The Logic Off Topic list

Thoughts from the mind of Jeremy Martin, 21-10-2002:

>--- In logic-ot@y..., Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@k...> wrote:
>>  I know there are people who tried to send mail to this list which
>>  hasn't gotten through because the moderators deemed it
>>  inappropriate. I know of a specific case where
>>  the "inappropriateness" was nothing more than "disagreeing with the
>>  admins", and *that* annoys me even more.  It's still a free
>>  society, right?
>
>The only non-political posts I rejected were from Dennis Gunn, just
>calling me "disgusting" more or less, in many different ways - I
>wanted to take that conversation up with him privately as I didn't
>really feel like it belonged on the list. Didn't realize anyone would
>miss that, but since you insist, I won't spare you all from it any
>longer ..

It does belong on the list imo -- as long as whatever someone writes 
is triggered by what happens on this list, or by what the moderators 
decide or whatever.
If I write something on the list, or behave in a particular way that 
someone finds offensive or ridiculous, they have every right to say 
so in public.  It's then up to others maybe to decide on who is right 
and who is wrong.  I might then invite such a person to take it to 
private mail, esp. if it's of no further interest to the list, but 
the other is free to ignore such an inviation.

If you're a list-admin, I think you should exercise special care in 
forcing people to take things off-list.  Having the power and using 
it are 2 different things.

All my personal opinion of course, and not meant in any offensive 
way.  I just care more for freedom of speech than for anything else. 
Oh well, "anything else"...  my girlfriend might be the exception :-).

>consensus so far has been that it was a Good Thing that
>I temporarily moderated the list to put an end to that last nasty
>discussion, and if politics *are* allowed back on this list the same
>thing will happen the next time it gets equally nasty.

I don't agree that it got _that_ nasty.  Hey, a discussion about the 
Israeli/Palestine conflict is bound to become heated.  So what? 
Personally I'm just glad to see that people actually care enough 
about such matters to become "heated".  There's enough indifference 
in the world already.

In the past there have been list members who _really_ crossed a line, 
up to the point of openly becoming fascist about stuff, and 
threatening people.  Now *that's* a different story, and I think 
list-admins are there to correct such behaviour (i.e. expel someone 
from the list), but the case at hand was totally different...

>  > And then Joeri: no matter how much I like him and respect him (and
>>  I truly do), I don't see how his opinion is of much consequence. 
>>  Joeri stepped back as admin, and we now got to deal
>>  with "outselves" -- i.e. new admin team and subscribers.  Joeri's
>>  opinion is, in that sense, of no consequence imo.
>
>... which is exactly why Joeri said that he felt that the opinions of
>the other admins who were more heavily involved with this meant more.

... which is what I fully agreed with.

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html