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Re: [exs] EXS24 MKII

Re: [exs] EXS24 MKII

2002-11-21 by Sascha Franck

Ned Bouhalassa wrote:
> One thing is still a drag: the editing section hasn't been changed much.
> It's still waaaaay more difficult to use than Kontakt, for eg.

I can't totally agree on this one.
Just try to import multiple samples into Kontakt. When using properly named
samples, setting up a quick patch is just amazingly fast using the EXS.
Neither Kontakt or HALion do it that fast.
Also, I never found the handles to easy to grab.
But of course you're right, the EXS editor could very well need a more or
less major improvement.
My top wishes would be:
- Editing of multiple zones (not only for checkboxes).
- Drag and drop of samples from explorer/finder.
- Graphical editing of zones - or let me better say, editing straight on the
zone. IMO the EXS editor doesn't have to change visually, but one should be
able to drag zone borders horizontally and eventually set their velo ranges
by Option/Ctrl dragging up and down.
- No need to save a patch each time you need an instrument for one song
only. I often load, say, a vocal or whatever track into the EXS and the need
to create subfolders and do the "save as" game is simply driving me mad.
There's no other softsampler on the market doing it that complicated.

Regards,
Sascha

Re: [exs] EXS24 MKII

2002-11-22 by PersingEP@aol.com

Pros:
Very Smooth Xfade sample selection from any mod source
Powerful modulation options
New filters
Next and Previous program on the interface (finally!)
Hidden parameters on the interface now
Additional simple LFO
Free update...nice!
Windows users get it too!


Cons:
They removed some of the dedicated routing which was much faster to use. Now 
I have to use that crazy matrix just to do a simple Envelope to the Filter! 
Not as cool as the original EXS and I will really miss that.....sometimes 
more is LESS! I think working with the MarkII will be much slower for me. I'm 
getting the hang of the Mod Matrix....but I think it could have been designed 
much better.

Small type in the mod section gives me a major headache to use....no way to 
quickly glance at your settings...takes much more time and "right brain" 
activity to suss out what's going on.....Maybe I need glasses.....but geez 
that's hard to look at.

The Lowpass filters sound different to me.....I wonder are they the same? The 
EXS MkI sounds fatter to me....just my first impression, maybe I'm nuts. The 
HP and BP filters are a great addition, wish the FAT function worked 
though...only seems to have an effect on 24db Low Pass. On the ES2 the Fat 
function seemed to work on all the filters.

So overall....more Powerful Great.....not as easy to use...not Great.

my 2 cents.

EP

I suppose that's the price of flexibility

Re: [exs] EXS24 MKII

2002-11-22 by Ben Hall

<PersingEP@...> wrote:

> They removed some of the dedicated routing which was much faster to use.
Now
> I have to use that crazy matrix just to do a simple Envelope to the
Filter!
> Not as cool as the original EXS and I will really miss that.....sometimes
> more is LESS! I think working with the MarkII will be much slower for me.
I'm
> getting the hang of the Mod Matrix....but I think it could have been
designed
> much better.

If you go to the options menu and select "Recall EXS24 MK1 parameters" it
puts all of the old mod routings straight into the matrix mod, so all the
dedicated functionality of the EXS mark 1 is there without having to
manually create the mod routines...

> Small type in the mod section gives me a major headache to use....no way
to
> quickly glance at your settings...takes much more time and "right brain"
> activity to suss out what's going on.....Maybe I need glasses.....but geez
> that's hard to look at.

I know what you mean... you could always run at 800x600... :-)

> The Lowpass filters sound different to me.....I wonder are they the same?

According to the docs, they are exactly identical...

> EXS MkI sounds fatter to me....just my first impression, maybe I'm nuts.
The
> HP and BP filters are a great addition, wish the FAT function worked
> though...only seems to have an effect on 24db Low Pass.

Yes, it has no function on the band and high pass filters.

Ben Hall
www.benhall.co.uk
DPS12 FAQ, Wavestation Info & Sounds

Re: [exs] EXS24 MKII

2002-11-22 by Sascha Franck

PersingEP@... wrote
> The Lowpass filters sound different to me.....I wonder are they the same?
The
> EXS MkI sounds fatter to me....just my first impression, maybe I'm nuts.
The
> HP and BP filters are a great addition, wish the FAT function worked
> though...only seems to have an effect on 24db Low Pass. On the ES2 the Fat
> function seemed to work on all the filters.

You are right, I did a test (bouncing, importing, inverting and crossplaying
the same songfile in 5.0 and 5.5) and the filters aren't identical. Seems as
if the MK I filter is resonating a bit more.
Unlike you, I ain't no Mr. Golden Ears (I am serious about that), so
eventually I might not even have noticed this, but in an A/B comparison of
the files the differences just became pretty much apparent, even without the
phase cancellation test.

I also agree with you that the ease of editing the most important parameters
is gone now - not because of the simple lack of proper sliders (as Ben said,
it's all there once you recall the EXS Mk I settings) but because of the
tiny-ness of the new modulation sliders.
IMO It'd be nice if one could switch between "classic" and "MK II" GUI
modes.

Regards,
Sascha
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> So overall....more Powerful Great.....not as easy to use...not Great.
>
> my 2 cents.
>
> EP
>
> I suppose that's the price of flexibility
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>

Re: [exs] EXS24 MKII

2002-11-22 by Rubber Chicken Software Co.

At 08:57 AM 11/22/02 +0100, you wrote:
>PersingEP@... wrote
> > The Lowpass filters sound different to me.....I wonder are they the same?
>The
> > EXS MkI sounds fatter to me....just my first impression, maybe I'm nuts.
>The
> > HP and BP filters are a great addition, wish the FAT function worked
> > though...only seems to have an effect on 24db Low Pass. On the ES2 the Fat
> > function seemed to work on all the filters.
>
>You are right, I did a test (bouncing, importing, inverting and crossplaying
>the same songfile in 5.0 and 5.5) and the filters aren't identical. Seems as
>if the MK I filter is resonating a bit more.
>Unlike you, I ain't no Mr. Golden Ears (I am serious about that), so
>eventually I might not even have noticed this, but in an A/B comparison of
>the files the differences just became pretty much apparent, even without the
>phase cancellation test.

But... the PDF says they are 100% exactly the same. Don't take this as if I 
read manuals, I don't. =) ...neither do any of my customers.. =) =) =)

>I also agree with you that the ease of editing the most important parameters
>is gone now - not because of the simple lack of proper sliders (as Ben said,
>it's all there once you recall the EXS Mk I settings) but because of the
>tiny-ness of the new modulation sliders.

Time to get a 640x480 monitor! =)

Is there a legitimate control board for this type of thing? Wouldn't it be 
great to have a standardized USB spec that would do control stuff like this?

>IMO It'd be nice if one could switch between "classic" and "MK II" GUI modes.

So, the possibilities are:

OSX-MKII Mode
OSX-Classic Mode
Classic-Classic Mode
Classic-MkII Mode
System 7-Logic 2 Mode

Garth Hjelte
Sampler User

[exs] MkII Select by CC, Note, Bender, Group#

2002-11-22 by Herbert Boland

Hi,
Still a bit overwhelmed by the programming power of the MkII I stumble
on things that make me very curious. 

To focus on one:  a group can be selected by combinations of CC, note
value, bender and group#. You can combine up to three of them for a
group select. Can someone enlighten me? In which cases do you e.g. use
groups to activate other groups? Maybe some of the gurus here can give
examples of programming realistic brass or string patches using these
modifiers. 

Thanks!

(now is a good time someone starts writing "the ultimate EXS programming
guide")

Herbert Boland
www.zeppelin.demon.nl
www.mp3.com/ztudio_zeppelin

[exs] MkII: Xfade types

2002-11-22 by Herbert Boland

Here's another question regarding MkII. You can choose between three
types of crossfading:
-dB linear
-gain linear
-equal power
What does this mean?

The manual addendum isn't very helpfull. I'll start experimenting later
on but all insight is welcome. Cheers,

Herbert Boland
www.zeppelin.demon.nl
www.mp3.com/ztudio_zeppelin

Re: [exs] MkII Select by CC, Note, Bender, Group#

2002-11-22 by Hendrik Jan Veenstra

Thoughts from the mind of Herbert Boland, 11/22/02:

>Still a bit overwhelmed by the programming power of the MkII I stumble
>on things that make me very curious.

It's amazing what they added indeed...  Conceptually it's all pretty 
clear (well, most of it) but personally I cannot at all oversee the 
possibilities the new additions create.  Rather mindboggling...

>To focus on one:  a group can be selected by combinations of CC, note
>value, bender and group#. You can combine up to three of them for a
>group select. Can someone enlighten me? In which cases do you e.g. use
>groups to activate other groups? Maybe some of the gurus here can give
>examples of programming realistic brass or string patches using these
>modifiers.

I hadn't even noticed, but indeed, in the Instrument Editor, if you 
pick a "Select by" option in a Group, a second "Select by" is added 
in which you can pick another selection criterion.  This is all quite 
esoteric stuff, I must say, and afaik hasn't been documented at all. 
I just played around with it a couple of minutes, and think I got it 
figured out -- the theory at least.

First of all, all Select criteria must be satisfied *simultaneously* 
before a Group actually sounds.  I.e. if you pick C1 as the Note to 
select Group1, and additionally set the 2nd "Select" to "Controller 
1, values 0-63", then Group 1 will only play after you've hit C1 
_and_ CC1 has a value between 0 and 63.
So suppose you have 3 groups: group1 and group2 are both assigned to 
Select by Note C1, and group3 is set to Select by Note C#1.  You also 
set group1 to Select by CC1, 0-63 and group2 to CC1, 64-127.
Now hit C#1: group3 plays, plain and simple.  Hit C1: group1 or 2 
plays, depending on the current CC1 value.
So you could use this to have two Notes select between e.g violin and 
trumpet, and then use the modwheel to select between either violin 
staccato/legato or trumpet staccato/legato.  I'm not sure though why 
you would do it this way: you might as well assign the 4 groups to 4 
different keys, and use that to select between violin-s/l and 
trumpet-s/l.  As I said: this is the (or: my) theory.  Any ideas for 
real-world applications are welcome.

As for the Select by Group#, this is the most puzzling of all imo. 
Again suppose there are 3 groups, G1, G2 and G3.  Set G1 to Select by 
Group:start, set G2 to Select by Group:G1, and G3 to Select by 
Group:G2.
Now play staccato (i.e. unconnected) notes: you'll hear the notes 
being played by G1, G2, G3, G1, G2... respectively.  I.e. if G1 has 
played, then the next note will be played by G2, since G2 is set to 
Select by G1.

However (this is where it gets puzzling): play a note, and keep the 
key down. Suppose you happen to hear G1 playing.  Now play additional 
keys: they'll all play G1.  I.e. as long as you play legato 
(overlapping notes) the next group will _not_ be triggered -- all 
notes will be played by the same group.  Only as soon as you release 
all keys, and then hit a new key, will G2 sound.

Furthermore: one of the Groups must be set to "Select by Group:start" 
for this feature to work.  This is probably the way to "get the EXS 
on its way".  I.e. the EXS must know which group to start with.  You 
can't have 2 groups set up like "G1 selects G2, and G2 selects G1" - 
you'll simply hear nothing.
Also the groups should be picked out uniquely.  You can't have G1 set 
to 'start' and then have both G2 and G3 selected by G1: only one of 
the groups (G2 or G3) will actually sound.

Still there?  Fine :-).  I'm not sure how you would ever use this 
"Select by Group#".  One application (although not too sensible imo) 
would be to have e.g. 6 kick-drums assigned to the same key, each in 
its own group, and then have group2 be selected by group1, group3 by 
group2, etc, so that each new kick-hit (which usually is unattached 
from the previous hit) triggers the next kickdrum.  This way 
successive notes would cycle through all 6 kicks...

Rather pointless imo.  What you _would_ want (maybe) is 6 layered 
kicks, and each note picks out a _random_ kick-sound -- to give a 
kind of natural variation.  But _that_ can be achieved in the EXS 
itself (not in the Instrument Editor I mean).  Set the 'Select Range' 
in the Instrument editor to adjacent ranges. With 3 groups (kicks) 
that would be e.g. 0-42, 43-84, 85-127.  In the EXS set the 
modulation matrix to "dest: sample select, source: LFO1", and set 
LFO1 to a random wave (2nd from below).  Set an appropriate speed for 
LFO1, and off you go.

If anyone can think of some sort of sensible way to use the "Select 
by Group" stuff, I would be very curious to know.

>(now is a good time someone starts writing "the ultimate EXS programming
>guide")

Yeah :-).

BTW, anyone already explore the Remote function?  Fun to play with. 
Set Remote to C2, grab e.g. a Cmin chord somewhere high on the 
keyboard, press your sustain pedal, and then start playing in to 
C#1-B2 range...
It's just a pity that they limited the range to 2 octaves, and didn't 
make this adjustable -- or dependent on the pitchbend range or 
something.
And it's a bit silly that it's not even 2 full octaves.  When setting 
Remote to C2, the range is C#1 to B2, whereas you'd have expected C1 
to C3.  Oh well...

Finally one annoying detail.  I don't like to complain about the 
interface or whatever, but isn't it completely braindead to have the 
+/- buttons (instrument select) on opposite sides of the instrument 
popup?  Of course you never use them -- just use a keycommand -- but 
then either leave them out and force people to use a keycommand, or 
put them such that it's actually easy to flip back & forth between 
sounds.  Putting them so wide apart requires an awful lot of mousing 
if you don't just want to go 'forward'.  And given the size of the 
buttons, this isn't easy at all.  Completely stupid imo.  Can you 
spell RSI?

For the rest: I'm very curious to see what people come up with. 
It'll take us quite some time to get to the bottom of this beast, I 
guess.  Isn't it great? -- this is not just some sort of update -- 
it's a completely new & wild instrument, and it's for free...


-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Re: [exs] MkII Select by CC, Note, Bender, Group#

2002-11-22 by Sascha Franck

Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote:
> If anyone can think of some sort of sensible way to use the "Select
> by Group" stuff, I would be very curious to know.

From what I know, one purpose of this feature would be to allow for very
realistic string sounds. You could then have all your "bow downs" on one
group and the "bow ups" on another.
Might also make sense for more variations in hihat patterns or even guitars.
And there might be tons of other possibilities...

> Finally one annoying detail.  I don't like to complain about the
> interface or whatever, but isn't it completely braindead to have the
> +/- buttons (instrument select) on opposite sides of the instrument
> popup?  Of course you never use them -- just use a keycommand -- but
> then either leave them out and force people to use a keycommand, or
> put them such that it's actually easy to flip back & forth between
> sounds.  Putting them so wide apart requires an awful lot of mousing
> if you don't just want to go 'forward'.  And given the size of the
> buttons, this isn't easy at all.  Completely stupid imo.  Can you
> spell RSI?

Uhm - how comes I heard that complaint before (I won't tell where...)?
You're 100% right on that one, two up/down arrows right above each other
would make more sense.

Regards,
Sascha

RE: [exs] MkII Select by CC, Note, Bender, Group#

2002-11-22 by Herbert Boland

Hendrik Jan Veenstra:
> If anyone can think of some sort of sensible way to use the "Select by

> Group" stuff, I would be very curious to know.

Sascha Franck [mailto:saschafranck@...]:
>From what I know, one purpose of this feature would 
>be to allow for very realistic string sounds. You 
>could then have all your "bow downs" on one group 
>and the "bow ups" on another. Might also make sense 
>for more variations in hihat patterns or even guitars. 
>And there might be tons of other possibilities...


Figured that. I'll take HJ's other rather longish post and give it some
thoughts and maybe a good night's rest will help in understanding how
worthwile this all is. 

It looks like a real trend: designing user interfaces with characters
not more than 5 pixels high, color on color: PhatmatikPro, Kontakt,
MkII.  Did someone already open the MkII interface in Control mode? Give
it a try... Now there is a *big* blue screen.

Herbert Boland
www.zeppelin.demon.nl
www.mp3.com/ztudio_zeppelin
www.mp3.com/BolandDeBoer

Re: [exs] MkII Select by CC, Note, Bender, Group#

2002-11-22 by Hendrik Jan Veenstra

Thoughts from the mind of Sascha Franck, 11/22/02:

>Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote:
>>  If anyone can think of some sort of sensible way to use the "Select
>>  by Group" stuff, I would be very curious to know.
>
>From what I know, one purpose of this feature would be to allow for very
>realistic string sounds. You could then have all your "bow downs" on one
>group and the "bow ups" on another.

Ah, that's a nice idea indeed, yes. It would require you to play the 
notes detached though -- i.e. not completely legato -- since 
otherwise the EXS doesn't switch groups.  And that in turn sort of 
defeats the idea of up & down bows, which in general _are_ legato...

>Might also make sense for more variations in hihat patterns or even guitars.

I wonder if in such cases randomizing sample-choice wouldn't be more 
effective (as I described inmy post) instead of this "fixed cycling 
order".
It's a pity there isn't a true "random select" function (or I didn't 
discover it yet).  Using a random LFO has its own problems, like 
samples changing sound while keeping a key depressed.  It would be 
nice if you could have the EXS pick a random sample on every note-on, 
and then have it play _that_ sample without changing it for the 
entire durationof the note.
And yes, it's trivial to build an environment patch that causes this 
behaviour -- e.g. send a random CC88 on every note on, and have the 
mod-matrix such that CC88 selects a sample -- but it would be nice if 
it was part of the EXS...

>And there might be tons of other possibilities...

Uh... yes...  Such as...? :-)

>>but isn't it completely braindead to have the +/- buttons 
>>(instrument select) on opposite sides of the instrument popup?
>
>Uhm - how comes I heard that complaint before (I won't tell where...)?

Did you?  I didn't...

>You're 100% right on that one, two up/down arrows right above each other
>would make more sense.

I'm really amazed at blunders like this.  Clearly the Emagic dudes 
know what they're doing, and they're a clever bunch, but things like 
this really make me go "tsk, tsk"...

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Re: [exs] EXS24 MKII

2002-11-23 by PersingEP@aol.com

Ahhhh...thanks Ben...that's a big help...course it nukes all your other your 
previous settings....but you win some and lose some.

-EP


In a message dated 11/21/02 6:48:40 PM, ben@... writes:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>If you go to the options menu and select "Recall EXS24 MK1 parameters"
>it
>puts all of the old mod routings straight into the matrix mod, so all the
>dedicated functionality of the EXS mark 1 is there without having to
>manually create the mod routines...

Re: [exs] EXS24 MKII

2002-11-23 by PersingEP@aol.com

Hi Sascha...thanks for doing the test. I have a feeling that maybe they 
swapped the EXS Lowpass for The ES-2 Multi-mode filter, which is probably a 
dfferent algorithm. Totally guessing here though folks....have to ask Clemens 
for the straight scoop. I'm a big fan of the Low pass sound of the original 
EXS, and so one of the first things I check in a major upgrade like this, is 
if some of the things that I loved about the original are still there...or if 
they got "improved" which some times means "not as good".

I have a studio full of gear that the original version sounds better than the 
update (Panasonic SV-3700 vs 3800, Old Yamaha NS-10s vs new NS-10s...etc, etc)

I tend to believe in the "if it aint broke, don't fix it" rule of thumb. Hope 
I'm wrong though...but it sounds like from your test that maybe I'm not crazy.

Best,

EP
In a message dated 11/21/02 11:57:04 PM, saschafranck@... writes:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>PersingEP@... wrote
>> The Lowpass filters sound different to me.....I wonder are they the same?
>The
>> EXS MkI sounds fatter to me....just my first impression, maybe I'm nuts.
>The
>> HP and BP filters are a great addition, wish the FAT function worked
>> though...only seems to have an effect on 24db Low Pass. On the ES2 the
>Fat
>> function seemed to work on all the filters.
>
>You are right, I did a test (bouncing, importing, inverting and crossplaying
>the same songfile in 5.0 and 5.5) and the filters aren't identical. Seems
>as
>if the MK I filter is resonating a bit more.
>Unlike you, I ain't no Mr. Golden Ears (I am serious about that), so
>eventually I might not even have noticed this, but in an A/B comparison
>of
>the files the differences just became pretty much apparent, even without
>the
>phase cancellation test.
>
>I also agree with you that the ease of editing the most important parameters
>is gone now - not because of the simple lack of proper sliders (as Ben
>said,
>it's all there once you recall the EXS Mk I settings) but because of the
>tiny-ness of the new modulation sliders.
>IMO It'd be nice if one could switch between "classic" and "MK II" GUI
>modes.
>
>Regards,
>Sascha
>
>
>
>
>>
>> So overall....more Powerful Great.....not as easy to use...not Great.
>>
>> my 2 cents.
>>
>> EP
>>
>> I suppose that's the price of flexibility

Re: [exs] MkII Select by CC, Note, Bender, Group#

2002-11-24 by Eric Baird

Yep, have a random value generator that passes a voice a single 
random value along with the velocity etc data. Back in the old analog 
days, you'd do this by having the gate voltage trigger a S&H unit fed 
by a noise source. 
Very /very/ easy to implement, especially now there's a modulation 
matrix, and very low-impact processor-wise, you just ask the OS for a 
random number every time there's a note-on event, which is nothing 
like as serious as trying to run an LFO. You wouldn't need any 
changes to the EXS panel, it'd just be an additional modulation 
source. And if you wanted to be really daring, you could have more 
than one random source, so you could have different parameters being 
randomised per note differently, so your synth bass has a timbre 
jumping on every note, and a pan position jumping on each note, but 
the two things aren't changing in sympathy.
 


--- In exs-users@y..., Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@k...> wrote:
>
> I wonder if in such cases randomizing sample-choice wouldn't be 
more 
> effective (as I described inmy post) instead of this "fixed cycling 
> order".
> It's a pity there isn't a true "random select" function (or I 
didn't 
> discover it yet).  Using a random LFO has its own problems, like 
> samples changing sound while keeping a key depressed.  It would be 
> nice if you could have the EXS pick a random sample on every note-
on, 
> and then have it play _that_ sample without changing it for the 
> entire durationof the note.
> And yes, it's trivial to build an environment patch that causes 
this 
> behaviour -- e.g. send a random CC88 on every note on, and have the 
> mod-matrix such that CC88 selects a sample -- but it would be nice 
if 
> it was part of the EXS...

Re: [exs] MkII Select by CC, Note, Bender, Group#

2002-11-24 by Hendrik Jan Veenstra

Thoughts from the mind of Eric Baird, 11/24/02:

>--- In exs-users@y..., Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@k...> wrote:
>  > It's a pity there isn't a true "random select" function (or I
>  > didn't discover it yet).  Using a random LFO has its own problems, like
>  > samples changing sound while keeping a key depressed.
>
>Yep, have a random value generator that passes a voice a single
>random value along with the velocity etc data. Back in the old analog
>days, you'd do this by having the gate voltage trigger a S&H unit fed
>by a noise source.

Would people out there be interested in an environemnt patch that 
produces, say, some random controller-value upon reception of a 
note-on?  You could then have the patch produce e.g. a random 
CC80-event, and have CC80 assigned to Sample Select in the MkII 
modulation matrix.  And have another copy of the same patch produce a 
random CC81 event, and have that assigned to Filter Cutoff or 
whatever.  Shouldn't be difficult to make such a patch...

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Re: [exs] EXS24 MKII

2002-11-24 by Hector

----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: <PersingEP@...>
>I have a feeling that maybe they
> swapped the EXS Lowpass for The ES-2 Multi-mode filter, which is probably
a
> dfferent algorithm. Totally guessing here though folks....have to ask
Clemens
> for the straight scoop. I'm a big fan of the Low pass sound of the
original
> EXS, and so one of the first things I check in a major upgrade like this,
is
> if some of the things that I loved about the original are still there...or
if
> they got "improved" which some times means "not as good".
>
> I tend to believe in the "if it aint broke, don't fix it" rule of thumb.
Hope
> I'm wrong though...but it sounds like from your test that maybe I'm not
crazy.

I would like to be able to select either Mk 1 or 2 from the instruments
list.  This should not be that hard to implement.

Hector.

Re: [exs] MkII Select by CC, Note, Bender, Group#

2002-11-25 by PersingEP@aol.com

This is something you can do in Stylus and Atmosphere for example....it is 
very cool.

-EP

In a message dated 11/23/02 4:53:40 PM, eric_baird@... writes:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>Yep, have a random value generator that passes a voice a single 
>
>random value along with the velocity etc data. Back in the old analog 
>
>days, you'd do this by having the gate voltage trigger a S&H unit fed 
>
>by a noise source. 
>
>Very /very/ easy to implement, especially now there's a modulation 
>
>matrix, and very low-impact processor-wise, you just ask the OS for a 
>
>random number every time there's a note-on event, which is nothing 
>
>like as serious as trying to run an LFO. You wouldn't need any 
>
>changes to the EXS panel, it'd just be an additional modulation 
>
>source. And if you wanted to be really daring, you could have more 
>
>than one random source, so you could have different parameters being 
>
>randomised per note differently, so your synth bass has a timbre 
>
>jumping on every note, and a pan position jumping on each note, but 
>
>the two things aren't changing in sympathy.

Re: [exs] EXS24 MKII

2002-12-12 by golanalog <golanalog@yahoo.com>

So this is NOT the case with the current update?  I was hoping 
we would have the option of choosing mkI or mkII.  Can 
someone confirm this for me?  thanks.


--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "Hector" <hector@n...> 
wrote:

> I would like to be able to select either Mk 1 or 2 from the 
instruments
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> list.  This should not be that hard to implement.
> 
> Hector.

Re: [exs] EXS24 MKII

2002-12-13 by HELP@MusicBootCamp.com

Other than ergonomics, they are (or rather can be) the same. Evidentally,
there's a function that allows the MkII to function exactly the same as the
MkI, so you don't have to mess with the routing to come up with the same
functionality. Haven't looked for it myself, but it's there somewhere and
essentially makes the MkII a MkIandII. -Jer
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: "golanalog <golanalog@...>" <golanalog@...>
> Reply-To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 22:10:51 -0000
> To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [exs] EXS24 MKII
> 
> So this is NOT the case with the current update?  I was hoping
> we would have the option of choosing mkI or mkII.  Can
> someone confirm this for me?  thanks.
> 
> 
> --- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "Hector" <hector@n...>
> wrote:
> 
>> I would like to be able to select either Mk 1 or 2 from the
> instruments
>> list.  This should not be that hard to implement.
>> 
>> Hector.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
>

EXS additional control? (was: Re: [exs] MkII Select by CC ...)

2002-12-28 by Eric Baird <eric_baird@compuserve.com>

[re: random modulation source]
--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, PersingEP@a... wrote:
> This is something you can do in Stylus and Atmosphere for 
example....it is 
> very cool.

Yep, the people who designed Atmosphere do seem to have put a lot of 
thought into it, don't they! :-) 
Bought it a few weeks ago, very happy with it, think I'll be using 
its "orchestral" strings a lot.

I suppose that if you want a hihat line to jump around the stereo 
field or vary its decay on each note independently of velocity, one 
could /try/ to work around the lack on a proper randomise parameter 
on other instruments by assigning a controller number and using the 
sequencer to tediously program in a pseudo-random sequence of 
controller changes ... but when you have a strings section, and want 
(eg) random placement of each note within a chord within the stereo 
field, then controllers will normally pan the entire chord as a 
block, which isn't the right effect.
So I was very pleased to spot "random" on Atmosphere's modulation 
matrix! 
 

<rambling on...>
You can't apply these sorts of polyphonic effects afterwards with 
audio signal processing, so to set additional parameters on a per-
note basis, I guess you'd have to: 
 (A) have the sequencer and instrument utilising a form of "extended 
MIDI" that has one or more additional parameters per noteon event, 
that can be programmed on the event list and used as (static per 
note) modulation sources on the instrument (perhaps logic already 
allows MIDI extensions, but the logic instruments don't seem to 
support them yet), or 
 (B) use special controller event(s) before each note, and have some 
way of telling the instrument that it is only supposed to use the 
initial value for playing the note, and not respond to further 
controller changes mid-note (which would happen when notes 
overlapped), or 
 (C) find some wierd way of doing it with programmed polyphonic 
aftertouch. 

emagic could capitalise on their ownership of both logic and the 
logic-specific instruments, and implement custom MIDI noteon 
extensions so that we could do this. Then if we decided that a guitar 
part needed an additional three fixed parameters per note to play 
with, we could have them, and each note played on the emagic 
instrument could get its own programmable attack time, damping 
strength, pitch envelope strength and so on.

For compatability with non-emagic instruments, logic could then allow 
background conversion between "extended parameter" noteons, noteons 
preceded by controller events, and noteons associated with polyphonic 
aftertouch events.    
The "preceding controller events" version would probably be best for 
transmission of multiple additional values through conventional MIDI 
hardware, but might play oddly on polyphonic parts if the receiving 
instrument didn't realise that it wasn't supposed to allow variation 
once a note was already playing, and would slow the data stream 
rather (lots of extra status bytes). 
The "poly aftertouch" version would already work on lots of standard 
MIDI instruments (but would presumably only allow one additional 
parameter)
And the "extended MIDI noteon" mode would be the optimal solution for 
advanced programming of multiple additional parameters on emagic's 
own softinstruments (where the datastream is completely under 
emagic's own control, and having the wrong number of noteon 
parameters wouldn't matter).

I suppose the extra information would be stored as logic-specific 
events so that it didn't freak out earlier versions of logic, and 
you'd need an extra track parameter to say how it was to be formatted 
for transmission to softinstruments, midi ports, etc.

It'd be fun!

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