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Re: [oberheim] Digest Number 627

2012-02-23 by Dan Leuca

Here we go...should get rid of my analog gear, since people like you

will render all gear obsolete mate... Fucking hell! Luckily for myself

I don't believe in this software crap at all...Revox B77, 100M, SH-5,

SH-101, MS-20, M1000, SEM, MOTM, Digisound 80, Oakley,

Rob Hordjik, etc, etc...you can't make them all into software...

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From: "oberheim@yahoogroups.com"
To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 23 February 2012, 10:31
Subject: [oberheim] Digest Number 627

OBERHEIM SYNTH

Messages In This Digest (1 Message)

1. Matrix 1000 software project From: digitalcem

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1. Matrix 1000 software project Posted by: "digitalcem" 1000patches@gmail.com digitalcem Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:32 am (PST)

Some time ago I started investigating how to replace my Matrix 1000 with a software implementation and I've just created a blog to document my experiments.

My goal is to study the synth and the CEM 3396 and create a soft synth that is an accurate reproduction, especially recreating the subtle analog nuances like filter sound coloring. If completed, the software should then be able to read Matrix 1000 SysEx files and allow playing the corresponding sounds.

Things have been proceeding slowly, but I plan to post about my research to date and any future progress on my blog at http://ob1000. blogspot. com.

Thanks!

Digital CEM

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Re: [oberheim] Digest Number 627

2012-02-23 by wolzow

Hmm... Ironically, you *can* 'make MS-20 into software', as Korg showed, and they did it pretty decently, still considered one of the rare excellent vintage emulations in VSTi. They even added hardware controller to compensate the real knobs. Nevertheless, judged by eBay prices the 'soft' MS-20 does not even play in the same ballpark as the 'real' one. Go figure...

Second, and again, ironically, most of the M-1000 *IS* in software already. All of the items in 'digital' category and part of the 'analog' ones as well are actually waveforms, curves and algorithms in firmware that were once created by Marcus Ryle for Xpander, then converted to Matrix-6 and then converted to M-1000 (adding a lot of bugs, a sloppy MIDI implementation and nothing new in sound section). So it's about emulating the 3396 chip. The rest (envelopes, ramps, LFOs and modulations etc.) is in software already and it's just about porting it to another format. Doable?

Regards,

Margus

http://www.wolzow.com/analog/m1k.htm

On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Dan Leuca <dubld68@...> wrote:

Here we go...should get rid of my analog gear, since people like you
will render all gear obsolete mate... Fucking hell! Luckily for myself

I don't believe in this software crap at all...Revox B77, 100M, SH-5,
SH-101, MS-20, M1000, SEM, MOTM, Digisound 80, Oakley,
Rob Hordjik, etc, etc...you can't make them all into software...

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: "oberheim@yahoogroups.com" <oberheim@yahoogroups.com>
To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 23 February 2012, 10:31
Subject: [oberheim] Digest Number 627

OBERHEIM SYNTH

Messages In This Digest (1 Message)
1. Matrix 1000 software project From: digitalcem

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1. Matrix 1000 software project Posted by: "digitalcem" 1000patches@... digitalcem Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:32 am (PST)

Some time ago I started investigating how to replace my Matrix 1000 with a software implementation and I've just created a blog to document my experiments.

My goal is to study the synth and the CEM 3396 and create a soft synth that is an accurate reproduction, especially recreating the subtle analog nuances like filter sound coloring. If completed, the software should then be able to read Matrix 1000 SysEx files and allow playing the corresponding sounds.

Things have been proceeding slowly, but I plan to post about my research to date and any future progress on my blog at http://ob1000. blogspot. com.

Thanks!

Digital CEM

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Re: [oberheim] Digest Number 627

2012-02-23 by atmospherics4@gmail.com

I have a pair of M6Rs in my keytar rack...have tried lots of soft synths. You will have to pry the Oberheims from my cold dead hands!!!!

Sent via my CrackBerry

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From: Dan Leuca <dubld68@yahoo.co.uk>

Sender: oberheim@yahoogroups.com

Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 15:06:02 +0000 (GMT)

To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com<oberheim@yahoogroups.com>

ReplyTo: oberheim@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [oberheim] Digest Number 627

Here we go...should get rid of my analog gear, since people like you

will render all gear obsolete mate... Fucking hell! Luckily for myself

I don't believe in this software crap at all...Revox B77, 100M, SH-5,

SH-101, MS-20, M1000, SEM, MOTM, Digisound 80, Oakley,

Rob Hordjik, etc, etc...you can't make them all into software...

From: "oberheim@yahoogroups.com" <oberheim@yahoogroups.com>
To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 23 February 2012, 10:31
Subject: [oberheim] Digest Number 627

OBERHEIM SYNTH

Messages In This Digest (1 Message)

1. Matrix 1000 software project From: digitalcem

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Message

1. Matrix 1000 software project Posted by: "digitalcem" 1000patches@gmail.com digitalcem Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:32 am (PST)

Some time ago I started investigating how to replace my Matrix 1000 with a software implementation and I've just created a blog to document my experiments.

My goal is to study the synth and the CEM 3396 and create a soft synth that is an accurate reproduction, especially recreating the subtle analog nuances like filter sound coloring. If completed, the software should then be able to read Matrix 1000 SysEx files and allow playing the corresponding sounds.

Things have been proceeding slowly, but I plan to post about my research to date and any future progress on my blog at http://ob1000. blogspot. com.

Thanks!

Digital CEM

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Re: [oberheim] Digest Number 627

2012-02-24 by Steve.S

all programmable synths are software controlled..but the sound source is still analog, 3396 is analog..all the software does is control cv,s to the chip, it is still analog, its does not sound the same...similar but not cigar!!
OBX and the software version proves that...similar but if you play the reall deal...the dynamics a far superior in true analog...oscillating voltages not zeros and ones

Steve

--- On Fri, 24/2/12, wolzow <margus.kliimask@gmail.com> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: wolzow <margus.kliimask@...>
Subject: Re: [oberheim] Digest Number 627
To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com
Received: Friday, 24 February, 2012, 3:04 AM
















 



  


    
      
      
      Hmm... Ironically, you *can* 'make MS-20 into software', as Korg showed, and they did it pretty decently, still considered one of the rare excellent vintage emulations in VSTi. They even added hardware controller to compensate the real knobs. Nevertheless, judged by eBay prices the 'soft' MS-20 does not even play in the same ballpark as the 'real' one. Go figure... 



Second, and again, ironically, most of the M-1000 *IS* in software already. All of the items in 'digital' category and part of the 'analog' ones as well are actually waveforms, curves and algorithms in firmware that were once created by Marcus Ryle for Xpander, then converted to Matrix-6 and then converted to M-1000 (adding a lot of bugs, a sloppy MIDI implementation and nothing new in sound section). So it's about emulating the 3396 chip. The rest (envelopes, ramps, LFOs and modulations etc.) is in software already and it's just about porting it to another format. Doable?


Regards,Margus
http://www.wolzow.com/analog/m1k.htm

On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Dan Leuca <dubld68@...> wrote:

















 



  


    
      
      
      Here we go...should get rid of my analog gear, since people like youwill render all gear obsolete mate... Fucking hell! Luckily for myself

I don't believe in this software crap at all...Revox B77, 100M, SH-5, 
SH-101, MS-20, M1000, SEM, MOTM, Digisound 80, Oakley,Rob Hordjik, etc, etc...you can't make them all into software...


 
      

  From: "oberheim@yahoogroups.com" <oberheim@yahoogroups.com>


 To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Thursday, 23 February 2012, 10:31


 Subject: [oberheim] Digest Number 627
   




















  














 
  
    
      OBERHEIM SYNTH    
   
   
    Messages In This Digest      (1 
              Message)
          
    
      
               
                      1.  

   Matrix 1000 software project
  From: 
      digitalcem  
                  
           
    
          View All Topics | Create New Topic
         
  
           Message       

  
           
        1. 
   
    
       
        Matrix 1000 software project      
    
    Posted by:      "digitalcem"      
      1000patches@...      
               
        
          digitalcem 
        
          
    
      Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:32 am        (PST)    

    
                  


      Some time ago I started investigating how to replace my Matrix 1000 with a software implementation and I've just created a blog to document my experiments.



My goal is to study the synth and the CEM 3396 and create a soft synth that is an accurate reproduction, especially recreating the subtle analog nuances like filter sound coloring. If completed, the software should then be able to read Matrix 1000 SysEx files and allow playing the corresponding sounds.





Things have been proceeding slowly, but I plan to post about my research to date and any future progress on my blog at http://ob1000. blogspot. com.





Thanks!



Digital CEM



                 
    
    
      
        
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Re: [oberheim] Digest Number 627

2012-02-24 by Peter Mörck

Semi-true.
There's a difference between software that for example generates ADSR-envelopes and LFO-waveforms via D/A converters, and software that triggers and controls analog ADSR-circuits and LFO-generators.
In any case, when it comes to the Matrix-1000, you should listen to Margus. He knows his shit :)

Show quoted textHide quoted text

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve.S
To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: [oberheim] Digest Number 627

all programmable synths are software controlled..but the sound source is still analog, 3396 is analog..all the software does is control cv,s to the chip, it is still analog, its does not sound the same...similar but not cigar!!
OBX and the software version proves that...similar but if you play the reall deal...the dynamics a far superior in true analog...oscillating voltages not zeros and ones

Steve

--- On Fri, 24/2/12, wolzow <margus.kliimask@...> wrote:

From: wolzow <margus.kliimask@...>
Subject: Re: [oberheim] Digest Number 627
To: oberheim@...m
Received: Friday, 24 February, 2012, 3:04 AM

Hmm... Ironically, you *can* 'make MS-20 into software', as Korg showed, and they did it pretty decently, still considered one of the rare excellent vintage emulations in VSTi. They even added hardware controller to compensate the real knobs. Nevertheless, judged by eBay prices the 'soft' MS-20 does not even play in the same ballpark as the 'real' one. Go figure...

Second, and again, ironically, most of the M-1000 *IS* in software already. All of the items in 'digital' category and part of the 'analog' ones as well are actually waveforms, curves and algorithms in firmware that were once created by Marcus Ryle for Xpander, then converted to Matrix-6 and then converted to M-1000 (adding a lot of bugs, a sloppy MIDI implementation and nothing new in sound section). So it's about emulating the 3396 chip. The rest (envelopes, ramps, LFOs and modulations etc.) is in software already and it's just about porting it to another format. Doable?

Regards,
Margus

http://www.wolzow.com/analog/m1k.htm

On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Dan Leuca <dubld68@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Here we go...should get rid of my analog gear, since people like you
will render all gear obsolete mate... Fucking hell! Luckily for myself
I don't believe in this software crap at all...Revox B77, 100M, SH-5,

SH-101, MS-20, M1000, SEM, MOTM, Digisound 80, Oakley,
Rob Hordjik, etc, etc...you can't make them all into software...

--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "oberheim@yahoogroups.com" <oberheim@yahoogroups.com>
To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 23 February 2012, 10:31
Subject: [oberheim] Digest Number 627

OBERHEIM SYNTH
Messages In This Digest (1 Message)
1.
Matrix 1000 software project From: digitalcem
View All Topics | Create New Topic
Message
1.
Matrix 1000 software project
Posted by: "digitalcem" 1000patches@... digitalcem
Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:32 am (PST)

Some time ago I started investigating how to replace my Matrix 1000 with a software implementation and I've just created a blog to document my experiments.

My goal is to study the synth and the CEM 3396 and create a soft synth that is an accurate reproduction, especially recreating the subtle analog nuances like filter sound coloring. If completed, the software should then be able to read Matrix 1000 SysEx files and allow playing the corresponding sounds.

Things have been proceeding slowly, but I plan to post about my research to date and any future progress on my blog at http://ob1000. blogspot. com.

Thanks!

Digital CEM

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Re: Digest Number 627

2012-02-24 by Andrea Toni

Hello, 

Sure u can make anything u want in software 
and some of the new VST sounds better and better  
but have u ever actually try a real ms20 ? 
or to sweep/open/close the pots in any real mono analogue ? 
it is just another galaxy ! 

The poly analogue all have a degree of digital control 
in them : sometimes the LFOs are digital the ENVS or the DCO are digital 
but often just the analogue filter alone gives that special sound
that u just cant get with VSTs 

Not to mention how bad Aliasing and Pitch shifting tones across the Kbd 
are in the digital domain ! 
 
Andrea 

>>>

Hmm... Ironically, you *can* 'make MS-20 into software', as Korg showed,
and they did it pretty decently, still considered one of the rare excellent
vintage emulations in VSTi. They even added hardware controller to
compensate the real knobs. Nevertheless, judged by eBay prices the 'soft'
MS-20 does not even play in the same ballpark as the 'real' one. Go
figure...

Second, and again, ironically, most of the M-1000 *IS* in software already.
All of the items in 'digital' category and part of the 'analog' ones as
well are actually waveforms, curves and algorithms in firmware that were
once created by Marcus Ryle for Xpander, then converted to Matrix-6 and
then converted to M-1000 (adding a lot of bugs, a sloppy MIDI
implementation and nothing new in sound section). So it's about emulating
the 3396 chip. The rest (envelopes, ramps, LFOs and modulations etc.) is in
software already and it's just about porting it to another format. Doable?

Regards,
Margus

Re: [oberheim] Re: Digest Number 627

2012-02-24 by wolzow

hehe... now this is getting *really* ironical... Having spent a week to get the world's one and only Matrix-1400 (*) up and going I get accused in digitalism and anti-analogism... like in "nobody expects the spanish inquisition" :)

in fact, all i was saying is that even the best vsti emulations (eg. MS-20) really do not equal the originals, although they come pretty close in some cases. and yes, i own one and have even played it :) side by side with the vsti. my point was simply that matrix-1000 is really quite a bit more in software than an average poly, as stated in "poly analogue all have a degree of digital control in them". as peter says, there's a difference, and peter knows his 'shit' inside out. it's a difference between just scanning a keyboard and storing patches, and building all of the control path in software. it does not matter whether the softare runs under windows/linux or in a microcontroller, although the latter one sure looks a lot more 'analog' :)

so the question is: can one really faithfully emulate the 3396 chip? and is it worth it?

regards,

margus

(*) before anyone asks, matrix-1400 is a matrix-1000 with 1400 patches instead of 1000.

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 1:26 PM, Andrea Toni <atoni@...> wrote:

Hello,

Sure u can make anything u want in software
and some of the new VST sounds better and better
but have u ever actually try a real ms20 ?
or to sweep/open/close the pots in any real mono analogue ?
it is just another galaxy !

The poly analogue all have a degree of digital control
in them : sometimes the LFOs are digital the ENVS or the DCO are digital
but often just the analogue filter alone gives that special sound
that u just cant get with VSTs

Not to mention how bad Aliasing and Pitch shifting tones across the Kbd
are in the digital domain !

Andrea

>>>

Hmm... Ironically, you *can* 'make MS-20 into software', as Korg showed,
and they did it pretty decently, still considered one of the rare excellent
vintage emulations in VSTi. They even added hardware controller to
compensate the real knobs. Nevertheless, judged by eBay prices the 'soft9;
MS-20 does not even play in the same ballpark as the 'real' one. Go
figure...

Second, and again, ironically, most of the M-1000 *IS* in software already.
All of the items in 'digital' category and part of the 'analog' ones as
well are actually waveforms, curves and algorithms in firmware that were
once created by Marcus Ryle for Xpander, then converted to Matrix-6 and
then converted to M-1000 (adding a lot of bugs, a sloppy MIDI
implementation and nothing new in sound section). So it's about emulating
the 3396 chip. The rest (envelopes, ramps, LFOs and modulations etc.) is in
software already and it's just about porting it to another format. Doable?

Regards,
Margus

Re: [oberheim] Re: Digest Number 627

2012-02-25 by M 1000

so the question is: can one really faithfully emulate the 3396 chip? and is it worth it?

I think for me the (learning) path may be worth even more than the goal.

I dont' see why one couldn't simulate analog gear perfectly in software... if given _infinite_ time to study the system and experiment :) But mathematical perfection is not required, it's sufficient being close enough to fool the 7 billion pair of ears on earth :-D So another question for me is how close I can get in a reasonable amount of itime. No idea, yet, but lots of curiosity about how my synths work.

Digital CEM

Re: [oberheim] Re: Digest Number 627

2012-02-25 by Peter Mörck

Hehe.. I don't really know it inside out :) But Margus actually does.

Anyway, just look inside it. There's nothing in the M1000 almost except the CEM3396:es and a CPU+DAC+ROM+RAM :)

Anyway, I think the learning process is a good goal in itself!

I hope you just have better self discipline and perseverance than I do with my projects ;)

Good luck!

BR,

Peter

Show quoted textHide quoted text

----- Original Message -----

From: M 1000

To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 3:23 AM

Subject: Re: [oberheim] Re: Digest Number 627

so the question is: can one really faithfully emulate the 3396 chip? and is it worth it?

I think for me the (learning) path may be worth even more than the goal.

I dont' see why one couldn't simulate analog gear perfectly in software... if given _infinite_ time to study the system and experiment :) But mathematical perfection is not required, it's sufficient being close enough to fool the 7 billion pair of ears on earth :-D So another question for me is how close I can get in a reasonable amount of itime. No idea, yet, but lots of curiosity about how my synths work.

Digital CEM