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CZ1 aftertouch confusion

CZ1 aftertouch confusion

2011-06-07 by wjamesmeagher

Hi all,
I've had my CZ1 (my first "real" synth) for a few weeks now and have
managed (with the user manual and reading a lot of previous posts made
here) to figure out its PD programming, and also how to transfer SysEx
to and from my computer.
I am however a bit stumped regarding the "aftertouch" feature. At first
I assumed that the aftertouch on my CZ1 simply wasn't working as varying
the pressure on the keys while holding them down sonically seems to have
zero effect no matter what tone I'm using. Then I thought I'd actually
record the MIDI info coming from the CZ into Logic while I played a few
notes and varied the pressure - sure enough it seems to be sending a
fairly steady stream of Channel Pressure messages which I assume are
coming from the aftertouch function of the keyboard . . . but still no
noticeable effect on the sound no matter what tone I'm applying it to.
I can't find anything in the Operation Manual regarding any settings or
functionality of the aftertouch so at this point I'm just scratching my
head. I seem to remember reading somewhere some time ago that the
aftertouch only affects Vibrato on the CZ1, but even when playing with
the Vibrato settings on various tones I can't seem to hear anything
happening as a result of the aftertouch pressure applied.
Here's an image of MIDI info coming from the keyboard into Logic as I
hold down one key and vary the pressure:
  [CZ1 aftertouch MIDI info in Logic]
Any ideas what I'm missing here? I'm sure it's probably something
ridiculously obvious!
Cheers,James




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [CZsynth] CZ1 aftertouch confusion

2011-06-07 by tomlinson6050@roadrunner.com

---- wjamesmeagher <w.james.meagher@...> wrote: 

=============
Hi all,
I've had my CZ1 (my first "real" synth) for a few weeks now and have
managed (with the user manual and reading a lot of previous posts made
here) to figure out its PD programming, and also how to transfer SysEx
to and from my computer.
I am however a bit stumped regarding the "aftertouch" feature. At first
I assumed that the aftertouch on my CZ1 simply wasn't working as varying
the pressure on the keys while holding them down sonically seems to have
zero effect no matter what tone I'm using. Then I thought I'd actually
record the MIDI info coming from the CZ into Logic while I played a few
notes and varied the pressure - sure enough it seems to be sending a
fairly steady stream of Channel Pressure messages which I assume are
coming from the aftertouch function of the keyboard . . . but still no
noticeable effect on the sound no matter what tone I'm applying it to.
I can't find anything in the Operation Manual regarding any settings or
functionality of the aftertouch so at this point I'm just scratching my
head. I seem to remember reading somewhere some time ago that the
aftertouch only affects Vibrato on the CZ1, but even when playing with
the Vibrato settings on various tones I can't seem to hear anything
happening as a result of the aftertouch pressure applied.
Here's an image of MIDI info coming from the keyboard into Logic as I
hold down one key and vary the pressure:
  [CZ1 aftertouch MIDI info in Logic]
Any ideas what I'm missing here? I'm sure it's probably something
ridiculously obvious!
Cheers,James

777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777

Press the MODULATION WHEEL / AFTERTOUCH button
scroll down one page to MOD.AFTERTOUCH DEPTH and set for non-zero
scroll down again to AMP.AFTERTOUCH DEPTH and set that if you want.

Bill

Re: [CZsynth] CZ1 aftertouch confusion

2011-06-07 by Wilson Zorn

Hmmm, maybe check the After Touch Range?  See page 18 at least as numbered
in the manual at
http://www.synthzone.com/midi/casio/cz1/CZ1%20USER%20MANUAL.pdf    Perhaps
the range is set to 00 on the sound(s) in question, so no response on the
synth but the midi data is still valid.

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 2:08 PM, wjamesmeagher <w.james.meagher@...>wrote:

> Hi all,
> I've had my CZ1 (my first "real" synth) for a few weeks now and have
> managed (with the user manual and reading a lot of previous posts made
> here) to figure out its PD programming, and also how to transfer SysEx
> to and from my computer.
> I am however a bit stumped regarding the "aftertouch" feature. At first
> I assumed that the aftertouch on my CZ1 simply wasn't working as varying
> the pressure on the keys while holding them down sonically seems to have
> zero effect no matter what tone I'm using. Then I thought I'd actually
> record the MIDI info coming from the CZ into Logic while I played a few
> notes and varied the pressure - sure enough it seems to be sending a
> fairly steady stream of Channel Pressure messages which I assume are
> coming from the aftertouch function of the keyboard . . . but still no
> noticeable effect on the sound no matter what tone I'm applying it to.
> I can't find anything in the Operation Manual regarding any settings or
> functionality of the aftertouch so at this point I'm just scratching my
> head. I seem to remember reading somewhere some time ago that the
> aftertouch only affects Vibrato on the CZ1, but even when playing with
> the Vibrato settings on various tones I can't seem to hear anything
> happening as a result of the aftertouch pressure applied.
> Here's an image of MIDI info coming from the keyboard into Logic as I
> hold down one key and vary the pressure:
>  [CZ1 aftertouch MIDI info in Logic]
> Any ideas what I'm missing here? I'm sure it's probably something
> ridiculously obvious!
> Cheers,James
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [CZsynth] CZ1 aftertouch confusion

2011-06-07 by james meagher

Yes. Thanks Bill & Wilson, I've got it going now and it's working perfectly.

I assumed that the Modulation button on the CZ1 was only for settings
related to the mod wheel. Also, as I couldn't find anything about After
Touch in the Manual's table of contents so I was mostly hunting for the info
much further on, around page 29 where it discusses the velocity settings for
the keys (as that was the closest related thing I could think of to after
touch).

Thanks for all the help! It always seems to be the simplest things that get
me stumped and the stuff I think is going to be really hard that ends up
going smoothly!

Cheers,
James

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 5:44 PM, Wilson Zorn <wilson.zorn@...>wrote:

>
>
> Hmmm, maybe check the After Touch Range? See page 18 at least as numbered
> in the manual at
> http://www.synthzone.com/midi/casio/cz1/CZ1%20USER%20MANUAL.pdf Perhaps
> the range is set to 00 on the sound(s) in question, so no response on the
> synth but the midi data is still valid.
>
> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 2:08 PM, wjamesmeagher <w.james.meagher@...
> >wrote:
>
>
> > Hi all,
> > I've had my CZ1 (my first "real" synth) for a few weeks now and have
> > managed (with the user manual and reading a lot of previous posts made
> > here) to figure out its PD programming, and also how to transfer SysEx
> > to and from my computer.
> > I am however a bit stumped regarding the "aftertouch" feature. At first
> > I assumed that the aftertouch on my CZ1 simply wasn't working as varying
> > the pressure on the keys while holding them down sonically seems to have
> > zero effect no matter what tone I'm using. Then I thought I'd actually
> > record the MIDI info coming from the CZ into Logic while I played a few
> > notes and varied the pressure - sure enough it seems to be sending a
> > fairly steady stream of Channel Pressure messages which I assume are
> > coming from the aftertouch function of the keyboard . . . but still no
> > noticeable effect on the sound no matter what tone I'm applying it to.
> > I can't find anything in the Operation Manual regarding any settings or
> > functionality of the aftertouch so at this point I'm just scratching my
> > head. I seem to remember reading somewhere some time ago that the
> > aftertouch only affects Vibrato on the CZ1, but even when playing with
> > the Vibrato settings on various tones I can't seem to hear anything
> > happening as a result of the aftertouch pressure applied.
> > Here's an image of MIDI info coming from the keyboard into Logic as I
> > hold down one key and vary the pressure:
> > [CZ1 aftertouch MIDI info in Logic]
> > Any ideas what I'm missing here? I'm sure it's probably something
> > ridiculously obvious!
> > Cheers,James
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>



-- 
C'est La Guerre Moving Pictures Inc.
364 Home Street
Winnipeg, Manitoba
R3G 1X4
(204) 918 9317


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [CZsynth] CZ1 aftertouch confusion

2011-06-08 by tomlinson6050@roadrunner.com

Saw you post about polyphony.
Be sure the "TONE MIX" button is OFF. If it is ON, you can select two single tnes that will be layered - giving four-note playing. Try and see if the LED on this button maybe burned out.

Bill

Re: [CZsynth] CZ1 aftertouch confusion

2011-06-08 by james meagher

Thanks for that idea Bill.

Yeah, regarding the polyphony issue, I've been doing more testing today, and
one of those tests was to play in Tone Mix Mode . . . and sure enough, in
Tone Mix, I can play only *two* notes simultaneously - not four. I tried
resetting the synth, but that seems to have made no difference. It really
just seems like in whatever mode I'm playing I get half the usual
polyphony.

Normal mode with one oscillator - 8 notes can be played at once.
Normal mode with two oscillators - 4 notes can be played at once.
Tone Mix using two tones that each use two oscillators - 2 notes can be
played at once.

So, it's like I have half a CZ1!!!

Waiting for eBay seller to respond to my message regarding this issue (he
also didn't disclose that the LCD backlight was burnt out - listing item as
100% functional) . . . and reading up on the eBay/PayPal Resolution Center
procedures!

James



On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 1:04 PM, <tomlinson6050@...> wrote:

>
> Saw you post about polyphony.
> Be sure the "TONE MIX" button is OFF. If it is ON, you can select two
> single tnes that will be layered - giving four-note playing. Try and see if
> the LED on this button maybe burned out.
>
> Bill
>



-- 
C'est La Guerre Moving Pictures Inc.
364 Home Street
Winnipeg, Manitoba
R3G 1X4
(204) 918 9317


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [CZsynth] CZ1 aftertouch confusion

2011-06-08 by thomas story

Are you playing through a sequencer? I would imagine if you don't have  
"local" off then the sequencer you're connected to through the  
computer would be doubling the notes by sending them back to the CZ. ??

  Just a thought

tom
On Jun 8, 2011, at 11:14 AM, james meagher wrote:

Thanks for that idea Bill.

Yeah, regarding the polyphony issue, I've been doing more testing  
today, and
one of those tests was to play in Tone Mix Mode . . . and sure enough,  
in
Tone Mix, I can play only *two* notes simultaneously - not four. I tried
resetting the synth, but that seems to have made no difference. It  
really
just seems like in whatever mode I'm playing I get half the usual
polyphony.

Normal mode with one oscillator - 8 notes can be played at once.
Normal mode with two oscillators - 4 notes can be played at once.
Tone Mix using two tones that each use two oscillators - 2 notes can be
played at once.

So, it's like I have half a CZ1!!!

Waiting for eBay seller to respond to my message regarding this issue  
(he
also didn't disclose that the LCD backlight was burnt out - listing  
item as
100% functional) . . . and reading up on the eBay/PayPal Resolution  
Center
procedures!

James

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 1:04 PM, <tomlinson6050@...> wrote:

 >
 > Saw you post about polyphony.
 > Be sure the "TONE MIX" button is OFF. If it is ON, you can select two
 > single tnes that will be layered - giving four-note playing. Try  
and see if
 > the LED on this button maybe burned out.
 >
 > Bill
 >

-- 
C'est La Guerre Moving Pictures Inc.
364 Home Street
Winnipeg, Manitoba
R3G 1X4
(204) 918 9317

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [CZsynth] CZ1 aftertouch confusion

2011-06-08 by Simon Beck

Be optimistic. You also have a unique CZ-101 with a full-sized 5-octave 
velocity and after-touch sensitive keyboard. Oh, and a mod wheel... ;-)

Simon

> So, it's like I have half a CZ1!!!

Re: [CZsynth] CZ1 aftertouch confusion

2011-06-08 by tomlinson6050@roadrunner.com

SUXXXXX !!!

If you get the joker to take it back, great. Otherwise, let me get out the schematics and see if anything jumps out as a potential problem. Also, I have successfully replaced the LCDs with new white test on blue background ones...takes a little drilling and soldering. IIRC there are two tone generator ICs in the CZ-1...each making 8 notes. So if one died..... Or, if the signals from the CPU were not reaching one of them....

I'll get back to you

Bill 
tomlinson6050@...

Come join us at www.vintagesynth.com

I go by "rhino"

Re: [CZsynth] CZ1 aftertouch confusion

2011-06-08 by tomlinson6050@roadrunner.com

WAAAAaaaadaminnnnnitttt !!

You said your were sending and recieving SYSEX to a computer....

Have you got a MIDI LOOP?

This has 'gotten' many synth owners..INCLUDING ME !!!!

Pull the MIDI cables and try again.

If you've already thought of that, then BTTDB !!!

Bill

Re: CZ1 aftertouch confusion

2011-06-08 by steve_the_composer

The suggestion to turn local off might work if you have a midi loop such that the out of the CZ is going back into the CZ (directly or indirectly). Another test would be to unplug either the CZ midi out or the CZ midi in. If you have 8 note polyphony in normal mode or 4 note polyphony in tone mix mode with one of the midi cables unplugged, but only have when plugged in, you have a midi loop at work. Turning the CZ local off should solve the problem.

BUT WAIT!!!!!!!!

No need to unplug anything. The CZ-1 has a MIDI button, doesn't it? Just turn midi off with the button. That should tell you whether or not you have a midi loop. (Figures, I think of that after typing the more complicated test!!!)

Steve

Footnote: The CZ3000 and CZ5000 were capable of 16 note polyphony from the keyboard for one oscilator patches. I don't recall if you could do that on the CZ-1.

Glad you solved the AT problem.

--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, james meagher <w.james.meagher@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Thanks for that idea Bill.
> 
> Yeah, regarding the polyphony issue, I've been doing more testing today, and
> one of those tests was to play in Tone Mix Mode . . . and sure enough, in
> Tone Mix, I can play only *two* notes simultaneously - not four. I tried
> resetting the synth, but that seems to have made no difference. It really
> just seems like in whatever mode I'm playing I get half the usual
> polyphony.
> 
> Normal mode with one oscillator - 8 notes can be played at once.
> Normal mode with two oscillators - 4 notes can be played at once.
> Tone Mix using two tones that each use two oscillators - 2 notes can be
> played at once.
> 
> So, it's like I have half a CZ1!!!
> 
> Waiting for eBay seller to respond to my message regarding this issue (he
> also didn't disclose that the LCD backlight was burnt out - listing item as
> 100% functional) . . . and reading up on the eBay/PayPal Resolution Center
> procedures!
> 
> James
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 1:04 PM, <tomlinson6050@...> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Saw you post about polyphony.
> > Be sure the "TONE MIX" button is OFF. If it is ON, you can select two
> > single tnes that will be layered - giving four-note playing. Try and see if
> > the LED on this button maybe burned out.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> C'est La Guerre Moving Pictures Inc.
> 364 Home Street
> Winnipeg, Manitoba
> R3G 1X4
> (204) 918 9317
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: CZ1 aftertouch confusion

2011-06-08 by steve_the_composer

That should read:

 . . . but only have >>half that<< when plugged in . . . 

--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> The suggestion to turn local off might work if you have a midi loop such that the out of the CZ is going back into the CZ (directly or indirectly). Another test would be to unplug either the CZ midi out or the CZ midi in. If you have 8 note polyphony in normal mode or 4 note polyphony in tone mix mode with one of the midi cables unplugged, but only have >>half that<< when plugged in, you have a midi loop at work. Turning the CZ local off should solve the problem.
> 
> BUT WAIT!!!!!!!!
> 
> No need to unplug anything. The CZ-1 has a MIDI button, doesn't it? Just turn midi off with the button. That should tell you whether or not you have a midi loop. (Figures, I think of that after typing the more complicated test!!!)
> 
> Steve
> 
> Footnote: The CZ3000 and CZ5000 were capable of 16 note polyphony from the keyboard for one oscilator patches. I don't recall if you could do that on the CZ-1.
> 
> Glad you solved the AT problem.
> 
> --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, james meagher <w.james.meagher@> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for that idea Bill.
> > 
> > Yeah, regarding the polyphony issue, I've been doing more testing today, and
> > one of those tests was to play in Tone Mix Mode . . . and sure enough, in
> > Tone Mix, I can play only *two* notes simultaneously - not four. I tried
> > resetting the synth, but that seems to have made no difference. It really
> > just seems like in whatever mode I'm playing I get half the usual
> > polyphony.
> > 
> > Normal mode with one oscillator - 8 notes can be played at once.
> > Normal mode with two oscillators - 4 notes can be played at once.
> > Tone Mix using two tones that each use two oscillators - 2 notes can be
> > played at once.
> > 
> > So, it's like I have half a CZ1!!!
> > 
> > Waiting for eBay seller to respond to my message regarding this issue (he
> > also didn't disclose that the LCD backlight was burnt out - listing item as
> > 100% functional) . . . and reading up on the eBay/PayPal Resolution Center
> > procedures!
> > 
> > James
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 1:04 PM, <tomlinson6050@> wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > > Saw you post about polyphony.
> > > Be sure the "TONE MIX" button is OFF. If it is ON, you can select two
> > > single tnes that will be layered - giving four-note playing. Try and see if
> > > the LED on this button maybe burned out.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > C'est La Guerre Moving Pictures Inc.
> > 364 Home Street
> > Winnipeg, Manitoba
> > R3G 1X4
> > (204) 918 9317
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Re: [CZsynth] Re: CZ1 aftertouch confusion

2011-06-08 by james meagher

So, while the ultimate mystery has been solved (my very first MIDI loop!),
turning the CZ1's MIDI button on or off seems to have not effect on the
issue. So far I can only "kill the loop" by unplugging one of the MIDI
cables (IN or OUT).

I'll have a look in the Manual right away to see how to turn the Local off
internally, perhaps the answer lies there . . . or perhaps this is something
I should be solving with my MIDI routing within Logic Pro, as the loop is
killed once I close Logic Pro, even with both the IN and OUT MIDI cables
plugged into the CZ1 and the computer?

Wow. All this trouble-shooting. I just want to make some music!

James



On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 5:51 PM, steve_the_composer <smw-mail@...>wrote:

>
>
> That should read:
>
> . . . but only have >>half that<< when plugged in . . .
>
> --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:
> >
> > The suggestion to turn local off might work if you have a midi loop such
> that the out of the CZ is going back into the CZ (directly or indirectly).
> Another test would be to unplug either the CZ midi out or the CZ midi in. If
> you have 8 note polyphony in normal mode or 4 note polyphony in tone mix
> mode with one of the midi cables unplugged, but only have >>half that<< when
> plugged in, you have a midi loop at work. Turning the CZ local off should
> solve the problem.
>
> >
> > BUT WAIT!!!!!!!!
> >
> > No need to unplug anything. The CZ-1 has a MIDI button, doesn't it? Just
> turn midi off with the button. That should tell you whether or not you have
> a midi loop. (Figures, I think of that after typing the more complicated
> test!!!)
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > Footnote: The CZ3000 and CZ5000 were capable of 16 note polyphony from
> the keyboard for one oscilator patches. I don't recall if you could do that
> on the CZ-1.
> >
> > Glad you solved the AT problem.
> >
> > --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, james meagher <w.james.meagher@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks for that idea Bill.
> > >
> > > Yeah, regarding the polyphony issue, I've been doing more testing
> today, and
> > > one of those tests was to play in Tone Mix Mode . . . and sure enough,
> in
> > > Tone Mix, I can play only *two* notes simultaneously - not four. I
> tried
> > > resetting the synth, but that seems to have made no difference. It
> really
> > > just seems like in whatever mode I'm playing I get half the usual
> > > polyphony.
> > >
> > > Normal mode with one oscillator - 8 notes can be played at once.
> > > Normal mode with two oscillators - 4 notes can be played at once.
> > > Tone Mix using two tones that each use two oscillators - 2 notes can be
> > > played at once.
> > >
> > > So, it's like I have half a CZ1!!!
> > >
> > > Waiting for eBay seller to respond to my message regarding this issue
> (he
> > > also didn't disclose that the LCD backlight was burnt out - listing
> item as
> > > 100% functional) . . . and reading up on the eBay/PayPal Resolution
> Center
> > > procedures!
> > >
> > > James
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 1:04 PM, <tomlinson6050@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Saw you post about polyphony.
> > > > Be sure the "TONE MIX" button is OFF. If it is ON, you can select two
> > > > single tnes that will be layered - giving four-note playing. Try and
> see if
> > > > the LED on this button maybe burned out.
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > C'est La Guerre Moving Pictures Inc.
> > > 364 Home Street
> > > Winnipeg, Manitoba
> > > R3G 1X4
> > > (204) 918 9317
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>
>  
>



-- 
C'est La Guerre Moving Pictures Inc.
364 Home Street
Winnipeg, Manitoba
R3G 1X4
(204) 918 9317


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: CZ1 aftertouch confusion

2011-06-11 by jpshea

Both the Modulation Wheel and Keyboard Aftertouch are available as mod sources for the Vibrato LFO.

In the EFFECT section, see the "M.WHEEL / AFTER TOUCH" button. Set Aftertouch to max, then press down (hard) on the key.

The "MODU-LATION" button in the TOTAL CONTROL section needs to be on.

See p. 9 of the Operation Manual. After touch is discussed in detail on p. 18.

I found that on my keyboard, I had to press really hard, and this wasn't generally conducive to playing style.

A well programmed VIBRATO Delay was much better. In fact it is amazing that so many VSTI's don't implement this simple, but critical feature.

Don't forget that you still have plenty of envelope steps up your sleeve *after* the note off event (i.e. after the Sustain point), so you can still do things like echo type effects, swells or clicks with the DCA, DCF etc.

Regards,
JPS

ps: CZ-1 spotters may be interested in having a listen here:

http://music.thejesuscleaver.com

plenty of CZ-1 bells, bass, and strings in there!

--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "wjamesmeagher" <w.james.meagher@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hi all,
> I've had my CZ1 (my first "real" synth) for a few weeks now and have
> managed (with the user manual and reading a lot of previous posts made
> here) to figure out its PD programming, and also how to transfer SysEx
> to and from my computer.
> I am however a bit stumped regarding the "aftertouch" feature. At first
> I assumed that the aftertouch on my CZ1 simply wasn't working as varying
> the pressure on the keys while holding them down sonically seems to have
> zero effect no matter what tone I'm using. Then I thought I'd actually
> record the MIDI info coming from the CZ into Logic while I played a few
> notes and varied the pressure - sure enough it seems to be sending a
> fairly steady stream of Channel Pressure messages which I assume are
> coming from the aftertouch function of the keyboard . . . but still no
> noticeable effect on the sound no matter what tone I'm applying it to.
> I can't find anything in the Operation Manual regarding any settings or
> functionality of the aftertouch so at this point I'm just scratching my
> head. I seem to remember reading somewhere some time ago that the
> aftertouch only affects Vibrato on the CZ1, but even when playing with
> the Vibrato settings on various tones I can't seem to hear anything
> happening as a result of the aftertouch pressure applied.
> Here's an image of MIDI info coming from the keyboard into Logic as I
> hold down one key and vary the pressure:
>   [CZ1 aftertouch MIDI info in Logic]
> Any ideas what I'm missing here? I'm sure it's probably something
> ridiculously obvious!
> Cheers,James
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [CZsynth] Re: CZ1 aftertouch confusion

2011-06-11 by james meagher

Thanks JPS,

As I got further and further into investigating why I could get no After
Touch modulation, once I'd found the After Touch settings and readjusted
them to non-zero levels, it was ultimately the need to have the MODULATION
button in the TOTAL CONTROL section *ON* that was eluding me.

What I found most interesting about your post though was your comment about
the unnatural amount of pressure needed to trigger the After Touch on your
board, because I have found the same thing now that I've actually got it
working. Is this the way all the CZ-1 boards are, or is this the result of
much use, breakdown and age, and perhaps something that could be serviced to
have more of a natural responsiveness again?

Cheers,
James



On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 5:34 AM, jpshea <webform@...> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> Both the Modulation Wheel and Keyboard Aftertouch are available as mod
> sources for the Vibrato LFO.
>
> In the EFFECT section, see the "M.WHEEL / AFTER TOUCH" button. Set
> Aftertouch to max, then press down (hard) on the key.
>
> The "MODU-LATION" button in the TOTAL CONTROL section needs to be on.
>
> See p. 9 of the Operation Manual. After touch is discussed in detail on p.
> 18.
>
> I found that on my keyboard, I had to press really hard, and this wasn't
> generally conducive to playing style.
>
> A well programmed VIBRATO Delay was much better. In fact it is amazing that
> so many VSTI's don't implement this simple, but critical feature.
>
> Don't forget that you still have plenty of envelope steps up your sleeve
> *after* the note off event (i.e. after the Sustain point), so you can still
> do things like echo type effects, swells or clicks with the DCA, DCF etc.
>
> Regards,
> JPS
>
> ps: CZ-1 spotters may be interested in having a listen here:
>
> http://music.thejesuscleaver.com
>
> plenty of CZ-1 bells, bass, and strings in there!
>
>
> --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "wjamesmeagher" <w.james.meagher@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> > I've had my CZ1 (my first "real" synth) for a few weeks now and have
> > managed (with the user manual and reading a lot of previous posts made
> > here) to figure out its PD programming, and also how to transfer SysEx
> > to and from my computer.
> > I am however a bit stumped regarding the "aftertouch" feature. At first
> > I assumed that the aftertouch on my CZ1 simply wasn't working as varying
> > the pressure on the keys while holding them down sonically seems to have
> > zero effect no matter what tone I'm using. Then I thought I'd actually
> > record the MIDI info coming from the CZ into Logic while I played a few
> > notes and varied the pressure - sure enough it seems to be sending a
> > fairly steady stream of Channel Pressure messages which I assume are
> > coming from the aftertouch function of the keyboard . . . but still no
> > noticeable effect on the sound no matter what tone I'm applying it to.
> > I can't find anything in the Operation Manual regarding any settings or
> > functionality of the aftertouch so at this point I'm just scratching my
> > head. I seem to remember reading somewhere some time ago that the
> > aftertouch only affects Vibrato on the CZ1, but even when playing with
> > the Vibrato settings on various tones I can't seem to hear anything
> > happening as a result of the aftertouch pressure applied.
> > Here's an image of MIDI info coming from the keyboard into Logic as I
> > hold down one key and vary the pressure:
> > [CZ1 aftertouch MIDI info in Logic]
> > Any ideas what I'm missing here? I'm sure it's probably something
> > ridiculously obvious!
> > Cheers,James
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>  
>



-- 
C'est La Guerre Moving Pictures Inc.
364 Home Street
Winnipeg, Manitoba
R3G 1X4
(204) 918 9317


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: CZ1 aftertouch confusion

2011-06-11 by jpshea

Hi James,

Back in the 80's, there were many pressing issues – the cold war and nuclear Armageddon, AIDS, and Casio's aftertouch implementation on the CZ-1!

Sadly, too many of the above are still with us.

I guess they had to set it at a point where it wasn't triggered by the hardest of note on velocities, but you still have to press really hard afterwards.

It would be quite easy to write a JS script in Reaper to multiply the aftertouch values, in effect amplifying small values (but reducing the overall pressure range). Check out http://www.reaper.fm and the JS Discussion area in the forums there.

Regards,
JPS

--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, james meagher <w.james.meagher@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Thanks JPS,
> 
> As I got further and further into investigating why I could get no After
> Touch modulation, once I'd found the After Touch settings and readjusted
> them to non-zero levels, it was ultimately the need to have the MODULATION
> button in the TOTAL CONTROL section *ON* that was eluding me.
> 
> What I found most interesting about your post though was your comment about
> the unnatural amount of pressure needed to trigger the After Touch on your
> board, because I have found the same thing now that I've actually got it
> working. Is this the way all the CZ-1 boards are, or is this the result of
> much use, breakdown and age, and perhaps something that could be serviced to
> have more of a natural responsiveness again?
> 
> Cheers,
> James
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 5:34 AM, jpshea <webform@...> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Both the Modulation Wheel and Keyboard Aftertouch are available as mod
> > sources for the Vibrato LFO.
> >
> > In the EFFECT section, see the "M.WHEEL / AFTER TOUCH" button. Set
> > Aftertouch to max, then press down (hard) on the key.
> >
> > The "MODU-LATION" button in the TOTAL CONTROL section needs to be on.
> >
> > See p. 9 of the Operation Manual. After touch is discussed in detail on p.
> > 18.
> >
> > I found that on my keyboard, I had to press really hard, and this wasn't
> > generally conducive to playing style.
> >
> > A well programmed VIBRATO Delay was much better. In fact it is amazing that
> > so many VSTI's don't implement this simple, but critical feature.
> >
> > Don't forget that you still have plenty of envelope steps up your sleeve
> > *after* the note off event (i.e. after the Sustain point), so you can still
> > do things like echo type effects, swells or clicks with the DCA, DCF etc.
> >
> > Regards,
> > JPS
> >
> > ps: CZ-1 spotters may be interested in having a listen here:
> >
> > http://music.thejesuscleaver.com
> >
> > plenty of CZ-1 bells, bass, and strings in there!
> >
> >
> > --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "wjamesmeagher" <w.james.meagher@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > > I've had my CZ1 (my first "real" synth) for a few weeks now and have
> > > managed (with the user manual and reading a lot of previous posts made
> > > here) to figure out its PD programming, and also how to transfer SysEx
> > > to and from my computer.
> > > I am however a bit stumped regarding the "aftertouch" feature. At first
> > > I assumed that the aftertouch on my CZ1 simply wasn't working as varying
> > > the pressure on the keys while holding them down sonically seems to have
> > > zero effect no matter what tone I'm using. Then I thought I'd actually
> > > record the MIDI info coming from the CZ into Logic while I played a few
> > > notes and varied the pressure - sure enough it seems to be sending a
> > > fairly steady stream of Channel Pressure messages which I assume are
> > > coming from the aftertouch function of the keyboard . . . but still no
> > > noticeable effect on the sound no matter what tone I'm applying it to.
> > > I can't find anything in the Operation Manual regarding any settings or
> > > functionality of the aftertouch so at this point I'm just scratching my
> > > head. I seem to remember reading somewhere some time ago that the
> > > aftertouch only affects Vibrato on the CZ1, but even when playing with
> > > the Vibrato settings on various tones I can't seem to hear anything
> > > happening as a result of the aftertouch pressure applied.
> > > Here's an image of MIDI info coming from the keyboard into Logic as I
> > > hold down one key and vary the pressure:
> > > [CZ1 aftertouch MIDI info in Logic]
> > > Any ideas what I'm missing here? I'm sure it's probably something
> > > ridiculously obvious!
> > > Cheers,James
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> C'est La Guerre Moving Pictures Inc.
> 364 Home Street
> Winnipeg, Manitoba
> R3G 1X4
> (204) 918 9317
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: CZ1 aftertouch confusion

2011-06-12 by dlonrattam

James,

Replacing the whole LCD display with a modern part with an LED backlight is an option (as Bill describes).  However, it *would* be a little bit of work -- like a little "mod" -- as sometimes the newer part won't have exactly the same physical dimensions or electronic connections.  It is definitely do-able, but it is NOT something to attempt if you have no knowledge of electronics.

However, the reason your display has "burnt out" is likely because the original back-light in the CZ-1 is an electro-luminescent (EL) foil.  These naturally fade over time and one is actually lucky to find equipment of your CZ's age with a working EL foil.  Typically, they become very dim or completely dim after several years.  The display simply ends up looking like it isn't back-lit, but still "dislays" fine.  In fact, the guy who sold the CZ-1 to you might not even have been aware that the display was supposed to illuminate.

Fortunately, EL foils can be replaced much more simply that replacing the entire display.  Usually, they just "slide" out from behind the LCD as a thin sheet.  If you are comfortable the "mechanical" aspects of opening up your equipment, unscrewing lots of things, making a couple simple solder connections to the new foil, and putting it all back together, THEN you might consider doing the replacement yourself.

You can find EL foils on ebay or other places on the interwebs.  Some outfits even sell foils sized for soecific equipment.  Here is one for the CZ-1:

http://www.backlight4you.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=casio+cz-1&x=0&y=0

This outfit is a little expensive, IMO, but keep searching.

- Matt


--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, <tomlinson6050@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> 
> SUXXXXX !!!
> 
> If you get the joker to take it back, great. Otherwise, let me get out the schematics and see if anything jumps out as a potential problem. Also, I have successfully replaced the LCDs with new white test on blue background ones...takes a little drilling and soldering. IIRC there are two tone generator ICs in the CZ-1...each making 8 notes. So if one died..... Or, if the signals from the CPU were not reaching one of them....
> 
> I'll get back to you
> 
> Bill 
> tomlinson6050@...
> 
> Come join us at www.vintagesynth.com
> 
> I go by "rhino"
>

Re: [CZsynth] Re: CZ1 aftertouch confusion

2011-06-12 by w.james.meagher@gmail.com

Thanks a lot for that Matt! I actually ordered some blue EL foil from a place called... Glowhut.com if my memory is right. I think that taking things apart, making a few simple solder connections, and then putting it all back together is precisely at my current synth repair skill level - so I'm eager to give this repair a go... Everything more complex I let our local tech (for whom I have a great deal of trust and respect), deal with. It'll feel good to actually do something myself for once!

And I've been warned by another helpful member to be careful about the heat generated by the solder points near the EL foil.

Cheers,
James


Sent from my iPhone

On 2011-06-11, at 10:18 PM, "dlonrattam" <dlonrattam@...> wrote:

> James,
> 
> Replacing the whole LCD display with a modern part with an LED backlight is an option (as Bill describes). However, it *would* be a little bit of work -- like a little "mod" -- as sometimes the newer part won't have exactly the same physical dimensions or electronic connections. It is definitely do-able, but it is NOT something to attempt if you have no knowledge of electronics.
> 
> However, the reason your display has "burnt out" is likely because the original back-light in the CZ-1 is an electro-luminescent (EL) foil. These naturally fade over time and one is actually lucky to find equipment of your CZ's age with a working EL foil. Typically, they become very dim or completely dim after several years. The display simply ends up looking like it isn't back-lit, but still "dislays" fine. In fact, the guy who sold the CZ-1 to you might not even have been aware that the display was supposed to illuminate.
> 
> Fortunately, EL foils can be replaced much more simply that replacing the entire display. Usually, they just "slide" out from behind the LCD as a thin sheet. If you are comfortable the "mechanical" aspects of opening up your equipment, unscrewing lots of things, making a couple simple solder connections to the new foil, and putting it all back together, THEN you might consider doing the replacement yourself.
> 
> You can find EL foils on ebay or other places on the interwebs. Some outfits even sell foils sized for soecific equipment. Here is one for the CZ-1:
> 
> http://www.backlight4you.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=casio+cz-1&x=0&y=0
> 
> This outfit is a little expensive, IMO, but keep searching.
> 
> - Matt
> 
> --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, <tomlinson6050@...> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > SUXXXXX !!!
> > 
> > If you get the joker to take it back, great. Otherwise, let me get out the schematics and see if anything jumps out as a potential problem. Also, I have successfully replaced the LCDs with new white test on blue background ones...takes a little drilling and soldering. IIRC there are two tone generator ICs in the CZ-1...each making 8 notes. So if one died..... Or, if the signals from the CPU were not reaching one of them....
> > 
> > I'll get back to you
> > 
> > Bill 
> > tomlinson6050@...
> > 
> > Come join us at www.vintagesynth.com
> > 
> > I go by "rhino"
> >
> 
> 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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