Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

-----The Problem:

I successfully recorded the drum part I want in the first track. I wanted to add some percussions on another track, I changed the voice assigned to snare pad to shakes, when I try to record the second track the snare (sometimes all the drum part) part in track 1 changes to shakes.

The problem is that you're changing the voice at the source, but for the sequencer it's still the same MIDI note over the same MIDI channel. I'm not particularly knowledgeable about how to handle this on the DTXpress, but since it's supposed to act as a sound module too, there must be a way of asigning the percussion sound to another channel. I don't have the manual with me right now, but I'll check it out when I go to the studio.

Regards,

---------------------------------------------
Patricio Murphy
NAN - Buenos Aires, Argentina
http://www.gruponan.com
ICQ 19416686

The real problem is, when I play the percussion parts over a normal rythm
track it does not transmit the correct midi notes for the instrument
(percussions) I played. I do this job manually by a simple drag and drop
operation. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Patricio Murphy [mailto:murphy@...] 
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 4:59 PM
To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [DTXpress] newbie
 
Hello,
-----The Problem:
I successfully recorded the drum part I want in the first track. I wanted to
add some percussions on another track, I changed the voice assigned to snare
pad to shakes, when I try to record the second track the snare (sometimes
all the drum part) part in track 1 changes to shakes. 
 
The problem is that you're changing the voice at the source, but for the
sequencer it's still the same MIDI note over the same MIDI channel. I'm not
particularly knowledgeable about how to handle this on the DTXpress, but
since it's supposed to act as a sound module too, there must be a way of
asigning the percussion sound to another channel. I don't have the manual
with me right now, but I'll check it out when I go to the studio.
Regards,
---------------------------------------------
Patricio Murphy
NAN - Buenos Aires, Argentina
http://www.gruponan.com <http://www.gruponan.com> 
ICQ 19416686
 

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I just started reading the messages from this group  and had to join.
I've had my dtxpressII for about 9 mos and am starting to regain my
skills of long ago.  I used to play in a H.S. band in the 70's and
haven't touched a drum set since.  Now I can play in my own private
(virtual) world, even in my apartment, ( I insisted on a ground floor
so I wouldn't have neighborly issues) and I love it.
I hear a lot of crabbin about the cymbal sounds and I don't
understand... they sound fine in my headfones.  Is it hard to make
them sound good thru a sound system?

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "gordonbakos420" <g.bakos@i...> 
wrote:
> I just started reading the messages from this group  and had to 
join.
> I've had my dtxpressII for about 9 mos and am starting to regain my
> skills of long ago.  I used to play in a H.S. band in the 70's and
> haven't touched a drum set since.  Now I can play in my own private
> (virtual) world, even in my apartment, ( I insisted on a ground 
floor
> so I wouldn't have neighborly issues) and I love it.
> I hear a lot of crabbin about the cymbal sounds and I don't
> understand... they sound fine in my headfones.  Is it hard to make
> them sound good thru a sound system?

Hi Gordon,

It's great, isn't it? E-drums are a godsend for drummers who live in 
a world with other people. I guess that makes all of us. I don't want 
to come down too hard on the cymbals, but I do think that they are a 
weak link in a generally impressive product. I agree that the 
DTXpress module has a few good ones, but a great many of the others 
sound too processed, not like cymbals found in nature, if you know 
what I mean. The problem is partly that in the digital world, each 
stroke is an entirely new event; the natural sustain with its 
overtones and undertones is missing. The decay feature in the Voice 
menu helps a little, but the cycling is almost audible and the cutoff 
too abrupt. The crossfading option is a good idea in this system, but 
the DTXpress doesn't offer enough layering of voices, either 
simultaneously or by velocity. Resolution is another factor, and that 
won't improve completely until the bit and sampling rate get higher. 
It all starts, however, with the original samples. Yamaha makes 
acoustic drums, not cymbals. I don't know where they got their cymbal 
sounds. Some of the more expensive modules do a better job of 
approximating what cymbals do under various conditions. The ddrum 
module, for example, which works on an entirely different principle--
creating all its sounds by extensive multisampling rather digitally 
modeling sound waves or altering samples with effects--is 
breathtaking in its realism. It's also a whole lot easier to use, 
because the voices already have the natural elements and environments 
embedded in them; the user doesn't have a set of parameters to 
manipulate to simulate them. 

That said, some of the DTXPress crashes with the right amount of 
decay sound great, especially the ones numbered within C1-10. The 
Chinas are pretty good, too, and I like one of the rides a lot 
(Ridelite A, or something). In a band context or a practice context 
with music, they sound better than when totally naked. Hey, but most 
drummers look better fully clothed than totally exposed, too. So how 
can we complain? The incredible thing about the DTXpress is that it 
is as good as it is at such a low price. 

Sorry, I'm running off at the mouth. Welcome to the fold. Just so 
that you don't misunderstand me, my feeling about the DTXpress cymbal 
voices is a little like a Zen experience. When I first started using 
them, they blew me away. After a while I started noticing their 
deficiencies and became slightly disenchanted. Now I appreciate them 
for what they are, which ain't that bad.

Ed

More new members ... this is excellent.

--- liberatusvirus wrote:
> ... my feeling about the DTXpress cymbal voices is a
> little like a Zen experience. When I first started using 
> them, they blew me away. After a while I started noticing
> their deficiencies and became slightly disenchanted. Now I
> appreciate them for what they are, which ain't that bad.

Which is, I think, exactly where I am now. I have a set of layered 
tom sounds I'm delighted with -- just tweaking the "tension" up or 
down for different kits -- and a variety of snares that are more or 
less good enough, and cymbals that are usable. I think there's more 
that can be done to the cymbal sounds with some serious tweaking 
which I simply don't have time for right now. I'd rather just play 
at the moment, as with the work tensions I have and need to release 
it's far better for the soul than module-fettling. But I have a 
hunch there's more to be done - layering some of the crashes in 1-10 
with some of the darker cymbals (even some of the analog sounds) in 
different proportions.

When it comes to layering, I'm now a firm believer in thinking "out 
of the box". I started off with just layering "related" sounds 
(natural snares on natural snares, and so on) but there's much to be 
gained by finding a sound that matches the one you're trying to 
achieve no matter what category it's in. I have one "tight" snare 
crack that's achieved with a tuned-up rimshout sound with a 
sidestick layered on it. It has so much bite it makes my nose bleed.

But then, but then ... I downloaded some ddrum demos from the Clavia 
site a couple of days ago. The one called "CrillanSolo" knocked me 
clean off my chair ...

Stewart

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "moosetication" <moosetication@y...> 
wrote:
>> But then, but then ... I downloaded some ddrum demos from the 
Clavia 
> site a couple of days ago. The one called "CrillanSolo" knocked me 
> clean off my chair ...

Hey Stewart,

How's life? Are you a ddrum owner, too, or are you just listening to 
the sounds with the ddrum PC tool?

I posted the above two lines and realized that you probably 
downloaded the Crillian MP3. It's a huge investment in time, and 
probably not worth the effort if you don't have a ddrum module. but 
you can download individual sounds from Aronoff, Phillips, Gaynor, 
Chambers, and others and listen to them on the ddrum4 tool. If your 
PC sound has a bottom end, you can get a sense of the resonance these 
sounds have. I've always been a fan of Mel Gaynor; the toms from his 
kit transferred to the module are positively thunderous.

Ed

Ed

--- liberatusvirus wrote:
> I ... realized that you probably 
> downloaded the Crillian MP3.

Exactement.

> I've always been a fan of Mel Gaynor; the toms from his 
> kit transferred to the module are positively thunderous.

I've listened to the MP3 demos of the Phillips / Gaynor / Chambers 
kits from the Clavia site. Very nice indeed, though I still thought 
the sound on the Crillan solo remarkable. Cranked up through the 5.1 
system on the PC, and it's stupendous. I'm very jealous, and 
wondering about saving pennies for a used ddrum module. I suspect 
the new Yamaha will be extortionately expensive for a while, and may 
not be *that* superior to the ddrum.

It's all pie-in-the-sky right now anyway. I'm too busy and too 
broke, and a new flute for #1 daughter (probably in the order of 
$2000) comes first.

Oh, and speaking of Mel Gaynor - small world department: saw 
Matchbox20 at Wembley couple of weeks ago, and they did a remarkably 
good cover of Don't You (Forget About Me).

Stewart

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "moosetication" <moosetication@y...> 
wrote:
> the sound on the Crillan solo cranked up through the 5.1 
> system on the PC is stupendous. I'm very jealous, and 
> wondering about saving pennies for a used ddrum module. I suspect 
> the new Yamaha will be extortionately expensive for a while, and 
may 
> not be *that* superior to the ddrum.

I envy you the 5.1 on your PC. On the matter of superiority, the 
ddrum4 system has always appealed to me because of its simplicity, 
its analog triggering stage, its method of sampling, and its jaw-
dropping sounds. There is a downside, however, though it has nothing 
to do with the general quality, which is unbeatable. The flash memory 
is way too small for the size of the Clavia library, and downloading 
through MIDI is a tedious affair. Plus, you can't augment the module 
with an external trigger device because the ddrum is limited to ten 
sounds/ten inputs; you need a second module even for a fairly modest 
kit. But those sounds make up for any inconvenience. 

My money (well, not my money) is on the new Yamaha module to be a 
killer, with a range of capabilities that will far surpass ddrum's 
(even the much-rumored ddrum5), but I reckon it will cost in the area 
of $2000 for a long time. If you can do without some of the MIDI 
features, extra inputs, and possibly onboard sampling capacity, and 
are in the market for a module, I would wholeheartedly recommend the 
ddrum (c. $800 these days for the 1.50 OS used; c. $700 for 1.32-
1.40, which are just as good if you don't use triggered acoustics or 
Clavia's own meshes). No matter what Yamaha accomplishes, it won't 
have the benefits of Clavia's methodology. It simply becomes a matter 
of one man's meat. Personally, I'd love to have both options.
 
> Oh, and speaking of Mel Gaynor - small world department: saw 
> Matchbox20 at Wembley couple of weeks ago, and they did a 
remarkably 
> good cover of Don't You (Forget About Me).

My favorite era for Simple Minds (and Mel Gaynor), in fact my only 
era, was the early period of Up on the Catwalk, Waterfront, East at 
Easter, etc., in which the music had lots of room to breath, leaving 
space for the drums to resound. And Mel Gaynor could resound in those 
days, while doing some inventive timekeeping. He's probably even 
better now, but I haven't heard him since.

Ed