EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

Hi people,
We DO have a full version of all the PMI pianos (Bosendorfer 290, Steinway D
and Yamaha) in our on-line store. They are avilable on CD (obviously with
the compressed Rar files) and as uncompressed EXS data on DVD's. Our first
batch of Light Edition cd's suffered from an ugly UDF/ISO problem that made
them hard to read on some non-UDF enabled MAC OS computers, but we solved
all that and both the CD's and DVD's are now ISO and UDF compatible.

All these new products were added to our on-line shop last week. We're
distributing them via our own on-line store (www.postpiano.com) and
distributors worldwide are picking them up slowly. EastWest, Time+Space,
Krypton is selling some of them. Best Service will follow.
But we also deliver duty-free worldwide without additional shipping costs so
that shouldn't be a problem.

Sorry for the shameless plug but we have a special EXS page here:
http://www.postpiano.com/basishtml/kontaktdemo.html
and demos that were made with the EXS sampler here:
http://www.postpiano.com/basishtml/exshal.html
and the latest EXS program files updates can be found here:
http://www.postaudiomedia.com/basishtml/updates.html

By the way, most of my other libraries (Harpsichords, Organs, Accordions)
are all available in native EXS format now. When you select them in our
on-line store there is a format pop-up box where EXS can be selected.

Hope this answers some of the questions raised here.

Michiel Post

Creative Director,

Post Musical Instruments
Post Audio Media

Rijnstraat 4
1078 RA Amsterdam
Netherlands

voice:+31.20.4041.687
fax: +31.20.4041.689

   Post Musical Instruments                 /   |   \              Post
Audio Media
www.postmusicalinstruments.com                     www.postaudiomedia.com
                                            e-mail: mpost@...

>    From: Jeff Fisher <jefisher@...>
> Subject: Re: Bosendorfers again
>
> The PMI is fantastic, dunno about the Bardstown. Caveat: the PMI comes
> as a .exe file which needs to be decompressed in Windows. When I told
> EastWest about this (no PC here)...they immediately decompressed it and
> sent me a DVD which I then converted to EXS...Same day!! Great company.
> If you go this route, you will need to edit the keymaps, because the
> pedal down groups were then playing at the
> same time as the pedal ups. Not a big job.
> This piano is awesome though, for sound and dynamics, hard to imagine
> anything better.
>
> Jeff
> >
> >   Obviously, implementation into EXS24 has to be considered as well,
> > since the PMI piano doesn't have a native EXS24 version. I know this
> > has
> > been discussed before, but if anybody who has experience with both
> > libraries has a recommendation given the current PMI price reduction,
> > I'd
> > love to hear it--other than the obvious "buy both":)
> >
> > Sean McCoy

>Hope this answers some of the questions raised here.
>
>Michiel Post

Thanks Michiel, it does. On the subject of my other question about more 
aggressive playing, do you feel the Bosendorfer is still the best bet, or 
would your Steinway work better?  With recorded acoustic pianos, I've found 
that a great piano will generally (but not always) work in any style, since 
a big, full sound will hold up under pop-style processing during mixdown. I 
don't know if the same holds true with sampled pianos.

At 10:34 AM 8/21/03 -0700, you wrote:

> >Hope this answers some of the questions raised here.
> >
> >Michiel Post
>
>Thanks Michiel, it does. On the subject of my other question about more
>aggressive playing, do you feel the Bosendorfer is still the best bet, or
>would your Steinway work better?  With recorded acoustic pianos, I've found
>that a great piano will generally (but not always) work in any style, since
>a big, full sound will hold up under pop-style processing during mixdown. I
>don't know if the same holds true with sampled pianos.

My opinion isn't really any good since I'm a lousy piano player per se, by 
if I do play I'm not Mr. Mush. All I can say is that when I played it I 
kept playing it and playing it. The fact that it was extremely responsive 
and sounded very real brought me into it. I really liked the ambience, 
which doesn't say a lot for aggressive playing maybe, I wish I know how it 
laid into a mix.

Garth Hjelte
Sampler User

> > On the subject of my other question about more aggressive 
playing, do you feel the Bosendorfer is still the best bet, or would 
your Steinway work better?  

Hi,
Regarding agressive playing; every well recorded grand piano can be 
used for every style of music. The Bosendorfer is no exception to 
that rule. Listen to Tori Amos to name one example.
One remark though, when playing pop/rock style of music it can help 
to make the decay of our piano a bit shorter. Simply taking the 
overall release setting back a little (say below 170 ms will help).
This way the release tail will not be too muddy or confusing during 
staccato, rhytmic and agressive playing. 

Another thing is that you would need to use different audio plug-ins 
to get that direct, in-the-face, pop sound. It's like you are in the 
recording studio; when you want a specific sound, set up the 
instrument, start playing with your magic toolbox and experiment 
untill you have that "magic" sound you are looking for. 

A good multi-band compressor (like the Waves C4) does a great job in 
getting a perfect pop sound. Never tested the Emagic plug-ins in such 
detail but any multi-band compressor can help to get that focussed 
strong piano sound. Also don't be afraid to use severe EQ's for rock. 
You can always rely on a good equaliser to adapt a sample to the 
style of your music. Heavy compression is often used to keep a piano 
in front of a mix. There are good articles on how to mix a grand 
piano on the internet. 

Michiel Post

michielpost2003 wrote:
>>>On the subject of my other question about more aggressive 
> playing, do you feel the Bosendorfer is still the best bet, or would 
> your Steinway work better?  
> 
> Hi,
> Regarding agressive playing; every well recorded grand piano can be 
> used for every style of music. The Bosendorfer is no exception to 
> that rule. Listen to Tori Amos to name one example.

Thanks Michiel - any track(s) in particular?

> Another thing is that you would need to use different audio plug-ins 
> to get that direct, in-the-face, pop sound. It's like you are in the 
> recording studio; when you want a specific sound, set up the 
> instrument, start playing with your magic toolbox and experiment 
> untill you have that "magic" sound you are looking for. 

I used to practise every day on a fantastic 92-note B\ufffdsendorfer, and 
when I played it really hard (which I often did, like, so that the 
strings almost twanged against each other) it had the ballsiest, 
meatiest sound I could possibly want from a piano, especially in the 
lower register. No audio plug-ins, EQ or compression required. 
(Although, if you're into excess, as many of us sometimes are, they 
certainly wouldn't hurt! ;-) )

So I, too, would love to know which sampled piano provides this sound, 
and is therefore most suitable for aggressive playing. Are you saying, 
Michiel, that either your Steinway or your B\ufffdsendorfer has this sound?

I spose I'm sort of asking (Michiel or anyone else who cares to answer) 
"How hard was the piano played while you recorded your loudest samples? 
Did the strings almost twang against each other?"


Cheers,   Bill Canty

Right on! We recorded the loudest velocity level with maximum force!
During the recording session this means that you have to retune the 
whole piano after several notes because the strings start to vibrate 
that much that everything goes out of tune....

Normally you would not reach the FFF samples layer that much, but you 
can easily modify the patches so that the FFF-layer is starting from 
a lower verlocity number in order to get a full agressive tone.

I never really did that but the effect is the same as when I add -say-
 30 to the  velocity levels of a track. Off coarse I would lose some 
dynamics then.

Best,

Michiel Post

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Bill Canty <bill@b...> wrote:
>Are you saying, 
> Michiel, that either your Steinway or your Bòsendorfer has this 
sound?
> 
> I spose I'm sort of asking (Michiel or anyone else who cares to 
answer) 
> "How hard was the piano played while you recorded your loudest 
samples? 

> Did the strings almost twang against each other?"
> 
> 
> Cheers,   Bill Canty

michielpost2003 wrote:
> Right on! We recorded the loudest velocity level with maximum force!
> During the recording session this means that you have to retune the 
> whole piano after several notes because the strings start to vibrate 
> that much that everything goes out of tune....

Oooh - sounds like my kinda piano sample! :o)

Thanks Michiel - you've answered the question loud and clear! 
(Appropriately enough)


Another question though: is Grandioso FX only for PC, or for Mac too?


Cheers,   Bill Canty