EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

You know, advanced as this has all become, the thing that still makes 
working with sample libraries something of a compromise is that you 
have to call up different programs for different variations of  the 
same sound. Marcato and legato strings, for example. Things like 
keyswitching and extreme controller mapping help*, but it's still not 
quite there as far as I'm concerned.

The Yamaha VL1, in many ways the benchmark for an electronic 
instrument, has a parameter called...I forget what it's called, but 
it measures the rate at which the breath controller values change, 
not just the static value. So if you blow in quickly, you get the 
sound of a faster attack; blow gradually and you get a totally 
different sound.

I know that the main reason the awesome Yamaha VL1 didn't sell was 
that you had to learn how to use a breath controller - which is 
(excuse me) way overblown, because it's so freaking easy - but isn't 
that really what we want samplers to do? It sure seems like a much 
less kludgey way to play a part. (I play the VL1 with an EWI, which 
is awesome combination.)


* Am I right that the EXS only reads keyswitching that's been 
programmed into a Giga sound, that you can't program it yourself? I 
looked in v.2 and didn't find it.
-- 

Nick Batzdorf
818/905-9101, fax -5434, cell 818/601-4874

On Friday, January 10, 2003, at 01:34  PM, Nick Batzdorf wrote:

>
> The Yamaha VL1, in many ways the benchmark for an electronic
> instrument,

Totally agree. It's the only synth I have that has survived the 
soft-synth onslaught.
--------
Edmund Eagan
www.twelfthroot.com

Hey, that's what key-switching is for. Seemed to work pretty effectively.
But I'm not arguing the point. I'd much rather be an accomplished guitarist
than try to have to mimic a guitarist on a keyboard. But I know I can do
some cool stuff and some of it can't be replicated on a guitar. In my work
in industrial-dance music, that can be a bonus for designing new moods and
textures. -Jer

> have to call up different programs for different variations of  the
> same sound. Marcato and legato strings, for example. Things like

I've worked with breath control. You're right. They are incredibly agile in
controlling data. You have reminded me how much I would like to get a really
good one. Can you imagine, when I take my industrial music on the road,
playing vicious leads from the EXS or ES2 though something that looks as
innocent as a flute? Sounds good to me... Jer

> I know that the main reason the awesome Yamaha VL1 didn't sell was
> that you had to learn how to use a breath controller - which is
> (excuse me) way overblown, because it's so freaking easy - but isn't
> that really what we want samplers to do? It sure seems like a much
> less kludgey way to play a part. (I play the VL1 with an EWI, which
> is awesome combination.)

>I've worked with breath control. You're right. They are incredibly agile in
>controlling data. You have reminded me how much I would like to get a really
>good one. Can you imagine, when I take my industrial music on the road,
>playing vicious leads from the EXS or ES2 though something that looks as
>innocent as a flute? Sounds good to me... Jer
>
>>  I know that the main reason the awesome Yamaha VL1 didn't sell was
>>  that you had to learn how to use a breath controller - which is
>>  (excuse me) way overblown, because it's so freaking easy - but isn't
>>  that really what we want samplers to do? It sure seems like a much
>>  less kludgey way to play a part. (I play the VL1 with an EWI, which
>  > is awesome combination.)
>

I use breath control wx5 and a vl70-m. It is expressive. The vl70-m 
only allows one voice, built as a lead instrument. sometimes I want a 
polyphonic module...but how many expressive vioces do you want to 
programme or orchestra, I ask myself?...and you?

Incidentally there is the SYXG100 XG & VL PHYSICAL MODELING SOFTWARE 
SYNTh but only for windows.


jp
-- 


Tel: 01248 490 831

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I wrote:

>You know, advanced as this has all become, the thing that still makes
>working with sample libraries something of a compromise is that you
>have to call up different programs for different variations of  the
>same sound. Marcato and legato strings, for example. Things like
>keyswitching and extreme controller mapping help, but it's still not
>quite there as far as I'm concerned.

From: <HELP@...>

>Hey, that's what key-switching is for. Seemed to work pretty effectively.

It works very effectively, but what I'm suggesting (a "rate of 
controller change" controller) could do more - not that you couldn't 
use both, of course. If nothing else, you wouldn't have to use one 
hand to switch programs, so that hand becomes available to move other 
controllers or play other notes.

The main thing to me, though, is that you're thinking about playing 
rather than about switching programs. And it's all done with the 
breath controller - one controller. When it moves quickly from 
nothing to 127, you automatically get a fast attack sample. When you 
gradually release the pressure, you get less amplitude and crossfade 
to a quieter sample. When the pressure goes to zero, you get a 
release sample. You can map a little breath pressure to pitch, too, 
for a breath-controlled vibrato. And open and control a filter, or 
control the send to an exciter. It goes on and on.

>  I'd much rather be an accomplished guitarist
>than try to have to mimic a guitarist on a keyboard.

Sure, I'd rather be a virtuoso on one instrument than good on some 
and bad on others (I play about six instruments, depending on how you 
count them, and not all of them well)!

>But I know I can do
>some cool stuff and some of it can't be replicated on a guitar. In my work
>in industrial-dance music, that can be a bonus for designing new moods and
>textures. -Jer

There's that. I'm mainly thinking about orchestral simulations, 
though. Lots of people are working hard on the problem, and this is 
my suggestion.

EXS 2 now has the controller implementation to make this work - if we 
map it properly.
-- 

Nick Batzdorf
818/905-9101, fax -5434, cell 818/601-4874

That would be very cool indeed. -Jer

> It works very effectively, but what I'm suggesting (a "rate of
> controller change" controller) could do more - not that you couldn't
> use both, of course. If nothing else, you wouldn't have to use one
> hand to switch programs, so that hand becomes available to move other
> controllers or play other notes.
> 
> The main thing to me, though, is that you're thinking about playing
> rather than about switching programs. And it's all done with the
> breath controller - one controller. When it moves quickly from
> nothing to 127, you automatically get a fast attack sample. When you
> gradually release the pressure, you get less amplitude and crossfade
> to a quieter sample. When the pressure goes to zero, you get a
> release sample. You can map a little breath pressure to pitch, too,
> for a breath-controlled vibrato. And open and control a filter, or
> control the send to an exciter. It goes on and on.

Are you saying it currently supports the rate measurement? I forget from
your other posts whether you mentioned it. -Jer

> EXS 2 now has the controller implementation to make this work - if we
> map it properly.