EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

have you guys seen this thing?

http://www.nativeinstruments.de/index.php?intakt_us

a Phatmatik Pro ripoff from NI... and by that I mean, it looks almost
EXACTLY the same down to the font. I'm thinking Art either sold them the
rights to Phat or is thinking of suing. loads REX2 files, yeehaw. I already
done spent my $ on Phatmatik Pro though... bla, I hope there's a crossgrade
offer.

teddybut

Impressed, I am! -Yoda, I mean Jer

> have you guys seen this thing?
> 
> http://www.nativeinstruments.de/index.php?intakt_us

----- Original Message -----

From: teddybut <teddybut@...>

> have you guys seen this thing?
>
> http://www.nativeinstruments.de/index.php?intakt_us
>
> a Phatmatik Pro ripoff from NI... and by that I mean, it looks almost
> EXACTLY the same down to the font. I'm thinking Art either sold them the
> rights to Phat or is thinking of suing. loads REX2 files, yeehaw. I
already
> done spent my $ on Phatmatik Pro though... bla, I hope there's a
crossgrade
> offer.

I too wish I had waited, what a bummer.  Art may do a rex to phat convertor
which should ease the pain a bit.   I bet Intakt works a damn-sight better
than P-Pro which has tons of minor irritations and a couple of major ones.

Hector.

teddybut wrote:
> a Phatmatik Pro ripoff from NI... and by that I mean, it looks almost
> EXACTLY the same down to the font. I'm thinking Art either sold them the
> rights to Phat or is thinking of suing. loads REX2 files, yeehaw. I
already
> done spent my $ on Phatmatik Pro though... bla, I hope there's a
crossgrade
> offer.

I must say that I am a bit dissapointed about bitshift.
IMO it's just too clear that he's collaborated with N.I. Not necessarily a
bad think, but sort of leaving PPro users in the rain (unless there really
is some very attractive crossgrade offer).
Let's realize that there hasn't been a single PPro update - and it surely
would've deserved one. There's quite some bugs and more or less important
annoyances - such as the non-existant file handling which makes backing up
almost impossible.
I was even further dissapointed when I saw the introductory video about
PhatFactory. One of the very first things I was complaining about when
checking out PPro was the fact that the first one or two slices of the loop
would allways be cut away when using its internal play function (for the
sliced loop, not the loop preview). Art said that never happened to him...
well, just watch the video (done by himself!) and you know that this (major,
IMO) bug is there in all glory...

And while I liked the way Art supported his product a lot at first (fast
responses straight from the programmer, he even coded me some test version
in 5 minutes), this is just not what things should be like. There's been no
product support (updates that is) in almost one year and now people will
just have to stay with what they allready have or shell out some more money
to get Intakt.
And, from Arts "no comment" (with a smiley) answer on his forum (that I
still can't post to due to the lack of activation - maybe Art is fearing my
flames, and right he is...) I just take it that he collaborated with N.I.
Now let's see what this will lead to... I doubt we'll see any PPro bugfixes,
I'd even take a bet on that. And as long as N.I. doesn't come around with a
reasonable crossgrade offer I don't buy into that either.

Not amused,
Sascha

Just some official apologies to Art Gillespie (bitshift) for the way I wrote
my last comment. I don't think the content was necessarily wrong (only
future will tell I guess), but as Art has allways been very friendly (and
listening) to me he deserves another sort of treatment, especially on a
public mailing list.

Regards,
Sascha

----- Original Message -----

From: Sascha Franck <S.Franck@...>

> I must say that I am a bit disappointed about bitshift.
> IMO it's just too clear that he's collaborated with N.I. Not necessarily a
> bad think, but sort of leaving PPro users in the rain (unless there really
> is some very attractive crossgrade offer).

I expect Phatfactory had disappointing sales and this could have swung his
decision to sell out to Native Instruments.  He was not having much luck
getting rex licensed from the PropellerHeads either, whereas the Natives
managed it.

> Let's realise that there hasn't been a single PPro update - and it surely
> would've deserved one. There's quite some bugs and more or less important
> annoyances - such as the non-existent file handling which makes backing up
> almost impossible.

I have for a while been thinking that updates would only be made to
Phatfactory and we would be expected pay for that.

Well I wanted to have a big rant again when I heard the Intakt news but
decided to keep my mouth shut.  However, now that you, one of the 'doves of
the administration', feel that it's necessary to speak out, so will I.

I got Phatmatic Pro a while ago and went out of my way to thoroughly test it
for Art.   I sent a detailed letter with about 15 bugs/improvement
suggestions that, if implemented, would have made it feel like a finished
product.  I sent it to an email address that I knew was valid and working.
I received no reply.   I then signed up to the Bitshift Forum and posted the
same letter again.  It got no reply.    I then got another email address for
Art from somebody off this list and sent the letter a third time.   Once
again I got no reply.     This surprised me because I had heard how good Art
is responding to feedback.

So I have hardly used Phatmatic.   When I slice a loop I want to be able to
save it in some form.   Recycle never left my shopping list because of this.
Now it's been replaced by Intakt.   I too hope there is a keen crossgrade
deal, although it would still be a bitter pill, especially as Art would
probably be getting a cut.

I thought P-Pro was expensive to begin with but presumed that it would be
polished and would be worth the money in the end.  How wrong was I?

> I doubt we'll see any PPro bugfixes,
> I'd even take a bet on that. And as long as N.I. doesn't come around with
a
> reasonable crossgrade offer I don't buy into that either.
>

Me too.

considerably niggled,
Hector.

> I expect Phatfactory had disappointing sales and this could 
> have swung his decision to sell out to Native Instruments.  
> He was not having much luck getting rex licensed from the 
> PropellerHeads either, whereas the Natives managed it.

From what bitshift says on his forum, he has absolutely nothing to do
with NI and INTAKT, so he hasn't sold out in any way. I do agree that it
is high time for an update though.

best regards
helge

> From: Sascha Franck <S.Franck@...>
>
> > I must say that I am a bit disappointed about bitshift.
> [snip]
> > Let's realise that there hasn't been a single PPro update - and it surely
> > would've deserved one. [snip] I doubt we'll see any PPro bugfixes,

Remember when we had that group buy on the LUG for pHATmatik Pro in September, there was supposed to be a free update "just around the corner" with all the file handling improvements that were so clearly missing? I don't suppose we'll ever see that free AU version now either we were told we would get with the group buy. Too bad... it's still a great product though....

It just "shows to go you" that you should never pay for what you expect you will be receiving in the future; only for what you are getting in the present. ESPECIALLY with computer soft/hard ware.


--
Eli Krantzberg
Nightshift Orchestra / Almat Productions
http://www.nightshiftorchestra.com

>> From: Sascha Franck <S.Franck@...>
>> 
>>> I must say that I am a bit disappointed about bitshift.
>> [snip]
>>> Let's realise that there hasn't been a single PPro update - and it surely
>>> would've deserved one. [snip] I doubt we'll see any PPro bugfixes,
> 
> Remember when we had that group buy on the LUG for pHATmatik Pro in September,
> there was supposed to be a free update "just around the corner" with all the
> file handling improvements that were so clearly missing? I don't suppose we'll
> ever see that free AU version now either we were told we would get with the
> group buy. Too bad... it's still a great product though....
> 
> It just "shows to go you" that you should never pay for what you expect you
> will be receiving in the future; only for what you are getting in the present.
> ESPECIALLY with computer soft/hard ware.
> 
> 
> --
> Eli Krantzberg

I'm not sure what to think as an unhappy customer of Phatmatik, and a beta
tester of the new version. The idea of Phat is great (obviously). I wouldn't
have bought it if it wasn't for the group buy and raves from people on our
lists (which I can't understand after having bought the software and had
pretty bad results). At first everything seemed like it was going to become
like it was promised, but now? I doubt that Art had anything to do with
INTAKT. But he might, who the heck knows. He hasn't posted an update or a
reply to the beta list since November 21st. To me that either means he is A)
in jail B) sick or C) sold out to NI.

I just wish someone would tell us what the heck is going on with this
product. I also really hope there is a crossgrade offer from NI. (maybe we
could set up some kind of group crossgrade if there isn't an official one?)

teddybut

> I just wish someone would tell us what the heck is going on with this
> product. I also really hope there is a crossgrade offer from NI. (maybe we
> could set up some kind of group crossgrade if there isn't an official one?)
> 
> teddybut

Count me in on that!
I too am a Phat 1.1 beta tester who's getting sick of waiting.



=====
"You blow in this end of the trombone, 
and sound comes out the other end and 
disrupts the cosmos."

Roswell Rudd

Check out the Pat Hall @ http://www.mp3.com/pathall/

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----- Original Message -----

From: To: <exs-users@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 3:29 AM
Subject: Re: [exs] Re: INTAKT???


> Matt McKenzie-Smith wrote:
>
> >
> > This rant may well be getting out of hand. Art may have nothing to  do
> > with this.

> Murray McDowall <murraymc@...>  replied:
> This seems to be the case: since his original "no comment" on the Bitshift
> Forum Art posted the following --
> ____________
>
> >
> > Sorry, that 'no comment' has caused a lot of trouble off the forum.

> > To clear things up, however: We had NOTHING whatsoever to do with Intakt
> > (well, I mean, obviously we seem to have influenced them quite a bit,
and I'm
> > bumming about that NFR I sent to one of their developers (haha

Well it was bound to happen.    Any new beatslicing/playing vsti is going to
look pretty similar to P-Pro as as the choice of features is fairly obvious
(waveform slicing display-transpose/tuning-vcf-vca-fx and some mod.).

The root cause of this collective mini-rant is the total lack of updates and
Art could have avoided this if he wanted.    If P-Pro was a polished
product, nobody would be complaining.

Regards,     Hector.

Hector wrote:
> Well it was bound to happen.    Any new beatslicing/playing vsti is going
to
> look pretty similar to P-Pro as as the choice of features is fairly
obvious
> (waveform slicing display-transpose/tuning-vcf-vca-fx and some mod.).

True. It's just amazing how much similar Intakts waveslicing window is
looking. As if they just ripped it off 1:1.

> The root cause of this collective mini-rant is the total lack of updates
and
> Art could have avoided this if he wanted.    If P-Pro was a polished
> product, nobody would be complaining.

True again. Actually, there's not even THAT much to complain about IMO - the
major drawbacks for my purposes are the complete lack of any sort of
filehandling thing (after losing quite a bunch of the samples needed for a
song a few years ago I decided to become pretty much "anal" about these
things), the fiddly knobs (just try to finetune them...) and the lack of a
trim option (that's what makes ReCycle still a valid thing to use). Oh well,
and the internal preview cutting off the first slice/s all the time.

Sascha

--- Sascha Franck <S.Franck@...> wrote:
> Hector wrote:
> > The root cause of this collective mini-rant is the
> total lack of updates
> and
> > Art could have avoided this if he wanted.    If
> P-Pro was a polished
> > product, nobody would be complaining.
> 
> True again. Actually, there's not even THAT much to
> complain about IMO - the
> major drawbacks for my purposes are the complete
> lack of any sort of
> filehandling thing (after losing quite a bunch of
> the samples needed for a
> song a few years ago I decided to become pretty much
> "anal" about these
> things), the fiddly knobs (just try to finetune
> them...) and the lack of a
> trim option (that's what makes ReCycle still a valid
> thing to use). Oh well,
> and the internal preview cutting off the first
> slice/s all the time.
> 
> Sascha
> 
> 

I would just like the preview to work properly if
you're using anything other than 44.1KHz as your
project rate.  Otherwise, the pitch is off in the
preview.  Took a while for me to get Art to admit this
bug.  At first he just gave me a "RTFM" without even
trying to understand what I was trying to say...

I thought that this would be a quick and easy
fix...but it's been almost a year...UGH!

-- Natalia


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> This rant may well be getting out of hand. Art may have nothing to  do
> with this.
> I mean how many other times have we seen another software co coming up
> with a rip off of someones software?
> Sit tight till we know facts, not speculation
> _________________
> Matt McKenzie-Smith

With all due respect, Matt: it's not out of hand, if you ask me. We had no
communication from art and that's why we're here in the EXS list even taking
about it. Art has said that he had nothing to do with INTAKT, on the
Bitshift list, since I wrote my note here. But, we still don't have a stable
version of PhatmatikPro to play with or any information concerning it's
progress. The only reason I posted that here is because I bought it through
this list on a group buy.

thanks for your insight though,
teddybut

And remember as well that NI have been known to release  
products in the past with a series of issues, and has taken a very 
large amount of time between updates, Reaktor 3 and Absynth 
came to mind.

Just for my 2 cents, I have seen Art act very rude on his forums in 
the past, towards people with very simple questions, led to 
believe that his product would have functionality, and he refused 
to admit that his product had bugs.......