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Sepia - Bloody Sepia!

Sepia - Bloody Sepia!

2002-04-28 by garrysarre

Sepia bloody sepia

Someone tell me if they have a better idea and what the hell I am 
doing.

I've been fiddle farting around with this sepia thing for months. My 
heart yearns for the tuth. My intention has been to try a get it 
close on a desktop before purchasing larger. I am thoroughly spoilt 
as I print B&W Neg onto colour RC Paper and filtrate to get a rich 
goldern sepia and it gives me the total poops trying to get close to 
that with inkjet.

I start with a black & white neg scan.

A "not bad" method I have tried is to start with a desaturated RGB 
image off the B&W neg and adjust colour - shadows, midtones & 
highlights equally. I will get horrible crossover before I even 
start if you just try mids.

My sepi is very rich, so my settings were 20y 15r each. Try 
proportionally less if you want weaker. This leads to another 
problem. If I have the "Preserve Luminosity" checked, the levels 
change quite drastically, sometimes actually chopping off the shadow 
end of the histogram, if I leave it unchecked it just does weird 
things. In any case, I figured that I  must adjust the histogram at 
the very end of the process and make sure it is intact. If it isn't 
then I try this -

I found that if I converted to CMYK and then did the same colour 
adjustment, my histogram was left fairly intact and then just 
switched back down to RGB again for final output. My next step is 
the MIS sepia neautal inks with a guess at which curves to use. Paul 
suggests 1280 for my 890 but they're not fully refined as yet.

I may be doing this all wrong but when I have tried duotones, the 
histogram is devistated. Channel mixer is also useless to me as I 
start with a B&W neg. What else is there? I seem to have no response 
when I put up a post.

This sepia bizzo seems to be the hardest thing to get to grips with.


Garry Sarre

www.sarre.com.au

Re: [Digital BW] Sepia - Bloody Sepia!

2002-04-28 by Sam A. McCandless

At 3:30 PM +0000 4/28/02, garrysarre wrote:
>[snip] Channel mixer is also useless to me as I start with a B&W 
>neg. What else is there? I seem to have no response when I put up a 
>post. [snip]

If I didn't respond to Garry's previous post(s), I think he must not 
be using the only sepia solution I know anything about, MIS's new VM 
Sepia-Neutral inkset to Paul Roark's specs.

In any case, Sepia-Neutral seems to me to work very well in an 1160 
starting with either B & W or RGB.

I would not, however, say that the prints are a "rich golden sepia" 
with any one of the four curves you can download on InkSupply.com. 
But they might be if the curves are adjusted or the yellow slider, 
which I also haven't tried, is used.

Sam
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>Sepia bloody sepia
>
>Someone tell me if they have a better idea and what the hell I am
>doing.
>
>I've been fiddle farting around with this sepia thing for months. My
>heart yearns for the tuth. My intention has been to try a get it
>close on a desktop before purchasing larger. I am thoroughly spoilt
>as I print B&W Neg onto colour RC Paper and filtrate to get a rich
>goldern sepia and it gives me the total poops trying to get close to
>that with inkjet.
>
>I start with a black & white neg scan.
>
>A "not bad" method I have tried is to start with a desaturated RGB
>image off the B&W neg and adjust colour - shadows, midtones &
>highlights equally. I will get horrible crossover before I even
>start if you just try mids.
>
>My sepi is very rich, so my settings were 20y 15r each. Try
>proportionally less if you want weaker. This leads to another
>problem. If I have the "Preserve Luminosity" checked, the levels
>change quite drastically, sometimes actually chopping off the shadow
>end of the histogram, if I leave it unchecked it just does weird
>things. In any case, I figured that I  must adjust the histogram at
>the very end of the process and make sure it is intact. If it isn't
>then I try this -
>
>I found that if I converted to CMYK and then did the same colour
>adjustment, my histogram was left fairly intact and then just
>switched back down to RGB again for final output. My next step is
>the MIS sepia neautal inks with a guess at which curves to use. Paul
>suggests 1280 for my 890 but they're not fully refined as yet.
>
>I may be doing this all wrong but when I have tried duotones, the
>histogram is devistated. Channel mixer is also useless to me as I
>start with a B&W neg. What else is there? I seem to have no response
>when I put up a post.
>
>This sepia bizzo seems to be the hardest thing to get to grips with.
>
>
>Garry Sarre
>
>www.sarre.com.au

Re: [Digital BW] Sepia - Bloody Sepia!

2002-04-28 by Todd Flashner

Garry

I'm sure there are a million ways to make an image sepia, and I'm really not
sure what the problem with your way is. Sounds like every thing is fine
until you view the histogram? Then don't view the histogram. ;-)

I'm using the MIS VM sepia mix, with pretty good results. If you send me
your address I'll send you a print, so at least you'll know what the color
is like. And yes, I realize you are on the other side of the planet...

If I were adding the color to an RGB image for RGB printing I think I'd do
it with curves set to color mode (which leaves your tonality intact) working
with the red channel (raise it) and blue channel (lower it) to get the
flavor. When you get a curve you like save it and load it for future use.

Chances are if your image is looking good onscreen but lousy in print it is
because of a poor printer profile, metamerism, or other print related
matters. That's obviously a huge generalization so I'm not betting on it,
but I'm really just trying to separate your problem into one at the file
creation stage and one at the printing stage.

So just what is the problems you experience? Are you prints looking good, or
not? If so forget about the histogram, if not, where do you see the problem?

Todd
tflash@...
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Sepia bloody sepia
> 
> Someone tell me if they have a better idea and what the hell I am
> doing.
> 
> I've been fiddle farting around with this sepia thing for months. My
> heart yearns for the tuth. My intention has been to try a get it
> close on a desktop before purchasing larger. I am thoroughly spoilt
> as I print B&W Neg onto colour RC Paper and filtrate to get a rich
> goldern sepia and it gives me the total poops trying to get close to
> that with inkjet.
> 
> I start with a black & white neg scan.
> 
> A "not bad" method I have tried is to start with a desaturated RGB
> image off the B&W neg and adjust colour - shadows, midtones &
> highlights equally. I will get horrible crossover before I even
> start if you just try mids.
> 
> My sepi is very rich, so my settings were 20y 15r each. Try
> proportionally less if you want weaker. This leads to another
> problem. If I have the "Preserve Luminosity" checked, the levels
> change quite drastically, sometimes actually chopping off the shadow
> end of the histogram, if I leave it unchecked it just does weird
> things. In any case, I figured that I  must adjust the histogram at
> the very end of the process and make sure it is intact. If it isn't
> then I try this -
> 
> I found that if I converted to CMYK and then did the same colour
> adjustment, my histogram was left fairly intact and then just
> switched back down to RGB again for final output. My next step is
> the MIS sepia neautal inks with a guess at which curves to use. Paul
> suggests 1280 for my 890 but they're not fully refined as yet.
> 
> I may be doing this all wrong but when I have tried duotones, the
> histogram is devistated. Channel mixer is also useless to me as I
> start with a B&W neg. What else is there? I seem to have no response
> when I put up a post.
> 
> This sepia bizzo seems to be the hardest thing to get to grips with.
> 
> 
> Garry Sarre
> 
> www.sarre.com.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>

Todd - Sepia - Bloody Sepia!

2002-04-29 by garrysarre

Todd

I'm following two tracks here.

Attempting Sepia with full colour inks as well as Sepia mix (Will 
try soon)

I kind of would like to get the colour ink way working as well 
because it would be more flexible as to output.

Imagine scanning a colour neg, then desaturating to about 30% - 
leaving a small amount of colour so that it looks more like a black 
& White, then applying sepia tones. The affect would be of a sepia 
print, but with an almost subliminal colour affect.

I will try the curves method, but I'm not sure if it will change 
colours across the full shadow to highlight equally, resulting in 
yukky crossovers. Also I dont think in red, blue & yellow very well.

The histogram after the colour adjustment definately shows cut-off 
in the shadows - and it shows on the print.

I would love to receive a print from you as I have yet to see the 
output.

Address is 6 Robinson St, Subiaco. Western Australia. 6008. I am 
happy to re-imburse you. Do you take Visa>

Garry Sarre.

PS. I would like to send replys off list but can't find members 
email addresses anywhere ie. they are chopped off at the end.

> 
> I'm sure there are a million ways to make an image sepia, and I'm 
really not
> sure what the problem with your way is. Sounds like every thing is 
fine
> until you view the histogram? Then don't view the histogram. ;-)
> 
> I'm using the MIS VM sepia mix, with pretty good results. If you 
send me
> your address I'll send you a print, so at least you'll know what 
the color
> is like. And yes, I realize you are on the other side of the 
planet...
> 
> If I were adding the color to an RGB image for RGB printing I 
think I'd do
> it with curves set to color mode (which leaves your tonality 
intact) working
> with the red channel (raise it) and blue channel (lower it) to get 
the
> flavor. When you get a curve you like save it and load it for 
future use.
> 
> Chances are if your image is looking good onscreen but lousy in 
print it is
> because of a poor printer profile, metamerism, or other print 
related
> matters. That's obviously a huge generalization so I'm not betting 
on it,
> but I'm really just trying to separate your problem into one at 
the file
> creation stage and one at the printing stage.
> 
> So just what is the problems you experience? Are you prints 
looking good, or
> not? If so forget about the histogram, if not, where do you see 
the problem?
> 
> Todd
> tflash@e...
> 
> > Sepia bloody sepia
> > 
> > Someone tell me if they have a better idea and what the hell I am
> > doing.
> > 
> > I've been fiddle farting around with this sepia thing for 
months. My
> > heart yearns for the tuth. My intention has been to try a get it
> > close on a desktop before purchasing larger. I am thoroughly 
spoilt
> > as I print B&W Neg onto colour RC Paper and filtrate to get a 
rich
> > goldern sepia and it gives me the total poops trying to get 
close to
> > that with inkjet.
> > 
> > I start with a black & white neg scan.
> > 
> > A "not bad" method I have tried is to start with a desaturated 
RGB
> > image off the B&W neg and adjust colour - shadows, midtones &
> > highlights equally. I will get horrible crossover before I even
> > start if you just try mids.
> > 
> > My sepi is very rich, so my settings were 20y 15r each. Try
> > proportionally less if you want weaker. This leads to another
> > problem. If I have the "Preserve Luminosity" checked, the levels
> > change quite drastically, sometimes actually chopping off the 
shadow
> > end of the histogram, if I leave it unchecked it just does weird
> > things. In any case, I figured that I  must adjust the histogram 
at
> > the very end of the process and make sure it is intact. If it 
isn't
> > then I try this -
> > 
> > I found that if I converted to CMYK and then did the same colour
> > adjustment, my histogram was left fairly intact and then just
> > switched back down to RGB again for final output. My next step is
> > the MIS sepia neautal inks with a guess at which curves to use. 
Paul
> > suggests 1280 for my 890 but they're not fully refined as yet.
> > 
> > I may be doing this all wrong but when I have tried duotones, the
> > histogram is devistated. Channel mixer is also useless to me as I
> > start with a B&W neg. What else is there? I seem to have no 
response
> > when I put up a post.
> > 
> > This sepia bizzo seems to be the hardest thing to get to grips 
with.
> > 
> > 
> > Garry Sarre
> > 
> > www.sarre.com.au
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and other
> > resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep
> > them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the 
subject header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
or "flames."
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various
> > resources on the homepage.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > 
> >

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