Digital BW, The Print

Howdy folks,
My name is Clark and I've been a long time member and lurker of this group. I've messed about a bit on a 1400 with MIS UT-14 inkset. In fact I have a bulk ink system for it that is still sitting in the box untouched since I got it a few years ago. I think I still have a license for QTR that I was running on my Mac under Tiger.

My bread and butter is art reproductions that I capture with a Betterlight scanning back and output to canvas and cotton rag papers on a 9900 and 7800. Which brings up the reason for this post. The 7800 seems to be just sitting around waiting for its nozzles to clog and I'm considering repurposing it to a dedicated black and white printer. Not really happy with the Epson ABW mode and am interested in setting it up with an all black inkset. 

I have an eye1 with ProfileMaker as well as a dtp-41 and Monaco so I am comfortable making profiles and linearizing etc.

I also understand that there are some folks printing on bare paper and that intrigues me.

I'm looking for advice and suggestions for what to do with this delinquent 7800. The little reprobate just sits in the corner with nothing to do all day. You know what they say about an idle mind.

Peace and thanks in advance for any suggestions on how to get started.

Clark

This is what I currently have in my 7800:
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/7800-EbHP-2013.pdf.  It's only for matte
paper, although the HP inks are glossy compatible.

At http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/  I have some photos that show the
range of tones that carbon can achieve.  The rather neutral one used a
brightened paper.  To avoid this and still get to a more neutral tone, I
put the HP based neutral/cool inks in as toners for the carbon.  When I
wanted warmer prints, I had MIS glossy carbon in the printer as well as
Eboni carbon.

What tones and paper types you like best might be the place to start your
search for a B&W inksets.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 7:29 AM, zubovak <bildad@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Howdy folks,
> My name is Clark and I've been a long time member and lurker of this
> group. I've messed about a bit on a 1400 with MIS UT-14 inkset. In fact I
> have a bulk ink system for it that is still sitting in the box untouched
> since I got it a few years ago. I think I still have a license for QTR that
> I was running on my Mac under Tiger.
>
> My bread and butter is art reproductions that I capture with a Betterlight
> scanning back and output to canvas and cotton rag papers on a 9900 and
> 7800. Which brings up the reason for this post. The 7800 seems to be just
> sitting around waiting for its nozzles to clog and I'm considering
> repurposing it to a dedicated black and white printer. Not really happy
> with the Epson ABW mode and am interested in setting it up with an all
> black inkset.
>
> I have an eye1 with ProfileMaker as well as a dtp-41 and Monaco so I am
> comfortable making profiles and linearizing etc.
>
> I also understand that there are some folks printing on bare paper and
> that intrigues me.
>
> I'm looking for advice and suggestions for what to do with this delinquent
> 7800. The little reprobate just sits in the corner with nothing to do all
> day. You know what they say about an idle mind.
>
> Peace and thanks in advance for any suggestions on how to get started.
>
> Clark
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From:  Paul Roark

This is what I currently have in my 7800:
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/7800-EbHP-2013.pdf. It's only for matte
paper, although the HP inks are glossy compatible.

Paul,

I get lost in the very first sentenceŠ

"This approach is aimed at making the best possible matte prints in the
neutral to warm range. It combines Eboni-6, the most neutral (least warm)
dilute 100% carbon inkset, with HP Z3100/3200 neutral/cool gray pigments to
give a variable-tone inkset that, based on multiple tests of the underlying
pigments, likely makes the most lightfast prints within that target range."

To me, this seems to say that the Eboni-6 inks are neutral (not brown) and
the HP inks are neutral/cool (also not brown). I'm lost.

In an Epson 3800, what inks would you use for the warmest prints possible on
matte papers? (If I understand correctly, the HP inks would not be needed at
all for this.)


David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

www.davidkachel.com
david@...

Gallery:
www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
director@...

PO Box  1893
Alpine, TX 79831
(432) 386-5787




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

David,

No carbon pigment is neutral, but Eboni-based carbons are the least warm.
 The HP Z3200 based inks are a neutral/cool blend of carbon and color
pigments.  I think they are the best neutral blend pigments we have
available to us.  (Hopefully I'll be able to get to MIS's new beta neutral
in September that it hopes will narrow  the gap between these HP inks and
the third party neutral inks.)

For more warmth, I use the MIS glossy carbons -- the K4 PK, LK, and LLK.
 (On matte papers, Jon's carbon sepia would be about the same.)

In a 4000 I set up an inkset with multiple MIS  glossy carbons as well as
the light colors (Epson's) for total control of tone.  See
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/4000-5K-Plus-cmy.pdf  The Y and LM would
allow you to take the already warm carbon much warmer.

(Note that I do not recommend the Epson 4000 for matte paper.  The dmax was
weak.  This criticism of that printer does not apply to the newer Epson
printers.)

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


**
>
>
> From: Paul Roark
>
>
> This is what I currently have in my 7800:
> http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/7800-EbHP-2013.pdf. It's only for matte
> paper, although the HP inks are glossy compatible.
>
> Paul,
>
> I get lost in the very first sentenceŠ
>
> "This approach is aimed at making the best possible matte prints in the
> neutral to warm range. It combines Eboni-6, the most neutral (least warm)
> dilute 100% carbon inkset, with HP Z3100/3200 neutral/cool gray pigments to
> give a variable-tone inkset that, based on multiple tests of the underlying
> pigments, likely makes the most lightfast prints within that target range."
>
> To me, this seems to say that the Eboni-6 inks are neutral (not brown) and
> the HP inks are neutral/cool (also not brown). I'm lost.
>
> In an Epson 3800, what inks would you use for the warmest prints possible
> on
> matte papers? (If I understand correctly, the HP inks would not be needed
> at
> all for this.)
>
> David Kachel
>
> ___________________
>
> Artist-Photographer
> Fine B&W Photographs
>
> www.davidkachel.com
> david@...
>
> Gallery:
> www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
> director@...
>
> PO Box 1893
> Alpine, TX 79831
> (432) 386-5787
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From:  Paul Roark 

"For more warmth, I use the MIS glossy carbons -- the K4 PK, LK, and LLK."

But, you would use those on glossy, not matte paper, correct? So, starting
from this setup from your article:
Y = Eb6-Y (2% Eboni)

LM = Eb6-LM (6% Eboni)

LLK = Eb6-LC (9% Eboni)

M = Eb6-M (18% Eboni)

LK = Eb6-C (30% Eboni)

K = Eboni MK 

How would you alter that list for a 3800, maximum brown/warmth on matte
paper?



David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

www.davidkachel.com
david@...

Gallery:
www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
director@...

PO Box  1893
Alpine, TX 79831
(432) 386-5787







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Eboni would be a bad choice for warm prints on matte paper.  What's special
about it is how neutral it is on those papers.  Cone's Sepia set would be a
better choice.


On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 2:34 PM, David Kachel <david@davidkachel.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
> From: Paul Roark
>
> "For more warmth, I use the MIS glossy carbons -- the K4 PK, LK, and LLK."
>
> But, you would use those on glossy, not matte paper, correct? So, starting
> from this setup from your article:
> Y = Eb6-Y (2% Eboni)
>
> LM = Eb6-LM (6% Eboni)
>
> LLK = Eb6-LC (9% Eboni)
>
> M = Eb6-M (18% Eboni)
>
> LK = Eb6-C (30% Eboni)
>
> K = Eboni MK
>
> How would you alter that list for a 3800, maximum brown/warmth on matte
> paper?
>
>
> David Kachel
>
> ___________________
>
> Artist-Photographer
> Fine B&W Photographs
>
> www.davidkachel.com
> david@...
>
> Gallery:
> www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
> director@...
>
> PO Box 1893
> Alpine, TX 79831
> (432) 386-5787
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 7/18/13 2:38 PM, "pdesmidt tds.net" wrote:

>  Cone's Sepia set would be a
>better choice.



Don't want to pay Cone his high prices, or ever do business with him again.
(Want to buy a completely worthless set of cartridges for the 3800?)
Paul has said the same warm tone can be accomplished with MIS inks, so
that is the way I prefer to go.


David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

www.davidkachel.com
david@...

Gallery:
www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
director@...

PO Box  1893
Alpine, TX 79831
(432) 386-5787

David,

The MIS "glossy" carbon works fine on matte papers also.  You just need
Eboni MK for the K position.

**
>  ... So, starting
> from this setup from your article:
> Y = Eb6-Y (2% Eboni)
>
> LM = Eb6-LM (6% Eboni)
>
> LLK = Eb6-LC (9% Eboni)
>
> M = Eb6-M (18% Eboni)
>
> LK = Eb6-C (30% Eboni)
>
> K = Eboni MK
>
> How would you alter that list for a 3800, maximum brown/warmth on matte
> paper?
>

I generally like a more neutral image.  That is what Eboni is all about and
 why I start with it as my carbon base.  It's the most neutral carbon I've
found.

If I was after greater warmth, I'd use the MIS "glossy" carbon as my
starting point.  I think I posted the URL for the Epson 4000 setup that did
this.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 2013-07-18, at 1:45 PM, David Kachel <david@...> wrote:

> Paul has said the same warm tone can be accomplished with MIS inks, so
> that is the way I prefer to go.

David, I'm running a slightly modified version of an ink set Paul developed called 6KPlus (K6 Plus?) in my 3800. It's based around dilutions of the MIS PK pigments, with Eboni covering the deepest blacks on matte and MIS PK covering the deepest blacks on gloss. LM and LC are used for toning, and neutralizing the carbon pigments. 

The warmest tones you will get on matte will peak around b* values of 4 to 5 (somewhere in the mid tones). Cone's carbon will not be much warmer, if any. I don't think this will come anywhere near what you are looking for, if I understand your needs correctly. Gloss conversely, will peak around 14 (somewhere in the mid tones). That would be yellowish, and adding some LM would allow you to move this toward a "brownish" tonality. 

To get the tones you are after on matte would require Y in the ink set. You could accommodate that in this 3800 using 6KPlus. However, Y is does not fare as well as the other pigments in terms of light fastness. Then again, I suspect you might be better off with this configuration, relative to a full colour ink set, in terms of longevity. Be aware that you will also have three colours to juggle when you build profiles to achieve the tones you want. This is probably quite doable, but more complex than working with two. 

Perhaps Paul can comment in general on the addition of Y to achieve the end result you are looking for. 

Terry.

One thought for David, although he would be very much on his own as I'm not aware of anyone using this approach, would be to look at the American Inkjet Systems inks.  They sell a stronger yellow, red-orange and brown inks as well as the standard colours.  They are not keen on multi K inksets, however by using some of their colours as toners together with the MIS carbon inks I'm sure he could build a very warm custom inkset. It might take a bit of work to get it profiled with QTR though.
 
David Whistance
 

________________________________

 From: Terry Ritz <t.ritz@...>
To: "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> 
Cc: "<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> 
Sent: Thursday, 18 July 2013, 22:44
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Getting Started
  
 
   
 
On 2013-07-18, at 1:45 PM, David Kachel <mailto:david%40davidkachel.com> wrote:

> Paul has said the same warm tone can be accomplished with MIS inks, so
> that is the way I prefer to go.

David, I'm running a slightly modified version of an ink set Paul developed called 6KPlus (K6 Plus?) in my 3800. It's based around dilutions of the MIS PK pigments, with Eboni covering the deepest blacks on matte and MIS PK covering the deepest blacks on gloss. LM and LC are used for toning, and neutralizing the carbon pigments. 

The warmest tones you will get on matte will peak around b* values of 4 to 5 (somewhere in the mid tones). Cone's carbon will not be much warmer, if any. I don't think this will come anywhere near what you are looking for, if I understand your needs correctly. Gloss conversely, will peak around 14 (somewhere in the mid tones). That would be yellowish, and adding some LM would allow you to move this toward a "brownish" tonality. 

To get the tones you are after on matte would require Y in the ink set. You could accommodate that in this 3800 using 6KPlus. However, Y is does not fare as well as the other pigments in terms of light fastness. Then again, I suspect you might be better off with this configuration, relative to a full colour ink set, in terms of longevity. Be aware that you will also have three colours to juggle when you build profiles to achieve the tones you want. This is probably quite doable, but more complex than working with two. 

Perhaps Paul can comment in general on the addition of Y to achieve the end result you are looking for. 

Terry.    
         

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From:  Terry Ritz

"The warmest tones you will get on matte will peak around b* values of 4 to
5 (somewhere in the mid tones). Cone's carbon will not be much warmer, if
any. I don't think this will come anywhere near what you are looking for, if
I understand your needs correctly. Gloss conversely, will peak around 14
(somewhere in the mid tones). That would be yellowish, and adding some LM
would allow you to move this toward a "brownish" tonality."

Terry,

I am resigned to the fact that I will not get the kind of brown tones I like
out of pure carbon inks (though your idea of mixing in just enough of the
more stable pigments is worth considering at a later time). For now I would
simply like to get a reliable carbon printing set up going, get accustomed
to it, then go from there. (You don't want to know about my long saga at
this.)

I am getting exactly the brown I want out of OEM inks. However, I am always
looking for something more and better, and I would also like to have a
second, higher tier of work to offer.


David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

www.davidkachel.com
david@...

Gallery:
www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
director@...

PO Box  1893
Alpine, TX 79831
(432) 386-5787




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Terry,

I also had a version  of the inkset with Y installed, though I never
profiled it for  warmer tones.  So there are no ready made profiles.

I think I'd be sure to stay with Epson color inks for lightfastness.

I found the 100% carbon on glossy paper was the answer for  more warmth.
 I'm not sure if there is a better non-OBA baryta type paper that might be
more  "matte" like than the Silver Rag.  If I were doing very warm prints
now, I'd look for such a paper.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 3:21 PM, David Kachel <david@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> From: Terry Ritz
>
>
> "The warmest tones you will get on matte will peak around b* values of 4 to
> 5 (somewhere in the mid tones). Cone's carbon will not be much warmer, if
> any. I don't think this will come anywhere near what you are looking for,
> if
> I understand your needs correctly. Gloss conversely, will peak around 14
> (somewhere in the mid tones). That would be yellowish, and adding some LM
> would allow you to move this toward a "brownish" tonality."
>
> Terry,
>
> I am resigned to the fact that I will not get the kind of brown tones I
> like
> out of pure carbon inks (though your idea of mixing in just enough of the
> more stable pigments is worth considering at a later time). For now I would
> simply like to get a reliable carbon printing set up going, get accustomed
> to it, then go from there. (You don't want to know about my long saga at
> this.)
>
> I am getting exactly the brown I want out of OEM inks. However, I am always
> looking for something more and better, and I would also like to have a
> second, higher tier of work to offer.
>
>
> David Kachel
>
> ___________________
>
> Artist-Photographer
> Fine B&W Photographs
>
> www.davidkachel.com
> david@...
>
> Gallery:
> www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
> director@reddoorfinephotographs.com
>
> PO Box 1893
> Alpine, TX 79831
> (432) 386-5787
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Jul 18, 2013, at 8:43 AM, Paul Roark wrote:

What tones and paper types you like best might be the place to start  
your
search for a B&W inksets.

Paul
Thanks for the information. I would like to embark on the bare paper  
approach and am looking for neutral to slightly warm prints. One  
thing that puts a burr in my saddle are prints that tend to go green.  
Sorta look like looking through dirty aquarium glass.

Can you suggest a good source for the Arches Cold and Hot press  
uncoated papers? (Legion?) I would imagine that you would want to  
print on sheets only, no?

For starters I'm guessing that I should buy the "EbHP arrangement" in  
the 220 ml carts from MIS?

Next I guess I need to find my QTR license and upgrade to the latest.

Any recommendations/warnings/pitfalls etc on flushing out the Epson  
inks from the 7800?

Peace

Clark



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From:  Steve Clark

"Can you suggest a good source for the Arches Cold and Hot press
uncoated papers? (Legion?) I would imagine that you would want to
print on sheets only, no?"

Let me save you from a big headache you won't see coming.
Legion has decided that to be "helpful" to retailers, they are going to put
a big bar code sticker on every last ()*&#$)(@$  %(*&%$)  %08$#)@$)  sheet
of cold and hot press paper they sell. They also put this sticker in such a
position that no matter what size sheets you cut, it is unlikely you will be
able to cut them in a way that the excess waste contains the sticker.
These stickers are hard to remove and of course leave a permanent mark.
Legion thinks that's OK because the adhesive is "acid free".

Legion doesn't seem to "get it" that putting a sticker on these papers is an
abomination to any artist or photographer.

There are product numbers for packages of hot and cold press that don't have
these stickers, but I don't recall what they are.
Anyway, the short way around the barn is this: buy your paper from Daniel
Smith and tell them you want the paper without the stickers.
In the bargain, you also get the paper cheaper than most other places. I've
found the service at DS significantly superior to other online sellers too.
Earlier this year I ordered small quantities of a bunch of different papers
from DS. Without me saying anything, they figured out that I was testing
papers and made sure I could distinguish which papers were which without
trouble. None of the other online suppliers would do this EVEN WHEN I ASKED
THEM TO!! By the time I ordered papers from DS, I had given up on asking.



David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

www.davidkachel.com
david@...

Gallery:
www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
director@...

PO Box  1893
Alpine, TX 79831
(432) 386-5787




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Steve,


**
>
> ... I would like to embark on the bare paper
> approach and am looking for neutral to slightly warm prints...
>

It sounds like Eboni on Arches is close to what you want.  See
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/7800-EbHP-2013.pdf  but note that MIS does
not sell the HP inks.  I buy the HP Z3200 PK from Atlex.com and dilute with
my generic base.  You can buy the base pre-mixed from MIS.

Can you suggest a good source for the Arches Cold and Hot press
> uncoated papers?
>

As David notes, the stickers are a pain.  It's good to know Danial Smith
will sell without them.  DS is a very reputable, high end supplier.  Dick
Blick used to sell Arches without stickers.  I don't know if that holds
today.


> For starters I'm guessing that I should buy the "EbHP arrangement" in
> the 220 ml carts from MIS?
>


I have found the MIS standard type carts (not funnel fill) to be very good.
 I pull them to agitate the inks and have never yet had a valve leak.



>
> Any recommendations/warnings/pitfalls etc on flushing out the Epson
> inks from the 7800?
>

I think it takes 2 power cleanings to get rid of the old ink.  I doubt you
need to use any special flushing fluid, but if you are concerned about that
you might fill (not actually full, but maybe 100 cc) the carts with a mix
of clear base and distilled water at first.  Do one power clean with that,
then drain the base/water, flush with a few cc's of ink and fill with the
inks you'll be using.

You'll want a chip resetter from MIS.  You can replace the waste tank foam
with any number of substances (cotton stuffing or batting for example) and
reset that chip also.

Good luck.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Paul and David
Thanks for the helpful information.

Two questions:
First, are the standard cartridges still available from MIS. I don't see them, only the funnel fill. The instructions for filling the standard cartridges with a syringe are still there and it references a part number for the 220 ml cart as "T563x". There are no hits when I search their site for that part number. I substituted the "x" for C or LM or LC and it still doesn't find anything. 

After reading the instructions for filling both type of carts I'm left wondering what the reason would be for wanting the standard cart over the funnel fill. The filling seems easier/quicker with the funnel fill. I've learned that there are always good reasons for the way you do things so  I'm thinking that there must be one here. BTW, I have access to a steady supply of used Epson carts because I work at a sheet fed litho printing company and we use 9800s for color proofing. Can I flush the expired Epson carts and reset the chip and use them?

Second, do the chip resetters really work? I have a 1400 with UT-14 set up with two sets of MIS cartridges and the chip setter fails to reset the chips reliably. The red light flashes and then goes solid. Never get a green light. The status monitor shows low ink warning but 1400 continues to print. 

Again I want to express my appreciation for the folks on this forum and their willingness to openly share their experience.

Much obliged

Clark



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Paul Roark <roark.paul@...> wrote:

>
> Steve,
> 
> 
> **
> >
> > ... I would like to embark on the bare paper
> > approach and am looking for neutral to slightly warm prints...
> >
> 
> It sounds like Eboni on Arches is close to what you want.  See
> http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/7800-EbHP-2013.pdf  but note that MIS does
> not sell the HP inks.  I buy the HP Z3200 PK from Atlex.com and dilute with
> my generic base.  You can buy the base pre-mixed from MIS.
> 
> Can you suggest a good source for the Arches Cold and Hot press
> > uncoated papers?
> >
> 
> As David notes, the stickers are a pain.  It's good to know Danial Smith
> will sell without them.  DS is a very reputable, high end supplier.  Dick
> Blick used to sell Arches without stickers.  I don't know if that holds
> today.
> 
> 
> > For starters I'm guessing that I should buy the "EbHP arrangement" in
> > the 220 ml carts from MIS?
> >
> 
> 
> I have found the MIS standard type carts (not funnel fill) to be very good.
>  I pull them to agitate the inks and have never yet had a valve leak.
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > Any recommendations/warnings/pitfalls etc on flushing out the Epson
> > inks from the 7800?
> >
> 
> I think it takes 2 power cleanings to get rid of the old ink.  I doubt you
> need to use any special flushing fluid, but if you are concerned about that
> you might fill (not actually full, but maybe 100 cc) the carts with a mix
> of clear base and distilled water at first.  Do one power clean with that,
> then drain the base/water, flush with a few cc's of ink and fill with the
> inks you'll be using.
> 
> You'll want a chip resetter from MIS.  You can replace the waste tank foam
> with any number of substances (cotton stuffing or batting for example) and
> reset that chip also.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Clark

> **
>
>
> Two questions:
> First, are the standard cartridges still available from MIS. I don't see
> them, only the funnel fill.
>

MIS/inksupply.com will try to get some of them in if they are out of stock.
To order them, email support@... and reference "Justin."


... I'm left wondering what the reason would be for wanting the standard
> cart over the funnel fill. The filling seems easier/quicker with the funnel
> fill.
>
Yes, the funnel fill are easier to fill.  That is why so many use them and
MIS mostly sells that type.  However, I like the more compact standard
ones.  They keep more air out, and they keep out the light.  They are
rather easy to agitate also by removing them.




> ... I have access to a steady supply of used Epson carts because I work at
> a sheet fed litho printing company and we use 9800s for color proofing. Can
> I flush the expired Epson carts and reset the chip and use them?
>
Yes, it just takes a lot of distilled water (first) and clear base (second)
to get all the color out.



> Second, do the chip resetters really work?
>
Yes, but the defect rate on them appears to be fairly high.  If yours is
funky, just buy another.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Jul 19, 2013, at 10:34 AM, Paul Roark wrote:


I have found the MIS standard type carts (not funnel fill) to be very  
good.
I pull them to agitate the inks and have never yet had a valve leak.


It turns out that Justin at MIS told my support agent that they no  
longer carry the standard type carts because they are $178 each. Go  
figure. It took me 8 days to find that out.

I've decided to throw in the towel. MIS beat me down and I've got  
nothing left in my tank.

Thanks to all that responded to my post and it's nice to know there  
are a bunch of helpful people out there such as we have on this forum.

Peace

Clark



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Steve Clark <bildad@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> ... they no longer carry the standard type carts because they are $178
> each. ...
>

That is probably for a set of 8.  If not, I think I'll start rinsing out
some of my old 7800 carts and selling them!

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 07/19/2013 12:05 AM, David Whistance wrote:
> One thought for David, although he would be very much on his own as I'm
> not aware of anyone using this approach, would be to look at the
> American Inkjet Systems inks.  They sell a stronger yellow, red-orange
> and brown inks as well as the standard colours.  They are not keen on
> multi K inksets, however by using some of their colours as toners
> together with the MIS carbon inks I'm sure he could build a very warm
> custom inkset. It might take a bit of work to get it profiled with QTR
> though.
>
> David Whistance

The HP Vivera pigment Red and Chromatic Red of resp the HP Z3100 and 
Z3200 model are at least tested by Aardenburg etc. Orange/Red hues. The 
Yellow is tested too.
Available everywhere.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2012: 500+ inkjet media paper white spectral plots.