Dave Smith Instruments SYNTHESIZERS

Hi there, any news or joy regarding the Soundtower editor in 10.4.4 tiger, regarding the 
issues I posted here a few eeks back?

Many thanks

-Matt

First few hours on a polyevolver, though I've owned an Evolver before.
Similarly - I've used the soundtower editor before, but I'm new to combo
mode, both on the poly, and in the editor.

So, maybe I've misinterpreted how this is all supposed to work.

Shouldn't I be able to, in combo mode, set up 4 instruments in mono mode,
and play different sequences on each one?

Can someone tell me how to do that in the editor. I just get the strangest
behavior - the number of the programs not matching the descriptions, the
programs seemingly not matching the chosen instrument in the combo menu -
essentially it just seems to be totally flaky.

Has anyone ever set this up?

I'm using os x 10.4.4, which may be an issue. But I thought it was only
potentially midi that was a problem...

In any case - I am ready to sell it (bought it used and can probably get my
money back), and just get a PEK. My preference would be to find out that
this is just user error, and that the editor does bear some semblance to
functional.

Hi Gene
Thanks for the note.

Indeed there is a small issue that remains in the latest 
update that prevents the editor from switching combos in the OSX 
version. This is a fun little artifact of OSX 10.4.4. The fix for it 
will be found on our website. 

http://www.soundtower.com/synth/evolver.htm

thanks again
Derek
SoundTower HelpDesk
www.soundtower.com


--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, Gene Schwartz <implode7@...> 
wrote:
>
> First few hours on a polyevolver, though I've owned an Evolver 
before.
> Similarly - I've used the soundtower editor before, but I'm new to 
combo
> mode, both on the poly, and in the editor.
> 
> So, maybe I've misinterpreted how this is all supposed to work.
> 
> Shouldn't I be able to, in combo mode, set up 4 instruments in 
mono mode,
> and play different sequences on each one?
> 
> Can someone tell me how to do that in the editor. I just get the 
strangest
> behavior - the number of the programs not matching the 
descriptions, the
> programs seemingly not matching the chosen instrument in the combo 
menu -
> essentially it just seems to be totally flaky.
> 
> Has anyone ever set this up?
> 
> I'm using os x 10.4.4, which may be an issue. But I thought it was 
only
> potentially midi that was a problem...
> 
> In any case - I am ready to sell it (bought it used and can 
probably get my
> money back), and just get a PEK. My preference would be to find 
out that
> this is just user error, and that the editor does bear some 
semblance to
> functional.
>

I take it that you mean literally that it WILL be available...just got my
polyevolver keyboard today, and the site still seems to have the older
version that doesn¹t work.

> Hi Gene
> Thanks for the note.
> 
> Indeed there is a small issue that remains in the latest
> update that prevents the editor from switching combos in the OSX
> version. This is a fun little artifact of OSX 10.4.4. The fix for it
> will be found on our website.
> 
> http://www.soundtower.com/synth/evolver.htm
> 
> thanks again
> Derek
> SoundTower HelpDesk
> www.soundtower.com
> 
> 
> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, Gene Schwartz <implode7@...>
> wrote:
>> 
>> First few hours on a polyevolver, though I've owned an Evolver
> before.
>> Similarly - I've used the soundtower editor before, but I'm new to
> combo
>> mode, both on the poly, and in the editor.
>> 
>> So, maybe I've misinterpreted how this is all supposed to work.
>> 
>> Shouldn't I be able to, in combo mode, set up 4 instruments in
> mono mode,
>> and play different sequences on each one?
>> 
>> Can someone tell me how to do that in the editor. I just get the
> strangest
>> behavior - the number of the programs not matching the
> descriptions, the
>> programs seemingly not matching the chosen instrument in the combo
> menu -
>> essentially it just seems to be totally flaky.
>> 
>> Has anyone ever set this up?
>> 
>> I'm using os x 10.4.4, which may be an issue. But I thought it was
> only
>> potentially midi that was a problem...
>> 
>> In any case - I am ready to sell it (bought it used and can
> probably get my
>> money back), and just get a PEK. My preference would be to find
> out that
>> this is just user error, and that the editor does bear some
> semblance to
>> functional.
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

I take it from reading an earlier thread that some people, at least,
consider the inability to save program parameters edited from combo mode to
be an issue with the way that they want to work with the polyevolver.

Not only, of course, can't you save any of the changes, but, as soon as you
hit save on the combo, all of them are lost...

I emailed Dave about this, and he said that I was the only one to have made
this request!

Surely there must be others who would want to work this way (especially with
the 4 sequencers), having the ability to return to the same combo with all
of the sequences and sound parameters, at a later time. I want to be
responsible myself for patch management, and I don't want one of the
potentially most appealling features of this machine to be disabled for fear
that I'll hurt myself...

In any case - please - I don't want to hear about how real musicians plan
out all of their stuff in advance, or that you never use combo mode, etc....

If you think this to be something that should be added, maybe shoot Dave an
email...if not, don't.

My waldorf XTk allows this. I'm surprised the polyevolver doesn't do it
too. Because as far as "musician" editing goes, if you use multi mode,
that's where most of your fine tuning edits are going to happen as a
track comes together... I'm also surprised this is the first complaint
anyone has had about it.

It's a really cool feature, though can get more than a little confusing
if you're not careful. The XTk has 8 patch memory buffers, storing the
last 8 edited patches (because you can have 8 channels in multi mode,
and edit patches on any or all of them! and an edit isn't thrown out
until you go to edit a new patch and the changed patch buffers are all
full - so in single mode, where if you're auditioning patches and
tweaking them to see what you can see, it'll remember up to the last 8
patches you edited!)  But it works pretty simply and seamlessly - You
make up your multi patch, you tweak away, then if you want to, you can
save multis and individual modified patches one by one from the save
menu.


Now, a really cool feature for the polyevolver, that the XTk doesn't
have, would be a patch "save as" function from inside a multi, where you
can save a single patch you just tweaked to a *new* patch location, and
the multi will automatically link to the edited & saved version of the
patch, not the original one. Basically, it would be just a simple little
macro. but would save a lot of button pushing and patch number
remembering for a very common thing that I've had to spend a lot of time
doing over and over.
:-)





On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 11:55:40 -0800, "Gene Schwartz"
<implode7@...> said:
> I take it from reading an earlier thread that some people, at least,
> consider the inability to save program parameters edited from combo mode
> to
> be an issue with the way that they want to work with the polyevolver.
> 
> Not only, of course, can't you save any of the changes, but, as soon as
> you
> hit save on the combo, all of them are lost...
> 
> I emailed Dave about this, and he said that I was the only one to have
> made
> this request!
> 
> Surely there must be others who would want to work this way (especially
> with
> the 4 sequencers), having the ability to return to the same combo with
> all
> of the sequences and sound parameters, at a later time. I want to be
> responsible myself for patch management, and I don't want one of the
> potentially most appealling features of this machine to be disabled for
> fear
> that I'll hurt myself...
> 
> In any case - please - I don't want to hear about how real musicians plan
> out all of their stuff in advance, or that you never use combo mode,
> etc....
> 
> If you think this to be something that should be added, maybe shoot Dave
> an
> email...if not, don't.
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
-- 
http://bleepin.com

-- 
http://www.fastmail.fm - Access your email from home and the web

"Julian" <jujulilianan@...> writes:
> My waldorf XTk allows this. I'm surprised the polyevolver doesn't do it
> too. Because as far as "musician" editing goes, if you use multi mode,
> that's where most of your fine tuning edits are going to happen as a
> track comes together... I'm also surprised this is the first complaint
> anyone has had about it.

It's not -- I've certainly complained about it on this list before, and
I did so in response to someone else's complaint. :-)

It's a silly restriction; my guess as to why it's there is because Dave
is just one guy doing everything and he didn't want to be bothered
writing the code to deal with it. To tell the truth, combo mode in
general seems like a bit of a quick hack (not the concept, but the
implementation).

I currently use the Really Annoying method of _writing down_ changes to
programs I make in combo mode, and then later re-applying them by hand
in program mode... !!

-miles
-- 
"I distrust a research person who is always obviously busy on a task."
   --Robert Frosch, VP, GM Research

I emailed Dave, he said it is now on his feature wishlist, but gave no idea of a timeline or 
priority. So if you really want it like Gene has said in an earlier post, it is now time to speak 
up. Just drop Dave an email.

Mark

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, Miles Bader <miles@...> wrote:

>
> "Julian" <jujulilianan@...> writes:
> > My waldorf XTk allows this. I'm surprised the polyevolver doesn't do it
> > too. Because as far as "musician" editing goes, if you use multi mode,
> > that's where most of your fine tuning edits are going to happen as a
> > track comes together... I'm also surprised this is the first complaint
> > anyone has had about it.
> 
> It's not -- I've certainly complained about it on this list before, and
> I did so in response to someone else's complaint. :-)
> 
> It's a silly restriction; my guess as to why it's there is because Dave
> is just one guy doing everything and he didn't want to be bothered
> writing the code to deal with it. To tell the truth, combo mode in
> general seems like a bit of a quick hack (not the concept, but the
> implementation).
> 
> I currently use the Really Annoying method of _writing down_ changes to
> programs I make in combo mode, and then later re-applying them by hand
> in program mode... !!
> 
> -miles
> -- 
> "I distrust a research person who is always obviously busy on a task."
>    --Robert Frosch, VP, GM Research
>

I really like this instrument. I have room for one keyboard in this apt -
had I known about this limitation, would I have chosen the Andromeda
instead? Yes. 

Perhaps I can be faulted for not doing my research thoroughly enough, but
this took me by surprise. I know the Evolver, so I just expected this to be,
as it is touted, a multitimbral instrument. But, it is only barely.

And not only do you lose ALL program edits whenever you hit save, but also
if you change ANY of the combo part parameters. So, after messing with this
for a couple of hours, if you decide to choose another patch for part 4, you
lose ALL changes you've made to all programs in all combo parts.

The ability to work with the sequencer and programs in combo mode was what
really made me choose this keyboard, and essentially (imo) it is not an
exaggeration to say that combo mode hasn't been implemented except as an
extremely sketchy afterthought. And Dave doesn't really see the need to
change it. I don't want to wait a year or two, or have it never happen.

I really find this frustrating. If you want to use the evolver this way, I
don't see much of an advantage to the polyevolver keyboard over the mek.

My current thinking is to see if I can return it.

> I emailed Dave, he said it is now on his feature wishlist, but gave no idea of
> a timeline or 
> priority. So if you really want it like Gene has said in an earlier post, it
> is now time to speak
> up. Just drop Dave an email.
> 
> Mark
> 
> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, Miles Bader <miles@...> wrote:
>> 
>> "Julian" <jujulilianan@...> writes:
>>> My waldorf XTk allows this. I'm surprised the polyevolver doesn't do it
>>> too. Because as far as "musician" editing goes, if you use multi mode,
>>> that's where most of your fine tuning edits are going to happen as a
>>> track comes together... I'm also surprised this is the first complaint
>>> anyone has had about it.
>> 
>> It's not -- I've certainly complained about it on this list before, and
>> I did so in response to someone else's complaint. :-)
>> 
>> It's a silly restriction; my guess as to why it's there is because Dave
>> is just one guy doing everything and he didn't want to be bothered
>> writing the code to deal with it. To tell the truth, combo mode in
>> general seems like a bit of a quick hack (not the concept, but the
>> implementation).
>> 
>> I currently use the Really Annoying method of _writing down_ changes to
>> programs I make in combo mode, and then later re-applying them by hand
>> in program mode... !!
>> 
>> -miles
>> -- 
>> "I distrust a research person who is always obviously busy on a task."
>>    --Robert Frosch, VP, GM Research
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

> I really find this frustrating. If you want to use the evolver this way, I
> don't see much of an advantage to the polyevolver keyboard over the mek.
> 
> My current thinking is to see if I can return it.
> 


If you can't, let me know,  I may be interested in purchasing this from you.

> 
>> I really find this frustrating. If you want to use the evolver this way, I
>> don't see much of an advantage to the polyevolver keyboard over the mek.
>> 
>> My current thinking is to see if I can return it.
>> 
> 
> 
> If you can't, let me know,  I may be interested in purchasing this from you.

Ok - well, it IS certainly 'as new'. I did get a discounted price (since I
bought a bunch of stuff), but I really don't want to take a loss right
now....nor do I want to make a profit.

Gene

HI,

 

I am thinking of getting a PEK and this thread is worrying me slightly.

 

Can I check I have this correct in my head. 

 

If I have a combo with 4 different programs, I fiddle with the knobs to
set everythng up as I like, then I cannot save this work?

 

Also If I load a different program I loose all my changes?

 

Have I got this correct?

 

Thanks

 

Andy

When you’re in combo mode, there are 2 kinds of changes you can make, if you look at it with this distinction in mind. You can make changes to the combo level features to each part \u2013 tempo, transpose, mode (how many voices per part), clock div, etc. But you can also then go and make changes to the sounds \u2013 filter cutoff for the sound in part 1, or vca level for the sound in part 2, etc. These are the changes that you normally save when you save a program in program mode. Some of the basic sequencer parameters are found on both levels \u2013 temp/clock division of the sequencer, for instance.

Ok \u2013 So, suppose you\u2019ve started to work this way.....I discovered this when I wanted to mess around with an identical program/sequence in 2 of the parts, and then start making changes to various parameters.

Well, you\u2019ve made a bunch of changes and it sounds really good, or really bad (I sometimes like to save some of my most profoundly bad stuff in case I ever get employed by the CIA), and you want to save some of the program edits and sequencer changes. Well, you can\u2019t do it. There is no way. The combo level stuff will save with the combo, but there is no way to save the stuff that changes the sound itself, or anything to do with specific steps of the sequencer, any modulations, etc...But don\u2019t make the mistake of saving the combo, or you will lose everything right there, except for the combo stuff \u2013 the programs you will save will be the originals, not the edited versions.

It\u2019s also a mistake when you\u2019re working this way to change any of several parameters that give basic information about the structure of that combo part. If you decide to use 2 voices in channel 2, for instance, rather than 1, that will reinitialize all of the programs in all of the parts to their settings when they were first loaded into the combo part. Same with calling up another sound for part 4.

These issues effect your enjoyment only to the degree to which you want to edit and save your work in combo mode.




\u201cHI,

I am thinking of getting a PEK and this thread is worrying me slightly.

Can I check I have this correct in my head.

If I have a combo with 4 different programs, I fiddle with the knobs to set everythng up as I like, then I cannot save this work?

Also If I load a different program I loose all my changes?

Have I got this correct?

Thanks

Andy\u201d



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Gene Schwartz <implode7@...> writes:
> I really like this instrument. I have room for one keyboard in this apt -
> had I known about this limitation, would I have chosen the Andromeda
> instead? Yes. 

If a super-well-implemented multi-timbral mode is more important to you
than the sound, you may be better off with a VA synth or rompler.

Something like the NL3 for instance, has a _far_ slicker, better thought
out, and more solid multi-timbral mode than the poly-evolver, not to
mention more polyphony and a lot less weight.  The only problem is ...
it doesn't sound like an Evolver (though it has a rather nice sound of
its own).

-Miles
-- 
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

> Gene Schwartz <implode7@...> writes:
>> I really like this instrument. I have room for one keyboard in this apt -
>> had I known about this limitation, would I have chosen the Andromeda
>> instead? Yes. 
> 
> If a super-well-implemented multi-timbral mode is more important to you
> than the sound, you may be better off with a VA synth or rompler.
> 

I didn't mean to suggest anything close to that. Obviously I'm interested in
the sound because I went out of my way to chose an instrument that is partly
analog and has much analog flavor. I don't think I can get that in a va.

We're not talking about a well implemented multitimbral mode - we're
essential talking about it having one or not having one. If I had to chose
between the polyevolver and a va (that I know of), I'd chose the
polyevolver. 

It always seems that on these lists, if you say that there is one feature
whose deficiency really impacts your use of an instrument, people are always
ready to suggest that maybe you should get another type of instrument
altogether, or maybe take up juggling.

I also made the point that given the implementation, the monoevolver seems
like a much better deal.

In any case - if you don't think that this is an issue, that's perfectly
cool. It is for me. I like the sound. I don't want a va. Anything
contradictory there?


> Something like the NL3 for instance, has a _far_ slicker, better thought
> out, and more solid multi-timbral mode than the poly-evolver, not to
> mention more polyphony and a lot less weight.  The only problem is ...
> it doesn't sound like an Evolver (though it has a rather nice sound of
> its own).
> 

I can't stand the nord sound. I don't want a Virus. Sorry. I don't want to
have to argue this point.

So if I was to load 4 separate programs into the combo and then edit the
sequence of each one and save the combo that would work ok?

 

It's only when I use the same program in the 4 parts and edit them that
I cannot save correctly?

 

Have I got this right?

 

Cheers

 

Andy

 

________________________________

From: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Gene Schwartz
Sent: 27 February 2006 23:03
To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Evolver] Re: Per/pek - saving programs edited in combo
mode

 

	When you're in combo mode, there are 2 kinds of changes you can
make, if you look at it with this distinction in mind. You can make
changes to the combo level features to each part - tempo, transpose,
mode (how many voices per part), clock div, etc. But you can also then
go and make changes to the sounds - filter cutoff for the sound in part
1, or vca level for the sound in part 2, etc. These are the changes that
you normally save when you save a program in program mode. Some of the
basic sequencer parameters are found on both levels - temp/clock
division of the sequencer, for instance.
	
	Ok - So, suppose you've started to work this way.....I
discovered this when I wanted to mess around with an identical
program/sequence in 2 of the parts, and then start making changes to
various parameters. 
	
	Well, you've made a bunch of changes and it sounds really good,
or really bad (I sometimes like to save some of my most profoundly bad
stuff in case I ever get employed by the CIA), and you want to save some
of the program edits and sequencer changes. Well, you can't do it. There
is no way. The combo level stuff will save with the combo, but there is
no way to save the stuff that changes the sound itself, or anything to
do with specific steps of the sequencer, any modulations, etc...But
don't make the mistake of saving the combo, or you will lose everything
right there, except for the combo stuff - the programs you will save
will be the originals, not the edited versions.
	
	It's also a mistake when you're working this way to change any
of several parameters that give basic information about the structure of
that combo part. If you decide to use 2 voices in channel 2, for
instance, rather than 1, that will reinitialize all of the programs in
all of the parts to their settings when they were first loaded into the
combo part. Same with calling up another sound for part 4.
	
	These issues effect  your enjoyment only to the degree to which
you want to edit and save your work in combo mode. 
	
	
	
	
	"HI,
	 
	I am thinking of getting a PEK and this thread is worrying me
slightly.
	 
	Can I check I have this correct in my head. 
	 
	If I have a combo with 4 different programs, I fiddle with the
knobs to set everythng up as I like, then I cannot save this work?
	 
	Also If I load a different program I loose all my changes?
	 
	Have I got this correct?
	 
	Thanks
	 
	Andy"
	 
	
	 
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________________________________

\u201cSo if I was to load 4 separate programs into the combo and then edit the sequence of each one and save the combo that would work ok?

It’s only when I use the same program in the 4 parts and edit them that I cannot save correctly?

Have I got this right?

Cheers

Andy\u201d

No unfortunately, if that were the case it would be easy to work around it. If you load 4 different programs into combo mode, and then, say change the first sequence in part 1 to have last step 9, and then edit the destination of the second sequence in part 2 to influence lp cutoff, and then you saved the combo, or changed the number of voices taken by part 2, you would lose those changes.

From: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gene Schwartz
Sent: 27 February 2006 23:03
To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Evolver] Re: Per/pek - saving programs edited in combo mode

When you\u2019re in combo mode, there are 2 kinds of changes you can make, if you look at it with this distinction in mind. You can make changes to the combo level features to each part \u2013 tempo, transpose, mode (how many voices per part), clock div, etc. But you can also then go and make changes to the sounds \u2013 filter cutoff for the sound in part 1, or vca level for the sound in part 2, etc. These are the changes that you normally save when you save a program in program mode. Some of the basic sequencer parameters are found on both levels \u2013 temp/clock division of the sequencer, for instance.

Ok \u2013 So, suppose you217;ve started to work this way.....I discovered this when I wanted to mess around with an identical program/sequence in 2 of the parts, and then start making changes to various parameters.

Well, you\u2019ve made a bunch of changes and it sounds really good, or really bad (I sometimes like to save some of my most profoundly bad stuff in case I ever get employed by the CIA), and you want to save some of the program edits and sequencer changes. Well, you can\u2019t do it. There is no way. The combo level stuff will save with the combo, but there is no way to save the stuff that changes the sound itself, or anything to do with specific steps of the sequencer, any modulations, etc...But don\u2019t make the mistake of saving the combo, or you will lose everything right there, except for the combo stuff 211; the programs you will save will be the originals, not the edited versions.

It\u2019s also a mistake when you\u2019re working this way to change any of several parameters that give basic information about the structure of that combo part. If you decide to use 2 voices in channel 2, for instance, rather than 1, that will reinitialize all of the programs in all of the parts to their settings when they were first loaded into the combo part. Same with calling up another sound for part 4.

These issues effect your enjoyment only to the degree to which you want to edit and save your work in combo mode.




\u201cHI,

I am thinking of getting a PEK and this thread is worrying me slightly.

Can I check I have this correct in my head.
;
If I have a combo with 4 different programs, I fiddle with the knobs to set everythng up as I like, then I cannot save this work?

Also If I load a different program I loose all my changes?

Have I got this correct?

Thanks

Andy\u201d



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In combo mode you can save only combo parameters. If you want to edit a 
sound program that is used in a combo you have to leave combo mode, go to 
program mode and edit and save there.

I made a lot of those combos with independent sequences and didn't miss the 
possibility to save in combo mode much because would have gone to program 
mode for edits anyway because of better survey over the single sound.

But that's a question of one's personal workflow and if Gene misses it, it's 
fair enough to complain.

Stefan

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andrew Capon" <acapon@...>
To: <DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 7:34 AM
Subject: RE: [Evolver] Re: Per/pek - saving programs edited in combo mode


So if I was to load 4 separate programs into the combo and then edit the
sequence of each one and save the combo that would work ok?



It's only when I use the same program in the 4 parts and edit them that
I cannot save correctly?



Have I got this right?



Cheers



Andy



________________________________

From: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Gene Schwartz
Sent: 27 February 2006 23:03
To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Evolver] Re: Per/pek - saving programs edited in combo
mode



When you're in combo mode, there are 2 kinds of changes you can
make, if you look at it with this distinction in mind. You can make
changes to the combo level features to each part - tempo, transpose,
mode (how many voices per part), clock div, etc. But you can also then
go and make changes to the sounds - filter cutoff for the sound in part
1, or vca level for the sound in part 2, etc. These are the changes that
you normally save when you save a program in program mode. Some of the
basic sequencer parameters are found on both levels - temp/clock
division of the sequencer, for instance.

Ok - So, suppose you've started to work this way.....I
discovered this when I wanted to mess around with an identical
program/sequence in 2 of the parts, and then start making changes to
various parameters.

Well, you've made a bunch of changes and it sounds really good,
or really bad (I sometimes like to save some of my most profoundly bad
stuff in case I ever get employed by the CIA), and you want to save some
of the program edits and sequencer changes. Well, you can't do it. There
is no way. The combo level stuff will save with the combo, but there is
no way to save the stuff that changes the sound itself, or anything to
do with specific steps of the sequencer, any modulations, etc...But
don't make the mistake of saving the combo, or you will lose everything
right there, except for the combo stuff - the programs you will save
will be the originals, not the edited versions.

It's also a mistake when you're working this way to change any
of several parameters that give basic information about the structure of
that combo part. If you decide to use 2 voices in channel 2, for
instance, rather than 1, that will reinitialize all of the programs in
all of the parts to their settings when they were first loaded into the
combo part. Same with calling up another sound for part 4.

These issues effect  your enjoyment only to the degree to which
you want to edit and save your work in combo mode.




"HI,

I am thinking of getting a PEK and this thread is worrying me
slightly.

Can I check I have this correct in my head.

If I have a combo with 4 different programs, I fiddle with the
knobs to set everythng up as I like, then I cannot save this work?

Also If I load a different program I loose all my changes?

Have I got this correct?

Thanks

Andy"



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________________________________

Hi Gene,

I will chime in to say that as a fellow evolverist I can understand
and relate to your position on this. 

I own only an original mono evolver. But from my standpoint, a big
attraction of upgrading to poly-something would be tweaking 4 parallel
sequences with different timbres and inflections, working in harmony.
It sounds like the limitation you mention makes this rather tricky.

Anyway, I am very happy with my evolver... but I hope you are not
feeling like a voice in the wilderness :).

cheers
Graeme



--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, Gene Schwartz <implode7@...> wrote:
>
> > Gene Schwartz <implode7@...> writes:
> >> I really like this instrument. I have room for one keyboard in
this apt -
> >> had I known about this limitation, would I have chosen the Andromeda
> >> instead? Yes. 
> > 
> > If a super-well-implemented multi-timbral mode is more important
to you
> > than the sound, you may be better off with a VA synth or rompler.
> > 
> 
> I didn't mean to suggest anything close to that. Obviously I'm
interested in
> the sound because I went out of my way to chose an instrument that
is partly
> analog and has much analog flavor. I don't think I can get that in a va.
> 
> We're not talking about a well implemented multitimbral mode - we're
> essential talking about it having one or not having one. If I had to
chose
> between the polyevolver and a va (that I know of), I'd chose the
> polyevolver. 
> 
> It always seems that on these lists, if you say that there is one
feature
> whose deficiency really impacts your use of an instrument, people
are always
> ready to suggest that maybe you should get another type of instrument
> altogether, or maybe take up juggling.
> 
> I also made the point that given the implementation, the monoevolver
seems
> like a much better deal.
> 
> In any case - if you don't think that this is an issue, that's perfectly
> cool. It is for me. I like the sound. I don't want a va. Anything
> contradictory there?
> 
> 
> > Something like the NL3 for instance, has a _far_ slicker, better
thought
> > out, and more solid multi-timbral mode than the poly-evolver, not to
> > mention more polyphony and a lot less weight.  The only problem is ...
> > it doesn't sound like an Evolver (though it has a rather nice sound of
> > its own).
> > 
> 
> I can't stand the nord sound. I don't want a Virus. Sorry. I don't
want to
> have to argue this point.
>

I'm not sure what you mean about the 'better survey over the single
sound'...if combo mode were fully implemented, you'd be able to quickly solo
a part, for instance. But, if you want to work with each part having a
sequencer active - OR, for instance, to take advantage of the fact that part
1 could send midi to part 2, it seems much preferable to edit in combo mode.

> In combo mode you can save only combo parameters. If you want to edit a
> sound program that is used in a combo you have to leave combo mode, go to
> program mode and edit and save there.
> 
> I made a lot of those combos with independent sequences and didn't miss the
> possibility to save in combo mode much because would have gone to program
> mode for edits anyway because of better survey over the single sound.
> 
> But that's a question of one's personal workflow and if Gene misses it, it's
> fair enough to complain.
> 
> Stefan
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andrew Capon" <acapon@...>
> To: <DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 7:34 AM
> Subject: RE: [Evolver] Re: Per/pek - saving programs edited in combo mode
> 
> 
> So if I was to load 4 separate programs into the combo and then edit the
> sequence of each one and save the combo that would work ok?
> 
> 
> 
> It's only when I use the same program in the 4 parts and edit them that
> I cannot save correctly?
> 
> 
> 
> Have I got this right?
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers
> 
> 
> 
> Andy
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Gene Schwartz
> Sent: 27 February 2006 23:03
> To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Evolver] Re: Per/pek - saving programs edited in combo
> mode
> 
> 
> 
> When you're in combo mode, there are 2 kinds of changes you can
> make, if you look at it with this distinction in mind. You can make
> changes to the combo level features to each part - tempo, transpose,
> mode (how many voices per part), clock div, etc. But you can also then
> go and make changes to the sounds - filter cutoff for the sound in part
> 1, or vca level for the sound in part 2, etc. These are the changes that
> you normally save when you save a program in program mode. Some of the
> basic sequencer parameters are found on both levels - temp/clock
> division of the sequencer, for instance.
> 
> Ok - So, suppose you've started to work this way.....I
> discovered this when I wanted to mess around with an identical
> program/sequence in 2 of the parts, and then start making changes to
> various parameters.
> 
> Well, you've made a bunch of changes and it sounds really good,
> or really bad (I sometimes like to save some of my most profoundly bad
> stuff in case I ever get employed by the CIA), and you want to save some
> of the program edits and sequencer changes. Well, you can't do it. There
> is no way. The combo level stuff will save with the combo, but there is
> no way to save the stuff that changes the sound itself, or anything to
> do with specific steps of the sequencer, any modulations, etc...But
> don't make the mistake of saving the combo, or you will lose everything
> right there, except for the combo stuff - the programs you will save
> will be the originals, not the edited versions.
> 
> It's also a mistake when you're working this way to change any
> of several parameters that give basic information about the structure of
> that combo part. If you decide to use 2 voices in channel 2, for
> instance, rather than 1, that will reinitialize all of the programs in
> all of the parts to their settings when they were first loaded into the
> combo part. Same with calling up another sound for part 4.
> 
> These issues effect  your enjoyment only to the degree to which
> you want to edit and save your work in combo mode.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "HI,
> 
> I am thinking of getting a PEK and this thread is worrying me
> slightly.
> 
> Can I check I have this correct in my head.
> 
> If I have a combo with 4 different programs, I fiddle with the
> knobs to set everythng up as I like, then I cannot save this work?
> 
> Also If I load a different program I loose all my changes?
> 
> Have I got this correct?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Andy"
> 
> 
> 
> SPONSORED LINKS
> 
> Music sampler
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Music+sampler&w1=Music+sampler&w2=S
> ampler&w3=Electronic&c=3&s=48&.sig=YFqLpXfqiiiHRS79J5cgOg>
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> ampler&w3=Electronic&c=3&s=48&.sig=YFqLpXfqiiiHRS79J5cgOg>    Sampler
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sampler&w1=Music+sampler&w2=Sampler
> &w3=Electronic&c=3&s=48&.sig=5EGM49Pcz8mmRT1HsoAYSA>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sampler&w1=Music+sampler&w2=Sampler
> &w3=Electronic&c=3&s=48&.sig=5EGM49Pcz8mmRT1HsoAYSA>    Electronic
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Electronic&w1=Music+sampler&w2=Samp
> ler&w3=Electronic&c=3&s=48&.sig=iTnEaB8YLpryl7EVEvtdgA>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Electronic&w1=Music+sampler&w2=Samp
> ler&w3=Electronic&c=3&s=48&.sig=iTnEaB8YLpryl7EVEvtdgA>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> 
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> 
> * Visit your group "DSI_Evolver
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSI_Evolver>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSI_Evolver>  " on the web.
> *
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> * DSI_Evolver-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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> of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SPONSORED LINKS
> 
> Music sampler
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Music+sampler&w1=Music+sampler&w2=S
> ampler&w3=Electronic&c=3&s=48&.sig=YFqLpXfqiiiHRS79J5cgOg>
> 
> Sampler
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sampler&w1=Music+sampler&w2=Sampler
> &w3=Electronic&c=3&s=48&.sig=5EGM49Pcz8mmRT1HsoAYSA>
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> ler&w3=Electronic&c=3&s=48&.sig=iTnEaB8YLpryl7EVEvtdgA>
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> 
> 
> 
> * Visit your group "DSI_Evolver
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSI_Evolver> " on the web.
> 
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

> Hi Gene,
> 
> I will chime in to say that as a fellow evolverist I can understand
> and relate to your position on this.
> 
> I own only an original mono evolver. But from my standpoint, a big
> attraction of upgrading to poly-something would be tweaking 4 parallel
> sequences with different timbres and inflections, working in harmony.
> It sounds like the limitation you mention makes this rather tricky.
> 
> Anyway, I am very happy with my evolver... but I hope you are not
> feeling like a voice in the wilderness :).
> 
> cheers
> Graeme
> 


Well, I'm a little surprised that more people weren't expecting this
feature. I am getting the impression that nothing is going to happen with
it...

I don¹t dislike the pek at all. With room for 1 keyboard though, I'm not
sure that it's the one I wanted given this unexpected limitation. I'm also
not sure why I needed to have spent $1000 more for the pek over the mek.

> 
> 
> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, Gene Schwartz <implode7@...> wrote:
>> 
>>> Gene Schwartz <implode7@...> writes:
>>>> I really like this instrument. I have room for one keyboard in
> this apt -
>>>> had I known about this limitation, would I have chosen the Andromeda
>>>> instead? Yes. 
>>> 
>>> If a super-well-implemented multi-timbral mode is more important
> to you
>>> than the sound, you may be better off with a VA synth or rompler.
>>> 
>> 
>> I didn't mean to suggest anything close to that. Obviously I'm
> interested in
>> the sound because I went out of my way to chose an instrument that
> is partly
>> analog and has much analog flavor. I don't think I can get that in a va.
>> 
>> We're not talking about a well implemented multitimbral mode - we're
>> essential talking about it having one or not having one. If I had to
> chose
>> between the polyevolver and a va (that I know of), I'd chose the
>> polyevolver. 
>> 
>> It always seems that on these lists, if you say that there is one
> feature
>> whose deficiency really impacts your use of an instrument, people
> are always
>> ready to suggest that maybe you should get another type of instrument
>> altogether, or maybe take up juggling.
>> 
>> I also made the point that given the implementation, the monoevolver
> seems
>> like a much better deal.
>> 
>> In any case - if you don't think that this is an issue, that's perfectly
>> cool. It is for me. I like the sound. I don't want a va. Anything
>> contradictory there?
>> 
>> 
>>> Something like the NL3 for instance, has a _far_ slicker, better
> thought
>>> out, and more solid multi-timbral mode than the poly-evolver, not to
>>> mention more polyphony and a lot less weight.  The only problem is ...
>>> it doesn't sound like an Evolver (though it has a rather nice sound of
>>> its own).
>>> 
>> 
>> I can't stand the nord sound. I don't want a Virus. Sorry. I don't
> want to
>> have to argue this point.
>>

Hi to all,

There is a now update just placed on our site for PolyEcolver OSX V
1.5.3. It should address any problems in the Combo Mode that you 
might have.

www.soundtower.com/evolver

If you have any questions or comments, please send us a note at
evolver@..., and we will get back to you as soon as we 
can.

Thank you for your feedback and support; it is always appreciated.

Derek
SoundTower Help Desk
www.soundtower.com


--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, Gene Schwartz <implode7@...> 
wrote:
>
> First few hours on a polyevolver, though I've owned an Evolver 
before.
> Similarly - I've used the soundtower editor before, but I'm new to 
combo
> mode, both on the poly, and in the editor.
> 
> So, maybe I've misinterpreted how this is all supposed to work.
> 
> Shouldn't I be able to, in combo mode, set up 4 instruments in 
mono mode,
> and play different sequences on each one?
> 
> Can someone tell me how to do that in the editor. I just get the 
strangest
> behavior - the number of the programs not matching the 
descriptions, the
> programs seemingly not matching the chosen instrument in the combo 
menu -
> essentially it just seems to be totally flaky.
> 
> Has anyone ever set this up?
> 
> I'm using os x 10.4.4, which may be an issue. But I thought it was 
only
> potentially midi that was a problem...
> 
> In any case - I am ready to sell it (bought it used and can 
probably get my
> money back), and just get a PEK. My preference would be to find 
out that
> this is just user error, and that the editor does bear some 
semblance to
> functional.
>

I just bought one of thess keyboards, so haven't gotten that deep.  
This problem sounds rather limiting.  We should request Dave to fix 
it. 

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "rgmccaig" <rgmccaig@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Gene,
> 
> I will chime in to say that as a fellow evolverist I can understand
> and relate to your position on this. 
> 
> I own only an original mono evolver. But from my standpoint, a big
> attraction of upgrading to poly-something would be tweaking 4 
parallel
> sequences with different timbres and inflections, working in 
harmony.
> It sounds like the limitation you mention makes this rather tricky.
> 
> Anyway, I am very happy with my evolver... but I hope you are not
> feeling like a voice in the wilderness :).
> 
> cheers
> Graeme
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, Gene Schwartz <implode7@> wrote:
> >
> > > Gene Schwartz <implode7@> writes:
> > >> I really like this instrument. I have room for one keyboard in
> this apt -
> > >> had I known about this limitation, would I have chosen the 
Andromeda
> > >> instead? Yes. 
> > > 
> > > If a super-well-implemented multi-timbral mode is more important
> to you
> > > than the sound, you may be better off with a VA synth or 
rompler.
> > > 
> > 
> > I didn't mean to suggest anything close to that. Obviously I'm
> interested in
> > the sound because I went out of my way to chose an instrument that
> is partly
> > analog and has much analog flavor. I don't think I can get that 
in a va.
> > 
> > We're not talking about a well implemented multitimbral mode - 
we're
> > essential talking about it having one or not having one. If I had 
to
> chose
> > between the polyevolver and a va (that I know of), I'd chose the
> > polyevolver. 
> > 
> > It always seems that on these lists, if you say that there is one
> feature
> > whose deficiency really impacts your use of an instrument, people
> are always
> > ready to suggest that maybe you should get another type of 
instrument
> > altogether, or maybe take up juggling.
> > 
> > I also made the point that given the implementation, the 
monoevolver
> seems
> > like a much better deal.
> > 
> > In any case - if you don't think that this is an issue, that's 
perfectly
> > cool. It is for me. I like the sound. I don't want a va. Anything
> > contradictory there?
> > 
> > 
> > > Something like the NL3 for instance, has a _far_ slicker, better
> thought
> > > out, and more solid multi-timbral mode than the poly-evolver, 
not to
> > > mention more polyphony and a lot less weight.  The only problem 
is ...
> > > it doesn't sound like an Evolver (though it has a rather nice 
sound of

> > > its own).
> > > 
> > 
> > I can't stand the nord sound. I don't want a Virus. Sorry. I don't
> want to
> > have to argue this point.
> >
>

The response from Dave (and from most users of the synth) did not make me confident that this would be fixed, at least in the foreseeable future. I therefore am exchanging mine for an Andromeda.

I ran into another issue that I found a bit disorienting. There are now quite a few midi controllers dedicated to specific programming parameters, which is good. the problem is that if you are actually using them from a sequencer, every time the synth receives one of these controllers, the focus on the display changes to the parameter that's being sent. So, it is not easy (to say the least) to see what you're doing if you're trying to edit another parameter as the sequence is playing.

In any case - it's a fine synth - but not for the way that I wanted to use it.

 -------------- Original message ----------------------

From: "barzindaragahi" <barzind@...>
> I just bought one of thess keyboards, so haven't gotten that deep.  
> This problem sounds rather limiting.  We should request Dave to fix 
> it. 
> 
> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "rgmccaig" <rgmccaig@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Gene,
> > 
> > I will chime in to say that as a fellow evolverist I can understand
> > and relate to your position on this. 
> > 
> > I own only an original mono evolver. But from my standpoint, a big
> > attraction of upgrading to poly-something would be tweaking 4 
> parallel
> > sequences with different timbres and inflections, working in 
> harmony.
> > It sounds like the limitation you mention makes this rather tricky.
> > 
> > Anyway, I am very happy with my evolver... but I hope you are not
> > feeling like a voice in the wilderness :).
> > 
> > cheers
> > Graeme
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, Gene Schwartz <implode7@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Gene Schwartz <implode7@> writes:
> > > >> I really like this instrument. I have room for one keyboard in
> > this apt -
> > > >> had I known about this limitation, would I have chosen the 
> Andromeda
> > > >> instead? Yes. 
> > > > 
> > > > If a super-well-implemented multi-timbral mode is more important
> > to you
> > > > than the sound, you may be better off with a VA synth or 
> rompler.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > I didn't mean to suggest anything close to that. Obviously I'm
> > interested in
> > > the sound because I went out of my way to chose an instrument that
> > is partly
> > > analog and has much analog flavor. I don't think I can get that 
> in a va.
> > > 
> > > We're not talking about a well implemented multitimbral mode - 
> we're
> > > essential talking about it having one or not having one. If I had 
> to
> > chose
> > > between the polyevolver and a va (that I know of), I'd chose the
> > > polyevolver. 
> > > 
> > > It always seems that on these lists, if you say that there is one
> > feature
> > > whose deficiency really impacts your use of an instrument, people
> > are always
> > > ready to suggest that maybe you should get another type of 
> instrument
> > > altogether, or maybe take up juggling.
> > > 
> > > I also made the point that given the implementation, the 
> monoevolver
> > seems
> > > like a much better deal.
> > > 
> > > In any case - if you don't think that this is an issue, that's 
> perfectly
> > > cool. It is for me. I like the sound. I don't want a va. Anything
> > > contradictory there?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > Something like the NL3 for instance, has a _far_ slicker, better
> > thought
> > > > out, and more solid multi-timbral mode than the poly-evolver, 
> not to
> > > > mention more polyphony and a lot less weight.  The only problem 
> is ...
> > > > it doesn't sound like an Evolver (though it has a rather nice 
> sound of
> > > > its own).
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > I can't stand the nord sound. I don't want a Virus. Sorry. I don't
> > want to
> > > have to argue this point.
> > >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
>