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Lost ram patches after calibration

Lost ram patches after calibration

2014-11-17 by artijo@...

Hi everyone,


I'm new to this group and I own a Matrix 1000 since 1999.

To make it quick, I had that lost voice-chip problem for years without knowing it and fixed last month by buying a new CEM chip.

BUT, after upgrading from 1.11 to 1.13 ( and a few eprom settle problems) yesterday, I lost all my ram patches after doing a simple calibration test !


How can that be possible ?

Are they really lost or is it just a problem of accessing to the ram ?

I tried two hard resets but nothing has improved.


I don't wan't to dump in factory patches without trying something else : I'm not sure that ram patches were genuine or not (I never edited patches because I found them good).


thanks for your help.


Joël

Re: [oberheim] Lost ram patches after calibration

2014-11-17 by Daniel Forró

That's strange, it's written that making test on this instrument shall keep the RAM contents. Maybe the new OS can't access RAM from some reason?

What about trying to return the old OS chip and check if it can access the RAM? If yes, dump your data, change for the new OS and send data back...

Daniel Forro


On 18 Nov, 2014, at 2:48 AM, artijo@... [oberheim] wrote:

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this group and I own a Matrix 1000 since 1999.

To make it quick, I had that lost voice-chip problem for years without knowing it and fixed last month by buying a new CEM chip.

BUT, after upgrading from 1.11 to 1.13 ( and a few eprom settle problems) yesterday, I lost all my ram patches after doing a simple calibration test !

How can that be possible ?

Are they really lost or is it just a problem of accessing to the ram ?

I tried two hard resets but nothing has improved.

I don't wan't to dump in factory patches without trying something else : I'm not sure that ram patches were genuine or not (I never edited patches because I found them good).

thanks for your help.

Joël


Re: [oberheim] Lost ram patches after calibration

2014-11-18 by artijo@...

Yes, I know, that's really strange...
Thanks for your advice, it's smart.
I tried it but it didn't change anything : still no ram sounds.

Well, I had to dump factory sounds but they weren't the ones I had in first place.
Thanks for your help.

Joël

Re: Lost ram patches after calibration

2014-11-18 by jan@...

Hi Joël, I think that the loss of memory has nothing to do with the new EPROM - it sounds like the buffer battery has given in. The Matrix-1000 was built long before EEPROMs became affordable, so the memory is kept by a buffer battery in the lower left corner of the PCB, a standard CR2032 battery that has been soldered in.

To everyone's surprise, these batteries still work - 20-odd years after the last M1000 has left the factory. I've just replaced the battery in my Matrix; after 25 years of service, it still produced 2.95 volts. Yet, at some point in time, the battery can no longer keep the RAM alive.

My guess is that the battery in your M1000 is very close to dying, and somehow in the process of exchanging all the chips, the RAM hold failed. Try writing a ROM preset to one of the RAM banks and see if it's kept while switched off - and solder in a new battery sometime soon.

RE: [oberheim] Re: Lost ram patches after calibration

2014-11-19 by Nicole Massey

How hard is it to solder in a battery holder in its place and then just switch out batteries every quarter of a century or so?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oberheim@yahoogroups.com [mailto:oberheim@yahoogroups.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 4:47 PM
> To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [oberheim] Re: Lost ram patches after calibration
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Joël, I think that the loss of memory has nothing to do with the new
> EPROM - it sounds like the buffer battery has given in. The Matrix-1000
> was built long before EEPROMs became affordable, so the memory is kept
> by a buffer battery in the lower left corner of the PCB, a standard
> CR2032 battery that has been soldered in.
> 
> To everyone's surprise, these batteries still work - 20-odd years after
> the last M1000 has left the factory. I've just replaced the battery in
> my Matrix; after 25 years of service, it still produced 2.95 volts.
> Yet, at some point in time, the battery can no longer keep the RAM
> alive.
> 
> My guess is that the battery in your M1000 is very close to dying, and
> somehow in the process of exchanging all the chips, the RAM hold
> failed. Try writing a ROM preset to one of the RAM banks and see if
> it's kept while switched off - and solder in a new battery sometime
> soon.
> 
>

Re: [oberheim] Re: Lost ram patches after calibration

2014-11-19 by Daniel Forró

It's easy, but... After so many 25 years cycles will instrument still  
work? :-)

It's really not necessary to change for battery holder.

Daniel Forro

On 19 Nov, 2014, at 9:10 AM, 'Nicole Massey' nyyki@...  
[oberheim] wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> How hard is it to solder in a battery holder in its place and then  
> just switch out batteries every quarter of a century or so?
>

Re: [oberheim] Re: Lost ram patches after calibration

2014-11-19 by soundprogramer@...

Why not? Replacements will be harder to find but no imposible and todays Lithium CR-2032 are not so solid as before so..
Mine have change for a battery holder. Next battery change will be in a years and dont want to disolder and solder a battery again. Work you save, time you win..

Re: [oberheim] Re: Lost ram patches after calibration

2014-11-19 by Daniel Forró

And here is a message from battery discussion in DX yahoo group supporting my opinion...

-------------------------------------------
My $0.02USD ...

I never use battery clips. A brand new lithium battery, properly braised and soldered, should last at *least* 5-8 years as a RAM backup device, often much more. I can get my local Batteries Plus to braise strips on any battery for $5 more than the cost of the cell, which seems reasonable to me. Performing a replacement every say, 7 years seems like a simple, straightforward maintenance task. Even if the original battery is no longer available, it should be possible to braise on strips such that the battery fits, and a piece of VHB tape will hold the battery in place without affecting the electronics.

During that same 5+ years, even a well-made battery clip with good contact pressure is subject to developing surface corrosion, causing the connection to fail, perhaps even multiple times. Battery clips were designed for uses where the battery life is weeks or months, not multiple years.

YMMV.


Regards,

-BW

Bruce Wahler
Ashby Solutions.com™
---------------------------------------------

Daniel Forro

RE: [oberheim] Re: Lost ram patches after calibration

2014-11-19 by Nicole Massey

As someone with Yamaha and Roland gear in my rig I tend to replace batteries with battery holders so I can make easy changes. Though I'm not relishing doing that for all my 1000 series Kurzweil gear.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oberheim@yahoogroups.com [mailto:oberheim@yahoogroups.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 6:25 PM
> To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [oberheim] Re: Lost ram patches after calibration
> 
> 
> 
> Why not?   Replacements will be harder to find but no imposible and
> todays Lithium CR-2032 are not so solid as before so..
> Mine have change for a battery holder. Next battery change will be in a
> years and dont want to disolder and solder a battery again. Work you
> save, time you win..
> 
>

RE: [oberheim] Re: Lost ram patches after calibration

2014-11-19 by Nicole Massey

Good point, but I don't think anyone wants a blind person trying to do a
soldered battery replacement.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oberheim@yahoogroups.com [mailto:oberheim@yahoogroups.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 6:42 PM
> To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [oberheim] Re: Lost ram patches after calibration
> 
> 
> 
> And here is a message from battery discussion in DX yahoo group
> supporting my opinion...
> 
> -------------------------------------------
> My $0.02USD ...
> 
> I never use battery clips.  A brand new lithium battery, properly
> braised and soldered, should last at *least* 5-8 years as a RAM backup
> device, often much more.  I can get my local Batteries Plus to braise
> strips on any battery for $5 more than the cost of the cell, which
> seems reasonable to me.  Performing a replacement every say, 7 years
> seems like a simple, straightforward maintenance task.  Even if the
> original battery is no longer available, it should be possible to
> braise on strips such that the battery fits, and a piece of VHB tape
> will hold the battery in place without affecting the electronics.
> 
> During that same 5+ years, even a well-made battery clip with good
> contact pressure is subject to developing surface corrosion, causing
> the connection to fail, perhaps even multiple times.  Battery clips
> were designed for uses where the battery life is weeks or months, not
> multiple years.
> 
> YMMV.
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -BW
> 
> Bruce Wahler
> Ashby Solutions.comT
> ---------------------------------------------
> 
> Daniel Forro
> 
>

Re: Lost ram patches after calibration

2014-11-19 by jan@...

When you have to desolder the battery anyway - or have someone do that for you - why not save yourself some trouble and solder in a clip. Batteries for soldering are (a) harder to get, (b) easy to damage when soldering. So why not go the extra trouble once and have an easily servicable device in the future.

I have to admit that I drilled an additional hole into the PCB to fit the battery clip holder though.

Re: Lost ram patches after calibration

2014-11-19 by artijo@...

Hi,

Of course ! The battery !
I bought it in 1999 (or even 1997, I'm not sure) and it had never been changed before (said the seller), which makes more than 15 years of good and loyal service ! Pretty good but it's time for retirement for the battery.
Your explanation seems logical, even more when I backgraded to 1.11 and ram patches were still unavailable.

Thanks again.

Joël

Re: Lost ram patches after calibration

2014-11-19 by artijo@...

Interesting point you debate, here !

I think I'll go for soldering the battery because doing this operation once a double decade sounds to me like a good deal.
But I understand the point of putting a battery holder. If those two batteries had the same reliability, I would have put such an item in it but it seems that batteries for soldering last longer, so...

And i didn't think this group was so active, it's really a good surprise !

Thank you, all of you !

Re: Lost ram patches after calibration

2014-11-19 by artijo@...

Just to go further, the person who gave me the eeprom told me that it could be that my gear may need a patch rom before upgrade.
I'll try that patch soon but first, I'd like to test the unit as it is right now and see if that problem occurs again.

Re: Lost ram patches after calibration

2014-11-21 by rajahpatel@...

Is there a battery in the proteus 2000? I thought it was flash based.
I reckon the lcd has gone. The unit does not start properly with the LCD plugged out

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