Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

Hi there,

I posted this question before, but till now there were no aswers:

Can somebody help me with the following: 

I don't understand the voices-thing fully. I assigned a second voice 
to the beauty snare (for experiment a completely different voice). 
But I don't hear any difference. So I thought, let's go info the 
voices layer menu. I experimented some with the balance of the 2 
voices. Not a difference at all. 

I suppose I don't understand things rightly. What is the concept 
anyway? For example, in the manual it says that the beauty snare has 
got 2 voices. But in the voice edit menu, when addressing voice 2, it 
says: no assign (that's the reason I assigned a different voice here, 
but like I said, I don't hear a difference).


Anko

Hi Anko,

I can explain the concept, but I am at a loss as to
what you are seeing with that particular snare.

In my mind there are two types of layering, one where
you have multiple voices (v=1 and v=2) that play
together (technically called stacked), and the other
where you have one voice for the soft hit, and another
for the hard hits (called Crossfade).  Based on your
comments it sounds like you understand those concepts,
so I won't go any further on that topic.

There is one parameter that comes to mind if you do
not hear any difference after adding a second voice
(beyond the obvious of ensuring both voices have their
volumes set high enough to be heard), and that is Key
Assign Mode (topic 2-3 in the Voice Edit section of
the xpress I manual).  This allocates the tone
generator resources for the sounds, and if you have it
in either Mono or High mode, you may not hear a 2nd
voice.

Along with that, I suppose if you have both voices
assigned to the same Alternate group, you would only
hear one of the voices at a time, but that doesn't
sound like what you are hearing.

Maybe someone who is near their kit can try what you
are seeing - I don't have one here in my office!

Walt
--- "ankoanko2003 <adehoop@...>"
<adehoop@...> wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> I posted this question before, but till now there
> were no aswers:
> 
> Can somebody help me with the following: 
> 
> I don't understand the voices-thing fully. I
> assigned a second voice 
> to the beauty snare (for experiment a completely
> different voice). 
> But I don't hear any difference. So I thought, let's
> go info the 
> voices layer menu. I experimented some with the
> balance of the 2 
> voices. Not a difference at all. 
> 
> I suppose I don't understand things rightly. What is
> the concept 
> anyway? For example, in the manual it says that the
> beauty snare has 
> got 2 voices. But in the voice edit menu, when
> addressing voice 2, it 
> says: no assign (that's the reason I assigned a
> different voice here, 
> but like I said, I don't hear a difference).
> 
> 
> Anko
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

Hi and welcome!  When it says "no assign" it means no
voice was assigned, and you can use the  <- and ->
arrows to move to a category like C-cymbal of T-tom
ect, then go to the + and - signs to pick the voice
you want.  I have never tried that particular
snare,and if it says V= and you can enter the 2 , it
means you CAN assign a second voice...so perhaps a
voice was never assigned to the V=2.  Hope I am on the
right track and this helps you out.
Jade
--- "ankoanko2003 <adehoop@...>"
<adehoop@...> wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> I posted this question before, but till now there
> were no aswers:
> 
> Can somebody help me with the following: 
> 
> I don't understand the voices-thing fully. I
> assigned a second voice 
> to the beauty snare (for experiment a completely
> different voice). 
> But I don't hear any difference. So I thought, let's
> go info the 
> voices layer menu. I experimented some with the
> balance of the 2 
> voices. Not a difference at all. 
> 
> I suppose I don't understand things rightly. What is
> the concept 
> anyway? For example, in the manual it says that the
> beauty snare has 
> got 2 voices. But in the voice edit menu, when
> addressing voice 2, it 
> says: no assign (that's the reason I assigned a
> different voice here, 
> but like I said, I don't hear a difference).
> 
> 
> Anko
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

Anko:

I'm gunna take a shot at this since I have the manual and the module
right here. From what I can tell, there is a finite amount of memory
"space" available for each voice. If a single voice is two-voices "wide"
it leaves no room for a second voice to be "layered". In my reading and
testing, it seems that you can *only* add a 2nd layer voice *if* the
first layer voice is not already 2 layers "wide" (as indicated by the
"DOT" next to the name in the manual). From my testing, if you use
BeatyRim (Acoustic Snare number 36) it is only one layer wide, so it
leaves layer #2 open for assignment. So, I assigned "12Soprno" as the
second layer and had both of those sounds play together and balance them
with the layer balance.

In your case, when you choose the Acoustic Snare number 37 (Beauty) it is
already 2 layers "wide" and it consumes the entire memory allocated for
that pad (both layers) leaving no space for another sample to reside in (
could be the sample rate, length or quality of that particular sample?).
In this case, the second layer description of "unassigned" is essentially
correct since there is no sample space left for it to use, so there is no
2nd layer assignment. I s'pose it would have been smarter for Yamaha to
have made it impossible to assign a voice to the second layer when this
occurs. Maybe make it display an error like "No room for layer 2" or some
such... But hey, I didn't design the thing... :)

Now, again, this is based only on my testing in the last few minutes and
some reading in the manual and not "official" from Yamaha. If someone
wants to correct me feel free! :) hey, maybe we could ask the helpful
Yamaha guy (can't remember his name, but there were a bunch of people
phoning him over the MIDIkiti thing) and get an "official" answer. Hope
this helps.. :)

Vern

-- 
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE     | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer     | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services  | paying you? Of course, if the network
vern@... www.txis.com  | is up, then we obviously don't need
Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG



ankoanko2003 said:

> Hi there,
>
> I posted this question before, but till now there were no aswers:
>
> Can somebody help me with the following:
>
> I don't understand the voices-thing fully. I assigned a second voice
> to the beauty snare (for experiment a completely different voice).  But
> I don't hear any difference. So I thought, let's go info the
> voices layer menu. I experimented some with the balance of the 2
> voices. Not a difference at all.
>
> I suppose I don't understand things rightly. What is the concept
> anyway? For example, in the manual it says that the beauty snare has
> got 2 voices. But in the voice edit menu, when addressing voice 2, it
> says: no assign (that's the reason I assigned a different voice here,
> but like I said, I don't hear a difference).
>
>
> Anko
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ---------------------~--> New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More
> control. More power.
> Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more.
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/kkLolB/TM
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
>
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Hey Vern and Anko,

Vern, what you said made me think even more about my
earlier anwser - in this case we are really tring to
trigger 3 voices, not two.  The Key
Assign Mode only has one setting that will play more
than two voices - is it poly? That matches with what
Vern observed.  Walt
--- Vernon Graner <vern@...> wrote:
> Anko:
> 
> I'm gunna take a shot at this since I have the
> manual and the module
> right here. From what I can tell, there is a finite
> amount of memory
> "space" available for each voice. If a single voice
> is two-voices "wide"
> it leaves no room for a second voice to be
> "layered". In my reading and
> testing, it seems that you can *only* add a 2nd
> layer voice *if* the
> first layer voice is not already 2 layers "wide" (as
> indicated by the
> "DOT" next to the name in the manual). From my
> testing, if you use
> BeatyRim (Acoustic Snare number 36) it is only one
> layer wide, so it
> leaves layer #2 open for assignment. So, I assigned
> "12Soprno" as the
> second layer and had both of those sounds play
> together and balance them
> with the layer balance.
> 
> In your case, when you choose the Acoustic Snare
> number 37 (Beauty) it is
> already 2 layers "wide" and it consumes the entire
> memory allocated for
> that pad (both layers) leaving no space for another
> sample to reside in (
> could be the sample rate, length or quality of that
> particular sample?).
> In this case, the second layer description of
> "unassigned" is essentially
> correct since there is no sample space left for it
> to use, so there is no
> 2nd layer assignment. I s'pose it would have been
> smarter for Yamaha to
> have made it impossible to assign a voice to the
> second layer when this
> occurs. Maybe make it display an error like "No room
> for layer 2" or some
> such... But hey, I didn't design the thing... :)
> 
> Now, again, this is based only on my testing in the
> last few minutes and
> some reading in the manual and not "official" from
> Yamaha. If someone
> wants to correct me feel free! :) hey, maybe we
> could ask the helpful
> Yamaha guy (can't remember his name, but there were
> a bunch of people
> phoning him over the MIDIkiti thing) and get an
> "official" answer. Hope
> this helps.. :)
> 
> Vern
> 
> -- 
> Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE     | "If the network is
> down, then you're
> Senior Systems Engineer     | obviously incompetent
> so why are we
> Texas Information Services  | paying you? Of course,
> if the network
> vern@... www.txis.com  | is up, then we
> obviously don't need
> Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we
> paying you?" VLG
> 
> 
> 
> ankoanko2003 said:
> > Hi there,
> >
> > I posted this question before, but till now there
> were no aswers:
> >
> > Can somebody help me with the following:
> >
> > I don't understand the voices-thing fully. I
> assigned a second voice
> > to the beauty snare (for experiment a completely
> different voice).  But
> > I don't hear any difference. So I thought, let's
> go info the
> > voices layer menu. I experimented some with the
> balance of the 2
> > voices. Not a difference at all.
> >
> > I suppose I don't understand things rightly. What
> is the concept
> > anyway? For example, in the manual it says that
> the beauty snare has
> > got 2 voices. But in the voice edit menu, when
> addressing voice 2, it
> > says: no assign (that's the reason I assigned a
> different voice here,
> > but like I said, I don't hear a difference).
> >
> >
> > Anko
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ---------------------~--> New Yahoo! Mail Plus.
> More flexibility. More
> > control. More power.
> > Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and
> more.
> >
>
http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/kkLolB/TM
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> >
> > Community email addresses:
> >   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
> >   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
> >   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> >   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
> >
> > Shortcut URL to this page:
> >   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

Vern and Walt,

I've been away for a couple of days, so I'm just reading the news: 
thanks a lot, things are much clearer now. 

Anko


--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, Walt <wgardus@y...> wrote:
> Hey Vern and Anko,
> 
> Vern, what you said made me think even more about my
> earlier anwser - in this case we are really tring to
> trigger 3 voices, not two.  The Key
> Assign Mode only has one setting that will play more
> than two voices - is it poly? That matches with what
> Vern observed.  Walt
> --- Vernon Graner <vern@t...> wrote:
> > Anko:
> > 
> > I'm gunna take a shot at this since I have the
> > manual and the module
> > right here. From what I can tell, there is a finite
> > amount of memory
> > "space" available for each voice. If a single voice
> > is two-voices "wide"
> > it leaves no room for a second voice to be
> > "layered". In my reading and
> > testing, it seems that you can *only* add a 2nd
> > layer voice *if* the
> > first layer voice is not already 2 layers "wide" (as
> > indicated by the
> > "DOT" next to the name in the manual). From my
> > testing, if you use
> > BeatyRim (Acoustic Snare number 36) it is only one
> > layer wide, so it
> > leaves layer #2 open for assignment. So, I assigned
> > "12Soprno" as the
> > second layer and had both of those sounds play
> > together and balance them
> > with the layer balance.
> > 
> > In your case, when you choose the Acoustic Snare
> > number 37 (Beauty) it is
> > already 2 layers "wide" and it consumes the entire
> > memory allocated for
> > that pad (both layers) leaving no space for another
> > sample to reside in (
> > could be the sample rate, length or quality of that
> > particular sample?).
> > In this case, the second layer description of
> > "unassigned" is essentially
> > correct since there is no sample space left for it
> > to use, so there is no
> > 2nd layer assignment. I s'pose it would have been
> > smarter for Yamaha to
> > have made it impossible to assign a voice to the
> > second layer when this
> > occurs. Maybe make it display an error like "No room
> > for layer 2" or some
> > such... But hey, I didn't design the thing... :)
> > 
> > Now, again, this is based only on my testing in the
> > last few minutes and
> > some reading in the manual and not "official" from
> > Yamaha. If someone
> > wants to correct me feel free! :) hey, maybe we
> > could ask the helpful
> > Yamaha guy (can't remember his name, but there were
> > a bunch of people
> > phoning him over the MIDIkiti thing) and get an
> > "official" answer. Hope
> > this helps.. :)
> > 
> > Vern
> > 
> > -- 
> > Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE     | "If the network is
> > down, then you're
> > Senior Systems Engineer     | obviously incompetent
> > so why are we
> > Texas Information Services  | paying you? Of course,
> > if the network
> > vern@t... www.txis.com  | is up, then we
> > obviously don't need
> > Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we
> > paying you?" VLG
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ankoanko2003 said:
> > > Hi there,
> > >
> > > I posted this question before, but till now there
> > were no aswers:
> > >
> > > Can somebody help me with the following:
> > >
> > > I don't understand the voices-thing fully. I
> > assigned a second voice
> > > to the beauty snare (for experiment a completely
> > different voice).  But
> > > I don't hear any difference. So I thought, let's
> > go info the
> > > voices layer menu. I experimented some with the
> > balance of the 2
> > > voices. Not a difference at all.
> > >
> > > I suppose I don't understand things rightly. What
> > is the concept
> > > anyway? For example, in the manual it says that
> > the beauty snare has
> > > got 2 voices. But in the voice edit menu, when
> > addressing voice 2, it
> > > says: no assign (that's the reason I assigned a
> > different voice here,
> > > but like I said, I don't hear a difference).
> > >
> > >
> > > Anko
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > ---------------------~--> New Yahoo! Mail Plus.
> > More flexibility. More
> > > control. More power.
> > > Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and
> > more.
> > >
> >
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/kkLolB/TM
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
-~->

> > >
> > > Community email addresses:
> > >   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
> > >   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
> > >   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> > >   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
> > >
> > > Shortcut URL to this page:
> > >   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/