Yamaha CS80

Lacking a Strobe tuner, and with my MAM tuner not being as good as I hoped 
for high frequencies, I might now try to tune it with ... my Multimeter.

I just checked and noticed the spec for Frequency measurments are 0.005% 
plus one digit - that's less than 0.4 Hz in the 5kHz range.

I guess i'll connect this in parallel with the MAM tuner.

JH.

JH. wrote:
> Lacking a Strobe tuner, and with my MAM tuner not being as good as I hoped 
> for high frequencies, I might now try to tune it with ... my Multimeter.
>
> I just checked and noticed the spec for Frequency measurments are 0.005% 
> plus one digit - that's less than 0.4 Hz in the 5kHz range.
>
> I guess i'll connect this in parallel with the MAM tuner.
>   
Using a frequency counter to tune a musical instrument is almost always 
a really bad idea.  All you need is a good, stable tuning reference, 
preferably a sine wave A-400.  If you have decent ears, you can do all 
the CS80 tuning steps with this, just listening to beat frequencies. 
Different octaves would make it a bit easier.  Say - finally a good use 
for a DX-7 :^)

 David

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, David Rogoff <david@...> wrote:
> Using a frequency counter to tune a musical instrument is almost 
always 
> a really bad idea. 

Well, it was quite helpful, last night.
Only in combination with the MAM tuner, and for the high end of the 
frequency range, though.

It's helpful that the required frequencies are printend in the Yamaha 
tuning instructions - I guess it'd be a nightmare to tune an 
instrument looking into a frequency table.

But here, it worked like a charm. In a range of several kHz, I could 
really fine tune to about 2Hz - that's the utmost of resolution I 
could get out of the multiturn trimpots. With the MAM tuner (*when* 
it catched the right note), it was more like 8Hz of resolution.

On the low end (adjusting the offset voltage), in the range of a few 
hundred Hz, the frequency counter was of no use, however. The 
displayed frequency was wandering too much. But here the MAM tuner 
was perfect: It's resolution better than the offset trimpot's (single 
turn!) resolution.

So, in one evening, I had my CS-80 tuned well enough for playing 
chords that don't sound harsh anymore.

But this is still with the *open* synth, cards in "up" position.
I did put a towel on top of the card cage (thanks again for the 
hint!); now I'm curious how well the tuning will hold when the synth 
is closed again.
(I noticed a drift of almost 10Hz at the highest C in 2', from 1 hour 
after turn-on to 1.5 hours after turn-on, with the open, towel-clad 
synth.)

From what I've experienced so far, the main limit for precise tuning 
(other than heat, of course), is the resolution of the trimpots. 
Especially considering the awkward position in which I have to adjust 
them. :)

JH.

i agreed with david about this UNTIL i got the katsura tuner:

 > Using a frequency counter to tune a musical instrument is almost 
 always 
 > a really bad idea. 

only because it is SO accurate, that you can RELIABLY get 2 oscs so close visually that the beats are negligible.

i still run it off a console send, so i can listen AND watch. but damn, it is seriously rock solid.



dark_november2000 <jhaible@...> wrote:                               --- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, David Rogoff <david@...> wrote:
 > Using a frequency counter to tune a musical instrument is almost 
 always 
 > a really bad idea. 
 
 Well, it was quite helpful, last night.
 Only in combination with the MAM tuner, and for the high end of the 
 frequency range, though.
 
 It's helpful that the required frequencies are printend in the Yamaha 
 tuning instructions - I guess it'd be a nightmare to tune an 
 instrument looking into a frequency table.
 
 But here, it worked like a charm. In a range of several kHz, I could 
 really fine tune to about 2Hz - that's the utmost of resolution I 
 could get out of the multiturn trimpots. With the MAM tuner (*when* 
 it catched the right note), it was more like 8Hz of resolution.
 
 On the low end (adjusting the offset voltage), in the range of a few 
 hundred Hz, the frequency counter was of no use, however. The 
 displayed frequency was wandering too much. But here the MAM tuner 
 was perfect: It's resolution better than the offset trimpot's (single 
 turn!) resolution.
 
 So, in one evening, I had my CS-80 tuned well enough for playing 
 chords that don't sound harsh anymore.
 
 But this is still with the *open* synth, cards in "up" position.
 I did put a towel on top of the card cage (thanks again for the 
 hint!); now I'm curious how well the tuning will hold when the synth 
 is closed again.
 (I noticed a drift of almost 10Hz at the highest C in 2', from 1 hour 
 after turn-on to 1.5 hours after turn-on, with the open, towel-clad 
 synth.)
 
 From what I've experienced so far, the main limit for precise tuning 
 (other than heat, of course), is the resolution of the trimpots. 
 Especially considering the awkward position in which I have to adjust 
 them. :)
 
 JH.
 
 
     
                               

       
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I think the resolution of the one-turn trimmers is fine enough to 
adjust the oscillators for zero beating by ear (or let's say, 1 beat 
every 10 seconds, that's 0,1Hz isnt't it ?).

Very important is having oscillator-ic's all with the same temperature-
code. One of my CS80's has all equal numbers and is immidiatly in tune, 
there's no difference in 1 minute warm-up or 2 hours warming up.
My other CS80 has 2 ic's with different numbers, and there I've to wait 
for about 10 minutes (that used to be 1 hour before I renewed the 
thermical grease around the diode)...

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "dark_november2000" <jhaible@...> 
wrote:

> From what I've experienced so far, the main limit for precise tuning 
> (other than heat, of course), is the resolution of the trimpots. 
> Especially considering the awkward position in which I have to adjust 
> them. :)
> 
> JH.
>

erik, what would the temp code look like on a VCO chip? is this a way to determine an early vs. later chip?



erikfromhere <moogsynthex@...> wrote:                               I think the resolution of the one-turn trimmers is fine enough to 
 adjust the oscillators for zero beating by ear (or let's say, 1 beat 
 every 10 seconds, that's 0,1Hz isnt't it ?).
 
 Very important is having oscillator-ic's all with the same temperature-
 code. One of my CS80's has all equal numbers and is immidiatly in tune, 
 there's no difference in 1 minute warm-up or 2 hours warming up.
 My other CS80 has 2 ic's with different numbers, and there I've to wait 
 for about 10 minutes (that used to be 1 hour before I renewed the 
 thermical grease around the diode)...
 
 --- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "dark_november2000" <jhaible@...> 
 wrote:
 > From what I've experienced so far, the main limit for precise tuning 
 > (other than heat, of course), is the resolution of the trimpots. 
 > Especially considering the awkward position in which I have to adjust 
 > them. :)
 > 
 > JH.
 >
 
 
     
                               

       
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>I think the resolution of the one-turn trimmers is fine enough to
>adjust the oscillators for zero beating by ear (or let's say, 1 beat
>every 10 seconds, that's 0,1Hz isnt't it ?).

Well, my 2 Hz resolution at the higest C in 2' would equal something like 
you described in the middle region of 16' ...
Or did you really get 10 seconds of beat rate at 8372 Hz ??

>Very important is having oscillator-ic's all with the same temperature-
>code. One of my CS80's has all equal numbers and is immidiatly in tune,
>there's no difference in 1 minute warm-up or 2 hours warming up.
>My other CS80 has 2 ic's with different numbers, and there I've to wait
>for about 10 minutes (that used to be 1 hour before I renewed the
>thermical grease around the diode)...

I think 10 minutes is still a very good time.
My OB-8 takes as long if I don't auto-tune it (I avoid auto-tune).
Same for my CS-50.
My PS-3200 clone takes longer.

Ahh, and my new CS-80 isn't bad, either: I just tried the tuning from last 
night with the lid closed, and it seems to be ok after power-on, and after 
an hour of having it turned on. (Not _perfect_, but good enough for making 
music.)
Seems I've been lucky about the temp code matching. (Haven't checked the 
numbers yet - all boards are still inside the frame.)

JH.