EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

Thomas,

You can't! You need a multichanne (midi)l EXS24 to do this, and the only 
version is the VST-version of EXSP24, which works in non-Logic software, 
like Cubase, Digital Performer, etc. You _could_ do it in the current 
version of EXSMKII, but you would have to _cheat_ by using the Splitter, 
Transformer objects along with 4 instances of EXS - not a very elegant or 
simple solution...

Ned



Thomas Hansen Skarbye wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I will offer any free Scarbee library  (see www.scarbee.com) if you
> can help me with this:
> 
> I'm currently converting my bass libs from Giga to EXS24 mk II.
> In the Giga version I have a special Bass string program, which is
> like this:
> 
> Midichannel 1: E-string
> Midichannel 2: A-string
> Midichannel 3: D-string
> Midichannel 4: G-string
> 
> How can I do this with EXS24 mk II?



http://www.nedfx.com

       Ned Bouhalassa

n e d @ n e d f x . c o m

Hi Colin,

I am allready using 8 key triggers to control 8 layers (8 x 4 velocities)

In Giga I switch between the 4 strings using 4 program changes, but this can't be done in EXS24 mk II.
I tried to assing a mod-wheel value to each ot the strings, but this won't work because EXS24 goes bananas when you try to make more than 32 zones/layers. Each string uses 32 layers so this would be 128 zones/layers.

What probably could be done was to make a multi-instrument that connect to 4 EXS24 - each having 1 string.
However I don't know how to set this up.

I need to be able to play with each string and playback on the same midi-track.
Using a different track for each string can be done - but it is not very cool...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Thomas,

>
> What probably could be done was to make a multi-instrument that connect to 4
> EXS24 - each having 1 string.
> However I don't know how to set this up.
>
> I need to be able to play with each string and playback on the same
> midi-track.
> Using a different track for each string can be done - but it is not very
> cool...



If you could play several simultaneous instances of the EXS24 live it would go
some of the way to giving you what you want. Currently only the selected VSTi
or Logic Instrument (eg EXS24) can be played live. The currently selected
instrument is handled quite differently -- lots more CPU load -- and if this
were spread over several instruments simultaneously Logic would be less CPU
efficient. Some cabling in the environment can get around this but the latency
is then not very good at all. The method involves setting up a multi-instrument
in the environment which is then cabled to multiple AudioInstruments -- just
pick them as destinations for each channel of the multi-instrument. 

I don't know if Emagic plan to fix this in Version 5 -- Cubase SX does this
without problems. Quite possibly this will be done in Logic 6.x -- on the Mac
only it would seem. 

As you have discovered,  the EXS24 lags a bit behind GigaStudio -- I think it
is a matter of developer resources -- Emagic is small and they have lots of
balls in the air. Perhaps we will see the sort of features you need to
replicate your Giga Libraries if we petition for them. It might be worth a
direct approach to the developers --  a well known Instrument builder like
yourself could perhaps persuade them where we mere customers cannot. :-)

Regards,
Murray

Thoughts from the mind of S C A R B E E, 13-01-2003:

>In Giga I switch between the 4 strings using 4 program changes, but 
>this can't be done in EXS24 mk II.

Correct.

>In Giga I switch between the 4 strings using 4 program changes, but 
>this can't be done in EXS24 mk II.
>I tried to assing a mod-wheel value to each ot the strings, but this 
>won't work because EXS24 goes bananas when you try to make more than 
>32 zones/layers. Each string uses 32 layers so this would be 128 
>zones/layers.

So this means that using one EXS instance with all 4 strings is 
impossible, which leaves you with the only other option -- using 4 
EXS instances.  However:

>What probably could be done was to make a multi-instrument that 
>connect to 4 EXS24 - each having 1 string.
>However I don't know how to set this up.

The problem then is that you effectively try to play 4 EXS instances 
simultaneously (which you, in fact don't -- you only play one at a 
time, but as far as Logic is concerned it "looks as if" you try to 
play 4 at the same time), and playing multiple virtual instruments 
simultaneously is impossible -- unfortunately (VERY unfortunately).

>I need to be able to play with each string and playback on the same 
>midi-track.
>Using a different track for each string can be done - but it is not 
>very cool...

I think this is unsolvable.  Method 1 (one instrument) is impossible, 
since the EXS doesn't allow enough layers.  Method 2 (4 instruments) 
is equally impossible, since Logic doesn't allow live playing of 
multiple virtual instruments.

The best possible workaround I can think of (which might or might not 
be acceptable, depending on your exact needs) would be this:

1) Create an EXS instrument with all 4 strings.  In order to 
circumvent the layer limitation, make this a stripped down version of 
the original instrument(s).  I.e. less layers.  This compromises 
sound quality, but at least will allow you to play all 4 strings 
live.  In the Instrument Editor, assign each string to its own Group, 
and in the EXCS interface use program changes as "group select".  If 
that is not possible (can't check right now), it's quite easy to set 
up a very basic environment patch that will let you use whichever 
program changes to switch between EXS groups.  If you need help with 
that, just yell.  Use this setup for recording / live-playing.

2) Have 4 EXS instances, each with a "full" string loaded (i.e. all 
layers).  Now make an environment patch that distributes the notes 
you recorded with 1) to the proper EXS instance.  I.e. you use one 
EXS in 1) for recording, and then assign the recorded track to 2) 
which uses 4 EXS's.  The idea is that while Logic doesn't allow you 
to route incoming (live) midi to 4 simultaneous EXS's, you _can_ 
route "track-midi" upon playback to 4 such EXS's.

As for concrete implementation of this idea, there basically are two 
approaches (without going into all the details):

A) Use e.g. program changes in 1) to switch between the different 
layers. These program changes get recorded together with the regular 
data.  Now upon playback when using 2), make sure those recorded 
program changes cause Logic to switch between the 4 EXS instances. 
This way of doing it wouldn't be my favourite, since it requires both 
an environment patch for 1) and one for 2).  Furthermore, if you 
later decide (in thje Matrix editor for example) to insert a G-string 
note inside an E-string section, you would also have to insert 
"srroudning" program chanegs to make sure the track switches properly 
fromone string to the next upon playback.

B) Use e.g. program changes in 1) and set up an environment patch 
such that the incoming data is channelized, depending on the EXS 
layer being played.  E.g. sending prog change 48 plays the E-string 
layer, and at the same time an environment patch causes all incoming 
notes to have their channel set to 1 (ditto for the other 3 layers). 
Now upon playback, when using 2), you can connect a Channel Spliter 
to the 4 EXS instances, and assign the recorded track to this Channel 
Splitter.  Since all note data has already been properly channelized 
at recording-time, the Channel Splitter will take care of sending the 
notes to the proper EXS instances.  And if you later add a G-string 
note inside an E-string section, you only have to set the note's 
channel properly to ensure proper playback.

Okay, enough lateral thinking for today...  If you think the above 
would be a feasible workaround and need help implementing it, just 
say so. It really isn't all that hard.

Now what on earth is a scarabee library...? :-))


-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com