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SuperMoe feature

SuperMoe feature

2001-01-28 by revtor@aol.com

Sorry if this is starting this whole thread, but these are my favorite types 
of threads..

2x8 or 1x16 sounds great paul.  for a modular I think most people aren't 
looking for sequencers to write songs on anyway..
but short arpeggio lie lines are nice.

here's my request   two knobs per step.  CV and gate length (time)..   with 
the gate length set to 0 then there wouldn't be a gate signal for that step 
and with it set to max (depending on clocking speed) the gate would tie from 
one note to the next..  basic, useful feature.

Hey Paul, this is the first block in the "Modular Sequencer" line... keep it 
modular!!!!  bit by bit, module by module, this is the way!!!  Make this 
first one open for future additions..  (maybe a rear connector to link other 
seq modules in a normalled way, like trigs and clock etc......)

later,
~steve M

Re: [motm] SuperMoe feature

2001-01-28 by James Hendry, Sr.

Steve, thanks for these comments.  I am kind of
"analog sequencer stupid" and love seeing stuff like
this.  As I think about analog sequencers, I think
about more than one CV out at a time.  So, I was A and
B CV outs with a knob for each on each step a minimum.
 But, the idea of a gate lenght knob never even
crossed my mind.  I think this is a GREAT idea that
makes sense to me even though I know nothing about
these beasts.  Have you ever seen a sequencer with
this feature or is something you just dreamed up?
I agree, I woudl love to see much more in this thread
from people who know more about it than me (which
would be just about everyone). :)
Larry

--- revtor@... wrote:
> 2x8 or 1x16 sounds great paul.  for a modular I
> think most people aren't 
> looking for sequencers to write songs on anyway..
> but short arpeggio lie lines are nice.
> 
> here's my request   two knobs per step.  CV and gate
> length (time)..   with 
> the gate length set to 0 then there wouldn't be a
> gate signal for that step 
> and with it set to max (depending on clocking speed)
> the gate would tie from 
> one note to the next..  basic, useful feature.




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RE: [motm] SuperMoe feature

2001-01-28 by Mike B. Fisher

Perhaps this is an obvious one, but having both quantized and unquantized
outputs would be very handy.

Mike
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: James Hendry, Sr. [mailto:hendrysr@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 10:43 AM
To: motm@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [motm] SuperMoe feature


Steve, thanks for these comments.  I am kind of
"analog sequencer stupid" and love seeing stuff like
this.  As I think about analog sequencers, I think
about more than one CV out at a time.  So, I was A and
B CV outs with a knob for each on each step a minimum.
 But, the idea of a gate lenght knob never even
crossed my mind.  I think this is a GREAT idea that
makes sense to me even though I know nothing about
these beasts.  Have you ever seen a sequencer with
this feature or is something you just dreamed up?
I agree, I woudl love to see much more in this thread
from people who know more about it than me (which
would be just about everyone). :)
Larry

--- revtor@... wrote:
> 2x8 or 1x16 sounds great paul.  for a modular I
> think most people aren't
> looking for sequencers to write songs on anyway..
> but short arpeggio lie lines are nice.
>
> here's my request   two knobs per step.  CV and gate
> length (time)..   with
> the gate length set to 0 then there wouldn't be a
> gate signal for that step
> and with it set to max (depending on clocking speed)
> the gate would tie from
> one note to the next..  basic, useful feature.




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Re: [motm] SuperMoe feature

2001-01-28 by Jeffrey Pontius

On Sun, 28 Jan 2001, James Hendry, Sr. wrote:

> Steve, thanks for these comments.  I am kind of
> "analog sequencer stupid" and love seeing stuff like
> this.  As I think about analog sequencers, I think
> about more than one CV out at a time.  So, I was A and
> B CV outs with a knob for each on each step a minimum.
>  But, the idea of a gate lenght knob never even
> crossed my mind.  I think this is a GREAT idea that
> makes sense to me even though I know nothing about
> these beasts.  Have you ever seen a sequencer with
> this feature or is something you just dreamed up?

If you are referring to 2 cv knobs for each step and one gate 'length' 
knob for the *entire* sequencer, then the Korg SQ10 (of which I have one)
has these features over a 12 step range.  It also has a third channel with
only positive cv that is handy for cv 'duration' or usual cv control.
It is the only sequencer I own and it is a neat analog sequencer.

[However, I've found that integrating it with my motm modular is somewhat
awkward.  For example, I need to use the trig in on 800's but cannot set
attack and decay too short (if I remember correctly, below 2.5)(get very
apparent pops) and typically the gain on the vca must be below unity to
remove background signal before initiating the first step.  Am I missing
something?]
Jeff


> I agree, I woudl love to see much more in this thread
> from people who know more about it than me (which
> would be just about everyone). :)
> Larry
> 
> --- revtor@... wrote:
> > 2x8 or 1x16 sounds great paul.  for a modular I
> > think most people aren't 
> > looking for sequencers to write songs on anyway..
> > but short arpeggio lie lines are nice.
> > 
> > here's my request   two knobs per step.  CV and gate
> > length (time)..   with 
> > the gate length set to 0 then there wouldn't be a
> > gate signal for that step 
> > and with it set to max (depending on clocking speed)
> > the gate would tie from 
> > one note to the next..  basic, useful feature.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. 
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 

@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@
Jeffrey S. Pontius
Associate Professor
Department of Statistics   =^..^=
Kansas State University
Manhattan KS 66506-0802
pontius@...
@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@

Re: [motm] SuperMoe feature

2001-01-28 by jwbarlow@aol.com

Again, I didn't see the original post, but....

In a message dated 1/28/2001 9:43:49 AM, hendrysr@... writes:

>--- revtor@... wrote:

>> here's my request   two knobs per step.  CV and gate
>> length (time)..   with 
>> the gate length set to 0 then there wouldn't be a
>> gate signal for that step 
>> and with it set to max (depending on clocking speed)
>> the gate would tie from 
>> one note to the next..  basic, useful feature.

If something like this were implemented, I'd hope that the gate duration 
stages could be switched to provide just a simple second row of CV stages. I 
don't think the gate duration controls would be that useful since I prefer to 
be able to deal with gates (and envelopes) independently of position of CVs 
(like a cycle of seven envelopes against a cycle of eight CV stages). And if 
MOTM ever has a VC Gate Delay module (especially if it has an inverting 
output), one could use this to provide gate duration from a second CV row.

I like the quantized and non quantized outputs too!
JB

RE: [motm] SuperMoe feature

2001-01-28 by Tentochi

Gate length is a necessity rather than an option.  I have had a couple of
sequencers with this option and it is amazing what it can do to the sound in
a realtime performance situation.  Also great with arpeggiators (extremely
close cousin).

The only one I can remember for sure doing it was the Akai 1U arpeggiator.
Incredible.

The Mobius does NOT do this unfortunately.  The only control you have there
is 50% or 100% (the latter is achieved by gliding the note and turn the
global glide off).

Gate is fairly easy to implement too from what I understand.  Global gate is
fine for me.  Even if individual gates are provided, I would also like to
see a global gate that always affected all steps.

Cheers!
Shemp.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Hendry, Sr. [mailto:hendrysr@...]
> Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 12:43 PM
> To: motm@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [motm] SuperMoe feature
>
>
> Steve, thanks for these comments.  I am kind of
> "analog sequencer stupid" and love seeing stuff like
> this.  As I think about analog sequencers, I think
> about more than one CV out at a time.  So, I was A and
> B CV outs with a knob for each on each step a minimum.
>  But, the idea of a gate lenght knob never even
> crossed my mind.  I think this is a GREAT idea that
> makes sense to me even though I know nothing about
> these beasts.  Have you ever seen a sequencer with
> this feature or is something you just dreamed up?
> I agree, I woudl love to see much more in this thread
> from people who know more about it than me (which
> would be just about everyone). :)
> Larry
>
> --- revtor@... wrote:
> > 2x8 or 1x16 sounds great paul.  for a modular I
> > think most people aren't
> > looking for sequencers to write songs on anyway..
> > but short arpeggio lie lines are nice.
> >
> > here's my request   two knobs per step.  CV and gate
> > length (time)..   with
> > the gate length set to 0 then there wouldn't be a
> > gate signal for that step
> > and with it set to max (depending on clocking speed)
> > the gate would tie from
> > one note to the next..  basic, useful feature.

Re: sequencer design - NOT SuperMoe feature - dash of reality?

2001-01-28 by mate_stubb@yahoo.com

> >> here's my request   two knobs per step.  CV and gate
> >> length (time)..   with 
> >> the gate length set to 0 then there wouldn't be a
> >> gate signal for that step 
> >> and with it set to max (depending on clocking speed)
> >> the gate would tie from 
> >> one note to the next..  basic, useful feature.
> 

That's a nice idea, but I'm not sure it should be built in as a 
dedicated set of controls. That would require a dedicated built in 
clock, which would end up being rather basic. Modular's better! It's 
all a matter of priority, panel space, and cost. There are a gigantic 
set of tradeoffs to be made in sequencer design.

If you only have room for 16 pots, you first have to satisfy the 
minimum requirement of a useful sequencer - 8x2 plus 16x1 operation. 
It must be chainable so that two units could be ganged together to 
achieve 32 note sequences. This is harder to do than it sounds 
without using external switching, flip flops, and dedicated VC clock 
modules with start and end pulse signals. You must have the ability 
to change directions either by a DIR input or separate up and down 
clock inputs. You must have at a minimum a RESET, better is the 
ability to preset to any stage. You have to solve the problem of an 
easy way to ensure that your sequence can easily be started on stage 
one (one of the other seq systems - AS or Doepfer? - resets to the 
last stage and touts this as a feature, but I think it's a hokey 
solution). You need a way to control the length of the sequence. A 
HOLD input is nice. An INHIBIT input is nice (kills the output so you 
can wire-OR or mix multiple sequencer outputs together).

Now you get to the "nice to have" stuff. 

Your idea above could likely be achieved from the bare bones scenario 
above by using 8x2 mode, then taking the 2nd row of pots as a gate 
width CV, and simply controlling the PW of your VC clock. If you 
configure the VC clock such that the PW output is allowed to go to 
zero, but the CLOCK output always is guaranteed to output a pulse, 
this works great.

A set of switches to output a common row gate is a popular sequencer 
feature. If you don't need a variable width gate, you don't have to 
sacrifice a row of pots. Note however that this can be awkward to 
include on devices that are 8x2 AND 16x1 - how many switches do you 
put where, and how can you lay it out so that the UI is clear. 
Typically, I only see this feature on sequencers that are dedicated 
16 columns long.

One of my personal favorites is CV stage selection. Instead of a 
clock pulse advancing from stage to stage, the instantaneous voltage 
level determines which stage is selected. Rising sawtooth input = 
forward play, falling sawtooth = backward play, triangle input = 
forward then back play, random input = random stage selection. If all 
this sounds familiar, you may have heard me use the exact same terms 
to describe the waveform playback mechanism of the Wiard MiniWave.

The potential feature set goes on and on and on. Whatever Paul 
decides to put out, I'm afraid lots of people will be disappointed 
because we will happily design in the kitchen sink, without 
considering that the result will be 10U wide and cost $1000. He's 
targetting a somewhat basic sequencer, not MOAS or even DOMOAS.

I've thought about this a LOT, and you can see the reality somewhat 
reflected in the SuperMoe designs. I started off strong, threw in the 
kitchen sink, and ended up with an unmanageable monster. Then I 
designed a small standalone basic unit, and broke the kitchen sink up 
into a modular system. So not to be a wet blanket, but just remember 
when proposing features that you have 5U wide to work with. 16 pots 
and all the jacks and pots for the basic necessary features are there 
already before we add features and cost on top...

(BTW - I'm flattered that this thread was called "SuperMoe feature", 
but that's inaccurate - SuperMoe was designed by me for me, and I 
didn't have to please anybody else!)

Moe

Dave's Hot Rod MOTM Shop
http://www.users.qwest.net/~daveb2

RE: [motm] SuperMoe feature

2001-01-29 by Cap'n F.M. Bleep

> Gate length is a necessity rather than an option.  I have had a couple of

> The Mobius does NOT do this unfortunately.  The only control you have there
> is 50% or 100% (the latter is achieved by gliding the note and turn the
> global glide off).

actually, the mobius has excellent gate time control. hold down the button
on the start step then hit the step you want it to sustain to. but if you
mean the gate time of each individual step, yeah, that's something
different. i usually nerfle about with the S and R on my 800s to get
things the way i want 'em...

...but if we just had a VC ADSR... :)

bleep.
out.

Re: SuperMoe feature

2001-01-29 by mate_stubb@yahoo.com

You DO have a VC ASR - it's called the MOTM-820 ;)

Moe

--- In motm@y..., "Cap'n F.M. Bleep" <bleep@w...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> ...but if we just had a VC ADSR... :)
> 
> bleep.
> out.

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