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Thread
2008-04-15 by thirteentech
Just wanted to introduce myself... I am a synthesizer service tech from Sydney, Australia. I have been fixing synths since 1982, as well as a lot of touring as a keyboard tech. Currently I have around 22 vintage machines that I play and use for recording, and have been a warranty tech in Australia over the years for PPG, Kurzweil E-mu and Sequential. Hope I can help out a little on the forum, and learn some new things too :-) Steve Jones.
2008-04-15 by Merlin Zener
G'day Steve, I'm in Darwin. Would you have, or happen to know where to get, a circuit diagram for an Ensoniq MR rack? Even if it was just the analog bit around the output sockets, headphone socket etc. I've got one that only puts sound out the headphone skt, not the main or aux outs. Cheers, -- Merlin. On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 9:54 PM, thirteentech <thirteentech@...> wrote: > Just wanted to introduce myself... I am a synthesizer service tech from Sydney, Australia. I > have been fixing synths since 1982, as well as a lot of touring as a keyboard tech. Currently I > have around 22 vintage machines that I play and use for recording, and have been a warranty > tech in Australia over the years for PPG, Kurzweil E-mu and Sequential. Hope I can help out a > little on the forum, and learn some new things too :-) > > Steve Jones. > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > -- Merlin Zener piano, synthesizer.
2008-04-15 by Scott
--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "thirteentech" <thirteentech@...> wrote: > > Just wanted to introduce myself... I am a synthesizer service tech from Sydney, Australia. I > have been fixing synths since 1982, as well as a lot of touring as a keyboard tech. Currently I > have around 22 vintage machines that I play and use for recording, and have been a warranty > tech in Australia over the years for PPG, Kurzweil E-mu and Sequential. Hope I can help out a > little on the forum, and learn some new things too :-) > > Steve Jones. > Welcome Steve!..I'm sure your background is going to make some of us go " Bloody Bonzaa!" in a good way Scott in Vermont
2008-04-15 by Stephen Jones
I don't have a service manual for that machine, I so
rarely see Ensoniq gear come into my workshop, I think
I have an ESQ 1 manual and that's about it.
--- Merlin Zener <merlin.zener@...> wrote:
> G'day Steve,
>
> I'm in Darwin.
> Would you have, or happen to know where to get, a
> circuit diagram for
> an Ensoniq MR rack?
> Even if it was just the analog bit around the output
> sockets,
> headphone socket etc. I've got one
> that only puts sound out the headphone skt, not the
> main or aux outs.
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Merlin.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 9:54 PM, thirteentech
> <thirteentech@...> wrote:
> > Just wanted to introduce myself... I am a
> synthesizer service tech from Sydney, Australia. I
> > have been fixing synths since 1982, as well as a
> lot of touring as a keyboard tech. Currently I
> > have around 22 vintage machines that I play and
> use for recording, and have been a warranty
> > tech in Australia over the years for PPG,
> Kurzweil E-mu and Sequential. Hope I can help out a
> > little on the forum, and learn some new things
> too :-)
> >
> > Steve Jones.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Merlin Zener
> piano, synthesizer.
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ2008-04-15 by narfman96
Look for J111 FET's (or similar) near the output jacks. They are used for output muting and are a common failure item. I would like to see a schematic for the MR Rack too since I have one. I'm looking for the V1.53 eprom images too. --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Merlin Zener" <merlin.zener@...> wrote: > > G'day Steve, > > I'm in Darwin. > Would you have, or happen to know where to get, a circuit diagram for > an Ensoniq MR rack? > Even if it was just the analog bit around the output sockets, > headphone socket etc. I've got one > that only puts sound out the headphone skt, not the main or aux outs. > > Cheers, > -- > Merlin. > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 9:54 PM, thirteentech <thirteentech@...> wrote: > > Just wanted to introduce myself... I am a synthesizer service tech from Sydney, Australia. I > > have been fixing synths since 1982, as well as a lot of touring as a keyboard tech. Currently I > > have around 22 vintage machines that I play and use for recording, and have been a warranty > > tech in Australia over the years for PPG, Kurzweil E-mu and Sequential. Hope I can help out a
> > little on the forum, and learn some new things too :-) > > > > Steve Jones. > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Merlin Zener > piano, synthesizer. >
2008-04-15 by Philip
You mean 2SJ111 I think..they are common, just google
it.
--- narfman96 <narfman96@...> wrote:
> Look for J111 FET's (or similar) near the output
> jacks. They are used
> for output muting and are a common failure item.
>
> I would like to see a schematic for the MR Rack too
> since I have one.
> I'm looking for the V1.53 eprom images too.
>
> --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Merlin
> Zener"
> <merlin.zener@...> wrote:
> >
> > G'day Steve,
> >
> > I'm in Darwin.
> > Would you have, or happen to know where to get, a
> circuit diagram
> for
> > an Ensoniq MR rack?
> > Even if it was just the analog bit around the
> output sockets,
> > headphone socket etc. I've got one
> > that only puts sound out the headphone skt, not
> the main or aux
> outs.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > --
> > Merlin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 9:54 PM, thirteentech
> <thirteentech@...>
> wrote:
> > > Just wanted to introduce myself... I am a
> synthesizer service
> tech from Sydney, Australia. I
> > > have been fixing synths since 1982, as well as
> a lot of touring
> as a keyboard tech. Currently I
> > > have around 22 vintage machines that I play and
> use for
> recording, and have been a warranty
> > > tech in Australia over the years for PPG,
> Kurzweil E-mu and
> Sequential. Hope I can help out a
> > > little on the forum, and learn some new things
> too :-)
> > >
> > > Steve Jones.
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Merlin Zener
> > piano, synthesizer.
> >
>
>
>
___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! For Good helps you make a difference
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/2008-04-15 by Stephen Jones
Sounds like the same issue that Kurzweil K2000's have
where the J109 FET's (to stop turn-on thump) fail if a
lead with stray earth voltages is plugged in.
--- narfman96 <narfman96@...> wrote:
> Look for J111 FET's (or similar) near the output
> jacks. They are used
> for output muting and are a common failure item.
>
> I would like to see a schematic for the MR Rack too
> since I have one.
> I'm looking for the V1.53 eprom images too.
>
> --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Merlin
> Zener"
> <merlin.zener@...> wrote:
> >
> > G'day Steve,
> >
> > I'm in Darwin.
> > Would you have, or happen to know where to get, a
> circuit diagram
> for
> > an Ensoniq MR rack?
> > Even if it was just the analog bit around the
> output sockets,
> > headphone socket etc. I've got one
> > that only puts sound out the headphone skt, not
> the main or aux
> outs.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > --
> > Merlin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 9:54 PM, thirteentech
> <thirteentech@...>
> wrote:
> > > Just wanted to introduce myself... I am a
> synthesizer service
> tech from Sydney, Australia. I
> > > have been fixing synths since 1982, as well as
> a lot of touring
> as a keyboard tech. Currently I
> > > have around 22 vintage machines that I play and
> use for
> recording, and have been a warranty
> > > tech in Australia over the years for PPG,
> Kurzweil E-mu and
> Sequential. Hope I can help out a
> > > little on the forum, and learn some new things
> too :-)
> > >
> > > Steve Jones.
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Merlin Zener
> > piano, synthesizer.
> >
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ2008-04-15 by Frank Simon
----- Original Message -----From: thirteentechSent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:54 AMSubject: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new member.Just wanted to introduce myself... I am a synthesizer service tech from Sydney, Australia. I
have been fixing synths since 1982, as well as a lot of touring as a keyboard tech. Currently I
have around 22 vintage machines that I play and use for recording, and have been a warranty
tech in Australia over the years for PPG, Kurzweil E-mu and Sequential. Hope I can help out a
little on the forum, and learn some new things too :-)
Steve Jones.
2008-04-15 by eggwheatis
Most, if not all Roland schematics are available in PDF from...surprise, surprise....Roland! Phone or email them. He he.. you'll get a lot more than your money back right now..as is..so I wouldn't be too worried. >>Roland JX10 is total dead. I think power supply was good. Lower priority. This one I don't have a schematic. Do you have one? --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@...> wrote: > > Hi Steve, > I hope everyone doesn't attack you at once. I had a crazy experience where I bought a Prophet 10, Korg Trident Mk II, and Roland JX 10 all for $30 each non working. I am an RF engineer and novice musician/Audio repairman. I know linear more than digital but I am going to throw out some questions since you offered. > 1)My Trident I fixed due to NiCad battery meltdown destroying traces but I repaired the PC board(with wire) and all works great Strings, Brass, FLANGER!!!, but the Synth section makes occasional odd noises sounds like processing. Any trouble shooting advice would be appreciated. > 2) The P10 had no sound, lit up, I found a 5V regulator pulled down. Found the bad IC(burned my finger). Then like a dumb a## I was checking -5V reg T0-220 on a voice board,slipped shorted output to input and took out 4 CEM3310. OUCH!! Still don't know why due to internal Zener in CEM3310. I want to continue toubleshooting but don't want to buy pricey chips until my confidence is up. Can I put the board in without 4 of the 10 CEM3310 and continue. I'm sure no sound but -5v reg will be up. Any advice appreciated. > 3) Roland JX10 is total dead. I think power supply was good. Lower priority. This one I don't have a schematic. Do you have one? > 4) Finally my Hammond H-112 had low volume and I found unplugging the Reverb tank it came back full volume. I think the reverb is ok. Do you think it could be a tube driver? Sounds odd that it would shut the amps down. > > Sorry for the overload. I'm excited about these synths. If I fix one I got more than my money back. The Korg is very close. I will cry if I can't fix the P10. > Thanks, > Frank > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: thirteentech > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:54 AM > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new member. > > > Just wanted to introduce myself... I am a synthesizer service tech from Sydney, Australia. I > have been fixing synths since 1982, as well as a lot of touring as a keyboard tech. Currently I > have around 22 vintage machines that I play and use for recording, and have been a warranty > tech in Australia over the years for PPG, Kurzweil E-mu and Sequential. Hope I can help out a
> little on the forum, and learn some new things too :-) > > Steve Jones. >
2008-04-15 by Roy J. Tellason
On Tuesday 15 April 2008 19:11, eggwheatis wrote: > Most, if not all Roland schematics are available in PDF > from...surprise, surprise....Roland! Phone or email them. I thought I had read somewhere that Roland was doing this, but wasn't sure. Do you have a link handy? One of my correspondents on the manuals issue offered to fill me in on what the attitude of the various companies was with regard to copying and such, but when I accepted his offer he never did get around to getting back to me. I'm going to have to take a look at how those PDFs compare with the stuff on paper. I am having some difficulty envisioning how they'd deal with some of those bigger fold-out diagrams. One correspondent wrote to me of having a schematic split across four pages in the electronic version of something they'd downloaded, making it awkward to work with. A really big graphic file that you could scroll around might work, I suppose. -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin
2008-04-16 by Philip
Well I mail or phone the spares dept at roland UK.. I
email at night and next morning the PDF is usually
waiting for me in my email. Great service!
I got the RS-09, SPV-335, MSQ-700 and the VS-880EX
PDF's from there and they were very high quality..I
couldn't find these service manuals anywhere else.
My printer allows me to print out huge schematics made
up of A4 sheets so it's a breeze.
--- "Roy J. Tellason" <rtellason@...> wrote:
> On Tuesday 15 April 2008 19:11, eggwheatis wrote:
> > Most, if not all Roland schematics are available
> in PDF
> > from...surprise, surprise....Roland! Phone or
> email them.
>
> I thought I had read somewhere that Roland was doing
> this, but wasn't sure.
> Do you have a link handy?
>
> One of my correspondents on the manuals issue
> offered to fill me in on what
> the attitude of the various companies was with
> regard to copying and such,
> but when I accepted his offer he never did get
> around to getting back to me.
>
> I'm going to have to take a look at how those PDFs
> compare with the stuff on
> paper. I am having some difficulty envisioning how
> they'd deal with some of
> those bigger fold-out diagrams. One correspondent
> wrote to me of having a
> schematic split across four pages in the electronic
> version of something
> they'd downloaded, making it awkward to work with.
> A really big graphic
> file that you could scroll around might work, I
> suppose.
>
> --
> Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most
> unrelenting -- and
> ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a
> critter that can
> be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein,
> "The Puppet Masters"
> -
> Information is more dangerous than cannon to a
> society ruled by lies. --James
> M Dakin
>
___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! For Good helps you make a difference
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/2008-04-16 by Roy J. Tellason
On Tuesday 15 April 2008 20:29, Philip wrote: > Well I mail or phone the spares dept at roland UK.. I > email at night and next morning the PDF is usually > waiting for me in my email. Great service! > > I got the RS-09, SPV-335, MSQ-700 and the VS-880EX > PDF's from there and they were very high quality..I > couldn't find these service manuals anywhere else. > > My printer allows me to print out huge schematics made > up of A4 sheets so it's a breeze. I suppose you don't have a link handy, then. Not that the UK branch is probably what I want anyway... I know about A4, as that's what Roland and Korg manuals were typically printed on, which is just slightly larger than US "letter size" to make life interesting when it comes to filing things, etc. :-) > --- "Roy J. Tellason" <rtellason@...> wrote: > > On Tuesday 15 April 2008 19:11, eggwheatis wrote: > > > Most, if not all Roland schematics are available > > > in PDF from...surprise, surprise....Roland! Phone or > > > email them. > > > > I thought I had read somewhere that Roland was doing > > this, but wasn't sure. Do you have a link handy? > > > > One of my correspondents on the manuals issue > > offered to fill me in on what > > the attitude of the various companies was with > > regard to copying and such, > > but when I accepted his offer he never did get > > around to getting back to me. > > > > I'm going to have to take a look at how those PDFs > > compare with the stuff on > > paper. I am having some difficulty envisioning how > > they'd deal with some of > > those bigger fold-out diagrams. One correspondent > > wrote to me of having a > > schematic split across four pages in the electronic > > version of something > > they'd downloaded, making it awkward to work with. > > A really big graphic > > file that you could scroll around might work, I > > suppose. > > > > -- > > Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most > > unrelenting -- and > > ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a > > critter that can > > be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, > > "The Puppet Masters" > > - > > Information is more dangerous than cannon to a > > society ruled by lies. --James > > M Dakin > > ___________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! For Good helps you make a difference > > http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/ > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin
2008-04-16 by Stephen Jones
Wow, that's a lot of questions. I can help out, but
not all at once, I have a workshop full of synths at
the moment that I am fixing 1 by 1. Starting the the
Prophet 10, do you have a service manual for it?
--- Frank Simon <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> Hi Steve,
> I hope everyone doesn't attack you at once. I had a
> crazy experience where I bought a Prophet 10, Korg
> Trident Mk II, and Roland JX 10 all for $30 each non
> working. I am an RF engineer and novice
> musician/Audio repairman. I know linear more than
> digital but I am going to throw out some questions
> since you offered.
> 1)My Trident I fixed due to NiCad battery meltdown
> destroying traces but I repaired the PC board(with
> wire) and all works great Strings, Brass,
> FLANGER!!!, but the Synth section makes occasional
> odd noises sounds like processing. Any trouble
> shooting advice would be appreciated.
> 2) The P10 had no sound, lit up, I found a 5V
> regulator pulled down. Found the bad IC(burned my
> finger). Then like a dumb a## I was checking -5V reg
> T0-220 on a voice board,slipped shorted output to
> input and took out 4 CEM3310. OUCH!! Still don't
> know why due to internal Zener in CEM3310. I want to
> continue toubleshooting but don't want to buy pricey
> chips until my confidence is up. Can I put the board
> in without 4 of the 10 CEM3310 and continue. I'm
> sure no sound but -5v reg will be up. Any advice
> appreciated.
> 3) Roland JX10 is total dead. I think power supply
> was good. Lower priority. This one I don't have a
> schematic. Do you have one?
> 4) Finally my Hammond H-112 had low volume and I
> found unplugging the Reverb tank it came back full
> volume. I think the reverb is ok. Do you think it
> could be a tube driver? Sounds odd that it would
> shut the amps down.
>
> Sorry for the overload. I'm excited about these
> synths. If I fix one I got more than my money back.
> The Korg is very close. I will cry if I can't fix
> the P10.
> Thanks,
> Frank
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: thirteentech
> To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:54 AM
> Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new
> member.
>
>
> Just wanted to introduce myself... I am a
> synthesizer service tech from Sydney, Australia. I
> have been fixing synths since 1982, as well as a
> lot of touring as a keyboard tech. Currently I
> have around 22 vintage machines that I play and
> use for recording, and have been a warranty
> tech in Australia over the years for PPG, Kurzweil
> E-mu and Sequential. Hope I can help out a
> little on the forum, and learn some new things too
> :-)
>
> Steve Jones.
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ2008-04-16 by Mike de Vries
between 2008-04-01 and 9999-99-99 Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.
2008-04-16 by Stephen Jones
Hi Mike, thanks very much!
--- Mike de Vries <mrjdevries@...> wrote:
>
> Good to see you here in this mailing list Steve..
>
> (Steve has fixed a few of my things, is a nice guy
> & a damn good synth tech!)
>
> Regards
>
> Mike
>
> between 2008-04-01 and 9999-99-99 <hr
> size=1>Get the name you always wanted with the <a
>
href="http://au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/taglines/au/y7mail/yahoo.com.au/*http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail/?p1=ni&p2=general&p3=tagline&p4=yahoo"
> target=_blank>new y7mail email address</a>.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ2008-04-16 by Keith Niver
Where are you located Steve? Do you belong to MITA (Musical Instrument Technicians Association, International)? If you are interested, contact me or go to www.mitatechs.com. Keith A Niver Certified MITA Technician Niver's Inc 801 Columbia St Hudson, NY 12534 518-828-0616, work 518-755-6960, cell kaniver@...
-----Original Message----- From: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Jones Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:36 PM To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new member. Wow, that's a lot of questions. I can help out, but not all at once, I have a workshop full of synths at the moment that I am fixing 1 by 1. Starting the the Prophet 10, do you have a service manual for it? --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@neo. <mailto:fsimon001%40neo.rr.com> rr.com> wrote: > Hi Steve, > I hope everyone doesn't attack you at once. I had a > crazy experience where I bought a Prophet 10, Korg > Trident Mk II, and Roland JX 10 all for $30 each non > working. I am an RF engineer and novice > musician/Audio repairman. I know linear more than > digital but I am going to throw out some questions > since you offered. > 1)My Trident I fixed due to NiCad battery meltdown > destroying traces but I repaired the PC board(with > wire) and all works great Strings, Brass, > FLANGER!!!, but the Synth section makes occasional > odd noises sounds like processing. Any trouble > shooting advice would be appreciated. > 2) The P10 had no sound, lit up, I found a 5V > regulator pulled down. Found the bad IC(burned my > finger). Then like a dumb a## I was checking -5V reg > T0-220 on a voice board,slipped shorted output to > input and took out 4 CEM3310. OUCH!! Still don't > know why due to internal Zener in CEM3310. I want to > continue toubleshooting but don't want to buy pricey > chips until my confidence is up. Can I put the board > in without 4 of the 10 CEM3310 and continue. I'm > sure no sound but -5v reg will be up. Any advice > appreciated. > 3) Roland JX10 is total dead. I think power supply > was good. Lower priority. This one I don't have a > schematic. Do you have one? > 4) Finally my Hammond H-112 had low volume and I > found unplugging the Reverb tank it came back full > volume. I think the reverb is ok. Do you think it > could be a tube driver? Sounds odd that it would > shut the amps down. > > Sorry for the overload. I'm excited about these > synths. If I fix one I got more than my money back. > The Korg is very close. I will cry if I can't fix > the P10. > Thanks, > Frank > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: thirteentech > To: vintagesynthrepair@ <mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:54 AM > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new > member. > > > Just wanted to introduce myself... I am a > synthesizer service tech from Sydney, Australia. I > have been fixing synths since 1982, as well as a > lot of touring as a keyboard tech. Currently I > have around 22 vintage machines that I play and > use for recording, and have been a warranty > tech in Australia over the years for PPG, Kurzweil > E-mu and Sequential. Hope I can help out a > little on the forum, and learn some new things too > :-) > > Steve Jones. > > > > __________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. <http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
2008-04-16 by thirteentech
Thanks Keith, I am in Sydney in Australia, I haven't heard of MITA, I would be very interested in finding out more. Do you mind if I give you a call? --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Keith Niver" <kaniver@...> wrote:
> > Where are you located Steve? Do you belong to MITA (Musical Instrument > Technicians Association, International)? If you are interested, contact me > or go to www.mitatechs.com. > > > > Keith A Niver > > Certified MITA Technician > > Niver's Inc > > 801 Columbia St > > Hudson, NY 12534 > > 518-828-0616, work > > 518-755-6960, cell > > kaniver@... > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Jones > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:36 PM > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new member. > > > > Wow, that's a lot of questions. I can help out, but > not all at once, I have a workshop full of synths at > the moment that I am fixing 1 by 1. Starting the the > Prophet 10, do you have a service manual for it? > > --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@neo. <mailto:fsimon001%40neo.rr.com> rr.com> > wrote: > > > Hi Steve, > > I hope everyone doesn't attack you at once. I had a > > crazy experience where I bought a Prophet 10, Korg > > Trident Mk II, and Roland JX 10 all for $30 each non > > working. I am an RF engineer and novice > > musician/Audio repairman. I know linear more than > > digital but I am going to throw out some questions > > since you offered. > > 1)My Trident I fixed due to NiCad battery meltdown > > destroying traces but I repaired the PC board(with > > wire) and all works great Strings, Brass, > > FLANGER!!!, but the Synth section makes occasional > > odd noises sounds like processing. Any trouble > > shooting advice would be appreciated. > > 2) The P10 had no sound, lit up, I found a 5V > > regulator pulled down. Found the bad IC(burned my > > finger). Then like a dumb a## I was checking -5V reg > > T0-220 on a voice board,slipped shorted output to > > input and took out 4 CEM3310. OUCH!! Still don't > > know why due to internal Zener in CEM3310. I want to > > continue toubleshooting but don't want to buy pricey > > chips until my confidence is up. Can I put the board > > in without 4 of the 10 CEM3310 and continue. I'm > > sure no sound but -5v reg will be up. Any advice > > appreciated. > > 3) Roland JX10 is total dead. I think power supply > > was good. Lower priority. This one I don't have a > > schematic. Do you have one? > > 4) Finally my Hammond H-112 had low volume and I > > found unplugging the Reverb tank it came back full > > volume. I think the reverb is ok. Do you think it > > could be a tube driver? Sounds odd that it would > > shut the amps down. > > > > Sorry for the overload. I'm excited about these > > synths. If I fix one I got more than my money back. > > The Korg is very close. I will cry if I can't fix > > the P10. > > Thanks, > > Frank > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: thirteentech > > To: vintagesynthrepair@ <mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:54 AM > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new > > member. > > > > > > Just wanted to introduce myself... I am a > > synthesizer service tech from Sydney, Australia. I > > have been fixing synths since 1982, as well as a > > lot of touring as a keyboard tech. Currently I > > have around 22 vintage machines that I play and > > use for recording, and have been a warranty > > tech in Australia over the years for PPG, Kurzweil > > E-mu and Sequential. Hope I can help out a > > little on the forum, and learn some new things too > > :-) > > > > Steve Jones. > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. > <http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> > yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >
2008-04-17 by Keith Niver
Feel free to call. I am normally in the shop on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday from 9-5 and Wednesday and Friday from 9-2. 518-828-0616 EDT, or email works too. kaniver@... Keith A Niver
-----Original Message----- From: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of thirteentech Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 6:11 PM To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Hi from a new member. Thanks Keith, I am in Sydney in Australia, I haven't heard of MITA, I would be very interested in finding out more. Do you mind if I give you a call? --- In vintagesynthrepair@ <mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Keith Niver" <kaniver@...> wrote: > > Where are you located Steve? Do you belong to MITA (Musical Instrument > Technicians Association, International)? If you are interested, contact me > or go to www.mitatechs.com. > > > > Keith A Niver > > Certified MITA Technician > > Niver's Inc > > 801 Columbia St > > Hudson, NY 12534 > > 518-828-0616, work > > 518-755-6960, cell > > kaniver@... > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: vintagesynthrepair@ <mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:vintagesynthrepair@ <mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Jones > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:36 PM > To: vintagesynthrepair@ <mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new member. > > > > Wow, that's a lot of questions. I can help out, but > not all at once, I have a workshop full of synths at > the moment that I am fixing 1 by 1. Starting the the > Prophet 10, do you have a service manual for it? > > --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@neo. <mailto:fsimon001%40neo.rr.com> rr.com> > wrote: > > > Hi Steve, > > I hope everyone doesn't attack you at once. I had a > > crazy experience where I bought a Prophet 10, Korg > > Trident Mk II, and Roland JX 10 all for $30 each non > > working. I am an RF engineer and novice > > musician/Audio repairman. I know linear more than > > digital but I am going to throw out some questions > > since you offered. > > 1)My Trident I fixed due to NiCad battery meltdown > > destroying traces but I repaired the PC board(with > > wire) and all works great Strings, Brass, > > FLANGER!!!, but the Synth section makes occasional > > odd noises sounds like processing. Any trouble > > shooting advice would be appreciated. > > 2) The P10 had no sound, lit up, I found a 5V > > regulator pulled down. Found the bad IC(burned my > > finger). Then like a dumb a## I was checking -5V reg > > T0-220 on a voice board,slipped shorted output to > > input and took out 4 CEM3310. OUCH!! Still don't > > know why due to internal Zener in CEM3310. I want to > > continue toubleshooting but don't want to buy pricey > > chips until my confidence is up. Can I put the board > > in without 4 of the 10 CEM3310 and continue. I'm > > sure no sound but -5v reg will be up. Any advice > > appreciated. > > 3) Roland JX10 is total dead. I think power supply > > was good. Lower priority. This one I don't have a > > schematic. Do you have one? > > 4) Finally my Hammond H-112 had low volume and I > > found unplugging the Reverb tank it came back full > > volume. I think the reverb is ok. Do you think it > > could be a tube driver? Sounds odd that it would > > shut the amps down. > > > > Sorry for the overload. I'm excited about these > > synths. If I fix one I got more than my money back. > > The Korg is very close. I will cry if I can't fix > > the P10. > > Thanks, > > Frank > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: thirteentech > > To: vintagesynthrepair@ <mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:54 AM > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new > > member. > > > > > > Just wanted to introduce myself... I am a > > synthesizer service tech from Sydney, Australia. I > > have been fixing synths since 1982, as well as a > > lot of touring as a keyboard tech. Currently I > > have around 22 vintage machines that I play and > > use for recording, and have been a warranty > > tech in Australia over the years for PPG, Kurzweil > > E-mu and Sequential. Hope I can help out a > > little on the forum, and learn some new things too > > :-) > > > > Steve Jones. > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. > <http://mobile. <http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> > yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >
2008-04-18 by Frank Simon
----- Original Message -----From: Stephen JonesSent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:35 PMSubject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new member.Wow, that's a lot of questions. I can help out, but
not all at once, I have a workshop full of synths at
the moment that I am fixing 1 by 1. Starting the the
Prophet 10, do you have a service manual for it?
--- Frank Simon <fsimon001@neo.rr.com> wrote:
> Hi Steve,
> I hope everyone doesn't attack you at once. I had a
> crazy experience where I bought a Prophet 10, Korg
> Trident Mk II, and Roland JX 10 all for $30 each non
> working. I am an RF engineer and novice
> musician/Audio repairman. I know linear more than
> digital but I am going to throw out some questions
> since you offered.
> 1)My Trident I fixed due to NiCad battery meltdown
> destroying traces but I repaired the PC board(with
> wire) and all works great Strings, Brass,
> FLANGER!!!, but the Synth section makes occasional
> odd noises sounds like processing. Any trouble
> shooting advice would be appreciated.
> 2) The P10 had no sound, lit up, I found a 5V
> regulator pulled down. Found the bad IC(burned my
> finger). Then like a dumb a## I was checking -5V reg
> T0-220 on a voice board,slipped shorted output to
> input and took out 4 CEM3310. OUCH!! Still don't
> know why due to internal Zener in CEM3310. I want to
> continue toubleshooting but don't want to buy pricey
> chips until my confidence is up. Can I put the board
> in without 4 of the 10 CEM3310 and continue. I'm
> sure no sound but -5v reg will be up. Any advice
> appreciated.
> 3) Roland JX10 is total dead. I think power supply
> was good. Lower priority. This one I don't have a
> schematic. Do you have one?
> 4) Finally my Hammond H-112 had low volume and I
> found unplugging the Reverb tank it came back full
> volume. I think the reverb is ok. Do you think it
> could be a tube driver? Sounds odd that it would
> shut the amps down.
>
> Sorry for the overload. I'm excited about these
> synths. If I fix one I got more than my money back.
> The Korg is very close. I will cry if I can't fix
>; the P10.
> Thanks,
> Frank
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: thirteentech
> To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:54 AM
> Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new
> member.
>
>
> Just wanted to introduce myself... I am a
> synthesizer service tech from Sydney, Australia. I
> have been fixing synths since 1982, as well as a
> lot of touring as a keyboard tech. Currently I
> have around 22 vintage machines that I play and
> use for recording, and have been a warranty
> tech in Australia over the years for PPG, Kurzweil
> E-mu and Sequential. Hope I can help out a
> little on the forum, and learn some new things too
> :-)
>
> Steve Jones.
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
2008-04-18 by thirteentech
The Prophet 10 service manual shows that U603 is a +5V for rev. 1 machines, or +12V for Rev. 0 machines. It looks like that supply is for either a 5V cassette drive or a 12V wafer drive depending on which version of machine you have, but the schematic also shows a note on the 5.6V rail of the PSU saying: "To PCB 9, Rev 0, not used for Rev 1". So depending on whether you have a Rev 0 or Rev 1, there will be different supplies on P603 pins 2 and 3. --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@...> wrote: > > Hi Steve, > I have a manual I downloaded from paintingwithsound.com. It is hard to read. I was a little disappointed when the power supply in my schematic states VR603 was 12v T0-3 down to the wire color. Later to find out as I traced it to the PCB9 Polyphonic sequencer CPU board it needed to be a 5V. It took out a Dual Flip Flop U931. After that I put a proper 5V in and nothing is shorted. But doesn't mean something else was't damaged on that board just not shorted. That same part was originally bad when the original 5V Reg was in then the 12V took it out again. That was the first bonehead move. And as you may read from my first mail the CEM3310 story. So my progress is negative. If you can offer a systematic approach to trouble shoot this maybe by isolating boards or whatever I would appreciate it. If you have a readable schematic you can share it would be great.
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: Stephen Jones > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:35 PM > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new member. > > > Wow, that's a lot of questions. I can help out, but > not all at once, I have a workshop full of synths at > the moment that I am fixing 1 by 1. Starting the the > Prophet 10, do you have a service manual for it? > > --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@...> wrote: > > > Hi Steve, > > I hope everyone doesn't attack you at once. I had a > > crazy experience where I bought a Prophet 10, Korg > > Trident Mk II, and Roland JX 10 all for $30 each non > > working. I am an RF engineer and novice > > musician/Audio repairman. I know linear more than > > digital but I am going to throw out some questions > > since you offered. > > 1)My Trident I fixed due to NiCad battery meltdown > > destroying traces but I repaired the PC board(with > > wire) and all works great Strings, Brass, > > FLANGER!!!, but the Synth section makes occasional > > odd noises sounds like processing. Any trouble > > shooting advice would be appreciated. > > 2) The P10 had no sound, lit up, I found a 5V > > regulator pulled down. Found the bad IC(burned my > > finger). Then like a dumb a## I was checking -5V reg > > T0-220 on a voice board,slipped shorted output to > > input and took out 4 CEM3310. OUCH!! Still don't > > know why due to internal Zener in CEM3310. I want to > > continue toubleshooting but don't want to buy pricey > > chips until my confidence is up. Can I put the board > > in without 4 of the 10 CEM3310 and continue. I'm > > sure no sound but -5v reg will be up. Any advice > > appreciated. > > 3) Roland JX10 is total dead. I think power supply > > was good. Lower priority. This one I don't have a > > schematic. Do you have one? > > 4) Finally my Hammond H-112 had low volume and I > > found unplugging the Reverb tank it came back full > > volume. I think the reverb is ok. Do you think it > > could be a tube driver? Sounds odd that it would > > shut the amps down. > > > > Sorry for the overload. I'm excited about these > > synths. If I fix one I got more than my money back. > > The Korg is very close. I will cry if I can't fix > > the P10. > > Thanks, > > Frank > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: thirteentech > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:54 AM > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new > > member. > > > > > > Just wanted to introduce myself... I am a > > synthesizer service tech from Sydney, Australia. I > > have been fixing synths since 1982, as well as a > > lot of touring as a keyboard tech. Currently I > > have around 22 vintage machines that I play and > > use for recording, and have been a warranty > > tech in Australia over the years for PPG, Kurzweil > > E-mu and Sequential. Hope I can help out a > > little on the forum, and learn some new things too > > :-) > > > > Steve Jones. > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >
2008-04-18 by fsimon100
Steve, Thanks, obviously I have a Rev 1. My schematic is a scanned copy and didn't see the note and still don't but I know you are correct. What do you think I could have damaged with the 12v I put in? Like I said U931 shorted and got hot. I know that may be a tough question without personally probing but the board is holding the 5v now. How could I verify functionality of PCB9. Also if I put one of the voice boards in with 4 CEM3310 missing can I continue troubleshooting? Is there a chance I could get confidence from a oscope or panel lights before I buy four CEMs. --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "thirteentech" <thirteentech@...> wrote: > > The Prophet 10 service manual shows that U603 is a +5V for rev. 1 machines, or +12V for Rev. 0 machines. It looks like that supply is for either a 5V > cassette drive or a 12V wafer drive depending on which version of machine you have, but the schematic also shows a note on the 5.6V rail of the PSU > saying: "To PCB 9, Rev 0, not used for Rev 1". So depending on whether you have a Rev 0 or Rev 1, there will be different supplies on P603 pins 2 and > 3. > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > Hi Steve, > > I have a manual I downloaded from paintingwithsound.com. It is hard to read. I was a little disappointed when the power supply in my schematic > states VR603 was 12v T0-3 down to the wire color. Later to find out as I traced it to the PCB9 Polyphonic sequencer CPU board it needed to be a 5V. > It took out a Dual Flip Flop U931. After that I put a proper 5V in and nothing is shorted. But doesn't mean something else was't damaged on that > board just not shorted. That same part was originally bad when the original 5V Reg was in then the 12V took it out again. That was the first > bonehead move. And as you may read from my first mail the CEM3310 story. So my progress is negative. If you can offer a systematic approach to > trouble shoot this maybe by isolating boards or whatever I would appreciate it. If you have a readable schematic you can share it would be great. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Stephen Jones > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:35 PM > > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new member. > > > > > > Wow, that's a lot of questions. I can help out, but > > not all at once, I have a workshop full of synths at > > the moment that I am fixing 1 by 1. Starting the the > > Prophet 10, do you have a service manual for it? > > > > --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > Hi Steve, > > > I hope everyone doesn't attack you at once. I had a > > > crazy experience where I bought a Prophet 10, Korg > > > Trident Mk II, and Roland JX 10 all for $30 each non > > > working. I am an RF engineer and novice > > > musician/Audio repairman. I know linear more than > > > digital but I am going to throw out some questions > > > since you offered. > > > 1)My Trident I fixed due to NiCad battery meltdown > > > destroying traces but I repaired the PC board(with > > > wire) and all works great Strings, Brass, > > > FLANGER!!!, but the Synth section makes occasional > > > odd noises sounds like processing. Any trouble > > > shooting advice would be appreciated. > > > 2) The P10 had no sound, lit up, I found a 5V > > > regulator pulled down. Found the bad IC(burned my > > > finger). Then like a dumb a## I was checking -5V reg > > > T0-220 on a voice board,slipped shorted output to > > > input and took out 4 CEM3310. OUCH!! Still don't > > > know why due to internal Zener in CEM3310. I want to > > > continue toubleshooting but don't want to buy pricey > > > chips until my confidence is up. Can I put the board > > > in without 4 of the 10 CEM3310 and continue. I'm > > > sure no sound but -5v reg will be up. Any advice > > > appreciated. > > > 3) Roland JX10 is total dead. I think power supply > > > was good. Lower priority. This one I don't have a > > > schematic. Do you have one? > > > 4) Finally my Hammond H-112 had low volume and I > > > found unplugging the Reverb tank it came back full > > > volume. I think the reverb is ok. Do you think it > > > could be a tube driver? Sounds odd that it would > > > shut the amps down. > > > > > > Sorry for the overload. I'm excited about these > > > synths. If I fix one I got more than my money back. > > > The Korg is very close. I will cry if I can't fix > > > the P10. > > > Thanks, > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: thirteentech > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:54 AM > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new > > > member. > > > > > > > > > Just wanted to introduce myself... I am a > > > synthesizer service tech from Sydney, Australia. I > > > have been fixing synths since 1982, as well as a > > > lot of touring as a keyboard tech. Currently I > > > have around 22 vintage machines that I play and > > > use for recording, and have been a warranty > > > tech in Australia over the years for PPG, Kurzweil > > > E-mu and Sequential. Hope I can help out a > > > little on the forum, and learn some new things too > > > :-) > > > > > > Steve Jones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > >
2008-04-18 by fsimon100
I just called Roland and was told it was $35 plus shipping. I forgot to ask if it was available in PDF for free. I figured they would have offered if it was an option. Maybe I'll call back but if anyone has a scanned copy I would appreciate it. --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "eggwheatis" <eggwheatis@...> wrote: > > Most, if not all Roland schematics are available in PDF > from...surprise, surprise....Roland! Phone or email them. > > He he.. you'll get a lot more than your money back right now..as > is..so I wouldn't be too worried. > > >>Roland JX10 is total dead. I think power supply was good. Lower > priority. This one I don't have a schematic. Do you have one? > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > Hi Steve, > > I hope everyone doesn't attack you at once. I had a crazy > experience where I bought a Prophet 10, Korg Trident Mk II, and Roland > JX 10 all for $30 each non working. I am an RF engineer and novice > musician/Audio repairman. I know linear more than digital but I am > going to throw out some questions since you offered. > > 1)My Trident I fixed due to NiCad battery meltdown destroying traces > but I repaired the PC board(with wire) and all works great Strings, > Brass, FLANGER!!!, but the Synth section makes occasional odd noises > sounds like processing. Any trouble shooting advice would be appreciated. > > 2) The P10 had no sound, lit up, I found a 5V regulator pulled down. > Found the bad IC(burned my finger). Then like a dumb a## I was > checking -5V reg T0-220 on a voice board,slipped shorted output to > input and took out 4 CEM3310. OUCH!! Still don't know why due to > internal Zener in CEM3310. I want to continue toubleshooting but don't > want to buy pricey chips until my confidence is up. Can I put the > board in without 4 of the 10 CEM3310 and continue. I'm sure no sound > but -5v reg will be up. Any advice appreciated. > > 3) Roland JX10 is total dead. I think power supply was good. Lower > priority. This one I don't have a schematic. Do you have one? > > 4) Finally my Hammond H-112 had low volume and I found unplugging > the Reverb tank it came back full volume. I think the reverb is ok. Do > you think it could be a tube driver? Sounds odd that it would shut the > amps down. > > > > Sorry for the overload. I'm excited about these synths. If I fix one > I got more than my money back. The Korg is very close. I will cry if I > can't fix the P10. > > Thanks, > > Frank > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: thirteentech > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:54 AM > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new member. > > > > > > Just wanted to introduce myself... I am a synthesizer service tech > from Sydney, Australia. I > > have been fixing synths since 1982, as well as a lot of touring as > a keyboard tech. Currently I > > have around 22 vintage machines that I play and use for recording,
> and have been a warranty > > tech in Australia over the years for PPG, Kurzweil E-mu and > Sequential. Hope I can help out a > > little on the forum, and learn some new things too :-) > > > > Steve Jones. > > >
2008-04-18 by Philip
if you get stuck just mail the UK branch of Roland and
ask for the PDF to be mailed to you.
Phil.
--- fsimon100 <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> I just called Roland and was told it was $35 plus
> shipping. I forgot
> to ask if it was available in PDF for free. I
> figured they would
> have offered if it was an option. Maybe I'll call
> back but if anyone
> has a scanned copy I would appreciate it.
>
> --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "eggwheatis"
> <eggwheatis@...> wrote:
> >
> > Most, if not all Roland schematics are available
> in PDF
> > from...surprise, surprise....Roland! Phone or
> email them.
> >
> > He he.. you'll get a lot more than your money back
> right now..as
> > is..so I wouldn't be too worried.
> >
> > >>Roland JX10 is total dead. I think power supply
> was good. Lower
> > priority. This one I don't have a schematic. Do
> you have one?
> >
> >
> > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank
> Simon"
> > <fsimon001@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Steve,
> > > I hope everyone doesn't attack you at once. I
> had a crazy
> > experience where I bought a Prophet 10, Korg
> Trident Mk II, and
> Roland
> > JX 10 all for $30 each non working. I am an RF
> engineer and novice
> > musician/Audio repairman. I know linear more than
> digital but I am
> > going to throw out some questions since you
> offered.
> > > 1)My Trident I fixed due to NiCad battery
> meltdown destroying
> traces
> > but I repaired the PC board(with wire) and all
> works great Strings,
> > Brass, FLANGER!!!, but the Synth section makes
> occasional odd
> noises
> > sounds like processing. Any trouble shooting
> advice would be
> appreciated.
> > > 2) The P10 had no sound, lit up, I found a 5V
> regulator pulled
> down.
> > Found the bad IC(burned my finger). Then like a
> dumb a## I was
> > checking -5V reg T0-220 on a voice board,slipped
> shorted output to
> > input and took out 4 CEM3310. OUCH!! Still don't
> know why due to
> > internal Zener in CEM3310. I want to continue
> toubleshooting but
> don't
> > want to buy pricey chips until my confidence is
> up. Can I put the
> > board in without 4 of the 10 CEM3310 and continue.
> I'm sure no
> sound
> > but -5v reg will be up. Any advice appreciated.
> > > 3) Roland JX10 is total dead. I think power
> supply was good.
> Lower
> > priority. This one I don't have a schematic. Do
> you have one?
> > > 4) Finally my Hammond H-112 had low volume and I
> found unplugging
> > the Reverb tank it came back full volume. I think
> the reverb is
> ok. Do
> > you think it could be a tube driver? Sounds odd
> that it would shut
> the
> > amps down.
> > >
> > > Sorry for the overload. I'm excited about these
> synths. If I fix
> one
> > I got more than my money back. The Korg is very
> close. I will cry
> if I
> > can't fix the P10.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Frank
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: thirteentech
> > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:54 AM
> > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new
> member.
> > >
> > >
> > > Just wanted to introduce myself... I am a
> synthesizer service
> tech
> > from Sydney, Australia. I
> > > have been fixing synths since 1982, as well as
> a lot of
> touring as
> > a keyboard tech. Currently I
> > > have around 22 vintage machines that I play
> and use for
> recording,
> > and have been a warranty
> > > tech in Australia over the years for PPG,
> Kurzweil E-mu and
> > Sequential. Hope I can help out a
> > > little on the forum, and learn some new things
> too :-)
> > >
> > > Steve Jones.
> > >
> >
>
>
>
___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! For Good helps you make a difference
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/2008-04-18 by fsimon100
I just called back and they do not offer PDF. It was Roland/US. I'll try UK. --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, Philip <eggwheatis@...> wrote:
> > if you get stuck just mail the UK branch of Roland and > ask for the PDF to be mailed to you. > > Phil. > --- fsimon100 <fsimon001@...> wrote: > > > I just called Roland and was told it was $35 plus > > shipping. I forgot > > to ask if it was available in PDF for free. I > > figured they would > > have offered if it was an option. Maybe I'll call > > back but if anyone > > has a scanned copy I would appreciate it. > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > "eggwheatis" > > <eggwheatis@> wrote: > > > > > > Most, if not all Roland schematics are available > > in PDF > > > from...surprise, surprise....Roland! Phone or > > email them. > > > > > > He he.. you'll get a lot more than your money back > > right now..as > > > is..so I wouldn't be too worried. > > > > > > >>Roland JX10 is total dead. I think power supply > > was good. Lower > > > priority. This one I don't have a schematic. Do > > you have one? > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank > > Simon" > > > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Steve, > > > > I hope everyone doesn't attack you at once. I > > had a crazy > > > experience where I bought a Prophet 10, Korg > > Trident Mk II, and > > Roland > > > JX 10 all for $30 each non working. I am an RF > > engineer and novice > > > musician/Audio repairman. I know linear more than > > digital but I am > > > going to throw out some questions since you > > offered. > > > > 1)My Trident I fixed due to NiCad battery > > meltdown destroying > > traces > > > but I repaired the PC board(with wire) and all > > works great Strings, > > > Brass, FLANGER!!!, but the Synth section makes > > occasional odd > > noises > > > sounds like processing. Any trouble shooting > > advice would be > > appreciated. > > > > 2) The P10 had no sound, lit up, I found a 5V > > regulator pulled > > down. > > > Found the bad IC(burned my finger). Then like a > > dumb a## I was > > > checking -5V reg T0-220 on a voice board,slipped > > shorted output to > > > input and took out 4 CEM3310. OUCH!! Still don't > > know why due to > > > internal Zener in CEM3310. I want to continue > > toubleshooting but > > don't > > > want to buy pricey chips until my confidence is > > up. Can I put the > > > board in without 4 of the 10 CEM3310 and continue. > > I'm sure no > > sound > > > but -5v reg will be up. Any advice appreciated. > > > > 3) Roland JX10 is total dead. I think power > > supply was good. > > Lower > > > priority. This one I don't have a schematic. Do > > you have one? > > > > 4) Finally my Hammond H-112 had low volume and I > > found unplugging > > > the Reverb tank it came back full volume. I think > > the reverb is > > ok. Do > > > you think it could be a tube driver? Sounds odd > > that it would shut > > the > > > amps down. > > > > > > > > Sorry for the overload. I'm excited about these > > synths. If I fix > > one > > > I got more than my money back. The Korg is very > > close. I will cry > > if I > > > can't fix the P10. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:54 AM > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new > > member. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just wanted to introduce myself... I am a > > synthesizer service > > tech > > > from Sydney, Australia. I > > > > have been fixing synths since 1982, as well as > > a lot of > > touring as > > > a keyboard tech. Currently I > > > > have around 22 vintage machines that I play > > and use for > > recording, > > > and have been a warranty > > > > tech in Australia over the years for PPG, > > Kurzweil E-mu and > > > Sequential. Hope I can help out a > > > > little on the forum, and learn some new things > > too :-) > > > > > > > > Steve Jones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! For Good helps you make a difference > > http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/ >
2008-04-18 by Roy J. Tellason
On Friday 18 April 2008 14:58, fsimon100 wrote: > I just called Roland and was told it was $35 plus shipping. I can beat that... :-) -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin
2008-04-18 by thirteentech
Well, if you have metered all of the power supply rails in the machine, and are satisfied that they are all in spec, then go ahead and put the voice boards back in. Remove the known bad 3310's, and if any were in VCA ENVELOPE positions, replace them with 3310's from VCF ENVELOPE positions. This will allow you to set up a patch with the VCF envelopes control turned off and still have all of the voices audible so that you can hear is all the voices are working. The EQ board on P10's was another source of problems too of you don't get any sound. As for the sequencer board, the best way to test functionality is to get the rest of the machine basically playing and then just try out the sequencer and see if it loads and plays back notes. Sounds like your power supply lines are the most important issue, so as I mentioned, put all your attention on them being correct first. There are lots of CEM3310's in the machine, so you can definately get the machine playing without 4 of them, just make sure that there are good chips in the VCA envelope positions. Steve. --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> > Steve, > Thanks, obviously I have a Rev 1. My schematic is a scanned copy and > didn't see the note and still don't but I know you are correct. What > do you think I could have damaged with the 12v I put in? Like I said > U931 shorted and got hot. I know that may be a tough question > without personally probing but the board is holding the 5v now. How > could I verify functionality of PCB9. > > Also if I put one of the voice boards in with 4 CEM3310 missing can > I continue troubleshooting? Is there a chance I could get confidence > from a oscope or panel lights before I buy four CEMs. > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "thirteentech" > <thirteentech@> wrote: > > > > The Prophet 10 service manual shows that U603 is a +5V for rev. 1 > machines, or +12V for Rev. 0 machines. It looks like that supply is > for either a 5V > > cassette drive or a 12V wafer drive depending on which version of > machine you have, but the schematic also shows a note on the 5.6V > rail of the PSU > > saying: "To PCB 9, Rev 0, not used for Rev 1". So depending on > whether you have a Rev 0 or Rev 1, there will be different supplies > on P603 pins 2 and > > 3. > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Steve, > > > I have a manual I downloaded from paintingwithsound.com. It is > hard to read. I was a little disappointed when the power supply in > my schematic > > states VR603 was 12v T0-3 down to the wire color. Later to find > out as I traced it to the PCB9 Polyphonic sequencer CPU board it > needed to be a 5V. > > It took out a Dual Flip Flop U931. After that I put a proper 5V in > and nothing is shorted. But doesn't mean something else was't > damaged on that > > board just not shorted. That same part was originally bad when the > original 5V Reg was in then the 12V took it out again. That was the > first > > bonehead move. And as you may read from my first mail the CEM3310 > story. So my progress is negative. If you can offer a systematic > approach to > > trouble shoot this maybe by isolating boards or whatever I would > appreciate it. If you have a readable schematic you can share it > would be great. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Stephen Jones > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:35 PM > > > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new member. > > > > > > > > > Wow, that's a lot of questions. I can help out, but > > > not all at once, I have a workshop full of synths at > > > the moment that I am fixing 1 by 1. Starting the the > > > Prophet 10, do you have a service manual for it? > > > > > > --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Steve, > > > > I hope everyone doesn't attack you at once. I had a > > > > crazy experience where I bought a Prophet 10, Korg > > > > Trident Mk II, and Roland JX 10 all for $30 each non > > > > working. I am an RF engineer and novice > > > > musician/Audio repairman. I know linear more than > > > > digital but I am going to throw out some questions > > > > since you offered. > > > > 1)My Trident I fixed due to NiCad battery meltdown > > > > destroying traces but I repaired the PC board(with > > > > wire) and all works great Strings, Brass, > > > > FLANGER!!!, but the Synth section makes occasional > > > > odd noises sounds like processing. Any trouble > > > > shooting advice would be appreciated. > > > > 2) The P10 had no sound, lit up, I found a 5V > > > > regulator pulled down. Found the bad IC(burned my > > > > finger). Then like a dumb a## I was checking -5V reg > > > > T0-220 on a voice board,slipped shorted output to > > > > input and took out 4 CEM3310. OUCH!! Still don't > > > > know why due to internal Zener in CEM3310. I want to > > > > continue toubleshooting but don't want to buy pricey > > > > chips until my confidence is up. Can I put the board > > > > in without 4 of the 10 CEM3310 and continue. I'm > > > > sure no sound but -5v reg will be up. Any advice > > > > appreciated. > > > > 3) Roland JX10 is total dead. I think power supply > > > > was good. Lower priority. This one I don't have a > > > > schematic. Do you have one? > > > > 4) Finally my Hammond H-112 had low volume and I > > > > found unplugging the Reverb tank it came back full > > > > volume. I think the reverb is ok. Do you think it > > > > could be a tube driver? Sounds odd that it would > > > > shut the amps down. > > > > > > > > Sorry for the overload. I'm excited about these > > > > synths. If I fix one I got more than my money back. > > > > The Korg is very close. I will cry if I can't fix > > > > the P10. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:54 AM > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new > > > > member. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just wanted to introduce myself... I am a > > > > synthesizer service tech from Sydney, Australia. I > > > > have been fixing synths since 1982, as well as a > > > > lot of touring as a keyboard tech. Currently I > > > > have around 22 vintage machines that I play and > > > > use for recording, and have been a warranty > > > > tech in Australia over the years for PPG, Kurzweil > > > > E-mu and Sequential. Hope I can help out a > > > > little on the forum, and learn some new things too > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > Steve Jones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > >
2008-04-18 by Frank Simon
----- Original Message -----From: thirteentechSent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:04 PMSubject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member).Well, if you have metered all of the power supply rails in the machine, and are satisfied
that they are all in spec, then go ahead and put the voice boards back in. Remove the
known bad 3310's, and if any were in VCA ENVELOPE positions, replace them with 3310's
from VCF ENVELOPE positions. This will allow you to set up a patch with the VCF envelopes
control turned off and still have all of the voices audible so that you can hear is all the
voices are working.
The EQ board on P10's was another source of problems too of you don't get any sound.
As for the sequencer board, the best way to test functionality is to get the rest of the
machine basically playing and then just try out the sequencer and see if it loads and plays
back notes.
Sounds like your power supply lines are the most important issue, so as I mentioned, put
all your attention on them being correct first. There are lots of CEM3310's in the machine,
so you can definately get the machine playing without 4 of them, just make sure that there
are good chips in the VCA envelope positions.
Steve.
--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" ..> wrote:
>
> Steve,
> Thanks, obviously I have a Rev 1. My schematic is a scanned copy and
> didn't see the note and still don't but I know you are correct. What
> do you think I could have damaged with the 12v I put in? Like I said
> U931 shorted and got hot. I know that may be a tough question
> without personally probing but the board is holding the 5v now. How
> could I verify functionality of PCB9.
>
> Also if I put one of the voice boards in with 4 CEM3310 missing can
> I continue troubleshooting? Is there a chance I could get confidence
> from a oscope or panel lights before I buy four CEMs.
>
> --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "thirteentech"
> > wrote:
> >
> > The Prophet 10 service manual shows that U603 is a +5V for rev. 1
> machines, or +12V for Rev. 0 machines. It looks like that supply is
> for either a 5V
> > cassette drive or a 12V wafer drive depending on which version of
> machine you have, but the schematic also shows a note on the 5.6V
> rail of the PSU
> > saying: "To PCB 9, Rev 0, not used for Rev 1". So depending on
> whether you have a Rev 0 or Rev 1, there will be different supplies
> on P603 pins 2 and
> > 3.
> >
> >
> > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon"
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Steve,
> > > I have a manual I downloaded from paintingwithsound.com. It is
> hard to read. I was a little disappointed when the power supply in
> my schematic
> > states VR603 was 12v T0-3 down to the wire color. Later to find
> out as I traced it to the PCB9 Polyphonic sequencer CPU board it
> needed to be a 5V.
> > It took out a Dual Flip Flop U931. After that I put a proper 5V in
> and nothing is shorted. But doesn't mean something else was't
> damaged on that
> > board just not shorted. That same part was originally bad when the
> original 5V Reg was in then the 12V took it out again. That was the
> first
> > bonehead move. And as you may read from my first mail the CEM3310
> story. So my progress is negative. If you can offer a systematic
> approach to
> > trouble shoot this maybe by isolating boards or whatever I would
> appreciate it. If you have a readable schematic you can share it
> would be great.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Stephen Jones
> > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:35 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new member.
> > >
> > >
> > > Wow, that's a lot of questions. I can help out, but
> > > not all at once, I have a workshop full of synths at
> > > the moment that I am fixing 1 by 1. Starting the the
> > > Prophet 10, do you have a service manual for it?
> > >
> > > --- Frank Simon wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Steve,
> > > > I hope everyone doesn't attack you at once. I had a
> > > > crazy experience where I bought a Prophet 10, Korg
> > > > Trident Mk II, and Roland JX 10 all for $30 each non
> > > > working. I am an RF engineer and novice
> > > > musician/Audio repairman. I know linear more than
> > > > digital but I am going to throw out some questions
> > > > since you offered.
> >; > > 1)My Trident I fixed due to NiCad battery meltdown
> > > > destroying traces but I repaired the PC board(with
> > > > wire) and all works great Strings, Brass,
> > > > FLANGER!!!, but the Synth section makes occasional
> > > > odd noises sounds like processing. Any trouble
> > > > shooting advice would be appreciated.
> > > > 2) The P10 had no sound, lit up, I found a 5V
> > > > regulator pulled down. Found the bad IC(burned my
> > > > finger). Then like a dumb a## I was checking -5V reg
> > > > T0-220 on a voice board,slipped shorted output to
> > > > input and took out 4 CEM3310. OUCH!! Still don't
> > > > know why due to internal Zener in CEM3310. I want to
> > > > continue toubleshooting but don't want to buy pricey
> > > > chips until my confidence is up. Can I put the board
> > > > in without 4 of the 10 CEM3310 and continue. I'm
> > > > sure no sound but -5v reg will be up. Any advice
> > > > appreciated.
> > > > 3) Roland JX10 is total dead. I think power supply
> > > > was good. Lower priority. This one I don't have a
> > > > schematic. Do you have one?
> > > > 4) Finally my Hammond H-112 had low volume and I
> > > > found unplugging the Reverb tank it came back full
> > > > volume. I think the reverb is ok. Do you think it
> > > > could be a tube driver? Sounds odd that it would
> > > > shut the amps down.
> > > >;
> > > > Sorry for the overload. I'm excited about these
> > > > synths. If I fix one I got more than my money back.
> > > > The Korg is very close. I will cry if I can't fix
> > > > the P10.
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Frank
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: thirteentech
> > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:54 AM
> > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new
> > > > member.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Just wanted to introduce myself... I am a
> > > > synthesizer service tech from Sydney, Australia. I
> > > > have been fixing synths since 1982, as well as a
> > > > lot of touring as a keyboard tech. Currently I
> > > > have around 22 vintage machines that I play and
> > > > use for recording, and have been a warranty
> > > > tech in Australia over the years for PPG, Kurzweil
> > > > E-mu and Sequential. Hope I can help out a
> > > > little on the forum, and learn some new things too
> > > > :-)
> > > >
> > > > Steve Jones.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________________
> > > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> > >
> >
>
2008-04-19 by thirteentech
Each of the 5 voices on each voice board has two CEM3310 envelope generators. One controls the volume envelope of the voice, and the other controls the filter cutoff of the voice if you bring up the filter envelope modulation control. If the 3310's in the filter control line are faulty it should only manifest when you turn on the filter envelope modulation. If this is off then the voice should sound if the VCF cutoff pot is set open. If you have bad 3310's in the VCA envelpoe position, the voice won't sound. I am assuming that your P10 has Rev 3.x Prophet 5 voice boards in it, because in the Sequential System Technical manual which covers all Prophets from Rev 3.0-3.2, the Prophet 10 and the Poly Sequencer, they all use the same basic voice board. So for instance, in Voice 1 of the voice board, U412 is the amplifier envelope generator, and U417 is the filter envelope generator. --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@...> wrote: > > Steve, > I am pleased to know there is a technique to troube this with the bad ICs. I hope to get to that point soon. If I remember there were no LEDs on control panel lit when turned on. Is there a local spot that isolates that symptom? I haven't removed the top boards yet. Hopefully I can handle that. > > I guess I am confused on VCA and VCF envelope positions. Can you give me a explanation of how to determine which state the IC is in. > Frank > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: thirteentech > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:04 PM > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > Well, if you have metered all of the power supply rails in the machine, and are satisfied > that they are all in spec, then go ahead and put the voice boards back in. Remove the > known bad 3310's, and if any were in VCA ENVELOPE positions, replace them with 3310's > from VCF ENVELOPE positions. This will allow you to set up a patch with the VCF envelopes > control turned off and still have all of the voices audible so that you can hear is all the > voices are working. > > The EQ board on P10's was another source of problems too of you don't get any sound. > > As for the sequencer board, the best way to test functionality is to get the rest of the > machine basically playing and then just try out the sequencer and see if it loads and plays > back notes. > > Sounds like your power supply lines are the most important issue, so as I mentioned, put > all your attention on them being correct first. There are lots of CEM3310's in the machine, > so you can definately get the machine playing without 4 of them, just make sure that there
> are good chips in the VCA envelope positions. > > Steve. > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > Steve, > > Thanks, obviously I have a Rev 1. My schematic is a scanned copy and > > didn't see the note and still don't but I know you are correct. What > > do you think I could have damaged with the 12v I put in? Like I said > > U931 shorted and got hot. I know that may be a tough question > > without personally probing but the board is holding the 5v now. How > > could I verify functionality of PCB9. > > > > Also if I put one of the voice boards in with 4 CEM3310 missing can > > I continue troubleshooting? Is there a chance I could get confidence > > from a oscope or panel lights before I buy four CEMs. > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "thirteentech" > > <thirteentech@> wrote: > > > > > > The Prophet 10 service manual shows that U603 is a +5V for rev. 1 > > machines, or +12V for Rev. 0 machines. It looks like that supply is > > for either a 5V > > > cassette drive or a 12V wafer drive depending on which version of > > machine you have, but the schematic also shows a note on the 5.6V > > rail of the PSU > > > saying: "To PCB 9, Rev 0, not used for Rev 1". So depending on > > whether you have a Rev 0 or Rev 1, there will be different supplies > > on P603 pins 2 and > > > 3. > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" > > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Steve, > > > > I have a manual I downloaded from paintingwithsound.com. It is > > hard to read. I was a little disappointed when the power supply in > > my schematic > > > states VR603 was 12v T0-3 down to the wire color. Later to find > > out as I traced it to the PCB9 Polyphonic sequencer CPU board it > > needed to be a 5V. > > > It took out a Dual Flip Flop U931. After that I put a proper 5V in > > and nothing is shorted. But doesn't mean something else was't > > damaged on that > > > board just not shorted. That same part was originally bad when the > > original 5V Reg was in then the 12V took it out again. That was the > > first > > > bonehead move. And as you may read from my first mail the CEM3310 > > story. So my progress is negative. If you can offer a systematic > > approach to > > > trouble shoot this maybe by isolating boards or whatever I would > > appreciate it. If you have a readable schematic you can share it > > would be great. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Stephen Jones > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:35 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new member. > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow, that's a lot of questions. I can help out, but > > > > not all at once, I have a workshop full of synths at > > > > the moment that I am fixing 1 by 1. Starting the the > > > > Prophet 10, do you have a service manual for it? > > > > > > > > --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Steve, > > > > > I hope everyone doesn't attack you at once. I had a > > > > > crazy experience where I bought a Prophet 10, Korg > > > > > Trident Mk II, and Roland JX 10 all for $30 each non > > > > > working. I am an RF engineer and novice > > > > > musician/Audio repairman. I know linear more than > > > > > digital but I am going to throw out some questions > > > > > since you offered. > > > > > 1)My Trident I fixed due to NiCad battery meltdown > > > > > destroying traces but I repaired the PC board(with > > > > > wire) and all works great Strings, Brass, > > > > > FLANGER!!!, but the Synth section makes occasional > > > > > odd noises sounds like processing. Any trouble > > > > > shooting advice would be appreciated. > > > > > 2) The P10 had no sound, lit up, I found a 5V > > > > > regulator pulled down. Found the bad IC(burned my > > > > > finger). Then like a dumb a## I was checking -5V reg > > > > > T0-220 on a voice board,slipped shorted output to > > > > > input and took out 4 CEM3310. OUCH!! Still don't > > > > > know why due to internal Zener in CEM3310. I want to > > > > > continue toubleshooting but don't want to buy pricey > > > > > chips until my confidence is up. Can I put the board > > > > > in without 4 of the 10 CEM3310 and continue. I'm > > > > > sure no sound but -5v reg will be up. Any advice > > > > > appreciated. > > > > > 3) Roland JX10 is total dead. I think power supply > > > > > was good. Lower priority. This one I don't have a > > > > > schematic. Do you have one? > > > > > 4) Finally my Hammond H-112 had low volume and I > > > > > found unplugging the Reverb tank it came back full > > > > > volume. I think the reverb is ok. Do you think it > > > > > could be a tube driver? Sounds odd that it would > > > > > shut the amps down. > > > > > > > > > > Sorry for the overload. I'm excited about these > > > > > synths. If I fix one I got more than my money back. > > > > > The Korg is very close. I will cry if I can't fix > > > > > the P10. > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:54 AM > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new > > > > > member. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just wanted to introduce myself... I am a > > > > > synthesizer service tech from Sydney, Australia. I > > > > > have been fixing synths since 1982, as well as a > > > > > lot of touring as a keyboard tech. Currently I > > > > > have around 22 vintage machines that I play and > > > > > use for recording, and have been a warranty > > > > > tech in Australia over the years for PPG, Kurzweil > > > > > E-mu and Sequential. Hope I can help out a > > > > > little on the forum, and learn some new things too > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > Steve Jones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > > > > > >
2008-04-20 by Frank Simon
----- Original Message -----From: thirteentechSent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:07 AMSubject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member).Each of the 5 voices on each voice board has two CEM3310 envelope generators. One
controls the volume envelope of the voice, and the other controls the filter cutoff of the
voice if you bring up the filter envelope modulation control. If the 3310's in the filter
control line are faulty it should only manifest when you turn on the filter envelope
modulation. If this is off then the voice should sound if the VCF cutoff pot is set open. If
you have bad 3310's in the VCA envelpoe position, the voice won't sound.
I am assuming that your P10 has Rev 3.x Prophet 5 voice boards in it, because in the
Sequential System Technical manual which covers all Prophets from Rev 3.0-3.2, the
Prophet 10 and the Poly Sequencer, they all use the same basic voice board. So for
instance, in Voice 1 of the voice board, U412 is the amplifier envelope generator, and
U417 is the filter envelope generator.
--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" ..> wrote:
>
> Steve,
> I am pleased to know there is a technique to troube this with the bad ICs. I hope to get
to that point soon. If I remember there were no LEDs on control panel lit when turned on.
Is there a local spot that isolates that symptom? I haven't removed the top boards yet.
Hopefully I can handle that.
>
> I guess I am confused on VCA and VCF envelope positions. Can you give me a
explanation of how to determine which state the IC is in.
> Frank
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: thirteentech
> To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:04 PM
> Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member).
>
>
> Well, if you have metered all of the power supply rails in the machine, and are satisfied
> that they are all in spec, then go ahead and put the voice boards back in. Remove the
> known bad 3310's, and if any were in VCA ENVELOPE positions, replace them with
3310's
> from VCF ENVELOPE positions. This will allow you to set up a patch with the VCF
envelopes
> control turned off and still have all of the voices audible so that you can hear is all the
> voices are working.
>
> The EQ board on P10's was another source of problems too of you don't get any
sound.
>
> As for the sequencer board, the best way to test functionality is to get the rest of the
> machine basically playing and then just try out the sequencer and see if it loads and
plays
> back notes.
>
> Sounds like your power supply lines are the most important issue, so as I mentioned,
put
> all your attention on them being correct first. There are lots of CEM3310's in the
machine,
> so you can definately get the machine playing without 4 of them, just make sure that
there
> are good chips in the VCA envelope positions.
>
> Steve.
>
> --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" wrote:
> >
> > Steve,
> > Thanks, obviously I have a Rev 1. My schematic is a scanned copy and
> > didn't see the note and still don't but I know you are correct. What
> > do you think I could have damaged with the 12v I put in? Like I said
> > U931 shorted and got hot. I know that may be a tough question
> > without personally probing but the board is holding the 5v now. How
> > could I verify functionality of PCB9.
> >
> > Also if I put one of the voice boards in with 4 CEM3310 missing can
> > I continue troubleshooting? Is there a chance I could get confidence
> > from a oscope or panel lights before I buy four CEMs.
> >
> > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "thirteentech"
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > The Prophet 10 service manual shows that U603 is a +5V for rev. 1
> > machines, or +12V for Rev. 0 machines. It looks like that supply is
> > for either a 5V
> > > cassette drive or a 12V wafer drive depending on which version of
> > machine you have, but the schematic also shows a note on the 5.6V
> > rail of the PSU
> > > saying: "To PCB 9, Rev 0, not used for Rev 1". So depending on
> > whether you have a Rev 0 or Rev 1, there will be different supplies
> > on P603 pins 2 and
> > > 3.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon"
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Steve,
> > > > I have a manual I downloaded from paintingwithsound.com. It is
> > hard to read. I was a little disappointed when the power supply in
> > my schematic
> > > states VR603 was 12v T0-3 down to the wire color. Later to find
> > out as I traced it to the PCB9 Polyphonic sequencer CPU board it
> > needed to be a 5V.
> > > It took out a Dual Flip Flop U931. After that I put a proper 5V in
> > and nothing is shorted. But doesn't mean something else was't
> > damaged on that
> > > board just not shorted. That same part was originally bad when the
> > original 5V Reg was in then the 12V took it out again. That was the
> > first
> > > bonehead move. And as you may read from my first mail the CEM3310
> > story. So my progress is negative. If you can offer a systematic
> > approach to
> > > trouble shoot this maybe by isolating boards or whatever I would
> > appreciate it. If you have a readable schematic you can share it
> > would be great.
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Stephen Jones
> > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:35 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new member.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >; > Wow, that's a lot of questions. I can help out, but
> > > > not all at once, I have a workshop full of synths at
> > > > the moment that I am fixing 1 by 1. Starting the the
> > > > Prophet 10, do you have a service manual for it?
> > > >
> > > > --- Frank Simon wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Steve,
> > > > > I hope everyone doesn't attack you at once. I had a
> > > > > crazy experience where I bought a Prophet 10, Korg
> > > > > Trident Mk II, and Roland JX 10 all for $30 each non
> > > > > working. I am an RF engineer and novice
> > > > > musician/Audio repairman. I know linear more than
> > > > > digital but I am going to throw out some questions
> > > > > since you offered.
> > > > > 1)My Trident I fixed due to NiCad battery meltdown
> > > > > destroying traces but I repaired the PC board(with
> > > > > wire) and all works great Strings, Brass,
> > > > > FLANGER!!!, but the Synth section makes occasional
> > > > > odd noises sounds like processing. Any trouble
> > > > > shooting advice would be appreciated.
> > > > > 2) The P10 had no sound, lit up, I found a 5V
> > > > > regulator pulled down. Found the bad IC(burned my
> > > > > finger). Then like a dumb a## I was checking -5V reg
> > > > > T0-220 on a voice board,slipped shorted output to
> > > > > input and took out 4 CEM3310. OUCH!! Still don't
> > > > > know why due to internal Zener in CEM3310. I want to
> >; > > > continue toubleshooting but don't want to buy pricey
> > > > > chips until my confidence is up. Can I put the board
> > > > > in without 4 of the 10 CEM3310 and continue. I'm
> > > > > sure no sound but -5v reg will be up. Any advice
> > > > > appreciated.
> > > > > 3) Roland JX10 is total dead. I think power supply
> > > > > was good. Lower priority. This one I don't have a
> > > > > schematic. Do you have one?
> > > > > 4) Finally my Hammond H-112 had low volume and I
> > > > > found unplugging the Reverb tank it came back full
> > > > > volume. I think the reverb is ok. Do you think it
> > > > > could be a tube driver? Sounds odd that it would
> > > > > shut the amps down.
> > > >; >
> > > > > Sorry for the overload. I'm excited about these
> > > > > synths. If I fix one I got more than my money back.
> > > > > The Korg is very close. I will cry if I can't fix
> > > > > the P10.
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Frank
> >; > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: thirteentech
> > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:54 AM
>; > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new
> > > > > member.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Just wanted to introduce myself... I am a
> > > > > synthesizer service tech from Sydney, Australia. I
> > > > > have been fixing synths since 1982, as well as a
> > > > > lot of touring as a keyboard tech. Currently I
> > > > > have around 22 vintage machines that I play and
> > > > > use for recording, and have been a warranty
> > > > > tech in Australia over the years for PPG, Kurzweil
> > > > > E-mu and Sequential. Hope I can help out a
> > > > > little on the forum, and learn some new things too
> > > > > :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > Steve Jones.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________________
> > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> > >; >
> > >
> >
>
2008-04-21 by Philip
Does sound like a logic problem to me...
Phil.
--- Frank Simon <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> Steve,
> I have all power supplies in order. There is power
> to all boards. When I turn it on shouldn't it boot
> up and LED's cycle on or blink or even be
> switchable? The panel is dead. Does this sound like
> processor to you?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: thirteentech
> To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:07 AM
> Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> repair (was Hi from a new member).
>
>
> Each of the 5 voices on each voice board has two
> CEM3310 envelope generators. One
> controls the volume envelope of the voice, and the
> other controls the filter cutoff of the
> voice if you bring up the filter envelope
> modulation control. If the 3310's in the filter
> control line are faulty it should only manifest
> when you turn on the filter envelope
> modulation. If this is off then the voice should
> sound if the VCF cutoff pot is set open. If
> you have bad 3310's in the VCA envelpoe position,
> the voice won't sound.
>
> I am assuming that your P10 has Rev 3.x Prophet 5
> voice boards in it, because in the
> Sequential System Technical manual which covers
> all Prophets from Rev 3.0-3.2, the
> Prophet 10 and the Poly Sequencer, they all use
> the same basic voice board. So for
> instance, in Voice 1 of the voice board, U412 is
> the amplifier envelope generator, and
> U417 is the filter envelope generator.
>
> --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank
> Simon" <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> >
> > Steve,
> > I am pleased to know there is a technique to
> troube this with the bad ICs. I hope to get
> to that point soon. If I remember there were no
> LEDs on control panel lit when turned on.
> Is there a local spot that isolates that symptom?
> I haven't removed the top boards yet.
> Hopefully I can handle that.
> >
> > I guess I am confused on VCA and VCF envelope
> positions. Can you give me a
> explanation of how to determine which state the IC
> is in.
> > Frank
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: thirteentech
> > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:04 PM
> > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 repair
> (was Hi from a new member).
> >
> >
> > Well, if you have metered all of the power
> supply rails in the machine, and are satisfied
> > that they are all in spec, then go ahead and put
> the voice boards back in. Remove the
> > known bad 3310's, and if any were in VCA
> ENVELOPE positions, replace them with
> 3310's
> > from VCF ENVELOPE positions. This will allow you
> to set up a patch with the VCF
> envelopes
> > control turned off and still have all of the
> voices audible so that you can hear is all the
> > voices are working.
> >
> > The EQ board on P10's was another source of
> problems too of you don't get any
> sound.
> >
> > As for the sequencer board, the best way to test
> functionality is to get the rest of the
> > machine basically playing and then just try out
> the sequencer and see if it loads and
> plays
> > back notes.
> >
> > Sounds like your power supply lines are the most
> important issue, so as I mentioned,
> put
> > all your attention on them being correct first.
> There are lots of CEM3310's in the
> machine,
> > so you can definately get the machine playing
> without 4 of them, just make sure that
> there
> > are good chips in the VCA envelope positions.
> >
> > Steve.
> >
> > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "fsimon100" <fsimon001@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Steve,
> > > Thanks, obviously I have a Rev 1. My schematic
> is a scanned copy and
> > > didn't see the note and still don't but I know
> you are correct. What
> > > do you think I could have damaged with the 12v
> I put in? Like I said
> > > U931 shorted and got hot. I know that may be a
> tough question
> > > without personally probing but the board is
> holding the 5v now. How
> > > could I verify functionality of PCB9.
> > >
> > > Also if I put one of the voice boards in with
> 4 CEM3310 missing can
> > > I continue troubleshooting? Is there a chance
> I could get confidence
> > > from a oscope or panel lights before I buy
> four CEMs.
> > >
> > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "thirteentech"
> > > <thirteentech@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The Prophet 10 service manual shows that
> U603 is a +5V for rev. 1
> > > machines, or +12V for Rev. 0 machines. It
> looks like that supply is
> > > for either a 5V
> > > > cassette drive or a 12V wafer drive
> depending on which version of
> > > machine you have, but the schematic also shows
> a note on the 5.6V
> > > rail of the PSU
> > > > saying: "To PCB 9, Rev 0, not used for Rev
> 1". So depending on
> > > whether you have a Rev 0 or Rev 1, there will
> be different supplies
> > > on P603 pins 2 and
> > > > 3.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "Frank Simon"
> > > <fsimon001@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Steve,
> > > > > I have a manual I downloaded from
> paintingwithsound.com. It is
> > > hard to read. I was a little disappointed when
> the power supply in
> > > my schematic
> > > > states VR603 was 12v T0-3 down to the wire
> color. Later to find
> > > out as I traced it to the PCB9 Polyphonic
> sequencer CPU board it
> > > needed to be a 5V.
> > > > It took out a Dual Flip Flop U931. After
> that I put a proper 5V in
> > > and nothing is shorted. But doesn't mean
> something else was't
> > > damaged on that
> > > > board just not shorted. That same part was
> originally bad when the
> > > original 5V Reg was in then the 12V took it
> out again. That was the
> > > first
> > > > bonehead move. And as you may read from my
> first mail the CEM3310
> > > story. So my progress is negative. If you can
> offer a systematic
> > > approach to
> > > > trouble shoot this maybe by isolating boards
> or whatever I would
> > > appreciate it. If you have a readable
> schematic you can share it
> > > would be great.
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Stephen Jones
> > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:35 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from
> a new member.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Wow, that's a lot of questions. I can help
> out, but
> > > > > not all at once, I have a workshop full of
> synths at
> > > > > the moment that I am fixing 1 by 1.
> Starting the the
> > > > > Prophet 10, do you have a service manual
> for it?
>
=== message truncated ===
__________________________________________________________
Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html2008-04-21 by thirteentech
When you turn the machine on the front panel should be dark with the exception of the [TUNE] switch. The machine boots into it's autotune mode and suppresses all of the front panel lights and controls while it does so. it should take 8-10 seconds if the machine is functional, longer if voices are way out of calibration. Does the TUNE button LED come on when you power up? --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@...> wrote: > > Steve, > I have all power supplies in order. There is power to all boards. When I turn it on shouldn't it boot up and LED's cycle on or blink or even be switchable? The panel is dead. Does this sound like processor to you? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: thirteentech > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:07 AM > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > Each of the 5 voices on each voice board has two CEM3310 envelope generators. One > controls the volume envelope of the voice, and the other controls the filter cutoff of the > voice if you bring up the filter envelope modulation control. If the 3310's in the filter > control line are faulty it should only manifest when you turn on the filter envelope > modulation. If this is off then the voice should sound if the VCF cutoff pot is set open. If > you have bad 3310's in the VCA envelpoe position, the voice won't sound. > > I am assuming that your P10 has Rev 3.x Prophet 5 voice boards in it, because in the > Sequential System Technical manual which covers all Prophets from Rev 3.0-3.2, the > Prophet 10 and the Poly Sequencer, they all use the same basic voice board. So for > instance, in Voice 1 of the voice board, U412 is the amplifier envelope generator, and > U417 is the filter envelope generator. > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > Steve, > > I am pleased to know there is a technique to troube this with the bad ICs. I hope to get > to that point soon. If I remember there were no LEDs on control panel lit when turned on. > Is there a local spot that isolates that symptom? I haven't removed the top boards yet. > Hopefully I can handle that. > > > > I guess I am confused on VCA and VCF envelope positions. Can you give me a > explanation of how to determine which state the IC is in. > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: thirteentech > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:04 PM > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > Well, if you have metered all of the power supply rails in the machine, and are satisfied > > that they are all in spec, then go ahead and put the voice boards back in. Remove the > > known bad 3310's, and if any were in VCA ENVELOPE positions, replace them with > 3310's > > from VCF ENVELOPE positions. This will allow you to set up a patch with the VCF > envelopes > > control turned off and still have all of the voices audible so that you can hear is all the
> > voices are working. > > > > The EQ board on P10's was another source of problems too of you don't get any > sound. > > > > As for the sequencer board, the best way to test functionality is to get the rest of the > > machine basically playing and then just try out the sequencer and see if it loads and > plays > > back notes. > > > > Sounds like your power supply lines are the most important issue, so as I mentioned, > put > > all your attention on them being correct first. There are lots of CEM3310's in the > machine, > > so you can definately get the machine playing without 4 of them, just make sure that > there > > are good chips in the VCA envelope positions. > > > > Steve. > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > Steve, > > > Thanks, obviously I have a Rev 1. My schematic is a scanned copy and > > > didn't see the note and still don't but I know you are correct. What > > > do you think I could have damaged with the 12v I put in? Like I said > > > U931 shorted and got hot. I know that may be a tough question > > > without personally probing but the board is holding the 5v now. How > > > could I verify functionality of PCB9. > > > > > > Also if I put one of the voice boards in with 4 CEM3310 missing can > > > I continue troubleshooting? Is there a chance I could get confidence > > > from a oscope or panel lights before I buy four CEMs. > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "thirteentech" > > > <thirteentech@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The Prophet 10 service manual shows that U603 is a +5V for rev. 1 > > > machines, or +12V for Rev. 0 machines. It looks like that supply is > > > for either a 5V > > > > cassette drive or a 12V wafer drive depending on which version of > > > machine you have, but the schematic also shows a note on the 5.6V > > > rail of the PSU > > > > saying: "To PCB 9, Rev 0, not used for Rev 1". So depending on > > > whether you have a Rev 0 or Rev 1, there will be different supplies > > > on P603 pins 2 and > > > > 3. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" > > > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Steve, > > > > > I have a manual I downloaded from paintingwithsound.com. It is > > > hard to read. I was a little disappointed when the power supply in > > > my schematic > > > > states VR603 was 12v T0-3 down to the wire color. Later to find > > > out as I traced it to the PCB9 Polyphonic sequencer CPU board it > > > needed to be a 5V. > > > > It took out a Dual Flip Flop U931. After that I put a proper 5V in > > > and nothing is shorted. But doesn't mean something else was't > > > damaged on that > > > > board just not shorted. That same part was originally bad when the > > > original 5V Reg was in then the 12V took it out again. That was the > > > first > > > > bonehead move. And as you may read from my first mail the CEM3310 > > > story. So my progress is negative. If you can offer a systematic > > > approach to > > > > trouble shoot this maybe by isolating boards or whatever I would > > > appreciate it. If you have a readable schematic you can share it > > > would be great. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Stephen Jones > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:35 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new member. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow, that's a lot of questions. I can help out, but > > > > > not all at once, I have a workshop full of synths at > > > > > the moment that I am fixing 1 by 1. Starting the the > > > > > Prophet 10, do you have a service manual for it? > > > > > > > > > > --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Steve, > > > > > > I hope everyone doesn't attack you at once. I had a > > > > > > crazy experience where I bought a Prophet 10, Korg > > > > > > Trident Mk II, and Roland JX 10 all for $30 each non > > > > > > working. I am an RF engineer and novice > > > > > > musician/Audio repairman. I know linear more than > > > > > > digital but I am going to throw out some questions > > > > > > since you offered. > > > > > > 1)My Trident I fixed due to NiCad battery meltdown > > > > > > destroying traces but I repaired the PC board(with > > > > > > wire) and all works great Strings, Brass, > > > > > > FLANGER!!!, but the Synth section makes occasional > > > > > > odd noises sounds like processing. Any trouble > > > > > > shooting advice would be appreciated. > > > > > > 2) The P10 had no sound, lit up, I found a 5V > > > > > > regulator pulled down. Found the bad IC(burned my > > > > > > finger). Then like a dumb a## I was checking -5V reg > > > > > > T0-220 on a voice board,slipped shorted output to > > > > > > input and took out 4 CEM3310. OUCH!! Still don't > > > > > > know why due to internal Zener in CEM3310. I want to > > > > > > continue toubleshooting but don't want to buy pricey > > > > > > chips until my confidence is up. Can I put the board > > > > > > in without 4 of the 10 CEM3310 and continue. I'm > > > > > > sure no sound but -5v reg will be up. Any advice > > > > > > appreciated. > > > > > > 3) Roland JX10 is total dead. I think power supply > > > > > > was good. Lower priority. This one I don't have a > > > > > > schematic. Do you have one? > > > > > > 4) Finally my Hammond H-112 had low volume and I > > > > > > found unplugging the Reverb tank it came back full > > > > > > volume. I think the reverb is ok. Do you think it > > > > > > could be a tube driver? Sounds odd that it would > > > > > > shut the amps down. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry for the overload. I'm excited about these > > > > > > synths. If I fix one I got more than my money back. > > > > > > The Korg is very close. I will cry if I can't fix > > > > > > the P10. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:54 AM > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new > > > > > > member. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just wanted to introduce myself... I am a > > > > > > synthesizer service tech from Sydney, Australia. I > > > > > > have been fixing synths since 1982, as well as a > > > > > > lot of touring as a keyboard tech. Currently I > > > > > > have around 22 vintage machines that I play and > > > > > > use for recording, and have been a warranty > > > > > > tech in Australia over the years for PPG, Kurzweil > > > > > > E-mu and Sequential. Hope I can help out a > > > > > > little on the forum, and learn some new things too > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve Jones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
2008-04-22 by Frank Simon
----- Original Message -----From: thirteentechSent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:21 AMSubject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member).When you turn the machine on the front panel should be dark with the exception of the
[TUNE] switch. The machine boots into it's autotune mode and suppresses all of the front
panel lights and controls while it does so. it should take 8-10 seconds if the machine is
functional, longer if voices are way out of calibration.
Does the TUNE button LED come on when you power up?
--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" ..> wrote:
>
> Steve,
> I have all power supplies in order. There is power to all boards. When I turn it on
shouldn't it boot up and LED's cycle on or blink or even be switchable? The panel is dead.
Does this sound like processor to you?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: thirteentech
> To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:07 AM
> Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member).
>
>
> Each of the 5 voices on each voice board has two CEM3310 envelope generators. One
> controls the volume envelope of the voice, and the other controls the filter cutoff of
the
> voice if you bring up the filter envelope modulation control. If the 3310's in the filter
> control line are faulty it should only manifest when you turn on the filter envelope
> modulation. If this is off then the voice should sound if the VCF cutoff pot is set open.
If
> you have bad 3310's in the VCA envelpoe position, the voice won't sound.
>
> I am assuming that your P10 has Rev 3.x Prophet 5 voice boards in it, because in the
> Sequential System Technical manual which covers all Prophets from Rev 3.0-3.2, the
> Prophet 10 and the Poly Sequencer, they all use the same basic voice board. So for
> instance, in Voice 1 of the voice board, U412 is the amplifier envelope generator, and
> U417 is the filter envelope generator.
>
> --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" wrote:
> >
> > Steve,
> > I am pleased to know there is a technique to troube this with the bad ICs. I hope to
get
> to that point soon. If I remember there were no LEDs on control panel lit when turned
on.
> Is there a local spot that isolates that symptom? I haven't removed the top boards yet.
> Hopefully I can handle that.
> >
> > I guess I am confused on VCA and VCF envelope positions. Can you give me a
> explanation of how to determine which state the IC is in.
> > Frank
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: thirteentech
> > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:04 PM
> > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member).
> >
> >
> > Well, if you have metered all of the power supply rails in the machine, and are
satisfied
> >; that they are all in spec, then go ahead and put the voice boards back in. Remove the
> > known bad 3310's, and if any were in VCA ENVELOPE positions, replace them with
> 3310's
> > from VCF ENVELOPE positions. This will allow you to set up a patch with the VCF
> envelopes
> > control turned off and still have all of the voices audible so that you can hear is all
the
> > voices are working.
> >
> > The EQ board on P10's was another source of problems too of you don't get any
> sound.
> >
> > As for the sequencer board, the best way to test functionality is to get the rest of the
> > machine basically playing and then just try out the sequencer and see if it loads and
> plays
> > back notes.
> >
> > Sounds like your power supply lines are the most important issue, so as I mentioned,
> put
> > all your attention on them being correct first. There are lots of CEM3310's in the
> machine,
> > so you can definately get the machine playing without 4 of them, just make sure that
> there
> > are good chips in the VCA envelope positions.
> >
> > Steve.
> >
> > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" wrote:
> > >
> > > Steve,
> > > Thanks, obviously I have a Rev 1. My schematic is a scanned copy and
> > > didn't see the note and still don't but I know you are correct. What
> > > do you think I could have damaged with the 12v I put in? Like I said
> > > U931 shorted and got hot. I know that may be a tough question
> > > without personally probing but the board is holding the 5v now. How
> > > could I verify functionality of PCB9.
> > >
> >; > Also if I put one of the voice boards in with 4 CEM3310 missing can
> > > I continue troubleshooting? Is there a chance I could get confidence
> > > from a oscope or panel lights before I buy four CEMs.
> > >
> > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "thirteentech"
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The Prophet 10 service manual shows that U603 is a +5V for rev. 1
> > > machines, or +12V for Rev. 0 machines. It looks like that supply is
> > > for either a 5V
> > > > cassette drive or a 12V wafer drive depending on which version of
> > > machine you have, but the schematic also shows a note on the 5.6V
> > > rail of the PSU
> > > > saying: "To PCB 9, Rev 0, not used for Rev 1". So depending on
> > > whether you have a Rev 0 or Rev 1, there will be different supplies
> > > on P603 pins 2 and
> > > > 3.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon"
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > Hi Steve,
> > > > > I have a manual I downloaded from paintingwithsound.com. It is
> > > hard to read. I was a little disappointed when the power supply in
> > > my schematic
> > > > states VR603 was 12v T0-3 down to the wire color. Later to find
> > > out as I traced it to the PCB9 Polyphonic sequencer CPU board it
> > > needed to be a 5V.
> > > > It took out a Dual Flip Flop U931. After that I put a proper 5V in
> > > and nothing is shorted. But doesn't mean something else was't
> > > damaged on that
> > > > board just not shorted. That same part was originally bad when the
> > > original 5V Reg was in then the 12V took it out again. That was the
> > > first
> > > > bonehead move. And as you may read from my first mail the CEM3310
> > > story. So my progress is negative. If you can offer a systematic
> > > approach to
> > > > trouble shoot this maybe by isolating boards or whatever I would
> > > appreciate it. If you have a readable schematic you can share it
> > > would be great.
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Stephen Jones
> >; > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:35 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new member.
>; > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Wow, that's a lot of questions. I can help out, but
> > > > > not all at once, I have a workshop full of synths at
> > > > > the moment that I am fixing 1 by 1. Starting the the
> > > > > Prophet 10, do you have a service manual for it?
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Frank Simon wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Steve,
> > > > > > I hope everyone doesn't attack you at once. I had a
> > > > > > crazy experience where I bought a Prophet 10, Korg
> > > > > > Trident Mk II, and Roland JX 10 all for $30 each non
> > > > > > working. I am an RF engineer and novice
> > > > > > musician/Audio repairman. I know linear more than
> > > > > > digital but I am going to throw out some questions
> > > > > > since you offered.
> > > > > > 1)My Trident I fixed due to NiCad battery meltdown
> > > > > > destroying traces but I repaired the PC board(with
> > > > > > wire) and all works great Strings, Brass,
> > > > > > FLANGER!!!, but the Synth section makes occasional
> > > > >; > odd noises sounds like processing. Any trouble
> > > > > > shooting advice would be appreciated.
> > > > > > 2) The P10 had no sound, lit up, I found a 5V
> > > > > > regulator pulled down. Found the bad IC(burned my
> > > > > > finger). Then like a dumb a## I was checking -5V reg
> > > > > > T0-220 on a voice board,slipped shorted output to
> > > > > > input and took out 4 CEM3310. OUCH!! Still don't
> > > > > > know why due to internal Zener in CEM3310. I want to
> > > > > > continue toubleshooting but don't want to buy pricey
> > > > > > chips until my confidence is up. Can I put the board
> > > > > > in without 4 of the 10 CEM3310 and continue. I'm
> > > > > > sure no sound but -5v reg will be up. Any advice
> > > > > > appreciated.
> > > > > > 3) Roland JX10 is total dead. I think power supply
> > > > > > was good. Lower priority. This one I don't have a
> > > > > > schematic. Do you have one?
> > > > > > 4) Finally my Hammond H-112 had low volume and I
> > > > > > found unplugging the Reverb tank it came back full
> > > > > > volume. I think the reverb is ok. Do you think it
> > > > > > could be a tube driver? Sounds odd that it would
> > > > > > shut the amps down.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sorry for the overload. I'm excited about these
> > > > > > synths. If I fix one I got more than my money back.
> > > > > > The Korg is very close. I will cry if I can't fix
> > > > > > the P10.
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Frank
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: thirteentech
> > > > > >; To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:54 AM
> > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new
> > > > > > member.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just wanted to introduce myself... I am a
> > > > > > synthesizer service tech from Sydney, Australia. I
> > > > > > have been fixing synths since 1982, as well as a
> > > > > > lot of touring as a keyboard tech. Currently I
> > > > > > have around 22 vintage machines that I play and
> > > > > > use for recording, and have been a warranty
> > > > > > tech in Australia over the years for PPG, Kurzweil
> > > > > > E-mu and Sequential. Hope I can help out a
> > > > > > little on the forum, and learn some new things too
> > > > > > :-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Steve Jones.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________________________________
> > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
2008-04-28 by Frank Simon
----- Original Message -----From: thirteentechSent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:21 AMSubject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member).When you turn the machine on the front panel should be dark with the exception of the
[TUNE] switch. The machine boots into it's autotune mode and suppresses all of the front
panel lights and controls while it does so. it should take 8-10 seconds if the machine is
functional, longer if voices are way out of calibration.
Does the TUNE button LED come on when you power up?
--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" ..> wrote:
>
> Steve,
> I have all power supplies in order. There is power to all boards. When I turn it on
shouldn't it boot up and LED's cycle on or blink or even be switchable? The panel is dead.
Does this sound like processor to you?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: thirteentech
> To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:07 AM
> Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member).
>
>
> Each of the 5 voices on each voice board has two CEM3310 envelope generators. One
> controls the volume envelope of the voice, and the other controls the filter cutoff of
the
> voice if you bring up the filter envelope modulation control. If the 3310's in the filter
> control line are faulty it should only manifest when you turn on the filter envelope
> modulation. If this is off then the voice should sound if the VCF cutoff pot is set open.
If
> you have bad 3310's in the VCA envelpoe position, the voice won't sound.
>;
> I am assuming that your P10 has Rev 3.x Prophet 5 voice boards in it, because in the
> Sequential System Technical manual which covers all Prophets from Rev 3.0-3.2, the
> Prophet 10 and the Poly Sequencer, they all use the same basic voice board. So for
> instance, in Voice 1 of the voice board, U412 is the amplifier envelope generator, and
> U417 is the filter envelope generator.
>
> --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" wrote:
> >
> > Steve,
> > I am pleased to know there is a technique to troube this with the bad ICs. I hope to
get
> to that point soon. If I remember there were no LEDs on control panel lit when turned
on.
> Is there a local spot that isolates that symptom? I haven't removed the top boards yet.
> Hopefully I can handle that.
> >
> > I guess I am confused on VCA and VCF envelope positions. Can you give me a
> explanation of how to determine which state the IC is in.
> > Frank
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >; ----- Original Message -----
> > From: thirteentech
> > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:04 PM
> > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member).
> >
> >;
> > Well, if you have metered all of the power supply rails in the machine, and are
satisfied
> > that they are all in spec, then go ahead and put the voice boards back in. Remove the
> > known bad 3310's, and if any were in VCA ENVELOPE positions, replace them with
> 3310's
> > from VCF ENVELOPE positions. This will allow you to set up a patch with the VCF
> envelopes
> > control turned off and still have all of the voices audible so that you can hear is all
the
> > voices are working.
> >
> > The EQ board on P10's was another source of problems too of you don't get any
> sound.
> >
> > As for the sequencer board, the best way to test functionality is to get the rest of the
> > machine basically playing and then just try out the sequencer and see if it loads and
> plays
> > back notes.
> >
> > Sounds like your power supply lines are the most important issue, so as I mentioned,
> put
> > all your attention on them being correct first. There are lots of CEM3310's in the
> machine,
> > so you can definately get the machine playing without 4 of them, just make sure that
> there
> > are good chips in the VCA envelope positions.
> >
> > Steve.
> >
> > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" wrote:
> > >
> > > Steve,
> > > Thanks, obviously I have a Rev 1. My schematic is a scanned copy and
> > > didn't see the note and still don't but I know you are correct. What
> > > do you think I could have damaged with the 12v I put in? Like I said
> > > U931 shorted and got hot. I know that may be a tough question
> > > without personally probing but the board is holding the 5v now. How
> > > could I verify functionality of PCB9.
> > >
> > > Also if I put one of the voice boards in with 4 CEM3310 missing can
> > > I continue troubleshooting? Is there a chance I could get confidence
> > > from a oscope or panel lights before I buy four CEMs.
> > >
> > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "thirteentech"
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The Prophet 10 service manual shows that U603 is a +5V for rev. 1
> > > machines, or +12V for Rev. 0 machines. It looks like that supply is
> > >; for either a 5V
> > > > cassette drive or a 12V wafer drive depending on which version of
> > > machine you have, but the schematic also shows a note on the 5.6V
> > > rail of the PSU
> > > > saying: "To PCB 9, Rev 0, not used for Rev 1". So depending on
> > > whether you have a Rev 0 or Rev 1, there will be different supplies
> > > on P603 pins 2 and
> > > > 3.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon"
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Steve,
> > > > > I have a manual I downloaded from paintingwithsound.com. It is
> > > hard to read. I was a little disappointed when the power supply in
> > > my schematic
> > > > states VR603 was 12v T0-3 down to the wire color. Later to find
> > > out as I traced it to the PCB9 Polyphonic sequencer CPU board it
> > > needed to be a 5V.
> > > > It took out a Dual Flip Flop U931. After that I put a proper 5V in
> > > and nothing is shorted. But doesn't mean something else was't
> > > damaged on that
> > > > board just not shorted. That same part was originally bad when the
> > >; original 5V Reg was in then the 12V took it out again. That was the
> > > first
> > > > bonehead move. And as you may read from my first mail the CEM3310
> > > story. So my progress is negative. If you can offer a systematic
> > > approach to
> > > > trouble shoot this maybe by isolating boards or whatever I would
> > > appreciate it. If you have a readable schematic you can share it
> > > would be great.
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Stephen Jones
> > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:35 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new member.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Wow, that's a lot of questions. I can help out, but
> > > > > not all at once, I have a workshop full of synths at
> > > > > the moment that I am fixing 1 by 1. Starting the the
> > > > > Prophet 10, do you have a service manual for it?
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Frank Simon wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Steve,
> > > > > > I hope everyone doesn't attack you at once. I had a
> > > > > > crazy experience where I bought a Prophet 10, Korg
> > > > > > Trident Mk II, and Roland JX 10 all for $30 each non
> > > > > > working. I am an RF engineer and novice
> > > >; > > musician/Audio repairman. I know linear more than
> > > > > > digital but I am going to throw out some questions
> > > > > > since you offered.
> > > > > > 1)My Trident I fixed due to NiCad battery meltdown
> > > > > > destroying traces but I repaired the PC board(with
> > > > > > wire) and all works great Strings, Brass,
> > > > > > FLANGER!!!, but the Synth section makes occasional
> > > > > > odd noises sounds like processing. Any trouble
> > > > > > shooting advice would be appreciated.
> > > > > > 2) The P10 had no sound, lit up, I found a 5V
> > > > > > regulator pulled down. Found the bad IC(burned my
> > > > > > finger). Then like a dumb a## I was checking -5V reg
> >; > > > > T0-220 on a voice board,slipped shorted output to
> > > > > > input and took out 4 CEM3310. OUCH!! Still don't
> > > > > > know why due to internal Zener in CEM3310. I want to
> > > > > > continue toubleshooting but don't want to buy pricey
> > > > > > chips until my confidence is up. Can I put the board
> > > > > > in without 4 of the 10 CEM3310 and continue. I'm
> > > > > > sure no sound but -5v reg will be up. Any advice
> > > > > > appreciated.
> > > > > > 3) Roland JX10 is total dead. I think power supply
> > > > > > was good. Lower priority. This one I don't have a
>; > > > > > schematic. Do you have one?
> > > > > > 4) Finally my Hammond H-112 had low volume and I
> > > > > > found unplugging the Reverb tank it came back full
> > > > > > volume. I think the reverb is ok. Do you think it
> > > > > > could be a tube driver? Sounds odd that it would
> > > > > > shut the amps down.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >; Sorry for the overload. I'm excited about these
> > > > > > synths. If I fix one I got more than my money back.
> > > > > > The Korg is very close. I will cry if I can't fix
> > > > > > the P10.
> > > > > >; Thanks,
> > > > > > Frank
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: thirteentech
> > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:54 AM
> > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Hi from a new
> > > > > > member.
>; > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just wanted to introduce myself... I am a
> > > > > > synthesizer service tech from Sydney, Australia. I
> > > > > > have been fixing synths since 1982, as well as a
> > > > > > lot of touring as a keyboard tech. Currently I
> > > > > > have around 22 vintage machines that I play and
> > > > > > use for recording, and have been a warranty
> > > > > > tech in Australia over the years for PPG, Kurzweil
> > > > > > E-mu and Sequential. Hope I can help out a
> > > > > > little on the forum, and learn some new things too
> > > > > > :-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Steve Jones.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________________________________
> > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
2008-04-28 by Stephen Jones
Which Rev. Processor board do you have? All the Rev.
3.1 and 3.2 Prophet 5's have a built in memory test,
and latest software versions also have a basic CPU
test. Which software version do you have?
--- Frank Simon <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> Steve,
> The TUNE LED does not come on. Since I am four
> CEM3310s short, should certain slots be populated
> just to get boot up? All the supplies are up. I am
> suspicious of PCB9 due to the 12v applied and you
> mentioned EQ board. There are a couple IC's that are
> warm on the EQ board but not so hot I can't keep my
> finger on it. Can you offer a couple key
> troubleshooting spots for measurements to help me
> isolate this? I'm assuming I have no way to bless
> the Processor. All I have is an Oscope, function
> generator, and multimeter.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: thirteentech
> To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:21 AM
> Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> repair (was Hi from a new member).
>
>
> When you turn the machine on the front panel
> should be dark with the exception of the
> [TUNE] switch. The machine boots into it's
> autotune mode and suppresses all of the front
> panel lights and controls while it does so. it
> should take 8-10 seconds if the machine is
> functional, longer if voices are way out of
> calibration.
>
> Does the TUNE button LED come on when you power
> up?
>
> --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank
> Simon" <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> >
> > Steve,
> > I have all power supplies in order. There is
> power to all boards. When I turn it on
> shouldn't it boot up and LED's cycle on or blink
> or even be switchable? The panel is dead.
> Does this sound like processor to you?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: thirteentech
> > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:07 AM
> > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> repair (was Hi from a new member).
> >
> >
> > Each of the 5 voices on each voice board has two
> CEM3310 envelope generators. One
> > controls the volume envelope of the voice, and
> the other controls the filter cutoff of
> the
> > voice if you bring up the filter envelope
> modulation control. If the 3310's in the filter
> > control line are faulty it should only manifest
> when you turn on the filter envelope
> > modulation. If this is off then the voice should
> sound if the VCF cutoff pot is set open.
> If
> > you have bad 3310's in the VCA envelpoe
> position, the voice won't sound.
> >
> > I am assuming that your P10 has Rev 3.x Prophet
> 5 voice boards in it, because in the
> > Sequential System Technical manual which covers
> all Prophets from Rev 3.0-3.2, the
> > Prophet 10 and the Poly Sequencer, they all use
> the same basic voice board. So for
> > instance, in Voice 1 of the voice board, U412 is
> the amplifier envelope generator, and
> > U417 is the filter envelope generator.
> >
> > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Steve,
> > > I am pleased to know there is a technique to
> troube this with the bad ICs. I hope to
> get
> > to that point soon. If I remember there were no
> LEDs on control panel lit when turned
> on.
> > Is there a local spot that isolates that
> symptom? I haven't removed the top boards yet.
> > Hopefully I can handle that.
> > >
> > > I guess I am confused on VCA and VCF envelope
> positions. Can you give me a
> > explanation of how to determine which state the
> IC is in.
> > > Frank
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: thirteentech
> > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:04 PM
> > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10
> repair (was Hi from a new member).
> > >
> > >
> > > Well, if you have metered all of the power
> supply rails in the machine, and are
> satisfied
> > > that they are all in spec, then go ahead and
> put the voice boards back in. Remove the
> > > known bad 3310's, and if any were in VCA
> ENVELOPE positions, replace them with
> > 3310's
> > > from VCF ENVELOPE positions. This will allow
> you to set up a patch with the VCF
> > envelopes
> > > control turned off and still have all of the
> voices audible so that you can hear is all
> the
> > > voices are working.
> > >
> > > The EQ board on P10's was another source of
> problems too of you don't get any
> > sound.
> > >
> > > As for the sequencer board, the best way to
> test functionality is to get the rest of the
> > > machine basically playing and then just try
> out the sequencer and see if it loads and
> > plays
> > > back notes.
> > >
> > > Sounds like your power supply lines are the
> most important issue, so as I mentioned,
> > put
> > > all your attention on them being correct
> first. There are lots of CEM3310's in the
> > machine,
> > > so you can definately get the machine playing
> without 4 of them, just make sure that
> > there
> > > are good chips in the VCA envelope positions.
> > >
> > > Steve.
> > >
> > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "fsimon100" <fsimon001@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Steve,
> > > > Thanks, obviously I have a Rev 1. My
> schematic is a scanned copy and
> > > > didn't see the note and still don't but I
> know you are correct. What
> > > > do you think I could have damaged with the
> 12v I put in? Like I said
> > > > U931 shorted and got hot. I know that may be
> a tough question
> > > > without personally probing but the board is
> holding the 5v now. How
> > > > could I verify functionality of PCB9.
> > > >
> > > > Also if I put one of the voice boards in
> with 4 CEM3310 missing can
> > > > I continue troubleshooting? Is there a
> chance I could get confidence
> > > > from a oscope or panel lights before I buy
> four CEMs.
> > > >
> > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "thirteentech"
> > > > <thirteentech@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The Prophet 10 service manual shows that
> U603 is a +5V for rev. 1
> > > > machines, or +12V for Rev. 0 machines. It
> looks like that supply is
> > > > for either a 5V
> > > > > cassette drive or a 12V wafer drive
> depending on which version of
> > > > machine you have, but the schematic also
> shows a note on the 5.6V
> > > > rail of the PSU
> > > > > saying: "To PCB 9, Rev 0, not used for Rev
> 1". So depending on
> > > > whether you have a Rev 0 or Rev 1, there
> will be different supplies
> > > > on P603 pins 2 and
> > > > > 3.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "Frank Simon"
> > > > <fsimon001@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Steve,
> > > > > > I have a manual I downloaded from
> paintingwithsound.com. It is
> > > > hard to read. I was a little disappointed
> when
=== message truncated ===
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ2008-04-28 by Philip
Surely the machine should still boot up as those chips
are nothing to do with the CPU circuit.. Warmth of
IC's give no clue to failure. Some ram chips get
almost too hot to touch yet they are fine. Don't use
that as a single measurement of failure unless they
are white hot or something silly.
You can test the processor with your scope or a logic
probe.
Phil.
--- Frank Simon <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> Steve,
> The TUNE LED does not come on. Since I am four
> CEM3310s short, should certain slots be populated
> just to get boot up? All the supplies are up. I am
> suspicious of PCB9 due to the 12v applied and you
> mentioned EQ board. There are a couple IC's that are
> warm on the EQ board but not so hot I can't keep my
> finger on it. Can you offer a couple key
> troubleshooting spots for measurements to help me
> isolate this? I'm assuming I have no way to bless
> the Processor. All I have is an Oscope, function
> generator, and multimeter.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: thirteentech
> To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:21 AM
> Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> repair (was Hi from a new member).
>
>
> When you turn the machine on the front panel
> should be dark with the exception of the
> [TUNE] switch. The machine boots into it's
> autotune mode and suppresses all of the front
> panel lights and controls while it does so. it
> should take 8-10 seconds if the machine is
> functional, longer if voices are way out of
> calibration.
>
> Does the TUNE button LED come on when you power
> up?
>
> --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank
> Simon" <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> >
> > Steve,
> > I have all power supplies in order. There is
> power to all boards. When I turn it on
> shouldn't it boot up and LED's cycle on or blink
> or even be switchable? The panel is dead.
> Does this sound like processor to you?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: thirteentech
> > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:07 AM
> > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> repair (was Hi from a new member).
> >
> >
> > Each of the 5 voices on each voice board has two
> CEM3310 envelope generators. One
> > controls the volume envelope of the voice, and
> the other controls the filter cutoff of
> the
> > voice if you bring up the filter envelope
> modulation control. If the 3310's in the filter
> > control line are faulty it should only manifest
> when you turn on the filter envelope
> > modulation. If this is off then the voice should
> sound if the VCF cutoff pot is set open.
> If
> > you have bad 3310's in the VCA envelpoe
> position, the voice won't sound.
> >
> > I am assuming that your P10 has Rev 3.x Prophet
> 5 voice boards in it, because in the
> > Sequential System Technical manual which covers
> all Prophets from Rev 3.0-3.2, the
> > Prophet 10 and the Poly Sequencer, they all use
> the same basic voice board. So for
> > instance, in Voice 1 of the voice board, U412 is
> the amplifier envelope generator, and
> > U417 is the filter envelope generator.
> >
> > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Steve,
> > > I am pleased to know there is a technique to
> troube this with the bad ICs. I hope to
> get
> > to that point soon. If I remember there were no
> LEDs on control panel lit when turned
> on.
> > Is there a local spot that isolates that
> symptom? I haven't removed the top boards yet.
> > Hopefully I can handle that.
> > >
> > > I guess I am confused on VCA and VCF envelope
> positions. Can you give me a
> > explanation of how to determine which state the
> IC is in.
> > > Frank
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: thirteentech
> > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:04 PM
> > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10
> repair (was Hi from a new member).
> > >
> > >
> > > Well, if you have metered all of the power
> supply rails in the machine, and are
> satisfied
> > > that they are all in spec, then go ahead and
> put the voice boards back in. Remove the
> > > known bad 3310's, and if any were in VCA
> ENVELOPE positions, replace them with
> > 3310's
> > > from VCF ENVELOPE positions. This will allow
> you to set up a patch with the VCF
> > envelopes
> > > control turned off and still have all of the
> voices audible so that you can hear is all
> the
> > > voices are working.
> > >
> > > The EQ board on P10's was another source of
> problems too of you don't get any
> > sound.
> > >
> > > As for the sequencer board, the best way to
> test functionality is to get the rest of the
> > > machine basically playing and then just try
> out the sequencer and see if it loads and
> > plays
> > > back notes.
> > >
> > > Sounds like your power supply lines are the
> most important issue, so as I mentioned,
> > put
> > > all your attention on them being correct
> first. There are lots of CEM3310's in the
> > machine,
> > > so you can definately get the machine playing
> without 4 of them, just make sure that
> > there
> > > are good chips in the VCA envelope positions.
> > >
> > > Steve.
> > >
> > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "fsimon100" <fsimon001@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Steve,
> > > > Thanks, obviously I have a Rev 1. My
> schematic is a scanned copy and
> > > > didn't see the note and still don't but I
> know you are correct. What
> > > > do you think I could have damaged with the
> 12v I put in? Like I said
> > > > U931 shorted and got hot. I know that may be
> a tough question
> > > > without personally probing but the board is
> holding the 5v now. How
> > > > could I verify functionality of PCB9.
> > > >
> > > > Also if I put one of the voice boards in
> with 4 CEM3310 missing can
> > > > I continue troubleshooting? Is there a
> chance I could get confidence
> > > > from a oscope or panel lights before I buy
> four CEMs.
> > > >
> > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "thirteentech"
> > > > <thirteentech@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The Prophet 10 service manual shows that
> U603 is a +5V for rev. 1
> > > > machines, or +12V for Rev. 0 machines. It
> looks like that supply is
> > > > for either a 5V
> > > > > cassette drive or a 12V wafer drive
> depending on which version of
> > > > machine you have, but the schematic also
> shows a note on the 5.6V
> > > > rail of the PSU
> > > > > saying: "To PCB 9, Rev 0, not used for Rev
> 1". So depending on
> > > > whether you have a Rev 0 or Rev 1, there
> will be different supplies
> > > > on P603 pins 2 and
> > > > > 3.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "Frank Simon"
> > > > <fsimon001@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Steve,
> > > > > > I have a manual I downloaded from
> paintingwithsound.com. It is
> > > > hard to read. I was a little disappointed
> when
=== message truncated ===
__________________________________________________________
Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html2008-04-28 by Frank Simon
----- Original Message -----From: Stephen JonesSent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:14 AMSubject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member).Which Rev. Processor board do you have? All the Rev.
3.1 and 3.2 Prophet 5's have a built in memory test,
and latest software versions also have a basic CPU
test. Which software version do you have?
--- Frank Simon <fsimon001@neo.rr.com> wrote:
> Steve,
> The TUNE LED does not come on. Since I am four
> CEM3310s short, should certain slots be populated
> just to get boot up? All the supplies are up. I am
> suspicious of PCB9 due to the 12v applied and you
> mentioned EQ board. There are a couple IC's that are
> warm on the EQ board but not so hot I can't keep my
> finger on it. Can you offer a couple key
> troubleshooting spots for measurements to help me
> isolate this? I'm assuming I have no way to bless
>; the Processor. All I have is an Oscope, function
> generator, and multimeter.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: thirteentech
> To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:21 AM
> Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> repair (was Hi from a new member).
>
>
> When you turn the machine on the front panel
> should be dark with the exception of the
> [TUNE] switch. The machine boots into it's
> autotune mode and suppresses all of the front
> panel lights and controls while it does so. it
>; should take 8-10 seconds if the machine is
> functional, longer if voices are way out of
> calibration.
>
> Does the TUNE button LED come on when you power
> up?
>
> --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank
> Simon" ..> wrote:
> >
> > Steve,
> > I have all power supplies in order. There is
> power to all boards. When I turn it on
> shouldn't it boot up and LED's cycle on or blink
> or even be switchable? The panel is dead.
> Does this sound like processor to you?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: thirteentech
> > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:07 AM
> > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> repair (was Hi from a new member).
> >
> >
>; > Each of the 5 voices on each voice board has two
> CEM3310 envelope generators. One
> > controls the volume envelope of the voice, and
> the other controls the filter cutoff of
> the
> > voice if you bring up the filter envelope
> modulation control. If the 3310's in the filter
> > control line are faulty it should only manifest
> when you turn on the filter envelope
> > modulation. If this is off then the voice should
> sound if the VCF cutoff pot is set open.
> If
> > you have bad 3310's in the VCA envelpoe
> position, the voice won't sound.
> >
> > I am assuming that your P10 has Rev 3.x Prophet
> 5 voice boards in it, because in the
> > Sequential System Technical manual which covers
> all Prophets from Rev 3.0-3.2, the
> > Prophet 10 and the Poly Sequencer, they all use
> the same basic voice board. So for
> > instance, in Voice 1 of the voice board, U412 is
> the amplifier envelope generator, and
> > U417 is the filter envelope generator.
>; >
> > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "Frank Simon" wrote:
> > >
> > > Steve,
> > > I am pleased to know there is a technique to
> troube this with the bad ICs. I hope to
> get
> > to that point soon. If I remember there were no
> LEDs on control panel lit when turned
> on.
> > Is there a local spot that isolates that
> symptom? I haven't removed the top boards yet.
> > Hopefully I can handle that.
> > >
> > > I guess I am confused on VCA and VCF envelope
> positions. Can you give me a
> > explanation of how to determine which state the
> IC is in.
> > > Frank
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: thirteentech
> > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:04 PM
> > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10
> repair (was Hi from a new member).
> > >
> > >
> > > Well, if you have metered all of the power
> supply rails in the machine, and are
> satisfied
> > > that they are all in spec, then go ahead and
> put the voice boards back in. Remove the
> > > known bad 3310's, and if any were in VCA
> ENVELOPE positions, replace them with
> > 3310's
> > > from VCF ENVELOPE positions. This will allow
> you to set up a patch with the VCF
> > envelopes
> > > control turned off and still have all of the
> voices audible so that you can hear is all
> the
> > > voices are working.
> > >
> > > The EQ board on P10's was another source of
> problems too of you don't get any
> > sound.
> > >
> > > As for the sequencer board, the best way to
> test functionality is to get the rest of the
> > > machine basically playing and then just try
> out the sequencer and see if it loads and
> > plays
> > > back notes.
> > >
> > > Sounds like your power supply lines are the
> most important issue, so as I mentioned,
> > put
> > > all your attention on them being correct
> first. There are lots of CEM3310's in the
> > machine,
> > > so you can definately get the machine playing
> without 4 of them, just make sure that
> > there
> > > are good chips in the VCA envelope positions.
> > >
> > > Steve.
> > >
> > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "fsimon100" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Steve,
> > > > Thanks, obviously I have a Rev 1. My
> schematic is a scanned copy and
> > > > didn't see the note and still don't but I
> know you are correct. What
> > > > do you think I could have damaged with the
> 12v I put in? Like I said
> > > > U931 shorted and got hot. I know that may be
> a tough question
> > > > without personally probing but the board is
> holding the 5v now. How
> > > > could I verify functionality of PCB9.
> > > >
> > > > Also if I put one of the voice boards in
> with 4 CEM3310 missing can
> > > > I continue troubleshooting? Is there a
> chance I could get confidence
> > > > from a oscope or panel lights before I buy
> four CEMs.
> > > >
> > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "thirteentech"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The Prophet 10 service manual shows that
> U603 is a +5V for rev. 1
> > > > machines, or +12V for Rev. 0 machines. It
> looks like that supply is
> > > > for either a 5V
> > > > > cassette drive or a 12V wafer drive
> depending on which version of
> > > > machine you have, but the schematic also
> shows a note on the 5.6V
> > > > rail of the PSU
> > > > > saying: "To PCB 9, Rev 0, not used for Rev
> 1". So depending on
> > > > whether you have a Rev 0 or Rev 1, there
> will be different supplies
> > > > on P603 pins 2 and
> > > > > 3.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >; --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "Frank Simon"
>; > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Steve,
> > > > > > I have a manual I downloaded from
> paintingwithsound.com. It is
> > > > hard to read. I was a little disappointed
> when
=== message truncated ===
__________________________________________________________
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2008-04-28 by thirteentech
What is written on the stickers on the EPROMS? --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@...> wrote: > > I don't know. How do I find this out. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Stephen Jones > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:14 AM > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > Which Rev. Processor board do you have? All the Rev. > 3.1 and 3.2 Prophet 5's have a built in memory test, > and latest software versions also have a basic CPU > test. Which software version do you have? > > --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@...> wrote: > > > Steve, > > The TUNE LED does not come on. Since I am four > > CEM3310s short, should certain slots be populated > > just to get boot up? All the supplies are up. I am > > suspicious of PCB9 due to the 12v applied and you > > mentioned EQ board. There are a couple IC's that are > > warm on the EQ board but not so hot I can't keep my > > finger on it. Can you offer a couple key > > troubleshooting spots for measurements to help me > > isolate this? I'm assuming I have no way to bless > > the Processor. All I have is an Oscope, function > > generator, and multimeter. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: thirteentech > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:21 AM > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > When you turn the machine on the front panel > > should be dark with the exception of the > > [TUNE] switch. The machine boots into it's > > autotune mode and suppresses all of the front > > panel lights and controls while it does so. it > > should take 8-10 seconds if the machine is > > functional, longer if voices are way out of > > calibration. > > > > Does the TUNE button LED come on when you power > > up? > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank > > Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > Steve, > > > I have all power supplies in order. There is > > power to all boards. When I turn it on > > shouldn't it boot up and LED's cycle on or blink > > or even be switchable? The panel is dead. > > Does this sound like processor to you? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: thirteentech > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@...m > > > Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:07 AM > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > Each of the 5 voices on each voice board has two > > CEM3310 envelope generators. One > > > controls the volume envelope of the voice, and > > the other controls the filter cutoff of > > the > > > voice if you bring up the filter envelope > > modulation control. If the 3310's in the filter > > > control line are faulty it should only manifest > > when you turn on the filter envelope > > > modulation. If this is off then the voice should > > sound if the VCF cutoff pot is set open. > > If > > > you have bad 3310's in the VCA envelpoe > > position, the voice won't sound. > > > > > > I am assuming that your P10 has Rev 3.x Prophet > > 5 voice boards in it, because in the > > > Sequential System Technical manual which covers > > all Prophets from Rev 3.0-3.2, the > > > Prophet 10 and the Poly Sequencer, they all use > > the same basic voice board. So for > > > instance, in Voice 1 of the voice board, U412 is > > the amplifier envelope generator, and > > > U417 is the filter envelope generator. > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > I am pleased to know there is a technique to > > troube this with the bad ICs. I hope to > > get > > > to that point soon. If I remember there were no > > LEDs on control panel lit when turned > > on. > > > Is there a local spot that isolates that > > symptom? I haven't removed the top boards yet. > > > Hopefully I can handle that. > > > > > > > > I guess I am confused on VCA and VCF envelope > > positions. Can you give me a > > > explanation of how to determine which state the > > IC is in. > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:04 PM > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, if you have metered all of the power > > supply rails in the machine, and are > > satisfied > > > > that they are all in spec, then go ahead and > > put the voice boards back in. Remove the > > > > known bad 3310's, and if any were in VCA > > ENVELOPE positions, replace them with > > > 3310's > > > > from VCF ENVELOPE positions. This will allow > > you to set up a patch with the VCF > > > envelopes > > > > control turned off and still have all of the > > voices audible so that you can hear is all > > the > > > > voices are working. > > > > > > > > The EQ board on P10's was another source of > > problems too of you don't get any > > > sound. > > > > > > > > As for the sequencer board, the best way to > > test functionality is to get the rest of the > > > > machine basically playing and then just try > > out the sequencer and see if it loads and > > > plays > > > > back notes. > > > > > > > > Sounds like your power supply lines are the > > most important issue, so as I mentioned, > > > put > > > > all your attention on them being correct > > first. There are lots of CEM3310's in the > > > machine, > > > > so you can definately get the machine playing > > without 4 of them, just make sure that > > > there > > > > are good chips in the VCA envelope positions. > > > > > > > > Steve. > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > "fsimon100" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > Thanks, obviously I have a Rev 1. My > > schematic is a scanned copy and > > > > > didn't see the note and still don't but I > > know you are correct. What > > > > > do you think I could have damaged with the > > 12v I put in? Like I said > > > > > U931 shorted and got hot. I know that may be > > a tough question > > > > > without personally probing but the board is > > holding the 5v now. How > > > > > could I verify functionality of PCB9. > > > > > > > > > > Also if I put one of the voice boards in > > with 4 CEM3310 missing can > > > > > I continue troubleshooting? Is there a > > chance I could get confidence > > > > > from a oscope or panel lights before I buy > > four CEMs. > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > "thirteentech" > > > > > <thirteentech@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The Prophet 10 service manual shows that > > U603 is a +5V for rev. 1 > > > > > machines, or +12V for Rev. 0 machines. It > > looks like that supply is > > > > > for either a 5V > > > > > > cassette drive or a 12V wafer drive > > depending on which version of > > > > > machine you have, but the schematic also > > shows a note on the 5.6V > > > > > rail of the PSU > > > > > > saying: "To PCB 9, Rev 0, not used for Rev > > 1". So depending on > > > > > whether you have a Rev 0 or Rev 1, there > > will be different supplies > > > > > on P603 pins 2 and > > > > > > 3. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > "Frank Simon" > > > > > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Steve, > > > > > > > I have a manual I downloaded from > > paintingwithsound.com. It is > > > > > hard to read. I was a little disappointed > > when > === message truncated === > > __________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >
2008-04-28 by fsimon100
That I can find out when I get home tonight. I have seen the sticker on the EEPROMs. This machine has two Processors correct? One on PCB9 and another up by the DAC. Is there EEPROM in both locations? I'll be able to tell. Thanks --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "thirteentech" <thirteentech@...> wrote: > > What is written on the stickers on the EPROMS? > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > I don't know. How do I find this out. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Stephen Jones > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:14 AM > > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member).
> > > > > > Which Rev. Processor board do you have? All the Rev. > > 3.1 and 3.2 Prophet 5's have a built in memory test, > > and latest software versions also have a basic CPU > > test. Which software version do you have? > > > > --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > Steve, > > > The TUNE LED does not come on. Since I am four > > > CEM3310s short, should certain slots be populated > > > just to get boot up? All the supplies are up. I am > > > suspicious of PCB9 due to the 12v applied and you > > > mentioned EQ board. There are a couple IC's that are > > > warm on the EQ board but not so hot I can't keep my > > > finger on it. Can you offer a couple key > > > troubleshooting spots for measurements to help me > > > isolate this? I'm assuming I have no way to bless > > > the Processor. All I have is an Oscope, function > > > generator, and multimeter. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: thirteentech > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:21 AM > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > When you turn the machine on the front panel > > > should be dark with the exception of the > > > [TUNE] switch. The machine boots into it's > > > autotune mode and suppresses all of the front > > > panel lights and controls while it does so. it > > > should take 8-10 seconds if the machine is > > > functional, longer if voices are way out of > > > calibration. > > > > > > Does the TUNE button LED come on when you power > > > up? > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank > > > Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > I have all power supplies in order. There is > > > power to all boards. When I turn it on > > > shouldn't it boot up and LED's cycle on or blink > > > or even be switchable? The panel is dead. > > > Does this sound like processor to you? > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:07 AM > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > Each of the 5 voices on each voice board has two > > > CEM3310 envelope generators. One > > > > controls the volume envelope of the voice, and > > > the other controls the filter cutoff of > > > the > > > > voice if you bring up the filter envelope > > > modulation control. If the 3310's in the filter > > > > control line are faulty it should only manifest > > > when you turn on the filter envelope > > > > modulation. If this is off then the voice should > > > sound if the VCF cutoff pot is set open. > > > If > > > > you have bad 3310's in the VCA envelpoe > > > position, the voice won't sound. > > > > > > > > I am assuming that your P10 has Rev 3.x Prophet > > > 5 voice boards in it, because in the > > > > Sequential System Technical manual which covers > > > all Prophets from Rev 3.0-3.2, the > > > > Prophet 10 and the Poly Sequencer, they all use > > > the same basic voice board. So for > > > > instance, in Voice 1 of the voice board, U412 is > > > the amplifier envelope generator, and > > > > U417 is the filter envelope generator. > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@...m, > > > "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > I am pleased to know there is a technique to > > > troube this with the bad ICs. I hope to > > > get > > > > to that point soon. If I remember there were no > > > LEDs on control panel lit when turned > > > on. > > > > Is there a local spot that isolates that > > > symptom? I haven't removed the top boards yet. > > > > Hopefully I can handle that. > > > > > > > > > > I guess I am confused on VCA and VCF envelope > > > positions. Can you give me a > > > > explanation of how to determine which state the > > > IC is in. > > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:04 PM > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, if you have metered all of the power > > > supply rails in the machine, and are > > > satisfied > > > > > that they are all in spec, then go ahead and > > > put the voice boards back in. Remove the > > > > > known bad 3310's, and if any were in VCA > > > ENVELOPE positions, replace them with > > > > 3310's > > > > > from VCF ENVELOPE positions. This will allow > > > you to set up a patch with the VCF > > > > envelopes > > > > > control turned off and still have all of the > > > voices audible so that you can hear is all > > > the > > > > > voices are working. > > > > > > > > > > The EQ board on P10's was another source of > > > problems too of you don't get any > > > > sound. > > > > > > > > > > As for the sequencer board, the best way to > > > test functionality is to get the rest of the > > > > > machine basically playing and then just try > > > out the sequencer and see if it loads and > > > > plays > > > > > back notes. > > > > > > > > > > Sounds like your power supply lines are the > > > most important issue, so as I mentioned, > > > > put > > > > > all your attention on them being correct > > > first. There are lots of CEM3310's in the > > > > machine, > > > > > so you can definately get the machine playing > > > without 4 of them, just make sure that > > > > there > > > > > are good chips in the VCA envelope positions. > > > > > > > > > > Steve. > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > "fsimon100" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > Thanks, obviously I have a Rev 1. My > > > schematic is a scanned copy and > > > > > > didn't see the note and still don't but I > > > know you are correct. What > > > > > > do you think I could have damaged with the > > > 12v I put in? Like I said > > > > > > U931 shorted and got hot. I know that may be > > > a tough question > > > > > > without personally probing but the board is > > > holding the 5v now. How > > > > > > could I verify functionality of PCB9. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also if I put one of the voice boards in > > > with 4 CEM3310 missing can > > > > > > I continue troubleshooting? Is there a > > > chance I could get confidence > > > > > > from a oscope or panel lights before I buy > > > four CEMs. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > "thirteentech" > > > > > > <thirteentech@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Prophet 10 service manual shows that > > > U603 is a +5V for rev. 1 > > > > > > machines, or +12V for Rev. 0 machines. It > > > looks like that supply is > > > > > > for either a 5V > > > > > > > cassette drive or a 12V wafer drive > > > depending on which version of > > > > > > machine you have, but the schematic also > > > shows a note on the 5.6V > > > > > > rail of the PSU > > > > > > > saying: "To PCB 9, Rev 0, not used for Rev > > > 1". So depending on > > > > > > whether you have a Rev 0 or Rev 1, there > > > will be different supplies > > > > > > on P603 pins 2 and > > > > > > > 3. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > "Frank Simon" > > > > > > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Steve, > > > > > > > > I have a manual I downloaded from > > > paintingwithsound.com. It is > > > > > > hard to read. I was a little disappointed > > > when > > === message truncated === > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > >
2008-04-28 by Roy J. Tellason
On Monday 28 April 2008 05:58, Philip wrote: > Surely the machine should still boot up as those chips > are nothing to do with the CPU circuit.. Warmth of > IC's give no clue to failure. Well, most CMOS should not feel at all warm to the touch. > Some ram chips get almost too hot to touch yet they are fine. Which ones are those? -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin
2008-04-28 by Philip
> Well, most CMOS should not feel at all warm to the
> touch
I wouldnt say most...some do, some don't is better.
Anyway 'most' is hardly an accurate diagnosis tool :o)
> > Some ram chips get almost too hot to touch yet
> they are fine.
>
> Which ones are those?
4116 and derivatives..why?
Ok too hot to touch is maybe a slight
exaggeration..but certainly very, very hot. I should
add CPU's to that too.
--- "Roy J. Tellason" <rtellason@...> wrote:
> On Monday 28 April 2008 05:58, Philip wrote:
> > Surely the machine should still boot up as those
> chips
> > are nothing to do with the CPU circuit.. Warmth of
> > IC's give no clue to failure.
>
> Well, most CMOS should not feel at all warm to the
> touch.
>
> > Some ram chips get almost too hot to touch yet
> they are fine.
>
> Which ones are those?
>
>
> --
> Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most
> unrelenting -- and
> ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a
> critter that can
> be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein,
> "The Puppet Masters"
> -
> Information is more dangerous than cannon to a
> society ruled by lies. --James
> M Dakin
>
__________________________________________________________
Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html2008-04-28 by Roy J. Tellason
On Monday 28 April 2008 10:08, Philip wrote: > > Well, most CMOS should not feel at all warm to the > > touch > > I wouldnt say most...some do, some don't is better. > > Anyway 'most' is hardly an accurate diagnosis tool :o) If I felt one that was warm I'd say that part warranted further investigation, maybe scope it or something... > > > Some ram chips get almost too hot to touch yet > > > they are fine. > > > > Which ones are those? > > 4116 and derivatives..why? Because I don't recall RAM running all that warm. But then it's been a rather long time since I ran across anything using 4116s, too. :-) -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin
2008-04-29 by Frank Simon
----- Original Message -----From: thirteentechSent: Monday, April 28, 2008 7:47 AMSubject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member).What is written on the stickers on the EPROMS?
--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" ..> wrote:
>
> I don't know. How do I find this out.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Stephen Jones
> To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member).
>
>
> Which Rev. Processor board do you have? All the Rev.
> 3.1 and 3.2 Prophet 5's have a built in memory test,
> and latest software versions also have a basic CPU
> test. Which software version do you have?
>
> --- Frank Simon <;fsimon001@...> wrote:
>
> > Steve,
> > The TUNE LED does not come on. Since I am four
> > CEM3310s short, should certain slots be populated
> > just to get boot up? All the supplies are up. I am
> > suspicious of PCB9 due to the 12v applied and you
> > mentioned EQ board. There are a couple IC's that are
> > warm on the EQ board but not so hot I can't keep my
> > finger on it. Can you offer a couple key
> > troubleshooting spots for measurements to help me
> > isolate this? I'm assuming I have no way to bless
> > the Processor. All I have is an Oscope, function
> > generator, and multimeter.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: thirteentech
> > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:21 AM
> > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> > repair (was Hi from a new member).
> >
> >
> > When you turn the machine on the front panel
> > should be dark with the exception of the
> > [TUNE] switch. The machine boots into it's
> > autotune mode and suppresses all of the front
> > panel lights and controls while it does so. it
> > should take 8-10 seconds if the machine is
> > functional, longer if voices are way out of
> > calibration.
> >
> > Does the TUNE button LED come on when you power
> > up?
> >
> > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank
> > Simon" wrote:
> > >
>; > > Steve,
> > > I have all power supplies in order. There is
> > power to all boards. When I turn it on
> > shouldn't it boot up and LED's cycle on or blink
> > or even be switchable? The panel is dead.
> > Does this sound like processor to you?
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: thirteentech
> > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:07 AM
> > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> > repair (was Hi from a new member).
> > >
> > >
> > > Each of the 5 voices on each voice board has two
> > CEM3310 envelope generators. One
> > > controls the volume envelope of the voice, and
> > the other controls the filter cutoff of
> > the
> > > voice if you bring up the filter envelope
> > modulation control. If the 3310's in the filter
> > > control line are faulty it should only manifest
> > when you turn on the filter envelope
> > > modulation. If this is off then the voice should
> > sound if the VCF cutoff pot is set open.
> > If
> > > you have bad 3310's in the VCA envelpoe
> > position, the voice won't sound.
> > >
> > > I am assuming that your P10 has Rev 3.x Prophet
> > 5 voice boards in it, because in the
> > > Sequential System Technical manual which covers
> > all Prophets from Rev 3.0-3.2, the
> > > Prophet 10 and the Poly Sequencer, they all use
> > the same basic voice board. So for
> > > instance, in Voice 1 of the voice board, U412 is
> > the amplifier envelope generator, and
> > > U417 is the filter envelope generator.
> > >
> > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> > "Frank Simon" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Steve,
> > > > I am pleased to know there is a technique to
> > troube this with the bad ICs. I hope to
> > get
> > > to that point soon. If I remember there were no
> > LEDs on control panel lit when turned
> > on.
> > > Is there a local spot that isolates that
> > symptom? I haven't removed the top boards yet.
> > > Hopefully I can handle that.
> > > >
> > > > I guess I am confused on VCA and VCF envelope
> > positions. Can you give me a
> > > explanation of how to determine which state the
> > IC is in.
>; > > > Frank
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: thirteentech
> > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:04 PM
> > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10
> > repair (was Hi from a new member).
> > > >
> > > >
>; > > > Well, if you have metered all of the power
> > supply rails in the machine, and are
> > satisfied
> > > > that they are all in spec, then go ahead and
> > put the voice boards back in. Remove the
> > > > known bad 3310's, and if any were in VCA
> > ENVELOPE positions, replace them with
> > > 3310's
> > > > from VCF ENVELOPE positions. This will allow
> > you to set up a patch with the VCF
> > > envelopes
> > > > control turned off and still have all of the
> > voices audible so that you can hear is all
> > the
> > > > voices are working.
> > > >
> > > > The EQ board on P10's was another source of
> > problems too of you don't get any
> > > sound.
> > > >
> > > > As for the sequencer board, the best way to
> > test functionality is to get the rest of the
> > > > machine basically playing and then just try
> > out the sequencer and see if it loads and
> > > plays
> > > > back notes.
> > > >
> > > > Sounds like your power supply lines are the
> > most important issue, so as I mentioned,
> > > put
> > > > all your attention on them being correct
> > first. There are lots of CEM3310's in the
> > > machine,
> > > > so you can definately get the machine playing
> > without 4 of them, just make sure that
> > > there
> > > > are good chips in the VCA envelope positions.
> > > >
> > > > Steve.
> > > >
> > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> > "fsimon100" > > > > >
> > > > > Steve,
> > > > > Thanks, obviously I have a Rev 1. My
>; > schematic is a scanned copy and
> > > > > didn't see the note and still don't but I
> > know you are correct. What
> > > > > do you think I could have damaged with the
> > 12v I put in? Like I said
> > > > >; U931 shorted and got hot. I know that may be
> > a tough question
> > > > > without personally probing but the board is
> > holding the 5v now. How
> > > > > could I verify functionality of PCB9.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also if I put one of the voice boards in
> > with 4 CEM3310 missing can
> > > > > I continue troubleshooting? Is there a
> > chance I could get confidence
> > > > > from a oscope or panel lights before I buy
> > four CEMs.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> > "thirteentech"
> > > > > > wrote:
>; > > > > >
> > > > > > The Prophet 10 service manual shows that
> > U603 is a +5V for rev. 1
> > > > > machines, or +12V for Rev. 0 machines. It
> > looks like that supply is
> > > > > for either a 5V
> > > > > > cassette drive or a 12V wafer drive
> > depending on which version of
> > > > > machine you have, but the schematic also
> > shows a note on the 5.6V
> > > > > rail of the PSU
> > > > > > saying: "To PCB 9, Rev 0, not used for Rev
> > 1". So depending on
> > > > > whether you have a Rev 0 or Rev 1, there
> > will be different supplies
> > > > > on P603 pins 2 and
> > > > > > 3.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
>; > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> > "Frank Simon"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >; > Hi Steve,
> > > > > > > I have a manual I downloaded from
> > paintingwithsound.com. It is
> > > > > hard to read. I was a little disappointed
> > when
> === message truncated ===
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
2008-04-29 by Philip
Eproms do not need a battery to hold data..it's
permanent(sort of).
Im not being funny but a lot of your questions are
answerable with a quick google search. for instance:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPROM
You should do that before asking on lists as you will
gain a much better understanding reading some good
articles.
Also without some basic understanding of how synths
and basic digital electronics work..IE old CPU's rom ,
ram busses...you are going to be pretty much stabbing
in the dark here unless you are lucky.
I suggest spending some time reading up and
researching properly..I honestly don't mean any of
this in a patronising way. I just think it will help
you to move forward and achieve your goal.
I believe there are some very good books out there on
these subjects.
Phil.
--- Frank Simon <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> On Brd 3 there are three EPROMs with the Z80 CPU.
> The first says: 0 TEN 5.0, second says: 1 TEN 5.0,
> third says: 2 TEN 5.0 on their stickers.
>
> On Brd 9 there is one EPROM with the Z80 CPU. The
> sticker on it is not too legible what I do see is:
> SEQ (that part is clear) below it say C1 or C.1 or I
> was thinking maybe 2.1( if upper half of 2 was
> missing).
>
> Both Z80s on pin 6 CLK have 2.5MHz clock at about 4v
> p-p. and 5v dc on pin 11. Does the EPROM lose all
> programming if battery dies? If so how do you
> reload? Will keyboard not boot without EPROM
> program. My friend today is bringing me a Z80 CPU in
> so I can swap out.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: thirteentech
> To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 7:47 AM
> Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> repair (was Hi from a new member).
>
>
> What is written on the stickers on the EPROMS?
>
> --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank
> Simon" <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> >
> > I don't know. How do I find this out.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Stephen Jones
> > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:14 AM
> > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> repair (was Hi from a new member).
> >
> >
> > Which Rev. Processor board do you have? All the
> Rev.
> > 3.1 and 3.2 Prophet 5's have a built in memory
> test,
> > and latest software versions also have a basic
> CPU
> > test. Which software version do you have?
> >
> > --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> >
> > > Steve,
> > > The TUNE LED does not come on. Since I am four
> > > CEM3310s short, should certain slots be
> populated
> > > just to get boot up? All the supplies are up.
> I am
> > > suspicious of PCB9 due to the 12v applied and
> you
> > > mentioned EQ board. There are a couple IC's
> that are
> > > warm on the EQ board but not so hot I can't
> keep my
> > > finger on it. Can you offer a couple key
> > > troubleshooting spots for measurements to help
> me
> > > isolate this? I'm assuming I have no way to
> bless
> > > the Processor. All I have is an Oscope,
> function
> > > generator, and multimeter.
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: thirteentech
> > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:21 AM
> > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> > > repair (was Hi from a new member).
> > >
> > >
> > > When you turn the machine on the front panel
> > > should be dark with the exception of the
> > > [TUNE] switch. The machine boots into it's
> > > autotune mode and suppresses all of the front
> > > panel lights and controls while it does so. it
> > > should take 8-10 seconds if the machine is
> > > functional, longer if voices are way out of
> > > calibration.
> > >
> > > Does the TUNE button LED come on when you
> power
> > > up?
> > >
> > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "Frank
> > > Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Steve,
> > > > I have all power supplies in order. There is
> > > power to all boards. When I turn it on
> > > shouldn't it boot up and LED's cycle on or
> blink
> > > or even be switchable? The panel is dead.
> > > Does this sound like processor to you?
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: thirteentech
> > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:07 AM
> > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> > > repair (was Hi from a new member).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Each of the 5 voices on each voice board has
> two
> > > CEM3310 envelope generators. One
> > > > controls the volume envelope of the voice,
> and
> > > the other controls the filter cutoff of
> > > the
> > > > voice if you bring up the filter envelope
> > > modulation control. If the 3310's in the
> filter
> > > > control line are faulty it should only
> manifest
> > > when you turn on the filter envelope
> > > > modulation. If this is off then the voice
> should
> > > sound if the VCF cutoff pot is set open.
> > > If
> > > > you have bad 3310's in the VCA envelpoe
> > > position, the voice won't sound.
> > > >
> > > > I am assuming that your P10 has Rev 3.x
> Prophet
> > > 5 voice boards in it, because in the
> > > > Sequential System Technical manual which
> covers
> > > all Prophets from Rev 3.0-3.2, the
> > > > Prophet 10 and the Poly Sequencer, they all
> use
> > > the same basic voice board. So for
> > > > instance, in Voice 1 of the voice board,
> U412 is
> > > the amplifier envelope generator, and
> > > > U417 is the filter envelope generator.
> > > >
> > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> > > "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Steve,
> > > > > I am pleased to know there is a technique
> to
> > > troube this with the bad ICs. I hope to
> > > get
> > > > to that point soon. If I remember there were
> no
> > > LEDs on control panel lit when turned
> > > on.
> > > > Is there a local spot that isolates that
> > > symptom? I haven't removed the top boards yet.
>
> > > > Hopefully I can handle that.
> > > > >
> > > > > I guess I am confused on VCA and VCF
> envelope
> > > positions. Can you give me a
> > > > explanation of how to determine which state
> the
> > > IC is in.
> > > > > Frank
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: thirteentech
> > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:04 PM
> > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10
> > > repair (was Hi from a new member).
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, if you have metered all of the power
> > > supply rails in the machine, and are
> > > satisfied
> > > > > that they are all in spec, then go ahead
> and
> > > put the voice boards back in. Remove the
> > > > > known bad 3310's, and if any were in VCA
> > > ENVELOPE positions, replace them with
> > > > 3310's
> > > > > from VCF ENVELOPE positions. This will
> allow
> > > you to set up a patch with the VCF
> > > > envelopes
> > > > > control turned off and still have all of
> the
> > > voices audible so that you can hear is all
> > > the
>
=== message truncated ===
__________________________________________________________
Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html2008-04-29 by thirteentech
I am not certain what the P10's last OS revision was, the highest that I have seen on a Prophet 5 is V9.3. Looking at the schematics of the 2 machines the CPU board is similar, they do have different EPROM and NV RAM chips. Also the P 10 has different scanning circuitry because it would have an unacceptable scan delay with 2 keyboards as opposed to the P5's 1 keyboard, which has a maximum delay of 10 Ms. The scanner also scans all of the buttons during each cycle. For what it's worth (not knowing if it also applies to the P-10), to enter the CPU and RAM test on a late rev. Prophet 5, turn off the power, put the record switch to "enabled", and jumper test point 304 (MEM TEST) to plus 5V, then turn on. The machine starts sequentially flashing it's LED's, to then enter the memory test, press TUNE. It runs through 4 tests, counting 1-4 as it does them, and finishes on 0, indication no failures. If it stops on 1-4, it is indication a failure of either the scratchpad RAM, NV RAM, PROM or 8253 timer (1,2,3 and 4). I haven't used these tests on a P10, so I don't know if they apply, but otherwise maybe the best idea would be to disconnect the sequencer board and just start the usual traditional checking of the main CPU lines to see if any of the data or address lines are hung. --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@...> wrote: > > On Brd 3 there are three EPROMs with the Z80 CPU. The first says: 0 TEN 5.0, second says: 1 TEN 5.0, third says: 2 TEN 5.0 on their stickers. > > On Brd 9 there is one EPROM with the Z80 CPU. The sticker on it is not too legible what I do see is: SEQ (that part is clear) below it say C1 or C.1 or I was thinking maybe 2.1( if upper half of 2 was missing). > > Both Z80s on pin 6 CLK have 2.5MHz clock at about 4v p-p. and 5v dc on pin 11. Does the EPROM lose all programming if battery dies? If so how do you reload? Will keyboard not boot without EPROM program. My friend today is bringing me a Z80 CPU in so I can swap out.
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: thirteentech > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 7:47 AM > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > What is written on the stickers on the EPROMS? > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > I don't know. How do I find this out. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Stephen Jones > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:14 AM > > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > Which Rev. Processor board do you have? All the Rev. > > 3.1 and 3.2 Prophet 5's have a built in memory test, > > and latest software versions also have a basic CPU > > test. Which software version do you have? > > > > --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > Steve, > > > The TUNE LED does not come on. Since I am four > > > CEM3310s short, should certain slots be populated > > > just to get boot up? All the supplies are up. I am > > > suspicious of PCB9 due to the 12v applied and you > > > mentioned EQ board. There are a couple IC's that are > > > warm on the EQ board but not so hot I can't keep my > > > finger on it. Can you offer a couple key > > > troubleshooting spots for measurements to help me > > > isolate this? I'm assuming I have no way to bless > > > the Processor. All I have is an Oscope, function > > > generator, and multimeter. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: thirteentech > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:21 AM > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > When you turn the machine on the front panel > > > should be dark with the exception of the > > > [TUNE] switch. The machine boots into it's > > > autotune mode and suppresses all of the front > > > panel lights and controls while it does so. it > > > should take 8-10 seconds if the machine is > > > functional, longer if voices are way out of > > > calibration. > > > > > > Does the TUNE button LED come on when you power > > > up? > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank > > > Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > I have all power supplies in order. There is > > > power to all boards. When I turn it on > > > shouldn't it boot up and LED's cycle on or blink > > > or even be switchable? The panel is dead. > > > Does this sound like processor to you? > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:07 AM > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > Each of the 5 voices on each voice board has two > > > CEM3310 envelope generators. One > > > > controls the volume envelope of the voice, and > > > the other controls the filter cutoff of > > > the > > > > voice if you bring up the filter envelope > > > modulation control. If the 3310's in the filter > > > > control line are faulty it should only manifest > > > when you turn on the filter envelope > > > > modulation. If this is off then the voice should > > > sound if the VCF cutoff pot is set open. > > > If > > > > you have bad 3310's in the VCA envelpoe > > > position, the voice won't sound. > > > > > > > > I am assuming that your P10 has Rev 3.x Prophet > > > 5 voice boards in it, because in the > > > > Sequential System Technical manual which covers > > > all Prophets from Rev 3.0-3.2, the > > > > Prophet 10 and the Poly Sequencer, they all use > > > the same basic voice board. So for > > > > instance, in Voice 1 of the voice board, U412 is > > > the amplifier envelope generator, and > > > > U417 is the filter envelope generator. > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > I am pleased to know there is a technique to > > > troube this with the bad ICs. I hope to > > > get > > > > to that point soon. If I remember there were no > > > LEDs on control panel lit when turned > > > on. > > > > Is there a local spot that isolates that > > > symptom? I haven't removed the top boards yet. > > > > Hopefully I can handle that. > > > > > > > > > > I guess I am confused on VCA and VCF envelope > > > positions. Can you give me a > > > > explanation of how to determine which state the > > > IC is in. > > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:04 PM > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, if you have metered all of the power > > > supply rails in the machine, and are > > > satisfied > > > > > that they are all in spec, then go ahead and > > > put the voice boards back in. Remove the > > > > > known bad 3310's, and if any were in VCA > > > ENVELOPE positions, replace them with > > > > 3310's > > > > > from VCF ENVELOPE positions. This will allow > > > you to set up a patch with the VCF > > > > envelopes > > > > > control turned off and still have all of the > > > voices audible so that you can hear is all > > > the > > > > > voices are working. > > > > > > > > > > The EQ board on P10's was another source of > > > problems too of you don't get any > > > > sound. > > > > > > > > > > As for the sequencer board, the best way to > > > test functionality is to get the rest of the > > > > > machine basically playing and then just try > > > out the sequencer and see if it loads and > > > > plays > > > > > back notes. > > > > > > > > > > Sounds like your power supply lines are the > > > most important issue, so as I mentioned, > > > > put > > > > > all your attention on them being correct > > > first. There are lots of CEM3310's in the > > > > machine, > > > > > so you can definately get the machine playing > > > without 4 of them, just make sure that > > > > there > > > > > are good chips in the VCA envelope positions. > > > > > > > > > > Steve. > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > "fsimon100" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > Thanks, obviously I have a Rev 1. My > > > schematic is a scanned copy and > > > > > > didn't see the note and still don't but I > > > know you are correct. What > > > > > > do you think I could have damaged with the > > > 12v I put in? Like I said > > > > > > U931 shorted and got hot. I know that may be > > > a tough question > > > > > > without personally probing but the board is > > > holding the 5v now. How > > > > > > could I verify functionality of PCB9. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also if I put one of the voice boards in > > > with 4 CEM3310 missing can > > > > > > I continue troubleshooting? Is there a > > > chance I could get confidence > > > > > > from a oscope or panel lights before I buy > > > four CEMs. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > "thirteentech" > > > > > > <thirteentech@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Prophet 10 service manual shows that > > > U603 is a +5V for rev. 1 > > > > > > machines, or +12V for Rev. 0 machines. It > > > looks like that supply is > > > > > > for either a 5V > > > > > > > cassette drive or a 12V wafer drive > > > depending on which version of > > > > > > machine you have, but the schematic also > > > shows a note on the 5.6V > > > > > > rail of the PSU > > > > > > > saying: "To PCB 9, Rev 0, not used for Rev > > > 1". So depending on > > > > > > whether you have a Rev 0 or Rev 1, there > > > will be different supplies > > > > > > on P603 pins 2 and > > > > > > > 3. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > "Frank Simon" > > > > > > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Steve, > > > > > > > > I have a manual I downloaded from > > > paintingwithsound.com. It is > > > > > > hard to read. I was a little disappointed > > > when > > === message truncated === > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > >
2008-04-29 by thirteentech
BTW, I should mention that running RAM tests on the Prophet will of course erase any user memories stored in the machine. --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "thirteentech" <thirteentech@...> wrote: > > I am not certain what the P10's last OS revision was, the highest that I have seen on a > Prophet 5 is V9.3. Looking at the schematics of the 2 machines the CPU board is similar, > they do have different EPROM and NV RAM chips. Also the P 10 has different scanning > circuitry because it would have an unacceptable scan delay with 2 keyboards as opposed > to the P5's 1 keyboard, which has a maximum delay of 10 Ms. The scanner also scans all of > the buttons during each cycle. > > For what it's worth (not knowing if it also applies to the P-10), to enter the CPU and RAM > test on a late rev. Prophet 5, turn off the power, put the record switch to "enabled", and > jumper test point 304 (MEM TEST) to plus 5V, then turn on. The machine starts > sequentially flashing it's LED's, to then enter the memory test, press TUNE. It runs through > 4 tests, counting 1-4 as it does them, and finishes on 0, indication no failures. If it stops > on 1-4, it is indication a failure of either the scratchpad RAM, NV RAM, PROM or 8253 > timer (1,2,3 and 4). > > I haven't used these tests on a P10, so I don't know if they apply, but otherwise maybe the > best idea would be to disconnect the sequencer board and just start the usual traditional > checking of the main CPU lines to see if any of the data or address lines are hung. > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > On Brd 3 there are three EPROMs with the Z80 CPU. The first says: 0 TEN 5.0, second > says: 1 TEN 5.0, third says: 2 TEN 5.0 on their stickers. > > > > On Brd 9 there is one EPROM with the Z80 CPU. The sticker on it is not too legible what I > do see is: SEQ (that part is clear) below it say C1 or C.1 or I was thinking maybe 2.1( if > upper half of 2 was missing). > > > > Both Z80s on pin 6 CLK have 2.5MHz clock at about 4v p-p. and 5v dc on pin 11. Does > the EPROM lose all programming if battery dies? If so how do you reload? Will keyboard > not boot without EPROM program. My friend today is bringing me a Z80 CPU in so I can > swap out. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: thirteentech > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 7:47 AM > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > What is written on the stickers on the EPROMS? > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > I don't know. How do I find this out. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Stephen Jones > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:14 AM > > > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member).
> > > > > > > > > Which Rev. Processor board do you have? All the Rev. > > > 3.1 and 3.2 Prophet 5's have a built in memory test, > > > and latest software versions also have a basic CPU > > > test. Which software version do you have? > > > > > > --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > The TUNE LED does not come on. Since I am four > > > > CEM3310s short, should certain slots be populated > > > > just to get boot up? All the supplies are up. I am > > > > suspicious of PCB9 due to the 12v applied and you > > > > mentioned EQ board. There are a couple IC's that are > > > > warm on the EQ board but not so hot I can't keep my > > > > finger on it. Can you offer a couple key > > > > troubleshooting spots for measurements to help me > > > > isolate this? I'm assuming I have no way to bless > > > > the Processor. All I have is an Oscope, function > > > > generator, and multimeter. > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:21 AM > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > When you turn the machine on the front panel > > > > should be dark with the exception of the > > > > [TUNE] switch. The machine boots into it's > > > > autotune mode and suppresses all of the front > > > > panel lights and controls while it does so. it > > > > should take 8-10 seconds if the machine is > > > > functional, longer if voices are way out of > > > > calibration. > > > > > > > > Does the TUNE button LED come on when you power > > > > up? > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank > > > > Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > I have all power supplies in order. There is > > > > power to all boards. When I turn it on > > > > shouldn't it boot up and LED's cycle on or blink > > > > or even be switchable? The panel is dead. > > > > Does this sound like processor to you? > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:07 AM > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each of the 5 voices on each voice board has two > > > > CEM3310 envelope generators. One > > > > > controls the volume envelope of the voice, and > > > > the other controls the filter cutoff of > > > > the > > > > > voice if you bring up the filter envelope > > > > modulation control. If the 3310's in the filter > > > > > control line are faulty it should only manifest > > > > when you turn on the filter envelope > > > > > modulation. If this is off then the voice should > > > > sound if the VCF cutoff pot is set open. > > > > If > > > > > you have bad 3310's in the VCA envelpoe > > > > position, the voice won't sound. > > > > > > > > > > I am assuming that your P10 has Rev 3.x Prophet > > > > 5 voice boards in it, because in the > > > > > Sequential System Technical manual which covers > > > > all Prophets from Rev 3.0-3.2, the > > > > > Prophet 10 and the Poly Sequencer, they all use > > > > the same basic voice board. So for > > > > > instance, in Voice 1 of the voice board, U412 is > > > > the amplifier envelope generator, and > > > > > U417 is the filter envelope generator. > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > I am pleased to know there is a technique to > > > > troube this with the bad ICs. I hope to > > > > get > > > > > to that point soon. If I remember there were no > > > > LEDs on control panel lit when turned > > > > on. > > > > > Is there a local spot that isolates that > > > > symptom? I haven't removed the top boards yet. > > > > > Hopefully I can handle that. > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess I am confused on VCA and VCF envelope > > > > positions. Can you give me a > > > > > explanation of how to determine which state the > > > > IC is in. > > > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:04 PM > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, if you have metered all of the power > > > > supply rails in the machine, and are > > > > satisfied > > > > > > that they are all in spec, then go ahead and > > > > put the voice boards back in. Remove the > > > > > > known bad 3310's, and if any were in VCA > > > > ENVELOPE positions, replace them with > > > > > 3310's > > > > > > from VCF ENVELOPE positions. This will allow > > > > you to set up a patch with the VCF > > > > > envelopes > > > > > > control turned off and still have all of the > > > > voices audible so that you can hear is all > > > > the > > > > > > voices are working. > > > > > > > > > > > > The EQ board on P10's was another source of > > > > problems too of you don't get any > > > > > sound. > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the sequencer board, the best way to > > > > test functionality is to get the rest of the > > > > > > machine basically playing and then just try > > > > out the sequencer and see if it loads and > > > > > plays > > > > > > back notes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sounds like your power supply lines are the > > > > most important issue, so as I mentioned, > > > > > put > > > > > > all your attention on them being correct > > > > first. There are lots of CEM3310's in the > > > > > machine, > > > > > > so you can definately get the machine playing > > > > without 4 of them, just make sure that > > > > > there > > > > > > are good chips in the VCA envelope positions. > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > "fsimon100" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > > Thanks, obviously I have a Rev 1. My > > > > schematic is a scanned copy and > > > > > > > didn't see the note and still don't but I > > > > know you are correct. What > > > > > > > do you think I could have damaged with the > > > > 12v I put in? Like I said > > > > > > > U931 shorted and got hot. I know that may be > > > > a tough question > > > > > > > without personally probing but the board is > > > > holding the 5v now. How > > > > > > > could I verify functionality of PCB9. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also if I put one of the voice boards in > > > > with 4 CEM3310 missing can > > > > > > > I continue troubleshooting? Is there a > > > > chance I could get confidence > > > > > > > from a oscope or panel lights before I buy > > > > four CEMs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > "thirteentech" > > > > > > > <thirteentech@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Prophet 10 service manual shows that > > > > U603 is a +5V for rev. 1 > > > > > > > machines, or +12V for Rev. 0 machines. It > > > > looks like that supply is > > > > > > > for either a 5V > > > > > > > > cassette drive or a 12V wafer drive > > > > depending on which version of > > > > > > > machine you have, but the schematic also > > > > shows a note on the 5.6V > > > > > > > rail of the PSU > > > > > > > > saying: "To PCB 9, Rev 0, not used for Rev > > > > 1". So depending on > > > > > > > whether you have a Rev 0 or Rev 1, there > > > > will be different supplies > > > > > > > on P603 pins 2 and > > > > > > > > 3. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > "Frank Simon" > > > > > > > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Steve, > > > > > > > > > I have a manual I downloaded from > > > > paintingwithsound.com. It is > > > > > > > hard to read. I was a little disappointed > > > > when > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > >
2008-04-29 by Roy J. Tellason
On Tuesday 29 April 2008 04:37, Philip wrote: > Eproms do not need a battery to hold data..it's > permanent(sort of). > > Im not being funny but a lot of your questions are > answerable with a quick google search. for instance: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPROM > > You should do that before asking on lists as you will > gain a much better understanding reading some good > articles. > > Also without some basic understanding of how synths > and basic digital electronics work..IE old CPU's rom , > ram busses...you are going to be pretty much stabbing > in the dark here unless you are lucky. > > I suggest spending some time reading up and > researching properly..I honestly don't mean any of > this in a patronising way. I just think it will help > you to move forward and achieve your goal. > > I believe there are some very good books out there on > these subjects. > > Phil. There's a fairly good set of books covering the basics here: http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/l_sitemap.html If you hit the "pdf" link on the top right corner of each page, you can download the whole books... :-) > --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@...> wrote: > > On Brd 3 there are three EPROMs with the Z80 CPU. > > The first says: 0 TEN 5.0, second says: 1 TEN 5.0, > > third says: 2 TEN 5.0 on their stickers. > > > > On Brd 9 there is one EPROM with the Z80 CPU. The > > sticker on it is not too legible what I do see is: > > SEQ (that part is clear) below it say C1 or C.1 or I > > was thinking maybe 2.1( if upper half of 2 was > > missing). > > > > Both Z80s on pin 6 CLK have 2.5MHz clock at about 4v > > p-p. and 5v dc on pin 11. Does the EPROM lose all > > programming if battery dies? If so how do you > > reload? Will keyboard not boot without EPROM > > program. My friend today is bringing me a Z80 CPU in > > so I can swap out. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: thirteentech > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 7:47 AM > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > What is written on the stickers on the EPROMS? > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank > > > > Simon" <fsimon001@...> wrote: > > > I don't know. How do I find this out. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Stephen Jones > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:14 AM > > > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > Which Rev. Processor board do you have? All the > > > > Rev. > > > > > 3.1 and 3.2 Prophet 5's have a built in memory > > > > test, > > > > > and latest software versions also have a basic > > > > CPU > > > > > test. Which software version do you have? > > > > > > --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@...> wrote: > > > > Steve, > > > > The TUNE LED does not come on. Since I am four > > > > CEM3310s short, should certain slots be > > > > populated > > > > > > just to get boot up? All the supplies are up. > > > > I am > > > > > > suspicious of PCB9 due to the 12v applied and > > > > you > > > > > > mentioned EQ board. There are a couple IC's > > > > that are > > > > > > warm on the EQ board but not so hot I can't > > > > keep my > > > > > > finger on it. Can you offer a couple key > > > > troubleshooting spots for measurements to help > > > > me > > > > > > isolate this? I'm assuming I have no way to > > > > bless > > > > > > the Processor. All I have is an Oscope, > > > > function > > > > > > generator, and multimeter. > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:21 AM > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > When you turn the machine on the front panel > > > > should be dark with the exception of the > > > > [TUNE] switch. The machine boots into it's > > > > autotune mode and suppresses all of the front > > > > panel lights and controls while it does so. it > > > > should take 8-10 seconds if the machine is > > > > functional, longer if voices are way out of > > > > calibration. > > > > > > > > Does the TUNE button LED come on when you > > > > power > > > > > > up? > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > "Frank > > > > > > Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > Steve, > > > > > I have all power supplies in order. There is > > > > > > > > power to all boards. When I turn it on > > > > shouldn't it boot up and LED's cycle on or > > > > blink > > > > > > or even be switchable? The panel is dead. > > > > Does this sound like processor to you? > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:07 AM > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 > > > > > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > Each of the 5 voices on each voice board has > > > > two > > > > > > CEM3310 envelope generators. One > > > > > > > > > controls the volume envelope of the voice, > > > > and > > > > > > the other controls the filter cutoff of > > > > the > > > > > > > > > voice if you bring up the filter envelope > > > > > > > > modulation control. If the 3310's in the > > > > filter > > > > > > > control line are faulty it should only > > > > manifest > > > > > > when you turn on the filter envelope > > > > > > > > > modulation. If this is off then the voice > > > > should > > > > > > sound if the VCF cutoff pot is set open. > > > > If > > > > > > > > > you have bad 3310's in the VCA envelpoe > > > > > > > > position, the voice won't sound. > > > > > > > > > I am assuming that your P10 has Rev 3.x > > > > Prophet > > > > > > 5 voice boards in it, because in the > > > > > > > > > Sequential System Technical manual which > > > > covers > > > > > > all Prophets from Rev 3.0-3.2, the > > > > > > > > > Prophet 10 and the Poly Sequencer, they all > > > > use > > > > > > the same basic voice board. So for > > > > > > > > > instance, in Voice 1 of the voice board, > > > > U412 is > > > > > > the amplifier envelope generator, and > > > > > > > > > U417 is the filter envelope generator. > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > > > > "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > I am pleased to know there is a technique > > > > to > > > > > > troube this with the bad ICs. I hope to > > > > get > > > > > > > > > to that point soon. If I remember there were > > > > no > > > > > > LEDs on control panel lit when turned > > > > on. > > > > > > > > > Is there a local spot that isolates that > > > > > > > > symptom? I haven't removed the top boards yet. > > > > > > > > > Hopefully I can handle that. > > > > > > > > > > > I guess I am confused on VCA and VCF > > > > envelope > > > > > > positions. Can you give me a > > > > > > > > > explanation of how to determine which state > > > > the > > > > > > IC is in. > > > > > > > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:04 PM > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 > > > > > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > Well, if you have metered all of the power > > > > > > > > supply rails in the machine, and are > > > > satisfied > > > > > > > > > > that they are all in spec, then go ahead > > > > and > > > > > > put the voice boards back in. Remove the > > > > > > > > > > known bad 3310's, and if any were in VCA > > > > > > > > ENVELOPE positions, replace them with > > > > > > > > > 3310's > > > > > > > > > > > from VCF ENVELOPE positions. This will > > > > allow > > > > > > you to set up a patch with the VCF > > > > > > > > > envelopes > > > > > > > > > > > control turned off and still have all of > > > > the > > > > > > voices audible so that you can hear is all > > > > the > > === message truncated === > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Sent from Yahoo! Mail. > A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin
2008-04-29 by fsimon100
Steve, Thanks. Are these diagnostics tribal knowledge or are they documented in a manual. I do not hve the P10 manual. If I find one will it give me diags. I have disconnected the Seq board so obviously your saying it will run without it. Great. One system removed. I do have a z80 CPU to swap out. I was thinking the record switch was a microswitch so to enable would be a pull down or pull up Res on PCB. --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "thirteentech" <thirteentech@...> wrote: > > I am not certain what the P10's last OS revision was, the highest that I have seen on a > Prophet 5 is V9.3. Looking at the schematics of the 2 machines the CPU board is similar, > they do have different EPROM and NV RAM chips. Also the P 10 has different scanning > circuitry because it would have an unacceptable scan delay with 2 keyboards as opposed > to the P5's 1 keyboard, which has a maximum delay of 10 Ms. The scanner also scans all of > the buttons during each cycle. > > For what it's worth (not knowing if it also applies to the P-10), to enter the CPU and RAM > test on a late rev. Prophet 5, turn off the power, put the record switch to "enabled", and > jumper test point 304 (MEM TEST) to plus 5V, then turn on. The machine starts > sequentially flashing it's LED's, to then enter the memory test, press TUNE. It runs through > 4 tests, counting 1-4 as it does them, and finishes on 0, indication no failures. If it stops > on 1-4, it is indication a failure of either the scratchpad RAM, NV RAM, PROM or 8253 > timer (1,2,3 and 4). > > I haven't used these tests on a P10, so I don't know if they apply, but otherwise maybe the > best idea would be to disconnect the sequencer board and just start the usual traditional > checking of the main CPU lines to see if any of the data or address lines are hung. > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > On Brd 3 there are three EPROMs with the Z80 CPU. The first says: 0 TEN 5.0, second > says: 1 TEN 5.0, third says: 2 TEN 5.0 on their stickers. > > > > On Brd 9 there is one EPROM with the Z80 CPU. The sticker on it is not too legible what I > do see is: SEQ (that part is clear) below it say C1 or C.1 or I was thinking maybe 2.1( if > upper half of 2 was missing). > > > > Both Z80s on pin 6 CLK have 2.5MHz clock at about 4v p-p. and 5v dc on pin 11. Does > the EPROM lose all programming if battery dies? If so how do you reload? Will keyboard > not boot without EPROM program. My friend today is bringing me a Z80 CPU in so I can > swap out. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: thirteentech > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 7:47 AM > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > What is written on the stickers on the EPROMS? > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > I don't know. How do I find this out. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Stephen Jones > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:14 AM > > > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member).
> > > > > > > > > Which Rev. Processor board do you have? All the Rev. > > > 3.1 and 3.2 Prophet 5's have a built in memory test, > > > and latest software versions also have a basic CPU > > > test. Which software version do you have? > > > > > > --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > The TUNE LED does not come on. Since I am four > > > > CEM3310s short, should certain slots be populated > > > > just to get boot up? All the supplies are up. I am > > > > suspicious of PCB9 due to the 12v applied and you > > > > mentioned EQ board. There are a couple IC's that are > > > > warm on the EQ board but not so hot I can't keep my > > > > finger on it. Can you offer a couple key > > > > troubleshooting spots for measurements to help me > > > > isolate this? I'm assuming I have no way to bless > > > > the Processor. All I have is an Oscope, function > > > > generator, and multimeter. > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@...m > > > > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:21 AM > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > When you turn the machine on the front panel > > > > should be dark with the exception of the > > > > [TUNE] switch. The machine boots into it's > > > > autotune mode and suppresses all of the front > > > > panel lights and controls while it does so. it > > > > should take 8-10 seconds if the machine is > > > > functional, longer if voices are way out of > > > > calibration. > > > > > > > > Does the TUNE button LED come on when you power > > > > up? > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank > > > > Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > I have all power supplies in order. There is > > > > power to all boards. When I turn it on > > > > shouldn't it boot up and LED's cycle on or blink > > > > or even be switchable? The panel is dead. > > > > Does this sound like processor to you? > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:07 AM > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each of the 5 voices on each voice board has two > > > > CEM3310 envelope generators. One > > > > > controls the volume envelope of the voice, and > > > > the other controls the filter cutoff of > > > > the > > > > > voice if you bring up the filter envelope > > > > modulation control. If the 3310's in the filter > > > > > control line are faulty it should only manifest > > > > when you turn on the filter envelope > > > > > modulation. If this is off then the voice should > > > > sound if the VCF cutoff pot is set open. > > > > If > > > > > you have bad 3310's in the VCA envelpoe > > > > position, the voice won't sound. > > > > > > > > > > I am assuming that your P10 has Rev 3.x Prophet > > > > 5 voice boards in it, because in the > > > > > Sequential System Technical manual which covers > > > > all Prophets from Rev 3.0-3.2, the > > > > > Prophet 10 and the Poly Sequencer, they all use > > > > the same basic voice board. So for > > > > > instance, in Voice 1 of the voice board, U412 is > > > > the amplifier envelope generator, and > > > > > U417 is the filter envelope generator. > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > I am pleased to know there is a technique to > > > > troube this with the bad ICs. I hope to > > > > get > > > > > to that point soon. If I remember there were no > > > > LEDs on control panel lit when turned > > > > on. > > > > > Is there a local spot that isolates that > > > > symptom? I haven't removed the top boards yet. > > > > > Hopefully I can handle that. > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess I am confused on VCA and VCF envelope > > > > positions. Can you give me a > > > > > explanation of how to determine which state the > > > > IC is in. > > > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:04 PM > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, if you have metered all of the power > > > > supply rails in the machine, and are > > > > satisfied > > > > > > that they are all in spec, then go ahead and > > > > put the voice boards back in. Remove the > > > > > > known bad 3310's, and if any were in VCA > > > > ENVELOPE positions, replace them with > > > > > 3310's > > > > > > from VCF ENVELOPE positions. This will allow > > > > you to set up a patch with the VCF > > > > > envelopes > > > > > > control turned off and still have all of the > > > > voices audible so that you can hear is all > > > > the > > > > > > voices are working. > > > > > > > > > > > > The EQ board on P10's was another source of > > > > problems too of you don't get any > > > > > sound. > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the sequencer board, the best way to > > > > test functionality is to get the rest of the > > > > > > machine basically playing and then just try > > > > out the sequencer and see if it loads and > > > > > plays > > > > > > back notes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sounds like your power supply lines are the > > > > most important issue, so as I mentioned, > > > > > put > > > > > > all your attention on them being correct > > > > first. There are lots of CEM3310's in the > > > > > machine, > > > > > > so you can definately get the machine playing > > > > without 4 of them, just make sure that > > > > > there > > > > > > are good chips in the VCA envelope positions. > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > "fsimon100" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > > Thanks, obviously I have a Rev 1. My > > > > schematic is a scanned copy and > > > > > > > didn't see the note and still don't but I > > > > know you are correct. What > > > > > > > do you think I could have damaged with the > > > > 12v I put in? Like I said > > > > > > > U931 shorted and got hot. I know that may be > > > > a tough question > > > > > > > without personally probing but the board is > > > > holding the 5v now. How > > > > > > > could I verify functionality of PCB9. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also if I put one of the voice boards in > > > > with 4 CEM3310 missing can > > > > > > > I continue troubleshooting? Is there a > > > > chance I could get confidence > > > > > > > from a oscope or panel lights before I buy > > > > four CEMs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > "thirteentech" > > > > > > > <thirteentech@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Prophet 10 service manual shows that > > > > U603 is a +5V for rev. 1 > > > > > > > machines, or +12V for Rev. 0 machines. It > > > > looks like that supply is > > > > > > > for either a 5V > > > > > > > > cassette drive or a 12V wafer drive > > > > depending on which version of > > > > > > > machine you have, but the schematic also > > > > shows a note on the 5.6V > > > > > > > rail of the PSU > > > > > > > > saying: "To PCB 9, Rev 0, not used for Rev > > > > 1". So depending on > > > > > > > whether you have a Rev 0 or Rev 1, there > > > > will be different supplies > > > > > > > on P603 pins 2 and > > > > > > > > 3. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > "Frank Simon" > > > > > > > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Steve, > > > > > > > > > I have a manual I downloaded from > > > > paintingwithsound.com. It is > > > > > > > hard to read. I was a little disappointed > > > > when > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > >
2008-04-29 by thirteentech
Well, I can't guarantee that the machine will run OK without the sequencer, but it probably will, and is worth a try. I see one P10 for every dozen P5's that I service, so unfortunately I don't have a P10 in the shop to look at directly. As for service manuals, Sequential put out a large folder called the "Prophet Synthesizer and Polyphonic Sequencer System Technical Manual" which has the Prophet 5 REV 3.0, 3.1 and 3.2 service, programming guide and schematics, the Prophet 10 theory, schematics and parts list, and the Poly Sequencer theory and schematics, the Prophet 5 remote service and schematics, and update mod info for the Rev 3.3 update. much of the P10 section refers to the P5 schematics. The basic differences between a P10 and a Rev 3.x P5 are: The P10's master tune is digitized whereas the P5's is connected directly to the common analog circuit. The P10 also has 6k of PROM compared to the P5's 2k to allow it to scan the keys and controls better to keep scanning delays down to a maximum of 11ms. So if the machine is frozen, the best thing to do is to just start making sure that every CPU line looks like it is doing the right thing, and then move on to each device on the data bus and see if it's chip select input is working. If it is and you have gone through all of the basic troubleshooting that you would expect to do with a microprocessor circuit, and it all seems to be running, then take a look a the autotune circuitry, although this is unlikely as your TUNE led is not coming on. --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> > Steve, > Thanks. Are these diagnostics tribal knowledge or are they > documented in a manual. I do not hve the P10 manual. If I find one > will it give me diags. > > I have disconnected the Seq board so obviously your saying it will > run without it. Great. One system removed. I do have a z80 CPU to > swap out. > > I was thinking the record switch was a microswitch so to enable > would be a pull down or pull up Res on PCB. > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "thirteentech" > <thirteentech@> wrote: > > > > I am not certain what the P10's last OS revision was, the highest > that I have seen on a > > Prophet 5 is V9.3. Looking at the schematics of the 2 machines the > CPU board is similar, > > they do have different EPROM and NV RAM chips. Also the P 10 has > different scanning > > circuitry because it would have an unacceptable scan delay with 2 > keyboards as opposed > > to the P5's 1 keyboard, which has a maximum delay of 10 Ms. The > scanner also scans all of > > the buttons during each cycle. > > > > For what it's worth (not knowing if it also applies to the P-10), > to enter the CPU and RAM > > test on a late rev. Prophet 5, turn off the power, put the record > switch to "enabled", and > > jumper test point 304 (MEM TEST) to plus 5V, then turn on. The > machine starts > > sequentially flashing it's LED's, to then enter the memory test, > press TUNE. It runs through > > 4 tests, counting 1-4 as it does them, and finishes on 0, > indication no failures. If it stops > > on 1-4, it is indication a failure of either the scratchpad RAM, > NV RAM, PROM or 8253 > > timer (1,2,3 and 4). > > > > I haven't used these tests on a P10, so I don't know if they > apply, but otherwise maybe the > > best idea would be to disconnect the sequencer board and just > start the usual traditional > > checking of the main CPU lines to see if any of the data or > address lines are hung. > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > On Brd 3 there are three EPROMs with the Z80 CPU. The first > says: 0 TEN 5.0, second > > says: 1 TEN 5.0, third says: 2 TEN 5.0 on their stickers. > > > > > > On Brd 9 there is one EPROM with the Z80 CPU. The sticker on it > is not too legible what I > > do see is: SEQ (that part is clear) below it say C1 or C.1 or I > was thinking maybe 2.1( if > > upper half of 2 was missing). > > > > > > Both Z80s on pin 6 CLK have 2.5MHz clock at about 4v p-p. and 5v > dc on pin 11. Does > > the EPROM lose all programming if battery dies? If so how do you > reload? Will keyboard > > not boot without EPROM program. My friend today is bringing me a > Z80 CPU in so I can > > swap out. > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: thirteentech > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 7:47 AM > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was Hi > from a new member). > > > > > > > > > What is written on the stickers on the EPROMS? > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I don't know. How do I find this out. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Stephen Jones > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:14 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was > Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > Which Rev. Processor board do you have? All the Rev. > > > > 3.1 and 3.2 Prophet 5's have a built in memory test, > > > > and latest software versions also have a basic CPU > > > > test. Which software version do you have? > > > > > > > > --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > The TUNE LED does not come on. Since I am four > > > > > CEM3310s short, should certain slots be populated > > > > > just to get boot up? All the supplies are up. I am > > > > > suspicious of PCB9 due to the 12v applied and you > > > > > mentioned EQ board. There are a couple IC's that are > > > > > warm on the EQ board but not so hot I can't keep my > > > > > finger on it. Can you offer a couple key > > > > > troubleshooting spots for measurements to help me > > > > > isolate this? I'm assuming I have no way to bless > > > > > the Processor. All I have is an Oscope, function > > > > > generator, and multimeter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:21 AM > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 > > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you turn the machine on the front panel > > > > > should be dark with the exception of the > > > > > [TUNE] switch. The machine boots into it's > > > > > autotune mode and suppresses all of the front > > > > > panel lights and controls while it does so. it > > > > > should take 8-10 seconds if the machine is > > > > > functional, longer if voices are way out of > > > > > calibration. > > > > > > > > > > Does the TUNE button LED come on when you power > > > > > up? > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank > > > > > Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > I have all power supplies in order. There is > > > > > power to all boards. When I turn it on > > > > > shouldn't it boot up and LED's cycle on or blink > > > > > or even be switchable? The panel is dead. > > > > > Does this sound like processor to you? > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:07 AM > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 > > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each of the 5 voices on each voice board has two > > > > > CEM3310 envelope generators. One > > > > > > controls the volume envelope of the voice, and > > > > > the other controls the filter cutoff of > > > > > the > > > > > > voice if you bring up the filter envelope > > > > > modulation control. If the 3310's in the filter > > > > > > control line are faulty it should only manifest > > > > > when you turn on the filter envelope > > > > > > modulation. If this is off then the voice should > > > > > sound if the VCF cutoff pot is set open. > > > > > If > > > > > > you have bad 3310's in the VCA envelpoe > > > > > position, the voice won't sound. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am assuming that your P10 has Rev 3.x Prophet > > > > > 5 voice boards in it, because in the > > > > > > Sequential System Technical manual which covers > > > > > all Prophets from Rev 3.0-3.2, the > > > > > > Prophet 10 and the Poly Sequencer, they all use > > > > > the same basic voice board. So for > > > > > > instance, in Voice 1 of the voice board, U412 is > > > > > the amplifier envelope generator, and > > > > > > U417 is the filter envelope generator. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > > I am pleased to know there is a technique to > > > > > troube this with the bad ICs. I hope to > > > > > get > > > > > > to that point soon. If I remember there were no > > > > > LEDs on control panel lit when turned > > > > > on. > > > > > > Is there a local spot that isolates that > > > > > symptom? I haven't removed the top boards yet. > > > > > > Hopefully I can handle that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess I am confused on VCA and VCF envelope > > > > > positions. Can you give me a > > > > > > explanation of how to determine which state the > > > > > IC is in. > > > > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:04 PM > > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 > > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, if you have metered all of the power > > > > > supply rails in the machine, and are > > > > > satisfied > > > > > > > that they are all in spec, then go ahead and > > > > > put the voice boards back in. Remove the > > > > > > > known bad 3310's, and if any were in VCA > > > > > ENVELOPE positions, replace them with > > > > > > 3310's > > > > > > > from VCF ENVELOPE positions. This will allow > > > > > you to set up a patch with the VCF > > > > > > envelopes > > > > > > > control turned off and still have all of the > > > > > voices audible so that you can hear is all > > > > > the > > > > > > > voices are working. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The EQ board on P10's was another source of > > > > > problems too of you don't get any > > > > > > sound. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the sequencer board, the best way to > > > > > test functionality is to get the rest of the > > > > > > > machine basically playing and then just try > > > > > out the sequencer and see if it loads and > > > > > > plays > > > > > > > back notes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sounds like your power supply lines are the > > > > > most important issue, so as I mentioned, > > > > > > put > > > > > > > all your attention on them being correct > > > > > first. There are lots of CEM3310's in the > > > > > > machine, > > > > > > > so you can definately get the machine playing > > > > > without 4 of them, just make sure that > > > > > > there > > > > > > > are good chips in the VCA envelope positions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > "fsimon100" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > > > Thanks, obviously I have a Rev 1. My > > > > > schematic is a scanned copy and > > > > > > > > didn't see the note and still don't but I > > > > > know you are correct. What > > > > > > > > do you think I could have damaged with the > > > > > 12v I put in? Like I said > > > > > > > > U931 shorted and got hot. I know that may be > > > > > a tough question > > > > > > > > without personally probing but the board is > > > > > holding the 5v now. How > > > > > > > > could I verify functionality of PCB9. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also if I put one of the voice boards in > > > > > with 4 CEM3310 missing can > > > > > > > > I continue troubleshooting? Is there a > > > > > chance I could get confidence > > > > > > > > from a oscope or panel lights before I buy > > > > > four CEMs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > "thirteentech" > > > > > > > > <thirteentech@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Prophet 10 service manual shows that > > > > > U603 is a +5V for rev. 1 > > > > > > > > machines, or +12V for Rev. 0 machines. It > > > > > looks like that supply is > > > > > > > > for either a 5V > > > > > > > > > cassette drive or a 12V wafer drive > > > > > depending on which version of > > > > > > > > machine you have, but the schematic also > > > > > shows a note on the 5.6V > > > > > > > > rail of the PSU > > > > > > > > > saying: "To PCB 9, Rev 0, not used for Rev > > > > > 1". So depending on > > > > > > > > whether you have a Rev 0 or Rev 1, there > > > > > will be different supplies > > > > > > > > on P603 pins 2 and > > > > > > > > > 3. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > "Frank Simon" > > > > > > > > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Steve, > > > > > > > > > > I have a manual I downloaded from > > > > > paintingwithsound.com. It is > > > > > > > > hard to read. I was a little disappointed > > > > > when > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > > > > > >
2008-04-30 by fsimon100
Steve, I down loaded a P5 service manual. It is very helpful and much better print than the P10 schematic I have. I can now see the what you meant by the subtractive synthesis gated by the CEM3310. I just need to isolate why the control panel is dead. I have two LEDs light up when I power up but not everytime I power up. I know the CPU is good now. I'm thinking it has to be on the computer system and not the Analog or synth section. Would you agree. Thanks for your help and patience --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "thirteentech" <thirteentech@...> wrote: > > Well, I can't guarantee that the machine will run OK without the sequencer, but it probably will, and is > worth a try. I see one P10 for every dozen P5's that I service, so unfortunately I don't have a P10 in the > shop to look at directly. > > As for service manuals, Sequential put out a large folder called the "Prophet Synthesizer and > Polyphonic Sequencer System Technical Manual" which has the Prophet 5 REV 3.0, 3.1 and 3.2 service, > programming guide and schematics, the Prophet 10 theory, schematics and parts list, and the Poly > Sequencer theory and schematics, the Prophet 5 remote service and schematics, and update mod info > for the Rev 3.3 update. much of the P10 section refers to the P5 schematics. > > The basic differences between a P10 and a Rev 3.x P5 are: The P10's master tune is digitized whereas > the P5's is connected directly to the common analog circuit. The P10 also has 6k of PROM compared to > the P5's 2k to allow it to scan the keys and controls better to keep scanning delays down to a > maximum of 11ms. > > So if the machine is frozen, the best thing to do is to just start making sure that every CPU line looks > like it is doing the right thing, and then move on to each device on the data bus and see if it's chip > select input is working. If it is and you have gone through all of the basic troubleshooting that you > would expect to do with a microprocessor circuit, and it all seems to be running, then take a look a > the autotune circuitry, although this is unlikely as your TUNE led is not coming on. > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > Steve, > > Thanks. Are these diagnostics tribal knowledge or are they > > documented in a manual. I do not hve the P10 manual. If I find one > > will it give me diags. > > > > I have disconnected the Seq board so obviously your saying it will > > run without it. Great. One system removed. I do have a z80 CPU to > > swap out. > > > > I was thinking the record switch was a microswitch so to enable > > would be a pull down or pull up Res on PCB. > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "thirteentech" > > <thirteentech@> wrote: > > > > > > I am not certain what the P10's last OS revision was, the highest > > that I have seen on a > > > Prophet 5 is V9.3. Looking at the schematics of the 2 machines the > > CPU board is similar, > > > they do have different EPROM and NV RAM chips. Also the P 10 has > > different scanning > > > circuitry because it would have an unacceptable scan delay with 2 > > keyboards as opposed > > > to the P5's 1 keyboard, which has a maximum delay of 10 Ms. The > > scanner also scans all of > > > the buttons during each cycle. > > > > > > For what it's worth (not knowing if it also applies to the P- 10), > > to enter the CPU and RAM > > > test on a late rev. Prophet 5, turn off the power, put the record > > switch to "enabled", and > > > jumper test point 304 (MEM TEST) to plus 5V, then turn on. The > > machine starts > > > sequentially flashing it's LED's, to then enter the memory test, > > press TUNE. It runs through > > > 4 tests, counting 1-4 as it does them, and finishes on 0, > > indication no failures. If it stops > > > on 1-4, it is indication a failure of either the scratchpad RAM, > > NV RAM, PROM or 8253 > > > timer (1,2,3 and 4). > > > > > > I haven't used these tests on a P10, so I don't know if they > > apply, but otherwise maybe the > > > best idea would be to disconnect the sequencer board and just > > start the usual traditional > > > checking of the main CPU lines to see if any of the data or > > address lines are hung. > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" > > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Brd 3 there are three EPROMs with the Z80 CPU. The first > > says: 0 TEN 5.0, second > > > says: 1 TEN 5.0, third says: 2 TEN 5.0 on their stickers. > > > > > > > > On Brd 9 there is one EPROM with the Z80 CPU. The sticker on it > > is not too legible what I > > > do see is: SEQ (that part is clear) below it say C1 or C.1 or I > > was thinking maybe 2.1( if > > > upper half of 2 was missing). > > > > > > > > Both Z80s on pin 6 CLK have 2.5MHz clock at about 4v p-p. and 5v > > dc on pin 11. Does > > > the EPROM lose all programming if battery dies? If so how do you > > reload? Will keyboard > > > not boot without EPROM program. My friend today is bringing me a > > Z80 CPU in so I can > > > swap out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 7:47 AM > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was Hi > > from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > What is written on the stickers on the EPROMS? > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" > > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I don't know. How do I find this out. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Stephen Jones > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:14 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was > > Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which Rev. Processor board do you have? All the Rev. > > > > > 3.1 and 3.2 Prophet 5's have a built in memory test, > > > > > and latest software versions also have a basic CPU > > > > > test. Which software version do you have? > > > > > > > > > > --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > The TUNE LED does not come on. Since I am four > > > > > > CEM3310s short, should certain slots be populated > > > > > > just to get boot up? All the supplies are up. I am > > > > > > suspicious of PCB9 due to the 12v applied and you > > > > > > mentioned EQ board. There are a couple IC's that are > > > > > > warm on the EQ board but not so hot I can't keep my > > > > > > finger on it. Can you offer a couple key > > > > > > troubleshooting spots for measurements to help me > > > > > > isolate this? I'm assuming I have no way to bless > > > > > > the Processor. All I have is an Oscope, function > > > > > > generator, and multimeter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:21 AM > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 > > > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you turn the machine on the front panel > > > > > > should be dark with the exception of the > > > > > > [TUNE] switch. The machine boots into it's > > > > > > autotune mode and suppresses all of the front > > > > > > panel lights and controls while it does so. it > > > > > > should take 8-10 seconds if the machine is > > > > > > functional, longer if voices are way out of > > > > > > calibration. > > > > > > > > > > > > Does the TUNE button LED come on when you power > > > > > > up? > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank > > > > > > Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > > I have all power supplies in order. There is > > > > > > power to all boards. When I turn it on > > > > > > shouldn't it boot up and LED's cycle on or blink > > > > > > or even be switchable? The panel is dead. > > > > > > Does this sound like processor to you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:07 AM > > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 > > > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each of the 5 voices on each voice board has two > > > > > > CEM3310 envelope generators. One > > > > > > > controls the volume envelope of the voice, and > > > > > > the other controls the filter cutoff of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > voice if you bring up the filter envelope > > > > > > modulation control. If the 3310's in the filter > > > > > > > control line are faulty it should only manifest > > > > > > when you turn on the filter envelope > > > > > > > modulation. If this is off then the voice should > > > > > > sound if the VCF cutoff pot is set open. > > > > > > If > > > > > > > you have bad 3310's in the VCA envelpoe > > > > > > position, the voice won't sound. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am assuming that your P10 has Rev 3.x Prophet > > > > > > 5 voice boards in it, because in the > > > > > > > Sequential System Technical manual which covers > > > > > > all Prophets from Rev 3.0-3.2, the > > > > > > > Prophet 10 and the Poly Sequencer, they all use > > > > > > the same basic voice board. So for > > > > > > > instance, in Voice 1 of the voice board, U412 is > > > > > > the amplifier envelope generator, and > > > > > > > U417 is the filter envelope generator. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > > "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > > > I am pleased to know there is a technique to > > > > > > troube this with the bad ICs. I hope to > > > > > > get > > > > > > > to that point soon. If I remember there were no > > > > > > LEDs on control panel lit when turned > > > > > > on. > > > > > > > Is there a local spot that isolates that > > > > > > symptom? I haven't removed the top boards yet. > > > > > > > Hopefully I can handle that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess I am confused on VCA and VCF envelope > > > > > > positions. Can you give me a > > > > > > > explanation of how to determine which state the > > > > > > IC is in. > > > > > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:04 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 > > > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, if you have metered all of the power > > > > > > supply rails in the machine, and are > > > > > > satisfied > > > > > > > > that they are all in spec, then go ahead and > > > > > > put the voice boards back in. Remove the > > > > > > > > known bad 3310's, and if any were in VCA > > > > > > ENVELOPE positions, replace them with > > > > > > > 3310's > > > > > > > > from VCF ENVELOPE positions. This will allow > > > > > > you to set up a patch with the VCF > > > > > > > envelopes > > > > > > > > control turned off and still have all of the > > > > > > voices audible so that you can hear is all > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > voices are working. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The EQ board on P10's was another source of > > > > > > problems too of you don't get any > > > > > > > sound. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the sequencer board, the best way to > > > > > > test functionality is to get the rest of the > > > > > > > > machine basically playing and then just try > > > > > > out the sequencer and see if it loads and > > > > > > > plays > > > > > > > > back notes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sounds like your power supply lines are the > > > > > > most important issue, so as I mentioned, > > > > > > > put > > > > > > > > all your attention on them being correct > > > > > > first. There are lots of CEM3310's in the > > > > > > > machine, > > > > > > > > so you can definately get the machine playing > > > > > > without 4 of them, just make sure that > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > are good chips in the VCA envelope positions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > > "fsimon100" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > > > > Thanks, obviously I have a Rev 1. My > > > > > > schematic is a scanned copy and > > > > > > > > > didn't see the note and still don't but I > > > > > > know you are correct. What > > > > > > > > > do you think I could have damaged with the > > > > > > 12v I put in? Like I said > > > > > > > > > U931 shorted and got hot. I know that may be > > > > > > a tough question > > > > > > > > > without personally probing but the board is > > > > > > holding the 5v now. How > > > > > > > > > could I verify functionality of PCB9. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also if I put one of the voice boards in > > > > > > with 4 CEM3310 missing can > > > > > > > > > I continue troubleshooting? Is there a > > > > > > chance I could get confidence > > > > > > > > > from a oscope or panel lights before I buy > > > > > > four CEMs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > > "thirteentech" > > > > > > > > > <thirteentech@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Prophet 10 service manual shows that > > > > > > U603 is a +5V for rev. 1 > > > > > > > > > machines, or +12V for Rev. 0 machines. It > > > > > > looks like that supply is > > > > > > > > > for either a 5V > > > > > > > > > > cassette drive or a 12V wafer drive > > > > > > depending on which version of > > > > > > > > > machine you have, but the schematic also > > > > > > shows a note on the 5.6V > > > > > > > > > rail of the PSU > > > > > > > > > > saying: "To PCB 9, Rev 0, not used for Rev > > > > > > 1". So depending on > > > > > > > > > whether you have a Rev 0 or Rev 1, there > > > > > > will be different supplies > > > > > > > > > on P603 pins 2 and > > > > > > > > > > 3. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > > "Frank Simon" > > > > > > > > > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Steve, > > > > > > > > > > > I have a manual I downloaded from > > > > > > paintingwithsound.com. It is > > > > > > > > > hard to read. I was a little disappointed > > > > > > when > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________
> > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
2008-04-30 by fsimon100
Steve, I down loaded a P5 service manual. It is very helpful and much better print than the P10 schematic I have. I can now see the what you meant by the subtractive synthesis gated by the CEM3310. I just need to isolate why the control panel is dead. I have two LEDs light up when I power up but not everytime I power up. I know the CPU is good now. I'm thinking it has to be on the computer system and not the Analog or synth section. Would you agree. Thanks for your help and patience --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "thirteentech" <thirteentech@...> wrote: > > Well, I can't guarantee that the machine will run OK without the sequencer, but it probably will, and is > worth a try. I see one P10 for every dozen P5's that I service, so unfortunately I don't have a P10 in the > shop to look at directly. > > As for service manuals, Sequential put out a large folder called the "Prophet Synthesizer and > Polyphonic Sequencer System Technical Manual" which has the Prophet 5 REV 3.0, 3.1 and 3.2 service, > programming guide and schematics, the Prophet 10 theory, schematics and parts list, and the Poly > Sequencer theory and schematics, the Prophet 5 remote service and schematics, and update mod info > for the Rev 3.3 update. much of the P10 section refers to the P5 schematics. > > The basic differences between a P10 and a Rev 3.x P5 are: The P10's master tune is digitized whereas > the P5's is connected directly to the common analog circuit. The P10 also has 6k of PROM compared to > the P5's 2k to allow it to scan the keys and controls better to keep scanning delays down to a > maximum of 11ms. > > So if the machine is frozen, the best thing to do is to just start making sure that every CPU line looks > like it is doing the right thing, and then move on to each device on the data bus and see if it's chip > select input is working. If it is and you have gone through all of the basic troubleshooting that you > would expect to do with a microprocessor circuit, and it all seems to be running, then take a look a > the autotune circuitry, although this is unlikely as your TUNE led is not coming on. > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > Steve, > > Thanks. Are these diagnostics tribal knowledge or are they > > documented in a manual. I do not hve the P10 manual. If I find one > > will it give me diags. > > > > I have disconnected the Seq board so obviously your saying it will > > run without it. Great. One system removed. I do have a z80 CPU to > > swap out. > > > > I was thinking the record switch was a microswitch so to enable > > would be a pull down or pull up Res on PCB. > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "thirteentech" > > <thirteentech@> wrote: > > > > > > I am not certain what the P10's last OS revision was, the highest > > that I have seen on a > > > Prophet 5 is V9.3. Looking at the schematics of the 2 machines the > > CPU board is similar, > > > they do have different EPROM and NV RAM chips. Also the P 10 has > > different scanning > > > circuitry because it would have an unacceptable scan delay with 2 > > keyboards as opposed > > > to the P5's 1 keyboard, which has a maximum delay of 10 Ms. The > > scanner also scans all of > > > the buttons during each cycle. > > > > > > For what it's worth (not knowing if it also applies to the P- 10), > > to enter the CPU and RAM > > > test on a late rev. Prophet 5, turn off the power, put the record > > switch to "enabled", and > > > jumper test point 304 (MEM TEST) to plus 5V, then turn on. The > > machine starts > > > sequentially flashing it's LED's, to then enter the memory test, > > press TUNE. It runs through > > > 4 tests, counting 1-4 as it does them, and finishes on 0, > > indication no failures. If it stops > > > on 1-4, it is indication a failure of either the scratchpad RAM, > > NV RAM, PROM or 8253 > > > timer (1,2,3 and 4). > > > > > > I haven't used these tests on a P10, so I don't know if they > > apply, but otherwise maybe the > > > best idea would be to disconnect the sequencer board and just > > start the usual traditional > > > checking of the main CPU lines to see if any of the data or > > address lines are hung. > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" > > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Brd 3 there are three EPROMs with the Z80 CPU. The first > > says: 0 TEN 5.0, second > > > says: 1 TEN 5.0, third says: 2 TEN 5.0 on their stickers. > > > > > > > > On Brd 9 there is one EPROM with the Z80 CPU. The sticker on it > > is not too legible what I > > > do see is: SEQ (that part is clear) below it say C1 or C.1 or I > > was thinking maybe 2.1( if > > > upper half of 2 was missing). > > > > > > > > Both Z80s on pin 6 CLK have 2.5MHz clock at about 4v p-p. and 5v > > dc on pin 11. Does > > > the EPROM lose all programming if battery dies? If so how do you > > reload? Will keyboard > > > not boot without EPROM program. My friend today is bringing me a > > Z80 CPU in so I can > > > swap out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 7:47 AM > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was Hi > > from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > What is written on the stickers on the EPROMS? > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" > > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I don't know. How do I find this out. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Stephen Jones > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:14 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was > > Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which Rev. Processor board do you have? All the Rev. > > > > > 3.1 and 3.2 Prophet 5's have a built in memory test, > > > > > and latest software versions also have a basic CPU > > > > > test. Which software version do you have? > > > > > > > > > > --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > The TUNE LED does not come on. Since I am four > > > > > > CEM3310s short, should certain slots be populated > > > > > > just to get boot up? All the supplies are up. I am > > > > > > suspicious of PCB9 due to the 12v applied and you > > > > > > mentioned EQ board. There are a couple IC's that are > > > > > > warm on the EQ board but not so hot I can't keep my > > > > > > finger on it. Can you offer a couple key > > > > > > troubleshooting spots for measurements to help me > > > > > > isolate this? I'm assuming I have no way to bless > > > > > > the Processor. All I have is an Oscope, function > > > > > > generator, and multimeter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:21 AM > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 > > > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you turn the machine on the front panel > > > > > > should be dark with the exception of the > > > > > > [TUNE] switch. The machine boots into it's > > > > > > autotune mode and suppresses all of the front > > > > > > panel lights and controls while it does so. it > > > > > > should take 8-10 seconds if the machine is > > > > > > functional, longer if voices are way out of > > > > > > calibration. > > > > > > > > > > > > Does the TUNE button LED come on when you power > > > > > > up? > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank > > > > > > Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > > I have all power supplies in order. There is > > > > > > power to all boards. When I turn it on > > > > > > shouldn't it boot up and LED's cycle on or blink > > > > > > or even be switchable? The panel is dead. > > > > > > Does this sound like processor to you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:07 AM > > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 > > > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each of the 5 voices on each voice board has two > > > > > > CEM3310 envelope generators. One > > > > > > > controls the volume envelope of the voice, and > > > > > > the other controls the filter cutoff of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > voice if you bring up the filter envelope > > > > > > modulation control. If the 3310's in the filter > > > > > > > control line are faulty it should only manifest > > > > > > when you turn on the filter envelope > > > > > > > modulation. If this is off then the voice should > > > > > > sound if the VCF cutoff pot is set open. > > > > > > If > > > > > > > you have bad 3310's in the VCA envelpoe > > > > > > position, the voice won't sound. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am assuming that your P10 has Rev 3.x Prophet > > > > > > 5 voice boards in it, because in the > > > > > > > Sequential System Technical manual which covers > > > > > > all Prophets from Rev 3.0-3.2, the > > > > > > > Prophet 10 and the Poly Sequencer, they all use > > > > > > the same basic voice board. So for > > > > > > > instance, in Voice 1 of the voice board, U412 is > > > > > > the amplifier envelope generator, and > > > > > > > U417 is the filter envelope generator. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > > "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > > > I am pleased to know there is a technique to > > > > > > troube this with the bad ICs. I hope to > > > > > > get > > > > > > > to that point soon. If I remember there were no > > > > > > LEDs on control panel lit when turned > > > > > > on. > > > > > > > Is there a local spot that isolates that > > > > > > symptom? I haven't removed the top boards yet. > > > > > > > Hopefully I can handle that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess I am confused on VCA and VCF envelope > > > > > > positions. Can you give me a > > > > > > > explanation of how to determine which state the > > > > > > IC is in. > > > > > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:04 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 > > > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, if you have metered all of the power > > > > > > supply rails in the machine, and are > > > > > > satisfied > > > > > > > > that they are all in spec, then go ahead and > > > > > > put the voice boards back in. Remove the > > > > > > > > known bad 3310's, and if any were in VCA > > > > > > ENVELOPE positions, replace them with > > > > > > > 3310's > > > > > > > > from VCF ENVELOPE positions. This will allow > > > > > > you to set up a patch with the VCF > > > > > > > envelopes > > > > > > > > control turned off and still have all of the > > > > > > voices audible so that you can hear is all > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > voices are working. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The EQ board on P10's was another source of > > > > > > problems too of you don't get any > > > > > > > sound. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the sequencer board, the best way to > > > > > > test functionality is to get the rest of the > > > > > > > > machine basically playing and then just try > > > > > > out the sequencer and see if it loads and > > > > > > > plays > > > > > > > > back notes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sounds like your power supply lines are the > > > > > > most important issue, so as I mentioned, > > > > > > > put > > > > > > > > all your attention on them being correct > > > > > > first. There are lots of CEM3310's in the > > > > > > > machine, > > > > > > > > so you can definately get the machine playing > > > > > > without 4 of them, just make sure that > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > are good chips in the VCA envelope positions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > > "fsimon100" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > > > > Thanks, obviously I have a Rev 1. My > > > > > > schematic is a scanned copy and > > > > > > > > > didn't see the note and still don't but I > > > > > > know you are correct. What > > > > > > > > > do you think I could have damaged with the > > > > > > 12v I put in? Like I said > > > > > > > > > U931 shorted and got hot. I know that may be > > > > > > a tough question > > > > > > > > > without personally probing but the board is > > > > > > holding the 5v now. How > > > > > > > > > could I verify functionality of PCB9. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also if I put one of the voice boards in > > > > > > with 4 CEM3310 missing can > > > > > > > > > I continue troubleshooting? Is there a > > > > > > chance I could get confidence > > > > > > > > > from a oscope or panel lights before I buy > > > > > > four CEMs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > > "thirteentech" > > > > > > > > > <thirteentech@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Prophet 10 service manual shows that > > > > > > U603 is a +5V for rev. 1 > > > > > > > > > machines, or +12V for Rev. 0 machines. It > > > > > > looks like that supply is > > > > > > > > > for either a 5V > > > > > > > > > > cassette drive or a 12V wafer drive > > > > > > depending on which version of > > > > > > > > > machine you have, but the schematic also > > > > > > shows a note on the 5.6V > > > > > > > > > rail of the PSU > > > > > > > > > > saying: "To PCB 9, Rev 0, not used for Rev > > > > > > 1". So depending on > > > > > > > > > whether you have a Rev 0 or Rev 1, there > > > > > > will be different supplies > > > > > > > > > on P603 pins 2 and > > > > > > > > > > 3. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > > "Frank Simon" > > > > > > > > > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Steve, > > > > > > > > > > > I have a manual I downloaded from > > > > > > paintingwithsound.com. It is > > > > > > > > > hard to read. I was a little disappointed > > > > > > when > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________
> > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
2008-04-30 by thirteentech
Yes, it sounds like your computer is not running, and you are getting random LED's when you power up. Do you have an oscilloscope and any experience troubleshooting microprocessors? If not, you will need someone who can I think. --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> > Steve, > I down loaded a P5 service manual. It is very helpful and much > better print than the P10 schematic I have. I can now see the what > you meant by the subtractive synthesis gated by the CEM3310. I just > need to isolate why the control panel is dead. I have two LEDs light > up when I power up but not everytime I power up. I know the CPU is > good now. I'm thinking it has to be on the computer system and not > the Analog or synth section. Would you agree. Thanks for your help > and patience > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "thirteentech" > <thirteentech@> wrote: > > > > Well, I can't guarantee that the machine will run OK without the > sequencer, but it probably will, and is > > worth a try. I see one P10 for every dozen P5's that I service, so > unfortunately I don't have a P10 in the > > shop to look at directly. > > > > As for service manuals, Sequential put out a large folder called > the "Prophet Synthesizer and > > Polyphonic Sequencer System Technical Manual" which has the > Prophet 5 REV 3.0, 3.1 and 3.2 service, > > programming guide and schematics, the Prophet 10 theory, > schematics and parts list, and the Poly > > Sequencer theory and schematics, the Prophet 5 remote service and > schematics, and update mod info > > for the Rev 3.3 update. much of the P10 section refers to the P5 > schematics. > > > > The basic differences between a P10 and a Rev 3.x P5 are: The > P10's master tune is digitized whereas > > the P5's is connected directly to the common analog circuit. The > P10 also has 6k of PROM compared to > > the P5's 2k to allow it to scan the keys and controls better to > keep scanning delays down to a > > maximum of 11ms. > > > > So if the machine is frozen, the best thing to do is to just start > making sure that every CPU line looks > > like it is doing the right thing, and then move on to each device > on the data bus and see if it's chip > > select input is working. If it is and you have gone through all of > the basic troubleshooting that you > > would expect to do with a microprocessor circuit, and it all seems > to be running, then take a look a > > the autotune circuitry, although this is unlikely as your TUNE led > is not coming on. > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > Steve, > > > Thanks. Are these diagnostics tribal knowledge or are they > > > documented in a manual. I do not hve the P10 manual. If I find > one > > > will it give me diags. > > > > > > I have disconnected the Seq board so obviously your saying it > will > > > run without it. Great. One system removed. I do have a z80 CPU > to > > > swap out. > > > > > > I was thinking the record switch was a microswitch so to enable > > > would be a pull down or pull up Res on PCB. > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "thirteentech" > > > <thirteentech@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I am not certain what the P10's last OS revision was, the > highest > > > that I have seen on a > > > > Prophet 5 is V9.3. Looking at the schematics of the 2 machines > the > > > CPU board is similar, > > > > they do have different EPROM and NV RAM chips. Also the P 10 > has > > > different scanning > > > > circuitry because it would have an unacceptable scan delay > with 2 > > > keyboards as opposed > > > > to the P5's 1 keyboard, which has a maximum delay of 10 Ms. > The > > > scanner also scans all of > > > > the buttons during each cycle. > > > > > > > > For what it's worth (not knowing if it also applies to the P- > 10), > > > to enter the CPU and RAM > > > > test on a late rev. Prophet 5, turn off the power, put the > record > > > switch to "enabled", and > > > > jumper test point 304 (MEM TEST) to plus 5V, then turn on. The > > > machine starts > > > > sequentially flashing it's LED's, to then enter the memory > test, > > > press TUNE. It runs through > > > > 4 tests, counting 1-4 as it does them, and finishes on 0, > > > indication no failures. If it stops > > > > on 1-4, it is indication a failure of either the scratchpad > RAM, > > > NV RAM, PROM or 8253 > > > > timer (1,2,3 and 4). > > > > > > > > I haven't used these tests on a P10, so I don't know if they > > > apply, but otherwise maybe the > > > > best idea would be to disconnect the sequencer board and just > > > start the usual traditional > > > > checking of the main CPU lines to see if any of the data or > > > address lines are hung. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" > > > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Brd 3 there are three EPROMs with the Z80 CPU. The first > > > says: 0 TEN 5.0, second > > > > says: 1 TEN 5.0, third says: 2 TEN 5.0 on their stickers. > > > > > > > > > > On Brd 9 there is one EPROM with the Z80 CPU. The sticker on > it > > > is not too legible what I > > > > do see is: SEQ (that part is clear) below it say C1 or C.1 or > I > > > was thinking maybe 2.1( if > > > > upper half of 2 was missing). > > > > > > > > > > Both Z80s on pin 6 CLK have 2.5MHz clock at about 4v p-p. > and 5v > > > dc on pin 11. Does > > > > the EPROM lose all programming if battery dies? If so how do > you > > > reload? Will keyboard > > > > not boot without EPROM program. My friend today is bringing me > a > > > Z80 CPU in so I can > > > > swap out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 7:47 AM > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was > Hi > > > from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is written on the stickers on the EPROMS? > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" > > > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know. How do I find this out. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Stephen Jones > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:14 AM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair > (was > > > Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which Rev. Processor board do you have? All the Rev. > > > > > > 3.1 and 3.2 Prophet 5's have a built in memory test, > > > > > > and latest software versions also have a basic CPU > > > > > > test. Which software version do you have? > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > > The TUNE LED does not come on. Since I am four > > > > > > > CEM3310s short, should certain slots be populated > > > > > > > just to get boot up? All the supplies are up. I am > > > > > > > suspicious of PCB9 due to the 12v applied and you > > > > > > > mentioned EQ board. There are a couple IC's that are > > > > > > > warm on the EQ board but not so hot I can't keep my > > > > > > > finger on it. Can you offer a couple key > > > > > > > troubleshooting spots for measurements to help me > > > > > > > isolate this? I'm assuming I have no way to bless > > > > > > > the Processor. All I have is an Oscope, function > > > > > > > generator, and multimeter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:21 AM > > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 > > > > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you turn the machine on the front panel > > > > > > > should be dark with the exception of the > > > > > > > [TUNE] switch. The machine boots into it's > > > > > > > autotune mode and suppresses all of the front > > > > > > > panel lights and controls while it does so. it > > > > > > > should take 8-10 seconds if the machine is > > > > > > > functional, longer if voices are way out of > > > > > > > calibration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does the TUNE button LED come on when you power > > > > > > > up? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank > > > > > > > Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > > > I have all power supplies in order. There is > > > > > > > power to all boards. When I turn it on > > > > > > > shouldn't it boot up and LED's cycle on or blink > > > > > > > or even be switchable? The panel is dead. > > > > > > > Does this sound like processor to you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:07 AM > > > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 > > > > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each of the 5 voices on each voice board has two > > > > > > > CEM3310 envelope generators. One > > > > > > > > controls the volume envelope of the voice, and > > > > > > > the other controls the filter cutoff of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > voice if you bring up the filter envelope > > > > > > > modulation control. If the 3310's in the filter > > > > > > > > control line are faulty it should only manifest > > > > > > > when you turn on the filter envelope > > > > > > > > modulation. If this is off then the voice should > > > > > > > sound if the VCF cutoff pot is set open. > > > > > > > If > > > > > > > > you have bad 3310's in the VCA envelpoe > > > > > > > position, the voice won't sound. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am assuming that your P10 has Rev 3.x Prophet > > > > > > > 5 voice boards in it, because in the > > > > > > > > Sequential System Technical manual which covers > > > > > > > all Prophets from Rev 3.0-3.2, the > > > > > > > > Prophet 10 and the Poly Sequencer, they all use > > > > > > > the same basic voice board. So for > > > > > > > > instance, in Voice 1 of the voice board, U412 is > > > > > > > the amplifier envelope generator, and > > > > > > > > U417 is the filter envelope generator. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > > > "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > > > > I am pleased to know there is a technique to > > > > > > > troube this with the bad ICs. I hope to > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > to that point soon. If I remember there were no > > > > > > > LEDs on control panel lit when turned > > > > > > > on. > > > > > > > > Is there a local spot that isolates that > > > > > > > symptom? I haven't removed the top boards yet. > > > > > > > > Hopefully I can handle that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess I am confused on VCA and VCF envelope > > > > > > > positions. Can you give me a > > > > > > > > explanation of how to determine which state the > > > > > > > IC is in. > > > > > > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:04 PM > > > > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 > > > > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, if you have metered all of the power > > > > > > > supply rails in the machine, and are > > > > > > > satisfied > > > > > > > > > that they are all in spec, then go ahead and > > > > > > > put the voice boards back in. Remove the > > > > > > > > > known bad 3310's, and if any were in VCA > > > > > > > ENVELOPE positions, replace them with > > > > > > > > 3310's > > > > > > > > > from VCF ENVELOPE positions. This will allow > > > > > > > you to set up a patch with the VCF > > > > > > > > envelopes > > > > > > > > > control turned off and still have all of the > > > > > > > voices audible so that you can hear is all > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > voices are working. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The EQ board on P10's was another source of > > > > > > > problems too of you don't get any > > > > > > > > sound. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the sequencer board, the best way to > > > > > > > test functionality is to get the rest of the > > > > > > > > > machine basically playing and then just try > > > > > > > out the sequencer and see if it loads and > > > > > > > > plays > > > > > > > > > back notes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sounds like your power supply lines are the > > > > > > > most important issue, so as I mentioned, > > > > > > > > put > > > > > > > > > all your attention on them being correct > > > > > > > first. There are lots of CEM3310's in the > > > > > > > > machine, > > > > > > > > > so you can definately get the machine playing > > > > > > > without 4 of them, just make sure that > > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > are good chips in the VCA envelope positions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > > > "fsimon100" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, obviously I have a Rev 1. My > > > > > > > schematic is a scanned copy and > > > > > > > > > > didn't see the note and still don't but I > > > > > > > know you are correct. What > > > > > > > > > > do you think I could have damaged with the > > > > > > > 12v I put in? Like I said > > > > > > > > > > U931 shorted and got hot. I know that may be > > > > > > > a tough question > > > > > > > > > > without personally probing but the board is > > > > > > > holding the 5v now. How > > > > > > > > > > could I verify functionality of PCB9. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also if I put one of the voice boards in > > > > > > > with 4 CEM3310 missing can > > > > > > > > > > I continue troubleshooting? Is there a > > > > > > > chance I could get confidence > > > > > > > > > > from a oscope or panel lights before I buy > > > > > > > four CEMs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > > > "thirteentech" > > > > > > > > > > <thirteentech@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Prophet 10 service manual shows that > > > > > > > U603 is a +5V for rev. 1 > > > > > > > > > > machines, or +12V for Rev. 0 machines. It > > > > > > > looks like that supply is > > > > > > > > > > for either a 5V > > > > > > > > > > > cassette drive or a 12V wafer drive > > > > > > > depending on which version of > > > > > > > > > > machine you have, but the schematic also > > > > > > > shows a note on the 5.6V > > > > > > > > > > rail of the PSU > > > > > > > > > > > saying: "To PCB 9, Rev 0, not used for Rev > > > > > > > 1". So depending on > > > > > > > > > > whether you have a Rev 0 or Rev 1, there > > > > > > > will be different supplies > > > > > > > > > > on P603 pins 2 and > > > > > > > > > > > 3. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > > > "Frank Simon" > > > > > > > > > > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Steve, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a manual I downloaded from > > > > > > > paintingwithsound.com. It is > > > > > > > > > > hard to read. I was a little disappointed > > > > > > > when > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > > > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
2008-04-30 by Philip
Not being funny but I think we said this like 3 weeks
ago....I repeated it too a few days ago.
He has a problem in the digital domain that's plain to
see....but from the kind of things he's said he needs
to read some books on that kind of stuff, do a bit of
research etc otherwise it's stabbing in the dark time.
Ok carry on I'll shut up now :)
--- thirteentech <thirteentech@...> wrote:
> Yes, it sounds like your computer is not running,
> and you are getting random LED's when
> you power up. Do you have an oscilloscope and any
> experience troubleshooting
> microprocessors? If not, you will need someone who
> can I think.
>
> --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "fsimon100" <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> >
> > Steve,
> > I down loaded a P5 service manual. It is very
> helpful and much
> > better print than the P10 schematic I have. I can
> now see the what
> > you meant by the subtractive synthesis gated by
> the CEM3310. I just
> > need to isolate why the control panel is dead. I
> have two LEDs light
> > up when I power up but not everytime I power up. I
> know the CPU is
> > good now. I'm thinking it has to be on the
> computer system and not
> > the Analog or synth section. Would you agree.
> Thanks for your help
> > and patience
> >
> >
> > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "thirteentech"
> > <thirteentech@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Well, I can't guarantee that the machine will
> run OK without the
> > sequencer, but it probably will, and is
> > > worth a try. I see one P10 for every dozen P5's
> that I service, so
> > unfortunately I don't have a P10 in the
> > > shop to look at directly.
> > >
> > > As for service manuals, Sequential put out a
> large folder called
> > the "Prophet Synthesizer and
> > > Polyphonic Sequencer System Technical Manual"
> which has the
> > Prophet 5 REV 3.0, 3.1 and 3.2 service,
> > > programming guide and schematics, the Prophet 10
> theory,
> > schematics and parts list, and the Poly
> > > Sequencer theory and schematics, the Prophet 5
> remote service and
> > schematics, and update mod info
> > > for the Rev 3.3 update. much of the P10 section
> refers to the P5
> > schematics.
> > >
> > > The basic differences between a P10 and a Rev
> 3.x P5 are: The
> > P10's master tune is digitized whereas
> > > the P5's is connected directly to the common
> analog circuit. The
> > P10 also has 6k of PROM compared to
> > > the P5's 2k to allow it to scan the keys and
> controls better to
> > keep scanning delays down to a
> > > maximum of 11ms.
> > >
> > > So if the machine is frozen, the best thing to
> do is to just start
> > making sure that every CPU line looks
> > > like it is doing the right thing, and then move
> on to each device
> > on the data bus and see if it's chip
> > > select input is working. If it is and you have
> gone through all of
> > the basic troubleshooting that you
> > > would expect to do with a microprocessor
> circuit, and it all seems
> > to be running, then take a look a
> > > the autotune circuitry, although this is
> unlikely as your TUNE led
> > is not coming on.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "fsimon100"
> > <fsimon001@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Steve,
> > > > Thanks. Are these diagnostics tribal knowledge
> or are they
> > > > documented in a manual. I do not hve the P10
> manual. If I find
> > one
> > > > will it give me diags.
> > > >
> > > > I have disconnected the Seq board so obviously
> your saying it
> > will
> > > > run without it. Great. One system removed. I
> do have a z80 CPU
> > to
> > > > swap out.
> > > >
> > > > I was thinking the record switch was a
> microswitch so to enable
> > > > would be a pull down or pull up Res on PCB.
> > > >
> > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "thirteentech"
> > > > <thirteentech@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I am not certain what the P10's last OS
> revision was, the
> > highest
> > > > that I have seen on a
> > > > > Prophet 5 is V9.3. Looking at the schematics
> of the 2 machines
> > the
> > > > CPU board is similar,
> > > > > they do have different EPROM and NV RAM
> chips. Also the P 10
> > has
> > > > different scanning
> > > > > circuitry because it would have an
> unacceptable scan delay
> > with 2
> > > > keyboards as opposed
> > > > > to the P5's 1 keyboard, which has a maximum
> delay of 10 Ms.
> > The
> > > > scanner also scans all of
> > > > > the buttons during each cycle.
> > > > >
> > > > > For what it's worth (not knowing if it also
> applies to the P-
> > 10),
> > > > to enter the CPU and RAM
> > > > > test on a late rev. Prophet 5, turn off the
> power, put the
> > record
> > > > switch to "enabled", and
> > > > > jumper test point 304 (MEM TEST) to plus 5V,
> then turn on. The
> > > > machine starts
> > > > > sequentially flashing it's LED's, to then
> enter the memory
> > test,
> > > > press TUNE. It runs through
> > > > > 4 tests, counting 1-4 as it does them, and
> finishes on 0,
> > > > indication no failures. If it stops
> > > > > on 1-4, it is indication a failure of either
> the scratchpad
> > RAM,
> > > > NV RAM, PROM or 8253
> > > > > timer (1,2,3 and 4).
> > > > >
> > > > > I haven't used these tests on a P10, so I
> don't know if they
> > > > apply, but otherwise maybe the
> > > > > best idea would be to disconnect the
> sequencer board and just
> > > > start the usual traditional
> > > > > checking of the main CPU lines to see if any
> of the data or
> > > > address lines are hung.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "Frank Simon"
> > > > <fsimon001@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Brd 3 there are three EPROMs with the
> Z80 CPU. The first
> > > > says: 0 TEN 5.0, second
> > > > > says: 1 TEN 5.0, third says: 2 TEN 5.0 on
> their stickers.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Brd 9 there is one EPROM with the Z80
> CPU. The sticker on
> > it
> > > > is not too legible what I
> > > > > do see is: SEQ (that part is clear) below it
> say C1 or C.1 or
> > I
> > > > was thinking maybe 2.1( if
> > > > > upper half of 2 was missing).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Both Z80s on pin 6 CLK have 2.5MHz clock
> at about 4v p-p.
> > and 5v
> > > > dc on pin 11. Does
> > > > > the EPROM lose all programming if battery
> dies? If so how do
> > you
> > > > reload? Will keyboard
> > > > > not boot without EPROM program. My friend
> today is bringing me
> > a
> > > > Z80 CPU in so I can
>
=== message truncated ===
___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! For Good. Give and get cool things for free, reduce waste and help our planet. Plus find hidden Yahoo! treasure
http://green.yahoo.com/uk/earth-day/2008-05-01 by Frank Simon
----- Original Message -----From: PhilipSent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 6:18 PMSubject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repairNot being funny but I think we said this like 3 weeks
ago....I repeated it too a few days ago.
He has a problem in the digital domain that's plain to
see....but from the kind of things he's said he needs
to read some books on that kind of stuff, do a bit of
research etc otherwise it's stabbing in the dark time.
Ok carry on I'll shut up now :)
--- thirteentech <thirteentech@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Yes, it sounds like your computer is not running,
> and you are getting random LED's when
> you power up. Do you have an oscilloscope and any
> experience troubleshooting
> microprocessors? If not, you will need someone who
> can I think.
>
> --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "fsimon100" ..> wrote:
> >
> > Steve,
> > I down loaded a P5 service manual. It is very
> helpful and much
> > better print than the P10 schematic I have. I can
> now see the what
> > you meant by the subtractive synthesis gated by
> the CEM3310. I just
> > need to isolate why the control panel is dead. I
> have two LEDs light
> > up when I power up but not everytime I power up. I
> know the CPU is
> > good now. I'm thinking it has to be on the
> computer system and not
> > the Analog or synth section. Would you agree.
> Thanks for your help
> > and patience
> >
> >
> > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "thirteentech"
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Well, I can't guarantee that the machine will
> run OK without the
> > sequencer, but it probably will, and is
> > > worth a try. I see one P10 for every dozen P5's
> that I service, so
> > unfortunately I don't have a P10 in the
> > > shop to look at directly.
> > >
> > > As for service manuals, Sequential put out a
> large folder called
> > the "Prophet Synthesizer and
> > > Polyphonic Sequencer System Technical Manual"
> which has the
> > Prophet 5 REV 3.0, 3.1 and 3.2 service,
> > > programming guide and schematics, the Prophet 10
> theory,
> > schematics and parts list, and the Poly
> > > Sequencer theory and schematics, the Prophet 5
> remote service and
> > schematics, and update mod info
> > > for the Rev 3.3 update. much of the P10 section
> refers to the P5
> > schematics.
> > >
> > > The basic differences between a P10 and a Rev
> 3.x P5 are: The
> > P10's master tune is digitized whereas
> > > the P5's is connected directly to the common
> analog circuit. The
> > P10 also has 6k of PROM compared to
> >; > the P5's 2k to allow it to scan the keys and
> controls better to
> > keep scanning delays down to a
> > > maximum of 11ms.
> > >
> > > So if the machine is frozen, the best thing to
> do is to just start
> > making sure that every CPU line looks
> > > like it is doing the right thing, and then move
> on to each device
> > on the data bus and see if it's chip
> > > select input is working. If it is and you have
> gone through all of
> > the basic troubleshooting that you
> > > would expect to do with a microprocessor
> circuit, and it all seems
> > to be running, then take a look a
> > > the autotune circuitry, although this is
> unlikely as your TUNE led
> > is not coming on.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "fsimon100"
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Steve,
> > > > Thanks. Are these diagnostics tribal knowledge
> or are they
> > > > documented in a manual. I do not hve the P10
> manual. If I find
> > one
> > > > will it give me diags.
> > > >
> > > > I have disconnected the Seq board so obviously
> your saying it
> > will
> > > > run without it. Great. One system removed. I
> do have a z80 CPU
> >; to
> > > > swap out.
> > > >
> > > > I was thinking the record switch was a
> microswitch so to enable
> > > > would be a pull down or pull up Res on PCB.
> > > >
> > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "thirteentech"
> > > > <thirteentech@> wrote:
> > > > >
> >; > > > I am not certain what the P10's last OS
> revision was, the
> > highest
> > > > that I have seen on a
> > > > > Prophet 5 is V9.3. Looking at the schematics
> of the 2 machines
> > the
> > > > CPU board is similar,
> > > > > they do have different EPROM and NV RAM
> chips. Also the P 10
> > has
> > > > different scanning
> > > > > circuitry because it would have an
> unacceptable scan delay
> > with 2
> > > > keyboards as opposed
> >; > > > to the P5's 1 keyboard, which has a maximum
> delay of 10 Ms.
> > The
> > > > scanner also scans all of
> > > > > the buttons during each cycle.
> > > > >
> > > > > For what it's worth (not knowing if it also
> applies to the P-
> > 10),
> > > > to enter the CPU and RAM
> > > > > test on a late rev. Prophet 5, turn off the
> power, put the
> > record
> > > > switch to "enabled", and
> > > > > jumper test point 304 (MEM TEST) to plus 5V,
> then turn on. The
> > > > machine starts
> > > > > sequentially flashing it's LED's, to then
> enter the memory
> > test,
> > > > press TUNE. It runs through
> > > > > 4 tests, counting 1-4 as it does them, and
> finishes on 0,
> > > > indication no failures. If it stops
> > > > > on 1-4, it is indication a failure of either
> the scratchpad
> > RAM,
> > > > NV RAM, PROM or 8253
> > > > > timer (1,2,3 and 4).
> > > > >
> > > > > I haven't used these tests on a P10, so I
> don't know if they
> > > > apply, but otherwise maybe the
> > > > > best idea would be to disconnect the
> sequencer board and just
> > > > start the usual traditional
> > > > > checking of the main CPU lines to see if any
> of the data or
> > > > address lines are hung.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "Frank Simon"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Brd 3 there are three EPROMs with the
> Z80 CPU. The first
> > > > says: 0 TEN 5.0, second
> > > > > says: 1 TEN 5.0, third says: 2 TEN 5.0 on
> their stickers.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Brd 9 there is one EPROM with the Z80
> CPU. The sticker on
> > it
> > > > is not too legible what I
> > > > > do see is: SEQ (that part is clear) below it
> say C1 or C.1 or
> > I
> > > > was thinking maybe 2.1( if
> > > > > upper half of 2 was missing).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Both Z80s on pin 6 CLK have 2.5MHz clock
> at about 4v p-p.
> > and 5v
> > > > dc on pin 11. Does
> > > > > the EPROM lose all programming if battery
> dies? If so how do
> > you
> > > > reload? Will keyboard
> > > > > not boot without EPROM program. My friend
> today is bringing me
> > a
> > > > Z80 CPU in so I can
>
=== message truncated ===
__________________________________________________________
Yahoo! For Good. Give and get cool things for free, reduce waste and help our planet. Plus find hidden Yahoo! treasure
http://green.yahoo.com/uk/earth-day/
2008-05-01 by Frank Simon
----- Original Message -----From: thirteentechSent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 6:06 PMSubject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member).Yes, it sounds like your computer is not running, and you are getting random LED's when
you power up. Do you have an oscilloscope and any experience troubleshooting
microprocessors? If not, you will need someone who can I think.
--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" ..> wrote:
>
> Steve,
> I down loaded a P5 service manual. It is very helpful and much
> better print than the P10 schematic I have. I can now see the what
> you meant by the subtractive synthesis gated by the CEM3310. I just
> need to isolate why the control panel is dead. I have two LEDs light
> up when I power up but not everytime I power up. I know the CPU is
> good now. I'm thinking it has to be on the computer system and not
> the Analog or synth section. Would you agree. Thanks for your help
> and patience
>
>
> --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "thirteentech"
> > wrote:
> >
> > Well, I can't guarantee that the machine will run OK without the
> sequencer, but it probably will, and is
> > worth a try. I see one P10 for every dozen P5's that I service, so
> unfortunately I don't have a P10 in the
> > shop to look at directly.
> >
> > As for service manuals, Sequential put out a large folder called
> the "Prophet Synthesizer and
> > Polyphonic Sequencer System Technical Manual" which has the
> Prophet 5 REV 3.0, 3.1 and 3.2 service,
> > programming guide and schematics, the Prophet 10 theory,
> schematics and parts list, and the Poly
> > Sequencer theory and schematics, the Prophet 5 remote service and
> schematics, and update mod info
> > for the Rev 3.3 update. much of the P10 section refers to the P5
> schematics.
> >
> > The basic differences between a P10 and a Rev 3.x P5 are: The
> P10's master tune is digitized whereas
> > the P5's is connected directly to the common analog circuit. The
> P10 also has 6k of PROM compared to
> > the P5's 2k to allow it to scan the keys and controls better to
> keep scanning delays down to a
> > maximum of 11ms.
> >
> > So if the machine is frozen, the best thing to do is to just start
> making sure that every CPU line looks
> > like it is doing the right thing, and then move on to each device
> on the data bus and see if it's chip
> > select input is working. If it is and you have gone through all of
> the basic troubleshooting that you
> > would expect to do with a microprocessor circuit, and it all seems
> to be running, then take a look a
> > the autotune circuitry, although this is unlikely as your TUNE led
> is not coming on.
> >
> >
> > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100"
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Steve,
> > > Thanks. Are these diagnostics tribal knowledge or are they
> > > documented in a manual. I do not hve the P10 manual. If I find
> one
> > > will it give me diags.
> > >
> > > I have disconnected the Seq board so obviously your saying it
> will
> > > run without it. Great. One system removed. I do have a z80 CPU
> to
> > > swap out.
> > >
> > > I was thinking the record switch was a microswitch so to enable
>; > > would be a pull down or pull up Res on PCB.
> > >;
> > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "thirteentech"
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I am not certain what the P10's last OS revision was, the
> highest
> > > that I have seen on a
> > > > Prophet 5 is V9.3. Looking at the schematics of the 2 machines
> the
> > > CPU board is similar,
> > > > they do have different EPROM and NV RAM chips. Also the P 10
> has
> > > different scanning
> > > > circuitry because it would have an unacceptable scan delay
> with 2
> > > keyboards as opposed
> > > > to the P5's 1 keyboard, which has a maximum delay of 10 Ms.
> The
> > > scanner also scans all of
> > >; > the buttons during each cycle.
> > > >
> > > > For what it's worth (not knowing if it also applies to the P-
> 10),
> > > to enter the CPU and RAM
> >; > > test on a late rev. Prophet 5, turn off the power, put the
> record
> > > switch to "enabled", and
> > > > jumper test point 304 (MEM TEST) to plus 5V, then turn on. The
> > > machine starts
> > > > sequentially flashing it's LED's, to then enter the memory
> test,
> > > press TUNE. It runs through
> > > > 4 tests, counting 1-4 as it does them, and finishes on 0,
> > > indication no failures. If it stops
> > > > on 1-4, it is indication a failure of either the scratchpad
> RAM,
> > > NV RAM, PROM or 8253
> > > > timer (1,2,3 and 4).
>; > > >
> > > > I haven't used these tests on a P10, so I don't know if they
> > > apply, but otherwise maybe the
> > > > best idea would be to disconnect the sequencer board and just
> > > start the usual traditional
> > > > checking of the main CPU lines to see if any of the data or
> > > address lines are hung.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon"
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Brd 3 there are three EPROMs with the Z80 CPU. The first
> > > says: 0 TEN 5.0, second
> > > > says: 1 TEN 5.0, third says: 2 TEN 5.0 on their stickers.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Brd 9 there is one EPROM with the Z80 CPU. The sticker on
> it
> > > is not too legible what I
> > > > do see is: SEQ (that part is clear) below it say C1 or C.1 or
> I
> > > was thinking maybe 2.1( if
> > > > upper half of 2 was missing).
> > > > >;
> > > > > Both Z80s on pin 6 CLK have 2.5MHz clock at about 4v p-p.
> and 5v
> > > dc on pin 11. Does
> > > > the EPROM lose all programming if battery dies? If so how do
> you
> > > reload? Will keyboard
> > > > not boot without EPROM program. My friend today is bringing me
> a
> > > Z80 CPU in so I can
> > > > swap out.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: thirteentech
> > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 7:47 AM
> > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was
> Hi
> > > from a new member).
> > > >; >
> > > > >
> > > > > What is written on the stickers on the EPROMS?
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon"
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't know. How do I find this out.
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Stephen Jones
> > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:14 AM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair
> (was
> > > Hi from a new member).
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> >; > > > > Which Rev. Processor board do you have? All the Rev.
> > > > > > 3.1 and 3.2 Prophet 5's have a built in memory test,
> > > > > > and latest software versions also have a basic CPU
> > > > > > test. Which software version do you have?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- Frank Simon wrote:
>; > > > > >
> > > > > > > Steve,
> > > > > > > The TUNE LED does not come on. Since I am four
> > > > > > > CEM3310s short, should certain slots be populated
> > > > > > > just to get boot up? All the supplies are up. I am
> > > > > > > suspicious of PCB9 due to the 12v applied and you
> > > > > > > mentioned EQ board. There are a couple IC's that are
> > > > > > > warm on the EQ board but not so hot I can't keep my
> > > > > > > finger on it. Can you offer a couple key
> > > > > > > troubleshooting spots for measurements to help me
> > > >; > > > isolate this? I'm assuming I have no way to bless
> > > > > > > the Processor. All I have is an Oscope, function
> > > > > > > generator, and multimeter.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: thirteentech
> > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:21 AM
> > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> > > > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > When you turn the machine on the front panel
> > > > > > > should be dark with the exception of the
> > > > > > > [TUNE] switch. The machine boots into it's
> > > > > > > autotune mode and suppresses all of the front
> > > > > > > panel lights and controls while it does so. it
> > > > > > > should take 8-10 seconds if the machine is
> > > > > > > functional, longer if voices are way out of
> > > > > > > calibration.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Does the TUNE button LED come on when you power
> > > > > > > up?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank
> > > > > > > Simon" wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Steve,
> > > > > > > > I have all power supplies in order. There is
> > > > > > > power to all boards. When I turn it on
> > > > > > > shouldn't it boot up and LED's cycle on or blink
> > > > > > > or even be switchable? The panel is dead.
> > > > > > > Does this sound like processor to you?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: thirteentech
> > > > > > >; > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:07 AM
> > > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> > > > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Each of the 5 voices on each voice board has two
> > > > > >; > CEM3310 envelope generators. One
> > > > > >; > > controls the volume envelope of the voice, and
> > > > > > > the other controls the filter cutoff of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > voice if you bring up the filter envelope
> > > > > > > modulation control. If the 3310's in the filter
> > > > > > > > control line are faulty it should only manifest
> > > > > > > when you turn on the filter envelope
> > > > > > > > modulation. If this is off then the voice should
> > > > > > > sound if the VCF cutoff pot is set open.
> > > > > >; > If
> > > > > > > > you have bad 3310's in the VCA envelpoe
> > > > > > > position, the voice won't sound.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I am assuming that your P10 has Rev 3.x Prophet
> > > > > > > 5 voice boards in it, because in the
> > > > > > > > Sequential System Technical manual which covers
> > > > > > > all Prophets from Rev 3.0-3.2, the
> > > > > > > > Prophet 10 and the Poly Sequencer, they all use
> > > > > > > the same basic voice board. So for
> > > > > > > > instance, in Voice 1 of the voice board, U412 is
> > > > > > > the amplifier envelope generator, and
> > > > > > > > U417 is the filter envelope generator.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > > > "Frank Simon" wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > >; > > > > > > Steve,
> > > > > > > > > I am pleased to know there is a technique to
> > > > > > > troube this with the bad ICs. I hope to
> > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > to that point soon. If I remember there were no
> > > > > > > LEDs on control panel lit when turned
> > > > > > > on.
> > > > > > > > Is there a local spot that isolates that
> > > > > > > symptom? I haven't removed the top boards yet.
> > > > > > > > Hopefully I can handle that.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I guess I am confused on VCA and VCF envelope
> > >; > > > > positions. Can you give me a
> > > > > > > > explanation of how to determine which state the
> > > > > > > IC is in.
> > > > > > > > > Frank
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > From: thirteentech
> > > > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:04 PM
> > > > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10
> > > > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member).
> >; > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Well, if you have metered all of the power
> > > > > > > supply rails in the machine, and are
> > > > > > > satisfied
> > > > > > > > > that they are all in spec, then go ahead and
> > > > > > >; put the voice boards back in. Remove the
> > > > > > > > > known bad 3310's, and if any were in VCA
> >; > > > > > ENVELOPE positions, replace them with
> > > > > > > > 3310's
> > > > > > > > > from VCF ENVELOPE positions. This will allow
> > > > > > > you to set up a patch with the VCF
> > > > > > > > envelopes
> > > > > > > > > control turned off and still have all of the
> > > > > > > voices audible so that you can hear is all
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > voices are working.
> > > > >; > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The EQ board on P10's was another source of
> > > > > > > problems too of you don't get any
> > > > > > > > sound.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > As for the sequencer board, the best way to
> > > > > > > test functionality is to get the rest of the
> > > > > > > > > machine basically playing and then just try
> > > > > > > out the sequencer and see if it loads and
> > > > > > > > plays
> > > > > > >; > > back notes.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Sounds like your power supply lines are the
> > > > > > > most important issue, so as I mentioned,
> > > > > > > > put
> > > > > > > > > all your attention on them being correct
> > > > > > > first. There are lots of CEM3310's in the
> > > > > > > >; machine,
> > > > > > > > > so you can definately get the machine playing
> > > > > > > without 4 of them, just make sure that
> > > > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > > are good chips in the VCA envelope positions.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Steve.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > > > "fsimon100" wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Steve,
> > > > > > >; > > > Thanks, obviously I have a Rev 1. My
> > > > > > > schematic is a scanned copy and
> > > > > > > > > > didn't see the note and still don't but I
> > > > > > > know you are correct. What
> > > > > > > > > > do you think I could have damaged with the
> > > > > > > 12v I put in? Like I said
> > > > > > > > > > U931 shorted and got hot. I know that may be
> > > > > >; > a tough question
> > > > > > > > > > without personally probing but the board is
> > > > > > > holding the 5v now. How
> > > > > >; > > > > could I verify functionality of PCB9.
> >; > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Also if I put one of the voice boards in
> > > > > > > with 4 CEM3310 missing can
> > >; > > > > > > > I continue troubleshooting? Is there a
> > > > > > > chance I could get confidence
> > > > > > > > > > from a oscope or panel lights before I buy
> > > > > > > four CEMs.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > >; > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > > > "thirteentech"
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> >; > > > > > > > > > The Prophet 10 service manual shows that
> > > > > > > U603 is a +5V for rev. 1
> > > > > > > > > > machines, or +12V for Rev. 0 machines. It
> > > > > > > looks like that supply is
> > > > > > > > > > for either a 5V
> > > > > > > > > > > cassette drive or a 12V wafer drive
> > > > > > > depending on which version of
> > > > > >; > > > > machine you have, but the schematic also
> > > > > > > shows a note on the 5.6V
> > > > > > > > > > rail of the PSU
> > > > > > > > > > > saying: "To PCB 9, Rev 0, not used for Rev
> > > > > > > 1". So depending on
>; > > > > > > > > > whether you have a Rev 0 or Rev 1, there
> > > > > > > will be different supplies
> > > > > > > > > > on P603 pins 2 and
> > > > > > > > > > > 3.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >; > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > > > "Frank Simon"
> > > >; > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Steve,
> > > > > > > > > > > > I have a manual I downloaded from
> > > > > > > paintingwithsound.com. It is
> > > > > > > > > > hard to read. I was a little disappointed
> > > > > > > when
> > > > > > === message truncated ===
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
>; __________________________________________________________
> > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > > > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> > > > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
2008-05-01 by thirteentech
It sounds like you know what you're doing, the only way to test the EPROM's (apart from hung data or address lines) is to replace them. Have a look on some of the Prophet websites to see if anyone has posted the EPROM images, but first eliminate everything else by thorough faultfinding procedures. --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@...> wrote: > > Steve, > Since I downloaded the P5 service manual (it only goes to rev 3.2) I have a much better understanding of the system. It helps to have a good service manual. Before all I had was a schematic only of the P10. I do have an Oscope and I may borrow a logic analyzer. I have good troubleshooting skills. I have little microprocessor troubleshooting but as long as I understand the flow, I know address and data bus and when a part of the system is Computer Select from a Memory Address Decoder A10-A12 to take Adress from CPU to output data to Data Bus. So I am going to probe the tune section (since you said that is first operation) look for CS to the timer and status output then work towards the EPROM if it gets CS. I think I will put a wire on CPU reset to ground instead of cycling power switch. > > In general I need to know sequence of events but isn't that from firmware programmed in the EPROM. That is where I need help. How do I know it is programmed properly. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: thirteentech > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 6:06 PM > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > Yes, it sounds like your computer is not running, and you are getting random LED's when
> you power up. Do you have an oscilloscope and any experience troubleshooting > microprocessors? If not, you will need someone who can I think. > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > Steve, > > I down loaded a P5 service manual. It is very helpful and much > > better print than the P10 schematic I have. I can now see the what > > you meant by the subtractive synthesis gated by the CEM3310. I just > > need to isolate why the control panel is dead. I have two LEDs light > > up when I power up but not everytime I power up. I know the CPU is > > good now. I'm thinking it has to be on the computer system and not > > the Analog or synth section. Would you agree. Thanks for your help > > and patience > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "thirteentech" > > <thirteentech@> wrote: > > > > > > Well, I can't guarantee that the machine will run OK without the > > sequencer, but it probably will, and is > > > worth a try. I see one P10 for every dozen P5's that I service, so > > unfortunately I don't have a P10 in the > > > shop to look at directly. > > > > > > As for service manuals, Sequential put out a large folder called > > the "Prophet Synthesizer and > > > Polyphonic Sequencer System Technical Manual" which has the > > Prophet 5 REV 3.0, 3.1 and 3.2 service, > > > programming guide and schematics, the Prophet 10 theory, > > schematics and parts list, and the Poly > > > Sequencer theory and schematics, the Prophet 5 remote service and > > schematics, and update mod info > > > for the Rev 3.3 update. much of the P10 section refers to the P5 > > schematics. > > > > > > The basic differences between a P10 and a Rev 3.x P5 are: The > > P10's master tune is digitized whereas > > > the P5's is connected directly to the common analog circuit. The > > P10 also has 6k of PROM compared to > > > the P5's 2k to allow it to scan the keys and controls better to > > keep scanning delays down to a > > > maximum of 11ms. > > > > > > So if the machine is frozen, the best thing to do is to just start > > making sure that every CPU line looks > > > like it is doing the right thing, and then move on to each device > > on the data bus and see if it's chip > > > select input is working. If it is and you have gone through all of > > the basic troubleshooting that you > > > would expect to do with a microprocessor circuit, and it all seems > > to be running, then take a look a > > > the autotune circuitry, although this is unlikely as your TUNE led > > is not coming on. > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" > > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > Thanks. Are these diagnostics tribal knowledge or are they > > > > documented in a manual. I do not hve the P10 manual. If I find > > one > > > > will it give me diags. > > > > > > > > I have disconnected the Seq board so obviously your saying it > > will > > > > run without it. Great. One system removed. I do have a z80 CPU > > to > > > > swap out. > > > > > > > > I was thinking the record switch was a microswitch so to enable > > > > would be a pull down or pull up Res on PCB. > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "thirteentech" > > > > <thirteentech@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I am not certain what the P10's last OS revision was, the > > highest > > > > that I have seen on a > > > > > Prophet 5 is V9.3. Looking at the schematics of the 2 machines > > the > > > > CPU board is similar, > > > > > they do have different EPROM and NV RAM chips. Also the P 10 > > has > > > > different scanning > > > > > circuitry because it would have an unacceptable scan delay > > with 2 > > > > keyboards as opposed > > > > > to the P5's 1 keyboard, which has a maximum delay of 10 Ms. > > The > > > > scanner also scans all of > > > > > the buttons during each cycle. > > > > > > > > > > For what it's worth (not knowing if it also applies to the P- > > 10), > > > > to enter the CPU and RAM > > > > > test on a late rev. Prophet 5, turn off the power, put the > > record > > > > switch to "enabled", and > > > > > jumper test point 304 (MEM TEST) to plus 5V, then turn on. The > > > > machine starts > > > > > sequentially flashing it's LED's, to then enter the memory > > test, > > > > press TUNE. It runs through > > > > > 4 tests, counting 1-4 as it does them, and finishes on 0, > > > > indication no failures. If it stops > > > > > on 1-4, it is indication a failure of either the scratchpad > > RAM, > > > > NV RAM, PROM or 8253 > > > > > timer (1,2,3 and 4). > > > > > > > > > > I haven't used these tests on a P10, so I don't know if they > > > > apply, but otherwise maybe the > > > > > best idea would be to disconnect the sequencer board and just > > > > start the usual traditional > > > > > checking of the main CPU lines to see if any of the data or > > > > address lines are hung. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" > > > > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Brd 3 there are three EPROMs with the Z80 CPU. The first > > > > says: 0 TEN 5.0, second > > > > > says: 1 TEN 5.0, third says: 2 TEN 5.0 on their stickers. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Brd 9 there is one EPROM with the Z80 CPU. The sticker on > > it > > > > is not too legible what I > > > > > do see is: SEQ (that part is clear) below it say C1 or C.1 or > > I > > > > was thinking maybe 2.1( if > > > > > upper half of 2 was missing). > > > > > > > > > > > > Both Z80s on pin 6 CLK have 2.5MHz clock at about 4v p-p. > > and 5v > > > > dc on pin 11. Does > > > > > the EPROM lose all programming if battery dies? If so how do > > you > > > > reload? Will keyboard > > > > > not boot without EPROM program. My friend today is bringing me > > a > > > > Z80 CPU in so I can > > > > > swap out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 7:47 AM > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was > > Hi > > > > from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is written on the stickers on the EPROMS? > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" > > > > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know. How do I find this out. > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Stephen Jones > > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:14 AM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair > > (was > > > > Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which Rev. Processor board do you have? All the Rev. > > > > > > > 3.1 and 3.2 Prophet 5's have a built in memory test, > > > > > > > and latest software versions also have a basic CPU > > > > > > > test. Which software version do you have? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > > > The TUNE LED does not come on. Since I am four > > > > > > > > CEM3310s short, should certain slots be populated > > > > > > > > just to get boot up? All the supplies are up. I am > > > > > > > > suspicious of PCB9 due to the 12v applied and you > > > > > > > > mentioned EQ board. There are a couple IC's that are > > > > > > > > warm on the EQ board but not so hot I can't keep my > > > > > > > > finger on it. Can you offer a couple key > > > > > > > > troubleshooting spots for measurements to help me > > > > > > > > isolate this? I'm assuming I have no way to bless > > > > > > > > the Processor. All I have is an Oscope, function > > > > > > > > generator, and multimeter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:21 AM > > > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 > > > > > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you turn the machine on the front panel > > > > > > > > should be dark with the exception of the > > > > > > > > [TUNE] switch. The machine boots into it's > > > > > > > > autotune mode and suppresses all of the front > > > > > > > > panel lights and controls while it does so. it > > > > > > > > should take 8-10 seconds if the machine is > > > > > > > > functional, longer if voices are way out of > > > > > > > > calibration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does the TUNE button LED come on when you power > > > > > > > > up? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank > > > > > > > > Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > > > > I have all power supplies in order. There is > > > > > > > > power to all boards. When I turn it on > > > > > > > > shouldn't it boot up and LED's cycle on or blink > > > > > > > > or even be switchable? The panel is dead. > > > > > > > > Does this sound like processor to you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@...m > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:07 AM > > > > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 > > > > > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each of the 5 voices on each voice board has two > > > > > > > > CEM3310 envelope generators. One > > > > > > > > > controls the volume envelope of the voice, and > > > > > > > > the other controls the filter cutoff of > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > voice if you bring up the filter envelope > > > > > > > > modulation control. If the 3310's in the filter > > > > > > > > > control line are faulty it should only manifest > > > > > > > > when you turn on the filter envelope > > > > > > > > > modulation. If this is off then the voice should > > > > > > > > sound if the VCF cutoff pot is set open. > > > > > > > > If > > > > > > > > > you have bad 3310's in the VCA envelpoe > > > > > > > > position, the voice won't sound. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am assuming that your P10 has Rev 3.x Prophet > > > > > > > > 5 voice boards in it, because in the > > > > > > > > > Sequential System Technical manual which covers > > > > > > > > all Prophets from Rev 3.0-3.2, the > > > > > > > > > Prophet 10 and the Poly Sequencer, they all use > > > > > > > > the same basic voice board. So for > > > > > > > > > instance, in Voice 1 of the voice board, U412 is > > > > > > > > the amplifier envelope generator, and > > > > > > > > > U417 is the filter envelope generator. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > > > > "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > > > > > I am pleased to know there is a technique to > > > > > > > > troube this with the bad ICs. I hope to > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > to that point soon. If I remember there were no > > > > > > > > LEDs on control panel lit when turned > > > > > > > > on. > > > > > > > > > Is there a local spot that isolates that > > > > > > > > symptom? I haven't removed the top boards yet. > > > > > > > > > Hopefully I can handle that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess I am confused on VCA and VCF envelope > > > > > > > > positions. Can you give me a > > > > > > > > > explanation of how to determine which state the > > > > > > > > IC is in. > > > > > > > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:04 PM > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 > > > > > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, if you have metered all of the power > > > > > > > > supply rails in the machine, and are > > > > > > > > satisfied > > > > > > > > > > that they are all in spec, then go ahead and > > > > > > > > put the voice boards back in. Remove the > > > > > > > > > > known bad 3310's, and if any were in VCA > > > > > > > > ENVELOPE positions, replace them with > > > > > > > > > 3310's > > > > > > > > > > from VCF ENVELOPE positions. This will allow > > > > > > > > you to set up a patch with the VCF > > > > > > > > > envelopes > > > > > > > > > > control turned off and still have all of the > > > > > > > > voices audible so that you can hear is all > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > voices are working. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The EQ board on P10's was another source of > > > > > > > > problems too of you don't get any > > > > > > > > > sound. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the sequencer board, the best way to > > > > > > > > test functionality is to get the rest of the > > > > > > > > > > machine basically playing and then just try > > > > > > > > out the sequencer and see if it loads and > > > > > > > > > plays > > > > > > > > > > back notes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sounds like your power supply lines are the > > > > > > > > most important issue, so as I mentioned, > > > > > > > > > put > > > > > > > > > > all your attention on them being correct > > > > > > > > first. There are lots of CEM3310's in the > > > > > > > > > machine, > > > > > > > > > > so you can definately get the machine playing > > > > > > > > without 4 of them, just make sure that > > > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > > are good chips in the VCA envelope positions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > > > > "fsimon100" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, obviously I have a Rev 1. My > > > > > > > > schematic is a scanned copy and > > > > > > > > > > > didn't see the note and still don't but I > > > > > > > > know you are correct. What > > > > > > > > > > > do you think I could have damaged with the > > > > > > > > 12v I put in? Like I said > > > > > > > > > > > U931 shorted and got hot. I know that may be > > > > > > > > a tough question > > > > > > > > > > > without personally probing but the board is > > > > > > > > holding the 5v now. How > > > > > > > > > > > could I verify functionality of PCB9. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also if I put one of the voice boards in > > > > > > > > with 4 CEM3310 missing can > > > > > > > > > > > I continue troubleshooting? Is there a > > > > > > > > chance I could get confidence > > > > > > > > > > > from a oscope or panel lights before I buy > > > > > > > > four CEMs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > > > > "thirteentech" > > > > > > > > > > > <thirteentech@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Prophet 10 service manual shows that > > > > > > > > U603 is a +5V for rev. 1 > > > > > > > > > > > machines, or +12V for Rev. 0 machines. It > > > > > > > > looks like that supply is > > > > > > > > > > > for either a 5V > > > > > > > > > > > > cassette drive or a 12V wafer drive > > > > > > > > depending on which version of > > > > > > > > > > > machine you have, but the schematic also > > > > > > > > shows a note on the 5.6V > > > > > > > > > > > rail of the PSU > > > > > > > > > > > > saying: "To PCB 9, Rev 0, not used for Rev > > > > > > > > 1". So depending on > > > > > > > > > > > whether you have a Rev 0 or Rev 1, there > > > > > > > > will be different supplies > > > > > > > > > > > on P603 pins 2 and > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > > > > "Frank Simon" > > > > > > > > > > > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Steve, > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a manual I downloaded from > > > > > > > > paintingwithsound.com. It is > > > > > > > > > > > hard to read. I was a little disappointed > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > > > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > > > > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
2008-05-01 by Frank Simon
----- Original Message -----From: thirteentechSent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 10:38 PMSubject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member).It sounds like you know what you're doing, the only way to test the EPROM's (apart from
hung data or address lines) is to replace them. Have a look on some of the Prophet
websites to see if anyone has posted the EPROM images, but first eliminate everything
else by thorough faultfinding procedures.
--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" ..> wrote:
>
> Steve,
> Since I downloaded the P5 service manual (it only goes to rev 3.2) I have a much better
understanding of the system. It helps to have a good service manual. Before all I had was a
schematic only of the P10. I do have an Oscope and I may borrow a logic analyzer. I have
good troubleshooting skills. I have little microprocessor troubleshooting but as long as I
understand the flow, I know address and data bus and when a part of the system is
Computer Select from a Memory Address Decoder A10-A12 to take Adress from CPU to
output data to Data Bus. So I am going to probe the tune section (since you said that is
first operation) look for CS to the timer and status output then work towards the EPROM if
it gets CS. I think I will put a wire on CPU reset to ground instead of cycling power switch.
>
> In general I need to know sequence of events but isn't that from firmware programmed
in the EPROM. That is where I need help. How do I know it is programmed properly.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: thirteentech
> To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 6:06 PM
>; Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member).
>
>
> Yes, it sounds like your computer is not running, and you are getting random LED's
when
> you power up. Do you have an oscilloscope and any experience troubleshooting
> microprocessors? If not, you will need someone who can I think.
>
> --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" wrote:
> >
> > Steve,
> > I down loaded a P5 service manual. It is very helpful and much
>; > better print than the P10 schematic I have. I can now see the what
> > you meant by the subtractive synthesis gated by the CEM3310. I just
> > need to isolate why the control panel is dead. I have two LEDs light
> > up when I power up but not everytime I power up. I know the CPU is
> > good now. I'm thinking it has to be on the computer system and not
> > the Analog or synth section. Would you agree. Thanks for your help
> > and patience
> >
> >
> > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "thirteentech"
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Well, I can't guarantee that the machine will run OK without the
> > sequencer, but it probably will, and is
> > > worth a try. I see one P10 for every dozen P5's that I service, so
> > unfortunately I don't have a P10 in the
> > > shop to look at directly.
> > >
> > > As for service manuals, Sequential put out a large folder called
> > the "Prophet Synthesizer and
> >; > Polyphonic Sequencer System Technical Manual" which has the
> > Prophet 5 REV 3.0, 3.1 and 3.2 service,
> > > programming guide and schematics, the Prophet 10 theory,
> > schematics and parts list, and the Poly
> > > Sequencer theory and schematics, the Prophet 5 remote service and
> > schematics, and update mod info
> > > for the Rev 3.3 update. much of the P10 section refers to the P5
> > schematics.
> > >
> > > The basic differences between a P10 and a Rev 3.x P5 are: The
> > P10's master tune is digitized whereas
> > > the P5's is connected directly to the common analog circuit. The
> > P10 also has 6k of PROM compared to
> > > the P5's 2k to allow it to scan the keys and controls better to
> > keep scanning delays down to a
> > > maximum of 11ms.
> > >
> > > So if the machine is frozen, the best thing to do is to just start
> > making sure that every CPU line looks
> > > like it is doing the right thing, and then move on to each device
> > on the data bus and see if it's chip
> > > select input is working. If it is and you have gone through all of
> > the basic troubleshooting that you
> > > would expect to do with a microprocessor circuit, and it all seems
> > to be running, then take a look a
> > > the autotune circuitry, although this is unlikely as your TUNE led
> > is not coming on.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100"
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Steve,
> > > > Thanks. Are these diagnostics tribal knowledge or are they
> > > > documented in a manual. I do not hve the P10 manual. If I find
> > one
> > > > will it give me diags.
> > > >
> >; > > I have disconnected the Seq board so obviously your saying it
> > will
> > > > run without it. Great. One system removed. I do have a z80 CPU
> > to
> > > > swap out.
> > > >
> > > > I was thinking the record switch was a microswitch so to enable
> > >; > would be a pull down or pull up Res on PCB.
> > > >;
> > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "thirteentech"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I am not certain what the P10's last OS revision was, the
> > highest
> > > > that I have seen on a
> > > > > Prophet 5 is V9.3. Looking at the schematics of the 2 machines
> > the
> > > > CPU board is similar,
> > > > > they do have different EPROM and NV RAM chips. Also the P 10
> > has
> > > > different scanning
> > > > > circuitry because it would have an unacceptable scan delay
> > with 2
> > > > keyboards as opposed
> > > > > to the P5's 1 keyboard, which has a maximum delay of 10 Ms.
> > The
> > > > scanner also scans all of
> > > > > the buttons during each cycle.
> > > > >
> > > > > For what it's worth (not knowing if it also applies to the P-
> > 10),
> > > > to enter the CPU and RAM
> > > > > test on a late rev. Prophet 5, turn off the power, put the
> > record
> > > > switch to "enabled", and
> > > > > jumper test point 304 (MEM TEST) to plus 5V, then turn on. The
> > > > machine starts
> > > > > sequentially flashing it's LED's, to then enter the memory
> > test,
> > > > press TUNE. It runs through
> > > > > 4 tests, counting 1-4 as it does them, and finishes on 0,
> > > > indication no failures. If it stops
> > > > > on 1-4, it is indication a failure of either the scratchpad
> > RAM,
> > > > NV RAM, PROM or 8253
> >; > > > timer (1,2,3 and 4).
> > > > >
> > > > > I haven't used these tests on a P10, so I don't know if they
> > > > apply, but otherwise maybe the
> > > > > best idea would be to disconnect the sequencer board and just
> > > > start the usual traditional
> > > > > checking of the main CPU lines to see if any of the data or
> > > > address lines are hung.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Brd 3 there are three EPROMs with the Z80 CPU. The first
> > > > says: 0 TEN 5.0, second
> > > > > says: 1 TEN 5.0, third says: 2 TEN 5.0 on their stickers.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Brd 9 there is one EPROM with the Z80 CPU. The sticker on
> > it
> > > > is not too legible what I
> > > > > do see is: SEQ (that part is clear) below it say C1 or C.1 or
> > I
> > > > was thinking maybe 2.1( if
> > > > > upper half of 2 was missing).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Both Z80s on pin 6 CLK have 2.5MHz clock at about 4v p-p.
> > and 5v
> >; > > dc on pin 11. Does
> > > > > the EPROM lose all programming if battery dies? If so how do
> > you
> > > > reload? Will keyboard
> > > > > not boot without EPROM program. My friend today is bringing me
> > a
> > > > Z80 CPU in so I can
> > > > > swap out.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >; > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: thirteentech
> > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 7:47 AM
> > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was
> > Hi
> > >; > from a new member).
> > > > > >
> >; > > > >
> > > > > > What is written on the stickers on the EPROMS?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't know. How do I find this out.
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: Stephen Jones
> > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:14 AM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair
> > (was
> > > > Hi from a new member).
> > > > > >; >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Which Rev. Processor board do you have? All the Rev.
>; > > > > > > 3.1 and 3.2 Prophet 5's have a built in memory test,
> > > > > > > and latest software versions also have a basic CPU
> > > > > > > test. Which software version do you have?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- Frank Simon wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Steve,
> > > > > > > > The TUNE LED does not come on. Since I am four
> > > > > > > > CEM3310s short, should certain slots be populated
> > > > > > > > just to get boot up? All the supplies are up. I am
> > > > > > > > suspicious of PCB9 due to the 12v applied and you
> > > > > > > > mentioned EQ board. There are a couple IC's that are
> > > > > > > > warm on the EQ board but not so hot I can't keep my
> > > > > > > > finger on it. Can you offer a couple key
> > > > > > > > troubleshooting spots for measurements to help me
> > > > > > > > isolate this? I'm assuming I have no way to bless
>; > > > > > > > the Processor. All I have is an Oscope, function
> > > > > > > > generator, and multimeter.
> > > > > > > >
> > >; > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: thirteentech
> > > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:21 AM
> > > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> > > > > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > When you turn the machine on the front panel
> > > > > > > > should be dark with the exception of the
> > > > > > > > [TUNE] switch. The machine boots into it's
> > > > > > > > autotune mode and suppresses all of the front
> > > > > > > > panel lights and controls while it does so. it
> > > > > > > > should take 8-10 seconds if the machine is
> > > > > > > >; functional, longer if voices are way out of
> > > > >; > > > calibration.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Does the TUNE button LED come on when you power
> > > > > > > > up?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank
> > > > > > > > Simon" wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Steve,
> > > > > > > > > I have all power supplies in order. There is
> > > > > > > > power to all boards. When I turn it on
> > > >; > > > > shouldn't it boot up and LED's cycle on or blink
> > > > > > > > or even be switchable? The panel is dead.
> > > > > > > > Does this sound like processor to you?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > From: thirteentech
> > > > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:07 AM
> > > > > > > >; > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> > > > > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Each of the 5 voices on each voice board has two
> > > > > > > > CEM3310 envelope generators. One
> > > > > > > > > controls the volume envelope of the voice, and
> > > > > > > > the other controls the filter cutoff of
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > voice if you bring up the filter envelope
> > > > > > > > modulation control. If the 3310's in the filter
> > > > > > > > > control line are faulty it should only manifest
> > > > > > > > when you turn on the filter envelope
> > > > > > > > > modulation. If this is off then the voice should
> > > > > > > > sound if the VCF cutoff pot is set open.
> > > > > > > > If
> > > > > > > > > you have bad 3310's in the VCA envelpoe
> > > > > > > > position, the voice won't sound.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I am assuming that your P10 has Rev 3.x Prophet
> > > > > > > > 5 voice boards in it, because in the
> > > > > > > > > Sequential System Technical manual which covers
> > > > > > > > all Prophets from Rev 3.0-3.2, the
> > >; > > > > > > Prophet 10 and the Poly Sequencer, they all use
> > > > > > > > the same basic voice board. So for
> > > > > > > > > instance, in Voice 1 of the voice board, U412 is
> > > > > > > > the amplifier envelope generator, and
> > > > > > > > > U417 is the filter envelope generator.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > > > > "Frank Simon" wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > >; > > > > > > Steve,
> > > > > > > > > > I am pleased to know there is a technique to
> > > > > > > > troube this with the bad ICs. I hope to
> > > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > to that point soon. If I remember there were no
> > > > > > > > LEDs on control panel lit when turned
> > > > > > > > on.
> > > > > > > > > Is there a local spot that isolates that
> > > > > > > > symptom? I haven't removed the top boards yet.
> > > > > > > > > Hopefully I can handle that.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I guess I am confused on VCA and VCF envelope
> > > > > > > > positions. Can you give me a
> > > > > > > > > explanation of how to determine which state the
> > > > > > > > IC is in.
> > > > > > > > > > Frank
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > From: thirteentech
> > > > > >; > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:04 PM
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10
> > > > > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member).
> > > > > > >; > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Well, if you have metered all of the power
> > > > > > > > supply rails in the machine, and are
> > > > > > > > satisfied
> > > > > > > > > > that they are all in spec, then go ahead and
> > > > > >; > > put the voice boards back in. Remove the
> > > > > > > > > > known bad 3310's, and if any were in VCA
> > > > > > > > ENVELOPE positions, replace them with
> > > > > > > > > 3310's
> > > > > > > > > > from VCF ENVELOPE positions. This will allow
> > > > > > > > you to set up a patch with the VCF
> > > > > > > >; > envelopes
> > > > > > > > > > control turned off and still have all of the
> > > > > > > > voices audible so that you can hear is all
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > voices are working.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The EQ board on P10's was another source of
> > > > > >; > > problems too of you don't get any
> > > > > > > > > sound.
> > > > > > > >; > >
> > > > > > > > > > As for the sequencer board, the best way to
> > > > > > > > test functionality is to get the rest of the
> > > > > > > > > > machine basically playing and then just try
> > > > > > > > out the sequencer and see if it loads and
> > > > > > > > > plays
> > > > > > > > > > back notes.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Sounds like your power supply lines are the
> > > > > > > > most important issue, so as I mentioned,
> > > > > > > > > put
> > > > > > > > > > all your attention on them being correct
> > > > > > > > first. There are lots of CEM3310's in the
> > > > > > > > > machine,
> > > > > > > > > > so you can definately get the machine playing
> > > > > > > > without 4 of them, just make sure that
> > >; > > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > > > are good chips in the VCA envelope positions.
>; > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Steve.
> > > > > > >; > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > > > > "fsimon100" wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Steve,
> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, obviously I have a Rev 1. My
> > > >; > > > > schematic is a scanned copy and
> > > > > > > > > > > didn't see the note and still don't but I
> > > > > > > > know you are correct. What
> > > > > > > > > > > do you think I could have damaged with the
> > > > > > >; > 12v I put in? Like I said
> > > > > > > > > > > U931 shorted and got hot. I know that may be
> > > > > > > > a tough question
> > > > > > > > > > > without personally probing but the board is
> > > > > > > > holding the 5v now. How
> > > > > > > > > > > could I verify functionality of PCB9.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Also if I put one of the voice boards in
> > > > > > > > with 4 CEM3310 missing can
> > > > >; > > > > > > I continue troubleshooting? Is there a
> > > > > > > > chance I could get confidence
> > > > > > > > > > > from a oscope or panel lights before I buy
> > > > > > > > four CEMs.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > > > > "thirteentech"
> > > > > > > > > > > <;thirteentech@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >; > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The Prophet 10 service manual shows that
> > > > > > > > U603 is a +5V for rev. 1
> > > >; > > > > > > > machines, or +12V for Rev. 0 machines. It
> > > > > > > > looks like that supply is
> > > > > > > > > > > for either a 5V
> > > > > > > > > > > > cassette drive or a 12V wafer drive
> > > > > > > > depending on which version of
> > > > > > > > > > > machine you have, but the schematic also
> >; > > > > > > shows a note on the 5.6V
> > > > > > > > > > > rail of the PSU
> >; > > > > > > > > > > saying: "To PCB 9, Rev 0, not used for Rev
> > > > > > > > 1". So depending on
> > > > > > > > > > > whether you have a Rev 0 or Rev 1, there
> > > > > > > > will be different supplies
> > > > > >; > > > > > on P603 pins 2 and
> > > > > > > > > > > > 3.
> > > > > >; > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > > > > "Frank Simon"
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Steve,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a manual I downloaded from
> > > > > > > > paintingwithsound.com. It is
> > > > > > > > > > > hard to read. I was a little disappointed
> > > > >; > > > when
> > > > > > > === message truncated ===
> > > > > > >
>; > > > > > >
> > __________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > > > > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> > > > > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
2008-05-01 by Philip
Frank,
Not at all, no personal jabs at you intended I
promise. I'm very sorry you feel that way. But when
you start asking what an EPROM is/does, and it takes
ten seconds to google that answer..I just feel you
needed a little bit of advice in other areas not just
the problem with the synth. If my advice upsets and
annoys you then I am sorry. I don't think your
intelligence was ever in question though!
This is a public forum and you will often get advice
that you don\ufffdt like to hear. I post for the good of
the group hopefully and the archive, not for the
individual. If you don\ufffdt like my advice or comments
and you feel it is a private tech consultation with
Steve, then don\ufffdt post publicly, email each other
privately. I notice all your posts are addressed to
\ufffdSteve\ufffd anyway, not the group.
Anyway I am certainly no expert by any stretch but I
do have quite good common sense and a pretty logical
brain that has got me a long way without much
theoretical knowledge. I don\ufffdt care too much how
things work, I just want to fix it fast and play
it..if you get me. I want you to fix your synth as
much as the next guy on here.
You have a problem in the digital circuit you need to
scope it or use a logic probe and for that you need to
understand logic circuits, CPU's, data, address busses
etc. I/O ports etc..decent version specific schematics
and or service data. That was advised a few weeks
ago..I suggested you do some of your own research
otherwise it'll be stabbing in the dark to help you,
not hinder you. That's all.
Philip.
--- Frank Simon <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> Philip,
> You are right. You have been taking jabs at me for
> some reason for some time now. I am an RF Engineer
> for 15 years and prior to that an RF Technician for
> another 6. I have been a musician for 30 years. I am
> a hobbiest musical instrument repaiman with mostly
> amplifiers. I build and repair computers. You are
> correct I am not an expert at the digital domain but
> I do understand more than you think. Steve was kind
> enough to talk to me without insult. If you think my
> postings are an insult to your intelligence please
> don't bother responding.
>
> Frank
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Philip
> To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 6:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> repair
>
>
> Not being funny but I think we said this like 3
> weeks
> ago....I repeated it too a few days ago.
>
> He has a problem in the digital domain that's
> plain to
> see....but from the kind of things he's said he
> needs
> to read some books on that kind of stuff, do a bit
> of
> research etc otherwise it's stabbing in the dark
> time.
>
> Ok carry on I'll shut up now :)
>
> --- thirteentech <thirteentech@...> wrote:
>
> > Yes, it sounds like your computer is not
> running,
> > and you are getting random LED's when
> > you power up. Do you have an oscilloscope and
> any
> > experience troubleshooting
> > microprocessors? If not, you will need someone
> who
> > can I think.
> >
> > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> > "fsimon100" <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Steve,
> > > I down loaded a P5 service manual. It is very
> > helpful and much
> > > better print than the P10 schematic I have. I
> can
> > now see the what
> > > you meant by the subtractive synthesis gated
> by
> > the CEM3310. I just
> > > need to isolate why the control panel is dead.
> I
> > have two LEDs light
> > > up when I power up but not everytime I power
> up. I
> > know the CPU is
> > > good now. I'm thinking it has to be on the
> > computer system and not
> > > the Analog or synth section. Would you agree.
> > Thanks for your help
> > > and patience
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> > "thirteentech"
> > > <thirteentech@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Well, I can't guarantee that the machine
> will
> > run OK without the
> > > sequencer, but it probably will, and is
> > > > worth a try. I see one P10 for every dozen
> P5's
> > that I service, so
> > > unfortunately I don't have a P10 in the
> > > > shop to look at directly.
> > > >
> > > > As for service manuals, Sequential put out a
> > large folder called
> > > the "Prophet Synthesizer and
> > > > Polyphonic Sequencer System Technical
> Manual"
> > which has the
> > > Prophet 5 REV 3.0, 3.1 and 3.2 service,
> > > > programming guide and schematics, the
> Prophet 10
> > theory,
> > > schematics and parts list, and the Poly
> > > > Sequencer theory and schematics, the Prophet
> 5
> > remote service and
> > > schematics, and update mod info
> > > > for the Rev 3.3 update. much of the P10
> section
> > refers to the P5
> > > schematics.
> > > >
> > > > The basic differences between a P10 and a
> Rev
> > 3.x P5 are: The
> > > P10's master tune is digitized whereas
> > > > the P5's is connected directly to the common
> > analog circuit. The
> > > P10 also has 6k of PROM compared to
> > > > the P5's 2k to allow it to scan the keys and
> > controls better to
> > > keep scanning delays down to a
> > > > maximum of 11ms.
> > > >
> > > > So if the machine is frozen, the best thing
> to
> > do is to just start
> > > making sure that every CPU line looks
> > > > like it is doing the right thing, and then
> move
> > on to each device
> > > on the data bus and see if it's chip
> > > > select input is working. If it is and you
> have
> > gone through all of
> > > the basic troubleshooting that you
> > > > would expect to do with a microprocessor
> > circuit, and it all seems
> > > to be running, then take a look a
> > > > the autotune circuitry, although this is
> > unlikely as your TUNE led
> > > is not coming on.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> > "fsimon100"
> > > <fsimon001@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Steve,
> > > > > Thanks. Are these diagnostics tribal
> knowledge
> > or are they
> > > > > documented in a manual. I do not hve the
> P10
> > manual. If I find
> > > one
> > > > > will it give me diags.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have disconnected the Seq board so
> obviously
> > your saying it
> > > will
> > > > > run without it. Great. One system removed.
> I
> > do have a z80 CPU
> > > to
> > > > > swap out.
> > > > >
> > > > > I was thinking the record switch was a
> > microswitch so to enable
> > > > > would be a pull down or pull up Res on
> PCB.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> > "thirteentech"
> > > > > <thirteentech@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am not certain what the P10's last OS
> > revision was, the
> > > highest
> > > > > that I have seen on a
> > > > > > Prophet 5 is V9.3. Looking at the
> schematics
> > of the 2 machines
> > > the
> > > > > CPU board is similar,
> > > > > > they do have different EPROM and NV RAM
> > chips. Also the P 10
> > > has
> > > > > different scanning
> > > > > > circuitry because it would have an
> > unacceptable scan delay
> > > with 2
> > > > > keyboards as opposed
> > > > > > to the P5's 1 keyboard, which has a
> maximum
> > delay of 10 Ms.
> > > The
> > > > > scanner also scans all of
> > > > > > the buttons during each cycle.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For what it's worth (not knowing if it
> also
> > applies to the P-
>
=== message truncated ===
___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! For Good. Give and get cool things for free, reduce waste and help our planet. Plus find hidden Yahoo! treasure
http://green.yahoo.com/uk/earth-day/2008-05-01 by Philip
Your manual question has been discussed on another
synth mailing list. You need the exact version
schematics for your synth, the more info the better.
From Mark Glinsky who has the manual manor site:
> For performing service on the Sequential Circuits
Prophet 10, is it
> true that
> one needs the Prophet 5 Rev. 3.3 Service Manual in
conjunction with
> the
> Prophet 10 Service addendum, which includes the
information for the
> P10
> unique circuitry?
It's true - though not necessarily the 3.3 version.
The P-10 manual
only has the non-P-5 stuff in it, so if you want to
troubleshoot the
voice boards, you have to have the P-5 manual handy.
--- Frank Simon <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> Steve,
> I got this from someone on the Web. Do you feel I
> need what he is selling?
> This is his pitch:
> [From what I've been told now, it seems you need the
> Rev. 3.3
> Service manual, plus the P10 addendum.
>
> I can provide the PDF files for the P5 Rev. 3.3
> service manual
> and the P10 Service Addendum on my website for you
> to download for a
> total of $ 20.]
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: thirteentech
> To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 10:38 PM
> Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> repair (was Hi from a new member).
>
>
> It sounds like you know what you're doing, the
> only way to test the EPROM's (apart from
> hung data or address lines) is to replace them.
> Have a look on some of the Prophet
> websites to see if anyone has posted the EPROM
> images, but first eliminate everything
> else by thorough faultfinding procedures.
>
> --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank
> Simon" <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> >
> > Steve,
> > Since I downloaded the P5 service manual (it
> only goes to rev 3.2) I have a much better
> understanding of the system. It helps to have a
> good service manual. Before all I had was a
> schematic only of the P10. I do have an Oscope and
> I may borrow a logic analyzer. I have
> good troubleshooting skills. I have little
> microprocessor troubleshooting but as long as I
> understand the flow, I know address and data bus
> and when a part of the system is
> Computer Select from a Memory Address Decoder
> A10-A12 to take Adress from CPU to
> output data to Data Bus. So I am going to probe
> the tune section (since you said that is
> first operation) look for CS to the timer and
> status output then work towards the EPROM if
> it gets CS. I think I will put a wire on CPU reset
> to ground instead of cycling power switch.
> >
> > In general I need to know sequence of events but
> isn't that from firmware programmed
> in the EPROM. That is where I need help. How do I
> know it is programmed properly.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: thirteentech
> > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 6:06 PM
> > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> repair (was Hi from a new member).
> >
> >
> > Yes, it sounds like your computer is not
> running, and you are getting random LED's
> when
> > you power up. Do you have an oscilloscope and
> any experience troubleshooting
> > microprocessors? If not, you will need someone
> who can I think.
> >
> > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "fsimon100" <fsimon001@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Steve,
> > > I down loaded a P5 service manual. It is very
> helpful and much
> > > better print than the P10 schematic I have. I
> can now see the what
> > > you meant by the subtractive synthesis gated
> by the CEM3310. I just
> > > need to isolate why the control panel is dead.
> I have two LEDs light
> > > up when I power up but not everytime I power
> up. I know the CPU is
> > > good now. I'm thinking it has to be on the
> computer system and not
> > > the Analog or synth section. Would you agree.
> Thanks for your help
> > > and patience
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "thirteentech"
> > > <thirteentech@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Well, I can't guarantee that the machine
> will run OK without the
> > > sequencer, but it probably will, and is
> > > > worth a try. I see one P10 for every dozen
> P5's that I service, so
> > > unfortunately I don't have a P10 in the
> > > > shop to look at directly.
> > > >
> > > > As for service manuals, Sequential put out a
> large folder called
> > > the "Prophet Synthesizer and
> > > > Polyphonic Sequencer System Technical
> Manual" which has the
> > > Prophet 5 REV 3.0, 3.1 and 3.2 service,
> > > > programming guide and schematics, the
> Prophet 10 theory,
> > > schematics and parts list, and the Poly
> > > > Sequencer theory and schematics, the Prophet
> 5 remote service and
> > > schematics, and update mod info
> > > > for the Rev 3.3 update. much of the P10
> section refers to the P5
> > > schematics.
> > > >
> > > > The basic differences between a P10 and a
> Rev 3.x P5 are: The
> > > P10's master tune is digitized whereas
> > > > the P5's is connected directly to the common
> analog circuit. The
> > > P10 also has 6k of PROM compared to
> > > > the P5's 2k to allow it to scan the keys and
> controls better to
> > > keep scanning delays down to a
> > > > maximum of 11ms.
> > > >
> > > > So if the machine is frozen, the best thing
> to do is to just start
> > > making sure that every CPU line looks
> > > > like it is doing the right thing, and then
> move on to each device
> > > on the data bus and see if it's chip
> > > > select input is working. If it is and you
> have gone through all of
> > > the basic troubleshooting that you
> > > > would expect to do with a microprocessor
> circuit, and it all seems
> > > to be running, then take a look a
> > > > the autotune circuitry, although this is
> unlikely as your TUNE led
> > > is not coming on.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "fsimon100"
> > > <fsimon001@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Steve,
> > > > > Thanks. Are these diagnostics tribal
> knowledge or are they
> > > > > documented in a manual. I do not hve the
> P10 manual. If I find
> > > one
> > > > > will it give me diags.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have disconnected the Seq board so
> obviously your saying it
> > > will
> > > > > run without it. Great. One system removed.
> I do have a z80 CPU
> > > to
> > > > > swap out.
> > > > >
> > > > > I was thinking the record switch was a
> microswitch so to enable
> > > > > would be a pull down or pull up Res on
> PCB.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "thirteentech"
> > > > > <thirteentech@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am not certain what the P10's last OS
> revision was, the
> > > highest
> > > > > that I have seen on a
> > > > > > Prophet 5 is V9.3. Looking at the
> schematics of the 2 machines
> > > the
> > > > > CPU board is similar,
> > > > > > they do have different EPROM and NV RAM
> chips. Also the P 10
> > > has
> > > > > different scanning
> > > > > > circuitry because it would have an
> unacceptable scan delay
> > > with 2
> > > > > keyboards as opposed
> > > > > > to the P5's 1 keyboard, which has a
> maximum delay of 10 Ms.
> > > The
>
=== message truncated ===
__________________________________________________________
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A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html2008-05-01 by thirteentech
If you are going to own and maintain a Prophet 10 then is is definately worth having the correct drawings for it, so it would be a good idea to get them I think. --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@...> wrote: > > Steve, > I got this from someone on the Web. Do you feel I need what he is selling? > This is his pitch: > [From what I've been told now, it seems you need the Rev. 3.3 > Service manual, plus the P10 addendum. > > I can provide the PDF files for the P5 Rev. 3.3 service manual > and the P10 Service Addendum on my website for you to download for a > total of $ 20.] > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: thirteentech > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 10:38 PM > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > It sounds like you know what you're doing, the only way to test the EPROM's (apart from > hung data or address lines) is to replace them. Have a look on some of the Prophet > websites to see if anyone has posted the EPROM images, but first eliminate everything > else by thorough faultfinding procedures. > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > Steve, > > Since I downloaded the P5 service manual (it only goes to rev 3.2) I have a much better > understanding of the system. It helps to have a good service manual. Before all I had was a > schematic only of the P10. I do have an Oscope and I may borrow a logic analyzer. I have > good troubleshooting skills. I have little microprocessor troubleshooting but as long as I > understand the flow, I know address and data bus and when a part of the system is > Computer Select from a Memory Address Decoder A10-A12 to take Adress from CPU to > output data to Data Bus. So I am going to probe the tune section (since you said that is > first operation) look for CS to the timer and status output then work towards the EPROM if > it gets CS. I think I will put a wire on CPU reset to ground instead of cycling power switch. > > > > In general I need to know sequence of events but isn't that from firmware programmed
> in the EPROM. That is where I need help. How do I know it is programmed properly. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: thirteentech > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 6:06 PM > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > Yes, it sounds like your computer is not running, and you are getting random LED's > when > > you power up. Do you have an oscilloscope and any experience troubleshooting > > microprocessors? If not, you will need someone who can I think. > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > Steve, > > > I down loaded a P5 service manual. It is very helpful and much > > > better print than the P10 schematic I have. I can now see the what > > > you meant by the subtractive synthesis gated by the CEM3310. I just > > > need to isolate why the control panel is dead. I have two LEDs light > > > up when I power up but not everytime I power up. I know the CPU is > > > good now. I'm thinking it has to be on the computer system and not > > > the Analog or synth section. Would you agree. Thanks for your help > > > and patience > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "thirteentech" > > > <thirteentech@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Well, I can't guarantee that the machine will run OK without the > > > sequencer, but it probably will, and is > > > > worth a try. I see one P10 for every dozen P5's that I service, so > > > unfortunately I don't have a P10 in the > > > > shop to look at directly. > > > > > > > > As for service manuals, Sequential put out a large folder called > > > the "Prophet Synthesizer and > > > > Polyphonic Sequencer System Technical Manual" which has the > > > Prophet 5 REV 3.0, 3.1 and 3.2 service, > > > > programming guide and schematics, the Prophet 10 theory, > > > schematics and parts list, and the Poly > > > > Sequencer theory and schematics, the Prophet 5 remote service and > > > schematics, and update mod info > > > > for the Rev 3.3 update. much of the P10 section refers to the P5 > > > schematics. > > > > > > > > The basic differences between a P10 and a Rev 3.x P5 are: The > > > P10's master tune is digitized whereas > > > > the P5's is connected directly to the common analog circuit. The > > > P10 also has 6k of PROM compared to > > > > the P5's 2k to allow it to scan the keys and controls better to > > > keep scanning delays down to a > > > > maximum of 11ms. > > > > > > > > So if the machine is frozen, the best thing to do is to just start > > > making sure that every CPU line looks > > > > like it is doing the right thing, and then move on to each device > > > on the data bus and see if it's chip > > > > select input is working. If it is and you have gone through all of > > > the basic troubleshooting that you > > > > would expect to do with a microprocessor circuit, and it all seems > > > to be running, then take a look a > > > > the autotune circuitry, although this is unlikely as your TUNE led > > > is not coming on. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" > > > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > Thanks. Are these diagnostics tribal knowledge or are they > > > > > documented in a manual. I do not hve the P10 manual. If I find > > > one > > > > > will it give me diags. > > > > > > > > > > I have disconnected the Seq board so obviously your saying it > > > will > > > > > run without it. Great. One system removed. I do have a z80 CPU > > > to > > > > > swap out. > > > > > > > > > > I was thinking the record switch was a microswitch so to enable > > > > > would be a pull down or pull up Res on PCB. > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "thirteentech" > > > > > <thirteentech@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not certain what the P10's last OS revision was, the > > > highest > > > > > that I have seen on a > > > > > > Prophet 5 is V9.3. Looking at the schematics of the 2 machines > > > the > > > > > CPU board is similar, > > > > > > they do have different EPROM and NV RAM chips. Also the P 10 > > > has > > > > > different scanning > > > > > > circuitry because it would have an unacceptable scan delay > > > with 2 > > > > > keyboards as opposed > > > > > > to the P5's 1 keyboard, which has a maximum delay of 10 Ms. > > > The > > > > > scanner also scans all of > > > > > > the buttons during each cycle. > > > > > > > > > > > > For what it's worth (not knowing if it also applies to the P- > > > 10), > > > > > to enter the CPU and RAM > > > > > > test on a late rev. Prophet 5, turn off the power, put the > > > record > > > > > switch to "enabled", and > > > > > > jumper test point 304 (MEM TEST) to plus 5V, then turn on. The > > > > > machine starts > > > > > > sequentially flashing it's LED's, to then enter the memory > > > test, > > > > > press TUNE. It runs through > > > > > > 4 tests, counting 1-4 as it does them, and finishes on 0, > > > > > indication no failures. If it stops > > > > > > on 1-4, it is indication a failure of either the scratchpad > > > RAM, > > > > > NV RAM, PROM or 8253 > > > > > > timer (1,2,3 and 4). > > > > > > > > > > > > I haven't used these tests on a P10, so I don't know if they > > > > > apply, but otherwise maybe the > > > > > > best idea would be to disconnect the sequencer board and just > > > > > start the usual traditional > > > > > > checking of the main CPU lines to see if any of the data or > > > > > address lines are hung. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" > > > > > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Brd 3 there are three EPROMs with the Z80 CPU. The first > > > > > says: 0 TEN 5.0, second > > > > > > says: 1 TEN 5.0, third says: 2 TEN 5.0 on their stickers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Brd 9 there is one EPROM with the Z80 CPU. The sticker on > > > it > > > > > is not too legible what I > > > > > > do see is: SEQ (that part is clear) below it say C1 or C.1 or > > > I > > > > > was thinking maybe 2.1( if > > > > > > upper half of 2 was missing). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both Z80s on pin 6 CLK have 2.5MHz clock at about 4v p-p. > > > and 5v > > > > > dc on pin 11. Does > > > > > > the EPROM lose all programming if battery dies? If so how do > > > you > > > > > reload? Will keyboard > > > > > > not boot without EPROM program. My friend today is bringing me > > > a > > > > > Z80 CPU in so I can > > > > > > swap out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 7:47 AM > > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair (was > > > Hi > > > > > from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is written on the stickers on the EPROMS? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" > > > > > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know. How do I find this out. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Stephen Jones > > > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:14 AM > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 repair > > > (was > > > > > Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which Rev. Processor board do you have? All the Rev. > > > > > > > > 3.1 and 3.2 Prophet 5's have a built in memory test, > > > > > > > > and latest software versions also have a basic CPU > > > > > > > > test. Which software version do you have? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > > > > The TUNE LED does not come on. Since I am four > > > > > > > > > CEM3310s short, should certain slots be populated > > > > > > > > > just to get boot up? All the supplies are up. I am > > > > > > > > > suspicious of PCB9 due to the 12v applied and you > > > > > > > > > mentioned EQ board. There are a couple IC's that are > > > > > > > > > warm on the EQ board but not so hot I can't keep my > > > > > > > > > finger on it. Can you offer a couple key > > > > > > > > > troubleshooting spots for measurements to help me > > > > > > > > > isolate this? I'm assuming I have no way to bless > > > > > > > > > the Processor. All I have is an Oscope, function > > > > > > > > > generator, and multimeter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@...m > > > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:21 AM > > > > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 > > > > > > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you turn the machine on the front panel > > > > > > > > > should be dark with the exception of the > > > > > > > > > [TUNE] switch. The machine boots into it's > > > > > > > > > autotune mode and suppresses all of the front > > > > > > > > > panel lights and controls while it does so. it > > > > > > > > > should take 8-10 seconds if the machine is > > > > > > > > > functional, longer if voices are way out of > > > > > > > > > calibration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does the TUNE button LED come on when you power > > > > > > > > > up? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank > > > > > > > > > Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > > > > > I have all power supplies in order. There is > > > > > > > > > power to all boards. When I turn it on > > > > > > > > > shouldn't it boot up and LED's cycle on or blink > > > > > > > > > or even be switchable? The panel is dead. > > > > > > > > > Does this sound like processor to you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:07 AM > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 > > > > > > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each of the 5 voices on each voice board has two > > > > > > > > > CEM3310 envelope generators. One > > > > > > > > > > controls the volume envelope of the voice, and > > > > > > > > > the other controls the filter cutoff of > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > voice if you bring up the filter envelope > > > > > > > > > modulation control. If the 3310's in the filter > > > > > > > > > > control line are faulty it should only manifest > > > > > > > > > when you turn on the filter envelope > > > > > > > > > > modulation. If this is off then the voice should > > > > > > > > > sound if the VCF cutoff pot is set open. > > > > > > > > > If > > > > > > > > > > you have bad 3310's in the VCA envelpoe > > > > > > > > > position, the voice won't sound. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am assuming that your P10 has Rev 3.x Prophet > > > > > > > > > 5 voice boards in it, because in the > > > > > > > > > > Sequential System Technical manual which covers > > > > > > > > > all Prophets from Rev 3.0-3.2, the > > > > > > > > > > Prophet 10 and the Poly Sequencer, they all use > > > > > > > > > the same basic voice board. So for > > > > > > > > > > instance, in Voice 1 of the voice board, U412 is > > > > > > > > > the amplifier envelope generator, and > > > > > > > > > > U417 is the filter envelope generator. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > > > > > "Frank Simon" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > > > > > > I am pleased to know there is a technique to > > > > > > > > > troube this with the bad ICs. I hope to > > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > to that point soon. If I remember there were no > > > > > > > > > LEDs on control panel lit when turned > > > > > > > > > on. > > > > > > > > > > Is there a local spot that isolates that > > > > > > > > > symptom? I haven't removed the top boards yet. > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully I can handle that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess I am confused on VCA and VCF envelope > > > > > > > > > positions. Can you give me a > > > > > > > > > > explanation of how to determine which state the > > > > > > > > > IC is in. > > > > > > > > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: thirteentech > > > > > > > > > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:04 PM > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 > > > > > > > > > repair (was Hi from a new member). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, if you have metered all of the power > > > > > > > > > supply rails in the machine, and are > > > > > > > > > satisfied > > > > > > > > > > > that they are all in spec, then go ahead and > > > > > > > > > put the voice boards back in. Remove the > > > > > > > > > > > known bad 3310's, and if any were in VCA > > > > > > > > > ENVELOPE positions, replace them with > > > > > > > > > > 3310's > > > > > > > > > > > from VCF ENVELOPE positions. This will allow > > > > > > > > > you to set up a patch with the VCF > > > > > > > > > > envelopes > > > > > > > > > > > control turned off and still have all of the > > > > > > > > > voices audible so that you can hear is all > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > voices are working. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The EQ board on P10's was another source of > > > > > > > > > problems too of you don't get any > > > > > > > > > > sound. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the sequencer board, the best way to > > > > > > > > > test functionality is to get the rest of the > > > > > > > > > > > machine basically playing and then just try > > > > > > > > > out the sequencer and see if it loads and > > > > > > > > > > plays > > > > > > > > > > > back notes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sounds like your power supply lines are the > > > > > > > > > most important issue, so as I mentioned, > > > > > > > > > > put > > > > > > > > > > > all your attention on them being correct > > > > > > > > > first. There are lots of CEM3310's in the > > > > > > > > > > machine, > > > > > > > > > > > so you can definately get the machine playing > > > > > > > > > without 4 of them, just make sure that > > > > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > > > are good chips in the VCA envelope positions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > > > > > "fsimon100" <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, obviously I have a Rev 1. My > > > > > > > > > schematic is a scanned copy and > > > > > > > > > > > > didn't see the note and still don't but I > > > > > > > > > know you are correct. What > > > > > > > > > > > > do you think I could have damaged with the > > > > > > > > > 12v I put in? Like I said > > > > > > > > > > > > U931 shorted and got hot. I know that may be > > > > > > > > > a tough question > > > > > > > > > > > > without personally probing but the board is > > > > > > > > > holding the 5v now. How > > > > > > > > > > > > could I verify functionality of PCB9. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also if I put one of the voice boards in > > > > > > > > > with 4 CEM3310 missing can > > > > > > > > > > > > I continue troubleshooting? Is there a > > > > > > > > > chance I could get confidence > > > > > > > > > > > > from a oscope or panel lights before I buy > > > > > > > > > four CEMs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > > > > > "thirteentech" > > > > > > > > > > > > <thirteentech@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Prophet 10 service manual shows that > > > > > > > > > U603 is a +5V for rev. 1 > > > > > > > > > > > > machines, or +12V for Rev. 0 machines. It > > > > > > > > > looks like that supply is > > > > > > > > > > > > for either a 5V > > > > > > > > > > > > > cassette drive or a 12V wafer drive > > > > > > > > > depending on which version of > > > > > > > > > > > > machine you have, but the schematic also > > > > > > > > > shows a note on the 5.6V > > > > > > > > > > > > rail of the PSU > > > > > > > > > > > > > saying: "To PCB 9, Rev 0, not used for Rev > > > > > > > > > 1". So depending on > > > > > > > > > > > > whether you have a Rev 0 or Rev 1, there > > > > > > > > > will be different supplies > > > > > > > > > > > > on P603 pins 2 and > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > > > > > "Frank Simon" > > > > > > > > > > > > <fsimon001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Steve, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a manual I downloaded from > > > > > > > > > paintingwithsound.com. It is > > > > > > > > > > > > hard to read. I was a little disappointed > > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > > > > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > > > > > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >