MOTM

I just love envelope generators. But I would really, really like to have
more control over them than just "set and tweak manually." I want VC EGs!
Hell, while I'm requesting them again, let's make them more robust. What
about an 8-stage envelope?

I'm going to get a repetitive strain injury soon from tweaking my attack and
decay times in realtime!

I know what you said before, Paul, but if you make VC EGs, I will use them
like mad. I think a lot of other people would too.

Who's up for VC, bigger than ADSR (or the on-the-horizon DADSR) EGs? Speak
up!

David Bivins

PS--does anyone else here struggle almost daily with the urge to sell almost
all non-modular gear to fund more modular gear? Tough life ;)

Well, there is a VC'd DADSR on the "planned modules" list tacked up on my
lab bench......

Paul S.

----- Original Message -----
From: David Bivins <dbivins@...>
To: MOTM <motm@onelist.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 4:18 PM
Subject: [motm] VC EGs


> From: "David Bivins" <dbivins@...>
>
> I just love envelope generators. But I would really, really like to have
> more control over them than just "set and tweak manually." I want VC EGs!
> Hell, while I'm requesting them again, let's make them more robust. What
> about an 8-stage envelope?
>
> I'm going to get a repetitive strain injury soon from tweaking my attack
and
> decay times in realtime!
>
> I know what you said before, Paul, but if you make VC EGs, I will use them
> like mad. I think a lot of other people would too.
>
> Who's up for VC, bigger than ADSR (or the on-the-horizon DADSR) EGs? Speak
> up!
>
> David Bivins
>
> PS--does anyone else here struggle almost daily with the urge to sell
almost

> all non-modular gear to fund more modular gear? Tough life ;)
>
>
>
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>

>Who's up for VC, bigger than ADSR (or the on-the-horizon DADSR) EGs? Speak
>up!

i'll second that.  i need a VC EG.  the attack knob is getting worn out :P
having the decay controllable would be sexy.  i need a dual eg.

>PS--does anyone else here struggle almost daily with the urge to sell
almost
>all non-modular gear to fund more modular gear? Tough life ;)

no david, just you :)

-steve

In a message dated 00-01-30 15:20:32 EST, you write:

<< 
 Who's up for VC, bigger than ADSR (or the on-the-horizon DADSR) EGs? Speak
 up!
 
 David Bivins
 
 PS--does anyone else here struggle almost daily with the urge to sell almost
 all non-modular gear to fund more modular gear? Tough life ;)
  >>



david,
i`d certainly like to see something along the lines of a more complex 
multi-segment contour generator than the normal  (d)adsr. if you are into 
some serious d.i.y., i recall that electronotes had published n article on an 
"articulating contour generator" that let you add more complex transients. of 
course, you can always use the approach of using a sequencer and adjustable 
slew limiter as a kludge for doing more complex envelopes, too.  still, even 
i`m forced to admit that for about 80 % of the fooling around i do, adsr`s or 
summed, delayed adsr`s cover things. this is an area thats waiting for a good 
idea and implementation to bring it all together and make us move on from our 
normal adsr`s.  one other point, sometimes, complex isn`t better and i`ve 
found lots of cases where a simple attack only or decay only slope has been 
useful. s****  has in the past or currently explored this and d****** has a 
decay only unit available at a very reasonable price.
best,
dave
p.s. - i know the "sell" feeling but at this point beyond my base modular, i 
have only a casio cz101 and a miracle keyboard and i seriously doubt that 
either has any intrinsic value. i do find them both useful, however, in the 
roles they serve for me.

I like the VC DADSR idea.  I'd use a few.  If you want more stages, just
use multiple DADSRs with more "D" on the second one or use a VC switch to
control the later stages.

BTW, I just got the Wendy Carlos "Switched on Boxed Set" last week and
*wow*!  I had heard most of the earlier stuff but the remastering really
makes these 30 year old recordings sparkle.  There is also some great
"experiments" on the first two CDs that give you a bit of insight into the
process they used to make these recordings.  There is also quite a bit of
information in the books and on the fourth CD on the Moog modular, Wendy's
method for "storing" patches and other neat stuff.  If you are ever at a
loss for timbral ideas using a modular synth, just listening to a few
seconds of these classics will either depress you because they are so good,
or give you a wealth of new ideas to try.  Highly recommended!

	Eric

In a message dated 1/30/2000 1:20:32 PM, dbivins@... writes:

>I want VC EGs!
>Hell, while I'm requesting them again, let's make them more robust. What
>about an 8-stage envelope?
>I'm going to get a repetitive strain injury soon from tweaking my attack
>and
>decay times in realtime!

I agree with VC EGs, although I think 8 stages (I'm wondering what the stages 
would be) is a bit much, at least for an analog module (remember, each pot 
adds about $10 to the module). I also recall Paul mentioning that DoMoaS 
would be a good module for multi stage envelopes in which one could define 
one's own stages and their number. BTW, why don't we just start calling 
DoMoaS "MOAS," since it will obviously be a killer, and not "the ninth or 
tenth greatest sequencer around."

>I know what you said before, Paul, but if you make VC EGs, I will use them
>like mad. I think a lot of other people would too.


Me for example!!!

>Who's up for VC, bigger than ADSR (or the on-the-horizon DADSR) EGs? Speak
>up!


I don't know. For a dedicated analog VC EG, I think the 5 stage would be 
quite impressive -- but there could be room for a uP device that could be 
configured to allow weirder envelope shapes.

>PS--does anyone else here struggle almost daily with the urge to sell almost
>all non-modular gear to fund more modular gear? Tough life ;)


John (I just purchased an old truck -- with incredibly low mileage -- to 
assure my continued participation in the MOTM fun) Barlow

>From: "David Bivins" <dbivins@...>
>
>I just love envelope generators. But I would really, really like to have
>more control over them than just "set and tweak manually." I want VC EGs!
>Hell, while I'm requesting them again, let's make them more robust. What
>about an 8-stage envelope?


hello all
yep - i'd be up for a super eg. again, anything that i can plumb my S&H into
is a welcome addition - maybe i'll rephrase that - anything i can bolt into
my motm chassis is a welcome addition. i too daily struggle with my
conscience on funding issues, last year i bought a job lot of vintage reslo
ribbon mics, with the idea of reselling for well over treble what i paid for
them and thusly funding a big pile of new modules - yeah i've still got the
mics - they are very cute...

anyway - big question, how is the VC applied to a VCEG..? would there be one
vc input for attack, one for decay..? one vc input for each stage..? or
what..? might this module have an envelope follower tacked onto it as
well..? nudge nudge wink wink :-)

cheers
paul b

The VC EGs that I've seen allow for a voltage to be applied to each one of
the stages or knobs.  So, you usually end up with double the number of
knobs, one for the initial value, and one to attenuate the CV.  For a VC
DADSR, we would be looking at 10 knobs, unless Paul has some clever ideas
about distributing the incoming VC.  I think it would be very rare that you
would need to control more than a few stages of a DADSR in one patch, so
that might save some knobs and jacks....

An envolope follower is a completely different beast that is usually put
together with a preamp.  The *output* of an envelope follower can usually go
to a DADSR though.

	Eric

> anyway - big question, how is the VC applied to a VCEG..? 
> would there be one
> vc input for attack, one for decay..? one vc input for each 
> stage..? or
> what..? might this module have an envelope follower tacked onto it as
> well..? nudge nudge wink wink :-)

Yes, the Carlos set is well worth the money, even if, like me, you already
own multiple copies of those albums on LP & CD! These are the definitive
versions, and I'd have paid the cover price for the two little 'books' that
come with them alone! Great photos of her modular.

I also recommend the Sonic Seasonings and Clockwork Orange remasters, with
their extra material and high quality mastering. The Heaven & Hell disc is
worth getting but I was a little disappointed with it to tell the truth.

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Eric S. Crawley [mailto:esc@...]
		Sent:	Sunday, January 30, 2000 8:04 PM
		To:	motm@onelist.com
		Subject:	Re: [motm] VC EGs



		BTW, I just got the Wendy Carlos "Switched on Boxed Set"
last week and
		*wow*!  I had heard most of the earlier stuff but the
remastering really
		makes these 30 year old recordings sparkle.  There is also
some great
		"experiments" on the first two CDs that give you a bit of
insight into the
		process they used to make these recordings.  There is also
quite a bit of
		information in the books and on the fourth CD on the Moog
modular, Wendy's
		method for "storing" patches and other neat stuff.  If you
are ever at a
		loss for timbral ideas using a modular synth, just listening
to a few
		seconds of these classics will either depress you because
they are so good,
		or give you a wealth of new ideas to try.  Highly
recommended!

To me, it would seem that the ideal VCADSR would have:

Knobs for:

	Delay
	Attack
	Peak Hold
	Decay
	Sustain
	Release

(I could live without peak hold, but have used it on some synths and it *is*
kinda nice to have... initial (or 'Gate') delay seems rare on ADSRs but is
VERY useful. Either it should be built in, or possibly for more flexibility,
should be a different module. As a separate module, both the attack and
release of the gate can be separately controllable, and the unit can be used
for more than just controlling a single ADSR, of course.)

For jacks, obviously you would want VC over as many of the above individual
parameters as possible. But it would be nice if there was a way, as Eric
hinted, to 'distribute' yet another CV input that would affect several of
the parameters simultaneously. So that a higher CV, say, could dramatically
sharpen the attack, slightly extend the decay, somewhat raise the sustain,
greatly extend the release... you get the idea.

Seems like it would end up being a nightmarish 5u panel, though. I guess it
could be implemented with a microprocessor to add complexity and save panel
space, but then we start drifting away from the beauty of analog and lots o'
knobs.

Although DoMoaS sounds like it could be used a s a complex contour
generator, it would seem a shame to tie up such a device with enveloping
functions.

As long as it has knobs and not just a keypad, I could get jiggy wit it.

Are you thinking 8 full stages, or 8 parameters along the lines of a Yamaha
DX/TX EG?

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	The Old Crow [mailto:oldcrow@...]
		Sent:	Monday, January 31, 2000 10:53 AM
		To:	'motm@onelist.com'
		Subject:	RE: [motm] VC EGs

		From: The Old Crow <oldcrow@...>


		  What would people think about an 8-stage EG with VC inputs
based on a
		fast microcontroller with some 12/16-bit A/Ds, DACs and
mux-s/h.  Good old
		PIC or Z8 single chip uP would be fairly simple to set up
for ~2ms to 20s
		times without audible stepping given sufficient DAC
resolution.

		  To make LEDheads happy, could have transition-state LED
indicators for
		when one stage transited to the next.

		  Just curious,

		Crow

		/**/


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------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can you make the attenuators *reversible* MOTM ones, so that, say, a
NEGATIVE control voltage for the Attack will allow the envelope to start
BEFORE the key on the keyboard is actually depressed?

:-)

More coffee, need... more... coffee....

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	The Old Crow [mailto:oldcrow@...]
		Sent:	Monday, January 31, 2000 11:06 AM
		To:	'motm@onelist.com'
		Subject:	RE: [motm] VC EGs

		From: The Old Crow <oldcrow@...>


		On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Tkacs, Ken wrote:

		> As long as it has knobs and not just a keypad, I could get
jiggy wit it.

		  *Of course* it would have knobs. :)  Those Paul S. special
"Initial
		CV-becomes-CVin attenuator" type knobs.  Of course that
means 8 knobs, heh
		heh.  And 12 jacks.  (+Vout, -Vout, 8 EG setting CVs, step
gate-ins). 
		Sounds like its time for the 3U aluminum.

		> Are you thinking 8 full stages, or 8 parameters along the
lines of a Yamaha
		> DX/TX EG?

		  Its a microcontroller.  Add a panel switch, choose your
poison!

		/**/

What would people think about an 8-stage EG with VC inputs based on a
fast microcontroller with some 12/16-bit A/Ds, DACs and mux-s/h.  Good old
PIC or Z8 single chip uP would be fairly simple to set up for ~2ms to 20s
times without audible stepping given sufficient DAC resolution.

  To make LEDheads happy, could have transition-state LED indicators for
when one stage transited to the next.

  Just curious,

Crow

/**/

Definitely---ultimately I think I'd like to tie my modular in with my
E-Trade account.

Actually, that's not a bad idea... when my stock goes up it can
automatically order another MOTM module for me...

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	The Old Crow [mailto:oldcrow@...]
		Sent:	Monday, January 31, 2000 11:47 AM
		To:	'motm@onelist.com'
		Subject:	RE: [motm] VC EGs



		  If I manage to do that, I'll get it to make stock picks,
too. ;)

On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Tkacs, Ken wrote:

> As long as it has knobs and not just a keypad, I could get jiggy wit it.

  *Of course* it would have knobs. :)  Those Paul S. special "Initial
CV-becomes-CVin attenuator" type knobs.  Of course that means 8 knobs, heh
heh.  And 12 jacks.  (+Vout, -Vout, 8 EG setting CVs, step gate-ins). 
Sounds like its time for the 3U aluminum.

> Are you thinking 8 full stages, or 8 parameters along the lines of a Yamaha
> DX/TX EG?

  Its a microcontroller.  Add a panel switch, choose your poison!

/**/

> > Can you make the attenuators *reversible* MOTM ones, so that, say, a
> > NEGATIVE control voltage for the Attack will allow the envelope to start
> > BEFORE the key on the keyboard is actually depressed?
> >
> > :-)
>
> Now THAT'S what I'm talking about. A pre-cog MOTM module. Now we're
talkin'!

how about a module that will program the 303 for me...oh wait...roland
thought of that with the "turn mode switch while running" command.

-steve

On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Tkacs, Ken wrote:

> Can you make the attenuators *reversible* MOTM ones, so that, say, a
> NEGATIVE control voltage for the Attack will allow the envelope to start
> BEFORE the key on the keyboard is actually depressed?
> 
> :-)

  If I manage to do that, I'll get it to make stock picks, too. ;)

  --Crow

/**/

Hi John n All !

An excellent design for multi stage eg's are those on the EPS16+ 
sampler .  Each stage has a time and two different levels .  The 
actual point used , between these two is dependent on a modulation 
input .  Zillions of possibilities .  Should be \ufffdC based methinks, 
too expensive otherwise, one set of knobs per section does not limit 
the number of sections, as pure hardware would :) .  A connection to 
(Do)Moas could give separate controls to each section, provided the 
Domoas front panel could be made multi-functional .

I would not drop the Moas/Domoas distinction .  While the latter may 
be in this year's pipeline, the former should remain up there, as a 
dream to aspire to ;-) , even if realization is currently not on the 
cards .

In the spirit of MOTM i'd suggest adding a Peak time parameter 
between the a and d .  Adds oodles of punch to sounds that need it .  
With fairly fast attack and decay settings and low sustain, the 
initial "hit" can sound somewhat frail .  A small full range peak 
does make a big difference .  The F\ufffdnix has this on it's EG1, and 
it's been said that this is one of the very characteristic Minimoog 
traits .

Bye for now .


Keep 'em oscillating :)


Hugo (who's been driving sh for ever, just got another one ;-) )
=

> From: "Tkacs, Ken" <Ken.Tkacs@...>
>
>
> Can you make the attenuators *reversible* MOTM ones, so that, say, a
> NEGATIVE control voltage for the Attack will allow the envelope to start
> BEFORE the key on the keyboard is actually depressed?
>
> :-)

Now THAT'S what I'm talking about. A pre-cog MOTM module. Now we're talkin'!

I, too, would love a VC EG.  I only fairly recently got the tip of altering
the decay based on note pitch on a EG tied to a VCA.  I.E., high pitch
sounds die quickly, while bass sounds sustain.  Duh.  Maybe there's an
easier way of accomplishing this?

I've been reading the Sound On Sound "Synthesis Secrets" series of articles
to get me up to speed on modular synthesis.  The last two have dealt with
EGs, in particular complex EGs.  I'm looking forward to slaughtering some
brass-like sounds.
 	
--PBr, who also has to struggle to balance saving for a new car, funding
household expenses, and BUYING MORE GEAR!

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	David Bivins [SMTP:dbivins@...]
> Sent:	Sunday, January 30, 2000 2:19 PM
> To:	MOTM
> Subject:	[motm] VC EGs
> 
> From: "David Bivins" <dbivins@...>
> 
> I just love envelope generators. But I would really, really like to have
> more control over them than just "set and tweak manually." I want VC EGs!
> Hell, while I'm requesting them again, let's make them more robust. What
> about an 8-stage envelope?
> 
> I'm going to get a repetitive strain injury soon from tweaking my attack
> and
> decay times in realtime!
> 
> I know what you said before, Paul, but if you make VC EGs, I will use them
> like mad. I think a lot of other people would too.
> 
> Who's up for VC, bigger than ADSR (or the on-the-horizon DADSR) EGs? Speak
> up!
> 
> David Bivins
> 
> PS--does anyone else here struggle almost daily with the urge to sell
> almost
> all non-modular gear to fund more modular gear? Tough life ;)
>

In a message dated 1/31/2000 8:08:05 AM, oldcrow@... writes:

>  *Of course* it would have knobs. :)  Those Paul S. special "Initial
>CV-becomes-CVin attenuator" type knobs.  Of course that means 8 knobs,
>heh
>heh.  And 12 jacks.  (+Vout, -Vout, 8 EG setting CVs, step gate-ins). 
>Sounds like its time for the 3U aluminum.


Interesting idea! I was thinking that maybe you could get away with fewer 
pots if you were doing some ADC/DAC things which might reduce cost and panel 
size. I could be wrong though!

>> Are you thinking 8 full stages, or 8 parameters along the lines of a
>Yamaha
>> DX/TX EG?
>
>  Its a microcontroller.  Add a panel switch, choose your poison!

This is interesting as well, if I understand this correctly, since you might 
be able to reconfigure the 8 stages to do somewhat different things at 
different times.

I'm interested!
JB

In a message dated 00-01-31 09:55:36 EST, you write:

<<   Just curious, >>
  crow,
sounds like it might be a nice module. i`m not really familiar with pic or z8 
microprocessors - would they be fast enough to allow multiplexing to create 
several ( 4 maybe or 8 ) separate envelopes ? plus, unless the cost 
differences were negligible, i would think that a 10 bit d/a would work 
nicely and that 16 bit would be overkill for this application - ?
best,
dave

On 1/31/00, The Old Crow <oldcrow@...> wrote:
>
>  What would people think about an 8-stage EG with VC inputs based on a
>fast microcontroller with some 12/16-bit A/Ds, DACs and mux-s/h.  Good old
>PIC or Z8 single chip uP would be fairly simple to set up for ~2ms to 20s
>times without audible stepping given sufficient DAC resolution.
>
>  To make LEDheads happy, could have transition-state LED indicators for
>when one stage transited to the next.

It would HAVE to have a gate-detected indicator LED at least, and you
could flash that when it changes stages.  My latest (2 year old) idea
for a multi-stage EG consists of a series of 8 stages, with each stage
having 3 parameters:  ramp-to voltage, ramp rate and sustain switch.
The ramp-to voltage and ramp rate allow various timings and slopes, and
the sustain switch causes the processor to stick on that stage until
it detects a gate off.  I planned on using a PIC chip as a controller
for JH's VC EG idea using 2 NPN and 2 PNP transistors.  This seemed to
be easier than using a DAC.  I would use a window comparator to determine
when to change stages.  This is quite similar to the Roland MKS-50 EG,
only extended beyond ADSR.

I would LOVE for something like this to become a MOTM module!

I would envision a multi-stage EG as having 15 or more knobs and 
6 sustain switches; or 2 rotary encoders, 3 push-buttons and 
an LCD panel [add 8 jacks for voltage controll].  The buttons would 
be next/prev stage and sustain toggle.  You could also use the 
next/prev buttons as next/prev feature if you added several parameters
to each stage.

The 16 knob variant starts sounding like a sequencer doesn't it?
Either way, a PIC controller tied to an analog VC-EG stage would 
allow for voltage control without worrying about stepping.

Either way, I'm not against your idea, and in fact would like to 
have one.  You could add a gate delay, and a punch option to a
digital EG quite easily.  And for what it's worth, I vote for
using a PIC since I already have a PIC programmer.

Regards,

Roy Tate

Roy Tate
roytate@...

Before this idea disappears in the wake of rail concepts I'd like to 
acknowledge both Hugo's and Roy's ideas (who've both obviously given this 
more thought than I have). But I want to differ with Roy about the 15 pots 
three rotary encoders (and a partridge in a pair tree) kind of module that I 
imagine might be approaching $500. I would think that three controls which 
could be assigned to each stage via an assignment control would be a good 
money/utility compromise.

I'd also like to express a desire for a different kind of EG: a triple (or 
quad even) AD/AR generator. These simple envelopes could be combined or used 
as CV sources for PWM or VCQ to greatly enrich timbres.

JB

In a message dated 00-02-01 21:02:43 EST, you write:

<< I'd also like to express a desire for a different kind of EG: a triple (or 
 quad even) AD/AR generator. These simple envelopes could be combined or used 
 as CV sources for PWM or VCQ to greatly enrich timbres.
 
 JB >>



john,
certainly a very valid point well taken!!!!!
plus, they can be very simple and inexpensive circuits to build ( always a 
point in anythings favor !! ) which makes putting 2,3 or 4 on a panel simpler.
don`t know if this has ever been broached on the list before but what about a 
modified adsr where the "s" isn`t a level but rather sets a sustain time ( ie 
: envelope generator would fire from either a trigger or a gate but sustain 
wouldn`t be affected by gate presence, it would be the time that the voltage 
sat at the point on the decay curve and held until the set time duration was 
over at which point the envelope would proceed to complete the "r" stage.
is this hard to do? does anyone besides me think it would be a useful 
difference?
best,
dave

Hear, hear, on the multiple EG module!  I'd rather have lots of little EGs
than one massive one that I can't visualize the shape of because I need to
scroll through multiple "menues" of encoded values.  The reason I like
modulars is that I can see everything that is part of a patch and can
easily visualize the shape and settings by the knobs or sliders.  Let's
stay away from anything that takes encoders, except for sequencers.

	Eric

Actually, that brings up an interesting idea. A VC AR would be much simpler
and smaller than a full blown VC ADSR to implement & use and could still be
used in parallel with a 'static' ADSR to achieve VC envelope-changing
effects (i.e. Touch sensitivity effects).

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	JWBarlow@... [mailto:JWBarlow@...]
		Sent:	Tuesday, February 01, 2000 9:01 PM
		To:	motm@onelist.com
		Subject:	RE: [motm] VC EGs


		I'd also like to express a desire for a different kind of
EG: a triple (or 
		quad even) AD/AR generator. These simple envelopes could be
combined or used 
		as CV sources for PWM or VCQ to greatly enrich timbres.

I have to echo this sentiment. Unless there's REALLY no way to do something
(as with the complexity of a sequencer, perhaps), personally I'd rather
stick to knobs & switches.

I already have a room full of ESQ-Ms, TX-81Zs, various Proteus modules,
DVP-1s, and so on and so on... all with little weenie displays and data
knobs... and what do I do? I decided to go buy a modular synthesizer to get
*away* from it all. I would hate to see my modular start looking like my
rack of Proteuses (Proteii?).

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Eric S. Crawley [mailto:esc@...]
		Sent:	Tuesday, February 01, 2000 10:53 PM
		To:	motm@onelist.com
		Subject:	RE: [motm] VC EGs

		I'd rather have lots of little EGs
		than one massive one that I can't visualize the shape of
because I need to
		scroll through multiple "menues" of encoded values.  The
reason I like
		modulars is that I can see everything that is part of a
patch and can
		easily visualize the shape and settings by the knobs or
sliders.  Let's
		stay away from anything that takes encoders, except for
sequencers.

I second (or third) that statement. What good is an analog modular if you
have to "surf" through an abysmal menu system to change or see your
settings.  -Nate

> From:
>"Tkacs, Ken" <Ken.Tkacs@...>
>
>
>
>
>I have to echo this sentiment. Unless there's REALLY no way to do something
>
>(as with the complexity of a sequencer, perhaps), personally I'd rather
>
>stick to knobs & switches.
>
>
>
>I already have a room full of ESQ-Ms, TX-81Zs, various Proteus modules,
>
>DVP-1s, and so on and so on... all with little weenie displays and data
>
>knobs... and what do I do? I decided to go buy a modular synthesizer to get
>
>*away* from it all. I would hate to see my modular start looking like my
>
>rack of Proteuses (Proteii?).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>            -----Original Message-----
>
>            From:      Eric S. Crawley [mailto:esc@...]
>
>            Sent:      Tuesday, February 01, 2000 10:53 PM
>
>            To:      motm@onelist.com
>
>            Subject:      RE: [motm] VC EGs
>
>
>
>            I'd rather have lots of little EGs
>
>            than one massive one that I can't visualize the shape of
>
>because I need to
>
>            scroll through multiple "menues" of encoded values.  The
>
>reason I like
>
>            modulars is that I can see everything that is part of a
>
>patch and can
>
>            easily visualize the shape and settings by the knobs or
>
>sliders.  Let's
>
>            stay away from anything that takes encoders, except for
>
>sequencers.
>
>
>
>                 
>
>
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A guy can't go to work for one day without having the MOTM list go wild with 
visions of VC EGs. Unfortunately, under the influence of the evil Moe, many 
great opportunities are missed all for the sake of his self serving schemes 
to control the world through the use (misuse) of MOTM equipment. Ah, if only 
he'd use his talents for good, and not evil!

Now for the side of right and truth!

1) A 2U dual (or even a 3U triple) would be preferred over a 1U single -- 
though I could live with 1U.

2) While the evil Bradley would like to see a gate LED, I find that an LED 
which follows the output voltage of EGs is much more enjoyable to watch -- it 
has a soothing effect (Moe likes the blinky ones since they cause a more 
agitated state in the general populace).

3) If there is an end pulse (a pulse which goes high at the end of the cycle) 
to be used for retriggering the EG, one would need a mixer if one were to use 
the EG as a triggerable LFO since there is only one input -- I do like the 
idea of the end pulse though, for those of you new to the list. If one had a 
"CYCLE" switch (somewhere) one could still use the gate input -- but the END 
output should still stay!

4) The Delay is also a good idea, and there seems to be a lot of interest. 
Yet another reason why we shouldn't be limited to the 1U (single EG) format.

5) I have to differ with Dave V.'s point about having a sustain length 
control. I think controlling the time domain of the sustain parameter would 
be more easily be done by controlling the length of the incoming gate signal. 
I should also mention that I tend to prefer varying gate lengths over static 
ones anyway since it sounds more natural to me -- there is an interesting 
take on this in the Digisound schematics though which uses a CEM 3310 to make 
the sustain have a decaying contour similar to a piano I think.

6) I am interested in Hugo's idea of a peak length control since I've done 
the tiniest amount of experimenting with this and found it to be a very 
powerful tool as he suggested! I'm not sure this warrants a pot, however, 
possibly a three position switch -- anybody have any useful ideas about this?


Finally, I haven't finished with the Crow, Roy, Hugo, et al. super whiz bang 
gotta read a twenty page manual to get it to do anything costs about $800 
scroll through a hundred menus VC EG, I'll get back to it soon. But I'm glad 
everyone sees the usefulness of the AD/AR EG -- and I really like the VC part 
(thanks, as always, to Ken for pointing us in this direction)!

Gotta quit my day job so I don't miss this useful MOTM development time!
JB

In a message dated 2/2/2000 7:23:58 PM, that handsome and brilliant, 
incredibly funny, and modest JWBarlow@... writes:

>3) If there is an end pulse (a pulse which goes high at the end of the
>cycle) 
>to be used for retriggering the EG, one would need a mixer if one were
>to use 
>the EG as a triggerable LFO since there is only one input -- I do like
>the 
>idea of the end pulse though, for those of you new to the list. If one
>had a 
>"CYCLE" switch (somewhere) one could still use the gate input -- but the
>END 
>output should still stay!

How about a three position switch AR AD LFO -- this would free up the 
GATE/TRIG input. Again? The END output should still stay!


JB