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2008-08-03 by baumont987
Hi, Not sure that these displays are 100% compatible with the FG405A2 of the Xpander, but someone in the US is selling 25 Noritake 40 digits VFDs, ref CU406ECPB-U2A. I tried to find the datasheet, but with no success. Auction ends the 4 august. http://cgi.ebay.com/25-Noritake-itron-VFD-Display-CU406ECPB-U2A-40-Digit_W0QQitemZ110274834077QQcmdZViewItem?IMSfp=TL08072912129r16414
2008-08-03 by William Cason
That looks very tempting. I went to the Noritake site http://www.noritake-elec.com/tversion.htm and found a CU406 number, but not exactly the same. The series looks like a dot matrix, not 14 char alphanumeric (Xpander M12 style). I downloaded the datasheet which spoke of async serial and 8 bit parallel interfaces... my feeling is they're prob not drop-in compatible, but I wonder if slight mods would get you a dot-matrix version replacement. For example, it the new CU406xxxx display were looking for ASCII parallel interface to access its built-in character set (I think they are) and you found a similar point in the Xpander's CPU->display electronics, perhaps it could be cobbled on. Any thoughts from anyone else? R --- On Sun, 8/3/08, baumont987 <geebeex@...> wrote:
From: baumont987 <geebeex@...> Subject: [xpantastic] Noritake displays on ebay To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 5:39 AM Hi, Not sure that these displays are 100% compatible with the FG405A2 of the Xpander, but someone in the US is selling 25 Noritake 40 digits VFDs, ref CU406ECPB-U2A. I tried to find the datasheet, but with no success. Auction ends the 4 august. http://cgi.ebay. com/25-Noritake- itron-VFD- Display-CU406ECP B-U2A-40- Digit_W0QQitemZ1 10274834077QQcmd ZViewItem? IMSfp=TL08072912 129r16414
2008-08-03 by baumont987
After some googling, it appears that this CU406ECPB-U2A is not compatible with the FG (in size and electrically), event if it looks similar. An another guy on ebay did use this one for a DIY project. Nice pictures: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Noritake-40x1-VFD-Display-large-txt-Customed-4-Desktop_W0QQitemZ150277599130QQihZ005QQcategoryZ105787QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem My Xpander displays are working fine, It was just my 2 cents for people looking for a replacement solution (and perhaps for me in the future,who knows...) --- In xpantastic@yahoogroups.com, William Cason <randycason102@...> wrote: > > That looks very tempting. I went to the Noritake site > http://www.noritake-elec.com/tversion.htm > and found a CU406 number, but not exactly the same. The series looks like a dot matrix, not 14 char alphanumeric (Xpander M12 style). I downloaded the datasheet which spoke of async serial and 8 bit parallel interfaces... my feeling is they're prob not drop-in compatible, but I wonder if slight mods would get you a dot-matrix version replacement. For example, it the new CU406xxxx display were looking for ASCII parallel interface to access its built-in character set (I think they are) and you found a similar point in the Xpander's CPU->display electronics, perhaps it could be cobbled on. > > Any thoughts from anyone else? > > R > --- On Sun, 8/3/08, baumont987 <geebeex@...> wrote: > > From: baumont987 <geebeex@...> > Subject: [xpantastic] Noritake displays on ebay > To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 5:39 AM > > > > > > > Hi, > > Not sure that these displays are 100% compatible with the FG405A2 of > the Xpander, but someone in the US is selling 25 Noritake 40 digits > VFDs, ref CU406ECPB-U2A. > > I tried to find the datasheet, but with no success. > > Auction ends the 4 august. > http://cgi.ebay. com/25-Noritake- itron-VFD- Display-CU406ECP B-U2A-40- Digit_W0QQitemZ1 10274834077QQcmd ZViewItem? IMSfp=TL08072912 129r16414 >
2008-08-04 by envia94
Hi, There are not any direct replacements for the original displays. Noritake tells that in their newer components there are buit-in electronics, which is missing from the original Xpander displays.
2008-08-04 by William Cason
Hi, If absolutely necessary, I think a new display board could be created for M12/Xpander that would decode the grid/anode signals to the original VFD's and create the new signals to drive newer displays like the ones on ebay the other day. This could be a simple lookup table and state machine in an FPGA for example (I'm an FPGA designer). It would give an opportunity for a slightly different display as well (e.g. VFD dot matrix, 15 segment LED) Does anyone know the failure rate of the VFD's (like ever?) Are they one of the first things to go? Randy --- On Mon, 8/4/08, envia94 <akva@...> wrote:
From: envia94 <akva@...> Subject: [xpantastic] Re: Noritake displays on ebay To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 12:23 AM Hi, There are not any direct replacements for the original displays. Noritake tells that in their newer components there are buit-in electronics, which is missing from the original Xpander displays.
2008-08-04 by envia94
Hi Randy, The displays are not the first things to go. CEM and other chips go first. However, there are no spare displays available anywhere unless you'd buy an other Xpander for spare parts. And, that is not cheap, ofcourse. To my knowledge you can still get most CEM chips and even the rarest one, i.e. CEM3374 do appear sometimes for sale. Several people have got a number of spare chips, but I have heard of only one person with 'new' spare displays, AND, he is not selling them as components. This is the person in USA, who bought the last stock from Noritake. Tiitu
2008-08-04 by envia94
The value of an Xpander display is easily over 100 EUR ...
2008-08-04 by Jeremy Smith
envia94 wrote:
> The value of an Xpander display is easily over 100 EUR ...
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Used parts Xpander for sale (I'm not sure if ads are allowed on the
list, but I don't see why not - it's not mine) . All but the PSU are fine.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Oberheim-Xpander-Synth-module-not-working-parts-only_W0QQitemZ200243959317QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item200243959317&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177
Jeremy.2008-08-04 by chenedward69
With my luck my M12 just lost 2 character segments last nite on one of the displays. I contacted Armen here in NYC directly knowing he is the only one who has stock of the displays what the cost of one is and of course he says I would need to bring the whole unit in to get it serviced before he can determine a price? WTF? I asked if I can just bring the display board and have him just replace the one display instead of lugging the whole board in and he said no, no he needs the whole unit. When I mention I was out of state and didn't want to make a useless trip if the price was out of my range he then throws out a quote that it could be $350 - $500?? and also depending what else needs serviced?? As I clearly stated to him there was nothing else needed to be done besides the one display he says well just bring it in and we'll discuss..knowing his shadiness from having dealt with him in the past he would have probabaly swap some parts out of it to make it defective and then turnaround and jack me up for other repair costs. That is why I have no intention of bringing the whole unit in and will just avoid him totally. Thought I share my .02 experience. So if anyone has a display for sale please let me know? ;) --- In xpantastic@yahoogroups.com, "envia94" <akva@...> wrote:
> > The value of an Xpander display is easily over 100 EUR ... >
2008-08-04 by John Pallister
Hi Randy, I think you're right, and this is the only long-term solution for keeping otherwise-functional Xpanders going once their displays start to give out. I suspect that actually fitting the adapter board and the new display into the very narrow space available would be as tricky as designing the interface. An alternative would be to couple a new display with new firmware and a new daughterboard that received the ribbon cable to the display board and pulled out the (re-purposed) display signals; then the new firmware could drive the new display directly. This is obviously a lot more work, but there really isn't much space to fit anything between the case and the existing display board... Cheers, John :^P William Cason wrote: > > > Hi, > > If absolutely necessary, I think a new display board could be created > for M12/Xpander that would decode the grid/anode signals to the original > VFD's and create the new signals to drive newer displays like the ones > on ebay the other day. This could be a simple lookup table and state > machine in an FPGA for example (I'm an FPGA designer). It would give an > opportunity for a slightly different display as well (e.g. VFD dot > matrix, 15 segment LED) > > Does anyone know the failure rate of the VFD's (like ever?) Are they > one of the first things to go? > > Randy -- John Pallister john@...
2008-08-05 by William Cason
Chenedward69, Are you sure it's not a driver IC problem (the 6118's referenced in the service manual)? That would be much easier to fix than replacing the VFD! Did you mean two segments of one digit, or two entire digits? Randy --- On Mon, 8/4/08, chenedward69 <chenedward69@...> wrote: From: chenedward69 <chenedward69@...> Subject: [xpantastic] Re: Noritake displays on ebay To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 3:57 PM With my luck my M12 just lost 2 character segments last nite on one of the displays. I contacted Armen here in NYC directly knowing he is the only one who has stock of the displays what the cost of one is and of course he says I would need to bring the whole unit in to get it serviced before he can determine a price? WTF? I asked if I can just bring the display board and have him just replace the one display instead of lugging the whole board in and he said no, no he needs the whole unit. When I mention I was out of state and didn't want to make a useless trip if the price was out of my range he then throws out a quote that it could be $350 - $500?? and also depending what else needs serviced?? As I clearly stated to him there was nothing else needed to be done besides the one display he says well just bring it in and we'll discuss..knowing his shadiness from having dealt with him in the past he would have probabaly swap some parts out of it to make it defective and then turnaround and jack me up for other repair costs. That is why I have no intention of bringing the whole unit in and will just avoid him totally. Thought I share my .02 experience. So if anyone has a display for sale please let me know? ;) --- In xpantastic@yahoogro ups.com, "envia94" <akva@...> wrote:
> > The value of an Xpander display is easily over 100 EUR ... >
2008-08-05 by Edward Chen
Hi Randy, Thanks much for taking the time to reply. It is actually two entire digits, I believe the 4th and 25th on the display. As I am not a tech, are you saying it may be an IC related issue and possibly fixable? Rgds, Eddie --- On Mon, 8/4/08, William Cason <randycason102@...> wrote: From: William Cason <randycason102@...> Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Re: Noritake displays on ebay To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 8:21 PM Chenedward69, Are you sure it's not a driver IC problem (the 6118's referenced in the service manual)? That would be much easier to fix than replacing the VFD! Did you mean two segments of one digit, or two entire digits? Randy --- On Mon, 8/4/08, chenedward69 <chenedward69@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: chenedward69 <chenedward69@ yahoo.com> Subject: [xpantastic] Re: Noritake displays on ebay To: xpantastic@yahoogro ups.com Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 3:57 PM With my luck my M12 just lost 2 character segments last nite on one of the displays. I contacted Armen here in NYC directly knowing he is the only one who has stock of the displays what the cost of one is and of course he says I would need to bring the whole unit in to get it serviced before he can determine a price? WTF? I asked if I can just bring the display board and have him just replace the one display instead of lugging the whole board in and he said no, no he needs the whole unit. When I mention I was out of state and didn't want to make a useless trip if the price was out of my range he then throws out a quote that it could be $350 - $500?? and also depending what else needs serviced?? As I clearly stated to him there was nothing else needed to be done besides the one display he says well just bring it in and we'll discuss..knowing his shadiness from having dealt with him in the past he would have probabaly swap some parts out of it to make it defective and then turnaround and jack me up for other repair costs. That is why I have no intention of bringing the whole unit in and will just avoid him totally. Thought I share my .02 experience. So if anyone has a display for sale please let me know? ;) --- In xpantastic@yahoogro ups.com, "envia94" <akva@...> wrote:
> > The value of an Xpander display is easily over 100 EUR ... >
2008-08-05 by William Cason
Hi John, I was thinking an entirely new display board would replace the old one, recieving the same signals the 4028's did on the old board. It would be the same and shape as the old one. It appears there's an address bus (LA on the schematic) that's decoded to drive the grids of each digit, and data bus to drive the segments. An FPGA would be well suited to converting these signals to say, an async (UART) serial stream to ASCII display. Like you said, it would recieve signals via the ribbon from the main processor. Once the PC board was spun of course many copies could be made.... Those VFDs on ebay would have looked kind of cool... Then I'd have the "Dot-Matrix-12" (yuk yuk) Randy R --- On Mon, 8/4/08, John Pallister <john@...> wrote:
From: John Pallister <john@...> Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Re: Noritake displays on ebay To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 4:55 PM Hi Randy, I think you're right, and this is the only long-term solution for keeping otherwise-functiona l Xpanders going once their displays start to give out. I suspect that actually fitting the adapter board and the new display into the very narrow space available would be as tricky as designing the interface. An alternative would be to couple a new display with new firmware and a new daughterboard that received the ribbon cable to the display board and pulled out the (re-purposed) display signals; then the new firmware could drive the new display directly. This is obviously a lot more work, but there really isn't much space to fit anything between the case and the existing display board... Cheers, John :^P William Cason wrote: > > > Hi, > > If absolutely necessary, I think a new display board could be created > for M12/Xpander that would decode the grid/anode signals to the original > VFD's and create the new signals to drive newer displays like the ones > on ebay the other day. This could be a simple lookup table and state > machine in an FPGA for example (I'm an FPGA designer). It would give an > opportunity for a slightly different display as well (e.g. VFD dot > matrix, 15 segment LED) > > Does anyone know the failure rate of the VFD's (like ever?) Are they > one of the first things to go? > > Randy -- John Pallister john@synchromesh. com
2008-08-05 by William Cason
Well... First, I'm an electrical engineer but not a tech, but I'll do my best. I'm thinking it's something related to the grids for those digits. That's the mesh that goes between the filaments (the really fine horizontal wires that go the entire lenght of the display) and the phosphor digit-segments. If they have a problem it affect the whole digit. Unfortunately, it seems from the schematic that the grid driver chips drive all three display's grids ganged together (e.g. grid 1 from disps 1, 2, and 3 are driven by the same chip driver). That means it might not be a chip, or you'd have the same digits missing on all 3 displays (do you? did you run the display test in the service page?) It would be interesting to open your OB and hinge down the display board (it's on hinges). Then see of you can see very tiny wires inside the VFDs running from the pins to the grids for those digits; are they broken? If so, that's the worst case I suppose, need new displays. If you have any friends with oscilloscopes, it would be good to check the signals on the grid 4 and grid 25 pins of that display when it's running; are there 55V pulses? I'm also wondering, what brought on the problem on TWO digits simultaneously? (don't thing old age alone would explain the coincidence) Randy --- On Mon, 8/4/08, Edward Chen <chenedward69@...> wrote: From: Edward Chen <chenedward69@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Re: Noritake displays on ebay To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 8:28 PM Hi Randy, Thanks much for taking the time to reply. It is actually two entire digits, I believe the 4th and 25th on the display. As I am not a tech, are you saying it may be an IC related issue and possibly fixable? Rgds, Eddie --- On Mon, 8/4/08, William Cason <randycason102@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: William Cason <randycason102@ yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Re: Noritake displays on ebay To: xpantastic@yahoogro ups.com Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 8:21 PM Chenedward69, Are you sure it's not a driver IC problem (the 6118's referenced in the service manual)? That would be much easier to fix than replacing the VFD! Did you mean two segments of one digit, or two entire digits? Randy --- On Mon, 8/4/08, chenedward69 <chenedward69@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: chenedward69 <chenedward69@ yahoo.com> Subject: [xpantastic] Re: Noritake displays on ebay To: xpantastic@yahoogro ups.com Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 3:57 PM With my luck my M12 just lost 2 character segments last nite on one of the displays. I contacted Armen here in NYC directly knowing he is the only one who has stock of the displays what the cost of one is and of course he says I would need to bring the whole unit in to get it serviced before he can determine a price? WTF? I asked if I can just bring the display board and have him just replace the one display instead of lugging the whole board in and he said no, no he needs the whole unit. When I mention I was out of state and didn't want to make a useless trip if the price was out of my range he then throws out a quote that it could be $350 - $500?? and also depending what else needs serviced?? As I clearly stated to him there was nothing else needed to be done besides the one display he says well just bring it in and we'll discuss..knowing his shadiness from having dealt with him in the past he would have probabaly swap some parts out of it to make it defective and then turnaround and jack me up for other repair costs. That is why I have no intention of bringing the whole unit in and will just avoid him totally. Thought I share my .02 experience. So if anyone has a display for sale please let me know? ;) --- In xpantastic@yahoogro ups.com, "envia94" <akva@...> wrote:
> > The value of an Xpander display is easily over 100 EUR ... >
2008-08-05 by Tony Cappellini
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 6:10 PM, William Cason <randycason102@...> wrote: > Well... > > First, I'm an electrical engineer but not a tech, but I'll do my best. > so, that's the worst case I suppose, need new displays. If you have any > friends with oscilloscopes, it would be good to check the signals on the > grid 4 and grid 25 pins of that display when it's running; are there 55V > pulses? If you go into test mode, you can turn each segment on /off one at a time and go back and forth from digit to digit. Depending on which pins are easily accessible with a scope, you should be able to easily find out if the driver IC(s) or the displays are faulty.
2008-08-05 by chenedward69
Thanks again for the reply. Yes, I have already removed the screws and brought down the display board. There was no broken wires or loose contacts. Going through the Test for the display you can automatically tell it is on the left display only on the 11th and 22nd digits. They do not light up even as you scroll through all 40. The other two displays are perfectly fine. I even tried swapping the 6118 chips around and still the issue remains in the left display. This unit was never serviced and it's been a about a couple months since I powered it up. Last time I did everything was working perfectly so have no clue what would have been the cause. Other than this issue all else is fine. Eddie In xpantastic@yahoogroups.com, William Cason <randycason102@...> wrote: > > Well... > > First, I'm an electrical engineer but not a tech, but I'll do my best. > > I'm thinking it's something related to the grids for those digits. That's the mesh that goes between the filaments (the really fine horizontal wires that go the entire lenght of the display) and the phosphor digit-segments. If they have a problem it affect the whole digit. Unfortunately, it seems from the schematic that the grid driver chips drive all three display's grids ganged together (e.g. grid 1 from disps 1, 2, and 3 are driven by the same chip driver). That means it might not be a chip, or you'd have the same digits missing on all 3 displays (do you? did you run the display test in the service page?) > > It would be interesting to open your OB and hinge down the display board (it's on hinges). Then see of you can see very tiny wires inside the VFDs running from the pins to the grids for those digits; are they broken? If so, that's the worst case I suppose, need new displays. If you have any friends with oscilloscopes, it would be good to check the signals on the grid 4 and grid 25 pins of that display when it's running; are there 55V pulses? > > I'm also wondering, what brought on the problem on TWO digits simultaneously? (don't thing old age alone would explain the coincidence) > > Randy > > --- On Mon, 8/4/08, Edward Chen <chenedward69@...> wrote: > > From: Edward Chen <chenedward69@...> > Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Re: Noritake displays on ebay > To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 8:28 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Randy, > Thanks much for taking the time to reply. It is actually two entire digits, I believe the 4th and 25th on the display. > As I am not a tech, are you saying it may be an IC related issue and possibly fixable? > Rgds, > Eddie > > --- On Mon, 8/4/08, William Cason <randycason102@ yahoo.com> wrote: > > From: William Cason <randycason102@ yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Re: Noritake displays on ebay > To: xpantastic@yahoogro ups.com > Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 8:21 PM > > > > > > > > > > Chenedward69, > > Are you sure it's not a driver IC problem (the 6118's referenced in the service manual)? > That would be much easier to fix than replacing the VFD! > > Did you mean two segments of one digit, or two entire digits? > > Randy > > --- On Mon, 8/4/08, chenedward69 <chenedward69@ yahoo.com> wrote: > > From: chenedward69 <chenedward69@ yahoo.com> > Subject: [xpantastic] Re: Noritake displays on ebay > To: xpantastic@yahoogro ups.com > Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 3:57 PM > > > > > With my luck my M12 just lost 2 character segments last nite on one > of the displays. I contacted Armen here in NYC directly knowing he > is the only one who has stock of the displays what the cost of one is > and of course he says I would need to bring the whole unit in to get > it serviced before he can determine a price? WTF? I asked if I can > just bring the display board and have him just replace the one > display instead of lugging the whole board in and he said no, no he > needs the whole unit. When I mention I was out of state and didn't > want to make a useless trip if the price was out of my range he then > throws out a quote that it could be $350 - $500?? and also depending > what else needs serviced?? As I clearly stated to him there was > nothing else needed to be done besides the one display he says well > just bring it in and we'll discuss..knowing his shadiness from having > dealt with him in the past he would have probabaly swap some parts > out of it to make it defective and then turnaround and jack me up for
> other repair costs. That is why I have no intention of bringing the > whole unit in and will just avoid him totally. Thought I share > my .02 experience. > > So if anyone has a display for sale please let me know? ;) > > --- In xpantastic@yahoogro ups.com, "envia94" <akva@> wrote: > > > > The value of an Xpander display is easily over 100 EUR ... > > >
2008-08-05 by William Cason
Sorry to hear that. A long shot, but you could try swapping around the 4028s that drive the 6118s to see if they'rd bad (swap u6 and u8 with others)... you swapped u5 and u7 with other 6118s before? --- On Mon, 8/4/08, chenedward69 <chenedward69@...> wrote: From: chenedward69 <chenedward69@...> Subject: [xpantastic] Re: Noritake displays on ebay To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 9:36 PM Thanks again for the reply. Yes, I have already removed the screws and brought down the display board. There was no broken wires or loose contacts. Going through the Test for the display you can automatically tell it is on the left display only on the 11th and 22nd digits. They do not light up even as you scroll through all 40. The other two displays are perfectly fine. I even tried swapping the 6118 chips around and still the issue remains in the left display. This unit was never serviced and it's been a about a couple months since I powered it up. Last time I did everything was working perfectly so have no clue what would have been the cause. Other than this issue all else is fine. Eddie In xpantastic@yahoogro ups.com, William Cason <randycason102@ ...> wrote: > > Well... > > First, I'm an electrical engineer but not a tech, but I'll do my best. > > I'm thinking it's something related to the grids for those digits. That's the mesh that goes between the filaments (the really fine horizontal wires that go the entire lenght of the display) and the phosphor digit- segments. If they have a problem it affect the whole digit. Unfortunately, it seems from the schematic that the grid driver chips drive all three display's grids ganged together (e.g. grid 1 from disps 1, 2, and 3 are driven by the same chip driver). That means it might not be a chip, or you'd have the same digits missing on all 3 displays (do you? did you run the display test in the service page?) > > It would be interesting to open your OB and hinge down the display board (it's on hinges). Then see of you can see very tiny wires inside the VFDs running from the pins to the grids for those digits; are they broken? If so, that's the worst case I suppose, need new displays. If you have any friends with oscilloscopes, it would be good to check the signals on the grid 4 and grid 25 pins of that display when it's running; are there 55V pulses? > > I'm also wondering, what brought on the problem on TWO digits simultaneously? (don't thing old age alone would explain the coincidence) > > Randy > > --- On Mon, 8/4/08, Edward Chen <chenedward69@ ...> wrote: > > From: Edward Chen <chenedward69@ ...> > Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Re: Noritake displays on ebay > To: xpantastic@yahoogro ups.com > Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 8:28 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Randy, > Thanks much for taking the time to reply. It is actually two entire digits, I believe the 4th and 25th on the display. > As I am not a tech, are you saying it may be an IC related issue and possibly fixable? > Rgds, > Eddie > > --- On Mon, 8/4/08, William Cason <randycason102@ yahoo.com> wrote: > > From: William Cason <randycason102@ yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Re: Noritake displays on ebay > To: xpantastic@yahoogro ups.com > Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 8:21 PM > > > > > > > > > > Chenedward69, > > Are you sure it's not a driver IC problem (the 6118's referenced in the service manual)? > That would be much easier to fix than replacing the VFD! > > Did you mean two segments of one digit, or two entire digits? > > Randy > > --- On Mon, 8/4/08, chenedward69 <chenedward69@ yahoo.com> wrote: > > From: chenedward69 <chenedward69@ yahoo.com> > Subject: [xpantastic] Re: Noritake displays on ebay > To: xpantastic@yahoogro ups.com > Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 3:57 PM > > > > > With my luck my M12 just lost 2 character segments last nite on one > of the displays. I contacted Armen here in NYC directly knowing he > is the only one who has stock of the displays what the cost of one is > and of course he says I would need to bring the whole unit in to get > it serviced before he can determine a price? WTF? I asked if I can > just bring the display board and have him just replace the one > display instead of lugging the whole board in and he said no, no he > needs the whole unit. When I mention I was out of state and didn't > want to make a useless trip if the price was out of my range he then > throws out a quote that it could be $350 - $500?? and also depending > what else needs serviced?? As I clearly stated to him there was > nothing else needed to be done besides the one display he says well > just bring it in and we'll discuss..knowing his shadiness from having > dealt with him in the past he would have probabaly swap some parts > out of it to make it defective and then turnaround and jack me up for
> other repair costs. That is why I have no intention of bringing the > whole unit in and will just avoid him totally. Thought I share > my .02 experience. > > So if anyone has a display for sale please let me know? ;) > > --- In xpantastic@yahoogro ups.com, "envia94" <akva@> wrote: > > > > The value of an Xpander display is easily over 100 EUR ... > > >
2008-08-05 by chenedward69
Hi Randy, Yes I've even already tried the swapping of the 4028s on u6 and u8 as well as u5 and u7 which pertained to the 11th and 22nd segments to no avail as the issue still remained in that one display. I will continue researching and let you guys know if anything comes about. Once again than you so much for your time and assistance. Kind Rgds, Eddie --- In xpantastic@yahoogroups.com, William Cason <randycason102@...> wrote: > > Sorry to hear that. > A long shot, but you could try swapping around the 4028s that drive the 6118s to see if they'rd bad (swap u6 and u8 with others)... you swapped u5 and u7 with other 6118s before? > > > --- On Mon, 8/4/08, chenedward69 <chenedward69@...> wrote: > > From: chenedward69 <chenedward69@...> > Subject: [xpantastic] Re: Noritake displays on ebay > To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 9:36 PM > > > > > > > Thanks again for the reply. Yes, I have already removed the screws > and brought down the display board. There was no broken wires or > loose contacts. Going through the Test for the display you can > automatically tell it is on the left display only on the 11th and > 22nd digits. They do not light up even as you scroll through all > 40. The other two displays are perfectly fine. I even tried > swapping the 6118 chips around and still the issue remains in the > left display. > This unit was never serviced and it's been a about a couple months > since I powered it up. Last time I did everything was working > perfectly so have no clue what would have been the cause. Other than > this issue all else is fine. > > Eddie > > In xpantastic@yahoogro ups.com, William Cason <randycason102@ ...> > wrote: > > > > Well... > > > > First, I'm an electrical engineer but not a tech, but I'll do my > best. > > > > I'm thinking it's something related to the grids for those digits. > That's the mesh that goes between the filaments (the really fine > horizontal wires that go the entire lenght of the display) and the > phosphor digit- segments. If they have a problem it affect the whole > digit. Unfortunately, it seems from the schematic that the grid > driver chips drive all three display's grids ganged together (e.g. > grid 1 from disps 1, 2, and 3 are driven by the same chip driver). > That means it might not be a chip, or you'd have the same digits > missing on all 3 displays (do you? did you run the display test in > the service page?) > > > > It would be interesting to open your OB and hinge down the display > board (it's on hinges). Then see of you can see very tiny wires > inside the VFDs running from the pins to the grids for those digits; > are they broken? If so, that's the worst case I suppose, need new > displays. If you have any friends with oscilloscopes, it would be > good to check the signals on the grid 4 and grid 25 pins of that > display when it's running; are there 55V pulses? > > > > I'm also wondering, what brought on the problem on TWO digits > simultaneously? (don't thing old age alone would explain the > coincidence) > > > > Randy > > > > --- On Mon, 8/4/08, Edward Chen <chenedward69@ ...> wrote: > > > > From: Edward Chen <chenedward69@ ...> > > Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Re: Noritake displays on ebay > > To: xpantastic@yahoogro ups.com > > Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 8:28 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Randy, > > Thanks much for taking the time to reply. It is actually two > entire digits, I believe the 4th and 25th on the display. > > As I am not a tech, are you saying it may be an IC related issue > and possibly fixable? > > Rgds, > > Eddie > > > > --- On Mon, 8/4/08, William Cason <randycason102@ yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > From: William Cason <randycason102@ yahoo.com> > > Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Re: Noritake displays on ebay > > To: xpantastic@yahoogro ups.com > > Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 8:21 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chenedward69, > > > > Are you sure it's not a driver IC problem (the 6118's referenced in > the service manual)? > > That would be much easier to fix than replacing the VFD! > > > > Did you mean two segments of one digit, or two entire digits? > > > > Randy > > > > --- On Mon, 8/4/08, chenedward69 <chenedward69@ yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > From: chenedward69 <chenedward69@ yahoo.com> > > Subject: [xpantastic] Re: Noritake displays on ebay > > To: xpantastic@yahoogro ups.com > > Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 3:57 PM > > > > > > > > > > With my luck my M12 just lost 2 character segments last nite on one > > of the displays. I contacted Armen here in NYC directly knowing he > > is the only one who has stock of the displays what the cost of one > is > > and of course he says I would need to bring the whole unit in to > get > > it serviced before he can determine a price? WTF? I asked if I can > > just bring the display board and have him just replace the one > > display instead of lugging the whole board in and he said no, no he > > needs the whole unit. When I mention I was out of state and didn't > > want to make a useless trip if the price was out of my range he > then > > throws out a quote that it could be $350 - $500?? and also > depending > > what else needs serviced?? As I clearly stated to him there was > > nothing else needed to be done besides the one display he says well > > just bring it in and we'll discuss..knowing his shadiness from > having > > dealt with him in the past he would have probabaly swap some parts > > out of it to make it defective and then turnaround and jack me up > for > > other repair costs. That is why I have no intention of bringing the
> > whole unit in and will just avoid him totally. Thought I share > > my .02 experience. > > > > So if anyone has a display for sale please let me know? ;) > > > > --- In xpantastic@yahoogro ups.com, "envia94" <akva@> wrote: > > > > > > The value of an Xpander display is easily over 100 EUR ... > > > > > >
2008-08-05 by envia94
Couldn't the new FPGA-based display board sit right on top, where the current display is. Then, you'd just need to replace the display. I would not mind even removing the glass in order to get more space for the new display.
2008-08-05 by envia94
... and, get all the signals from there where the current display pins. ... On the other hand, it might be wise to pass-by as many old components as possible in order to replace them completely with a new and thus more reliable (I hope) display driver system. The old displays might even be left untouched and feed the new display system from a connector on the back panel, for example. --- In xpantastic@yahoogroups.com, "envia94" <akva@...> wrote:
> > Couldn't the new FPGA-based display board sit right on top, where the current display is. > Then, you'd just need to replace the display. I would not mind even removing the glass in > order to get more space for the new display. >
2008-08-05 by William Cason
I think John was correct about difficulty in spacing if anything were put on top of what's already there, even if an adaptor board/new display replaced the old VFD glass envelope. I'd have to really open my M12 up to speak any more intelligently about it, but electronically it may actually be EASIER to bypass the 4028->6118 VFD driver chips (then no HV involved). It's a bigger replacement, but I think a form-factor-identical replacement board to the original display board would be no harder/easier to create than an adaptor board, and you'd have the most physical leeway because there would be no "squeezing" of space required. The VFDs on ebay seemed to have a built-in electonics, including HV supply. I wonder what would be better, another modern VFD or LEDs. I've got to believe that the LEDs would last longer (another 50 years maybe? :)), but they'd have the "LED look".... --- On Mon, 8/4/08, envia94 <akva@...> wrote: From: envia94 <akva@...> Subject: [xpantastic] Re: Noritake displays on ebay To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 11:11 PM ... and, get all the signals from there where the current display pins. ... On the other hand, it might be wise to pass-by as many old components as possible in order to replace them completely with a new and thus more reliable (I hope) display driver system. The old displays might even be left untouched and feed the new display system from a connector on the back panel, for example. --- In xpantastic@yahoogro ups.com, "envia94" <akva@...> wrote:
> > Couldn't the new FPGA-based display board sit right on top, where the current display is. > Then, you'd just need to replace the display. I would not mind even removing the glass in > order to get more space for the new display. >
2008-08-05 by envia94
Here comes a link to Noritake: http://www.noritake-itron.com/SubPages/ProductsE/vfmodlcdcomp.htm Let me quote again David Hawkins' answer from Noritake: " Hello ..., we have a 1-row x 40 character x 5mm VFD glass and module available but they are totally different from the FG405A2 and FG405B2-9DM as on the latest products the Driver IC is built in to the glass envelope. I have attached the specifications for both the DN4015B VFD glass and the CU406- KTW220A VFD module for your information. To try and build a 40 character display using other Itron products is not really practical, there is a significant amount of glass area between the display areas. It would look very strange unless you can split the message in two? " Here is an other manufacturer, if there is a need for change of color, for example: http://tianma-europe.com/products/customdesignlcds/index.html Cheers, Tiitu.
2008-08-05 by envia94
Contact info: David Hawkins [d.hawkins@...]
2008-08-05 by envia94
Please, see the file CU406-KTW220A-05_and_dn4015b.zip in http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/xpantastic/files/Documents/
2008-08-05 by A
It's funny....like 3 weeks ago I called Noritake's rep in california and asked about feasibility and a quote (if feasible) for 500 "custom" VFD's and by custom I meant the original FG405A2 specifications. I received the following follow-up email: ------------------------------------------- Dear Adam, Unfortunately this is not my territory. I cannot handle. I'll forward to the person in charge of your area(Florida). His name is ****. Please contact him again. I'll let him know about your inquiry. . Thank you. Nao Morooka / Noritake Co., Inc Los Angeles Branch --------------------------------- SO...I guess if anyone hasn't done something similar recently already, I will designate myself the follow-up guy for the group and see if it is possible to have the old ones manufactured as custom VFD's. If anyone else thinks this is worth pursuing... --- In xpantastic@yahoogroups.com, "envia94" <akva@...> wrote:
> > Contact info: David Hawkins [d.hawkins@...] >
2008-08-05 by A
Spoke with the Noritake man. Basically, a min. order would be 1000pcs. There would be an engineering charge which typically would start at $20k and go up with complexity. There may be a break b/c we are dealing with old tech. if we took the cost of the VFD plus the engineering fee, the cost of each display would be well under $100 a piece. The only problem is getting an organized group together to actually buy enough or put enough up front. I think a few of the big repair shops in UK/EU/US would want to stock up on more than a handful. Thoughts? Anyone have any luck finding other devices that used this very display? --- In xpantastic@yahoogroups.com, "A" <thanksmalc@...> wrote:
> > It's funny....like 3 weeks ago I called Noritake's rep in california > and asked about feasibility and a quote (if feasible) for 500 "custom" > VFD's and by custom I meant the original FG405A2 specifications. I > received the following follow-up email: > ------------------------------------------- > Dear Adam, > > Unfortunately this is not my territory. > > I cannot handle. > > I'll forward to the person in charge of your area(Florida). > > His name is ****. > > Please contact him again. > > I'll let him know about your inquiry. > . > Thank you. > > Nao Morooka / Noritake Co., Inc > > Los Angeles Branch > --------------------------------- > SO...I guess if anyone hasn't done something similar recently already, > I will designate myself the follow-up guy for the group and see if it > is possible to have the old ones manufactured as custom VFD's. If > anyone else thinks this is worth pursuing... > > > --- In xpantastic@yahoogroups.com, "envia94" <akva@> wrote: > > > > Contact info: David Hawkins [d.hawkins@] > > >
2008-08-05 by Tony Cappellini
> Thoughts? Anyone have any luck finding other devices that used this > very display? I think someone has to prove that it WILL work before repair shops & owners should commit their money.
2008-08-05 by A
I think that having Noritake re-manufacture the FG405A2 VFD to the original specs would be the safest/best way to replace the displays...no? No reason that shouldn't work. Do you mean that Noritake should manufacture one VFD based on the old model specs to prove that they can make the exact same piece 20 years later before anyone talks about ordering? --- In xpantastic@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Cappellini" <cappy2112@...> wrote:
> > > Thoughts? Anyone have any luck finding other devices that used this > > very display? > > I think someone has to prove that it WILL work before repair shops & > owners should commit their money. >
2008-08-06 by envia94
If they are made to the original specs, they'll work. 1000 pieces may be difficult to sell at once. I would guess that a few hundred could be easily sold to repair offices around the world. AND, I would certainly not want some of them to buy all the new displays, because then the problem would be the same as it is now with that New Your office. I would probably buy some 100 by myself. During the years you could probably sell an other 100 pieces through éBay. So, my guess is that 1000 is too much to be sold for Xpanders and Matrix-12s alone, for ever. But, it is just a guess. Manufacturing them would ofcourse solve the most difficult problem with these Oberheims. Then the same should be done to CEM3374s. I wonder if Dave Smith would be interested of our effort, because I have understood that he is custom manufacturing similar type of components for Prophet´08 already! Could anybody ask him. Also John Bowen is currenly designing the Solaris synthesizer, where similar- looking displays will be used. I'll ask him if he would find any synergy here. Custom-made displays was a very good idea!
2008-08-06 by envia94
There are 108 members in our Xpantastic group. If most of them would take 3 spare displays that would make 300. If this would happen, then selling 500 is not quite impossible. Does anybody have an idea about how many Xpander/M12 users there are around the world? ... 200 ... 300 or more?