Digital BW, The Print

This may seem like a silly question but IS there such a thing as a
digital, black and white printing publication, or even newsletter?
Specifically dealing with the stuff this list discusses?  Maybe there's not
enough interest or backing to start something like this yet.  Anyway, just
thought I'd ask.
 
Jim

 -----Original Message-----
From: Paul Roark [mailto:paul.roark@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 12:40 PM
To: DigitalB&WPrint
Subject: [Digital BW] "500 year" Color Pigments -- B&W Mag



This caught my eye.

The June 2002 issue of B&W Magazine has some interesting articles -- and
advertisements.  (Even though that publication that doesn't like us, I have
not cancelled my subscription.)

B&W Mag is starting a series on the "ABC of Collecting."  This should be
educational (or self-promoting).

Even more interesting, however, was an advertisement in the middle of the
first of these "collecting" articles.  The "Ataraxia Studio" claims to be
using the most stable color process there is -- using pigments.  (OK --
this might not be too far off.)  The ad then implies that it's color
pigments have a "500 year" life.

Hmm.

The good news is that it does accomplish some education of the B&W Mag
readership -- whoever they are.  And, of course, I wish the advertiser the
best of luck in substantiating the "500 year" claim.  That would be great.

I fear that there may be bad news for all of us, however, if claims like
this are shown to be false.  It could undercut the real progress that is
being made.

The advertiser has a website at:

http://www.atxstudio.com/index1.htm <http://www.atxstudio.com/index1.htm> 



"If it's too to be true, it probably isn't."

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.PaulRoark.com> 



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Do you think Sandro Botticelli was a customer of theirs? His "La nascita
di Venere" (1484) is holding up pretty well in the Gelleria degli
Uffizi.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Roark [mailto:paul.roark@...t] 
> Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 3:40 PM
> To: DigitalB&WPrint
> Subject: [Digital BW] "500 year" Color Pigments -- B&W Mag
> 
> 
> This caught my eye.
> 
> The June 2002 issue of B&W Magazine has some interesting 
> articles -- and advertisements.  (Even though that 
> publication that doesn't like us, I have not cancelled my 
> subscription.)
> 
> B&W Mag is starting a series on the "ABC of Collecting."  
> This should be educational (or self-promoting).
> 
> Even more interesting, however, was an advertisement in the 
> middle of the first of these "collecting" articles.  The 
> "Ataraxia Studio" claims to be using the most stable color 
> process there is -- using pigments.  (OK -- this might not be 
> too far off.)  The ad then implies that it's color pigments 
> have a "500 year" life.
> 
> Hmm.
> 
> The good news is that it does accomplish some education of 
> the B&W Mag readership -- whoever they are.  And, of course, 
> I wish the advertiser the best of luck in substantiating the 
> "500 year" claim.  That would be great.
> 
> I fear that there may be bad news for all of us, however, if 
> claims like this are shown to be false.  It could undercut 
> the real progress that is being made.
> 
> The advertiser has a website at:
> 
http://www.atxstudio.com/index1.htm



"If it's too to be true, it probably isn't."

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
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"flames."
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Paul, Even the finest oil paintings of the 16th and 1 7th centuries have faded some. So have all the watercolors that are hundreds of years
old. In fact it seems the only paintings that appear NOT to have faded are on the walls of caves such as those at Lascaux, France. (Not the
best color gamut, but the haven't faded much considering they are 20,000 years old.

Jerry

There will never be a way to prove 500 year claims, or even 100 year claims, so I suppose anyone can make them...




Paul Roark wrote:

> This caught my eye.
>
> The June 2002 issue of B&W Magazine has some interesting articles -- and
> advertisements.  (Even though that publication that doesn't like us, I have
> not cancelled my subscription.)
>
> B&W Mag is starting a series on the "ABC of Collecting."  This should be
> educational (or self-promoting).
>
> Even more interesting, however, was an advertisement in the middle of the
> first of these "collecting" articles.  The "Ataraxia Studio" claims to be
> using the most stable color process there is -- using pigments.  (OK --
> this might not be too far off.)  The ad then implies that it's color
> pigments have a "500 year" life.
>
> Hmm.
>
> The good news is that it does accomplish some education of the B&W Mag
> readership -- whoever they are.  And, of course, I wish the advertiser the
> best of luck in substantiating the "500 year" claim.  That would be great.
>
> I fear that there may be bad news for all of us, however, if claims like
> this are shown to be false.  It could undercut the real progress that is
> being made.
>
> The advertiser has a website at:
>
> http://www.atxstudio.com/index1.htm
>
> "If it's too to be true, it probably isn't."
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Jerry Olson wrote:

>   In fact it seems the only paintings that appear NOT to have faded 
> are on the walls of caves such as those at Lascaux, France. (Not the
> best color gamut, but the haven't faded much considering they are 
> 20,000 years old.
>
Well, perhaps not painting, but one of the advantages of carbon pigs can 
be seen in the appreciable lack of fading found in some example of 
ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics and Chinese/Japanese/Korean writings,, 
 Carbon black based inksets have held up pretty well on rice paper 
(really only rice sizing), papyrus, tomb walls, and inside pyramids.

As for Carbro progeny/derivatives, there was UltraStble and then Evercolor..

The first in the mid 80's the second in the early 90's..

http://www.artfacts.org/artinfo/articals/evercolor.html

http://www.charlespfarmer-photo.com/blackboard/customer_of_the_month.htm


[Keith]
 
 

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The closest I've seen would have to be Photo
Electronic Imaging(PEI) magazine.  The few issues I've
read seemed to address many Photoshop/scanning/inkjet
issues.  Unlike other "digital photography" magazines,
it doesn't just focus on digital cameras, they
actually talk about film scanning, high bit editing,
etc.  I've just put in for a subscription.  
It doesn't deal solely in b&w, though, but a lot of
the articles address issues that apply to all of us. I
also work in color anyway. You can check out a bunch
of their back issues on their website: www.peimag.com.

Hope this helps,

 Daniel P\ufffdrez
 -Dallas


--- Jim Panzer <jimp@...> wrote:
>  
>     This may seem like a silly question but IS there
> such a thing as a
> digital, black and white printing publication, or
> even newsletter?
> Specifically dealing with the stuff this list
> discusses?  Maybe there's not
> enough interest or backing to start something like
> this yet.  Anyway, just
> thought I'd ask.
>  
> Jim
> 

__________________________________________________
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Thanks for the tip. I went to the web-site and it looks good, so I ordered a
subscription.  I might add that I've also ordered a new subscription/
publication, being started by Phototechniques magazine which promises(I
hope) to be similar to the aforementioned magazine, which is technical in
nature with regards to traditional darkroom & film techniques. The new
Magazine is titled Digital Arts Magazine, as titled dedicated solely to the
digital photography arts  The order form is in the magazine or can be
ordered on-line @ pvsubs @...

I think you are referring to the new magazine called Digital Fine Arts. 
This magazine is from the same publisher as PHOTOVISION and not from the 
people who bring you as PHOTO Techniques. I don't when Digital Fine Arts is 
to hit the streets. Contact the people at PHOTOVISION for more information. 
See http://www.photovisionmagazine.com.

PHOTOVISION is dedicated solely to, as they say, 'photography.' There is no 
digital coverage in the magazine. Digital Fine Arts is their answer to 
address the digital side.

PHOTO Techniques, however, does cover both what I call 'wet' photography 
and digital photography, sometimes to the grumbling of readers who wish 
digital would not intrude upon the pages of their issues.

Jeff Greer

At 05:17 PM 04/26/2002 -0600, you wrote:

>Thanks for the tip. I went to the web-site and it looks good, so I ordered a
>subscription.  I might add that I've also ordered a new subscription/
>publication, being started by Phototechniques magazine which promises(I
>hope) to be similar to the aforementioned magazine, which is technical in
>nature with regards to traditional darkroom & film techniques. The new
>Magazine is titled Digital Arts Magazine, as titled dedicated solely to the
>digital photography arts  The order form is in the magazine or can be
>ordered on-line @ pvsubs @...
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and 
>other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>- Include your full name with your message.
>- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep 
>them short.
>- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
>- Complete your Yahoo profile.
>- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various 
>resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

My apologies, I had Phototechniques on my mind and meant Photovision. 
thanks
 
Frank
 Francis James Mares Photography
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I just checked out the Photovision site and saw the following statement on
their front page:

"There are many magazines these days that have left the pure path of
photography to embrace the technology (and advertising dollars) of the
computer age. We pledge to our readers that we will not follow that path."

It seems to me the LAST thing they want to be is a digital magazine! Too bad...

Diana Park

***********************

>Message: 5
>   Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 21:22:33 -0600
>   From: "Frank Mares" <fjmcsu@...>
>Subject: RE: Digtal Mag
>
>My apologies, I had Phototechniques on my mind and meant Photovision.
>thanks
>
>Frank
> Francis James Mares Photography

The publishers of PHOTOVISION are keeping things separate (digital vs. 
non-digital). The recent issue of the magazine (March/April 2002) contains 
an ad for the upcoming Digital Fine Arts publication. There is also this 
message from the editor:

"Photovision is, and always will be, dedicated to photography -- no 
digital. This is not because we don't believe digital imaging is a viable 
visual medium. Those who doubt our sincerity may be interested to know that 
in 2002 we will be launching our second publication, Digital Fine Arts -- 
no photography!"

Their use of photography only for the 'wet' side annoys me a bit. I think 
the term 'digital photography' is valid (and, maybe one day, we can drop 
the 'digital' altogether) since I go back the Greek root words for 
photography, which I take to loosely mean 'to write with light.' I can 
'write with light' using silver, emulsion, and chemistry, or I can do it 
with silicon, software, and electrons.

Jeff Greer

At 08:33 AM 04/30/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>I just checked out the Photovision site and saw the following statement on
>their front page:
>
>"There are many magazines these days that have left the pure path of
>photography to embrace the technology (and advertising dollars) of the
>computer age. We pledge to our readers that we will not follow that path."
>
>It seems to me the LAST thing they want to be is a digital magazine! Too 
>bad...
>
>Diana Park
>
>***********************
>
> >Message: 5
> >   Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 21:22:33 -0600
> >   From: "Frank Mares" <fjmcsu@...>
> >Subject: RE: Digtal Mag
> >
> >My apologies, I had Phototechniques on my mind and meant Photovision.
> >thanks
> >
> >Frank
> > Francis James Mares Photography
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and 
>other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>- Include your full name with your message.
>- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep 
>them short.
>- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
>- Complete your Yahoo profile.
>- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various 
>resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

On 4/30/02 3:43 PM, "J Greer" <jgpinfo@...> wrote:

> The publishers of PHOTOVISION are keeping things separate (digital vs.
> non-digital). The recent issue of the magazine (March/April 2002) contains
> an ad for the upcoming Digital Fine Arts publication. There is also this
> message from the editor:
> 
> "Photovision is, and always will be, dedicated to photography -- no
> digital. This is not because we don't believe digital imaging is a viable
> visual medium. Those who doubt our sincerity may be interested to know that
> in 2002 we will be launching our second publication, Digital Fine Arts --
> no photography!"
> 
> Their use of photography only for the 'wet' side annoys me a bit. I think
> the term 'digital photography' is valid (and, maybe one day, we can drop
> the 'digital' altogether) since I go back the Greek root words for
> photography, which I take to loosely mean 'to write with light.' I can
> 'write with light' using silver, emulsion, and chemistry, or I can do it
> with silicon, software, and electrons.
> 
> Jeff Greer

<short rant>

That's a great reason to not read either of their magazines...the thought
that practicing photography is limited to the equipment or techniques that
you use...is quite simply an abomination that should make every artist who
takes photos utterly repulsed. Photography is about making art by capturing
images!  They have relegated the word photography to a rapidly dying set of
techniques rather than to the vibrant art form that it is.

<I feel much better now>


Robert

I wonder if that's how the impressionists, futurists, cubists, 
fauves, blue riders, expressionists, abstracts etc felt too.

Seems each time we explore a method of interpretation within an image 
making genre there's a time of repulsion, expulsion, at-arms-distance 
& then embrace.

Sincerely,
Cleavis


SNIP

> that practicing photography is limited to the equipment or 
techniques that you use...is quite simply an abomination that should 
make every artist who takes photos utterly repulsed. Photography is 
about making art by capturing images! SNIP

> Robert

I think it is exactly the way they felt...frustrated with the stuck in the
mud conservatives from the academy!

Robert

On 4/30/02 7:51 PM, "lyonscox" <lyonscox@...> wrote:

> I wonder if that's how the impressionists, futurists, cubists,
> fauves, blue riders, expressionists, abstracts etc felt too.
> 
> Seems each time we explore a method of interpretation within an image
> making genre there's a time of repulsion, expulsion, at-arms-distance
> & then embrace.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Cleavis
> 
> 
> SNIP
> 
>> that practicing photography is limited to the equipment or
> techniques that you use...is quite simply an abomination that should
> make every artist who takes photos utterly repulsed. Photography is
> about making art by capturing images! SNIP
> 
>> Robert
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 

----------------------
Robert Morrison
rmorrison@...

310-397-2704

4131 Bledsoe Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90066

You took the words out of my mouth...!


Joel Kurtz
jdkurtz@...

> <short rant>
>
> That's a great reason to not read either of their magazines...the thought
> that practicing photography is limited to the equipment or techniques that
> you use...is quite simply an abomination that should make every artist who
> takes photos utterly repulsed. Photography is about making art by
capturing
> images!  They have relegated the word photography to a rapidly dying set
of

> techniques rather than to the vibrant art form that it is.
>
> <I feel much better now>
>
>
> Robert

Just for kicks, I wrote to the editors to express my astonishment at the
limitations of their "vision" and definition of "photography."

So far, no response.

- David

-----Original Message-----
From: J Greer [mailto:jgpinfo@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 6:44 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Digtal Mag


The publishers of PHOTOVISION are keeping things separate (digital vs.
non-digital). The recent issue of the magazine (March/April 2002) contains
an ad for the upcoming Digital Fine Arts publication. There is also this
message from the editor:

"Photovision is, and always will be, dedicated to photography -- no
digital. This is not because we don't believe digital imaging is a viable
visual medium. Those who doubt our sincerity may be interested to know that
in 2002 we will be launching our second publication, Digital Fine Arts --
no photography!"

Their use of photography only for the 'wet' side annoys me a bit. I think
the term 'digital photography' is valid (and, maybe one day, we can drop
the 'digital' altogether) since I go back the Greek root words for
photography, which I take to loosely mean 'to write with light.' I can
'write with light' using silver, emulsion, and chemistry, or I can do it
with silicon, software, and electrons.

Jeff Greer

At 08:33 AM 04/30/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>I just checked out the Photovision site and saw the following statement on
>their front page:
>
>"There are many magazines these days that have left the pure path of
>photography to embrace the technology (and advertising dollars) of the
>computer age. We pledge to our readers that we will not follow that path."
>
>It seems to me the LAST thing they want to be is a digital magazine! Too
>bad...
>
>Diana Park
>
>***********************
>
> >Message: 5
> >   Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 21:22:33 -0600
> >   From: "Frank Mares" <fjmcsu@...>
> >Subject: RE: Digtal Mag
> >
> >My apologies, I had Phototechniques on my mind and meant Photovision.
> >thanks
> >
> >Frank
> > Francis James Mares Photography
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
>other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>- Include your full name with your message.
>- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
>them short.
>- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
>- Complete your Yahoo profile.
>- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
>resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/