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2010-12-09 by Louis de Stoutz
I have a hard time finding Photo-Flo in Europe: I get the answer that Kodak doesn't produce the small 50ml bottles anymore. Does anybody know of a replacement product? E.g. Tetenal's wetting agent is readily available here, but does it work for Paul's dilution base? Louis
2010-12-09 by Mike King
You should be able to get photoflo 200 it's more concentrated than the 600 in the USA. It's a 500ml bottle. Can definitely get it in uk from silverprint in London. I use 50% of the amount. Mike On 9 Dec 2010, at 12:29, Louis de Stoutz <loudest@...> wrote:o > I have a hard time finding Photo-Flo in Europe: I get the answer that > Kodak doesn't produce the small 50ml bottles anymore. > > Does anybody know of a replacement product? E.g. Tetenal's wetting agent > is readily available here, but does it work for Paul's dilution base? > > Louis > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2010-12-09 by Mark Savoia
I have a gallon size of it, enough for 2 lifetimes. If you want some (small bottle) just pay the shipping and it is yours. Mark http://www.stillrivereditions.com
On Dec 9, 2010, at 7:29 AM, Louis de Stoutz wrote: > I have a hard time finding Photo-Flo in Europe: I get the answer that > Kodak doesn't produce the small 50ml bottles anymore. > > Does anybody know of a replacement product? E.g. Tetenal's wetting agent > is readily available here, but does it work for Paul's dilution base? > > Louis
2010-12-09 by Louis de Stoutz
Thanks for your kind offer, Mark! I will consider it as a last resort should everything else fail. Louis
On 09.12.2010 13:46, Mark Savoia wrote: > I have a gallon size of it, enough for 2 lifetimes. If you want some (small bottle) just pay the shipping and it is yours. > > Mark > http://www.stillrivereditions.com > > On Dec 9, 2010, at 7:29 AM, Louis de Stoutz wrote: > >> I have a hard time finding Photo-Flo in Europe: I get the answer that >> Kodak doesn't produce the small 50ml bottles anymore. >> >> Does anybody know of a replacement product? E.g. Tetenal's wetting agent >> is readily available here, but does it work for Paul's dilution base? >> >> Louis > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >
2010-12-09 by Paul
> You should be able to get photoflo 200 it's more concentrated than the 600 in the USA. ... The 600 is the more concentrated one -- 3 times the surfactant than the consumer oriented 200. The Photo Flo 600, aimed at photofinishers as opposed to consumers, also has a somewhat toxic but probably more effective version of glycol in it. (So don't drink it!) Paul www.PaulRoark.com
2010-12-09 by Louis de Stoutz
Paul, you say "The 600 is ... 3 times the surfactant than the consumer oriented 200" but in your instructions you mention either the same proportions as the 200, or maybe half. It isn't very critical then? Has anybody else used the "600"? Louis
On 09.12.2010 16:56, Paul wrote: > >> You should be able to get photoflo 200 it's more concentrated than the 600 in the USA. ... > > > The 600 is the more concentrated one -- 3 times the surfactant than the consumer oriented 200. The Photo Flo 600, aimed at photofinishers as opposed to consumers, also has a somewhat toxic but probably more effective version of glycol in it. (So don't drink it!) > > Paul > www.PaulRoark.com > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >
2010-12-09 by Michael King
Photo-flo 600 is stronger (1+600) you can get it @ Silverprint in UK http://www.silverprint.co.uk/PDF/Chemistry_06.pdf I use 600 at 50% of the amount Paul has for 200. Mike <http://www.silverprint.co.uk/PDF/Chemistry_06.pdf> On 9 December 2010 20:51, Louis de Stoutz <loudest@...> wrote: > Paul, you say > "The 600 is ... 3 times the surfactant than the consumer oriented 200" > but in your instructions you mention either the same proportions as the > 200, or maybe half. It isn't very critical then? > Has anybody else used the "600"? > > Louis > > On 09.12.2010 16:56, Paul wrote: > > > >> You should be able to get photoflo 200 it's more concentrated than the > 600 in the USA. ... > > > > > > The 600 is the more concentrated one -- 3 times the surfactant than the > consumer oriented 200. The Photo Flo 600, aimed at photofinishers as > opposed to consumers, also has a somewhat toxic but probably more effective > version of glycol in it. (So don't drink it!) > > > > Paul > > www.PaulRoark.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources > as they are often being updated. > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same > page. > > > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to > keep them short. > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the > membership without notice. > > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from > the membership. > > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and > Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files section: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND > �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU > FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY > DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, > GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE �OWNER� AND > �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE > POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY > TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR > ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY > THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER > MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as > they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same > page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep > them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the > membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from > the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and > Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND > �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU > FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY > DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, > GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE �OWNER� AND > �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE > POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY > TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR > ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY > THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER > MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2010-12-09 by Paul
If Mike is having good results with 50%, I'd go with it. Paul --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Louis de Stoutz <loudest@...> wrote:
> > Paul, you say > "The 600 is ... 3 times the surfactant than the consumer oriented 200" > but in your instructions you mention either the same proportions as the > 200, or maybe half. It isn't very critical then? > Has anybody else used the "600"? > > Louis > > On 09.12.2010 16:56, Paul wrote: > > > >> You should be able to get photoflo 200 it's more concentrated than the 600 in the USA. ... > > > > > > The 600 is the more concentrated one -- 3 times the surfactant than the consumer oriented 200. The Photo Flo 600, aimed at photofinishers as opposed to consumers, also has a somewhat toxic but probably more effective version of glycol in it. (So don't drink it!) > > > > Paul > > www.PaulRoark.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. > > > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. > > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. > > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >
2010-12-10 by horstenj
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mike King <drmrking@...> wrote: > > You should be able to get photoflo 200 it's more concentrated than the 600 in the USA. It's a 500ml bottle. Can definitely get it in uk from silverprint in London. Also in the Netherlands I had no problem to find the same product as Mike refers to. Joost
2010-12-10 by Michael King
Just to be clear I got these two the wrong way round in this first email ... Its the 600 that you get here in EU. On 10 December 2010 06:51, horstenj <j.h.j.h@...> wrote: > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>, > Mike King <drmrking@...> wrote: > > > > You should be able to get photoflo 200 it's more concentrated than the > 600 in the USA. It's a 500ml bottle. Can definitely get it in uk from > silverprint in London. > > Also in the Netherlands I had no problem to find the same product as Mike > refers to. > > Joost > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2010-12-10 by Tony Sleep
On 09/12/2010 Louis de Stoutz wrote: > I have a hard time finding Photo-Flo in Europe: I get the answer that > Kodak doesn't produce the small 50ml bottles anymore. Did it ever? The only sizes I remember (since the mid 1970's) are 1L and 5L. 5L was only available for Photoflo 600, which was best avoided : stored at low temps it developed a flocculate which rendered it unusable. (It cost a mint and I ended up having to throw away about 4.8L) Process Supplies (superb, BTW) in London sells Photoflo; this will be 1L of Photoflo200 at 19.73GBP. See item 6 at http://tinyurl.com/36s4nwb For film use I far preferred Ifotol, it was cleaner working and less prone to greasy drying marks (which were a racing certainty with Photoflo if you followed Kodak's 200:1 dilution, 2000:1 was safer). Ilfotol is still available and is cheaper at 1L for 10.42GBP, see item 2 at http://tinyurl.com/3ykgzvz - but I have no idea how it may work within Paul's ink formulations. -- Regards Tony Sleep http://tonysleep.co.uk
2010-12-10 by -= Chris =-
Dunno, but this is normal behavior of the product. All you needed to do, is gently warm the product and stir until clear. The product does have a 'cloud' temperature point, but that does not diminish it's qualities. All it is, is a solution of Triton-X 100, a common surfactant used in many household products, and a solubilizer. Most of these solubilizer do become cloudy as the temperature drops, and do require an above room temperature to bring it back into solution. Hence more dilute solutions are sold to the general public for easier handling. But, hey, a little chemical background can save you money, buy the concentrate and mix 'secundum artum'. The Photoflo 600 Rx 300-400 Water 370 Ethylene glycol 250-300 Triton X-100, the product's active ingredient Total = 1000 The water / Triton blend are not critical, only need to be in that range. The final WORKING solution should be: 990 Water 5 Ethylene glycol 5 Triton X-100 Total = 1000 There are many Tritons (aka Igepal), some which look like waxy cream at room temperature. They have different o/w - w/o capabilities, and th X-100 is the most common. As you can see the Ethylene glycol/Triton amount to only a 0.5% solution. There is really no need for the ethylene glycol, except to pretty up the product so that the concentrate look clear. In any event, if you get your hands on pure Triton, and DO make a 0.5% solution with mixing and gentle heat, the product will be clear. Higher concentration would cause streaking.... the streaks being the deposition of glycol and Triton on the surface. FWIW, this is what I used in the B&W days. ----- "Tony Sleep" <TonySleep@...> wrote:
> On 09/12/2010 Louis de Stoutz wrote: > 5L. 5L was only available for Photoflo 600, which was best avoided : > stored at low temps it developed a flocculate which rendered it > unusable. > (It cost a mint and I ended up having to throw away about 4.8L)
2010-12-10 by -= Chris =-
Tritons: http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/rw1611891.html Think of the cloudyness like ice particles in water.... it's still water, a little heat, and 'poof' all clear. ----- "-= Chris =-" <baudec@...> wrote:
> Dunno, but this is normal behavior of the product. All you needed to > do, is gently warm the product and stir until clear. The product does > have a 'cloud' temperature point, but that does not diminish it's > qualities. > > All it is, is a solution of Triton-X 100, a common surfactant used in > many household products, and a solubilizer.
2010-12-11 by Tony Sleep
On 10/12/2010 -= Chris =- wrote: > Dunno, but this is normal behavior of the product. All you needed to > do, is gently warm the product and stir until clear. I tried that. It didn't just turn cloudy, it formed large sheets of a slimy, soft, whitish gossamer material that did not redissolve. Stirring or shaking just broke it up, warm or cold. The container had a clear warning on it about never exposing to low temps (below 40F IIRC but it was a long time ago), which I only read after the event. -- Regards Tony Sleep http://tonysleep.co.uk
2010-12-11 by -= Chris =-
What may have worked is the addition of water and then some warming/heat and shaking in the bottle. Rationale: There may have been a loss of water or solubility due to physical reasons. Adding water to the concentrate would allow the Triton & glycol to mix. Keeping track of the water added and adding this to the final equation would keep everything balanced. They key here is not to take a shaken portion of the concentrate and adding water to that, but adding water to the whole concentrate. Any portion taken from the concentrate would no be equal in ratio to the original. What may unknowingly happen, is that the product congealed (e.g cloudiness) an separated into layers. The user takes some product to dilute, and unknowingly siphons off part of the top layer which appear very clear. Now the product is TOO concentrated, and will never do back into a clear solution. Hence the need to add water back to get the water / Triton level back to the proper proportion. FWIW, it's a nuisance with brown bottles, as you never really see what is going on. We did some tests, and the basic fact, is that for most product, unless stored in full sunlight or a window, placing it in dark brown or blue bottles serves no purpose except to give you a false sense of security and hide cosmetic or stability problems. -= Chris =- ----- "Tony Sleep" <TonySleep@halftone.co.uk> wrote:
> On 10/12/2010 -= Chris =- wrote: > > Dunno, but this is normal behavior of the product. All you needed to > > > do, is gently warm the product and stir until clear. > > I tried that. It didn't just turn cloudy, it formed large sheets of a > > slimy, soft, whitish gossamer material that did not redissolve. > Stirring > or shaking just broke it up, warm or cold. > > The container had a clear warning on it about never exposing to low > temps > (below 40F IIRC but it was a long time ago), which I only read after > the > event. > -- > Regards > > Tony Sleep > http://tonysleep.co.uk > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other > resources as they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting > this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to > keep them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from > the membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be > removed from the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group > Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the > Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� > AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE > LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE > LOSSES (EVEN IF THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), > RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF > YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD > PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER > MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >
2010-12-11 by Tony Sleep
On 11/12/2010 -= Chris =- wrote: > The user takes some product to dilute, and unknowingly siphons off > part of the top layer which appear very clear. Now the product is > TOO concentrated, and will never do back into a clear solution. > Hence the need to add water back to get the water / Triton level back > to the proper proportion. Well, it's a plausible theory. I normally used PF200 back then and never had any issues with that, perhaps due to lower concentration, but one time my supplier only had 5L of 600. I never actually used the stuff after it separated, there was no way I was letting it anywhere near film. I kept it for several years as I couldn't think of a sensible way of disposing of it. I was quite tempted to tip the lot into the Trafalgar Square fountains on NY eve, in the hope of a few hundred cu.meters of bubbles, but it wasn't really foamy enough and I'd probably have got arrested anyhow. -- Regards Tony Sleep http://tonysleep.co.uk
2010-12-11 by dlruckus
That is also my experience.Over a half century ago I used both versions as final rinse with dip-n-dunk lines for B&W. Never had a problem with PF200 but the 600 always degenerated into slime filled solutions which left gunk all over the negatives. My personal take was that something in the 600 polymerized and became insoluble. Regards, Duane --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tony Sleep <TonySleep@...> wrote:
> > On 10/12/2010 -= Chris =- wrote: > > Dunno, but this is normal behavior of the product. All you needed to > > do, is gently warm the product and stir until clear. > > I tried that. It didn't just turn cloudy, it formed large sheets of a > slimy, soft, whitish gossamer material that did not redissolve. Stirring > or shaking just broke it up, warm or cold. > > The container had a clear warning on it about never exposing to low temps > (below 40F IIRC but it was a long time ago), which I only read after the > event. > -- > Regards > > Tony Sleep > http://tonysleep.co.uk >