EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

I originally posted this on the Logic-users list, and only received one
reply.  I was told to click "auto demix by note channel," which did _not_
solve the problem.  Someone please help... I really would like to be able to
realtime-record my plugin effect parameter tweaking on multiple tracks
(audio instrument and buses).

-Nick Gold, funkelectric.com
----------

From: Nick Gold <nickgold42@...>
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 18:19:54 -0400
To: <logic-users@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: GEN: Recording automation of Audio Instruments and Buses
simultaneously -- help!

I am having some problems when it comes to recording/automating the tweakage
of virtual instrument and fx plugin parameters at the same time.  I am using
LAMP 4.7 on a G4 450 Sawtooth 384MB Mac OS 9.1.

Let's say I have a fairly complex virtual instrument/plugin fx chain going
on.  There are a number of different parameters I want to automate, so I put
some of my plugins on a bus (due to Logic's dynamic MIDI CC automation
system).

In the arrange window I have my audio Instrument track highlighted and
record-enabled, because that's necessary in order to hear it/get it to play.
But if I also want to record my tweakings on the Bus' effect plugins, should
I also record-enable to Bus-Automation track in the arrange window?  When I
try this now --  tweaking, say the third knob of ES-1, MIDI CC 67 (this is
just hypothetical), the third knob of the effect plugin I have in the first
insert slot of the Bus also moves around!  And vice versa -- tweaking the
fifth controller in the effect plugin on the Bus will cause the fifth
controller of ES-1 on the Audio Instrument track to move around.

Please, somebody help me.  I imagine my MIDI data is getting shot to a few
places at once.  If my Audio instrument track is set to MIDI channel 1,
could this be causing the problem?  Also, this is a big question:  How does
one Bus Automation object hold the recorded data for all of the buses?  Does
it depend on MIDI channel, MIDI ch. 1 controller data is for Bus 1, ch. 2 is
for Bus 2, etc.?

Please somebody clarify some of this for me -- The manual is less than
illuminating.  I figure out more and more every day, but I think some of you
vets might be able to push me along... :)

-Nick Gold, funkelectric.com 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nick
Not that this will help you, I too am desperate to learn the same thing as
you. i can't find anyone who knows this stuff.
Help required
Peace
Lee

A-Playback is a splitter with each channel chained to the appropriate
numbered track on the audio environment window. What you must do is set up a
splitter for the Audio Instrument, one for the Bus, and one for the Master
Outs. Then select the splitter in the arrange window your selected track.
Record all automation on this track. Remember which splitters are chained to
which channel strips in the environment. The more splitters you used, the
more separation of automation data you will have on each splitter track.
Good luck. It's actually quite easy. -Jer
-------------------------
Apple PowerBook G3 400Mhz
Mac OS 9.04
Logic Audio Platinum 4.7
384 MB of Ram (50MB dedicated to Logic)
Digigram VX Pocket sound card (driver 2.6.0)
Opcode MIDIport 32 with OMS 2.3.8
-------------------------
Jer Olsen, President
Global Express Media LLC
"The Mecca for Musicians"

Low-price duplication &
FREE industry resources!
http://MusicProTools.com/

> From: Nick Gold <nickgold42@...>
> Reply-To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 11:52:20 -0400
> To: <exs-users@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [exs] FW: GEN: Recording automation of Audio Instruments and Buses
> simultaneously -- help!
> 
> I originally posted this on the Logic-users list, and only received one
> reply.  I was told to click "auto demix by note channel," which did _not_
> solve the problem.  Someone please help... I really would like to be able to
> realtime-record my plugin effect parameter tweaking on multiple tracks
> (audio instrument and buses).
> 
> -Nick Gold, funkelectric.com
> ----------
> From: Nick Gold <nickgold42@...>
> Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 18:19:54 -0400
> To: <logic-users@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: GEN: Recording automation of Audio Instruments and Buses
> simultaneously -- help!
> 
> I am having some problems when it comes to recording/automating the tweakage
> of virtual instrument and fx plugin parameters at the same time.  I am using
> LAMP 4.7 on a G4 450 Sawtooth 384MB Mac OS 9.1.
> 
> Let's say I have a fairly complex virtual instrument/plugin fx chain going
> on.  There are a number of different parameters I want to automate, so I put
> some of my plugins on a bus (due to Logic's dynamic MIDI CC automation
> system).
> 
> In the arrange window I have my audio Instrument track highlighted and
> record-enabled, because that's necessary in order to hear it/get it to play.
> But if I also want to record my tweakings on the Bus' effect plugins, should
> I also record-enable to Bus-Automation track in the arrange window?  When I
> try this now --  tweaking, say the third knob of ES-1, MIDI CC 67 (this is
> just hypothetical), the third knob of the effect plugin I have in the first
> insert slot of the Bus also moves around!  And vice versa -- tweaking the
> fifth controller in the effect plugin on the Bus will cause the fifth
> controller of ES-1 on the Audio Instrument track to move around.
> 
> Please, somebody help me.  I imagine my MIDI data is getting shot to a few
> places at once.  If my Audio instrument track is set to MIDI channel 1,
> could this be causing the problem?  Also, this is a big question:  How does
> one Bus Automation object hold the recorded data for all of the buses?  Does
> it depend on MIDI channel, MIDI ch. 1 controller data is for Bus 1, ch. 2 is
> for Bus 2, etc.?
> 
> Please somebody clarify some of this for me -- The manual is less than
> illuminating.  I figure out more and more every day, but I think some of you
> vets might be able to push me along... :)
> 
> -Nick Gold, funkelectric.com
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> exs-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
>

Okay Jer, this helps quite a lot.  But can you perhaps be even more
specific?  The splitter objects have a SUM output, and then the 16
individual channels.  Let me set up a hypothetical situation, and you tell
me if it makes sense:

Let's say I have ES1 on an audio instrument track (assigned to MIDI channel
1).  I decide to keep it by itself on that track, and put an effect like
autofilter on Bus 1.  I want to be able to jam out and record all of my
"tweakings" both to ES1 and the Autofilter, but obviously I want the
automation data for ES1 on the audio instrument track and the automation
data for Autofilter on a channel splitter/Bus Playback track.

First of all, let's say I am going to be dealing with a number of buses in a
more complex setup than the one outlines above.  Would I use multiple
channel splitters cabled individually to different bus objects in the audio
layer of the environment?  Or would the one bus object that is present in
Logic's default template be able to record separate automation data for all
of the buses?  Does it depend on what MIDI channel that MIDI CC data is set
to?

Ahg, okay, see, now I'm starting to get all confused again.  Do I have to
select a channel splitter in the arrange window in order to record the
automation data to it?  That would seem to make sense, but then again, that
would seem to make it impossible to, in one swoop, record the automation to
the ES1 _and_ the Autofilter which would be on a separate Bus track.

Please help us newbies -- I get the impression that this is a FAQ for many
Logic users, and I will probably write a tutorial on this very subject once
I get it sorted out.  And Jer, mucho thanks for your help.

-Nick Gold, funkelectric.com

---------------
A-Playback is a splitter with each channel chained to the appropriate
numbered track on the audio environment window. What you must do is set up a
splitter for the Audio Instrument, one for the Bus, and one for the Master
Outs. Then select the splitter in the arrange window your selected track.
Record all automation on this track. Remember which splitters are chained to
which channel strips in the environment. The more splitters you used, the
more separation of automation data you will have on each splitter track.
Good luck. It's actually quite easy. -Jer 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> "tweakings" both to ES1 and the Autofilter, but obviously I want the
> automation data for ES1 on the audio instrument track and the automation
> data for Autofilter on a channel splitter/Bus Playback track.

It will not be on the same track. It will be on the associated splitter
track in the arrange window. Also, when assigning splitters to the
Instruments or Buses, run the splitter channel to the corresponding stip
channel (to keep things organized and less confusing). Use a separate
splitter for each audio section: Audio (already there: A-Playback), Audio
Instruments, Busses, Master Outs. All your "tweaks" will be on the splitter
tracks in arrange, not on the Instrument or Audio tracks. You can use more
than one splitter for each type, or even one for each instrument, just keep
your numbers straight and name each splitter, that way all your automation
data can be separated by instrument-per-track instead of all instruments or
busses on one.
> 
> Logic's default template be able to record separate automation data for all
> of the buses?  Does it depend on what MIDI channel that MIDI CC data is set

This has never worked for me. I've had to set up splitters for the Busses.
Only the audio tracks have a default splitter attached. I recommend copying
"A-Playback" in the arrange, renaming it and chaining it to the desired
strips.
> 
> Ahg, okay, see, now I'm starting to get all confused again.  Do I have to
> select a channel splitter in the arrange window in order to record the
> automation data to it?  That would seem to make sense, but then again, that
> would seem to make it impossible to, in one swoop, record the automation to
> the ES1 _and_ the Autofilter which would be on a separate Bus track.

Yes, but I don't know if you could do both at once or not. Remember you've
got one splitter for the ES1 and one for the Bus.
> 
> Please help us newbies -- I get the impression that this is a FAQ for many
> Logic users, and I will probably write a tutorial on this very subject once
> I get it sorted out.  And Jer, mucho thanks for your help.

Actually, it hasn't really come up, but it's important knowledge of how to
use the environment. I stumbled on it myself the first time I tried to
automate a VST filter.

> ---------------
> A-Playback is a splitter with each channel chained to the appropriate
> numbered track on the audio environment window. What you must do is set up a
> splitter for the Audio Instrument, one for the Bus, and one for the Master
> Outs. Then select the splitter in the arrange window your selected track.
> Record all automation on this track. Remember which splitters are chained to
> which channel strips in the environment. The more splitters you used, the
> more separation of automation data you will have on each splitter track.
> Good luck. It's actually quite easy. -Jer

I wouldn't bother with one splitter per track personally- i find  1 splitter
per each 16 audio objects is fine, (including masters and buses and VST
instruments- those I had to make myself.)
Just make sure 'icon' is turned on for your splitters (in environment) in
arrange, go into record and record your moves.
Once you get this much you could re read the manual cause it will probably
make sense now.

If you wanted to automate (like you said) one bus and one audio track or any
situation involving two different splitters you'd have to go into record on
both tracks at once. Multitrack record. i think it can be done, but I've
never done it...I';m a bit of a one thing at a time girl, y'see....but if
you work it out, let us know...!!!
Maybe record enable with option held down, or something?

I'd like to thank Jer and Barbara for their advice -- it's all making sense
to me now!  I'm realizing that my biggest source of confusion was trying to
combine the automation methods for the adaptive track mixer, and the audio
layer of the environment.  Now I see that for my purposes, doing all of the
automation through the environment is the only way to go.  What's cool is
that the environment totally makes sense to me now (previous experience with
Max/MSP helped me understand the paradigm fairly quickly).

One last thing -- Jer and Barbara commented that I would need to create a
channel splitter for bus automation.  For some reason, my default
environment already has a bus automation object, with channel one cabled to
Return/Bus 1, channel 2 to Bus 2, etc.  This is the same thing as a channel
splitter, correct?

Take care all -- I am going to have a blast with Logic today!

-Nick Gold, funkelectric.com