Casio CZ/ VZ/ FZ - Pro Series

too bad manufactureers� didn't incorporate every possible combination while engineering

be cool to have individual control over each note in each midi channel

being able to apply cc and rpn to each note along with velocity� volume and modulation and sustain

oh well the future is yours ,,take your ideal and patent it

good discovery , even 20 x years after the things been released ....no one uses these items to their full capacity .......you seem to�� have fun

Yes it is a little confusing discerning this point in the manual. But I have not been able to get independent pitch bend ranges for the two voices, even with a key split saved to operation memory. In Operation Memory I put the cursor over tone 1, hit the 'bend range' button and set it to zero. It affects both tones. Then I put the cursor over tone 2, hit bend range and set to '2'. It again affects both tones.

I read over page 49, as you suggested and I believe that the "above listed data" that the manual refers to are only the data marked with an asterisk (Poramento, Glide, Solo on/off). This point is not that clearly written, IMO, though the manual in general is pretty clear.

I thought maybe I could devise a clever workaround, triggering the lower tone through a midi controller, but the pitch bend still affects both voices. I think I might have to change my whole live rig again and just use a cz1000 for leads and use my cz101 to trigger pads and drones. However the 101 doesn't have a pedal input so I'd need to trigger the pads with another keyboard.... the search for the perfect rig continues.  

    On Monday, September 26, 2016 3:29 AM, "Daniel Forró danforcz@... [CZsynth]" <CZsynth@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

     Last one is true :-)
They say PB and MW are common to both parts.
Ooops.
BUT... Read the page 49!
There's written that Bend Range can be set independently for each part when Key Split setting is written in the memory (as Operation Data).
Then it would be enough to set for the Lower part Bend Range = 0, and that sound will not react to PB even when PB data goes to both Upper and Lower parts.
Try to experiment with it.
Daniel Forro


On Sep 26, 2016, at 4:18 PM, Daniel Forró danforcz@... [CZsynth] wrote:



On page 45 of Owner's Manual is written it is possible to set independent setting. So if you can't do it, there are these possibilities:
- manual is wrong
- you do something wrong
- your instrument is wrong
- I'm totally wrong.
Just follow the manual and set it as you need.
Daniel Forro

On Sep 25, 2016, at 9:32 PM, Brendan Cooney cooneypiano@... [CZsynth] wrote:

Hey all. I thought I had read and understood all the parameters of the CZ1, but after purchasing a CZ1 I've discovered that I cannot assign pitch bend to just the RH when in Key Split. Is there any workaround or trick anyone might know of for having the pitch bend only effect the RH? I was hoping to trigger pads and drones with the LH, hold them with the pedal, and then play leads with the RH using the pitch bend with LH.
Perhaps the solution is to not speed read manuals before buying synths.

Remember the cpu speeds of computers in 1985... it was unthinkable back then... midi is 8bit. Only so much data can go through it.


Modern daw/usb can do much more but our casios were from long time ago. So between limited bandwidth for midi slow CPUs (single digit megahertz!) and even a little designed obsolescence would likely drive the units final design.


Thanks,
Caleb Garner
www.part12studios.com
615-818-8483
"If there are typos, it is Siri's falt"

> On Sep 25, 2016, at 11:26 AM, charles copp charles.copp@sympatico.ca [CZsynth] <CZsynth@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> too bad manufactureers  didn't incorporate every possible combination while engineering
>
> be cool to have individual control over each note in each midi channel
>
> being able to apply cc and rpn to each note along with velocity  volume and modulation and sustain
>
>
>
> oh well the future is yours ,,take your ideal and patent it
>
> good discovery , even 20 x years after the things been released ....no one uses these items to their full capacity .......you seem to   have fun
>
>
>
>> ---------- Original Message ----------
>> From: "Brendan Cooney cooneypiano@... [CZsynth]" <CZsynth@yahoogroups.com>
>> Date: September 25, 2016 at 8:32 AM
>>
>> Hey all. I thought I had read and understood all the parameters of the CZ1, but after purchasing a CZ1 I've discovered that I cannot assign pitch bend to just the RH when in Key Split. Is there any workaround or trick anyone might know of for having the pitch bend only effect the RH? I was hoping to trigger pads and drones with the LH, hold them with the pedal, and then play leads with the RH using the pitch bend with LH.
>>
>> Perhaps the solution is to not speed read manuals before buying synths.
>>
>
>
>
>

> It's not even about the old computers being slow or the bit width.

This is on the money; the previous comment was not accurate. In fact, we may have had this discussion (or one close to it) 3-4 years ago.

>having said that, I think there are ideas out there for successors to MIDI, but I haven't been following any of their progress.

From what I have seen there have been changes all along since 1985 still using MIDI. Twenty years ago or so some people were saying MIDI was dead because audio processing became accessible. However, from what I have seen MIDI has continued to grow/change/etc. and is still useful for those people who know how to use it for what they want. Yes, there are still deficiencies, but there will always be issues with any technology.

A few years ago, a VZ user even wrote a web-based/browser VZ editor. That could not be done in 1985. And last I checked, it worked on modern computers!!!!!! (Although with changes web browsers have been known to change web-based code.

I am glad you acknowledged you haven't kept up. That speaks well of you and your input (in my opinion).

On Oct 12, 2016, at 11:35 PM, smw-mail@... [CZsynth] wrote:
> > MIDI as a protocol is required to run at 31.25 kbps,
>
> While older synths with 5-pin din connectors for midi inter- 
> connectivity operate (and related gear/software) used 31.25 kbps, it  
> is not required.

??? Of course it is required.

There were some attempts to use higher speed but it was not generally  
accepted.

>
> >a rather puny data rate - which can barely even handle the load of  
> polyphonic aftertouch, never mind polyphonic everything-else at the  
> same time.
>
> Possibly, but moreover the problem is with OS overhead, inefficient  
> drivers, and try-to-do-everything-at-once-including-audio-and-video  
> software.  If you take at Commodore 64 and write efficient asm code  
> to do midi I/O, my guess is 31.25 kbps will work. But don't do that,  
> get a modern microprocessor (even a relatively slow AVR-base arduino  
> compared to new) and write midi I/O code at anywhere from 31.25 kpbs  
> to speeds many times that.

Maybe, but in the end you have to go down to MIDI speed, if you want  
to talk with common MIDI instruments.

But many modern instruments started to use USB for MIDI transfer.  
Yamaha has their modification of FireWire protocol called m-Lan for  
audio and MIDI communication.

> >having said that, I think there are ideas out there for successors  
> to MIDI, but I haven't been following any of their progress.
> From what I have seen there have been changes all along since 1985  
> still using MIDI.
>

Yes, lot of changes, useful additions and improvements. Despite basic  
limited features it's still usable when used cleverly.
> Twenty years ago or so some people were saying MIDI was dead because  
> audio processing became accessible.
>
Sorry, but I don't see any connection between audio and MIDI. Two  
totally different attitudes...
> However, from what I have seen MIDI has continued to grow/change/ 
> etc. and is still useful for those people who know how to use it for  
> what they want.  Yes, there are still deficiencies, but there will  
> always be issues with any technology.
>
My words :-)

Daniel Forro

I think it all has to do with the instruments capability to handle data �and not midi speed......

31 thousand bytes per second��� fast !

MIDI is a hardware transport independent protocol 1

Both OSC and MIDI are message protocols that are hardware transport independent. There is a transport specification (MIDI DIN) part of the MIDI 1.0 Specification, but that transport it is not required for using the MIDI protocol. It is quite common for MIDI protocol to be carried on transports such as USB, FireWire, and Ethernet.

MIDI is as Fast as OSC 2

When carried on Ethernet, MIDI bits move at the same data rate as OSC bits carried on Ethernet, because the data rate is a factor of the transport, not the protocol. In terms of throughput, MIDI can actually have better throughput than OSC because it takes fewer bytes to make common MIDI messages than it does to make comparable OSC messages.

On Oct 14, 2016, at 10:18 AM, smw-mail@... [CZsynth] wrote:

> Let's make a distinction between the MIDI hardware transport and the  
> MIDI protocol.  The 5-pin MIDI hardware transport as defined in MIDI  
> Spec 1.0 used 31.25 kbps.  If you have something that only has a 5- 
> pin MIDI hardware transport, I agree you are limited to 31.25 kbps  
> unless you can make some mods to your gear.

Some SCI instruments could change MIDI speed for the purpose of Sample  
Dump using standard MIDI hardware. Values could be:
62.5 kbps
83.3 kbps
125 kbps

For example Prophet 2000 could go to 83.3 kbps.

Concerning higher transfer speed, it's worth to mention here that  
Yamaha (and probably also Roland and Korg, I'm not sure now) use for  
their serial MIDI communication called TO HOST higher speed in PC-2  
setting (RS232C) - 38400 kbps.

Opcode serial MIDI interfaces Studio Series allow to select higher  
speed communication - 8x MIDI speed, that is 250 kbps (used with Mac,  
OMS, RS422).


> However, it's probably not worth anyone's time to do such mods on  
> gear when you can get a microprocessor and build something that can  
> use the midi protocol at higher speeds.
>
> Let's say I have an arduino. Let's say I want to code it so I have  
> sliders, knobs, and buttons and can trigger sequences, process midi  
> data, etc. If I want to have that control softsynths, I am not  
> limited to 31.25 kbps.
>
> The last time I wrote such a test program I used 115200 baud, 8 data  
> bits, no parity, and 1 stop bit. Since the program stays in the  
> arduino until I upload a hew "sketch," its still there. So when I  
> just plugged it into my usb port and booted the Hairless MIDI Serial  
> <-> Serial Bridge, it started cranking out midi data (based on the  
> test program I wrote) to my PC at 115200 baud. I could go up to  
> 256000 baud.
>
> I know I can pump that into a softsynth. Let's see what happens if I  
> route it to a usb interface (2-in 4-out emagic mt4). Well, it seems  
> to be pumping data out the 5-pin din connectors to some sound  
> modules at exactly same performance tempo that the softsynth would  
> be playing at.
>
> In short, at this very moment the arduino is pumping midi data out  
> at 115200 baud and it is playing on an old Roland M-GS64 via a  
> "modern computer." I am pretty sure this is the same program I  
> tested on the CZ-5000 several years ago.
>
> INTERNAL DIALOG (31.25 baud):
> So now that I proved it to myself, do I really need to share this  
> with all the naysayers in the CZ forum?
>
> Why should I set myself up for abuse?  I really don't need to prove  
> it to anyone else.  So I suppose the only reason to post it is in  
> case others might want to try it.  But is that worth risking abuse?   
> You know no one in the CZ group will appreciate this.  Well, maybe  
> it will inspire one person. If so, it's worth it for that one person  
> because maybe that one person will be a leader or will be inspired  
> to ignore all the naysayers.


Yes, that all is true for sure, but why to mention it here? When we  
want to connect standard MIDI instruments, we need some kind of  
interface between such high speed system and MIDI, and it's necessary  
to slow down transfer to standard MIDI speed. From this point of view  
higher transfer speed has no advantage.

But it can help when we use different hardware for MIDI data transfer,  
or it had sense for data transfer between Mac and Opcode multiport  
MIDI interface like Studio 5LX (with its 15 MIDI ports = 240 MIDI  
channels). All those channels were sent through one serial cable.

Daniel Forro

On Oct 14, 2016, at 6:42 PM, smw-mail@... [CZsynth] wrote:

> YOU WROTE:
> Yes, that all is true for sure, but why to mention it here?
>
> I NOW REPLY:
> Several reasons:
> (1) There are some posters here who say things about MIDI and/or the  
> Casio CZ/VZ that are not true and some unsuspecting people might  
> come along and believe them.
> (2) Because maybe there is (or will be) one person who will read it  
> and be inspired to pursue it.
> (3) Because maybe there is (or will be) one person who will read it  
> and be inspired to ignore naysayers, etc.
>
> Think about what you wrote.  There is absolutely no good reason for  
> you to have challenged what I posted with ". . . but why mention it  
> here?"  The answer should be obvious from the posts themselves and/ 
> or from the context of the previous discussions.

Anybody has right to write whatever they want and feel as a proper  
part of continuing academic discussion. Me as well as you.

But anyway your "maybe" reason for mentioning all this are rather  
enigmatic to me. If I remember well, nobody mentioned such things  
before, or argued with you about facts you have written...

> In one of your posts you broke apart my comments and placed replies  
> in the middle of thoughts.

Is this prohibited in discussions?

> In one of them, you commented on a statement that in my original was  
> followed immediately by "However . . . ." In the English language  
> "however" connects ideas in a very specific way.  By breaking up my  
> comment that way, you in essence took my comments out of context for  
> the sole purpose of putting in your comment.

Thanks for the English lesson, it's not my native tongue, so I do  
mistakes.

> I light of this, I repeat: Think about what you wrote: ". . . but  
> why mention it here?" There is no reason for you to have said  
> challenge me for having clarified some issues.

Yes, OK. I don't see any problem, as well as need for such deep  
grammatical or phraseological analyses. This yahoo group is about CZ  
synthesizers.

>
> OHHHHH. I get it!  Maybe because I contradicted you and you couldn't  
> accept that.

Maybe.

> I said 31.25 kbaud was not required for MIDI. I said it wasn't.  I  
> showed how it wasn't,

Yes, I agreed and added some examples when MIDI used higher transfer  
speed. Re-read please what I wrote.

> so while you acknowledged what I said was "true for sure," you had  
> to challenge me with ". . . but why mention it here?"
>
> But wait, there are other reasons I mentioned it here.  If you dare,  
> re-read what I wrote about my 1980s experiments with channelizing  
> midi data. I took a CZ-5000, ran the MIDI data through a Commodore  
> 64 channelized it (i.e., processed the midi data) and sent it back  
> to the CZ-5000.
>
> While I mentioned that in combination with how midi technology has  
> been updated in the past year or so, it also relates directly to  
> what people could do with midi data coming from their CZs.
>
> Finally, there is no need for anyone to commend on this. It is just  
> an explanation of what I consider to be a useless challenge:". . .  
> but why mention it here?" To reiterate: it should have been obvious  
> from the posts themselves and/or from the context of previous  
> discussions.

Look, I"m simple man, and don"t understand all this linguistic stuff  
you showed here. If you wanted to show how stupid I am, you managed.  
Congratulations.

> Addendum:
> I fully recognize that some people will not understand any of what I  
> have written here or in the previous posts.  That's fine. My advice  
> is to just ignore it and move on to something else. There is nothing  
> more to be said that will add anything useful to this discussion.

Very good ideas in above four sentences.
>
> But wait.
>
> There is one more thing: People who said "MIDI is dead" a few years  
> back because they were of the opinion that audio somehow supercede  
> midi and that midi had no more usefulness were just plain wrong.  
> History has proved that not me. (Well, I have proved it, too; but  
> more importantly history has proved it wrong.

Nobody here mentioned anything like this if I remember well. So why  
you mention it here?

But OK. Just FYI:

I'm the last person who would underestimate MIDI or complain about it.  
I use mainly MIDI, having connected more multiport MIDI interfaces (in  
total over 900 MIDI channels) and around 60 MIDI hardware instruments  
in my studio. Besides I have published two books on MIDI (nothing to  
say about other publications and hundreds of expert articles in music  
magazines), and my old nickname in my country was Dr. MIDI.
>
> And in case its not obvious, Daniel, you totally missed the context  
> of my mentioning that point previously--again, evidently for the  
> sole purpose of challenging me with your midi and audio are two  
> different things remark.
>
> Congratulations.

Are they not? I didn't know.

And now I have to look in my biggest English dictionary to study more  
what "challenging me" means exactly.

And let's stop this fruitless discussion. Everybody has sometimes hard  
day.

Best regards.

Daniel Forro

Today I couldn't resist seeing Casio Digital Guitar DG20 for 20 USD in  
the nearest recycle shop. So my DG7 doesn't need to feel lonely now :-)

Everything works well, just one small part is missing:

plastic sensor cover

I think the same is on DG10.

If by chance somebody has it and can sell, let me know please.

Thanks in advance!

Daniel Forro

Well done on that price!

Sent from my iPhone

On 21 Oct 2016, at 13:28, "Daniel Forró danforcz@... [CZsynth]" <CZsynth@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> That's what I thought also.  In these shops it's possible to find often interesting gear for unbelievable prices. The only problem can be a state of some products due Japanese humidity and high temperatures in summer - metal parts can be rusty and it could have effect also on some components or their life cycle. But usually instruments are well maintained and in good optical shape. Sometimes they look like they were closed for 20 years somewhere and not used.
> 
> I just googled some other offers on E-bay and some Japanese guys ask for DG20 in much worse state (there are pictures) than this one minimally 150 USD. So it was a bargain. I live is small city, so prices are lower, and international sellers also try to pump prices up. But in big cities there's better choice, more gear.
> 
> Daniel Forro
>  
> 
> On Oct 21, 2016, at 9:17 PM, '350ypvs@...' 350ypvs@... [CZsynth] wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Wow! Amazing find for an amazing price!
>> 
>> On 21 October 2016 at 13:08, Daniel Forró danforcz@... [CZsynth] <CZsynth@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>> Today I couldn't resist seeing Casio Digital Guitar DG20 for 20 USD in 
>>> the nearest recycle shop. So my DG7 doesn't need to feel lonely now :-)
>>> 
>>> Everything works well, just one small part is missing:
>>> 
>>> plastic sensor cover
>>> 
>>> I think the same is on DG10.
>>> 
>>> If by chance somebody has it and can sell, let me know please.
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance!
>>> 
>>> Daniel Forro
> 
>

Missing part according to Service Manual is:

Sensor cup B
Code ID 6913 2450
Part M32807-1

Same for DG10 and DG20.

Daniel Forro

That's the one part missing from my donor dg,so unfortunately can't help.


Sent from my iPhone

On 21 Oct 2016, at 15:18, "Daniel Forró danforcz@... [CZsynth]" <CZsynth@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> Missing part according to Service Manual is:
> 
> Sensor cup B
> Code ID 6913 2450
> Part M32807-1
> 
> Same for DG10 and DG20.
> 
> Daniel Forro
>

getting a hold of a manual might be the first serious� motion to understanding the cz

if there is something still looming after reading it� try us again

google cz manual ....?

On Oct 22, 2016, at 1:09 AM, 'T. A.' dzsimik@... [CZsynth]  
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> this my first post here, I'm a newbie to the CZ world, picked up a  
> CZ5000 for almost nothing.

Congratulations and welcome on the board!

> To cut it short, she was in kind of a rough shape but now she's  
> clean and running, sounds (plus weighs) like a ton of fun.
> My question is, what should I do next? I may change the LCD screen  
> to a backlit one in the future,

Good idea.

> but first I need advice on the batteries.
> Which are the best?

I would use alcaline.

> How long they usually last?

According to the manual - 1 year (see page 57).

> Does the machine sends a signal (I guess not) when they need to be  
> changed?

I think not.

> Is there a way to permanently change the main MIDI channel to  
> another number?

Change yes but probably not permanently. It"s not mentioned in the  
manual and other books about CZ.

Just check it yourself - change the setting, switch off the instrument  
and check the setting after switching on. Probably it will return to  
default global settings.

> Any help is welcome!
> Attila

Best regards.

Daniel Forro

my understanding (i'm a CZ-1000 owner) is that the D batteries ARE the 
backup.  when you take them out they say you have 10 minutes to change 
them before the patches are lost from memory..




Daniel Forr� danforcz@... [CZsynth] wrote:

>
>
> On Nov 1, 2016, at 11:21 AM, Jos� �ngel Morente msxjam@... 
> <mailto:msxjam@...> [CZsynth] wrote:
>>
>> a) Get a good delay/reverb unit if you don't have one.
>
> Good idea.
>
>> b) Use the magical built in chorus.
>
> Little bit noisy.
>
>> c) Change the battery as soon as possible. I don't know about the 
>> CZ5000 but it's probably similar to the CZ-1 (it uses a standard 
>> CR2032 or CR2025, I think in a standard holder).
>
> I suppose he asked about standard backup batteries, only CZ1 has 
> lithium backup battery inside, CZ101, 1000, 3000 and 5000 haven't it, 
> see Service manuals.
>
> Daniel Forro
>
>

Can't say for the 5000 but the 101 flashes the power LED when batteries are low power.

Sent from my iPhone

On 22 Oct 2016, at 09:21, "'T. A.' dzsimik@... [CZsynth]" <CZsynth@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> this my first post here, I'm a newbie to the CZ world, picked up a CZ5000 for almost nothing.
> To cut it short, she was in kind of a rough shape but now she's clean and running, sounds (plus weighs) like a ton of fun.
> My question is, what should I do next? I may change the LCD screen to a backlit one in the future, but first I need advice on the batteries.
> Which are the best? How long they usually last? Does the machine sends a signal (I guess not) when they need to be changed? Is there a way to permanently change the main MIDI channel to another number?
> Any help is welcome!
> Attila
> 
>

On Nov 4, 2016, at 5:52 AM, smw-mail@... [CZsynth] wrote:

> >> My question is, what should I do next? I may change the LCD  
> screen to a backlit one in the future, but first I need advice on  
> the batteries.Which are the best? How long they usually last?
> (1) I am pretty sure there is a pdf scan of the CZ5000 service  
> manual floating around the internet; not sure if it's here, in the  
> CZ/FZ overflow group, or somewhere else.  That might be useful to  
> you. You might want to compare that with the CZ-1 service manual  
> (also around on the internet somewhere).  The CZ-1 has a lighted LCD.

CZ1:

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~damont/CasioCZ1Servicemanual.pdf

CZ5000:

https://www.manualslib.com/download/830267/Casio-Cz-5000.html


> (2) The CZ-5000 uses 3 AA batteries. I am not sure how long they  
> will last to preserve the user patches. In my experience with other  
> things, rechargeable AA batteries continuously lose power (and  
> aren't 1.5 v to begin with) and would probably not work well in the  
> CZ-5000. (Just a guess.) I am also guessing that long-lasting  
> alkaline might last longer than old-fashioned heavy-duty batteries,  
> but you'd have to run some comparative tests.

This was answered with facts written in the manual, not guesses :-).  
They are standard batteries (or alkaline), no need to use  
rechargeable, they will not be recharged in the machine. They will  
last around one year.

> (2) You know it's time to change your batteries when you power up  
> and your user patches are gone or are scrambled.  You can get some  
> really wild patches because the user memory (in my experience) gets  
> filled with parameters that you just can't duplicate from the panel  
> (nor would you want to in most cases).

Of course this can happen but then it's too late to change batteries.
For all cases it's good to have a data back-up on RAM cartridge, tape  
or in SysEx format.
>
> >>Is there a way to permanently change the main MIDI channel to  
> another number?
> (1) Hey, this is from 1985; consider yourself lucky that it has (a)  
> 8-note (2 line) polyphony / 16-note (1 line) polyphony from the  
> keyboard (i.e., not via midi), (b) multi-timbral capability, and (c)  
> a crude, but usable real-time/step-mode sequencer.
> (2) Probably not "out of the box," but you might be able to build a  
> circuit to do this, if for some reason you didn't want to do it  
> manually.

This was answered with facts written in the manual, but I just don't  
know it the change is permanent and will occur after the next  
switching on the instrument. So I have recommended to test it. Until  
now no reaction from the person who asked our advice. Maybe he didn't  
survive first week of heavy work with his CZ, when he forgot to drink  
and eat :-)

> Finally, I have to offer a caveat--all of the above is my own  
> opinion, freely offered to a person who I believe has asked some  
> good questions relevant to a recent acquisition.  I have answered to  
> the best of my ability in hopes that it would be helpful to that  
> individial.

It's nice of you, it is just questionable if opinions and guesses  
concerning the facts are really helpful, as they can be wrong and  
bring more confusion. Facts are facts.

> I am not really interested in arguing semantics (e.g., how what was  
> called polyphony for many years has in recent years been called  
> paraphony--i.e., not really polyphony, but something short of "true"  
> polyphony--by some),

I've never heard about such thing that somebody tries to use a term  
paraphony for polyphony. If yes, then it's totally wrong and I suppose  
we don't need to argue about it.
Despite nobody asked you to bring such example, and despite paraphony  
has nothing to do with CZ synths, or even with polyphony, maybe it's  
the best time to explain it exactly as it's a part of synthesizer  
history.

AFAIK a term "paraphony" was used by Roland on some of their  
multiphonic analog/digital synths in the end of 70's. Despite the  
instrument has more voices of polyphony thanks to multiple  
oscillators, there is only one filter with associated envelope  
generator for all of them. That means that filter envelope, when  
triggered again from the keyboard, restarts it's cycle from the  
beginning and had the same effect on all voices, even on those who  
were sounding in that moment. Instrument plays polyphonically but  
behavior of the filter is monophonic.
The same compromise architecture was used by other instruments as well  
- Moog Polymoog, Korg (even Poly/EX-800, which is interesting because  
older PS6 Polysix had independent filters and EG's for all six  
voices), and few others.

Later instruments  had fully implemented architecture for each voice  
unit (oscillator - filter - amplifier, and associated envelope  
generators) so all timbre and level changes in time are fully  
independent and start with each press of the key, and just for that  
voice. Of course they all have the same setting.

Casio PD and iPD synthesis uses direct transient changes of timbre in  
the oscillator (phase distortion is a kind of waveshaping), so there  
are no filters, and no paraphony.
Similarly other instruments based on phase modulation (like Yamaha FM,  
Elka, Korg FM, Boehm, Wersi... to name some) have no filters, so they  
are not paraphonic.

> the philosophy of using the CZ-5000 v. the CZ-1 (e.g., how the  
> sounds of the CZ-1 are different, superior, inferior to, etc. the  
> CZ-5000),

That's a pity - IMHO the main reason for the existence of any forum is  
a discussion about opinions, not only writing about the facts which  
can be found in the manual :-) Correcting mistakes is also important.

> various other side issues (e.g., why I brought up the two previous  
> examples when the questioner didn't ask about them), etc.

Maybe you had some reason, so why you now refuse further discussion on  
this?
>
> As one member of this forum recently pointed out, anyone can post  
> anything here [as long as it's OK by the Yahoo's ToS and the group's  
> owner doesn't have an objection]. That being said, I would encourage  
> anyone who has experiences with the CZ-5000 that differ from my  
> experiences to write them up as your experiences without referring  
> to what I reported as my experiences.

That's good idea to discuss about experiences, they are similar to  
opinions.

Which doesn't change the fact that facts are facts ;-)

Daniel Forro

My 1000 loses memory with no D types.I'm pretty sure the 101 is non-volatile as I had the Ds out last night and no presets were lost.
Not having any 5000 experience,my comments are based on 101/1000.


Sent from my iPhone

On 1 Nov 2016, at 03:21, "Caleb Garner caleb.garner@... [CZsynth]" <CZsynth@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> my understanding (i'm a CZ-1000 owner) is that the D batteries ARE the backup.  when you take them out they say you have 10 minutes to change them before the patches are lost from memory..
> 
> 
> Daniel Forró danforcz@... [CZsynth] wrote:
> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 1, 2016, at 11:21 AM, José Ángel Morente msxjam@...m [CZsynth] wrote:
>>> 
>>> a) Get a good delay/reverb unit if you don't have one.
>> 
>> Good idea.
>> 
>>> b) Use the magical built in chorus.
>> 
>> Little bit noisy.
>> 
>>> c) Change the battery as soon as possible. I don't know about the CZ5000 but it's probably similar to the CZ-1 (it uses a standard CR2032 or CR2025, I think in a standard holder).
>> 
>> I suppose he asked about standard backup batteries, only CZ1 has lithium backup battery inside, CZ101, 1000, 3000 and 5000 haven't it, see Service manuals.
>> 
>> Daniel Forro
> 
>

With very high probability there will be a problem to find something  
like electric outlet...

Daniel Forro

On Nov 13, 2016, at 4:36 AM, ygroups@... [CZsynth] wrote:
>
> The CZ is still one of my favorite machines, and will sure go with  
> me to an uninhabited island ;)
>
> Warm greetings, Gerd

Today I have found a nice looking CZ1000 like a new one in the nearest  
recycle shop, in junk department  proclaimed as non working. Price was  
4.6 USD, so I couldn't leave it there.

Using proper adapter at home I could make it work on the first switch  
on. I'm quite sure that instruments have a soul and can feel they are  
in good hands. So far so good.

Everything is OK, but power connector board is probably somehow  
moving, or there's a cold contact on the connector itself - when I  
move with it, sometimes instrument switches off. Opening the  
instrument will probably take more time than the repair :-)

There's a small coin battery in the holder inside the battery  
compartment, it looks like previous owner did this modification to  
keep data when power off. I don't like similar amateur looking mods so  
will think twice if to leave it there or remove.

The next step will be replacing the display for modern one with LED  
backlight as I did with my CZ3000.

Merry Christmas!

Daniel Forro

Great find!  What displays are compatible with the CZ1000?  I have contemplated finding a backlit display for mine, but I'm not aware of any. I saw a video of someone who is doing the CZ1000 battery mod and his had a blue backlit display which looks really awesome.


Thanks,
Caleb Garner
www.part12studios.com
615-818-8483
"If there are typos, it is Siri's falt"

> On Dec 23, 2016, at 2:23 AM, Daniel Forró danforcz@... [CZsynth] <CZsynth@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> Today I have found a nice looking CZ1000 like a new one in the nearest
> recycle shop, in junk department proclaimed as non working. Price was
> 4.6 USD, so I couldn't leave it there.
>
> Using proper adapter at home I could make it work on the first switch
> on. I'm quite sure that instruments have a soul and can feel they are
> in good hands. So far so good.
>
> Everything is OK, but power connector board is probably somehow
> moving, or there's a cold contact on the connector itself - when I
> move with it, sometimes instrument switches off. Opening the
> instrument will probably take more time than the repair :-)
>
> There's a small coin battery in the holder inside the battery
> compartment, it looks like previous owner did this modification to
> keep data when power off. I don't like similar amateur looking mods so
> will think twice if to leave it there or remove.
>
> The next step will be replacing the display for modern one with LED
> backlight as I did with my CZ3000.
>
> Merry Christmas!
>
> Daniel Forro
>

blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px #715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important; background-color:white !important; } Very interesting! Could you post pics of your adventures as you try to "revive" this vintage keyboard?

RegardsMichael


On Friday, December 23, 2016, 3:23 PM, Daniel Forró danforcz@... [CZsynth] <CZsynth@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

    
Today I have found a nice looking CZ1000 like a new one in the nearest 
recycle shop, in junk department proclaimed as non working. Price was 
4.6 USD, so I couldn't leave it there.

Using proper adapter at home I could make it work on the first switch 
on. I'm quite sure that instruments have a soul and can feel they are 
in good hands. So far so good.

Everything is OK, but power connector board is probably somehow 
moving, or there's a cold contact on the connector itself - when I 
move with it, sometimes instrument switches off. Opening the 
instrument will probably take more time than the repair :-)

There's a small coin battery in the holder inside the battery 
compartment, it looks like previous owner did this modification to 
keep data when power off. I don't like similar amateur looking mods so 
will think twice if to leave it there or remove.

The next step will be replacing the display for modern one with LED 
backlight as I did with my CZ3000.

Merry Christmas!

Daniel Forro

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Today I have finished the repair of CZ1000:
- cleaning
- cleaning some metal parts from the rust
- repair of cartridge cover - new spring made from the guitar string
- cleaning cartridge slot contacts
- resolder power connector
- replacement of display
- setting display contrast
- adding screw washers to keep better the screening shield on the  
bottom  　　　　

I have used New Haven display NHD-0216BZ-FL-YBW ordered at Mouser, it  
came after four days!
As it has limiting resistor on the board, it's enough to connect pin  
16 to pin 1 and pin 15 to pin 2.
Contrast can be set with VR4 on the main board near display connector.
Display is thicker but there was no problem to use original screws and  
tighten them as much as possible.

So far so good.

Happy New Year to everybody!

Daniel Forro 　


On Dec 24, 2016, at 12:48 AM, Daniel Forró danforcz@...  
[CZsynth] wrote:

>
>
> OK, I will take some pictures.
>
> Today I have opened it and start to disassembly it. It's not so easy  
> as boards are connected by flat plastic cables which are soldered on  
> both ends... grrrrr... so unpleasant and service unfriendly. Similar  
> way as on cheap Casio portables from that times - I did cleaning and  
> repairs of my MT65... at least they have used there flat cables with  
> relatively thick wires inside. Here it's much more fragile, just  
> thin foil and inside metal traces. I have to be very careful not to  
> break some. If so, better to desolder it and use standard wires. The  
> reason for this is they wanted to save money...that's why there are  
> no multi pin connectors.
>
> Inside I have found some rusty screws, and also some pieces of rust  
> on some metal parts. Will clean everything after full disassembly.
>
> I couldn't find any problem with power connector, there's no cold  
> solder, no cracks... Probably just the connector needs good cleaning  
> inside, and adjusting the contact. High humidity here in Japan  
> during summer is guilty for the oxidation...
>
> Also contacts for cartridge had green color from oxidation, I had  
> cleaned it very carefully with fine sand paper.
>
> Another problem was with cover of cartridge slot. It was fixed  
> inside with transparent sticker tape, and the reason was that spring  
> which should keep it closed was broken. Evidently previous owner  
> didn't use cartridge. So I made new spring from guitar string, works  
> perfectly now. I have RAM-3 cartridge, originally for my CZ3000 but  
> there it can be used only for data backup. CZ1000 offers direct  
> access to 16 programs so I will use it now with this instrument,  
> it's more flexible. Still I have another rare cartridge which offers  
> 4 banks.
>
> Keyboard is quite OK, it doesn't need cleaning.
>
> So now I have to order LED display and replace the original one. It  
> will take some time...
>
> Daniel Forro
>
>
> On Dec 24, 2016, at 12:26 AM, Michael Lim raffles1968@...  
> [CZsynth] wrote:
>>
>> Very interesting! Could you post pics of your adventures as you try  
>> to "revive" this vintage keyboard?
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael
>>
>> On Friday, December 23, 2016, 3:23 PM, Daniel Forró danforcz@yahoo.co 
>> m [CZsynth] <CZsynth@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> Today I have found a nice looking CZ1000 like a new one in the  
>> nearest
>> recycle shop, in junk department proclaimed as non working. Price was
>> 4.6 USD, so I couldn't leave it there.
>>
>> Using proper adapter at home I could make it work on the first switch
>> on. I'm quite sure that instruments have a soul and can feel they are
>> in good hands. So far so good.
>>
>> Everything is OK, but power connector board is probably somehow
>> moving, or there's a cold contact on the connector itself - when I
>> move with it, sometimes instrument switches off. Opening the
>> instrument will probably take more time than the repair :-)
>>
>> There's a small coin battery in the holder inside the battery
>> compartment, it looks like previous owner did this modification to
>> keep data when power off. I don't like similar amateur looking mods  
>> so
>> will think twice if to leave it there or remove.
>>
>> The next step will be replacing the display for modern one with LED
>> backlight as I did with my CZ3000.
>>
>> Merry Christmas!
>>
>> Daniel Forro
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

Hi, Caleb,

yes, this is LED backlit display, yellow-green. You can find also  
other colors if you prefer.

Power for backlit (pins 15 and 16) goes from pins 1 and 2. Solder  
small wire bridges isolated with plastic after soldering the cables.  
See my description. Check if your display doesn't need limiting  
resistor - some have it on the board and don't need it.

It's not quite easy to get to the display, you have to remove boards,  
and be very careful with flat transparent plastic cables.
Then just disconnect display cable from the main board, and unscrew  
some screws keeping plastic sheet and display. Work slowly, use small  
cups or boxes for groups of screws and add description where they came  
from, and take a lot of pictures. It will help you during reassembling.

Yes, you have to desolder cable from the old display and solder it to  
the new display. Solder shortly, display is heat sensitive. Old cables  
have different colors, you can write down the order, or do it one by  
one.

Don't forget to remove protective foil from the glass before mounting  
the display, and clean panel inside the instrument as well as display  
glass just before putting it inside (vacuum cleaning is good idea).  
There's nothing more infuriating than to find some small dirtiness or  
dust on the screen when finishing the job and closing everything.

Good luck!

Daniel Forro

On Dec 31, 2016, at 10:43 PM, Caleb Garner caleb.garner@...  
[CZsynth] wrote:

>
>
> so will this display give you a backlight?  if so how do you get  
> power to it since the original was not intended to be back lit.   
> Awesome job bringing it back.  How involved is the lcd display to  
> swap?  soldering involved?
>
> Thanks!
> Caleb
>
> On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 2:27 AM, Daniel Forró danforcz@...  
> [CZsynth] <CZsynth@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> Today I have finished the repair of CZ1000:
> - cleaning
> - cleaning some metal parts from the rust
> - repair of cartridge cover - new spring made from the guitar string
> - cleaning cartridge slot contacts
> - resolder power connector
> - replacement of display
> - setting display contrast
> - adding screw washers to keep better the screening shield on the  
> bottom  　　　　
>
> I have used New Haven display NHD-0216BZ-FL-YBW ordered at Mouser,  
> it came after four days!
> As it has limiting resistor on the board, it's enough to connect pin  
> 16 to pin 1 and pin 15 to pin 2.
> Contrast can be set with VR4 on the main board near display connector.
> Display is thicker but there was no problem to use original screws  
> and tighten them as much as possible.
>
> So far so good.
>
> Happy New Year to everybody!
>
> Daniel Forro 　
>
>
> On Dec 24, 2016, at 12:48 AM, Daniel Forró danforcz@...  
> [CZsynth] wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> OK, I will take some pictures.
>>
>> Today I have opened it and start to disassembly it. It's not so  
>> easy as boards are connected by flat plastic cables which are  
>> soldered on both ends... grrrrr... so unpleasant and service  
>> unfriendly. Similar way as on cheap Casio portables from that times  
>> - I did cleaning and repairs of my MT65... at least they have used  
>> there flat cables with relatively thick wires inside. Here it's  
>> much more fragile, just thin foil and inside metal traces. I have  
>> to be very careful not to break some. If so, better to desolder it  
>> and use standard wires. The reason for this is they wanted to save  
>> money...that's why there are no multi pin connectors.
>>
>> Inside I have found some rusty screws, and also some pieces of rust  
>> on some metal parts. Will clean everything after full disassembly.
>>
>> I couldn't find any problem with power connector, there's no cold  
>> solder, no cracks... Probably just the connector needs good  
>> cleaning inside, and adjusting the contact. High humidity here in  
>> Japan during summer is guilty for the oxidation...
>>
>> Also contacts for cartridge had green color from oxidation, I had  
>> cleaned it very carefully with fine sand paper.
>>
>> Another problem was with cover of cartridge slot. It was fixed  
>> inside with transparent sticker tape, and the reason was that  
>> spring which should keep it closed was broken. Evidently previous  
>> owner didn't use cartridge. So I made new spring from guitar  
>> string, works perfectly now. I have RAM-3 cartridge, originally for  
>> my CZ3000 but there it can be used only for data backup. CZ1000  
>> offers direct access to 16 programs so I will use it now with this  
>> instrument, it's more flexible. Still I have another rare cartridge  
>> which offers 4 banks.
>>
>> Keyboard is quite OK, it doesn't need cleaning.
>>
>> So now I have to order LED display and replace the original one. It  
>> will take some time...
>>
>> Daniel Forro
>>
>>
>> On Dec 24, 2016, at 12:26 AM, Michael Lim raffles1968@...  
>> [CZsynth] wrote:
>>>
>>> Very interesting! Could you post pics of your adventures as you  
>>> try to "revive" this vintage keyboard?
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> On Friday, December 23, 2016, 3:23 PM, Daniel Forró danforcz@... 
>>> m [CZsynth] <CZsynth@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Today I have found a nice looking CZ1000 like a new one in the  
>>> nearest
>>> recycle shop, in junk department proclaimed as non working. Price  
>>> was
>>> 4.6 USD, so I couldn't leave it there.
>>>
>>> Using proper adapter at home I could make it work on the first  
>>> switch
>>> on. I'm quite sure that instruments have a soul and can feel they  
>>> are
>>> in good hands. So far so good.
>>>
>>> Everything is OK, but power connector board is probably somehow
>>> moving, or there's a cold contact on the connector itself - when I
>>> move with it, sometimes instrument switches off. Opening the
>>> instrument will probably take more time than the repair :-)
>>>
>>> There's a small coin battery in the holder inside the battery
>>> compartment, it looks like previous owner did this modification to
>>> keep data when power off. I don't like similar amateur looking  
>>> mods so
>>> will think twice if to leave it there or remove.
>>>
>>> The next step will be replacing the display for modern one with LED
>>> backlight as I did with my CZ3000.
>>>
>>> Merry Christmas!
>>>
>>> Daniel Forro
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>