Digital BW, The Print

Hello,
I went into B&W printing with an Epson R-285 (r-280 in the US I think) and the ultratone 3d. I bought the ink and cartridges here in Germany and could get 3 free icc profiles for my main papers. Everything works fine and the prints (especially the matte ones on tecco paper) are wonderful. But with glossy prints (less on semigloss) especially on harman gloss baryta, the pure black ink (100% on a printed grey-step) looks not good. Its hard to see in normal prints, if there are no bigger black areas, but if it looks kind of shiny (don�t know if that is called bronzing). I think the profiles are good.I read Paul prints glossy and matte with MK in the printer. I read quite a bit about that, but had no luck with doing an own Profile, because I have no idea how to et the black with the dark grey inks. I tried the start glossy file but didn�t got anything usable. Has anybody done profiles for UT3d glossy prints with Eboni-MK installed for r-280 or r-380 from which I can at least start to own experiments?

Marcus

"luxlebis" <luxlebis@...> wrote:
>
> ... printing with an Epson R-285 (r-280 in the US I think) and the ultratone 3d. ...
> with glossy prints ... the pure black ink (100% on a printed grey-step) looks ... kind of shiny ...


Yes, sometimes there can be a noticeable glossy differential.

> I read Paul prints glossy and matte with MK in the printer.

The default ink setup uses Eboni MK in the K position.  The M and C are used to generate the black if glossy paper is used.  At http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/UT-3D_Readme.pdf I have a link to profiles for the 220.  If you look at the Photoshop curves that control the glossy printing, you'll see how it works.  The MK is turned on by all the curves - R, G, and B -- going to 100%.  If one of them is diverted back to 0, no MK will be injected. 

Note that you can control the mix of the UT3-M (cool) and C (warm carbon) to see if that affects the gloss differential.  You also can pull them back from 100% to see if a lower load reduces the problem.

(As you can tell from my Claria/Noritsu dye printing, I'm not a fan of pigments on glossy paper.)

Hope this helps.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> "luxlebis" <luxlebis@> wrote:
> >
> > ... printing with an Epson R-285 (r-280 in the US I think) and the ultratone 3d. ...
> > with glossy prints ... the pure black ink (100% on a printed grey-step) looks ... kind of shiny ...
> 
> 
> Yes, sometimes there can be a noticeable glossy differential.
> 
> > I read Paul prints glossy and matte with MK in the printer.
> 
> The default ink setup uses Eboni MK in the K position.  The M and C are used to generate the black if glossy paper is used.  At http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/UT-3D_Readme.pdf I have a link to profiles for the 220.  If you look at the Photoshop curves that control the glossy printing, you'll see how it works.  The MK is turned on by all the curves - R, G, and B -- going to 100%.  If one of them is diverted back to 0, no MK will be injected. 
> 
> Note that you can control the mix of the UT3-M (cool) and C (warm carbon) to see if that affects the gloss differential.  You also can pull them back from 100% to see if a lower load reduces the problem.
> 
> (As you can tell from my Claria/Noritsu dye printing, I'm not a fan of pigments on glossy paper.)
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>
Thank you Paul, I tried the curves in the link and they printed way to light with my r-285. I hope I didn´t make mistakes. I just worked out a RGB-picture, then applied the curve to it, but was unsure which further printer-settings tochoose. I realized must take some time and get into curves/profile-making. Did I mention, that the problem occurs with the PKN-ink installed! 

Thanks a lot

Marcus

"luxlebis" <luxlebis@...> wrote:

...
>  I tried the curves in the link and they printed way to light with my r-285.


The curves were for the 220, but they show the approach -- at least with Eboni installed.  Note that if a 21-step test print produces a smooth curve, even if light, it might linearize with Create ICC-RGB.  See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Embedding_Photoshop_Curves_in_ICCs.pdf


When PKN is installed, run all of the curves up to the full-on position to turn on the K position.  You'll have to come up with your own curves.  

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote:
>
> "luxlebis" <luxlebis@> wrote:
> 
> ...
> >  I tried the curves in the link and they printed way to light with my r-285.
> 
> 
> The curves were for the 220, but they show the approach -- at least with Eboni installed.  Note that if a 21-step test print produces a smooth curve, even if light, it might linearize with Create ICC-RGB.  See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Embedding_Photoshop_Curves_in_ICCs.pdf
> 
> 
> When PKN is installed, run all of the curves up to the full-on position to turn on the K position.  You'll have to come up with your own curves.  
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>
Thank you !
I will start my experiments
By the way I´m overall much more impressed by the matte prints, and maybe I will buy a larger printer and try with eboni6 when I said good by to my darkroom, what sure will happen soon after seeing the results  with utd3 in the last two weeeks.

Marcus

Paul,

we've had numerous people chime in and give you sincere thanks for your help to their problems.

Now I'm somewhat of a lurker on the list, but I feel compelled to say you're a Prince among men, you've got such a generous spirit and make it such a privelege to be part of the group.

I've personally benefitted from your work and your generosity and I'm just feeling the urge to say so right now

peace out

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "luxlebis" <luxlebis@...> wrote:

>
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@> wrote:
> >
> > "luxlebis" <luxlebis@> wrote:
> > 
> > ...
> > >  I tried the curves in the link and they printed way to light with my r-285.
> > 
> > 
> > The curves were for the 220, but they show the approach -- at least with Eboni installed.  Note that if a 21-step test print produces a smooth curve, even if light, it might linearize with Create ICC-RGB.  See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Embedding_Photoshop_Curves_in_ICCs.pdf
> > 
> > 
> > When PKN is installed, run all of the curves up to the full-on position to turn on the K position.  You'll have to come up with your own curves.  
> > 
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> >
> Thank you !
> I will start my experiments
> By the way I´m overall much more impressed by the matte prints, and maybe I will buy a larger printer and try with eboni6 when I said good by to my darkroom, what sure will happen soon after seeing the results  with utd3 in the last two weeeks.
> 
> Marcus
>

My words thanks a lot to Paul and his helpfullness here


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glennrbarry@...> wrote:

>
> Paul,
> 
> we've had numerous people chime in and give you sincere thanks for your help to their problems.
> 
> Now I'm somewhat of a lurker on the list, but I feel compelled to say you're a Prince among men, you've got such a generous spirit and make it such a privelege to be part of the group.
> 
> I've personally benefitted from your work and your generosity and I'm just feeling the urge to say so right now
> 
> peace out
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "luxlebis" <luxlebis@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@> wrote:
> > >
> > > "luxlebis" <luxlebis@> wrote:
> > > 
> > > ...
> > > >  I tried the curves in the link and they printed way to light with my r-285.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > The curves were for the 220, but they show the approach -- at least with Eboni installed.  Note that if a 21-step test print produces a smooth curve, even if light, it might linearize with Create ICC-RGB.  See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Embedding_Photoshop_Curves_in_ICCs.pdf
> > > 
> > > 
> > > When PKN is installed, run all of the curves up to the full-on position to turn on the K position.  You'll have to come up with your own curves.  
> > > 
> > > Paul
> > > www.PaulRoark.com
> > >
> > Thank you !
> > I will start my experiments
> > By the way I´m overall much more impressed by the matte prints, and maybe I will buy a larger printer and try with eboni6 when I said good by to my darkroom, what sure will happen soon after seeing the results  with utd3 in the last two weeeks.
> > 
> > Marcus
> >
>

Hallo Paul,
I read through some of your pdfs and made an own icc (scanner with 50%-reference) for your lenswork warm curve. I did it for
Harman Gloss Baryta with MK installed (dark greys for black).
I�m in heaven: It looks absolutely great, with lesser gloss differential than with the PKN. Wow! Many thanks!

Marcus

Marcus. 

What printer and inks are you using.  

Paul Grant

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 1, 2012, at 11:06 AM, "luxlebis" <luxlebis@...> wrote:

> 
> Hallo Paul,
> I read through some of your pdfs and made an own icc (scanner with 50%-reference) for your lenswork warm curve. I did it for
> Harman Gloss Baryta with MK installed (dark greys for black).
> I´m in heaven: It looks absolutely great, with lesser gloss differential than with the PKN. Wow! Many thanks!
> 
> Marcus
> 
> 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,
Printer is: Epson R285 (I guess it is R280 in the  US)
Inkset is: Ultratone 3d 
Curve was from Utratone 3d downloadpage from Paul Roark and uses the two dark greys for black (I could leave MK unused in the printer).
I think it was made for Permajet FB-Paper. I relinearized it
for Harman Gloss Baryta. After making the icc it was a bit less warm.
I´m not quite sure if i got the process quite right. I applied the curve to the 21-steptab, the n printed it out with UPG and gamma 2.2 no colormanagement. I scanned it with a print that I made of the steptab with an already existing profile and scanned them together. The print with the curve was light and very warm. i followed the instructions of Paul Roarks pdf : making iccs with a flatbedscanner. In the end  I got a perfect greyscale and very good looking prints. The relinearized profile does´t look as the first print of the (way to light) 21-step with just the curve applied. I don´t exactly understand what the icc does. 

Marcus


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m, Paul Grant <studiopbg@...> wrote:

>
> Marcus. 
> 
> What printer and inks are you using.  
> 
> Paul Grant
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Feb 1, 2012, at 11:06 AM, "luxlebis" <luxlebis@...> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Hallo Paul,
> > I read through some of your pdfs and made an own icc (scanner with 50%-reference) for your lenswork warm curve. I did it for
> > Harman Gloss Baryta with MK installed (dark greys for black).
> > I´m in heaven: It looks absolutely great, with lesser gloss differential than with the PKN. Wow! Many thanks!
> > 
> > Marcus
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>