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Thread

DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-02-07 by wasteking1

After a few emails to DSI over the past year i have been informed by their tech department that there will be NO 4 voice INTERNAL upgrade to the PEK. When i proposed the idea, They had previously said it sounded like a good idea. It would have been a great factory sponsored mod or option when buying a new one. Imagine a choice--an evover with one, four or eight voices....
  Instead, they are reintroducing the PE rack-- which while it would expensively add 4 voices--- is NOT a compact ,portable, userfriendly solution.certainly not good for gigging.  
Look inside your PEK -- there is plenty of room for more circuitry. the case is almost half empty. look how small the voice boards are.    
oh well,  Dave knows best.
 [but even those old 80's polysynths had at least 6 voices and even his Prophet 08  has 8] {competing synths have even more --except, of course,  that ripoff mono minimoog)   Perhaps if enough people demanded it  they would respond.

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-02-07 by tzachi keinan

I also thought that making an external 4 voice expansion, similar to something the size of a Tetra would also be nicer than the old PER. If dave managed to develop a 4 voice Mopho in a casing about the same size - i bet he can do something the size of a desktop evolver (slightly bigger) with 4 voices in it.
 
Just my 2 cents

--- On Sun, 2/7/10, wasteking1 <wasteking1@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: wasteking1 <wasteking1@...>
Subject: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"
To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 3:25 PM

After a few emails to DSI over the past year i have been informed by their tech department that there will be NO 4 voice INTERNAL upgrade to the PEK. When i proposed the idea, They had previously said it sounded like a good idea. It would have been a great factory sponsored mod or option when buying a new one. Imagine a choice--an evover with one, four or eight voices....
Instead, they are reintroducing the PE rack-- which while it would expensively add 4 voices--- is NOT a compact ,portable, userfriendly solution.certainly not good for gigging. 
Look inside your PEK -- there is plenty of room for more circuitry. the case is almost half empty. look how small the voice boards are. 
oh well, Dave knows best.
[but even those old 80's polysynths had at least 6 voices and even his Prophet 08 has 8] {competing synths have even more --except, of course, that ripoff mono minimoog) Perhaps if enough people demanded it they would respond.

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-02-26 by meatballfulton

Reissuing the PER is a lot less costly than designing a new product.  I'm sure DSI is running on a tight leash.

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-02-26 by wasteking1

but there is NOTHING convienient about carrying around an otherwise unnecessary rack unit.with a clunky  second power supply.
  
How come the PEK pot version could be so quickly adapted? how many people asked DSI for it or ws it just Dave's idea? How many people would like 8 voices???? (even my dinosaur 80's synths have 6)


--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "meatballfulton" <hubcapbrian@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> Reissuing the PER is a lot less costly than designing a new product.  I'm sure DSI is running on a tight leash.
>

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-03-09 by meatballfulton

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "wasteking1" <wasteking1@...> wrote:
> How come the PEK pot version could be so quickly adapted? 
> how many people asked DSI for it or ws it just Dave's idea? 

Based on all the complaints about encoders I've seen in Evo discussions, it must have been a LOT of people asking for it. Dave obviously likes the encoders (as do I).

> How many people would like 8 voices???? (even my dinosaur 80's 
> synths have 6)

Poly expansion leaves the option up to the end user, the people who want the extra voices can buy them. While it's not as convenient as having all 8 voices onboard the PEK, MEK and DEVO users can also make use of it.

I've heard similar complaints about hooking up a Mopho keyboard to a Tetra, and the Mopho keyboard hasn't even been released yet!!!

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-03-11 by wasteking1

a seperate expansion unit sounds fine in theory,maybe good for the hiding-in-the-studio-types  but is of little live  convienience,  and totally kills easy  portability--- as i said before--LOOK INSIDE THE PEK--- its HALF EMPTY--- plenty of room for more voice circuits   --- even on a modular  plug-in/add on  basis.  (2 at a time?) even  just 6 voices would keep me from having a dropout problem while simply playing one program with two hands.and certainly it limits what kind things you can do with partial 'unison' voice allocations. .  Obviously DSI considered 8  fine for the  CHEAPER Prophet---why not their 'flagship' model?  Its a real shortcoming in the marketplace.

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "meatballfulton" <hubcapbrian@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "wasteking1" <wasteking1@> wrote:
> > How come the PEK pot version could be so quickly adapted? 
> > how many people asked DSI for it or ws it just Dave's idea? 
> 
> Based on all the complaints about encoders I've seen in Evo discussions, it must have been a LOT of people asking for it. Dave obviously likes the encoders (as do I).
> 
> > How many people would like 8 voices???? (even my dinosaur 80's 
> > synths have 6)
> 
> Poly expansion leaves the option up to the end user, the people who want the extra voices can buy them. While it's not as convenient as having all 8 voices onboard the PEK, MEK and DEVO users can also make use of it.
> 
> I've heard similar complaints about hooking up a Mopho keyboard to a Tetra, and the Mopho keyboard hasn't even been released yet!!!
>

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-03-11 by tzachi keinan

Even your  dinosaur 80's synths have 6 voices, indeed. 
But do they have a hybrid osc generator, 4 lfo's, envelope generators, 4 4x16 step squencers, a complex modulation matrix, 3 syncable delays, feedback, hack (... should i go on...?).
So yeah, it's short on polyphony - but don't compare it to your 80's dinosaur synths, since it beats them on all the other departments.

--- On Thu, 3/11/10, wasteking1 <wasteking1@...> wrote:

From: wasteking1 <wasteking1@...>
Subject: Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"
To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, March 11, 2010, 3:00 PM

a seperate expansion unit sounds fine in theory,maybe good for the hiding-in-the- studio-types but is of little live convienience, and totally kills easy portability- -- as i said before--LOOK INSIDE THE PEK--- its HALF EMPTY--- plenty of room for more voice circuits --- even on a modular plug-in/add on basis. (2 at a time?) even just 6 voices would keep me from having a dropout problem while simply playing one program with two hands.and certainly it limits what kind things you can do with partial 'unison' voice allocations. . Obviously DSI considered 8 fine for the CHEAPER Prophet---why not their 'flagship' model? Its a real shortcoming in the marketplace.

--- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com, "meatballfulton" <hubcapbrian@ ...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com, "wasteking1" <wasteking1@ > wrote:
> > How come the PEK pot version could be so quickly adapted? 
> > how many people asked DSI for it or ws it just Dave's idea? 
> 
> Based on all the complaints about encoders I've seen in Evo discussions, it must have been a LOT of people asking for it. Dave obviously likes the encoders (as do I).
> 
> > How many people would like 8 voices???? (even my dinosaur 80's 
> > synths have 6)
> 
> Poly expansion leaves the option up to the end user, the people who want the extra voices can buy them. While it's not as convenient as having all 8 voices onboard the PEK, MEK and DEVO users can also make use of it.
> 
> I've heard similar complaints about hooking up a Mopho keyboard to a Tetra, and the Mopho keyboard hasn't even been released yet!!!
>

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-03-11 by X + Z = 0

easy portabillity,
if you can bring along a pek touring or playing live, i guess there is 
still room in the car/van  to bring along a per, its not that a pek fits 
in a suitcase and easy bring a long on tour or something when traveling 
with a bus or train etc
>  
>
> Even your  dinosaur 80's synths have 6 voices, indeed.
> But do they have a hybrid osc generator, 4 lfo's, envelope generators, 
> 4 4x16 step squencers, a complex modulation matrix, 3 syncable delays, 
> feedback, hack (... should i go on...?).
> So yeah, it's short on polyphony - but don't compare it to your 80's 
> dinosaur synths, since it beats them on all the other departments.
>
> --- On *Thu, 3/11/10, wasteking1 /<wasteking1@...>/* wrote:
>
>
>     From: wasteking1 <wasteking1@...>
>     Subject: Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"
>     To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
>     Date: Thursday, March 11, 2010, 3:00 PM
>
>      
>     a seperate expansion unit sounds fine in theory,maybe good for the
>     hiding-in-the- studio-types but is of little live convienience,
>     and totally kills easy portability- -- as i said before--LOOK
>     INSIDE THE PEK--- its HALF EMPTY--- plenty of room for more voice
>     circuits --- even on a modular plug-in/add on basis. (2 at a
>     time?) even just 6 voices would keep me from having a dropout
>     problem while simply playing one program with two hands.and
>     certainly it limits what kind things you can do with partial
>     'unison' voice allocations. . Obviously DSI considered 8 fine for
>     the CHEAPER Prophet---why not their 'flagship' model? Its a real
>     shortcoming in the marketplace.
>
>     --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com
>     <http://us.mc306.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com>,
>     "meatballfulton" <hubcapbrian@ ...> wrote:
>     >
>     > --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com
>     <http://us.mc306.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com>,
>     "wasteking1" <wasteking1@ > wrote:
>     > > How come the PEK pot version could be so quickly adapted?
>     > > how many people asked DSI for it or ws it just Dave's idea?
>     >
>     > Based on all the complaints about encoders I've seen in Evo
>     discussions, it must have been a LOT of people asking for it. Dave
>     obviously likes the encoders (as do I).
>     >
>     > > How many people would like 8 voices???? (even my dinosaur 80's
>     > > synths have 6)
>     >
>     > Poly expansion leaves the option up to the end user, the people
>     who want the extra voices can buy them. While it's not as
>     convenient as having all 8 voices onboard the PEK, MEK and DEVO
>     users can also make use of it.
>     >
>     > I've heard similar complaints about hooking up a Mopho keyboard
>     to a Tetra, and the Mopho keyboard hasn't even been released yet!!!
>     >
>
>
> 


-- 
http://xpluszequalszero.blogspot.com/
http://www.myspace.com/wravenveerendegebarstehoofden

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-03-11 by wasteking1

i never said the new features werent good, but to shortchange on polyphony negates a lot of the other improvements. im glad to hear you so zealously defend the PEK's shortcomings--- im not afraid to admit them  and  maybe get the company to improve it-- the thing is NOT  perfect and certainly can be improved. But i suppose every corporation  appreciates its YES-men followers.

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, tzachi keinan <zahush76@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> Even yourÂ  dinosaur 80's synths have 6 voices, indeed. 
> But do they have a hybrid osc generator, 4 lfo's, envelope generators, 4 4x16 step squencers, a complex modulation matrix, 3 syncable delays, feedback, hack (... should i go on...?).
> So yeah, it's short on polyphony - but don't compare it to your 80's dinosaur synths, since it beats them on all the other departments.
> 
> --- On Thu, 3/11/10, wasteking1 <wasteking1@...> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: wasteking1 <wasteking1@...>
> Subject: Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"
> To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, March 11, 2010, 3:00 PM
> 
> 
> Â  
> 
> 
> 
> a seperate expansion unit sounds fine in theory,maybe good for the hiding-in-the- studio-types but is of little live convienience, and totally kills easy portability- -- as i said before--LOOK INSIDE THE PEK--- its HALF EMPTY--- plenty of room for more voice circuits --- even on a modular plug-in/add on basis. (2 at a time?) even just 6 voices would keep me from having a dropout problem while simply playing one program with two hands.and certainly it limits what kind things you can do with partial 'unison' voice allocations. . Obviously DSI considered 8 fine for the CHEAPER Prophet---why not their 'flagship' model? Its a real shortcoming in the marketplace.
> 
> --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com, "meatballfulton" <hubcapbrian@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com, "wasteking1" <wasteking1@ > wrote:
> > > How come the PEK pot version could be so quickly adapted? 
> > > how many people asked DSI for it or ws it just Dave's idea? 
> > 
> > Based on all the complaints about encoders I've seen in Evo discussions, it must have been a LOT of people asking for it. Dave obviously likes the encoders (as do I).
> > 
> > > How many people would like 8 voices???? (even my dinosaur 80's 
> > > synths have 6)
> > 
> > Poly expansion leaves the option up to the end user, the people who want the extra voices can buy them. While it's not as convenient as having all 8 voices onboard the PEK, MEK and DEVO users can also make use of it.
> > 
> > I've heard similar complaints about hooking up a Mopho keyboard to a Tetra, and the Mopho keyboard hasn't even been released yet!!!
> >
>

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-03-11 by wasteking1

to-X+Z--
yes you can always carry more equipment ,and plug in more wires, and need more outlets, and  buy more cases---- yes, that is certainly desireable. why just carry it all in one?  how unprofessional....

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, X + Z = 0 <xpluszequalszero@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> easy portabillity,
> if you can bring along a pek touring or playing live, i guess there is 
> still room in the car/van  to bring along a per, its not that a pek fits 
> in a suitcase and easy bring a long on tour or something when traveling 
> with a bus or train etc
> >  
> >
> > Even your  dinosaur 80's synths have 6 voices, indeed.
> > But do they have a hybrid osc generator, 4 lfo's, envelope generators, 
> > 4 4x16 step squencers, a complex modulation matrix, 3 syncable delays, 
> > feedback, hack (... should i go on...?).
> > So yeah, it's short on polyphony - but don't compare it to your 80's 
> > dinosaur synths, since it beats them on all the other departments.
> >
> > --- On *Thu, 3/11/10, wasteking1 /<wasteking1@...>/* wrote:
> >
> >
> >     From: wasteking1 <wasteking1@...>
> >     Subject: Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"
> >     To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> >     Date: Thursday, March 11, 2010, 3:00 PM
> >
> >      
> >     a seperate expansion unit sounds fine in theory,maybe good for the
> >     hiding-in-the- studio-types but is of little live convienience,
> >     and totally kills easy portability- -- as i said before--LOOK
> >     INSIDE THE PEK--- its HALF EMPTY--- plenty of room for more voice
> >     circuits --- even on a modular plug-in/add on basis. (2 at a
> >     time?) even just 6 voices would keep me from having a dropout
> >     problem while simply playing one program with two hands.and
> >     certainly it limits what kind things you can do with partial
> >     'unison' voice allocations. . Obviously DSI considered 8 fine for
> >     the CHEAPER Prophet---why not their 'flagship' model? Its a real
> >     shortcoming in the marketplace.
> >
> >     --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com
> >     <http://us.mc306.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com>,
> >     "meatballfulton" <hubcapbrian@ ...> wrote:
> >     >
> >     > --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com
> >     <http://us.mc306.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com>,
> >     "wasteking1" <wasteking1@ > wrote:
> >     > > How come the PEK pot version could be so quickly adapted?
> >     > > how many people asked DSI for it or ws it just Dave's idea?
> >     >
> >     > Based on all the complaints about encoders I've seen in Evo
> >     discussions, it must have been a LOT of people asking for it. Dave
> >     obviously likes the encoders (as do I).
> >     >
> >     > > How many people would like 8 voices???? (even my dinosaur 80's
> >     > > synths have 6)
> >     >
> >     > Poly expansion leaves the option up to the end user, the people
> >     who want the extra voices can buy them. While it's not as
> >     convenient as having all 8 voices onboard the PEK, MEK and DEVO
> >     users can also make use of it.
> >     >
> >     > I've heard similar complaints about hooking up a Mopho keyboard
> >     to a Tetra, and the Mopho keyboard hasn't even been released yet!!!
> >     >
> >
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://xpluszequalszero.blogspot.com/
> http://www.myspace.com/wravenveerendegebarstehoofden
>

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-03-11 by X + Z = 0

what i say is i don't see why you would say a pek is a portable 
instrument, to me protable is at least easy bring along by foot or 
traviling with train or a bus when touring, and hence if you use a car, 
bet you have room for a per, you may walk a bit more to unload, maybe 
you should consider a laptop if its all too much
>
> to-X+Z--
> yes you can always carry more equipment ,and plug in more wires, and 
> need more outlets, and buy more cases---- yes, that is certainly 
> desireable. why just carry it all in one? how unprofessional....
>
> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com>, X + Z = 0 
> <xpluszequalszero@...> wrote:
> >
> > easy portabillity,
> > if you can bring along a pek touring or playing live, i guess there is
> > still room in the car/van to bring along a per, its not that a pek fits
> > in a suitcase and easy bring a long on tour or something when traveling
> > with a bus or train etc
> > >
> > >
> > > Even your dinosaur 80's synths have 6 voices, indeed.
> > > But do they have a hybrid osc generator, 4 lfo's, envelope 
> generators,
> > > 4 4x16 step squencers, a complex modulation matrix, 3 syncable 
> delays,
> > > feedback, hack (... should i go on...?).
> > > So yeah, it's short on polyphony - but don't compare it to your 80's
> > > dinosaur synths, since it beats them on all the other departments.
> > >
> > > --- On *Thu, 3/11/10, wasteking1 /<wasteking1@...>/* wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: wasteking1 <wasteking1@...>
> > > Subject: Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"
> > > To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Date: Thursday, March 11, 2010, 3:00 PM
> > >
> > >
> > > a seperate expansion unit sounds fine in theory,maybe good for the
> > > hiding-in-the- studio-types but is of little live convienience,
> > > and totally kills easy portability- -- as i said before--LOOK
> > > INSIDE THE PEK--- its HALF EMPTY--- plenty of room for more voice
> > > circuits --- even on a modular plug-in/add on basis. (2 at a
> > > time?) even just 6 voices would keep me from having a dropout
> > > problem while simply playing one program with two hands.and
> > > certainly it limits what kind things you can do with partial
> > > 'unison' voice allocations. . Obviously DSI considered 8 fine for
> > > the CHEAPER Prophet---why not their 'flagship' model? Its a real
> > > shortcoming in the marketplace.
> > >
> > > --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com
> > > 
> <http://us.mc306.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com 
> <http://us.mc306.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com>>,
> > > "meatballfulton" <hubcapbrian@ ...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com
> > > 
> <http://us.mc306.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com 
> <http://us.mc306.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com>>,
> > > "wasteking1" <wasteking1@ > wrote:
> > > > > How come the PEK pot version could be so quickly adapted?
> > > > > how many people asked DSI for it or ws it just Dave's idea?
> > > >
> > > > Based on all the complaints about encoders I've seen in Evo
> > > discussions, it must have been a LOT of people asking for it. Dave
> > > obviously likes the encoders (as do I).
> > > >
> > > > > How many people would like 8 voices???? (even my dinosaur 80's
> > > > > synths have 6)
> > > >
> > > > Poly expansion leaves the option up to the end user, the people
> > > who want the extra voices can buy them. While it's not as
> > > convenient as having all 8 voices onboard the PEK, MEK and DEVO
> > > users can also make use of it.
> > > >
> > > > I've heard similar complaints about hooking up a Mopho keyboard
> > > to a Tetra, and the Mopho keyboard hasn't even been released yet!!!
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://xpluszequalszero.blogspot.com/ 
> <http://xpluszequalszero.blogspot.com/>
> > http://www.myspace.com/wravenveerendegebarstehoofden 
> <http://www.myspace.com/wravenveerendegebarstehoofden>
> >
>
> 


-- 
http://xpluszequalszero.blogspot.com/
http://www.myspace.com/wravenveerendegebarstehoofden

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-03-11 by wasteking1

X+Y,   
the PEK is pretty much the average 61 key size---and is also suprisingly lightweight-- i put it in a basic keyboard case, which has a handle---no problem. its portable. 
So why dont you unscrew the 4 simple screws and open the lid and look inside--- its not going to hurt it--
see how much empty space is in that PEK--and you can see just how small the 4 voice PC board is (its clearly labeled) ....that is most of my point.
 you can easily fit another 4 voice  pc board in it.     why carry more crap ???????

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, X + Z = 0 <xpluszequalszero@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> what i say is i don't see why you would say a pek is a portable 
> instrument, to me protable is at least easy bring along by foot or 
> traviling with train or a bus when touring, and hence if you use a car, 
> bet you have room for a per, you may walk a bit more to unload, maybe 
> you should consider a laptop if its all too much
> >
> > to-X+Z--
> > yes you can always carry more equipment ,and plug in more wires, and 
> > need more outlets, and buy more cases---- yes, that is certainly 
> > desireable. why just carry it all in one? how unprofessional....
> >
> > --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com 
> > <mailto:DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com>, X + Z = 0 
> > <xpluszequalszero@> wrote:
> > >
> > > easy portabillity,
> > > if you can bring along a pek touring or playing live, i guess there is
> > > still room in the car/van to bring along a per, its not that a pek fits
> > > in a suitcase and easy bring a long on tour or something when traveling
> > > with a bus or train etc
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Even your dinosaur 80's synths have 6 voices, indeed.
> > > > But do they have a hybrid osc generator, 4 lfo's, envelope 
> > generators,
> > > > 4 4x16 step squencers, a complex modulation matrix, 3 syncable 
> > delays,
> > > > feedback, hack (... should i go on...?).
> > > > So yeah, it's short on polyphony - but don't compare it to your 80's
> > > > dinosaur synths, since it beats them on all the other departments.
> > > >
> > > > --- On *Thu, 3/11/10, wasteking1 /<wasteking1@>/* wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: wasteking1 <wasteking1@>
> > > > Subject: Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"
> > > > To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Date: Thursday, March 11, 2010, 3:00 PM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > a seperate expansion unit sounds fine in theory,maybe good for the
> > > > hiding-in-the- studio-types but is of little live convienience,
> > > > and totally kills easy portability- -- as i said before--LOOK
> > > > INSIDE THE PEK--- its HALF EMPTY--- plenty of room for more voice
> > > > circuits --- even on a modular plug-in/add on basis. (2 at a
> > > > time?) even just 6 voices would keep me from having a dropout
> > > > problem while simply playing one program with two hands.and
> > > > certainly it limits what kind things you can do with partial
> > > > 'unison' voice allocations. . Obviously DSI considered 8 fine for
> > > > the CHEAPER Prophet---why not their 'flagship' model? Its a real
> > > > shortcoming in the marketplace.
> > > >
> > > > --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > 
> > <http://us.mc306.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com 
> > <http://us.mc306.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com>>,
> > > > "meatballfulton" <hubcapbrian@ ...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > 
> > <http://us.mc306.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com 
> > <http://us.mc306.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com>>,
> > > > "wasteking1" <wasteking1@ > wrote:
> > > > > > How come the PEK pot version could be so quickly adapted?
> > > > > > how many people asked DSI for it or ws it just Dave's idea?
> > > > >
> > > > > Based on all the complaints about encoders I've seen in Evo
> > > > discussions, it must have been a LOT of people asking for it. Dave
> > > > obviously likes the encoders (as do I).
> > > > >
> > > > > > How many people would like 8 voices???? (even my dinosaur 80's
> > > > > > synths have 6)
> > > > >
> > > > > Poly expansion leaves the option up to the end user, the people
> > > > who want the extra voices can buy them. While it's not as
> > > > convenient as having all 8 voices onboard the PEK, MEK and DEVO
> > > > users can also make use of it.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've heard similar complaints about hooking up a Mopho keyboard
> > > > to a Tetra, and the Mopho keyboard hasn't even been released yet!!!
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://xpluszequalszero.blogspot.com/ 
> > <http://xpluszequalszero.blogspot.com/>
> > > http://www.myspace.com/wravenveerendegebarstehoofden 
> > <http://www.myspace.com/wravenveerendegebarstehoofden>
> > >
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://xpluszequalszero.blogspot.com/
> http://www.myspace.com/wravenveerendegebarstehoofden
>

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-03-11 by em

For the first few years of owning my PEK I yearned for more voices. For my playing, 4 voices is not enough. If I use it as a 4 voice mono synth, fine its great. But as a poly synth, its basically not usable. So I emailed DSI asking about all the extra space in the PEK and if there was some way to put in another 4 voices. The answer was no. 

The claim was that most people don't need/want the extra voices and if they do, there is the PER. Like most of you, I see the extra space in the PEK as prime real estate for building in another voice board.

About a month ago I got my hands on PER. Chaining with the PEK works great! Its amazing how seamless it is. But having that extra rack and cabling is a pain in the ass. 

Its possible to build in the board from the PER into the PEK but it would take a lot of work. At the moment, for me, its much less work to simply connect up the PER. But I will tell you, for me, that the PEK+PER combo completely transform the instrument into something playable! As I said, as a poly synth its severely crippled with only 4 voices. It makes me think, "What was Dave Smith thinking??" To me its like releasing a computer with no way to get files into or out of it. Adding a PER is like adding an optical writer to said computer!

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "wasteking1" <wasteking1@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
>  X+Y,   
> the PEK is pretty much the average 61 key size---and is also suprisingly lightweight-- i put it in a basic keyboard case, which has a handle---no problem. its portable. 
> So why dont you unscrew the 4 simple screws and open the lid and look inside--- its not going to hurt it--
> see how much empty space is in that PEK--and you can see just how small the 4 voice PC board is (its clearly labeled) ....that is most of my point.
>  you can easily fit another 4 voice  pc board in it.     why carry more crap ???????
> 
> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, X + Z = 0 <xpluszequalszero@> wrote:
> >
> > what i say is i don't see why you would say a pek is a portable 
> > instrument, to me protable is at least easy bring along by foot or 
> > traviling with train or a bus when touring, and hence if you use a car, 
> > bet you have room for a per, you may walk a bit more to unload, maybe 
> > you should consider a laptop if its all too much
> > >
> > > to-X+Z--
> > > yes you can always carry more equipment ,and plug in more wires, and 
> > > need more outlets, and buy more cases---- yes, that is certainly 
> > > desireable. why just carry it all in one? how unprofessional....
> > >
> > > --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com 
> > > <mailto:DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com>, X + Z = 0 
> > > <xpluszequalszero@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > easy portabillity,
> > > > if you can bring along a pek touring or playing live, i guess there is
> > > > still room in the car/van to bring along a per, its not that a pek fits
> > > > in a suitcase and easy bring a long on tour or something when traveling
> > > > with a bus or train etc
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Even your dinosaur 80's synths have 6 voices, indeed.
> > > > > But do they have a hybrid osc generator, 4 lfo's, envelope 
> > > generators,
> > > > > 4 4x16 step squencers, a complex modulation matrix, 3 syncable 
> > > delays,
> > > > > feedback, hack (... should i go on...?).
> > > > > So yeah, it's short on polyphony - but don't compare it to your 80's
> > > > > dinosaur synths, since it beats them on all the other departments.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- On *Thu, 3/11/10, wasteking1 /<wasteking1@>/* wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > From: wasteking1 <wasteking1@>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"
> > > > > To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > Date: Thursday, March 11, 2010, 3:00 PM
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > a seperate expansion unit sounds fine in theory,maybe good for the
> > > > > hiding-in-the- studio-types but is of little live convienience,
> > > > > and totally kills easy portability- -- as i said before--LOOK
> > > > > INSIDE THE PEK--- its HALF EMPTY--- plenty of room for more voice
> > > > > circuits --- even on a modular plug-in/add on basis. (2 at a
> > > > > time?) even just 6 voices would keep me from having a dropout
> > > > > problem while simply playing one program with two hands.and
> > > > > certainly it limits what kind things you can do with partial
> > > > > 'unison' voice allocations. . Obviously DSI considered 8 fine for
> > > > > the CHEAPER Prophet---why not their 'flagship' model? Its a real
> > > > > shortcoming in the marketplace.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > > 
> > > <http://us.mc306.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com 
> > > <http://us.mc306.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com>>,
> > > > > "meatballfulton" <hubcapbrian@ ...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > > 
> > > <http://us.mc306.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com 
> > > <http://us.mc306.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com>>,
> > > > > "wasteking1" <wasteking1@ > wrote:
> > > > > > > How come the PEK pot version could be so quickly adapted?
> > > > > > > how many people asked DSI for it or ws it just Dave's idea?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Based on all the complaints about encoders I've seen in Evo
> > > > > discussions, it must have been a LOT of people asking for it. Dave
> > > > > obviously likes the encoders (as do I).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > How many people would like 8 voices???? (even my dinosaur 80's
> > > > > > > synths have 6)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Poly expansion leaves the option up to the end user, the people
> > > > > who want the extra voices can buy them. While it's not as
> > > > > convenient as having all 8 voices onboard the PEK, MEK and DEVO
> > > > > users can also make use of it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've heard similar complaints about hooking up a Mopho keyboard
> > > > > to a Tetra, and the Mopho keyboard hasn't even been released yet!!!
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > http://xpluszequalszero.blogspot.com/ 
> > > <http://xpluszequalszero.blogspot.com/>
> > > > http://www.myspace.com/wravenveerendegebarstehoofden 
> > > <http://www.myspace.com/wravenveerendegebarstehoofden>
> > > >
> > >
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > http://xpluszequalszero.blogspot.com/
> > http://www.myspace.com/wravenveerendegebarstehoofden
> >
>

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-03-11 by wasteking1

maybe Dave only plays with one hand on the keys----
 [but some players can use two...]

yes, thanks for confirming the HUGE amount of available space in the PEK. What i dont understand is why so many people here are so righteously defending the paltry 4 voice design.I personally dont appreciate my notes dropping out of a chord, nor carrying extra equpiment.
 

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "em" <musiclists@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> For the first few years of owning my PEK I yearned for more voices. For my playing, 4 voices is not enough. If I use it as a 4 voice mono synth, fine its great. But as a poly synth, its basically not usable. So I emailed DSI asking about all the extra space in the PEK and if there was some way to put in another 4 voices. The answer was no. 
> 
> The claim was that most people don't need/want the extra voices and if they do, there is the PER. Like most of you, I see the extra space in the PEK as prime real estate for building in another voice board.
> 
> About a month ago I got my hands on PER. Chaining with the PEK works great! Its amazing how seamless it is. But having that extra rack and cabling is a pain in the ass. 
> 
> Its possible to build in the board from the PER into the PEK but it would take a lot of work. At the moment, for me, its much less work to simply connect up the PER. But I will tell you, for me, that the PEK+PER combo completely transform the instrument into something playable! As I said, as a poly synth its severely crippled with only 4 voices. It makes me think, "What was Dave Smith thinking??" To me its like releasing a computer with no way to get files into or out of it. Adding a PER is like adding an optical writer to said computer!
> 
> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "wasteking1" <wasteking1@> wrote:
> >
> >  X+Y,   
> > the PEK is pretty much the average 61 key size---and is also suprisingly lightweight-- i put it in a basic keyboard case, which has a handle---no problem. its portable. 
> > So why dont you unscrew the 4 simple screws and open the lid and look inside--- its not going to hurt it--
> > see how much empty space is in that PEK--and you can see just how small the 4 voice PC board is (its clearly labeled) ....that is most of my point.
> >  you can easily fit another 4 voice  pc board in it.     why carry more crap ???????
> > 
> > --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, X + Z = 0 <xpluszequalszero@> wrote:
> > >
> > > what i say is i don't see why you would say a pek is a portable 
> > > instrument, to me protable is at least easy bring along by foot or 
> > > traviling with train or a bus when touring, and hence if you use a car, 
> > > bet you have room for a per, you may walk a bit more to unload, maybe 
> > > you should consider a laptop if its all too much
> > > >
> > > > to-X+Z--
> > > > yes you can always carry more equipment ,and plug in more wires, and 
> > > > need more outlets, and buy more cases---- yes, that is certainly 
> > > > desireable. why just carry it all in one? how unprofessional....
> > > >
> > > > --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com 
> > > > <mailto:DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com>, X + Z = 0 
> > > > <xpluszequalszero@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > easy portabillity,
> > > > > if you can bring along a pek touring or playing live, i guess there is
> > > > > still room in the car/van to bring along a per, its not that a pek fits
> > > > > in a suitcase and easy bring a long on tour or something when traveling
> > > > > with a bus or train etc
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Even your dinosaur 80's synths have 6 voices, indeed.
> > > > > > But do they have a hybrid osc generator, 4 lfo's, envelope 
> > > > generators,
> > > > > > 4 4x16 step squencers, a complex modulation matrix, 3 syncable 
> > > > delays,
> > > > > > feedback, hack (... should i go on...?).
> > > > > > So yeah, it's short on polyphony - but don't compare it to your 80's
> > > > > > dinosaur synths, since it beats them on all the other departments.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- On *Thu, 3/11/10, wasteking1 /<wasteking1@>/* wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: wasteking1 <wasteking1@>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"
> > > > > > To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > Date: Thursday, March 11, 2010, 3:00 PM
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > a seperate expansion unit sounds fine in theory,maybe good for the
> > > > > > hiding-in-the- studio-types but is of little live convienience,
> > > > > > and totally kills easy portability- -- as i said before--LOOK
> > > > > > INSIDE THE PEK--- its HALF EMPTY--- plenty of room for more voice
> > > > > > circuits --- even on a modular plug-in/add on basis. (2 at a
> > > > > > time?) even just 6 voices would keep me from having a dropout
> > > > > > problem while simply playing one program with two hands.and
> > > > > > certainly it limits what kind things you can do with partial
> > > > > > 'unison' voice allocations. . Obviously DSI considered 8 fine for
> > > > > > the CHEAPER Prophet---why not their 'flagship' model? Its a real
> > > > > > shortcoming in the marketplace.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > > > 
> > > > <http://us.mc306.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com 
> > > > <http://us.mc306.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com>>,
> > > > > > "meatballfulton" <hubcapbrian@ ...> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > > > 
> > > > <http://us.mc306.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com 
> > > > <http://us.mc306.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com>>,
> > > > > > "wasteking1" <wasteking1@ > wrote:
> > > > > > > > How come the PEK pot version could be so quickly adapted?
> > > > > > > > how many people asked DSI for it or ws it just Dave's idea?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Based on all the complaints about encoders I've seen in Evo
> > > > > > discussions, it must have been a LOT of people asking for it. Dave
> > > > > > obviously likes the encoders (as do I).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > How many people would like 8 voices???? (even my dinosaur 80's
> > > > > > > > synths have 6)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Poly expansion leaves the option up to the end user, the people
> > > > > > who want the extra voices can buy them. While it's not as
> > > > > > convenient as having all 8 voices onboard the PEK, MEK and DEVO
> > > > > > users can also make use of it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've heard similar complaints about hooking up a Mopho keyboard
> > > > > > to a Tetra, and the Mopho keyboard hasn't even been released yet!!!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > http://xpluszequalszero.blogspot.com/ 
> > > > <http://xpluszequalszero.blogspot.com/>
> > > > > http://www.myspace.com/wravenveerendegebarstehoofden 
> > > > <http://www.myspace.com/wravenveerendegebarstehoofden>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > http://xpluszequalszero.blogspot.com/
> > > http://www.myspace.com/wravenveerendegebarstehoofden
> > >
> >
>

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-03-17 by meatballfulton

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "em" <musiclists@...> wrote:
> As I said, as a poly synth its severely crippled with only 
> 4 voices. It makes me think, "What was Dave Smith thinking??" 

Maybe he was thinking he didn't want to charge $4000 for the PEK!!!

As far as 4 voices being "crippled" that's just because we're spoiled today by synths with up to 128 voices available. There weren't lots of complaints about 4, 5 and 6 voice polysynths back in the 70s and 80s. 

The glass is half full, not half empty.

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-03-17 by wasteking1

meatball-----i wouldnt be complaining about 6 voices--- you can at least play a triad chord with each hand---(i realize this has to do with  actual live 'pianoplaying' and not step sequencing.) or even not have a voice drop out when just using 2 fingers of both hands with long release sounds. . 

meanwhile the emphasis is on HALF - in 'Half-full'. why not 'all-full'? i want 'all-full'  ['half a loaf' is not considered good.] 

i would certainly have paid some more for the 8 voices--- its probably worth another $800[ maybe 1000] --- since all it is is part of another PC board. I see NO other companies bragging about their new delux 4 voice synth--- the average new PEK is $2400 (used 1400-1750)  so that would make an 8 voice model  $3200-3400. Hey it supposed to be  top-of-the-line, right???? [a new Waldorf Q+ is $3900.] 
as i said --make it an OPTION or an UPGRADE-- it would NOT  be hard for the company to do. and you can keep yours at only 4 voices because you love it so much that way .   I would pay for 8.



--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "meatballfulton" <hubcapbrian@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "em" <musiclists@> wrote:
> > As I said, as a poly synth its severely crippled with only 
> > 4 voices. It makes me think, "What was Dave Smith thinking??" 
> 
> Maybe he was thinking he didn't want to charge $4000 for the PEK!!!
> 
> As far as 4 voices being "crippled" that's just because we're spoiled today by synths with up to 128 voices available. There weren't lots of complaints about 4, 5 and 6 voice polysynths back in the 70s and 80s. 
> 
> The glass is half full, not half empty.
>

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-03-17 by em

yes, i wouldn't say i am "spoiled" by multi-voice instruments. hell, i play my minimoog and CS15 more often than not, and what do they have? one voice. but with a poly synth, i want to be able to play at least a triad and two bass notes and ideally more. i'm often playing 2 or 3 notes on my left and 3 or 4 on my right - impossible with a stock PEK. 

so if the PEK was relegated as a 4 voice mono synth, great! its awesome for that. but i also want to use it as a poly synth afterall, the voice architecture makes for some great pads and punches. but 4 voices just doesn't cut it.

until i got a PER (original version) i didn't really use the PEK that much unless i was using it as a 4 voice mono synth. but now with the PER i am playing more than any other synth in my studio. so the extra 4 voice, for my use, transformed the instrument.

i bought the PEK for $2800 CAD and the PER was $1200 CAD used so $4000 which i think is fair for an 8 voice analogue poly synth with all the features it has.

would be nice if the PER were IN the PEK though.



--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "wasteking1" <wasteking1@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
>  meatball-----i wouldnt be complaining about 6 voices--- you can at least play a triad chord with each hand---(i realize this has to do with  actual live 'pianoplaying' and not step sequencing.) or even not have a voice drop out when just using 2 fingers of both hands with long release sounds. . 
> 
> meanwhile the emphasis is on HALF - in 'Half-full'. why not 'all-full'? i want 'all-full'  ['half a loaf' is not considered good.] 
> 
> i would certainly have paid some more for the 8 voices--- its probably worth another $800[ maybe 1000] --- since all it is is part of another PC board. I see NO other companies bragging about their new delux 4 voice synth--- the average new PEK is $2400 (used 1400-1750)  so that would make an 8 voice model  $3200-3400. Hey it supposed to be  top-of-the-line, right???? [a new Waldorf Q+ is $3900.] 
> as i said --make it an OPTION or an UPGRADE-- it would NOT  be hard for the company to do. and you can keep yours at only 4 voices because you love it so much that way .   I would pay for 8.
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "meatballfulton" <hubcapbrian@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "em" <musiclists@> wrote:
> > > As I said, as a poly synth its severely crippled with only 
> > > 4 voices. It makes me think, "What was Dave Smith thinking??" 
> > 
> > Maybe he was thinking he didn't want to charge $4000 for the PEK!!!
> > 
> > As far as 4 voices being "crippled" that's just because we're spoiled today by synths with up to 128 voices available. There weren't lots of complaints about 4, 5 and 6 voice polysynths back in the 70s and 80s. 
> > 
> > The glass is half full, not half empty.
> >
>

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-03-23 by meatballfulton

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "wasteking1" <wasteking1@...> wrote:
> you can keep yours at only 4 voices because you love it so 
> much that way 

Actually I'm still at one voice...I own the desktop Evo.

To reiterate, the PER has a wider market, namely ALL Evo owners. A 4-voice upgrade for the PEK would only sell to PEK users. With limited funds to manufacture and market, the reissue of the PER makes more business sense.

Ditto for a Tetra keyboard....the Mopho keys plus a Tetra will do the job without adding the cost (and risk) of adding yet another product to the line.

I've been an engineer for 30 years and find that many people underestimate the costs of developing new products.

Re: DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-03-24 by RobbieR

I've been an engineer for 30 years and find that many people underestimate the costs of developing new products.
>
yes, we do! But we wish that wasn't the case, as all of us are searching for "dream" instruments.

-RR

Re: DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-03-25 by motorzot

That's easy:

Step 1:  Order a synthesizers.com catalog

Step 2:  Marry into money.  A lot of money.

I have the catalog.  My wife won't let me carry out step 2.

In all seriousness:

I doubt anyone is going to claim that the PEK's voice count is a blessing.  Most are just being realistic about what a small design/manufacturing company building an expensive niche product in a shakey economy while up against some huge corporate competitors can accomplish by next week.

Or to put it another way:  there were people bitching about the Mini-Moog when it came out, too.  Now, it's God's own keyboard.

Go figure.


--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "RobbieR" <KungFuGirlsClub@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
>  I've been an engineer for 30 years and find that many people underestimate the costs of developing new products.
> >
> yes, we do! But we wish that wasn't the case, as all of us are searching for "dream" instruments.
> 
> -RR
>

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-03-26 by meatballfulton

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "wasteking1" <wasteking1@...> wrote:
>i suppose every corporation  appreciates its YES-men followers.

I'm not a yes man, I'm just realistic about what products DSI (or any mfr) can choose to offer. 

They have responded to so many customer request already: PEK and MEK, Mopho, pots instead of encoders, Tetra, PER reissue, etc. It's not like they don't listen!

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-03-28 by wasteking1

ADDING VOICES TO THE PEK IS NOT  THAT HARD---its already set up to do it through the polychain connection--- all they need to do is link another 4-voice board  up in line with the existing one INTERNALLY--rather than having you buy a whole new external rack unit. (and provide a more powerful power cord/adapter cause it would need more amps.)  this idea is NOT a 'new invention', its the same stuff DSI has already, just set up as a factory internal 'splice' , I dont see the big deal , 
     I also dont understand all the APOLOGIES  on this forum for DSI's  design limitations,  rather than suport for an easy improvement that requires  actually very little  R+D. (the pot-mod  wasnt much R+D either). Im suprised this crowd here is so complacent. Why not ask for something better. Something fairly easy , that would make this unit more useable OUT OF THE STUDIO--where carrying extra stuff is a drag.I assume the more peole demand it, the more they might respond.  Thanks for the negative energy on this one. [And if cost was a problem, Look at MOOG ---as if that MONOsynth is a 'good deal'--- its 50% more than a PEK and they sell .]

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "meatballfulton" <hubcapbrian@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "wasteking1" <wasteking1@> wrote:
> >i suppose every corporation  appreciates its YES-men followers.
> 
> I'm not a yes man, I'm just realistic about what products DSI (or any mfr) can choose to offer. 
> 
> They have responded to so many customer request already: PEK and MEK, Mopho, pots instead of encoders, Tetra, PER reissue, etc. It's not like they don't listen!
>

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-03-29 by em

haha! i am going to try hard not to call you names in the spirit of the "nice internet" but really... ok well are those your expectations of other synth manufacturers? do you think that its reasonable to demand Roland or Yamaha to change some aspect of an existing product to meet your individual needs? what about other manufacturers such as cars, appliances, etc? if you do, then you clearly have an exaggerated sense of entitlement and thats great for you! just please keep it off this list.

DSI has been VERY responsive to its user-base, much more so than most manufacturers, especially those in the synth world. its not ideal for some people (like me) to have to have an external box for extra voices, but at least a product exists for us to do it. and when that product was discontinued, DSI listened and re-issued it. do you have any idea how much it costs and the risks involved in releasing a product? i guess you don't. thats why most manufacturers dont even bother going beyond the initial release and saving features for a new distinct product.

so in my opinion DSI has raised the bar dramatically in terms of responding to its customers, quickly and with focus. take your whining elsewhere wasteking - your nick truly exemplifies the kind of waste you've been in your critique of this fine company.

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "wasteking1" <wasteking1@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> ADDING VOICES TO THE PEK IS NOT  THAT HARD---its already set up to do it through the polychain connection--- all they need to do is link another 4-voice board  up in line with the existing one INTERNALLY--rather than having you buy a whole new external rack unit. (and provide a more powerful power cord/adapter cause it would need more amps.)  this idea is NOT a 'new invention', its the same stuff DSI has already, just set up as a factory internal 'splice' , I dont see the big deal , 
>      I also dont understand all the APOLOGIES  on this forum for DSI's  design limitations,  rather than suport for an easy improvement that requires  actually very little  R+D. (the pot-mod  wasnt much R+D either). Im suprised this crowd here is so complacent. Why not ask for something better. Something fairly easy , that would make this unit more useable OUT OF THE STUDIO--where carrying extra stuff is a drag.I assume the more peole demand it, the more they might respond.  Thanks for the negative energy on this one. [And if cost was a problem, Look at MOOG ---as if that MONOsynth is a 'good deal'--- its 50% more than a PEK and they sell .]
> 
> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "meatballfulton" <hubcapbrian@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "wasteking1" <wasteking1@> wrote:
> > >i suppose every corporation  appreciates its YES-men followers.
> > 
> > I'm not a yes man, I'm just realistic about what products DSI (or any mfr) can choose to offer. 
> > 
> > They have responded to so many customer request already: PEK and MEK, Mopho, pots instead of encoders, Tetra, PER reissue, etc. It's not like they don't listen!
> >
>

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-03-29 by tzachi keinan

Well, dsi may have re-issued the PER after hearing the demand (i was waiting for one myself), but they have also "upgraded" its price. It costs 250$ more than it did before they discontinued it. That's a shame.
The new PEK costs only 200$ more than it did - but at least for a reason: the new pot edition. 
Why does the new PER cost more? What demands does that meet? 
There's an option to add 4 voices to the PEK by an external unit. That's fine. Whatever. But now it costs more? Why?

--- On Mon, 3/29/10, em <musiclists@theplexus.com> wrote:

From: em <musiclists@...>
Subject: Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"
To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, March 29, 2010, 5:00 AM

haha! i am going to try hard not to call you names in the spirit of the "nice internet" but really... ok well are those your expectations of other synth manufacturers? do you think that its reasonable to demand Roland or Yamaha to change some aspect of an existing product to meet your individual needs? what about other manufacturers such as cars, appliances, etc? if you do, then you clearly have an exaggerated sense of entitlement and thats great for you! just please keep it off this list.

DSI has been VERY responsive to its user-base, much more so than most manufacturers, especially those in the synth world. its not ideal for some people (like me) to have to have an external box for extra voices, but at least a product exists for us to do it. and when that product was discontinued, DSI listened and re-issued it. do you have any idea how much it costs and the risks involved in releasing a product? i guess you don't. thats why most manufacturers dont even bother going beyond the initial release and saving features for a new distinct product.

so in my opinion DSI has raised the bar dramatically in terms of responding to its customers, quickly and with focus. take your whining elsewhere wasteking - your nick truly exemplifies the kind of waste you've been in your critique of this fine company.

--- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com, "wasteking1" <wasteking1@ ...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> ADDING VOICES TO THE PEK IS NOT THAT HARD---its already set up to do it through the polychain connection-- - all they need to do is link another 4-voice board up in line with the existing one INTERNALLY-- rather than having you buy a whole new external rack unit. (and provide a more powerful power cord/adapter cause it would need more amps.) this idea is NOT a 'new invention', its the same stuff DSI has already, just set up as a factory internal 'splice' , I dont see the big deal , 
> I also dont understand all the APOLOGIES on this forum for DSI's design limitations, rather than suport for an easy improvement that requires actually very little R+D. (the pot-mod wasnt much R+D either). Im suprised this crowd here is so complacent. Why not ask for something better. Something fairly easy , that would make this unit more useable OUT OF THE STUDIO--where carrying extra stuff is a drag.I assume the more peole demand it, the more they might respond. Thanks for the negative energy on this one. [And if cost was a problem, Look at MOOG ---as if that MONOsynth is a 'good deal'--- its 50% more than a PEK and they sell .]
> 
> --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com, "meatballfulton" <hubcapbrian@ > wrote:
> >
> > --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com, "wasteking1" <wasteking1@ > wrote:
> > >i suppose every corporation appreciates its YES-men followers.
> > 
> > I'm not a yes man, I'm just realistic about what products DSI (or any mfr) can choose to offer. 
> > 
> > They have responded to so many customer request already: PEK and MEK, Mopho, pots instead of encoders, Tetra, PER reissue, etc. It's not like they don't listen!
> >
>

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-03-29 by James Elliott

This topic has gotten extremely old. 

For one, not all on this list are "complacent" regarding DSI and their business practices. I know many over the course of years have asked for PEK bug fixes and an internal voice expansion to no avail, myself included.

Two, DSI is no different from any other company. Personally, I think the only thing they do well is customer support regarding hardware issues. They haven't raised the bar to any new heights, they're merely holding on to it like most others. They put a product out for as cheap as possible for their price range. Please don't think for a second that there are any real fancy bells and whistles in the evolver. You could argue that the curtis chips are, but quite frankly they are a (cost saving) gimmick more than anything else.

Three, there is absolutely nothing wrong with asking a company for specific products & features for new products or requesting upgrades, bug fixes, etc for existing products. Assuming that that is off limits puts you into the senseless consumer category. It's funny because I just got flamed on the Metric Halo list for asking for an optional upgrade for their 2882, one which would entail minimal development costs and which would help bring in money from previous customers who might not purchase their new products. I've gotten the same response there as some are here, "You're a moron, how dare you ask this highly lauded, untouchable, infallible company for added features!!!! You should be lucky for what you have, no one else could have done as good of a job as they did. Crawl back in your cave to rot with your outdated audio interface and come back out when you are ready to shell out $4000 for their replacement product, never mind the fact that it costs
 100% more than the product it is replacing and has features you don't want. You should be happy your 2882 still powers up for you!!"

Four, what makes anyone think that DSI is listening to their customers regarding the products they offer - ok, they made a poly version of the evolver and re-introduced the PER, so what? It made business sense for them to do it, they didn't do it as a favor, they knew it could be done cheaply and that there was a demand for it. Personally, looking back at the old sequential circuits catalog, they are following the same formula they used in the past. Polysynth, Monosynth, repeat. They USED to sell novel products, when computer controlled surfaces, patch storage, vector synthesis, onboard sequencing, and cheap polyphony was unheard of. However, really the only thing they are doing 'different' now is the form factor - i.e. tabletop and rack units. The only thing 'novel' they have made is the plain old evolver. However, that really isn't all that new in that it borrowed from other SCI designs. The PEK was just a simple, "let's make a poly version of the
 evolver for as cheap as possible. And while we are at it, let's throw in some 'features' which will make customers want to purchase more voices - how about by only having them feature the minimum amount of voices to 'satisfy' the poly requirement but not enough to be really useful".

-Jim





________________________________
From: em <musiclists@...>
To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, March 28, 2010 9:00:41 PM
Subject: Re: [DSI Synths] DSI -  "no to  4 voice PEK  upgrade"

  
haha! i am going to try hard not to call you names in the spirit of the "nice internet" but really... ok well are those your expectations of other synth manufacturers? do you think that its reasonable to demand Roland or Yamaha to change some aspect of an existing product to meet your individual needs? what about other manufacturers such as cars, appliances, etc? if you do, then you clearly have an exaggerated sense of entitlement and thats great for you! just please keep it off this list.

DSI has been VERY responsive to its user-base, much more so than most manufacturers, especially those in the synth world. its not ideal for some people (like me) to have to have an external box for extra voices, but at least a product exists for us to do it. and when that product was discontinued, DSI listened and re-issued it. do you have any idea how much it costs and the risks involved in releasing a product? i guess you don't. thats why most manufacturers dont even bother going beyond the initial release and saving features for a new distinct product.

so in my opinion DSI has raised the bar dramatically in terms of responding to its customers, quickly and with focus. take your whining elsewhere wasteking - your nick truly exemplifies the kind of waste you've been in your critique of this fine company.

--- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com, "wasteking1" <wasteking1@ ...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> ADDING VOICES TO THE PEK IS NOT  THAT HARD---its already set up to do it through the polychain connection-- - all they need to do is link another 4-voice board  up in line with the existing one INTERNALLY-- rather than having you buy a whole new external rack unit. (and provide a more powerful power cord/adapter cause it would need more amps.)  this idea is NOT a 'new invention', its the same stuff DSI has already, just set up as a factory internal 'splice' , I dont see the big deal , 
>      I also dont understand all the APOLOGIES  on this forum for DSI's  design limitations,  rather than suport for an easy improvement that requires  actually very little  R+D. (the pot-mod  wasnt much R+D either). Im suprised this crowd here is so complacent. Why not ask for something better. Something fairly easy , that would make this unit more useable OUT OF THE STUDIO--where carrying extra stuff is a drag.I assume the more peole demand it, the more they might respond.  Thanks for the negative energy on this one. [And if cost was a problem, Look at MOOG ---as if that MONOsynth is a 'good deal'--- its 50% more than a PEK and they sell .]
> 
> --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com, "meatballfulton" <hubcapbrian@ > wrote:
> >
> > --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com, "wasteking1" <wasteking1@ > wrote:
> > >i suppose every corporation  appreciates its YES-men followers.
> > 
> > I'm not a yes man, I'm just realistic about what products DSI (or any mfr) can choose to offer. 
> > 
> > They have responded to so many customer request already: PEK and MEK, Mopho, pots instead of encoders, Tetra, PER reissue, etc. It's not like they don't listen!
> >
>

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-03-29 by James Elliott

Not only that, why does the pot upgrade cost $400 for the PEK when the new PEK costs $200 more than the old one?

I think that people are looking at the $400 upgrade for the most part as an insult. I'd rather sell my PEK and take a huge loss on what I paid for it now and take that money (plus what I didn't spend on the upgrade) and buy something else with it then pay that ridiculous price for the upgrade to have a PEK that actually works (albeit with buggy software) to just take a loss on it in the future. $200 for the upgrade, yes - $400 for the upgrade, they must be smoking crack.





________________________________
From: tzachi keinan <zahush76@...>
To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, March 28, 2010 10:32:42 PM
Subject: Re: [DSI Synths] DSI -  "no to  4 voice PEK  upgrade"

  
Well, dsi may have re-issued the PER after hearing the demand (i was waiting for one myself), but they have also "upgraded" its price. It costs 250$ more than it did before they discontinued it. That's a shame.
The new PEK costs only 200$ more than it did - but at least for a reason: the new pot edition. 
Why does the new PER cost more? What demands does that meet? 
There's an option to add 4 voices to the PEK by an external unit. That's fine. Whatever. But now it costs more? Why?

--- On Mon, 3/29/10, em <musiclists@theplexu s.com> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>From: em <musiclists@theplexu s.com>
>Subject: Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"
>To: DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com
>Date: Monday, March 29, 2010, 5:00 AM
>
>
>  
>haha! i am going to try hard not to call you names in the spirit of the "nice internet" but really... ok well are those your expectations of other synth manufacturers? do you think that its reasonable to demand Roland or Yamaha to change some aspect of an existing product to meet your individual needs? what about other manufacturers such as cars, appliances, etc? if you do, then you clearly have an exaggerated sense of entitlement and thats great for you! just please keep it off this list.
>
>DSI has been VERY responsive to its user-base, much more so than most manufacturers, especially those in the synth world. its not ideal for some people (like me) to have to have an external box for extra voices, but at least a product exists for us to do it. and when that product was discontinued, DSI listened and re-issued it. do you have any idea how much it costs and the risks involved in releasing a product? i guess you don't. thats why most
> manufacturers dont even bother going beyond the initial release and saving features for a new distinct product.
>
>so in my opinion DSI has raised the bar dramatically in terms of responding to its customers, quickly and with focus. take your whining elsewhere wasteking - your nick truly exemplifies the kind of waste you've been in your critique of this fine company.
>
>--- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com, "wasteking1" <wasteking1@ ...> wrote:
>>
>> ADDING VOICES TO THE PEK IS NOT THAT HARD---its already set up to do it through the polychain connection-- - all they need to do is link another 4-voice board up in line with the existing one INTERNALLY-- rather than having you buy a whole new external rack unit. (and provide a more powerful power cord/adapter cause it
> would need more amps.) this idea is NOT a 'new invention', its the same stuff DSI has already, just set up as a factory internal 'splice' , I dont see the big deal , 
>> I also dont understand all the APOLOGIES on this forum for DSI's design limitations, rather than suport for an easy improvement that requires actually very little R+D. (the pot-mod wasnt much R+D either). Im suprised this crowd here is so complacent. Why not ask for something better. Something fairly easy , that would make this unit more useable OUT OF THE STUDIO--where carrying extra stuff is a drag.I assume the more peole demand it, the more they might respond. Thanks for the negative energy on this one. [And if cost was a problem, Look at MOOG ---as if that MONOsynth is a 'good deal'--- its 50% more than a PEK and they sell .]
>> 
>> --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com, "meatballfulton" <hubcapbrian@ > wrote:
>> >
>> > --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com, "wasteking1" <wasteking1@ > wrote:
>> > >i suppose every corporation appreciates its YES-men followers.
>> > 
>> > I'm not a yes man, I'm just realistic about what products DSI (or any mfr) can choose to offer. 
>> > 
>> > They have responded to so many customer request already: PEK and MEK, Mopho, pots instead of encoders, Tetra, PER reissue, etc. It's not like they don't listen!
>> >
>>
>
>

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-03-29 by Ravi Ivan Sharma

James, Tzachi and anyone else complaining:

Do you think that it is possible that the costs associated with opening up a PEK and replacing things would be more expensive than the cost of making a new PEK with the new knobs in a batch coming off an assembly line?

Have you priced taking in your PEK to a qualified repair shop, i.e. E.A.R.S. in NYC or the like and finding out how much it will be to replace the pots yourself? Wouldn't it be that only if it were far less expensive to do it that way, that you would be justifiably insulted by Dave Smith's price?

Why should the replacement be at a loss or no-profit to Dave Smith? Does the fact that one has a choice now, mean one was wrongfully deprived of a choice when one bought or didn't know what they were getting at the time? My PEKs encoders work fine.

Do you know that the new PEK costs $200 simply because of the new pots? And even it it is, couldn't it also be a function of a) overall costs, and b) manufacturer *choice* in how to price their product?

Why should overall costs, and manufacturer *choice* in how to price their product not apply to the reissued PER?

Are instrument makers not allowed to raise their prices, or choose what prices to charge?

If not, why not?

Ravi

On Mar 29, 2010, at 2:13 PM, James Elliott wrote:

Not only that, why does the pot upgrade cost $400 for the PEK when the new PEK costs $200 more than the old one?

I think that people are looking at the $400 upgrade for the most part as an insult. I'd rather sell my PEK and take a huge loss on what I paid for it now and take that money (plus what I didn't spend on the upgrade) and buy something else with it then pay that ridiculous price for the upgrade to have a PEK that actually works (albeit with buggy software) to just take a loss on it in the future. $200 for the upgrade, yes - $400 for the upgrade, they must be smoking crack.

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: tzachi keinan com>
To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, March 28, 2010 10:32:42 PM
Subject: Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

Well, dsi may have re-issued the PER after hearing the demand (i was waiting for one myself), but they have also "upgraded" its price. It costs 250$ more than it did before they discontinued it. That's a shame.

The new PEK costs only 200$ more than it did - but at least for a reason: the new pot edition.

Why does the new PER cost more? What demands does that meet?

There's an option to add 4 voices to the PEK by an external unit. That's fine. Whatever. But now it costs more? Why?

--- On Mon, 3/29/10, em s.com> wrote:

From: em s.com>
Subject: Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"
To: DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Monday, March 29, 2010, 5:00 AM

haha! i am going to try hard not to call you names in the spirit of the "nice internet" but really... ok well are those your expectations of other synth manufacturers? do you think that its reasonable to demand Roland or Yamaha to change some aspect of an existing product to meet your individual needs? what about other manufacturers such as cars, appliances, etc? if you do, then you clearly have an exaggerated sense of entitlement and thats great for you! just please keep it off this list.

DSI has been VERY responsive to its user-base, much more so than most manufacturers, especially those in the synth world. its not ideal for some people (like me) to have to have an external box for extra voices, but at least a product exists for us to do it. and when that product was discontinued, DSI listened and re-issued it. do you have any idea how much it costs and the risks involved in releasing a product? i guess you don't. thats why most manufacturers dont even bother going beyond the initial release and saving features for a new distinct product.

so in my opinion DSI has raised the bar dramatically in terms of responding to its customers, quickly and with focus. take your whining elsewhere wasteking - your nick truly exemplifies the kind of waste you've been in your critique of this fine company.

--- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com, "wasteking1" wrote:
>
> ADDING VOICES TO THE PEK IS NOT THAT HARD---its already set up to do it through the polychain connection-- - all they need to do is link another 4-voice board up in line with the existing one INTERNALLY-- rather than having you buy a whole new external rack unit. (and provide a more powerful power cord/adapter cause it would need more amps.) this idea is NOT a 'new invention', its the same stuff DSI has already, just set up as a factory internal 'splice' , I dont see the big deal ,
> I also dont understand all the APOLOGIES on this forum for DSI's design limitations, rather than suport for an easy improvement that requires actually very little R+D. (the pot-mod wasnt much R+D either). Im suprised this crowd here is so complacent. Why not ask for something better. Something fairly easy , that would make this unit more useable OUT OF THE STUDIO--where carrying extra stuff is a drag.I assume the more peole demand it, the more they might respond. Thanks for the negative energy on this one. [And if cost was a problem, Look at MOOG ---as if that MONOsynth is a 'good deal'--- its 50% more than a PEK and they sell .]
>
> --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com, "meatballfulton" wrote:
> >;
> > --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com, "wasteking1" wrote:
> > >i suppose every corporation appreciates its YES-men followers.
> >
> > I'm not a yes man, I'm just realistic about what products DSI (or any mfr) can choose to offer.
> >
> > They have responded to so many customer request already: PEK and MEK, Mopho, pots instead of encoders, Tetra, PER reissue, etc. It's not like they don't listen!
> >
>

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-03-29 by wasteking1

im still suprised at the number of DSI-Yes-men here, all so aplogetic for the poor company.  and dismissive of these valid criticisms of the PEK.  I have a number of complaints about the PEK, but the 4 voice issue  seemed to be the single biggest drawback to this synth in the marketplace, and its relatively easy to change. THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE THEIR FLAGSHIP MODEL-- even the Prophet 08 has 8 voices., and it isnt cost prohibitive.

 I think DSI is just concentrating on what they think is currently 'hip' in synths--little tweakable desktop units to play with a computer, [as if keyboard synths are too old school]. But then what is so new about MOOG? , and the prices on the Voyager are insane  for a monosynth-- still they sell.



--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Ivan Sharma <noision1@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> James, Tzachi and anyone else complaining:
> 
> Do you think that it is possible that the costs associated with opening up a PEK and replacing things would be more expensive than the cost of making a new PEK with the new knobs in a batch coming off an assembly line?
> 
> Have you priced taking in your PEK to a qualified repair shop, i.e. E.A.R.S. in NYC or the like and finding out how much it will be to replace the pots yourself? Wouldn't it be that only if it were far less expensive to do it that way, that you would be justifiably insulted by Dave Smith's price?
> 
> Why should the replacement be at a loss or no-profit to Dave Smith? Does the fact that one has a choice now, mean one was wrongfully deprived of a choice when one bought or didn't know what they were getting at the time? My PEKs encoders work fine.
> 
> Do you know that the new PEK costs $200 simply because of the new pots? And even it it is, couldn't it also be a function of a) overall costs, and b) manufacturer *choice* in how to price their product?
> 
> Why should  overall costs, and manufacturer *choice* in how to price their product not apply to the reissued PER?
> 
> Are instrument makers not allowed to raise their prices, or choose what prices to charge?
> 
> If not, why not?
> 
> Ravi
> 
> 
> On Mar 29, 2010, at 2:13 PM, James Elliott wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Not only that, why does the pot upgrade cost $400 for the PEK when the new PEK costs $200 more than the old one?
> > 
> > I think that people are looking at the $400 upgrade for the most part as an insult. I'd rather sell my PEK and take a huge loss on what I paid for it now and take that money (plus what I didn't spend on the upgrade) and buy something else with it then pay that ridiculous price for the upgrade to have a PEK that actually works (albeit with buggy software) to just take a loss on it in the future. $200 for the upgrade, yes - $400 for the upgrade, they must be smoking crack.
> > 
> > 
> > From: tzachi keinan <zahush76@...>
> > To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sun, March 28, 2010 10:32:42 PM
> > Subject: Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"
> > 
> >  
> > Well, dsi may have re-issued the PER after hearing the demand (i was waiting for one myself), but they have also "upgraded" its price. It costs 250$ more than it did before they discontinued it. That's a shame.
> > The new PEK costs only 200$ more than it did - but at least for a reason: the new pot edition.
> > Why does the new PER cost more? What demands does that meet?
> > There's an option to add 4 voices to the PEK by an external unit. That's fine. Whatever. But now it costs more? Why?
> > 
> > --- On Mon, 3/29/10, em <musiclists@theplexu s.com> wrote:
> > 
> > From: em <musiclists@theplexu s.com>
> > Subject: Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"
> > To: DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com
> > Date: Monday, March 29, 2010, 5:00 AM
> > 
> >  
> > haha! i am going to try hard not to call you names in the spirit of the "nice internet" but really... ok well are those your expectations of other synth manufacturers? do you think that its reasonable to demand Roland or Yamaha to change some aspect of an existing product to meet your individual needs? what about other manufacturers such as cars, appliances, etc? if you do, then you clearly have an exaggerated sense of entitlement and thats great for you! just please keep it off this list.
> > 
> > DSI has been VERY responsive to its user-base, much more so than most manufacturers, especially those in the synth world. its not ideal for some people (like me) to have to have an external box for extra voices, but at least a product exists for us to do it. and when that product was discontinued, DSI listened and re-issued it. do you have any idea how much it costs and the risks involved in releasing a product? i guess you don't. thats why most manufacturers dont even bother going beyond the initial release and saving features for a new distinct product.
> > 
> > so in my opinion DSI has raised the bar dramatically in terms of responding to its customers, quickly and with focus. take your whining elsewhere wasteking - your nick truly exemplifies the kind of waste you've been in your critique of this fine company.
> > 
> > --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com, "wasteking1" <wasteking1@ ...> wrote:
> > >
> > > ADDING VOICES TO THE PEK IS NOT THAT HARD---its already set up to do it through the polychain connection-- - all they need to do is link another 4-voice board up in line with the existing one INTERNALLY-- rather than having you buy a whole new external rack unit. (and provide a more powerful power cord/adapter cause it would need more amps.) this idea is NOT a 'new invention', its the same stuff DSI has already, just set up as a factory internal 'splice' , I dont see the big deal , 
> > > I also dont understand all the APOLOGIES on this forum for DSI's design limitations, rather than suport for an easy improvement that requires actually very little R+D. (the pot-mod wasnt much R+D either). Im suprised this crowd here is so complacent. Why not ask for something better. Something fairly easy , that would make this unit more useable OUT OF THE STUDIO--where carrying extra stuff is a drag.I assume the more peole demand it, the more they might respond. Thanks for the negative energy on this one. [And if cost was a problem, Look at MOOG ---as if that MONOsynth is a 'good deal'--- its 50% more than a PEK and they sell .]
> > > 
> > > --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com, "meatballfulton" <hubcapbrian@ > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com, "wasteking1" <wasteking1@ > wrote:
> > > > >i suppose every corporation appreciates its YES-men followers.
> > > > 
> > > > I'm not a yes man, I'm just realistic about what products DSI (or any mfr) can choose to offer. 
> > > > 
> > > > They have responded to so many customer request already: PEK and MEK, Mopho, pots instead of encoders, Tetra, PER reissue, etc. It's not like they don't listen!
> > > >
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
>

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-03-29 by Ravi Ivan Sharma

Well given that I worked directly on the Evolver, PEK, MEK, P08 and Tetr4, I am admit to being a little biased. But I don't work for the company and I am not apologizing or saying yes for anything Dave Smith chooses to do.

I can point out however that the P08 has 1 analog filter per voice while the Evolvers have 2 analog filters. Just the Analog filters alone (not to mention the 2 extra oscs and 3 delays per voice) cost more and are more expensive to implement.

Evidence? Another current real life example from a different company: The Waldorf Q Pheonix edition which has non-real-analog filters sells at novamusik for $2500. but the same thing with 16 real analog filters sells for $4,000.00. So $1500 for 16 analog filters and nothing else.

It will be interesting to see what the new 8 voice Radikal Technologies Accellerator synth keyboard is priced at. Their website already indicates that increased voices will require an additional dsp upgrade for a price. Nothing in it is real-analog as far as I know.

I am all for a wish list. I too wish the PEK has 8 voices, because then I wouldn't need to chain it to my PER. I don't think that's complaining. I would be great if it it did have 8 voices. Hell I wish it had 64 voices and was 8 part multitimbral!

Well, I couldn't afford that, so in that case I would be bummed if that was the only thing that was available and I couldn't afford any of it. Then I would complain bloody murder and start calling names too! :)

Ravi

On Mar 29, 2010, at 5:56 PM, wasteking1 wrote:

im still suprised at the number of DSI-Yes-men here, all so aplogetic for the poor company. and dismissive of these valid criticisms of the PEK. I have a number of complaints about the PEK, but the 4 voice issue seemed to be the single biggest drawback to this synth in the marketplace, and its relatively easy to change. THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE THEIR FLAGSHIP MODEL-- even the Prophet 08 has 8 voices., and it isnt cost prohibitive.

I think DSI is just concentrating on what they think is currently 'hip' in synths--little tweakable desktop units to play with a computer, [as if keyboard synths are too old school]. But then what is so new about MOOG? , and the prices on the Voyager are insane for a monosynth-- still they sell.

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Ivan Sharma .> wrote:
>
> James, Tzachi and anyone else complaining:
>
> Do you think that it is possible that the costs associated with opening up a PEK and replacing things would be more expensive than the cost of making a new PEK with the new knobs in a batch coming off an assembly line?
>
> Have you priced taking in your PEK to a qualified repair shop, i.e. E.A.R.S. in NYC or the like and finding out how much it will be to replace the pots yourself? Wouldn't it be that only if it were far less expensive to do it that way, that you would be justifiably insulted by Dave Smith's price?
>
> Why should the replacement be at a loss or no-profit to Dave Smith? Does the fact that one has a choice now, mean one was wrongfully deprived of a choice when one bought or didn't know what they were getting at the time? My PEKs encoders work fine.
>
> Do you know that the new PEK costs $200 simply because of the new pots? And even it it is, couldn't it also be a function of a) overall costs, and b) manufacturer *choice* in how to price their product?
>
> Why should overall costs, and manufacturer *choice* in how to price their product not apply to the reissued PER?
>
> Are instrument makers not allowed to raise their prices, or choose what prices to charge?
>
> If not, why not?
>
> Ravi
>
>
> On Mar 29, 2010, at 2:13 PM, James Elliott wrote:
>
> >
> > Not only that, why does the pot upgrade cost $400 for the PEK when the new PEK costs $200 more than the old one?
> >
> > I think that people are looking at the $400 upgrade for the most part as an insult. I'd rather sell my PEK and take a huge loss on what I paid for it now and take that money (plus what I didn't spend on the upgrade) and buy something else with it then pay that ridiculous price for the upgrade to have a PEK that actually works (albeit with buggy software) to just take a loss on it in the future. $200 for the upgrade, yes - $400 for the upgrade, they must be smoking crack.
> >
> >
> > From: tzachi keinan .>
> > To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sun, March 28, 2010 10:32:42 PM
> > Subject: Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"
> >
> >
> > Well, dsi may have re-issued the PER after hearing the demand (i was waiting for one myself), but they have also "upgraded" its price. It costs 250$ more than it did before they discontinued it. That's a shame.
> > The new PEK costs only 200$ more than it did - but at least for a reason: the new pot edition.
> > Why does the new PER cost more? What demands does that meet?
> > There's an option to add 4 voices to the PEK by an external unit. That's fine. Whatever. But now it costs more? Why?
> >
> > --- On Mon, 3/29/10, em theplexu s.com> wrote:
> >
> > From: em theplexu s.com>
> > Subject: Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"
> > To: DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com
> > Date: Monday, March 29, 2010, 5:00 AM
> >
> >
> > haha! i am going to try hard not to call you names in the spirit of the "nice internet" but really... ok well are those your expectations of other synth manufacturers? do you think that its reasonable to demand Roland or Yamaha to change some aspect of an existing product to meet your individual needs? what about other manufacturers such as cars, appliances, etc? if you do, then you clearly have an exaggerated sense of entitlement and thats great for you! just please keep it off this list.
> >
> > DSI has been VERY responsive to its user-base, much more so than most manufacturers, especially those in the synth world. its not ideal for some people (like me) to have to have an external box for extra voices, but at least a product exists for us to do it. and when that product was discontinued, DSI listened and re-issued it. do you have any idea how much it costs and the risks involved in releasing a product? i guess you don't. thats why most manufacturers dont even bother going beyond the initial release and saving features for a new distinct product.
> >
> > so in my opinion DSI has raised the bar dramatically in terms of responding to its customers, quickly and with focus. take your whining elsewhere wasteking - your nick truly exemplifies the kind of waste you've been in your critique of this fine company.
> >
> > --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com, "wasteking1" wrote:
> > >
> > > ADDING VOICES TO THE PEK IS NOT THAT HARD---its already set up to do it through the polychain connection-- - all they need to do is link another 4-voice board up in line with the existing one INTERNALLY-- rather than having you buy a whole new external rack unit. (and provide a more powerful power cord/adapter cause it would need more amps.) this idea is NOT a 'new invention', its the same stuff DSI has already, just set up as a factory internal 'splice' , I dont see the big deal ,
> > > I also dont understand all the APOLOGIES on this forum for DSI's design limitations, rather than suport for an easy improvement that requires actually very little R+D. (the pot-mod wasnt much R+D either). Im suprised this crowd here is so complacent. Why not ask for something better. Something fairly easy , that would make this unit more useable OUT OF THE STUDIO--where carrying extra stuff is a drag.I assume the more peole demand it, the more they might respond. Thanks for the negative energy on this one. [And if cost was a problem, Look at MOOG ---as if that MONOsynth is a 'good deal'--- its 50% more than a PEK and they sell .]
> > >
> > > --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com, "meatballfulton" <hubcapbrian@ > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com, "wasteking1" wrote:
> > > > >i suppose every corporation appreciates its YES-men followers.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not a yes man, I'm just realistic about what products DSI (or any mfr) can choose to offer.
> > > >
> > > > They have responded to so many customer request already: PEK and MEK, Mopho, pots instead of encoders, Tetra, PER reissue, etc. It's not like they don't listen!
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

2010-03-30 by motorzot

I think the difference between what has happened with DSI and some other companies is that DSI has bothered to answer the question. And has given some reasons for it.

That they would stop to consider adding 4 new voices as an upgrade does speak well. That they would do a new run of the PER speaks well. I'm assuming that they are banking on the new run eventually selling out or at least recouping the costs of ordering the run.

Some other companies that I've questioned (okay, okay, ROLAND) never bothered sending a reply. That's how they are structured.

Some small companies (and I don't feel like naming names but a couple are well respected for their small run modules/effects) either don't directly answer, answer in a timely manner or are down right rude about criticism.

I've always received answers from the DSI staff. And on at least one occasion I asked a question that, five minutes after I sent the e-mail, I realized was butt-numbingly stupid.

They were cool about it.

So am I an apologist? Naw, maybe just a mouth-breathing fanboy. I had a chance to buy an LP or Wardolf when I was in the market for another keyboard. I went with the MEK to go along with my DEVO. They work well together. There are things that DSI could have done to make them work together a little easier. If those things ever get to me, then I'll sell my setup and replace it with something else. If I ever tire of the Evolver sound I can sell what I have knowing that it has a good reputation and decent resale value.

Until then, I'm okay with the limitations of the Evolver and I can be realistic about why those limits are present.

That is, other than my bitching to Smith about putting a cupholder on the back of the MEK.

Ravi: you and the others royally screwed the pooch on that one....

Laters,
Tommy

Dave Smith Instruments SYNTHESIZERS

DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

Re: [DSI Synths] DSI - "no to 4 voice PEK upgrade"

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