Dave Smith Instruments SYNTHESIZERS

Okay,  I've made some headway in getting this Edirol to work as a
remote controller with the Evovler.  You can fully program every key,
slider, knob, and button, to transmit sysex that you specify.

It took me a couple hours of frustation at first why this programming
wasn't working, but then it finally dawned on me that the Parameter
values that DAVE has in the manual are in BINARY!!!!  

ERG!  I can't believe how long it took me to realize.  You'd think
having taken several programming classes I would have caught on sooner

(many forehead smacks later......)

When he says a parameter is 0vvv vvvv,  it means the value is variable
based on what you want and what range.  I still don't know what MS
Nibble and LS Nibble is.  Does someone out there know?

Anyway,  what's cool about the Edirol boards is that you can save and
load configurations.  There's some for using w/ Cubase, Native
Instrument synths, GM, etc...   Some users have been kind to program
and upload the config.   They are available on Edirol's page.

AND.... there is a software editor.  I wish I had known this earlier
b/c I did all that programming from the board's interface.
(again, many forhead smacks later)

Unfortunately, no-one has made a config for the Evolver.  Obviously,
with only 28 controllers,  you'll only be able to control so many
parameters from this board.  8 knobs, 8 sliders, 9 buttons.  It is my
mission to program this sucker and make the evolver my ho!

So given that you have 8 knobs, 8 sliders, and 9 buttons,   what are
your suggestions for which parameters of the Evolver should be
assigned to them??   If and when I get this to work, I'll share the
configs with anyone who is interested.

For those who wish to try programming it on their own,  the Microsoft
Calculator is a great tool.  Switch to to SCIENTIFIC mode.  Now you
can enter in a decimal or binary value and convert it to HEX, and
vice-versa, just with a click of a button.  Beats calculating in your
head!!

Robert Krueger

-----Original Message-----

Robert,

Sounds like you have made some headway with the Edirol and the 
Evolver. I remember sitting down with PCR editor and the Evo manual 
and wanting to shoot myself because of how complicated it looked!
Anyway, as far my opinion on which parameteres to asssign, I find 
that basic  stuff like filter, resonance are a given (including the 
Highpass), then stuff like feedback and maybe delay levels. I would 
think that the Edirol control would be more for 'tweaking' sounds on 
the fly (lotsa fun!) than any real editing.  If you have to do real 
editing it's going to be better to use the Evo's interface. Good luck 
with it! 

Rick       




--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "rkruege1" <rkr1@t...> wrote:
> Okay,  I've made some headway in getting this Edirol to work as a
> remote controller with the Evovler.  You can fully program every 
key,
> slider, knob, and button, to transmit sysex that you specify.
> 
> It took me a couple hours of frustation at first why this 
programming
> wasn't working, but then it finally dawned on me that the Parameter
> values that DAVE has in the manual are in BINARY!!!!  
> 
> ERG!  I can't believe how long it took me to realize.  You'd think
> having taken several programming classes I would have caught on 
sooner
> 
> (many forehead smacks later......)
> 
> When he says a parameter is 0vvv vvvv,  it means the value is 
variable
> based on what you want and what range.  I still don't know what MS
> Nibble and LS Nibble is.  Does someone out there know?
> 
> Anyway,  what's cool about the Edirol boards is that you can save 
and
> load configurations.  There's some for using w/ Cubase, Native
> Instrument synths, GM, etc...   Some users have been kind to program
> and upload the config.   They are available on Edirol's page.
> 
> AND.... there is a software editor.  I wish I had known this earlier
> b/c I did all that programming from the board's interface.
> (again, many forhead smacks later)
> 
> Unfortunately, no-one has made a config for the Evolver.  Obviously,
> with only 28 controllers,  you'll only be able to control so many
> parameters from this board.  8 knobs, 8 sliders, 9 buttons.  It is 
my
> mission to program this sucker and make the evolver my ho!
> 
> So given that you have 8 knobs, 8 sliders, and 9 buttons,   what are
> your suggestions for which parameters of the Evolver should be
> assigned to them??   If and when I get this to work, I'll share the
> configs with anyone who is interested.
> 
> For those who wish to try programming it on their own,  the 
Microsoft
> Calculator is a great tool.  Switch to to SCIENTIFIC mode.  Now you
> can enter in a decimal or binary value and convert it to HEX, and
> vice-versa, just with a click of a button.  Beats calculating in 
your

> head!!
> 
> Robert Krueger

The only problem with things like Filter is that it has more than 128 steps,
and the Edirol doesn't seem to allow values ranges over 127.  I'm still
working on it though, there's 4 different data modes and I hope one of them
will allow me to.

I figured out the MS and LS nibble are the max and min parameter values,
like filter freq 0 - 127.  You can even program it for values that go
negative and positive and the center is Zero.

More work on this later,  I work nights and it's time for bed.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: rickyannotta [mailto:rickyannotta@...] 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 9:49 AM
> To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Evolver] Re: Sysex and Edirol
> 
> Robert,
> 
> Sounds like you have made some headway with the Edirol and 
> the Evolver. I remember sitting down with PCR editor and the 
> Evo manual and wanting to shoot myself because of how 
> complicated it looked!
> Anyway, as far my opinion on which parameteres to asssign, I 
> find that basic  stuff like filter, resonance are a given 
> (including the Highpass), then stuff like feedback and maybe 
> delay levels. I would think that the Edirol control would be 
> more for 'tweaking' sounds on the fly (lotsa fun!) than any 
> real editing.  If you have to do real editing it's going to 
> be better to use the Evo's interface. Good luck with it! 
> 
> Rick       
> 

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.677 / Virus Database: 439 - Release Date: 5/4/2004

rkruege1 (03:48 AM 5/12/2004) wrote:

 >When he says a parameter is 0vvv vvvv,  it means the value is variable
 >based on what you want and what range.  I still don't know what MS
 >Nibble and LS Nibble is.  Does someone out there know?

MS = Most Significant
LS = Least Significant
a Nibble = 1/2 of a byte
Byte = 8 "bit" value (decimal 0-255)

For example...

The decimal value 34 is 100010 binary
170 = 10101010b
161 = 10100001b
   3 = 11b

Looking at 10100001b (161 decimal), it's made up of two nibbles, the Most 
Significant and Least Significant. "Most" and "Least" are easiest to 
remember by the "weight" they carry on the value of the number. The first 
four bits of a byte are the MS, and the last 4 bits are the LS.

So, for 10100001b, the MS nibble is 1010, the least is 0001.
For 100010b (34 decimal), MS = 0010 , LS = 0010
For 11b, MS = 0000, LS = 0010


By Dave showing "0vvv vvvv", he's saying that you have a 7bit number, which 
would have a range of 0-127 decmial (00000000b - 01111111b) which is the 
MIDI max range.


Hope that helps!

Mark

AHHhhhhh... That makes some sense.  Okay,  I was close when saying it is the
range of the midi paramter values.

I'll read over your explanation a few more times and see if it sinks in :) 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Pulver [mailto:mark@...] 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:15 AM
> To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Evolver] Sysex and Edirol
> 
> rkruege1 (03:48 AM 5/12/2004) wrote:
> 
>  >When he says a parameter is 0vvv vvvv,  it means the value 
> is variable  >based on what you want and what range.  I still 
> don't know what MS  >Nibble and LS Nibble is.  Does someone 
> out there know?
> 
> MS = Most Significant
> LS = Least Significant
> a Nibble = 1/2 of a byte
> Byte = 8 "bit" value (decimal 0-255)
> 
> For example...
> 
> The decimal value 34 is 100010 binary
> 170 = 10101010b
> 161 = 10100001b
>    3 = 11b
> 
> Looking at 10100001b (161 decimal), it's made up of two 
> nibbles, the Most Significant and Least Significant. "Most" 
> and "Least" are easiest to remember by the "weight" they 
> carry on the value of the number. The first four bits of a 
> byte are the MS, and the last 4 bits are the LS.
> 
> So, for 10100001b, the MS nibble is 1010, the least is 0001.
> For 100010b (34 decimal), MS = 0010 , LS = 0010 For 11b, MS = 
> 0000, LS = 0010
> 
> 
> By Dave showing "0vvv vvvv", he's saying that you have a 7bit 
> number, which would have a range of 0-127 decmial (00000000b 
> - 01111111b) which is the MIDI max range.
> 
> 
> Hope that helps!
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
> ---------------------~--> Create your own customized 
> LAUNCHcast Internet Radio station. 
> Rate your favorite Artists, Albums, and Songs. Skip songs. Click here!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/5ddjqC/xA5HAA/n1hLAA/QnLolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -------~->
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.677 / Virus Database: 439 - Release Date: 5/4/2004
>  
> 

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.677 / Virus Database: 439 - Release Date: 5/4/2004

Okay,  walk me through this if you could and let me know if I got this down.

To program a Program Parameter (page46), it is built as follows :

1111 0000	System Exclusive	
0000 0001   DSI ID  
0010 0000	Evolver ID	 
0000 0001 	File Version 
0000 0001	Program Parameter
0vvv vvvv 	Paramater # you want to control
0000 vvvv	Parameter value, LS Nibble
0000 vvvv	Parameter value, MS Nibble
1111 0111	End of Sysex

In HEX,  this is : F0 01 20 01 01 ?? ?? ?? F7

Okay, so lets say I want to program Resonance ( page 55 )
Resonance is parameter # 22

So line 6 of the code, parameter #22 would be 0001 0110 in binary (16 in
HEX).  So line 7 and 8 are the midi range values, which are 4 bits each here
(1/2 a byte, hence a nibble)

I think I'm getting it.

So if the value range of resonance is 0 - 100, the LS Nibble should be value
0 or 0000 0000 in binary and 00 in HEX.

The MS Nibble is what confuses me now, because the value of 100 in Binary is
0110 0100,  but according to Dave's specification above,  the first 4 bits
should be all 0's.  ( 0000 vvvv )
 
Or do I have this all screwey???



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Pulver [mailto:mark@...] 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:15 AM
> To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Evolver] Sysex and Edirol
> 
> rkruege1 (03:48 AM 5/12/2004) wrote:
> 
>  >When he says a parameter is 0vvv vvvv,  it means the value 
> is variable  >based on what you want and what range.  I still 
> don't know what MS  >Nibble and LS Nibble is.  Does someone 
> out there know?
> 
> MS = Most Significant
> LS = Least Significant
> a Nibble = 1/2 of a byte
> Byte = 8 "bit" value (decimal 0-255)
> 
> For example...
> 
> The decimal value 34 is 100010 binary
> 170 = 10101010b
> 161 = 10100001b
>    3 = 11b
> 
> Looking at 10100001b (161 decimal), it's made up of two 
> nibbles, the Most Significant and Least Significant. "Most" 
> and "Least" are easiest to remember by the "weight" they 
> carry on the value of the number. The first four bits of a 
> byte are the MS, and the last 4 bits are the LS.
> 
> So, for 10100001b, the MS nibble is 1010, the least is 0001.
> For 100010b (34 decimal), MS = 0010 , LS = 0010 For 11b, MS = 
> 0000, LS = 0010
> 
> 
> By Dave showing "0vvv vvvv", he's saying that you have a 7bit 
> number, which would have a range of 0-127 decmial (00000000b 
> - 01111111b) which is the MIDI max range.
> 
> 
> Hope that helps!
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
> ---------------------~--> Create your own customized 
> LAUNCHcast Internet Radio station. 
> Rate your favorite Artists, Albums, and Songs. Skip songs. Click here!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/5ddjqC/xA5HAA/n1hLAA/QnLolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -------~->
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.677 / Virus Database: 439 - Release Date: 5/4/2004
>  
> 

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.677 / Virus Database: 439 - Release Date: 5/4/2004

Wait,  I think I got it

The two nibbles make up the single byte,  
M - most significant
L - least significant

The byte is MMMM LLLL

Binary of 100 is 1100100

My most significant is 0110
Least significant is 0100

Dave splits these two parameters up b/c some of the parameters on the
evolver go higher than 127.

To enter the last few entries of the Program Parameter I sent out earlier

0000 vvvv   Paramter value, LS nibble
0000 vvvv   Parameter value NS nibble

Will be

0000 0100
0000 0110

And finally
SWEET!  :)


Thanks for your help!!!!!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Pulver [mailto:mark@...] 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:15 AM
> To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Evolver] Sysex and Edirol
> 
> rkruege1 (03:48 AM 5/12/2004) wrote:
> 
>  >When he says a parameter is 0vvv vvvv,  it means the value 
> is variable  >based on what you want and what range.  I still 
> don't know what MS  >Nibble and LS Nibble is.  Does someone 
> out there know?
> 
> MS = Most Significant
> LS = Least Significant
> a Nibble = 1/2 of a byte
> Byte = 8 "bit" value (decimal 0-255)
> 
> For example...
> 
> The decimal value 34 is 100010 binary
> 170 = 10101010b
> 161 = 10100001b
>    3 = 11b
> 
> Looking at 10100001b (161 decimal), it's made up of two 
> nibbles, the Most Significant and Least Significant. "Most" 
> and "Least" are easiest to remember by the "weight" they 
> carry on the value of the number. The first four bits of a 
> byte are the MS, and the last 4 bits are the LS.
> 
> So, for 10100001b, the MS nibble is 1010, the least is 0001.
> For 100010b (34 decimal), MS = 0010 , LS = 0010 For 11b, MS = 
> 0000, LS = 0010
> 
> 
> By Dave showing "0vvv vvvv", he's saying that you have a 7bit 
> number, which would have a range of 0-127 decmial (00000000b 
> - 01111111b) which is the MIDI max range.
> 
> 
> Hope that helps!
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
> ---------------------~--> Create your own customized 
> LAUNCHcast Internet Radio station. 
> Rate your favorite Artists, Albums, and Songs. Skip songs. Click here!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/5ddjqC/xA5HAA/n1hLAA/QnLolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -------~->
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.677 / Virus Database: 439 - Release Date: 5/4/2004
>  
> 

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.677 / Virus Database: 439 - Release Date: 5/4/2004

what are you talking about ...hehe ;) keep on tweaking it - let us
know when you have success
cheers
phono








--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Krueger" <rkr1@t...> wrote:
> Wait,  I think I got it
> 
> The two nibbles make up the single byte,  
> M - most significant
> L - least significant
> 
> The byte is MMMM LLLL
> 
> Binary of 100 is 1100100
> 
> My most significant is 0110
> Least significant is 0100
> 
> Dave splits these two parameters up b/c some of the parameters on the
> evolver go higher than 127.
> 
> To enter the last few entries of the Program Parameter I sent out
earlier

> 
> 0000 vvvv   Paramter value, LS nibble
> 0000 vvvv   Parameter value NS nibble
> 
> Will be
> 
> 0000 0100
> 0000 0110
> 
> And finally
> SWEET!  :)
> 
> 
> Thanks for your help!!!!!
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mark Pulver [mailto:mark@m...] 
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:15 AM
> > To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Evolver] Sysex and Edirol
> > 
> > rkruege1 (03:48 AM 5/12/2004) wrote:
> > 
> >  >When he says a parameter is 0vvv vvvv,  it means the value 
> > is variable  >based on what you want and what range.  I still 
> > don't know what MS  >Nibble and LS Nibble is.  Does someone 
> > out there know?
> > 
> > MS = Most Significant
> > LS = Least Significant
> > a Nibble = 1/2 of a byte
> > Byte = 8 "bit" value (decimal 0-255)
> > 
> > For example...
> > 
> > The decimal value 34 is 100010 binary
> > 170 = 10101010b
> > 161 = 10100001b
> >    3 = 11b
> > 
> > Looking at 10100001b (161 decimal), it's made up of two 
> > nibbles, the Most Significant and Least Significant. "Most" 
> > and "Least" are easiest to remember by the "weight" they 
> > carry on the value of the number. The first four bits of a 
> > byte are the MS, and the last 4 bits are the LS.
> > 
> > So, for 10100001b, the MS nibble is 1010, the least is 0001.
> > For 100010b (34 decimal), MS = 0010 , LS = 0010 For 11b, MS = 
> > 0000, LS = 0010
> > 
> > 
> > By Dave showing "0vvv vvvv", he's saying that you have a 7bit 
> > number, which would have a range of 0-127 decmial (00000000b 
> > - 01111111b) which is the MIDI max range.
> > 
> > 
> > Hope that helps!
> > 
> > Mark
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
> > ---------------------~--> Create your own customized 
> > LAUNCHcast Internet Radio station. 
> > Rate your favorite Artists, Albums, and Songs. Skip songs. Click here!
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/5ddjqC/xA5HAA/n1hLAA/QnLolB/TM
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------~->
> > 
> >  
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > ---
> > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.677 / Virus Database: 439 - Release Date: 5/4/2004
> >  
> > 
> 
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.677 / Virus Database: 439 - Release Date: 5/4/2004

Weird,  my second message arrived before my first.... Wtf

No wonder that doesn't make any sense  :)

MY first message :

Okay,  walk me through this if you could and let me know if I got this down.

To program a Program Parameter (page46), it is built as follows :

1111 0000	System Exclusive	
0000 0001   DSI ID  
0010 0000	Evolver ID	 
0000 0001 	File Version 
0000 0001	Program Parameter
0vvv vvvv 	Paramater # you want to control
0000 vvvv	Parameter value, LS Nibble
0000 vvvv	Parameter value, MS Nibble
1111 0111	End of Sysex

In HEX,  this is : F0 01 20 01 01 ?? ?? ?? F7

Okay, so lets say I want to program Resonance ( page 55 ) Resonance is
parameter # 22

So line 6 of the code, parameter #22 would be 0001 0110 in binary (16 in
HEX).  So line 7 and 8 are the midi range values, which are 4 bits each here
(1/2 a byte, hence a nibble)

I think I'm getting it.

So if the value range of resonance is 0 - 100, the LS Nibble should be value
0 or 0000 0000 in binary and 00 in HEX.

The MS Nibble is what confuses me now, because the value of 100 in Binary is
0110 0100,  but according to Dave's specification above,  the first 4 bits
should be all 0's.  ( 0000 vvvv )
 
Or do I have this all screwey???

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: phonophobie [mailto:sidstation@...] 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 11:18 AM
> To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Evolver] Sysex and Edirol
> 
> what are you talking about ...hehe ;) keep on tweaking it - 
> let us know when you have success cheers phono
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Krueger" 
> <rkr1@t...> wrote:
> > Wait,  I think I got it
> > 
> > The two nibbles make up the single byte, M - most significant L - 
> > least significant
> > 
> > The byte is MMMM LLLL
> > 
> > Binary of 100 is 1100100
> > 
> > My most significant is 0110
> > Least significant is 0100
> > 
> > Dave splits these two parameters up b/c some of the 
> parameters on the 
> > evolver go higher than 127.
> > 
> > To enter the last few entries of the Program Parameter I sent out
> earlier
> > 
> > 0000 vvvv   Paramter value, LS nibble
> > 0000 vvvv   Parameter value NS nibble
> > 
> > Will be
> > 
> > 0000 0100
> > 0000 0110
> > 
> > And finally
> > SWEET!  :)
> > 
> > 
> > Thanks for your help!!!!!
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Mark Pulver [mailto:mark@m...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:15 AM
> > > To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Evolver] Sysex and Edirol
> > > 
> > > rkruege1 (03:48 AM 5/12/2004) wrote:
> > > 
> > >  >When he says a parameter is 0vvv vvvv,  it means the value is 
> > > variable  >based on what you want and what range.  I still don't 
> > > know what MS  >Nibble and LS Nibble is.  Does someone out there 
> > > know?
> > > 
> > > MS = Most Significant
> > > LS = Least Significant
> > > a Nibble = 1/2 of a byte
> > > Byte = 8 "bit" value (decimal 0-255)
> > > 
> > > For example...
> > > 
> > > The decimal value 34 is 100010 binary 170 = 10101010b
> > > 161 = 10100001b
> > >    3 = 11b
> > > 
> > > Looking at 10100001b (161 decimal), it's made up of two 
> nibbles, the 
> > > Most Significant and Least Significant. "Most"
> > > and "Least" are easiest to remember by the "weight" they carry on 
> > > the value of the number. The first four bits of a byte 
> are the MS, 
> > > and the last 4 bits are the LS.
> > > 
> > > So, for 10100001b, the MS nibble is 1010, the least is 0001.
> > > For 100010b (34 decimal), MS = 0010 , LS = 0010 For 11b, 
> MS = 0000, 
> > > LS = 0010
> > > 
> > > 
> > > By Dave showing "0vvv vvvv", he's saying that you have a 7bit 
> > > number, which would have a range of 0-127 decmial (00000000b
> > > - 01111111b) which is the MIDI max range.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hope that helps!
> > > 
> > > Mark
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
> > > ---------------------~--> Create your own customized LAUNCHcast 
> > > Internet Radio station.
> > > Rate your favorite Artists, Albums, and Songs. Skip 
> songs. Click here!
> > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/5ddjqC/xA5HAA/n1hLAA/QnLolB/TM
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > > -------~->
> > > 
> > >  
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > ---
> > > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > > Version: 6.0.677 / Virus Database: 439 - Release Date: 5/4/2004
> > >  
> > > 
> > 
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.677 / Virus Database: 439 - Release Date: 5/4/2004
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.677 / Virus Database: 439 - Release Date: 5/4/2004
>  
> 

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.677 / Virus Database: 439 - Release Date: 5/4/2004

On May 12, 2004, at 10:50 AM, Robert Krueger wrote:

> Okay,  walk me through this if you could and let me know if I got this 
> down.
>
> To program a Program Parameter (page46), it is built as follows :
>
> 1111 0000	System Exclusive	
> 0000 0001   DSI ID
> 0010 0000	Evolver ID	
> 0000 0001 	File Version
> 0000 0001	Program Parameter
> 0vvv vvvv 	Paramater # you want to control
> 0000 vvvv	Parameter value, LS Nibble
> 0000 vvvv	Parameter value, MS Nibble
> 1111 0111	End of Sysex
>
> In HEX,  this is : F0 01 20 01 01 ?? ?? ?? F7
>
> Okay, so lets say I want to program Resonance ( page 55 )
> Resonance is parameter # 22
>
> So line 6 of the code, parameter #22 would be 0001 0110 in binary (16 
> in
> HEX).  So line 7 and 8 are the midi range values, which are 4 bits 
> each here
> (1/2 a byte, hence a nibble)

I don't see what makes you think they're the range. it just says 
"parameter value".
I *believe* this means the value you want the parameter in line 6 to be 
set to.
i.e. you have to send one of the above messages for every new value of 
said
parameter.

the MS nibble and LS nibble part just means the upper and lower parts 
of the
byte you're forming.  the MS nibble will just be shifted left a nibble. 
so if you're
trying to send the value 100, it will be: F0 01 20 01 01 16 04 06 F7 
since 100
is 0110 0100 which gives you LS and MS values of 0100 (4) and 0110 (6),
respectively.

hope that helps, it seems right to me...but then again I've never 
programmed this
into a controller, so....

Joe

Robert Krueger (08:24 AM 5/12/2004) wrote:

 >Okay,  walk me through this if you could and let me know if I got this down.
 >
 >[stuff clipped out to be repeated below]
 >
 >Or do I have this all screwey???

No, you're really close.

I don't have the manual or anything in front of me, but what's happening is 
that it looks like Dave is using two bytes in the SysEx "packet" because he 
wants them "flipped" (LS comes before MS versus the normal of MS then LS). So..

(and to use your example)

   1. 1111 0000  System Exclusive	
   2. 0000 0001   DSI ID
   3. 0010 0000	Evolver ID	
   4. 0000 0001 	File Version
   5. 0000 0001	Program Parameter
   6. 0vvv vvvv 	Paramater # you want to control
   7. 0000 vvvv	Parameter value, LS Nibble
   8. 0000 vvvv	Parameter value, MS Nibble
   9. 1111 0111	End of Sysex

In HEX,  this is : F0 01 20 01 01 ?? ?? ?? F7

Okay, so lets say I want to program Resonance ( page 55 ) Resonance is
parameter # 22

So line 6 of the code, parameter #22 would be 0001 0110 in binary (16 in
HEX).  So line 7 and 8 are the midi range values, which are 4 bits each here
(1/2 a byte, hence a nibble)

*** this is correct to here.

 >So if the value range of resonance is 0 - 100, the LS Nibble should be value
 >0 or 0000 0000 in binary and 00 in HEX.

This is a bit confusing because of how you phrased it.

A byte can handle values 0-255, a nibble will only get you values 0-15, so 
when you talk about a range of 0-100, you can't just set the LS or MS 
nibble to 0. I understand how you got that from reading the spec, but 
you're interpretation is a bit off. :)

When a spec is given like this:

   7. 0000 vvvv	Parameter value, LS Nibble
   8. 0000 vvvv	Parameter value, MS Nibble

Then it means that you have to break up the byte value into two pieces, the 
MS and LS nibble, and send each piece as a separate byte. So..

If you wanted to set resonance to 100 (decimal) then:

   - Convert the value to binary: 01100100
     (make sure you use leading 0's to avoid getting "lost")

   - Split it into two nibbles:   MS   LS
                                 0110 0100

   - Now set the parameter values:

       7. 0000 vvvv	Parameter value, LS Nibble
          becomes:  0000 0100  or 04 hex

       8. 0000 vvvv	Parameter value, MS Nibble
          becomes:  0000 0110  or 06 hex

So, your SysEx string would be:

   F0 01 20 01 01 16 04 06 F7

Does that make sense?


Something else to note... Just 'cause Resonance is spec'd to be in a range 
of 0-100 doesn't mean that you can't stuff 101, 102, 103...255 in there. :) 
You won't hurt anything and you may get some interesting results. :)


(btw... good job at figuring this out - it's not easy!)

Mark

On May 12, 2004, at 12:48 PM, Mark Pulver wrote:
>  So, your SysEx string would be:
>
>     F0 01 20 01 01 16 04 06 F7
>
>  Does that make sense?

which is exactly what I said :-)

but you definitely gave a better explanation! anyway, I'm glad you
two walked through this, so that I can do it once I have a capable
controller.

Joe

Joe Melnyk (10:03 AM 5/12/2004) wrote:

 >On May 12, 2004, at 12:48 PM, Mark Pulver wrote:
 >>  So, your SysEx string would be:
 >>
 >>     F0 01 20 01 01 16 04 06 F7
 >>
 >>  Does that make sense?
 >
 >which is exactly what I said :-)

Yeup... I didn't see your email until after I sent mine.

Sorry!


Mark

> 
> So, your SysEx string would be:
> 
>    F0 01 20 01 01 16 04 06 F7
> 
> Does that make sense?
> 


Yes,  that's actually what I got and it makes perfect sense.

The final $10,000 dollar question is,  how do you tell a slider programmed
with that hex to change that value as you slide it.  If I enter "04 06" for
the nibbles, I'm actually HARD setting the value. That's why I thought of it
as a range when setting up the controller.  I thought it needed to know what
it's minimum and maximum value were as you tweaked it.

The Edirol Editor has a specific field to enter what/how the DATA portion of
control message is configured as.  (in the case above, we're talking the 04
06 value)

STRING : F0 01 20 01 01 16 04 06 F7


DATA MODE :
7bit
4bit/4bit
7bit/7bit (MSB/LSB)
7bit/7bit (LSB/MSB)
4bit/4bit/4bit/4bit


The last one there is the only one that allows you to have more than 127
values.  You can have up to 255.  So I believe that is the one I want to
select.

The Edirol Editor then has a Min and Max value setting for the DATA range.
So the capability is there.  But what do I enter for the string??  If I put
04 06 for the data portion, that's fixing at 100.  I can't leave "04 06"
portion blank can I?  Is the data portion of a sysex message always the
bytes before the SYSEX End byte (F7)??  Will it know that's where it's
supposed to place the data bytes.

Or do I have to tell it that's where the data portion is.......   Stuff to
ponder and figure out while I work tonight  :)   More testing of this
tomorrow morning.  Soooo close.... Sooo close....

I still find it odd that out of 2 messages I sent 5 minutes apart,  the
second one came instantly, my first one showed up 5 hours later..... ????
Yahoo... What the hell...??  :)




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.677 / Virus Database: 439 - Release Date: 5/4/2004

Robert Krueger (03:46 PM 5/12/2004) wrote:


{I'm going to clip a lot of this out to save space, but know that I read it 
all}


 >The final $10,000 dollar question is,  how do you tell a slider programmed
 >with that hex to change that value as you slide it.
 >
 >The Edirol Editor has a specific field to enter what/how the DATA portion of
 >control message is configured as.  (in the case above, we're talking the 04
 >06 value)
 >
 >STRING : F0 01 20 01 01 16 04 06 F7
 >
 >DATA MODE :
 >7bit
 >4bit/4bit
 >7bit/7bit (MSB/LSB)
 >7bit/7bit (LSB/MSB)
 >4bit/4bit/4bit/4bit
 >
 >The last one there is the only one that allows you to have more than 127
 >values.  You can have up to 255.  So I believe that is the one I want to
 >select.

Okay... Without a manual for the Edirol device, and the device itself, I'm 
kinda' shooting in the dark here.

 From what you've posted, I'm guessing that the data mode information is 
defining the max size of a value to modify, and the number of bytes that it 
will use to express the modified value. e.g.:

   "7bit" means values from 0-127 in one byte
   "4bit/4bit" are values from 0-255 in two bytes
         (one byte for each nibble)
   etc...

If that's true, then the mode you want is 4bit/4bit. BUT - I don't see 
where it defines the order that the nibbles will be sent.

Hmmm... I wonder if the Edirol box will work... I wonder why Dave split the 
byte?


 >The Edirol Editor then has a Min and Max value setting for the DATA range.
 >So the capability is there.  But what do I enter for the string??  If I put
 >04 06 for the data portion, that's fixing at 100.  I can't leave "04 06"
 >portion blank can I?  Is the data portion of a sysex message always the
 >bytes before the SYSEX End byte (F7)??  Will it know that's where it's
 >supposed to place the data bytes.

No, there has to be some way to tell it, and this will be specific to the 
Edirol Editor. Again, without a manual or a device, it's hard for me to be 
specifically helpful.


btw... This may be helpful in your general travels, but I don't think that 
SysEx section will be really help you now:

   http://www.borg.com/~jglatt/tech/midispec.htm

and there's more at the top of the site:

   http://www.borg.com/~jglatt/


Another idea... Most SysEx apps have a MIDI monitor built-in. Is your MIDI 
platform Windows? If so, then grab MIDI-OX and set it up in monitor mode 
while working with the controller. It will be incredibly easy to see just 
how it's modifying data:

   http://www.midiox.com/


 >I still find it odd that out of 2 messages I sent 5 minutes apart,  the
 >second one came instantly, my first one showed up 5 hours later..... ????
 >Yahoo... What the hell...??  :)

Yahoo loves burping, but it's also possible that it could have been a 
forwarding server somewhere else down the line. It doesn't take "much" for 
a server to hold a piece of mail and wait for it's "retry" cycle to come 
around.


Mark

I figured out how to enter the data range portion of the string for the
edirol.  You use the letters DT in the string to tell it where it's located.


F0 01 20 01 01 10 DT F7

They you select the Data Type, and as I listed before, they are :
(Edirol manual page 161)

---------------------------------------------------------------
Data	Data		Default		Target Range of
Mode	Type		Range			Setting
----	----		-------		---------------
DT0	7bit		00H-7F		Specify the Range of data (00-7FH)

DT1	4bit/4bit	0H/0H-FH/FH		Specify the Range of the
first byte
						(0-FH), second byte is fixed
at 0-FH

DT2	7bit/7bit	00H/00H-7FH/7FH	Specify the MSB range (00-7F),
	(MSB/LSB)				LSB is fixed at 00-7F

DT3	7bit/7bit	00H/00H-7FH/7FH	Specify the MSB range (00-7F),
	(LSB/MSB)				LSB is fixed at 00-7F

DT4	4bit/4bit/	7H/FH/0H/1H-	Specify the limits of
positive/negative
	4bit/4bit	8H/0H/FH/FH		change as a value from 00H
to FFH, 
						centered on 8000H
----------------------------------------------------------------

Okay,  the bad news is, it doesn't appear that any of these modes are what
the Evolver is looking for in terms of the Parameter Value we are trying to
set.  The Evolver is looking for :

0000 vvvv	Parameter Value LS Nibble (a 4 bit value)
0000 vvvv	Parameter Value MS Nibble (a 4 bit value)

I'm interpreting this as the format like the Edirol has above as :

4bit/4bit
(LSB/MSB)

As you can see above,  this data type does not exist under the Edirol's
possible data modes.  The evolver DOES respond.  So I know the Sysex works,
but it doesn't respond like it should because the data mode doesn't match.

DT3 looks like the one we want b/c the LS nibbles is first followed by the
MS Nibble,  just like the evolver parameter is set up.... BUT,  the edirol
has these as 7 bits instead of 4 bits.

Selecting Modes DT2 and DT3 causes the values to jump around throughout the
data range. DT4 is not correct either as it locks to a single value

So for you gurus out there,  does the 7bit/7bit (LSB/MSB) not work because
the Evovler is looking for 4bit/4bit?  Or does it not matter because a 7 bit
value of 0000 0001 is the same value as a 4bit value of 0001 ??

You're input please.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.677 / Virus Database: 439 - Release Date: 5/4/2004

My findings concur with your own, the best I could do was to manually 
program the "input transformer" in MIDI OX to output specific sysex 
srtings when it recives a CC value.  This requires laborious 
programming and only allows for 128 values per parameter.

Robert Krueger (06:53 AM 5/13/2004) wrote:


Yeah, I was afraid this wouldn't work after seeing the Edirol options. :(


 >So for you gurus out there,  does the 7bit/7bit (LSB/MSB) not work
 >because the Evovler is looking for 4bit/4bit?  Or does it not matter
 >because a 7 bit value of 0000 0001 is the same value as a 4bit
 >value of 0001 ??

The issue is that the 7bit/7bit mode is counting to a 7bit number (127) 
before it rolls into the next byte. e.g.:

   "3" would be:     00000000 00000011
   "13" would be:    00000000 00001101
   "15" would be:    00000000 00001111
(so far so good)

   "16" would be:    00000000 00010000   (oops!)
   "100" would be:   00000000 01100100   (oops!)
   "127" would be:   00000000 11111111   (oops!)


What you need is:
   "15" would be:    00000000 00001111
   "16" would be:    00000001 00000000
   "100" would be:   00000110 00000100
   "127" would be:   00001111 00001111


Mark

Yah, crud...  I really had my hopes up.... was really making progress
here :-p

Well at least I have a good understanding of SYSEX and how to program it.

Only thing left now is to inundate Edirol with requests for an added
data mode of 4bit/4bit (LSB/MSB), or inundate Dave with requests for
CC's (which will only give us 0-127 value range though, but it's
better than nothing :)  )

Thanks everyone for their help and patience.


--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, Mark Pulver <mark@m...> wrote:
> Robert Krueger (06:53 AM 5/13/2004) wrote:
> 
> 
> Yeah, I was afraid this wouldn't work after seeing the Edirol
options. :(
> 
>

From: "rkruege1" <rkr1@...>

> Yah, crud...  I really had my hopes up.... was really making progress
> here :-p
>
aaah.. so close.....

> Only thing left now is to inundate Edirol with requests for an added
> data mode of 4bit/4bit (LSB/MSB), or inundate Dave with requests for
> CC's
>
actually SysEx nibbles are pretty common.. if this edirol thing can't do
that then it really needs an upgrade....

like I keep saying, The peavey PC1600 handles the sysex you need for the
evolver.. they're pretty cheap on ebay these days, and presets already exist
(downloadable off DSI website!!) for them.



julian

> actually SysEx nibbles are pretty common.. if this edirol thing can't do
> that then it really needs an upgrade....
> 


It does do nibbles,  in 7bit/7bit format, not in 4bit/4bit which we
need.  I'm not looking to drop another $300 on hardware just to
control the Evolver.  I can only hope for updates.  Or the lottery....

mr julian (11:29 PM 5/13/2004) wrote:

 >like I keep saying, The peavey PC1600 handles the sysex you need for the
 >evolver.. they're pretty cheap on ebay these days, and presets already exist
 >(downloadable off DSI website!!) for them.

Yeup, and the Encore controllers as well:

Encore:
http://www.encoreelectronics.com/cont_product.html


Mark

Hi there,
I'm glad for all of you who are lucky to have the Peavey, or another controller that works.  
 
As for me, I've got a BitStream Pro MIDI controller from Wave Ideas...overall it's quite flexible, and I love it.  Unfortunately, I've hit a snag with using it to control the Evolver.  The Bitstream's sysex capabiIities do not address the case of assigning parameter values with 2 x 4 bit knibbles; it allows you to identify a single byte only.  Wave Ideas (small company in France) tells me they haven't encountered this unusual spec before.
 
I'll report back if Wave Ideas is able to engineer a solution; for now their unsuitable workaround is to lock the first knibble at "00" then assign the controller's knob to adjust values of the second knibble. :(
 
Drew

http://www.waveidea.com
 

Mark Pulver <mark@...> wrote:
mr julian (11:29 PM 5/13/2004) wrote:

>like I keep saying, The peavey PC1600 handles the sysex you need for the
>evolver.. they're pretty cheap on ebay these days, and presets already exist
>(downloadable off DSI website!!) for them.

Yeup, and the Encore controllers as well:

Encore:
http://www.encoreelectronics.com/cont_product.html


Mark 

		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "rkruege1" <rkr1@t...> wrote:
> 
> > actually SysEx nibbles are pretty common.. if this edirol thing 
can't do
> > that then it really needs an upgrade....
> > 
> 
> 
> It does do nibbles,  in 7bit/7bit format, not in 4bit/4bit which we
> need.  I'm not looking to drop another $300 on hardware just to
> control the Evolver.  I can only hope for updates.  Or the 
lottery....

This wouldn't be a perfect solution by any means, but it would be 
easy (for someone so equipped) to build a small software utility that 
would listen to the Edirol and translate its output to "Evolver Sysex-
speak".  You could use Hubi's Loopback to route Edirol -> PC MIDI 
INPUT -> Translation Utility -> PC MIDI OUTPUT -> Evolver.  In other 
words, the PC + Utility sits in-between your Edirol and Evolver to 
translate the Sysex properly.

You could set up the Edirol to transmit the same "almost Evolver 
Sysex" that you have been doing, and continue to use the 7-bit/7-bit 
format.  (I believe someone else had a non-Edirol that also used this 
format?)  All the translation utility would have to do is take the 7-
7 byte format and translate it into the proper 4-4 format needed for 
the Evolver.  

In other words, the utility would pass the first 6 bytes of every 
Sysex message on to the output untouched... then "touch up" the 7th 
and 8th bytes to have the proper 4-4 nibble format... then finish up 
by sending the last EOX byte.

For completeness sake, the utility ought to pass ALL incoming MIDI on 
to its output, and only touch up the Sysex messages.  That way you 
could play a keyboard (note on/off, etc) as well as run your control 
surface boxes into the Evolver through the same MIDI cable.  Over 
time, there may be other control surfaces with similar problems 
interfacing to the Evolver, that could be accomodated in the utility, 
if needed.

OK, that's the Requirements Spec. :)  No somebody go write it.