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Re: [L-OT] A Desire To Learn

Re: [L-OT] A Desire To Learn

2001-09-25 by GAmoore@aol.com

>If that person is so concerned then 
>they have do avenues available to them. That person is a member of a nation 
>whose leader is democratically elected. 

Many of us here in the US had no wish for Bush to be elected and yet he 
was. And there is nothing that can be done for four years. 

I do agree with your call for solutions. In general two things - better 
understanding of each other, and methods of removing the environment that 
leads to conflict.

The US needs to find ways of supporting Israel which don't give them a 
blank check to abuse the Palestinians. Also the US population needs to be 
given a fairer view of what is happening over there.

I think the Moslems have to stop preaching death and hatred. I think they 
need true relgious scholars who heard of the 10 commandments. And I think 
the richer Arabs, Europe, and AMerica should help develop the poorer 
Arabs like Palestinians, Jordean, and Egypt to have a certain amount of 
prosperity and security, then much of the violence will stop.

Re: [L-OT] A Desire To Learn

2001-09-25 by Mike Cover

Yeah... I voted for our Warrior President...now we're gonna clean up a few Islamic Terrorists' asses for this:
photo prior to hit, with Atta and his stooges laughing all the way "in"...
http://humangnome.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: GAmoore@... 
  To: logic-ot@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 11:42 AM
  Subject: Re: [L-OT] A Desire To Learn


  >If that person is so concerned then 
  >they have do avenues available to them. That person is a member of a nation 
  >whose leader is democratically elected. 

  Many of us here in the US had no wish for Bush to be elected and yet he 
  was. And there is nothing that can be done for four years. 

  I do agree with your call for solutions. In general two things - better 
  understanding of each other, and methods of removing the environment that 
  leads to conflict.

  The US needs to find ways of supporting Israel which don't give them a 
  blank check to abuse the Palestinians. Also the US population needs to be 
  given a fairer view of what is happening over there.

  I think the Moslems have to stop preaching death and hatred. I think they 
  need true relgious scholars who heard of the 10 commandments. And I think 
  the richer Arabs, Europe, and AMerica should help develop the poorer 
  Arabs like Palestinians, Jordean, and Egypt to have a certain amount of 
  prosperity and security, then much of the violence will stop.


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Re: [L-OT] A Desire To Learn

2001-09-25 by Kool Musick

GAMoore wrote:

>Many of us here in the US had no wish for Bush to be elected and yet he
>was. And there is nothing that can be done for four years.

Be in opposition; stay informed; encourage all to vote.


>I do agree with your call for solutions. In general two things - better
>understanding of each other,
Better understanding comes by asking questions. And by listening.
It does not come by preaching.

>and methods of removing the environment that eads to conflict.
Doesn't come by fomenting conflicts on an email list; nor by saying things 
on email lists that are certain to be hurtful to others; nor by continuing 
to say them once their hurtfulness is known.
Not speaking to or of you personally.


>Also the US population needs to be
>given a fairer view of what is happening over there.
Forgive me if I am mistaken, but I believe that this suggestion is where 
all of this began.

>I think the Moslems have to stop preaching death and hatred.
Forgive me if I am mistaken, but Muslims are not the only people who preach 
death and hatred.
And nor are they the only people who preach tolerance and love.

>I think they
>need true relgious scholars who heard of the 10 commandments.
And ... forgive me for saying so but I think that there exist others who 
are urgenly in need of true religious sholars who have heard of such things 
as the Pali Canon, the Bhagavad Gita, and a host of other Sacred Books 
whose names could easily fill this email.

>And I think
>the richer Arabs, Europe, and AMerica should help develop the poorer
>Arabs like Palestinians, Jordean, and Egypt to have a certain amount of
>prosperity and security, then much of the violence will stop.

And ... I think the richer US citizens should help develop the poorer US 
citizens to have a certain amount of prosperity and security, then much 
violence done by one US citizen to another would also probably stop.


Kool Musick
Keep Musick Kool


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Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: [L-OT] A Desire To Learn

2001-09-25 by The Pupkid

on 25/9/01 5:42 pm, GAmoore@... at GAmoore@... wrote:

> I think the Moslems have to stop preaching death and hatred. I think they
> need true relgious scholars who heard of the 10 commandments.

I think the ten commandments state:  "Thou shalt not kill"

not  "Thou shalt not kill and unless they kill some of yours in which case
you've got carte blanche to blow them away, and a little collatoral damage
doesn't matter".

If we're going to talk about ethics wouldn't it be nice for our political
leaders to display some too??

Re: [L-OT] A Desire To Learn?

2001-09-25 by The Pupkid

on 25/9/01 5:42 pm, GAmoore@... at GAmoore@... wrote:

> I think the Moslems have to stop preaching death and hatred. I think they
> need true relgious scholars who heard of the 10 commandments.

I got really angry with this offensive generalisation and half-wrote an
exasperated reply, clicked on "send later", rather than "save as draft".
Hence the half-written earlier contribution. To be honest I don't want to
have another row.  I'm tired and I've got lots of work to do comping vocals
for the album I'm supposed to be working on at the mo.  So maybe here's a
better and more considered response.  I think it'll be my last contribution
to all this.


I think some incredibly ignorant things have been said in these discussions
and some incredibly well-informed and sober ones.  We have all to be aware
of blanket generalisations about matters about which we appear to know
little (like dismissing entire religions, peoples, races for example).

I'm afraid that some people on this list are mistaken in believing that it
is, at this time, either impolite, offensive or plain wrong to express a
little caution, or concern at the rhetoric issued by Western leaders such as
Bush and Blair (my leader), and the punitive actions they are hinting at.
In fact the opposite is the case - it's even more important to speak up now
and counsel caution.  But few people seem prepared to do so. The appalling
events of September 11th require us to stop and think very carefully before
retaliating.  This is no time for old-testament justice, or an Orwellian
total war ("Infinite Justice" - there's a terrifying choice of words),
never-ending, spreading fear and paranoia instead of easing it.

I don't want my government or the armed forces of my country to terrorise
innocent people;  to kill in my name, because some people still believe in
an eye for an eye.  There has to be a better way, and a safer way.  More
violence, more terror just makes people like Bin Laden stronger;  it
confirms their rhetoric and recruits new people to their cause.  The cycle
of violence continues and those who espouse it become stronger.

I'm not a Christian but I do believe that it would be useful to remember
some of Christ's teachings at these times - to be New Testament rather than
Old.  To end with this is a quote from the UK's Guardian newspaper, an op-ed
piece written by Madelaine Bunting  (24.9.01, p.17):

" the greatest contribution Jesus Christ made to humanity's ethical
understanding was that the instinct to revenge, retaliate and fight back
should be restrained.  Despite Christianity's waning influence, it was
precisely this ethical principle that we so admired in the greatest
political leaders of the last century:  Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King
and Gandhi.  Their leaderships all illustrated that the most effective way
to fight (though it requires huge patience) is through the moral example of
magnamity and restraint, and the huge political courage they require."

I think if we are sincere about the desire to learn,  we could do a lot
worse than starting somewhere like this.

peace,

pk

Re: Re: [L-OT] A Desire To Learn?

2001-09-26 by GAmoore@aol.com

>> I think the Moslems have to stop preaching death and hatred. I think they
>> need true relgious scholars who heard of the 10 commandments.
>
>I got really angry with this offensive generalisation

I have written many posts in support of Palestinian rights. However, the 
fact is, that you have huge groups of Moslems - especially in Afganistan, 
Pakistan, Egypt, and Iran who regularly chant "Death to America". Every 
two bit Mulah is advocating "Jihad" against the US. And if you have a 
billion people who feel that way, its not too hard to find 18 who are 
willing to come over and take flight lessons and fly some planes into big 
buildings.

I think the US policies are partly to blame, but there is some blame in 
the Arab world too. How can people in Palestine and Egypt celebrate when 
the WTC was destroyed? I have never heard of Americans cheering when 
Palestinian stone throwers were killed. 

All sides must accept some blame and move to correct these things.

Re: [L-OT] A Desire To Learn?

2001-09-26 by Mike Cover

...oh weepy-heart-non Christian...would that you be the one in this photo...or the family that was snatched from this unfortunate human being...
http://humangnome.com 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: The Pupkid 
  To: logic-ot@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 5:30 PM
  Subject: Re: [L-OT] A Desire To Learn?


  on 25/9/01 5:42 pm, GAmoore@... at GAmoore@... wrote:

  > I think the Moslems have to stop preaching death and hatred. I think they
  > need true relgious scholars who heard of the 10 commandments.

  I got really angry with this offensive generalisation and half-wrote an
  exasperated reply, clicked on "send later", rather than "save as draft".
  Hence the half-written earlier contribution. To be honest I don't want to
  have another row.  I'm tired and I've got lots of work to do comping vocals
  for the album I'm supposed to be working on at the mo.  So maybe here's a
  better and more considered response.  I think it'll be my last contribution
  to all this.


  I think some incredibly ignorant things have been said in these discussions
  and some incredibly well-informed and sober ones.  We have all to be aware
  of blanket generalisations about matters about which we appear to know
  little (like dismissing entire religions, peoples, races for example).

  I'm afraid that some people on this list are mistaken in believing that it
  is, at this time, either impolite, offensive or plain wrong to express a
  little caution, or concern at the rhetoric issued by Western leaders such as
  Bush and Blair (my leader), and the punitive actions they are hinting at.
  In fact the opposite is the case - it's even more important to speak up now
  and counsel caution.  But few people seem prepared to do so. The appalling
  events of September 11th require us to stop and think very carefully before
  retaliating.  This is no time for old-testament justice, or an Orwellian
  total war ("Infinite Justice" - there's a terrifying choice of words),
  never-ending, spreading fear and paranoia instead of easing it.

  I don't want my government or the armed forces of my country to terrorise
  innocent people;  to kill in my name, because some people still believe in
  an eye for an eye.  There has to be a better way, and a safer way.  More
  violence, more terror just makes people like Bin Laden stronger;  it
  confirms their rhetoric and recruits new people to their cause.  The cycle
  of violence continues and those who espouse it become stronger.

  I'm not a Christian but I do believe that it would be useful to remember
  some of Christ's teachings at these times - to be New Testament rather than
  Old.  To end with this is a quote from the UK's Guardian newspaper, an op-ed
  piece written by Madelaine Bunting  (24.9.01, p.17):

  " the greatest contribution Jesus Christ made to humanity's ethical
  understanding was that the instinct to revenge, retaliate and fight back
  should be restrained.  Despite Christianity's waning influence, it was
  precisely this ethical principle that we so admired in the greatest
  political leaders of the last century:  Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King
  and Gandhi.  Their leaderships all illustrated that the most effective way
  to fight (though it requires huge patience) is through the moral example of
  magnamity and restraint, and the huge political courage they require."

  I think if we are sincere about the desire to learn,  we could do a lot
  worse than starting somewhere like this.

  peace,

  pk


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [L-OT] A Desire To Learn

2001-09-26 by Mike Cover

"Anyhow Mike, I thank you for recognizing
the Palestinians right for freedom and not to be abused with US tax money
and weapons...
I Did??  That was a mistake!!

I have no compassion for a family that teaches 4 year olds to become
bombers...your people are all fucked up with your culture and your
sand-roaming genes...better you better stop going to the UN (which is make
up of third-world assholes like your people, for handouts...better that your
Arab brothers take the Palestinians into their own countriesand forget
parking next to...and working in Israel.  I'll never understand why the
liberal jews..peaceniks...every gave you a second chance to occupy land so
close to them when we all know ALL you want is the destruction of the Jewish
state and ALL Jews.  Now that it's open hunting season for Americans, I find
any utterance from you, my wildeyed musician, (and your anti-American
friends around the world)...DISGUSTING!  I see your people dancing in the
streets...the children of Moslem Tomorrows being taught to kill... and that
Christians and whites are EVIL.  Sad...Sad...Sad!!
They should shell your neighborhoods every night...you'd get the hell out of
there if the UN and rest of Moslems weren't behind you...funy
thing...they've never wanted you in their countries on a long-term basis,
either.  You destroyed many religious symbols around the world...including
Afghanistan that don't believe in your devil Moslem culture...Face it...it's
an extended war between you Fundamentalists and Crusaders of the 21st
Century.
I wouldn't support the terrorists anymore, if I were you...in word, song or
music!!
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: "LogicBaby" <basharar@...>
To: "Mike Cover" <vista500@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: [L-OT] A Desire To Learn


"You know, at first I did not want to bother replying because you sounded
like a Taxes cowboy ready to shoot..."
Yeah, yeah..Omar the tent maker...just don't come on my range!

Re: Re: [L-OT] A Desire To Learn?

2001-09-26 by Wilson Zorn

> the Arab world too. How can people in Palestine and Egypt celebrate when
> the WTC was destroyed? I have never heard of Americans cheering when

Just as a sidebar, one thing I noticed was when the media the week of the
9/11 showed pictures of "celebrations" in Palestine and Egypt, one thing is
that these were not large-scale.  In fact you could see nobody or a few
scattered people behind a thin veil of people in front of cameras.  Not to
say there weren't a couple parades somewhere, I don't know, but I think it
was
    a - too bad the media exagerrated/misled as the voiceover on the camera
implied a much more widespread event than what the camera showed, and only
if you looked at the picture in some detail
    b - good that we didn't see the mass celebrations implied

> All sides must accept some blame and move to correct these things.

Absolutely.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Re: [L-OT] A Desire To Learn

2001-09-26 by Wilson Zorn

Mike, thanks for your note, I'm all for Palestine, too, I also hope they get
their nation going soon!

Re: [L-OT] A Desire To Learn

2001-09-26 by Hendrik Jan Veenstra

Thoughts from the mind of Mike Cover, 9/26/01:

>I have no compassion for a family that teaches 4 year olds to become
>bombers...your people are all fucked up with your culture and your
>sand-roaming genes...
[directed at a Palestine fromthis list]

Weird... How come that someone who tries to conduct a reasonable 
discussion gets flamed to shreds & pieces, and someone like this MC 
is allowed to send multiple posts with this sort of discriminatory 
venom, and no-one speaks up on behalf of the one attacked?

Puzzled...

And LogicBaby: you're cool.  Don't let this sort of crap get to you.


cheers,
HJ
-- 
     Hendrik Jan Veenstra
     email: mailto:h@...
     www:   http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Re: [L-OT] A Desire To Learn

2001-09-26 by Wilson Zorn

To be fair, Hendrik, I think most people don't respond to Mike's notes
because he is a troll, not necessarily  by intent but by effect as his notes
are purely self-gratifying and there's no attempt to communicate (in fact,
he appears to be attempting to obfuscate his own communication here and
there), whereas other people here are actually participating, so will get
replied to, even flamed, as they're taken seriously.

----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@...>
To: <logic-ot@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: [L-OT] A Desire To Learn


> Thoughts from the mind of Mike Cover, 9/26/01:
>
> >I have no compassion for a family that teaches 4 year olds to become
> >bombers...your people are all fucked up with your culture and your
> >sand-roaming genes...
> [directed at a Palestine fromthis list]
>
> Weird... How come that someone who tries to conduct a reasonable
> discussion gets flamed to shreds & pieces, and someone like this MC
> is allowed to send multiple posts with this sort of discriminatory
> venom, and no-one speaks up on behalf of the one attacked?
>
> Puzzled...
>
> And LogicBaby: you're cool.  Don't let this sort of crap get to you.
>
>
> cheers,
> HJ
> --
>      Hendrik Jan Veenstra
>      email: mailto:h@...
>      www:   http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Re: [L-OT] A Desire To Learn

2001-09-26 by Spectro

>Thoughts from the mind of Mike Cover, 9/26/01:
>
>>I have no compassion for a family that teaches 4 year olds to become
>>bombers...your people are all fucked up with your culture and your
>>sand-roaming genes...
>[directed at a Palestine fromthis list]
>
>Weird... How come that someone who tries to conduct a reasonable
>discussion gets flamed to shreds & pieces, and someone like this MC
>is allowed to send multiple posts with this sort of discriminatory
>venom, and no-one speaks up on behalf of the one attacked?

Probably because even the more ascerbic posters on this list
realised there is no attempt at a rationalised response for that post.
(I read it all)...In any case, One of the ideas that got round on this
list was that retaliation will only invite further venom. That's one
that you would know HJ. If he says those things genuinely, it will
surely take more than any of us can say to convince him otherwise.
Fundamentalism knows *no* boundaries...

>
>And LogicBaby: you're cool.  Don't let this sort of crap get to you.
And to you both.  Just 'reading' most of these posts tired me out...

S.

Re: [L-OT] A Desire To Learn

2001-09-26 by LogicBaby

A person like you is not even worth talking to, because you are beyond the
level of a scum animal

Re: [L-OT] A Desire To Learn

2001-09-26 by LogicBaby

Christ was born in Palestine "Falistin is the Biblical language, spelled
Falastine is Arabic", 40% of the Palestinians are Christians and Mostly
white skinned, I have cousins with blond hair and green eyes Hitler!

>   I see your people dancing in thestreets...the children of Moslem Tomorrows
being taught to kill... and that Christians and whites are EVIL.
Sad...Sad...Sad!!

Re: [L-OT] A Desire To Learn

2001-09-26 by Mike Cover

Pooor Jan...I'm so sick and tired of "her" posts...I'll bet she even imagines her dress is torn...
What in God's name have you people ever done...except run...
hash shops, that is!!
Get a life and stop posting your anti-Americkan shit...or go to Afghanistan and wait for our Delta Force to give you a "wake-up call!!
-grandaddy
  "...And LogicBaby: you're cool...."

  Oh...Fuck off with your opinions!! You two were made for each other...wish you both had your legs inside the WTC when it "went"...I'd like to see how you'd be preaching this anti-American venom then!!??


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [L-OT] A Desire To Learn

2001-09-26 by Denizen

On Wed, 26 Sep 2001, Mike Cover wrote:

> Pooor Jan...I'm so sick and tired of "her" posts...I'll bet she even
> imagines her dress is torn... What in God's name have you people ever
> done...except run... hash shops, that is!!  Get a life and stop posting
> your anti-Americkan shit...or go to Afghanistan and wait for our Delta
> Force to give you a "wake-up call!!
> -grandaddy
>   "...And LogicBaby: you're cool...."
>
> Oh...Fuck off with your opinions!! You two were made for each
> other...wish you both had your legs inside the WTC when it "went"...I'd
> like to see how you'd be preaching this anti-American venom then!!??

Oh my... Are you serious?  I don't think I can bear to let Hendrik try
to respond to that with the polite and civil restraint he's shown so far.
I have no idea why people keep attacking him.  What has he said that
upset you?  You are behaving like the kind of American I'm ashamed to
share a country with, and you're exhibiting the exact same kind of
nationalism that got us into this mess in the first place (and exactly
what the angry Afghans are feeling against us when they torch our embassy
and call for the death of America).  Hendrik said it a dozen times; he
does not hate the USA.

And just so you can't attack me on the same grounds:

I am an American, and I love my country.  Even if it doesn't have
hash shops yet :-)

So PLEASE Mike... chill out.  You're making us look bad.

-Denizen

Re: [L-OT] A Desire To Learn

2001-09-26 by Mike Cover

"So PLEASE Mike... chill out.  You're making us look bad."
  -Denizen
  Hey baby...forgive and forget...right??  Maybe YOUR pad next.  Have you bought de mask?
       Bin Laden, the key suspect in the Sept. 11 terror attacks, also is believed by U.S. intelligence to have a secret nuclear weapons laboratory inside Afghanistan, say officials speaking on the condition of anonymity.
   ...contacts between bin Laden and the Russian mafia, and efforts to obtain materials used to make weapons of mass destruction, could not be ruled out because of Afghanistan's porous borders... Bin Laden has worked with Russian mafia groups in obtaining chemical and biological weapons materials and nuclear components!   "There are signs they have been supplying [bin Laden] with chemical and biological materials and nuclear components...Transporting and then using weapons of mass destruction is difficult, though al Qaeda's use of suicide attackers makes the use of deadly chemical, biological or nuclear weapons somewhat easier, those familiar with terrorist tactics and capabilities say.
       U.S. intelligence agencies have information that bin Laden is operating a secret nuclear weapons laboratory somewhere in Afghanistan. The laboratory is believed to be where bin Laden associates are working on developing nuclear or radiological weapons. Radiological weapons are bombs that kill by spreading radioactive material. This is believed to be one of the sites sought for U.S. military strikes, expected in the next several weeks.
       A recent foreign intelligence service report stated that al Qaeda has obtained some type of nuclear device, but U.S. intelligence officials said they could not confirm that report. The new intelligence report on bin Laden's contacts with the Russian mafia provide new details on al Qaeda's efforts to obtain weapons of mass destruction.
       An FBI court document made public in 1998 in New York stated that al Qaeda has tried to purchase enriched uranium since 1993 "for the purpose of developing nuclear weapons." The State Department's latest report on international terrorism says that al Qaeda "continued" to seek chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear capabilities.
       Intelligence officials say classified analysis of the types of chemicals and toxins sought by al Qaeda indicate the group probably is trying to produce the nerve agent Sarin, or biological weapons made up of anthrax spores. Sarin can be produced from the components used to make fertilizer and kills by disrupting the central nervous system. Anthrax is a highly lethal biological weapon that causes death after spores are ingested.
       At its height during the Cold War, the Soviet biological weapons program employed some 65,000 persons, and U.S. officials have feared for years that some of the out-of-work biological weapons scientists would sell their expertise to terrorists like bin Laden



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Re: Re: [L-OT] A Desire To Learn

2001-09-27 by GAmoore@aol.com

Mike Cover wrote :
>"Anyhow Mike, I thank you for recognizing
>the Palestinians right for freedom and not to be abused with US tax money
>and weapons...
>I Did??  That was a mistake!!

His mistake, I was the one who said that.

>I have no compassion for a family that teaches 4 year olds to become

Do you remember that movie "Red Dawn" about Russian and Cuban troops 
landing in Colorado. Patrick Swaze and his high school buddies went into 
the hills and formed a guerilla band that killed soviet troops with hit 
and run tactics. And we cheered and were proud to be Americans. Well 
imagine that this goes on for 50 years. 

Can you understand complete and utter frustration. When you have kicked 
out of your land, when you live in a dusty refugee camp your whole life, 
when you are hated and allowed to do only garbage collector jobs, when 
your economy is screwed, when young people are shot dead for throwing 
stones on a daily basis, when you have no where to go, and it goes on 
like this for years and decades, the hatred would build in you too.


>bombers...your people are all fucked up with your culture and your
>sand-roaming genes...better you better stop going to the UN (which is make

you are angry about the WTC, but the Palestinians didn't do it. In fact, 
some of the hijackers and Bin Laden's top two advisors are actually 
Egyptians - you know Egypt the country we give $3,000,000,000 a year to.


>I'll never understand why the
>liberal jews..peaceniks...every gave you a second chance to occupy land so

Because they need a place to live. Peace is in the best interest of the 
security of Jews. 

>close to them when we all know ALL you want is the destruction of the Jewish
>state and ALL Jews.  

You need to not confuse the Nazi's anti-semitism based on rasicsm, with 
the Arab hatred of Israelis based on their deeds. 


>any utterance from you, my wildeyed musician, (and your anti-American
>friends around the world)...DISGUSTING!  

I am American, by the way, my ancestors came over on the Mayflower. My 
father fought in WWII against the Japanese.

>I see your people dancing in the
>streets...

Well I agree with you, that sucked. Some Egyptians danced too. However, 
that was a small minority. Their leaders did not dance. In fact, they 
have renewed efforts to make peace.


>They should shell your neighborhoods every night...

Well, they often do. And that is exactly why they hate the ones rocketing 
and shelling them. THey have no artillery, tanks, or attack helicopters 
to fight back. What kind of one sided war is this? 


>either.  You destroyed many religious symbols around the world...including
>Afghanistan that don't believe in your devil Moslem culture...

Well you are quite wrong here. that is the Taliban in Afgan that did 
that. Even other Moslem countries urged them not to do that.


>I wouldn't support the terrorists anymore, if I were you...in word, song or
>music!!

How about "Yankee Doodle Came To Town" or "The Battle Hymn of the 
Republic"


And the final word is this, America just paid with 6,500 lives for our 
blind sighted support of Israel without any control over their abuses. 
Instead of blaming the oppressed, why not blame the oppressors who 
created this cauldron of hatred.

Re: [L-OT] A Desire To Learn

2001-09-27 by Hendrik Jan Veenstra

Thoughts from the mind of Wilson Zorn, 9/26/01:

>To be fair, Hendrik, I think most people don't respond to Mike's notes
>because he is a troll, not necessarily  by intent but by effect as his notes
>are purely self-gratifying and there's no attempt to communicate (in fact,
>he appears to be attempting to obfuscate his own communication here and
>there), whereas other people here are actually participating, so will get
>replied to, even flamed, as they're taken seriously.

Ah, so the fact that I get flamed and Mike gets away with his venom, 
is a kind of compliment towards me.  I see.

I truly _do_ see the logic & reason behind such thinking.  Still it 
would have been nice , in my opinion, if anyone had actually "stuck 
up" (if that's the expression) for LogicBaby, who has been a 
long-standing and appreciated member of the LUG community.

At the moment I see there are more posts in this thread, so indeed 
maybe in the meantime some _have_ stepped in, in defense of LB.  I'll 
just read on...


cheers,
HJ
-- 
     Hendrik Jan Veenstra
     email: mailto:h@...
     www:   http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Re: [L-OT] A Desire To Learn

2001-09-27 by Hendrik Jan Veenstra

Thoughts from the mind of Mike Cover, 9/26/01:

>Pooor Jan...I'm so sick and tired of "her" posts...I'll bet she even 
>imagines her dress is torn...

Hi honey, I'm home...

>What in God's name have you people ever done...except run... hash 
>shops, that is!!

Oh man, this surely must be a baaaad trip...  Gotta get me some 
better shit next time...

>   Oh...Fuck off with your opinions!! You two were made for each 
>other...wish you both had your legs inside the WTC when it "went"...

Judging from the level of your incredible reasoning-skills, you 
probably had your head inside the WTC when it went.  Poor you.



-- 
     Hendrik Jan Veenstra
     email: mailto:h@...
     www:   http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Re: [L-OT] A Desire To Learn

2001-09-28 by Dennis Gunn

At 10:47 AM +0200 9/27/01, Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote:
>
>I truly _do_ see the logic & reason behind such thinking.  Still it
>would have been nice , in my opinion, if anyone had actually "stuck
>up" (if that's the expression) for LogicBaby, who has been a
>long-standing and appreciated member of the LUG community.

All right I will.

LogicBaby's opinions are highly colored but quite understandably so. 
It is unfortunate for him that that particular hue is not very 
popular right now.  That is not to say that I agree with him but 
simply that I can understand why he feels the way he does.   In my 
opinion he is a pretty decent guy and has given a lot more sympathy 
than he has gotten.  He also has shown a lot more tolerance than many 
in his circumstances would.  Obviously more in fact than many do.
-- 


                                 Dennis Gunn
                                 Mightyjohn@...

                  check out  MIGHTY JOHN HENRY's album "hot air head"
                                                    info at
                        http://www.twics.com/~mightyjo/home.html

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