Yamaha CS80

If I go to the panel mode (both channels) and turn all VCOS, noise and sine off, both VCF up -then I put overall brilliance and keyboard control brilliance up and press like 6 or more keys at the same time, I hear high sine sound and actually a little VCO in the background and some noise clipping while pressing those keys. I�ve noticed this playing presets like brass with all the brilliance up. Do you guys have the same effect or there is something wrong with my CS80?

For what it's worth, the Keyboard Control Brilliance and Level both occasionally cause wonky things to happen on mine--especially on patches with long sustain enabled and while triggering multiple voices.  I can't put it into words just now, but it seems to interfere with/defeat the filter and/or VCA envelopes of the triggered voices--i.e. the envelopes will suddenly be wide open on all sounding voices.

I remember reading that this was a relatively common issue--but perhaps someone with a 100% healthy CS80 (if such a thing exists!) can chime in as to whether they're all a bit buggy with the keyboard VCF/VCA tracking engaged.


On 2013-05-23, at 1:14 PM, pyjamagroove wrote:

> If I go to the panel mode (both channels) and turn all VCOS, noise and sine off, both VCF up -then I put overall brilliance and keyboard control brilliance up and press like 6 or more keys at the same time, I hear high sine sound and actually a little VCO in the background and some noise clipping while pressing those keys. I�ve noticed this playing presets like brass with all the brilliance up. Do you guys have the same effect or there is something wrong with my CS80? 
> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

CS filters cannot self-oscillate; they are wired with external 
feedback limiting on the resonance control VCAs inside the IG00156s.  
You might be hearing chorus unit clock noise.  Or a noisy FET somewhere 
leaking a VCO signal. My CS80s are noisy in this regard, probably due to 
age more than anything.  --Crow

On 5/23/2013 3:14 PM, pyjamagroove wrote:
> If I go to the panel mode (both channels) and turn all VCOS, noise and sine off, both VCF up -then I put overall brilliance and keyboard control brilliance up and press like 6 or more keys at the same time, I hear high sine sound and actually a little VCO in the background and some noise clipping while pressing those keys. I\ufffdve noticed this playing presets like brass with all the brilliance up. Do you guys have the same effect or there is something wrong with my CS80?

that is how the CS80 works....there are both sustain modes.... I and II.... pitch and filter are disabled in Sus 1 on releasing notes...  in Sus ii , filter and amplitude changes in the Kyb Control 
zones will add or subtract releasing portions in other zones.... if you have a note in the middle in release... and go to a negative amplitude in a different key zone, the note in the middle will also drop in level...
-----Original Message----- 

> From: "T.M. Bois" <bucklehorse@...> 
> To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com 
> Date: 05/23/13 15:29 
> Subject: [POSSIBLE SPAM] Re: [yamahacs80] Is CS80 actually self-oscillating or I have another problem? 
> 
> For what it's worth, the Keyboard Control Brilliance and Level both occasionally cause wonky things to happen on mine--especially on patches with long sustain enabled and while triggering multiple voices.  I can't put it into words just now, but it seems to interfere with/defeat the filter and/or VCA envelopes of the triggered voices--i.e. the envelopes will suddenly be wide open on all sounding voices.
> 
> I remember reading that this was a relatively common issue--but perhaps someone with a 100% healthy CS80 (if such a thing exists!) can chime in as to whether they're all a bit buggy with the keyboard VCF/VCA tracking engaged.
> 
> 
> On 2013-05-23, at 1:14 PM, pyjamagroove wrote:
> 
> > If I go to the panel mode (both channels) and turn all VCOS, noise and sine off, both VCF up -then I put overall brilliance and keyboard control brilliance up and press like 6 or more keys at the same time, I hear high sine sound and actually a little VCO in the background and some noise clipping while pressing those keys. I ve noticed this playing presets like brass with all the brilliance up. Do you guys have the same effect or there is something wrong with my CS80? 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>

Just to demonstrate an example of this "common issue" you are experiencing with the kyb control playing in and out of ranges with sustain I engaged....
http://slammah.xanga.com/audio/7bdae2131276/

-----Original Message-----
From: "Laurie Curry" <laurie@...>
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Date: 05/23/13 21:18
Subject: Re: [POSSIBLE SPAM] Re: [yamahacs80] Is CS80 actually self-oscillating or I have another problem?

       
that is how the CS80 works....there are both sustain modes.... I and II.... pitch and filter are disabled in Sus 1 on releasing notes... in Sus ii , filter and amplitude changes in the Kyb Control 
zones will add or subtract releasing portions in other zones.... if you have a note in the middle in release... and go to a negative amplitude in a different key zone, the note in the middle will also drop in level...
-----Original Message-----
> From: "T.M. Bois" <bucklehorse@...>
> To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
> Date: 05/23/13 15:29
> Subject: [POSSIBLE SPAM] Re: [yamahacs80] Is CS80 actually self-oscillating or I have another problem?
>
> For what it's worth, the Keyboard Control Brilliance and Level both occasionally cause wonky things to happen on mine--especially on patches with long sustain enabled and while triggering multiple voices. I can't put it into words just now, but it seems to interfere with/defeat the filter and/or VCA envelopes of the triggered voices--i.e. the envelopes will suddenly be wide open on all sounding voices.
>
> I remember reading that this was a relatively common issue--but perhaps someone with a 100% healthy CS80 (if such a thing exists!) can chime in as to whether they're all a bit buggy with the keyboard VCF/VCA tracking engaged.
>
>
> On 2013-05-23, at 1:14 PM, pyjamagroove wrote:
>
> > If I go to the panel mode (both channels) and turn all VCOS, noise and sine off, both VCF up -then I put overall brilliance and keyboard control brilliance up and press like 6 or more keys at the same time, I hear high sine sound and actually a little VCO in the background and some noise clipping while pressing those keys. I ve noticed this playing presets like brass with all the brilliance up. Do you guys have the same effect or there is something wrong with my CS80?
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks, Laurie--that makes sense, and describes my synth's behaviour perfectly.  One less thing to worry about!  ;)

And sorry pyjamagroove--sounds like the issue you're experiencing is altogether different.


On 2013-05-23, at 8:27 PM, Laurie Curry wrote:

> 
> Just to demonstrate an example of this "common issue" you are experiencing with the kyb control playing in and out of ranges with sustain I engaged....
> http://slammah.xanga.com/audio/7bdae2131276/
> 
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Laurie Curry" <laurie@...>
> To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
> Date: 05/23/13 21:18
> Subject: Re: [POSSIBLE SPAM] Re: [yamahacs80] Is CS80 actually self-oscillating or I have another problem?
> 
>      
> that is how the CS80 works....there are both sustain modes.... I and II.... pitch and filter are disabled in Sus 1 on releasing notes... in Sus ii , filter and amplitude changes in the Kyb Control 
> zones will add or subtract releasing portions in other zones.... if you have a note in the middle in release... and go to a negative amplitude in a different key zone, the note in the middle will also drop in level...
> -----Original Message-----
> > From: "T.M. Bois" <bucklehorse@...>
> > To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: 05/23/13 15:29
> > Subject: [POSSIBLE SPAM] Re: [yamahacs80] Is CS80 actually self-oscillating or I have another problem?
> >
> > For what it's worth, the Keyboard Control Brilliance and Level both occasionally cause wonky things to happen on mine--especially on patches with long sustain enabled and while triggering multiple voices. I can't put it into words just now, but it seems to interfere with/defeat the filter and/or VCA envelopes of the triggered voices--i.e. the envelopes will suddenly be wide open on all sounding voices.
> >
> > I remember reading that this was a relatively common issue--but perhaps someone with a 100% healthy CS80 (if such a thing exists!) can chime in as to whether they're all a bit buggy with the keyboard VCF/VCA tracking engaged.
> >
> >
> > On 2013-05-23, at 1:14 PM, pyjamagroove wrote:
> >
> > > If I go to the panel mode (both channels) and turn all VCOS, noise and sine off, both VCF up -then I put overall brilliance and keyboard control brilliance up and press like 6 or more keys at the same time, I hear high sine sound and actually a little VCO in the background and some noise clipping while pressing those keys. I ve noticed this playing presets like brass with all the brilliance up. Do you guys have the same effect or there is something wrong with my CS80?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You have logic whine comming from KBC1 and KBC2.  Replace the cmos on these 
two boards.  they are the 4001, 4069, 4013, 4019, 4073 and 4016. This will 
cure it.

Best regards

Kent

-----Original Message----- 
From: pyjamagroove
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 9:14 PM
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [yamahacs80] Is CS80 actually self-oscillating or I have another 
problem?

If I go to the panel mode (both channels) and turn all VCOS, noise and sine 
off, both VCF up -then I put overall brilliance and keyboard control 
brilliance up and press like 6 or more keys at the same time, I hear high 
sine sound and actually a little VCO in the background and some noise 
clipping while pressing those keys. I�ve noticed this playing presets like 
brass with all the brilliance up. Do you guys have the same effect or there 
is something wrong with my CS80?




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Well, I´m pretty sure it´s not a voice card as it comes from all the voices. It must be a general problem. It leaks noise, some VCO signal and that high annoying tone that comes when the general brilliance is closed. It´s quite annoying cause it gets through the low base sounds hissing in the background....Could it be the PRA board?

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, The Old Crow <oldcrow@...> wrote:

>
>    CS filters cannot self-oscillate; they are wired with external 
> feedback limiting on the resonance control VCAs inside the IG00156s.  
> You might be hearing chorus unit clock noise.  Or a noisy FET somewhere 
> leaking a VCO signal. My CS80s are noisy in this regard, probably due to 
> age more than anything.  --Crow
> 
> On 5/23/2013 3:14 PM, pyjamagroove wrote:
> > If I go to the panel mode (both channels) and turn all VCOS, noise and sine off, both VCF up -then I put overall brilliance and keyboard control brilliance up and press like 6 or more keys at the same time, I hear high sine sound and actually a little VCO in the background and some noise clipping while pressing those keys. I´ve noticed this playing presets like brass with all the brilliance up. Do you guys have the same effect or there is something wrong with my CS80?
>

I'd take note of what Kent said - "Logic whine" - or did you miss his post?

Cheers,
TOM



--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "pyjamagroove" <pyjamagroove@...> wrote:

>
> Well, I´m pretty sure it´s not a voice card as it comes from all the voices. It must be a general problem. It leaks noise, some VCO signal and that high annoying tone that comes when the general brilliance is closed. It´s quite annoying cause it gets through the low base sounds hissing in the background....Could it be the PRA board?
> 
> --- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, The Old Crow <oldcrow@> wrote:
> >
> >    CS filters cannot self-oscillate; they are wired with external 
> > feedback limiting on the resonance control VCAs inside the IG00156s.  
> > You might be hearing chorus unit clock noise.  Or a noisy FET somewhere 
> > leaking a VCO signal. My CS80s are noisy in this regard, probably due to 
> > age more than anything.  --Crow
> > 
> > On 5/23/2013 3:14 PM, pyjamagroove wrote:
> > > If I go to the panel mode (both channels) and turn all VCOS, noise and sine off, both VCF up -then I put overall brilliance and keyboard control brilliance up and press like 6 or more keys at the same time, I hear high sine sound and actually a little VCO in the background and some noise clipping while pressing those keys. I´ve noticed this playing presets like brass with all the brilliance up. Do you guys have the same effect or there is something wrong with my CS80?
> >
>

I change ALL the electrolytic capacitors of the pra board, and now my CS80 has
eliminated all the background noise.


2013/5/26 pyjamagroove <pyjamagroove@...>

> Well, I´m pretty sure it´s not a voice card as it comes from all the
> voices. It must be a general problem. It leaks noise, some VCO signal and
> that high annoying tone that comes when the general brilliance is closed.
> It´s quite annoying cause it gets through the low base sounds hissing in
> the background....Could it be the PRA board?
>
> --- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, The Old Crow <oldcrow@...> wrote:
> >
> >    CS filters cannot self-oscillate; they are wired with external
> > feedback limiting on the resonance control VCAs inside the IG00156s.
> > You might be hearing chorus unit clock noise.  Or a noisy FET somewhere
> > leaking a VCO signal. My CS80s are noisy in this regard, probably due to
> > age more than anything.  --Crow
> >
> > On 5/23/2013 3:14 PM, pyjamagroove wrote:
> > > If I go to the panel mode (both channels) and turn all VCOS, noise and
> sine off, both VCF up -then I put overall brilliance and keyboard control
> brilliance up and press like 6 or more keys at the same time, I hear high
> sine sound and actually a little VCO in the background and some noise
> clipping while pressing those keys. I´ve noticed this playing presets like
> brass with all the brilliance up. Do you guys have the same effect or there
> is something wrong with my CS80?
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks a lot Kent.

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, Kent spong <kent_spong@...> wrote:

>
> You have logic whine comming from KBC1 and KBC2.  Replace the cmos on these 
> two boards.  they are the 4001, 4069, 4013, 4019, 4073 and 4016. This will 
> cure it.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Kent
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: pyjamagroove
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 9:14 PM
> To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [yamahacs80] Is CS80 actually self-oscillating or I have another 
> problem?
> 
> If I go to the panel mode (both channels) and turn all VCOS, noise and sine 
> off, both VCF up -then I put overall brilliance and keyboard control 
> brilliance up and press like 6 or more keys at the same time, I hear high 
> sine sound and actually a little VCO in the background and some noise 
> clipping while pressing those keys. I´ve noticed this playing presets like 
> brass with all the brilliance up. Do you guys have the same effect or there 
> is something wrong with my CS80?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, Kent spong <kent_spong@...> wrote:
>
> You have logic whine comming from KBC1 and KBC2.  Replace the cmos on these 
> two boards.  they are the 4001, 4069, 4013, 4019, 4073 and 4016. This will 
> cure it.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Kent
> 

Back to work after a brake.....
Can you tell me if those can be any model or manufacturer of the CMOS 4000 series? I see there are 15V and 18V models for example. Thanks.

It shouldn't really matter as long as they are DIP packaging. That said,
personally I'd go with 18V volt versions if there's an option, and would
avoid Fairchild in favour of Texas Instruments, and On Semiconductors.

On Thursday, May 23, 2013, pyjamagroove wrote:

> **
>
>
> If I go to the panel mode (both channels) and turn all VCOS, noise and
> sine off, both VCF up -then I put overall brilliance and keyboard control
> brilliance up and press like 6 or more keys at the same time, I hear high
> sine sound and actually a little VCO in the background and some noise
> clipping while pressing those keys. I�ve noticed this playing presets like
> brass with all the brilliance up. Do you guys have the same effect or there
> is something wrong with my CS80?
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

MC1 series is cool. So for a 4016 get a MC14016 ect. You may need to hunt around for the 4006 and the 4019's though.

Sent from my iPad

On 29 Jun 2013, at 01:56, "pyjamagroove" <pyjamagroove@...> wrote:

> 
> 
> --- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, Kent spong <kent_spong@...> wrote:
>> 
>> You have logic whine comming from KBC1 and KBC2.  Replace the cmos on these 
>> two boards.  they are the 4001, 4069, 4013, 4019, 4073 and 4016. This will 
>> cure it.
>> 
>> Best regards
>> 
>> Kent
> 
> Back to work after a brake.....
> Can you tell me if those can be any model or manufacturer of the CMOS 4000 series? I see there are 15V and 18V models for example. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>