EXS having a sample
>crossfade function: be careful what you wish for!
>
>Has anyone noticed the phasing when you're in that in-between-two-samples
>zone (say mp and mf)? If the samples are slightly out of tune with one
>another (a few cents will do the trick, no?), they will phase.  Any
>solutions, oh wise ones?

Uhm... tune them? :-)  Seriously though, yes, this is a problem for 
which I personally don't see any easy 9or difficult for that matter) 
solution.  Esp. with solo acoustic instruments, the xfade's are less 
helpful than I'd hoped them to be.  Xfading between e.g. a 
multi-velocity layered violin makes it sound as if two violins are 
plying in unison, instead of removing the audible 'jump' between two 
layers.  To be expected probably, but something I just hadn't 
anticipated up front...

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote:
 > Uhm... tune them? :-)  Seriously though, yes, this is a problem for
> which I personally don't see any easy 9or difficult for that matter)
> solution.  Esp. with solo acoustic instruments, the xfade's are less
> helpful than I'd hoped them to be.  Xfading between e.g. a
> multi-velocity layered violin makes it sound as if two violins are
> plying in unison, instead of removing the audible 'jump' between two
> layers.  To be expected probably, but something I just hadn't
> anticipated up front...

I guess that for a naturally sounding instrument you will just have to keep
the x-fade amount as large enough to get the transition from one zone to
another happening all smooth, while keeping it as small as possible to avoid
phasings or "doubled" note artifacts.

But then, this is just a physical limitation and I don't think that any
softsampler could offer a solution to it.

Regards,
Sascha

Heh....nope! All samplers have this same problem.

-EP

In a message dated 11/29/02 9:47:57 AM, ned@... writes:

>Well, I know I b*tched just like a lot of people about EXS having a sample
>
>crossfade function: be careful what you wish for!
>
>Has anyone noticed the phasing when you're in that in-between-two-samples
>
>zone (say mp and mf)? If the samples are slightly out of tune with one
>
>another (a few cents will do the trick, no?), they will phase.  Any 
>solutions, oh wise ones?
>
>Ned
>
>
>
>http://www.nedfx.com
>
>       Ned Bouhalassa
>
>n e d @ n e d f x . c o m
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 12:46:31 -0500
>Subject: [exs] Xfade's great, but what about the phasing?
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At 12:46 PM 11/29/02 -0500, you wrote:

>Well, I know I b*tched just like a lot of people about EXS having a sample
>crossfade function: be careful what you wish for!
>
>Has anyone noticed the phasing when you're in that in-between-two-samples
>zone (say mp and mf)? If the samples are slightly out of tune with one
>another (a few cents will do the trick, no?), they will phase.  Any
>solutions, oh wise ones?

Yeah, crossfading is overrated, just for that reason. Crossfading is like 
your paycheck, you can only use it a little. OK, that was a stupid analogy 
- but it was the only one I could think of...

Meaning that if you want a crossfade, you should have the two or more 
samples fairly close in timbre, tuning, and property. So - if that's the 
case, you might as well cross-switch it.

Crossfading has specific purposes, like a brass sound where you want the 
"splat" on a harder velocity. Switching is OK, but cross-fading it makes 
the "feel" less abrupt. Another application is the mod-wheel changing 
samples. Yet another is with broad, slow attack slow-release samples.

I agree with what the other guys said, crossfading is used well only in 
certain instances.

Garth Hjelte
Sampler User

In a message dated 11/29/02 4:13:12 PM, support@... writes:

>I agree with what the other guys said, crossfading is used well only in
>
>certain instances.

It's great on most ensembles, when assigned to the Mod wheel...like Symphony 
of Voices and Vocal Planet...it's very useful...also great for string 
sections, synth sounds, brass sections, etc.....

just no good for solo instruments!

-EP

Thoughts from the mind of Sascha Franck, 29-11-2002:

>I guess that for a naturally sounding instrument you will just have to keep
>the x-fade amount as large enough to get the transition from one zone to
>another happening all smooth, while keeping it as small as possible to avoid
>phasings or "doubled" note artifacts.
>
>But then, this is just a physical limitation and I don't think that any
>softsampler could offer a solution to it.

No, you're right of course.  I didn't want to suggest that this is a 
fault of the EXS.  Just an error in my view of what xfades can solve 
and what not.

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

The phasing doesn't matter too much for some sounds like electric 
guitar where the thing's going to end up being chorused anyway - try 
loading up the default v-switched EXS guitar patch, and whacking on 
the crossfade ... it suddenly becomes a really nice playable 
instrument! 

OTOH, if you are building an instrument from scratch, you could 
create matching "hard" and "soft" samples by starting with a single 
sample and EQ-ing it differently. Perhaps cut the treble and put in a 
big bass bottom for the "soft" sample, and put in some nasty EQ 
spikes to catch top-end features for the "hard" sample.





--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Ned Bouhalassa <ned@n...> wrote:
> Well, I know I b*tched just like a lot of people about EXS having a 
sample 
> crossfade function: be careful what you wish for!
> 
> Has anyone noticed the phasing when you're in that in-between-two-
samples 
> zone (say mp and mf)?