Digital BW, The Print

I'm trying to decide whether to go with a Carbon-6 type inkset or the 7800-EBHP inkset in my 4880. I'll be using QTR.

In his Carbon-6 inkset, Paul uses 2 channels of 30% Eboni, and three channels of 9% Eboni.  What is the benefit of using multiple channels of the same dilution?  Would using more dilutions be at all beneficial? How do the various dilutions of Eboni affect settling?

With regards to the HPPK and dilutions, how good of a glossy print do these make minus glop? (I believe that glop is fairly clog prone.) Would applying Renaissance Wax to the prints minimize bronzing enough to make high quality prints?

"Peter" <pdesmidt@...> wrote:
>
> I'm trying to decide whether to go with a Carbon-6 type inkset or the 7800-EBHP inkset in my 4880. I'll be using QTR.
> 
> In his Carbon-6 inkset, Paul uses 2 channels of 30% Eboni, and three channels of 9% Eboni. 

What PDF are you looking at?  

In http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf I "re-use" M and LM for the Lk and LLk positions of K3 printers.  

The "EZ" hextone setup, such as the R2 inkset for the 220, did use, in effect, two 30% equivalent positions and three 9% equivalent positions.  This simplified maintenance (fewer inks) and gave a very good ramp with the Epson driver and no special profiles.

In my 7800 I use Eboni 100% as well as 30%, 18%, 9%, and 6% dilutions (using C6c dilution base).  I also have MIS PK, LK, and LLK loaded (for the local museum's photo restoration sepia tone printing on Museo Silver Rag).

I had previous had HP PK, Lk (30%) and LLK (9%), but found I never used them.

> What is the benefit of using multiple channels of the same dilution?

They'll help hide microbanding and with the K3 LK and LLK having different cross-overs (with the Epson driver) they'll help hide the cross-over points.  With QTR you can set up same density inks as "toners" with different cross-overs also.

I probably would not set up a wide format printer with too many same-density inks.  Actually, I think the 2%'s slightly more neutral printing argues in favor of having it in any Eboni/Carbon-6 printer.  At the dense end, the 18% can cover the gap to the K.  So, if I were redoing my 7800 I might pull the 30% and add a 2% position.

> How do the various dilutions of Eboni affect settling?

The K and the Y show the least affects of settling.  They all settle (as do all pigments; Eboni is just faster). 

 
> With regards to the HPPK and dilutions, how good of a glossy print do these make minus glop?

Bad bronzing.  That's one reason I'm looking at Claria/Noritsu K for my gallery brochures.

>(I believe that glop is fairly clog prone.)

I prefer not to use it also.

On the other hand, my 7800 with MIS PK, LK, and LLK (which use glop as their base) has been clog free with the MIS glossy inks in it.  Some have diluted the HP pigs with glop and found the bronzing to me much less than if the generic base is used.  The generic base shows about the same degree of bronzing as does the OEM base.

> Would applying Renaissance Wax to the prints minimize bronzing enough to make high quality prints?

I prefer the solvent based sprays, but they are not good for us or the environment.  (Actually, I prefer to avoid the necessity of any post printing treatment.)

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Thank you, Paul!

So one candidate inkset would be:
Eboni,
30% Eboni
18% Eboni,
9% Eboni,
6% Eboni,
2% Eboni

With these inks two spaces would still be available. Perhaps adding MIS LK
and LLK would be valuable as warm toners?  Or would there be a better option
for those two spots?

Would there be any advantages to using a base other than C6a (55% distilled
water, 35% glycerol, and 10% Kodak Photo-Flow 200, all by weight.) ?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"pdesmidt tds.net" <pdesmidt@...> wrote:
>


> So one candidate inkset would be:
> Eboni,
> 30% Eboni
> 18% Eboni,
> 9% Eboni,
> 6% Eboni,
> 2% Eboni

That is the standard Eboni/Carbon-6 set.  


> With these inks two spaces would still be available. 

Yes, that's why the recommended full K3 set uses Eb6-M and LM (18% and 6%) as the Lk and LLk also.  This allows an ICC controlled, Epson driver workflow, which I believe is the easiest.  

I prefer an ICC made with the QTR Create ICC-RGB program and an embedded Photoshop curve that uses the maximum 2% dilution.  It makes a very easy, color managed workflow that prints the most neutral prints on the low-delta-b papers.


> Perhaps adding MIS LK
> and LLK would be valuable as warm toners?

Yes, if you like warmer images on matte paper, the MIS glossy carbon pigments will do the job.  These get to about Lab b = 8 on typical papers.  If you add an MIS PK and print on glossy paper, you get to lab b = 14.  And that's beginning to look like a true sepia tone.


> Would there be any advantages to using a base other than
> C6a (55% distilled water, 35% glycerol, and 10% Kodak 
> Photo-Flow 200, all by weight.) 

Yes, I think it's worthwhile to use the Edwal surfactant (dilution base C6b (p.5 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Ink-Mixing.pdf) 
as well as Photo-Flo.  It's readily available and the additional surfactant seems to help with respect to not only a little smoothness but also maybe cleaning (as least in the test tube).

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

I can think of a way to make a qtr curve that would maximise the use of the 2% dilution as follows(think it would work?)
In addition to using a qtr-BO(for cooling/neutrality) curve and a qtr-eb6 curve one could make a third "cooling" qtr curve (also for "cooling" as you seem to suggest).  This third qtr curve would only use eboni-mk and the 2% dilution.  by increasing the ink limit of the 2% dilution sufficiently (without going overboard) one could create a curve in qtr which would maximise the use of 2%.  then, for final printing one could blend the three curves(BO, EB6, and max2%) in order to maximise smoothness while keeping tone cooler.  
I might be totally off.  have not used qtr in 3 years and am waiting for my epson 1400 along with my EB6 inks!!!  looking forward to your inks paul!
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote:

>
> "pdesmidt tds.net" <pdesmidt@> wrote:
> >
> 
> 
> > So one candidate inkset would be:
> > Eboni,
> > 30% Eboni
> > 18% Eboni,
> > 9% Eboni,
> > 6% Eboni,
> > 2% Eboni
> 
> That is the standard Eboni/Carbon-6 set.  
> 
> 
> > With these inks two spaces would still be available. 
> 
> Yes, that's why the recommended full K3 set uses Eb6-M and LM (18% and 6%) as the Lk and LLk also.  This allows an ICC controlled, Epson driver workflow, which I believe is the easiest.  
> 
> I prefer an ICC made with the QTR Create ICC-RGB program and an embedded Photoshop curve that uses the maximum 2% dilution.  It makes a very easy, color managed workflow that prints the most neutral prints on the low-delta-b papers.
> 
> 
> > Perhaps adding MIS LK
> > and LLK would be valuable as warm toners?
> 
> Yes, if you like warmer images on matte paper, the MIS glossy carbon pigments will do the job.  These get to about Lab b = 8 on typical papers.  If you add an MIS PK and print on glossy paper, you get to lab b = 14.  And that's beginning to look like a true sepia tone.
> 
> 
> > Would there be any advantages to using a base other than
> > C6a (55% distilled water, 35% glycerol, and 10% Kodak 
> > Photo-Flow 200, all by weight.) 
> 
> Yes, I think it's worthwhile to use the Edwal surfactant (dilution base C6b (p.5 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Ink-Mixing.pdf) 
> as well as Photo-Flo.  It's readily available and the additional surfactant seems to help with respect to not only a little smoothness but also maybe cleaning (as least in the test tube).
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>