yes the mono tribe is pure analog electronics
but descrete analog electronics is the way to go and easy to repair and get parts for but the use 4-5 times the amount of components but they are matches better
and provide superior sound
----- Original Message -----
From: Jason Adkins
To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [CZsynth] casio fz10m
Wow Jammie,that was a thorough reply I'm not even going to try and
reply or argue with that.
My favourite synth at the moment is a Korg Monotribe which I believe
is a real analogue monosynth according to the manual it certainly
sounds like one in fact I love the thing and only cost me £139 new I
have owned Pro-1's sh101/mc202 transendent 2000 tb303 and moog's +
others and this is equally nice.
J
On 21 Oct 2012, at 16:09, jammie wrote:
> it was becuase every thing went digital
>
> the dsm1 was used for the pcm content for the m1 and t series and 01w
>
> they were pure digital machines with no res filter
>
> the dz7 was to blame for most synths discarding analog filters
>
> ensoniq was another company they were all analog hybrid filters with
> digital osc
>
> but when cem started to stop manufacture due to the digital synths
> and updated poly by digital means to have a 24 32 64 voice poly
> synth with analog filters would mean 64 analog filters 64 analog vca
>
> this would have made the synths to big and the cost was to great
>
> so all manufacturers made asic chips that could simulate filters
>
> doing negative feed back in digital properly is very hard for one
> thing you need lots of processor power they just never had thing
> fast enough
>
> and you get samples in time delay for feed back
>
> unlike analog which is zero time as its fed straight to the input
>
> with digital it all has to be computed the fed back to the begining
> which adds latency
>
> roland did it but it was good but analog it was not
>
> casio created the first and only hybrid filter being digital control
> by cpu and analog audio path
>
> all other systems they had to use dacs for the cv under cpu control
> the sample and hold multiplexers which were digitally controlled and
> they would sample the cv volTAGE AT ITS IMPUT OF 5V AND THEN
>
> the sample and hold would sample the voltage given by the cpu and
> hold it in the output this would be sent tothe filters
>
> this was first done on an 8bit system
>
> thats why some analog synths that are cpu controlled were a little
> steppy
>
> the later synths like the jx3p and 8p and the matrix12 used 12bit
> dacs for the cv control giving better rate but on the matrix 1000 it
> was left as 8bits and is very steppy
>
> for those type of sounds today i use the shruthi which is digital
> and a new analog filter
>
> out of all digital res filters i have used the roland s series
> samplers and the kurzweil vast dsp system are the best
>
> yamaha are not that bad sy99sy77 and the va and later synths
>
> as for wavetable synthesis using your own wavetables the eps16+/
> asr10 ts10/12 are the best and can do way more than the waldorfs can
> do
>
> i own a waldorf wave and a uwave 1
>
> i have owned a blofeld and a q but i got rid of those as i could do
> the sounds on the ensoniqs but bigger more massive sounding
>
> and with wavetables res filters are no good as you lose the fealing
> of the wavetable at high res settings they just become sin waves
> losing all the detail of the wavetable
>
> even on the ppg the patches that used the scanning capability did
> not use res
>
> the res usually was used when just using a single cycle of the table
> with no wavetable morph to simulate analog synths that only used sin/
> tri/square/saw noise waves
>
> i like the filters on the s3200 with its extra filter board you can
> do some neat filter tricks
>
> i liked this sampler so much i still own 5 of them with 3 having the
> 135mb optical drives
>
> i have 5 asr10 3 keyboards 2 racks
>
> and 3 s760 samplers and 1 s770 nice dacs on that
>
> i like the s950 and i have a mpc60 which i use for hardware sequencer
>
> kurzweil k2000sp and k2500 rack
>
> tx16w
>
> the 2 dsm1 used mainly for support of the t1 and t3ex
>
> the dss1x with the usb and the 16mb upgrade with wave file support
>
> EII/EIII/e6400ultra/emulatorx2
>
> i have owned a synclavier and a fairlight cmxIII
>
> but sold both of them ages ago when they were fetching big second
> hand mula
>
> i own a gem s2turbo which is also a good wavetable synthand can add
> your own
>
> being a synth tech i get my hands on so many synths and samplers and
> get given stuff that people no longer want as part payments
>
> the fz1 still has at to play in songs as its gritty and can do very
> good synth type sounds
>
> the alphajuno1/2 the hoover sound was sampled a lot as the filter
> and pitch modulation for hoover type sounds was great on the fz1 and
> was used by many freinds in the early 80,s for this
>
> yes the alphajuno could do it but in unison mode you only get 1 key
> sampling the unison mode and then putting it through thr fz1 filter
> with the pitch and the filter cuttoff modulated with the mod wheel
> made it so much fatter with doing chords
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jason Adkins
> To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 1:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [CZsynth] casio fz10m
>
>
>
> Hiya,
>
> I know what you mean,but the filters on my S5000 are not too bad.
> I'm sure we have probably had this conversation before but if the
> DSM-1 had those facilities basically in the first place why did they
> release it as it was? It just doesn't make sense unless they didn't
> want to take sales away from the DSS-1?
>
> J
>
> On 21 Oct 2012, at 10:34, jammie wrote:
>
>> yes but the akai are so clinical digital
>>
>> even though the dsm1 never had res it did still have analog filters
>> and they are warm
>>
>> i use the dsm1 mainly for pcm creation of samples for the t1 and
>> t3ex that i have i have 2 dsm1 1 which i have done the res
>> conversion and the external inputs so i can run my digital synths
>> through it
>>
>> AND ONE TOTALLY UNTOUCHED VERSION
>>
>> we are working on a usb and 16mb upgrade for it with a filter
>> upgrade board that will fit in the original pads in sockets this
>> will give us res but also we are doing the pole mixing like the
>> matrix12
>>
>> my spectral sound sets can be used on the fz1 ill do a bunch in fzf
>> format which you can dump to the synth via midi let me know what
>> waveshapes you want
>>
>> i have the full single cycle waves of each wavetable of the ppg
>> series
>>
>> same for the uwave and the uwavext
>>
>> i have the 128 wavetable 1/2 of the waldorfq
>>
>> the waves tables of the esq1 and the vfx range
>>
>> the prophet vs including my user waves
>>
>> the kawai k3 k1/k4/
>>
>> and lots of analog waves sampled from analog synths
>>
>> by layering them in the fz1 range you can get 4 samples layered with
>> 2 note poly to do d50 or prophet vs type patches
>>
>> and you can do 8 layer unison detuned type sounds using 8 layers by
>> layering them and detuning them with a sub osc being 2 octaves lower
>> you can get very fat sounds
>>
>> and i like the analog filter on the fz1 its digitally controlled but
>> the audio is pure analog same way the osc are controlled on the dco
>> of the roland series
>>
>> which are pure analog patch with digital clock stable tune control
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jason Adkins
>> To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 1:50 AM
>> Subject: Re: [CZsynth] casio fz10m
>>
>>
>>
>> You certainly seem to be doing some interesting stuff Jammie.
>> I used to have briefly a DSM1,sorry I hated it nowhere near as good
>> as
>> the DSS-1 no delay's and no analogue filters as standard without
>> f**king about with it (I''m no circuit bender sadly) sorry I love the
>> digital wave stuff but I'm still a tart when it comes to analogue
>> filters and the floppy on the DSM1 was a c**t. no wonder everybody
>> and
>> his wife bought an Akai.
>>
>> I think I may have Turbosynth.... also you can do some interesting
>> stuff with Steinberg Avalon (Atari again).
>>
>> Sorry for truncated response my football team Norwich are on match of
>> the day in a moment which I want to watch, they beat Arsenal for the
>> first time at Carrow Road in 28 years today.
>>
>> J
>>
>> On 20 Oct 2012, at 22:38, jammie wrote:
>>
>>> i have loads of 8bit waves for the prophet vs
>>>
>>> we are working on new pcm cards for the wavestation so in the near
>>> future it will be possible to write new pcm data to the pcm card
>>>
>>> plus they are going to be 2-4mb switched in 512k banks
>>>
>>> get a dsm1 they are great same additive engine as the dss1 and it
>>> has 4 multitimbral so doing prophet vs sounds is easy
>>>
>>> but with samples so its more like a jd800/jd990 but with analog
>>> filters
>>>
>>> the dsm1 has 16 of the dss1 chips res is tied to ground but easy to
>>> cut a trace add a 100ohm resister for current limiting and adding a
>>> pot to a 5v source this willgive good res but not self osc becuase
>>> you need 7v for that
>>>
>>> i used on one of my dsm1 machines with a doepfer midi to cv
>>> controller you get 16 midi cv outputs that can be set up to any midi
>>> cc control they are 0-5 v cv,s
>>>
>>> the emax uses the same type of system but you have 32 partials but
>>> you also get to do them on a table ppg style
>>>
>>> you choose various additive waveforms on this table then you set
>>> volume envelopes for each cycle in the table and pitch envelopes and
>>> the you interpolate from one single cycle to the other creating a
>>> spectral variating waveform like as if you were scanning the ppg
>>> wavetables
>>>
>>> the emax then creates this as a multisample and then you loop it or
>>> what ever to get good no clicking loops of this file you need to use
>>> the same single cycle additive waveform
>>>
>>> for slot one and the end slot
>>>
>>> the digidesign designed a software program that copied this and it
>>> could do it on a mac screen rather than use the tiny lcd
>>>
>>> it was called softsynth both for mac and atari
>>>
>>> then they did a better version called turbo synth both mac and atari
>>>
>>> i used to use it on the mirage as it did great wavetables like this
>>> and made it easy for looping
>>>
>>> i create transwaves the same way for ensoniqs as they can sweep them
>>> like the ppg
>>>
>>> i have done all the ppg
>>>
>>> the uwaveand wave which has 64 of them which also include the ppg
>>> but they sound different becuase the uwave and xt use half cycle
>>> waves then they compute the other half as a mirror image
>>>
>>> which is impossible to do with additive synthesis
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Jason Adkins
>>> To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 9:56 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [CZsynth] casio fz10m
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Jammie,
>>>
>>> I have never used an Emax I think Francis Cote who post's on here
>>> has
>>> an Emax or 2 so he'd be a good guy to talk to.
>>> I'd love a DSS1 again but I havn't got the space now sadly (I used
>>> to
>>> keep all my gear around a friends house at the time) those things
>>> are
>>> f**king huge.
>>> Can you do a similar trick with a wavestation/prophet VS?
>>>
>>> J
>>>
>>> On 20 Oct 2012, at 21:33, jammie wrote:
>>>
>>>> and single cycle waves are the way to go with theses samplers the
>>>> k3
>>>> k5 k5000 ppg dss1 and the fz1 range all have additive sin synthesis
>>>>
>>>> but the neat trick on both the dss1 and the fz range is that you
>>>> can
>>>> link mix the additive waves to create a moving wavetable
>>>>
>>>> a bit like the emax spectral synth generation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: jammie
>>>> To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 9:29 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [CZsynth] casio fz10m
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> yes you can fit scsi its the card fitted to the fz20
>>>>
>>>> but you need a copy of the scsi floppy access software
>>>>
>>>> and charlie still needs to get a good working floppy drive
>>>>
>>>> the floppy emulator is cheaper than a replacement drive
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Jason Adkins
>>>> To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 9:19 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [CZsynth] casio fz10m
>>>>
>>>> I think the FZ1/10m/20m is worth the effort the synth section
>>>> sounds
>>>> superb,my friend used to use that all the time,the only other
>>>> synth/
>>>> sampler I have used which had the a similar function was the Korg
>>>> DSS-1 (just usiing a slider) although there are a few programs for
>>>> the
>>>> Atari which allow you to draw a waveform as does the Roland
>>>> samplers
>>>> and the Fairlight of course.
>>>> I think a PPG and possibly the Kawai K5 could do additive drawing
>>>> using a slider too.
>>>> I know the FZ10m could be fitted with scsi because I saw one in a
>>>> studio in Islington London and I asked the engineer if I could
>>>> have a
>>>> look around the back because he was loading sounds to it from a Jaz
>>>> drive.
>>>>
>>>> J
>>>>
>>>> On 19 Oct 2012, at 00:18, charlie midi gfa wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> im sure the technicians will love me $$$ ,
>>>>> and by now the prices of a
>>>>> shugart to scsi adaptor has sky rocketed.....
>>>>> so the raw image is it 1.68 Mb?
>>>>> please go on jammie , do you use some of this technology
>>>>> personally?
>>>>> i am interested adapting
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> charles
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Jason Adkins" <jason_ralf808@...>
>>>>> To: <CZsynth@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 3:23 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [CZsynth] casio fz10m
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't agree,I think the FZ10m had a scsi option too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 18 Oct 2012, at 19:43, jammie wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> its the floppy emulator image software that does a raw image it
>>>>>>> cant
>>>>>>> be read by anything except the fz1/fz10/fz20
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> there is no other programs that can write the floppy image back
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> the floppy becuase its a different speed
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> only the fz20 had scsi and its useless with out the floppy as
>>>>>>> its a
>>>>>>> floppy disk access program has to be loaded sop that the fz20
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> use the scsi
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: Jason Adkins
>>>>>>> To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 7:35 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [CZsynth] casio fz10m
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Isn't there a PC program that will image FZ1/10m/20m floppies?
>>>>>>> Is your FZ10m fitted with SCSI?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> J
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 17 Oct 2012, at 00:11, charlie midi gfa wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> so a little o.t.
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> anybody tell me what drive will work in a fz10m ,
>>>>>>>> (cross reference the matsushita ju-255 )
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i can't find suitable drive or a indentical one to repair the
>>>>>>>> fz10m
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> charles
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]Message
Re: [CZsynth] casio fz10m
2012-10-22 by jammie