Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

Hey Guys,
I just got myself a new DTXPRESS 1 set today and I am lovin it.
Just got a question, when i am using the Acoustic Drumset #1,
I can barely hear the bass drum sound.  Can i raise the volume?
And in addition im not to crazy about the bass drum pedal that it 
came with.  What do you guys recommend that has the best 
price/performance ratio.  Lastly, i notice that when i press the hi 
hat pedal, there is a little clicking noise.  Is this normal?

I am glad to have joined this group and i hope that you guys will be 
able to answer my questions as this is my first electronic set.

Mikey

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Y." <darkice_2000@y...> 
wrote:
> Hey Guys,
> I just got myself a new DTXPRESS 1 set today and I am lovin it.
> Just got a question, when i am using the Acoustic Drumset #1,
> I can barely hear the bass drum sound.  Can i raise the volume?
> And in addition im not to crazy about the bass drum pedal that it 
> came with.  What do you guys recommend that has the best 
> price/performance ratio.  Lastly, i notice that when i press the hi 
> hat pedal, there is a little clicking noise.  Is this normal?
> 
> I am glad to have joined this group and i hope that you guys will 
be 
> able to answer my questions as this is my first electronic set.

Hi Mikey,

Welcome to the party and congratulations on your new (used?) 
DTXpressI. You can raise the volume of every pad by entering the 
voice menu for each input. You can also raise the overall gain of the 
kit in the trigger menu (there's also a global volume control). 
Notwithstanding the manual's limitations, I suggest that you glance 
through it to get the basics of how to set up the various parameters 
and to get acquainted with the vocabulary. At the risk of gross 
error, since I don't know what kick pedal came with your set, I 
always thought that the entry-level Yamaha was good, but this 
recommendation is from someone who used leather-strapped Camcos for 
thirty years or so and never thought twice about it. I'll let others 
handle the various options. I haven't a clue at this point what the 
hi-hat click might be, especially if you hear it with factory kits. 
Does it sound electronic, mechanical . . . ? Maybe as you play around 
with it for a while, you'll be able to describe the problem with a 
little more detail.

Ed

Hi everybody,

I've been experiencing a problem, sometimes after an
hour or so of playing on my DTXpressII the HH pedal
gets stuck, like in a middle position, I can't get the
open HH soundjust the middle and closed sounds, and
the foot splash sound, I've tried changing the cable
but it seems to be something internal, then after a
while it starts to work fine again.

Any recommendations on this?, should I just open it
and see?, do you recommend sending it to yamaha?, I
wonder what if they can't replicate my problem.

Thanks.

Pedro.


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--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, Theguy Withnoeye 
<theguywithnoeye@y...> wrote:
> Hi everybody,
> 
> I've been experiencing a problem, sometimes after an
> hour or so of playing on my DTXpressII the HH pedal
> gets stuck, like in a middle position, I can't get the
> open HH soundjust the middle and closed sounds, and
> the foot splash sound, I've tried changing the cable
> but it seems to be something internal, then after a
> while it starts to work fine again.
> 
> Any recommendations on this?, should I just open it
> and see?, do you recommend sending it to yamaha?, I
> wonder what if they can't replicate my problem.

Pedro,

Since the difficulty is intermittent, it does seem like something is 
amiss in the controller, perhaps faulty contact with the element at 
the pedal's top position. OGD has pictures of an open KP65 in the 
Photo section (he also might have a more definitive answer). You can 
take a look and see what the problem area looks like. If the unit is 
new, a call to Yamaha would probably get you another one. You 
shouldn't have any responsibility to repair a new product. The store 
where you bought it might help, but many members (including me) have 
had great success going through Yamaha directly (the store is likely 
to say so, too). Yamaha may try to help you troubleshoot the problem 
first; if that doesn't work, they'll just send you another one.

Ed

Pedro,

Go to the photo sections of this group and there are pictures of the inside
of a HH65. As you can see there really isn't much to it. If it's still under
warranty let Yamaha handle it. If it's not, it's pretty easy to open up. It
may just need a little cleaning, if it is a physical sticking problem. The
question I have is: does the pedal stick or does the sound stick. If the
pedal has full travel up to down, but the sound is "sticking"; it may be a
problem with the rubber wedge inside that presses against the Fsr strip on
the base plate. If the pedal is what is sticking, then it just may need a
cleaning or the spring might be sticking.

OGD

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Theguy Withnoeye [SMTP:theguywithnoeye@...]
> Sent:	Wednesday, October 15, 2003 10:54 AM
> To:	DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:	[DTXpress] HH Pedal gets stuck!!!
> 
> Hi everybody,
> 
> I've been experiencing a problem, sometimes after an
> hour or so of playing on my DTXpressII the HH pedal
> gets stuck, like in a middle position, I can't get the
> open HH soundjust the middle and closed sounds, and
> the foot splash sound, I've tried changing the cable
> but it seems to be something internal, then after a
> while it starts to work fine again.
> 
> Any recommendations on this?, should I just open it
> and see?, do you recommend sending it to yamaha?, I
> wonder what if they can't replicate my problem.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Pedro.
> 
> 
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> Pedro,
> 
> Ed wrote: "Since the difficulty is intermittent, it does seem like
> something is 
> amiss in the controller, perhaps faulty contact with the element at 
> the pedal's top position." 
> 
> 
Ed, 
Some thoughts on the HH65.

When I first opened the HH65 up, my first impression of the pedal (having an
engineering background) was "this could be a potential long term design flaw
in the basic design and contruction" and that I should just figure on
replacing the rubber wedgy piece every few years.  The concern I had was
that by using a flexible material like rubber for the wedge, that although
it does provide excellant shock absorbtion, it is also can lead to wear and
tear and stretching. This stretching would lead to the first notch on the
bottom of the wedge to lay continuously on the first contact point of the
FSR and thus eliminating the "open hihat sound" permanently. By lifting up
the pedal and wiggling it, it might let the wedge spring back enough to no
longer make contact with the FSR. 

With an acoutics hihat the spring that keeps the top hat raised are pretty
strong and reliable, so that a many hours of use everyday, year after year,
there isn't a problem with the top hihat drooping down and making permant
contact with the bottom hat.

Since your foot rests on the hihat pedal in the closed or semi-closed
position the overwhelming majority of the time, it is not a problem for the
acoutic hihat, but could be a concern with the HH65. By having constant
downward pressure on the hihat pedal (HH65), you are stretching the rubber
wedge. It is secured at one side only (heal side) and the distants between
the ridge on the bottom of the rubber wedge and the FSR is very small, it
would not have to stretch too much before a problem would develop. 

Although I have not encounter the problem yet (and will probably never have
one since I have three HH65 that I swap around to distribute usage time), I
can easily see where it could develop into a problem. I am sure that Yamaha
torture tested it my opening and closing it with a robot tester, but I have
to wonder if they ever just left it in a fully closed position for a year or
so to see if the rubber overstretched.

OGD


 
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>If it's still under warranty let Yamaha handle it.

 it still is under warranty, I bought it new about a
month ago.

> The question I have is: does the pedal stick or does
the sound stick.

It's the sound.

I Still Feel I should open it and check out if there's
any obvious cause for this problem, I've always liked
to open up my toys to see what's inside, and over the
years I have developed the ability to put them back
together right ;P.

I'll add a Question, has anyone finally tried the HH80
on a DTXpressII, I once saw one on ebay and thought on
acquiring it, but I'm on a playing level where I
barely take advantage of the HH65 pedal capabilities,
so I thought I'd first try to become a (better)
drummer, and fully control the basic kit.

Thanks Ed and OGD.



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--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, rdamon@m... wrote:
> When I first opened the HH65 up, my first impression of the pedal 
(having an
> engineering background) was "this could be a potential long term 
design flaw
> in the basic design and contruction" and that I should just figure 
on
> replacing the rubber wedgy piece every few years.  The concern I 
had was
> that by using a flexible material like rubber for the wedge, that 
although
> it does provide excellant shock absorbtion, it is also can lead to 
wear and
> tear and stretching. This stretching would lead to the first notch 
on the
> bottom of the wedge to lay continuously on the first contact point 
of the
> FSR and thus eliminating the "open hihat sound" permanently. By 
lifting up
> the pedal and wiggling it, it might let the wedge spring back 
enough to no
> longer make contact with the FSR. 
> 
> With an acoutics hihat the spring that keeps the top hat raised are 
pretty
> strong and reliable, so that a many hours of use everyday, year 
after year,
> there isn't a problem with the top hihat drooping down and making 
permant
> contact with the bottom hat.
> 
> Since your foot rests on the hihat pedal in the closed or semi-
closed
> position the overwhelming majority of the time, it is not a problem 
for the
> acoutic hihat, but could be a concern with the HH65. By having 
constant
> downward pressure on the hihat pedal (HH65), you are stretching the 
rubber
> wedge. It is secured at one side only (heal side) and the distants 
between
> the ridge on the bottom of the rubber wedge and the FSR is very 
small, it
> would not have to stretch too much before a problem would develop. 
> 
> Although I have not encounter the problem yet (and will probably 
never have
> one since I have three HH65 that I swap around to distribute usage 
time), I
> can easily see where it could develop into a problem. I am sure 
that Yamaha
> torture tested it my opening and closing it with a robot tester, 
but I have
> to wonder if they ever just left it in a fully closed position for 
a year or
> so to see if the rubber overstretched.

OGD,

Interesting and valuable point. It led me back to look closely at 
your photos again. I doubt if the "design flaw" would qualify 
as "planned obselescence," but the effect would be the same. I also 
doubt that Yamaha tested the configuration to project a lifespan for 
it; it wouldn't serve any practical purpose for them, even if it 
might for the consumer. Regardless of the mechanical/electronic 
shelflife that a unit like the HH65 might have, how long would the 
typical consumer be expected to keep it? From Yamaha's perspective, 
hopefully not long enough, or short enough, to hurt business.  The 
question goes right to the heart of issues about marketing and 
product turnover/improvement etc. It is a public service to warn 
users about it. 

Ed

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, Theguy Withnoeye 
<theguywithnoeye@y...> wrote:
> I'll add a Question, has anyone finally tried the HH80
> on a DTXpressII, I once saw one on ebay and thought on
> acquiring it, but I'm on a playing level where I
> barely take advantage of the HH65 pedal capabilities,
> so I thought I'd first try to become a (better)
> drummer, and fully control the basic kit.

Pedro,

I assume that you saw the response that OGD got from Yamaha when he 
asked about whether the action of the HH80A were fully continuous or 
simply more discrete, as well as the discussion we had some time ago 
in relation to a thread on the vdrums forum. Theoretically, the HH80A 
will allow much more variable action between fully open and closed. 
However, contingencies of setup and the degree of compactness in the 
pedal's movement make the extent to which a user can actually 
experience the gradations somewhat uncertain. I've heard of Xpress 
drummers raving about the benefits of the HH80A, or at least 
acknowledging it, but that could be an understandable justification 
of a fairly expensive purchase. The Visu-lite hi hat, which works on 
a fully continous principle, was based on the HH80A; it definitely 
gets incremental sounds that the HH60 couldn't get with the Xpress 
module, which speaks well (or at least better) or the HH80A. But, 
again, the range of motion is too small for really fine distinctions. 

That said, hi hat response is a sticky point with all manufacturers. 
As I said, the discussion that OGD and I had about Yamaha's followed 
from a negative discussion about Roland's. I've told you about the 
Visu-lite. I've also used ddrum (which is not compatible with either 
Roland or Yamaha electronics), and even though the sounds are 
unbeatable, ddrum users complain that the sonic distance between open 
and closed is too compressed. Personally, I can live with it, 
although advertising to the contrary can sour the experience. For 
now, I'd hang onto the HH65, for now, assuming that you can fix it. 
But then, I'm always in favor of saving money if the expense doesn't 
seem to make a huge qualitative difference. By the way, the Pintech 
and Hart versions, which require an adaptor with Yamaha, are outside 
my experience.

Ed

> Ed wrote:  I doubt if the "design flaw" would qualify 
> as "planned obselescence," but the effect would be the same. 
> 
> 
Ed,

An interesting design issue is: Why Yamaha chose to use the spring on the
bottom of the HH65 to lift top plate pedal only and not to lift both the
"top plate pedal and the rubber wedge" together? This simple change would
assure that the rubber wedge, even it were to stretch a little, it would be
forced off the FSR ribben located on the bottom plate and all but eliminate
the hanging loss of the fully open position. 


OGD
 
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Well, that just gave me an idea....

Next time I get the same problem, I'll take off the
top plate and move the wedge directly, if then I
become totally certain of the cause or the problem, I
think I can attach a small strap or chord to the top
of the wedge and below the top plate, just that it's
barely tense when the pedal is not being pressed, of
course I'll have to find a way so I don't physically
modify the pedal, unless I find it a permanent problem
solver, but all this is just going through my head in
flashy images now I want to leave work and go try it,
but whenever I try that, I'll take some pictures and
post them :P.

I'll keep you informed, It might even take a couple of
days for the problem to occur again, and I might like
to wait until it becomes more constant so I can tell
for sure it solved my problem :P.

Pedro.




--- rdamon@... wrote:
> > Ed wrote:  I doubt if the "design flaw" would
> qualify 
> > as "planned obselescence," but the effect would be
> the same. 
> > 
> > 
> Ed,
> 
> An interesting design issue is: Why Yamaha chose to
> use the spring on the
> bottom of the HH65 to lift top plate pedal only and
> not to lift both the
> "top plate pedal and the rubber wedge" together?
> This simple change would
> assure that the rubber wedge, even it were to
> stretch a little, it would be
> forced off the FSR ribben located on the bottom
> plate and all but eliminate
> the hanging loss of the fully open position. 
> 
> 
> OGD
>  
>
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> are hereby notified that
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> use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon,
> this information is
> strictly prohibited. If you have received this
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--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, rdamon@m... wrote:
> An interesting design issue is: Why Yamaha chose to use the spring 
on the
> bottom of the HH65 to lift top plate pedal only and not to lift 
both the
> "top plate pedal and the rubber wedge" together? This simple change 
would
> assure that the rubber wedge, even it were to stretch a little, it 
would be
> forced off the FSR ribben located on the bottom plate and all but 
eliminate
> the hanging loss of the fully open position. 

They took the easy road, didn't they? That is, the margin for a 
certain type of error is wider; the other error either didn't occur 
to them or didn't count.