The Logic Off Topic list

Although I didn't necessarily agree with Frank I think he has his rights to
say what he said off the list and I think that he wasn't trying to be rude
of anything.

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Matthews" <Groovey@...>
To: <pipeline@...>
Cc: "logic off topic" <logic-ot@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:07 PM
Subject: [L-OT] Re: logic OT- this message is very strange.


> > John
> >
> > I think you take ( with others) the OT too far
> > please stop the useless discussions about politics
> > Tjhere are othergroups for that.
>
> Frank,
> I havent talked about this politics for a while- over a week. what are you
> on about???
> I have copied the OT list in on this as I dont like your tone, my friend.
>
> Maybe the truth hurts? and anyway, the OT list is for off topic subjects-
> that means anything at all can be discussed.
>
> > But just stop it.
> > Please
>
>  no, I will send e-mails if I see fit. This is freedom of speech.
>
> Please read below- this is not a good example of e-mail ettiquete.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Frank <pipeline@...>
> To: John Matthews <Groovey@...>
> Sent: 04 October 2001 08:38
> Subject: logic OT
>
>
> > John
> >
> > I think you take ( with others) the OT too far
> > please stop the useless discussions about politics
> > Tjhere are othergroups for that.
> >
> > It does not hurt me : all your mail goes automatically to the trash can
> here.
> > Means IF you have something interesting , nobody will see it.
> >
> > But just stop it.
> > Please
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > Frank W. Kooistra
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Yes, I agree he has his right to say what he wants on the list- and so do I,
which is my point.

The point is, Frank is trying to moderate the OT list. The only person to do
this should be Joeri, and in cases where one member insults another or is
out of order.

Please clarify Joeri- is this an OT list or not, ie, can we post what we
want or do the OT list postings also have to relate to Logic??

I thought the original idea of this list was to keep the OT stuff off the
main list.

On reflection, I dont think was being rude- I think he is confused about the
purpose of the OT versus the regular Logic lists.

regards
John
----- Original Message -----
From: Wilson Zorn <wilson.zorn@...>
To: <logic-ot@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 05 October 2001 04:17
Subject: Re: [L-OT] Re: logic OT- this message is very strange.


> Although I didn't necessarily agree with Frank I think he has his rights
to
> say what he said off the list and I think that he wasn't trying to be rude
> of anything.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Matthews" <Groovey@...>
> To: <pipeline@...>
> Cc: "logic off topic" <logic-ot@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:07 PM
> Subject: [L-OT] Re: logic OT- this message is very strange.
>
>
> > > John
> > >
> > > I think you take ( with others) the OT too far
> > > please stop the useless discussions about politics
> > > Tjhere are othergroups for that.
> >
> > Frank,
> > I havent talked about this politics for a while- over a week. what are
you
> > on about???
> > I have copied the OT list in on this as I dont like your tone, my
friend.
> >
> > Maybe the truth hurts? and anyway, the OT list is for off topic
subjects-
> > that means anything at all can be discussed.
> >
> > > But just stop it.
> > > Please
> >
> >  no, I will send e-mails if I see fit. This is freedom of speech.
> >
> > Please read below- this is not a good example of e-mail ettiquete.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Frank <pipeline@...>
> > To: John Matthews <Groovey@...>
> > Sent: 04 October 2001 08:38
> > Subject: logic OT
> >
> >
> > > John
> > >
> > > I think you take ( with others) the OT too far
> > > please stop the useless discussions about politics
> > > Tjhere are othergroups for that.
> > >
> > > It does not hurt me : all your mail goes automatically to the trash
can
> > here.
> > > Means IF you have something interesting , nobody will see it.
> > >
> > > But just stop it.
> > > Please
> > >
> > > Kind regards
> > >
> > > Frank W. Kooistra
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Guys, before we get too upset, just because this is an OT list, that doesn't
mean that it's necessarily any and all subjects.

And there are lot sof OT lists that while OT, there's a "range" of OT so to
speak that's allowable.  Many OT lists do not intend to see politics and
such.

Although I do like that this OT list is totally broad and I thank Joeri for
that, I don't think it's unfair for someone to campaign to us individually
to try to get us to think differently about its use.

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Matthews" <Groovey@...>
To: "logic off topic" <logic-ot@yahoogroups.com>; <pipeline@...>
Cc: <joeri@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 10:57 PM
Subject: [L-OT] Re: logic OT- this message is very strange.


> Frank,
> I think you misunderstand the point of this list.
> This is an OT list- that means  "OFF TOPIC" man!
>
> > Of topic logic related.  Politics of this nature have no relation with
the
> > use of logic and an environment of studio technicians/Musicians
>
> if you were complaining about the regular logic list then I would agree.
> THIS IS THE OFF TOPIC LIST- dont you understand???
>
> I do not post off topic to the regular list, or is that what you would
want
> me to do??
>
> I'll continue to post what ever I want , when ever I want. If you dont
like-
> there is allways the delete key.
>
> this is my last word on this particular attempt to censor the OT list. (In
> case you didnt understand OT stands for OFF TOPIC)
>
> regards
>
> John
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Frank <pipeline@...>
> To: John Matthews <Groovey@...>
> Cc: <joeri@...>
> Sent: 04 October 2001 21:35
> Subject: Re: logic OT- this message is very strange.
>
>
> > On Thursday 04 October 2001 21:07, you wrote:
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > > I think you take ( with others) the OT too far
> > > > please stop the useless discussions about politics
> > > > There are othergroups for that.
> > >
> > > Frank,
> > > I havent talked about this politics for a while- over a week. what are
> you
> > > on about???
> >
> > John
> >
> > I have not exempted you, rather wrote everybody who joined the
discussion.
> >
> >
> > > I have copied the OT list in on this as I dont like your tone, my
> friend.
> > My tone was simple,  and was a repeat of wat was already voiced before
in
> the
> > list.  I took it as it should out of plublicity, directly to each person
> > involved.  and I merely referred to the location of the discussion.
> >
> > > Maybe the truth hurts?
> > No, It hurts to see people dying because of violence.
> > The only stand i took is the location of the dsicussion
> >
> > >and anyway, the OT list is for off topic subjects-
> > > that means anything at all can be discussed.
> >
> > Of topic logic related.  Politics of this nature have no relation with
the

> > use of logic and an environment of studio technicians/Musicians
> >
> > >
> > > > But just stop it.
> > > > Please
> > >
> > >  no, I will send e-mails if I see fit.
> >
> > Send the emails to the persons concerned.
> >
> > > This is freedom of speech.
> >
> > Freedom of speach does not mean that one can say anything anywhere.
> > Neither makes it sense to do so.
> > I merely make you attend that this is not the right location for these
> > subjects. Invite everybody to join that group.
> >
> > > Please read below- this is not a good example of e-mail ettiquete.
> >
> > Have reread it ; see nothing abusive , nor disrespect, not an attack on
> > anybodies integrety.
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > Frank
> >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Frank <pipeline@...>
> > > To: John Matthews <Groovey@...>
> > > Sent: 04 October 2001 08:38
> > > Subject: logic OT
> > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > > I think you take ( with others) the OT too far
> > > > please stop the useless discussions about politics
> > > > Tjhere are othergroups for that.
> > > >
> > > > It does not hurt me : all your mail goes automatically to the trash
> can
> > >
> > > here.
> > >
> > > > Means IF you have something interesting , nobody will see it.
> > > >
> > > > But just stop it.
> > > > Please
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards
> > > >
> > > > Frank W. Kooistra
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

>> I think you take ( with others) the OT too far
>> please stop the useless discussions about politics
>> Tjhere are othergroups for that.

>I have copied the OT list in on this as I dont like your tone, my friend.

Pretty mild condemnation actually. No insults, no death threats, or 
veiled threats of any kind. I wouldn't take it too seriously.

At 12:54 AM -0700 10/5/01, Wilson Zorn wrote:
>Guys, before we get too upset, just because this is an OT list, that doesn't
>mean that it's necessarily any and all subjects.
>
>And there are lot sof OT lists that while OT, there's a "range" of OT so to
>speak that's allowable.  Many OT lists do not intend to see politics and
>such.
>
>Although I do like that this OT list is totally broad and I thank Joeri for
>that, I don't think it's unfair for someone to campaign to us individually
>to try to get us to think differently about its use.

Yeah but writing someone to tell them that all their mail goes in 
your trash and to stop posting things that are not of interest to you 
is not polite.  It is also strange that someone would take it upon 
themselves to try to define the breadth of "Off Topic".

Also what is it that we are supposed to think differently about?   As 
I understand it this is a group of people who by sharing their 
experience with a certain product have somewhere along the road 
gotten the idea that they are interested in each other enough to 
share their views on other matters as well.   So that we could do 
this without interfering with the functioning of the LUG Joeri was 
kind enough to create a forum for that to happen.  Who is Frank 
Koistra to come in here and tell us what we should or should not be 
talking about.
-- 


                                 Dennis Gunn
                                 Mightyjohn@...

                  check out  MIGHTY JOHN HENRY's album "hot air head"
                                                    info at
                        http://www.twics.com/~mightyjo/home.html

As a person who reads but has rarly posted to the off topic, I 
somehow did have the opinion that it was created to discus topics 
that were related to subjects, that are related to logic. like 
microphones or "which monitors", recording techniques, etc.
I'm definitely not trying to tell anybody what to , or not to 
post,but I've always sort of thought it was the "LOGIC of topic" list.
If some how moves away from audio stuff and focusses on politics and 
religeon..I'm outa here.
But who would care... not me really, there are other forums for audio 
as there are for politics, though i do see it as some kind of benefit 
that when we discuss audio stuff, others can maybee relate better[to 
some subjects] as they are logic users also.
 
Maak Bow

<stuff snipped>

> Yeah but writing someone to tell them that all their mail goes in
> your trash and to stop posting things that are not of interest to you
> is not polite.  It is also strange that someone would take it upon

I sort of think the same thing but I'm giving Frank the benefit of the doubt
that the way it came across had a lot to do with this command of the English
language.  I could be wrong but am being charitable.

<stuff snipped>

Maybe we need a L-0T-OT list. Or maybe we have to label some things in 
the OT list as "way OT" or just "OT". 

>As a person who reads but has rarly posted to the off topic, I 
>somehow did have the opinion that it was created to discus topics 
>that were related to subjects, that are related to logic. like 
>microphones or "which monitors", recording techniques, etc.
>I'm definitely not trying to tell anybody what to , or not to 
>post,but I've always sort of thought it was the "LOGIC of topic" list.

But all that stuff is perfectly valid on the regular list. Mics, 
recording, etc.

> 
> But all that stuff is perfectly valid on the regular list. Mics, 
> recording, etc.

Not really, and it has been asked to be moved here.
People post it any way , and Joeri seems to be letting it thru, 
especially recently, but I have seen a lot of it, asked to be moved 
here 

maak Bow

At 4:13 AM -0400 10/7/01, GAmoore@... wrote:
>Maybe we need a L-0T-OT list. Or maybe we have to label some things in
>the OT list as "way OT" or just "OT".

Or maybe we need fewer Chiefs and more Indians.

In addition to everything else we fight about do we also have to 
fight about what we are going to fight about?


When your band finishes a rehearsal or gig or session and goes out 
for a drink do you tell anyone who is not talking shop to shut up? 
If they give you their take on current events do you tell them that 
you have other friends that you can to about that stuff with and you 
don't want to hear about it from them?  Do you forbid them to expand 
on their theories regarding the strange correlation between sun spots 
and red jelly bean production in the latter half of the 20th century?


*I* find it interesting to learn about the people I have been talking 
to on the LUG.  For example I find I have a new respect and interest 
in logicbaby and am thankful that I have the chance to correspond 
with real live Palestinian and see him as a real person with real 
interests that I share rather than just another victim or protagonist 
in another awful news story.  Personally it has been a real help in 
restoring my sympathy from the damage done to it by the news.

Off Topic is by nature a broader category than On Topic.  It is 
pointless to try to define it is it not?

  We are living in interesting times and sometimes these *times* are 
even more interesting for us than the latest mic or speaker.  What 
kind of people would we be if they weren't?  I truly hope that that 
changes soon.  But until it does (and even after for that matter) I 
think people should be allowed to speak about the things that are 
heavy on all our minds without getting hassled by Frank Koistra.
-- 


                                 Dennis Gunn
                                 Mightyjohn@...

                  check out  MIGHTY JOHN HENRY's album "hot air head"
                                                    info at
                        http://www.twics.com/~mightyjo/home.html

> > But all that stuff is perfectly valid on the regular list. Mics,
> > recording, etc.
> Not really, and it has been asked to be moved here.
> People post it any way , and Joeri seems to be letting it thru,
> especially recently, but I have seen a lot of it, asked to be moved
> here 

The acoustics etc will be moved to the OT list. Yesterday there were 
suddenly a lot of posts, but I only got the chance to check today... 
Usually I'm letting about 5  ails of a OT thread through.

-- 
Joeri Vankeirsbilck
joeri@...

Belway Productions      -     http://www.belway.com
List-admin   Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM