Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

ok, i may be missing something here, but how do you roll on a cymbal
without it sounding like banging on a cheapa$$ keyboard? is there any
way to make it sound natural? this is the first flaw i've seen with
the DTX so far, and it's a pretty big one. along the same lines,
choking the cymbal sounds completely fake as well. what's the deal? is
there any way to make those crashes sound like a real cymbal?

and if you haven't checked it out yet, download my song
(01_01-04-2004.mp3 in the MP3 folder). i'm dying for some feedback!!!

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <jayluv6@y...> wrote:
> ok, i may be missing something here, but how do you roll on a cymbal
> without it sounding like banging on a cheapa$$ keyboard? is there 
any
> way to make it sound natural? this is the first flaw i've seen with
> the DTX so far, and it's a pretty big one. along the same lines,
> choking the cymbal sounds completely fake as well. what's the deal? 
is
> there any way to make those crashes sound like a real cymbal?
> 
> and if you haven't checked it out yet, download my song
> (01_01-04-2004.mp3 in the MP3 folder). i'm dying for some 
feedback!!!

I agree. Cymbal rolling is a weakness of the DTXpress module. The 
module seems unable to compensate for the fact that each new strike 
of an e-cymbal, unlike that of an acoustic cymbal, is a completely 
new event, without the benefit of the natural vibration and decay of 
the one that preceded it. Experimenting with the decay setting in the 
voice menu might help a little bit, and certain cymbal sounds may be 
incrementally better than others, but the machine-gun effect 
generally remains in evidence. If it's any consolation, I've noticed 
that the brand of cymbal can make a difference as well (but don't ask 
me to explain how). The choking seems fake because it is . . . well, 
fake. I never thought that it was so bad, though, except for unwanted 
chokes, which is bad enough. But apparently the PCY65S is better in 
that respect than the 80S. The more expensive modules tend to handle 
these functions more gracefully. Once the bit and sampling rates 
improve, and samples begin either to carry more information or to 
link up with better effects, cymbal rolling at a modest price should 
become more realistic. Ddrum, for example, is much more convincing in 
that regard, despite having only an 18 bit engine.

Ed

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <jayluv6@y...> wrote:
> ok, i may be missing something here, but how do you roll on a cymbal
> without it sounding like banging on a cheapa$$ keyboard? is there 
any
> way to make it sound natural? this is the first flaw i've seen with
> the DTX so far, and it's a pretty big one. along the same lines,
> choking the cymbal sounds completely fake as well. what's the deal? 
is
> there any way to make those crashes sound like a real cymbal?
> 
> and if you haven't checked it out yet, download my song
> (01_01-04-2004.mp3 in the MP3 folder). i'm dying for some 
feedback!!!

Jay, thanks for putting up your material, it was pretty cool. I wish 
more people would put up more mp3's, I love listening to the private 
sector, just wish there was more to check out, solos messin around, 
whatever.
Rob

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <jayluv6@y...> wrote:
> ok, i may be missing something here, but how do you roll on a 
cymbal
> without it sounding like banging on a cheapa$$ keyboard? is there 
any
> way to make it sound natural? this is the first flaw i've seen with
> the DTX so far, and it's a pretty big one.

I use my DTX in a country band, and I only need a cymbal roll in a 
few songs. I make sure I'm playing a kit with "SoftRoll" programmed 
into one of the pads. But it can be frustrating if you need a 
continuous loud crash.

this works best when done on a non-choking cymbal, but the nature of midi is
that each hit is a new event which re-initiates the sound in the module.
This stops the reverb you so carefully set up in your voice settings. If you
think about it- the self-rejection setting is one aspect of this design and
might actually make the stutter effect worse. Recently I was playing some
music that required a cymbal roll with mallets- I used an actual cymbal.

-----Original Message-----
From: emf [mailto:liberatusvirus@...]
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 2:53 PM
To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DTXpress] Re: Cymbal Rolls


--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <jayluv6@y...> wrote:
> ok, i may be missing something here, but how do you roll on a cymbal
> without it sounding like banging on a cheapa$$ keyboard? is there
any
> way to make it sound natural? this is the first flaw i've seen with
> the DTX so far, and it's a pretty big one. along the same lines,
> choking the cymbal sounds completely fake as well. what's the deal?
is
> there any way to make those crashes sound like a real cymbal?
>
> and if you haven't checked it out yet, download my song
> (01_01-04-2004.mp3 in the MP3 folder). i'm dying for some
feedback!!!

I agree. Cymbal rolling is a weakness of the DTXpress module. The
module seems unable to compensate for the fact that each new strike
of an e-cymbal, unlike that of an acoustic cymbal, is a completely
new event, without the benefit of the natural vibration and decay of
the one that preceded it. Experimenting with the decay setting in the
voice menu might help a little bit, and certain cymbal sounds may be
incrementally better than others, but the machine-gun effect
generally remains in evidence. If it's any consolation, I've noticed
that the brand of cymbal can make a difference as well (but don't ask
me to explain how). The choking seems fake because it is . . . well,
fake. I never thought that it was so bad, though, except for unwanted
chokes, which is bad enough. But apparently the PCY65S is better in
that respect than the 80S. The more expensive modules tend to handle
these functions more gracefully. Once the bit and sampling rates
improve, and samples begin either to carry more information or to
link up with better effects, cymbal rolling at a modest price should
become more realistic. Ddrum, for example, is much more convincing in
that regard, despite having only an 18 bit engine.

Ed


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