The Logic Off Topic list

Hi David,

I haven't really been able to follow this lengthy thread, which started after the tragedy of September 11th. It is this last
contribution of yours that came as a bit of a shock to me. Because, whatever most of the US critics on this list said, we don't
all feel like that. In fact, few people in Europe hate America. Most people like America, but it's difficult for some to admit
to it. Amongst left-wing intellectuals and the educated 'classes' it has been a must for many years to criticise the US for its
'cowboy' mentality and the way this is supposed to have an influence on everything America does. Unfortunately, a lot of these
people don't know  Americans any more than fleetingly; much they know about the States comes from Hollywood films, TV series and
CNN news reports from the Gulf War. Isn't it funny then, how Europe is influenced by the American way of life? Many aspects of
American life have been happily taken on - and mixed with - Europeanisms over the years, and the American-'haters' refuse to be
aware of it.

The truth of the matter is - we all laugh at each other's idiosyncracies and character traits, and the criticism levelled at
each other has a quality of friendly rivalry, like between siblings or friends, even if it often sounds more serious than that.
European societies are distinctly different to American society in that the latter is relatively free of historically inherited
burdens, regional chauvinism and nationalistic jealousy. Europeans tend to be much more cynical, while Americans may come across
to us as being 'naive'. On the other hand, Europe, for historical reasons again, is more open-minded, and tolerant in terms of
ideologies. Europeans seem to be better at sorting out problems quietly. I believe (and I have first-hand experience of
societies on both sides of the pond) that this is mainly the cause for any friction between Americans and Europeans. Some
Europeans are also a bit scared of being bullied or patronised by the US. Perhaps these people should be somewhat more confident
about themselves.

Well, David, don't take these discussions to heart. If you came to visit Britain, Spain, Germany, Italy, etc., you would love
it, including the people. They might discuss these things with you in the pub, because this is what they do. It's not meant as
offensively as it sounds!

The real haters of Americans you will not find here in Europe; they are currently taking shelter somewhere in the mountains of
Afghanistan, planning their next act of terrorism against Americans, Britains, Germans, French or Australians.

Cheers,

Recky

david@... wrote:

>     I've been standing back reading all these true feelings and
> comments from all the european members here have, and I want to say
> how it has affected me. I am American, I was born here, and have never
> been fortunate enough to be able to travel outside of this country.
> Truly I will admit my ignorance on many levels about world affairs,
> and what may or may not be truth about what has been said here on this
> list.
>
>     Until I joined these international lists, I never had the
> opportunity to discuss subjects with my fellow human beings from all
> over the world. I'm just a regular guy with feelings just like anyone,
> I care about the hurt and pain that people all over the world
> experience, and often cry over something that I hear about that makes
> me wonder what it must be like for those people who are having to live
> through some awlful life that has come their way. The church that I
> attend has for years spent millions going to other countries to try
> and help the unfortunate, the poor, and the children of the poor.
> Sure, I agree, the in many of these instances, we hope for
> Christianity to spread there, but I don't really care about that so
> much, if they already have a faith that is working for them, any faith
> of love is good for me. I wish I knew how to do more for all the
> peoples that are in pain in the world, but I can't, all I can do is
> hurt for them in my own way.
>
>    I'm not alone in these feelings here in America. Most of us here
> are just regular human beings, and if we are wasting your planet, we
> didn't know that. We all live in the means that we can afford, and
> what we grew up with. I, personally, can't afford to be wasteful. If
> running my air conditioner when it's hot, or running the heat when
> it's cold, then I am wasteful, I have to pay for it. When I run out of
> gas in my car, I have to go get gas for it, if that wasteful, I'm
> guilty to that too.
>
>    I am always worried about the environment, what is happening to it
> because of industry, and all the polutants that they have caused. I'm
> always in favor of changes, and improvements that make for a cleaner,
> better world. As I said I'm ignorant to many of the things that the
> europeans have said about us. I thought (hoped) that we were all more
> friendly to each other than apparently we are. I truly do not have any
> ill feelings about you (europeans), like most of you apparently have
> for us. You guys aren't very friendly at all, IMO. I've been very hurt
> by what I read here by who I thought were merely fellow human beings.
> I had no idea how you really felt toward us.
>
>   From what I've read, I can see that there is much jealousy and
> hatred toward us. I don't know what I've done to deserve it, I never
> felt any hatred toward you. And if you would ask for any help, I and
> any friend of mine would want to help you. But you see that as a
> motive for trying to get something from you or take something from
> you. You can recite what you've read about us, and what you think to
> be true about us all you want, but you obviously don't know me, an
> American. All you know is what you have read or been told.
>
>   My feelings about all this is that, now I know what you really feel,
> you've made it clear, knowing the disgust that you have for us. That
> you think that WE are, and always have been the true problem of this
> world, and you are not. And that we never cared until now when it has
> come to our own soil, about the terrorisms that affects or will affect
> this whole planet, including where you live, sooner or later. That
> just isn't true at all, for me, and for anyone that I know.
>
>    I know that many of you almighty "wise" folks will say that I just
> can't stomach the truth. It's your truth, not mine. You don't know me,
> but still you don't like me, because I'm American. Well sooner or
> later, that's gonna cause me not to like you back. And for that I'm
> truly sorry.
>
> David Floyd
>
>
>
>
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