Xpantastic! group photo

Yahoo Groups archive

Xpantastic!

Index last updated: 2026-04-28 23:44 UTC

Thread

Matrix 12 not booting up

Matrix 12 not booting up

2011-02-15 by r_j_d_2.phila

Hi all, im hoping someone might have some ideas/leads for me. upon turning on, my M12 is not producing sound, most red LED's are solid on, and the displays are blank. if i hold the "clear" button while turning on, the "RESET" option flashes for just a split second, then disappears.

i have checked the PSU voltages, and everything is within the specs of the service manual EXCEPT:

9vac reads about 6.5vac
55vdc reads about 60.2vdc

any ideas? are those within normal specs you think, or do i need to be concerned with that discrepancy? thanks for the help!!!

Re : [xpantastic] Matrix 12 not booting up

2011-02-15 by E P

Hi,

The 9V AC is used only for the filaments of the tubes and is not regulated.
So, it possible that you have a probleme with one of the display.
Disconnect the cable from the panel board to the display board and see
if the Matirx have a correct response with your action on the button. The LEDs
have to behave a usual.
In the same time, control the voltage of the CPU board (pin 7 of the 6809).
You must have 5V. If not, perhaps the PSU have problem!

Regards

Eric


--- En date de : Mar 15.2.11, r_j_d_2.phila a écrit :
Show quoted textHide quoted text

De: r_j_d_2.phila
Objet: [xpantastic] Matrix 12 not booting up
À: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mardi 15 février 2011, 21h03

Hi all, im hoping someone might have some ideas/leads for me. upon turning on, my M12 is not producing sound, most red LED's are solid on, and the displays are blank. if i hold the "clear" button while turning on, the "RESET" option flashes for just a split second, then disappears.

i have checked the PSU voltages, and everything is within the specs of the service manual EXCEPT:

9vac reads about 6.5vac
55vdc reads about 60.2vdc

any ideas? are those within normal specs you think, or do i need to be concerned with that discrepancy? thanks for the help!!!



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xpantastic/

<*> Your email settings:
; Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xpantastic/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
xpantastic-digest@yahoogroups.com
xpantastic-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
xpantastic-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Re: Re : [xpantastic] Matrix 12 not booting up

2011-02-15 by r_j_d_2.phila

thanks for that, ill try it. ill check the 6809.

does 60.2vdc sound close enough for the 55vdc? all the other voltages read properly.


--- In xpantastic@yahoogroups.com, E P <erfly44@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hi,
> 
> The 9V AC is used only for the filaments of the tubes and is not regulated.
> So, it possible that you have a probleme with one of the display.
> Disconnect the cable from the panel board to the display board and see
> if the Matirx have a correct response with your action on the button. The LEDs
> have to behave a usual.
> In the same time, control the voltage of the CPU board (pin 7 of the 6809).
> You must have 5V. If not, perhaps the PSU have problem!
> 
> Regards
> 
> Eric
> 
> 
> --- En date de : Mar 15.2.11, r_j_d_2.phila <r_j_d_2.phila@...> a écrit :
> 
> De: r_j_d_2.phila <r_j_d_2.phila@...>
> Objet: [xpantastic] Matrix 12 not booting up
> À: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Mardi 15 février 2011, 21h03
> 
> Hi all, im hoping someone might have some ideas/leads for me. upon turning on, my M12 is not producing sound, most red LED's are solid on, and the displays are blank. if i hold the "clear" button while turning on, the "RESET" option flashes for just a split second, then disappears.
> 
> i have checked the PSU voltages, and everything is within the specs of the service manual EXCEPT:
> 
> 9vac reads about 6.5vac
> 55vdc reads about 60.2vdc
> 
> any ideas? are those within normal specs you think, or do i need to be concerned with that discrepancy? thanks for the help!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Re: Re : [xpantastic] Matrix 12 not booting up

2011-02-16 by Karl Schmeer

Hi

EP has good advice about your problem.

Also,
It sounds to me like your M12 stuck
in start-up. This points to the main processor board. 

I would start by carefully disconnecting and reconnecting the cables 
that run to the main processor board. 

Do this until you run out of connectors to check, Do this with both 
ends of each cable. 

If still not working,
All chips are in a socket. This is a good and bad thing.
On the good side repairs are easy and there is little chance to damage the 
circuit board.

On the bad side :
The chips can work themselves loose over time, and dirt, corrosion, etc
can build up on the connection between the IC and the socket. 
But re-seating them often fixes many problems

So

Try pushing down all the IC's on the main processor board.
Some may have worked themselves loose.

Next:
What you might try is to gently remove and re-seat the 
microprocessor on the main board, and the associated logic and
memory chips.

Best Luck

Karl Schmeer




________________________________
From: E P <erfly44@...>
To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, February 15, 2011 4:42:24 PM
Subject: Re : [xpantastic] Matrix 12 not booting up

  
Hi,

The 9V AC is used only for the filaments of the tubes and is not regulated.
So, it possible that you have a probleme with one of the display.
Disconnect the cable from the panel board to the display board and see
if the Matirx have a correct response with your action on the button. The LEDs
have to behave a usual.
In the same time, control the voltage of the CPU board (pin 7 of the 6809).
You must have 5V. If not, perhaps the PSU have problem!

Regards

Eric


--- En date de : Mar 15.2.11, r_j_d_2.phila <r_j_d_2.phila@...> a écrit :
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>De: r_j_d_2.phila <r_j_d_2.phila@...>
>Objet: [xpantastic] Matrix 12 not booting up
>À: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com
>Date: Mardi 15 février 2011, 21h03
>
>
>Hi all, im hoping someone might have some ideas/leads for me. upon turning on, 
>my M12 is not producing sound, most red LED's are solid on, and the displays are 
>
>blank. if i hold the "clear" button while turning on, the "RESET" option flashes 
>
>for just a split second, then disappears.
>
>i have checked the PSU voltages, and everything is within the specs of the 
>service manual EXCEPT:
>
>9vac reads about 6.5vac
>55vdc reads about 60.2vdc
>
>any ideas? are those within normal specs you think, or do i need to be concerned 
>
>with that discrepancy? thanks for the help!!!
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Re: Re : [xpantastic] Matrix 12 not booting up

2011-02-16 by envia94

I have not measured the voltage in my unit, but if it should be 60.2V, then 55V is absolutely too low to be correct at least. If the specs would say 60V instead of 60.2V, then 55V might be about alright, in my opinion.

--- In xpantastic@yahoogroups.com, "r_j_d_2.phila" <r_j_d_2.phila@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> thanks for that, ill try it. ill check the 6809.
> 
> does 60.2vdc sound close enough for the 55vdc? all the other voltages read properly.

Re: Re : [xpantastic] Matrix 12 not booting up

2011-02-16 by r_j_d_2.phila

the voltage SHOULD be +55vdc(+/-4v, according to SM); it reads 60.2.

also, last night, i removed and reseated the 4053 and two tl081's on the voice board(related to SM calibration, so i thought i'd try it), and just ONCE i got it to boot w/ "clear" held down. when it went into the reset process, i got this error:

"voice processor malfunction".

any time turning on after that, i was back at square one. ill try to find the memory/processor ic's on the main processor board, and reseat them. thanks guys!


--- In xpantastic@yahoogroups.com, "envia94" <akva@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I have not measured the voltage in my unit, but if it should be 60.2V, then 55V is absolutely too low to be correct at least. If the specs would say 60V instead of 60.2V, then 55V might be about alright, in my opinion.
> 
> --- In xpantastic@yahoogroups.com, "r_j_d_2.phila" <r_j_d_2.phila@> wrote:
> >
> > thanks for that, ill try it. ill check the 6809.
> > 
> > does 60.2vdc sound close enough for the 55vdc? all the other voltages read properly.
>

Re: Re : [xpantastic] Matrix 12 not booting up

2011-02-16 by PeWe


There are 2 processors in the Xpandr/Matrix-12.

If one of these fails and you need a replacement,- your only chance is to buy a Matrix-1000 used.
Is the same processor.


Am 16.02.2011 18:37, schrieb r_j_d_2.phila:
Show quoted textHide quoted text

the voltage SHOULD be +55vdc(+/-4v, according to SM); it reads 60.2.

also, last night, i removed and reseated the 4053 and two tl081's on the voice board(related to SM calibration, so i thought i'd try it), and just ONCE i got it to boot w/ "clear" held down. when it went into the reset process, i got this error:

"voice processor malfunction".

any time turning on after that, i was back at square one. ill try to find the memory/processor ic's on the main processor board, and reseat them. thanks guys!


Re: Re : [xpantastic] Matrix 12 not booting up

2011-02-16 by Tony Cappellini

>>There are 2 processors in the Xpandr/Matrix-12.

There are 3 in the Matrix 12, because it has 2 voice boards + the main board.

>>If one of these fails and you need a replacement,- your only chance is to buy a Matrix-1000 used.

I don't remember if the 6809 in the Xpander/Matrix is the 6809 or 6809E (External clock).
These are commercially available and dirt cheap
http://tinyurl.com/4qr3ajv

Hitachi makes a pin &; instruction compatible replacement for the 6809, which runs up to 4Mhz(I believe).

Imagine what new features the Xpander could have if it would use a faster processor. Sure, a lot of code would need to be re-written,
but there are people who like to do that.


Re: Re : [xpantastic] Matrix 12 not booting up

2011-02-16 by PeWe

Well, that´s news !!!

thx for info


Am 16.02.2011 19:33, schrieb Tony Cappellini:
Show quoted textHide quoted text

>>There are 2 processors in the Xpandr/Matrix-12.

There are 3 in the Matrix 12, because it has 2 voice boards + the main board.

>>If one of these fails and you need a replacement,- your only chance is to buy a Matrix-1000 used.

I don't remember if the 6809 in the Xpander/Matrix is the 6809 or 6809E (External clock).
These are commercially available and dirt cheap
http://tinyurl.com/4qr3ajv

Hitachi makes a pin & instruction compatible replacement for the 6809, which runs up to 4Mhz(I believe).

Imagine what new features the Xpander could have if it would use a faster processor. Sure, a lot of code would need to be re-written,
but there are people who like to do that.



Re: Re : [xpantastic] Matrix 12 not booting up

2011-02-16 by r_j_d_2.phila

Thanks so much Tony! so the M12 processors number is HD68B09P.

assume thats a 6809, NOT 6809E?

that jameco link, its a drop-in replacement for all 3 processors? 
LAST question: are there any other IC's that you would suggest ordering now, that might be high probability of failing? THANKS!!!! (didnt realize how often i was playing the M12 til it went down...)

--- In xpantastic@yahoogroups.com, Tony Cappellini <cappy2112@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> >
> > >>There are 2 processors in the Xpandr/Matrix-12.
> >
> There are 3 in the Matrix 12, because it has 2 voice boards + the main
> board.
> 
> 
> > >>If one of these fails and you need a replacement,- your only chance is to
> > buy a Matrix-1000 used.
> >
> I don't remember if the 6809 in the Xpander/Matrix is the 6809 or 6809E
> (External clock).
> These are commercially available and dirt cheap
> *http://tinyurl.com/4qr3ajv
> 
> Hitachi makes a pin & instruction compatible replacement for the 6809, which
> runs up to 4Mhz(I believe).
> 
> Imagine what new features the Xpander could have if it would use a faster
> processor. Sure, a lot of code would need to be re-written,
> but there are people who like to do that.
> 
> *
>

Re: Re : [xpantastic] Matrix 12 not booting up

2011-02-16 by Tony Cappellini

>>Thanks so much Tony! so the M12 processors number is HD68B09P.

I don't remember what the B indicates, but the trailing P indicates Plastic packaging ( I think)


>>that jameco link, its a drop-in replacement for all 3 processors?

I'm not 100% sure about that. Better refer to a hardware person who is more up to date.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'd hate for someone to put the wrong part in and have problems

Digikey also sells electronic parts- like CPUs. Check their prices & specs.

>>LAST question: are there any other IC's that you would suggest ordering now, that might be high probability of failing? THANKS!!!! (didnt realize how often i was playing the M12 til it went >>down...)

The voice chips, the dac. All that are nearly impossible to find and are expensive.



[xpantastic] Matrix 12 not booting-PROGRESS!!! "Processor 1 malfunction"

2011-02-17 by r_j_d_2.phila

hello all, thanks so much for your help. so i disconnected the rear harness of the TOP voice board that connects to the main processor board, and the machine boots. it reads:

"voice 1 processor malfunction"

and then enters the main screen. all buttons/pots work, and i am able to select programs. however, i get no sound.

if i enter the tuning page, i get this error"

"voice 0 processor malfunction"

so i've narrowed it down to a problem in the top-most voice board, i believe. now what do i do? any ideas on how to deduce the problem on that board? thanks, rj

Re: Re : [xpantastic] Matrix 12 not booting up

2011-02-17 by synthparts

--- In xpantastic@yahoogroups.com, Tony Cappellini <cappy2112@...> wrote:
> The voice chips, the dac. All that are nearly impossible to find 
> and are expensive.

I have both in stock at the moment the way. :) Doug, synthparts.com

Re: Re : [xpantastic] Matrix 12 not booting up

2011-02-17 by John Pallister

On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 6:33 PM, Tony Cappellini <cappy2112@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text

>>There are 2 processors in the Xpandr/Matrix-12.

There are 3 in the Matrix 12, because it has 2 voice boards + the main board.

>>If one of these fails and you need a replacement,- your only chance is to buy a Matrix-1000 used.

I don't remember if the 6809 in the Xpander/Matrix is the 6809 or 6809E (External clock).
These are commercially available and dirt cheap
http://tinyurl.com/4qr3ajv


The Jameco part is an MC68B09EP; the "B" refers to its clock speed (2MHz, where the "A" was 1.5MHz) and the "P" means it's in a plastic package (as Tony mentioned). The original CPU is an MC68B09P. Question is, does the "E" make a difference?

Comparing the pinouts of the two chips from their datasheets, the following pins are labelled differently:

Pin 'EP 'P
33 BUSY DMA/BREQ (where the underline means an inverted signal)
34 E E An input on the 'EP, an output on the 'P.
35 Q Q An input on the 'EP, an output on the 'P.
36 AVMA MRDY
38 LIC EXTAL
39 TSC XTAL

Pin I/O 'EP description
33 BUSY O memory access in progress - used for multiprocessing
34 E I Clock input, TTL level (Q leads E)
35 Q I Clock input, NMOS level
36 AVMA O used for resource sharing in multiprocessor systems
38 LIC O Last Instruction Cycle "indicates opcode fetch"
39 TSC I Three-State Control "controls internal bus buffers"

Pin I/O 'P description
33 DMA/BREQ I "allows DMA operation or memory refresh"
34 E O Clock output (Q leads E)
35 Q O Clock output
36 MRDY I "input extends data access times"
38 EXTAL I External crystal or clock input
39 XTAL I External crystal (or ground)

So as you can see, the "E"; version is a more advanced generation of the original 6809, with pins that were inputs now re-purposed as outputs to allow multiple CPUs to work together, and the clock signals E and Q are now external inputs rather than being generated by the CPU. This means that the 6809E is not going to be backwards-compatible with the 6809 found the Matrix-12 (and the Xpander).

So you'll need to keep looking for the original CPU. Try the Octopart link above, or UTSource (who I've used successfully in the past): http://utsource.net/HD68B09P.html

OK, looking at the Xpander schematic (since I have an Xpander and not a Matrix-12, although I imagine the latter is very similar) the MRDY and /BREQ inputs are tied high and XTAL is grounded anyway, with the CPU driven from an external clock circuit. So to retrofit a 68B09E, you'd need to cut the traces to pins 33, 36 and 38, then add another clock generator circuit (there's a schematic for one in the 6809E datasheet) and connect it to pins 34 and 35. Then you could power it up and find out whether the firmware still works on the new CPU; it might be best to compare the internal CPU architectures (flag registers etc.) against the code and look for "unused" flag bits, NOP opcodes etc. that now do stuff...

Hitachi makes a pin & instruction compatible replacement for the 6809, which runs up to 4Mhz(I believe).

Imagine what new features the Xpander could have if it would use a faster processor. Sure, a lot of code would need to be re-written, but there are people who like to do that.

To quote Wikipedia: "6809 cores are available in VHDL and can be programmed into FPGA and used as an embedded processor with speed ratings up to 40 MHz." So that would be one way to do it, the advantage being that you could have a "legacy mode" that runs the original Xpander firmware on a model of the original CPU. Alternatively, you'd port the firmware to a new CPU and add whatever extra features you wanted. If I ever succeed in cloning myself I'll definitely get one of my replicas to have a go at this.

Disclaimer: I'm not an electrical engineer but I do have a Masters degree in Electrical Engineering, FWIW.

Cheers,

John :^P

M12 and Xpander ipad editing app

2011-03-05 by Karl Schmeer

Hi All,
This is sure tempting to me.

Look to the left to find the different synths. 

http://www.icontrolmididesign.com/


Best 

Karl Schmeer

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.