Digital BW, The Print

Paul
I have a Canon S9000 (13 x 19) and a Canon BJC 8200 (8.5 x 11). Both units take the SAME exact carts (no chips) and the machines are over 2 years apart in age from each other. So Canon does not force you to have several different carts for several different machines --- a nice feature I think ! IMHO the Canon out prints any Epson I've ever seen (please no flames -- just my opinion) in the color category. The carts are very easy to refill and because of the big (relative size to the Epson) sponge in the cart -- no foam issues. And I guess because of the way Canon gets the ink out of the carts there is no vacuum needed.  To me it looks gravity fed but I'm sure its some other high tech solution. I have had the BJC 8200 for over 2 years and never (never) any clogs. I have been waiting for any B&W inkset to come out for the Canon units. I'd gladly start using them ASAP. You get them made and I'll start buying them. One other thing -- I have never seen any banding at all.
Don Rooney

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Paul Roark 
  To: DigitalB&WPrint 
  Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 7:19 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Canon printers


  Has anyone had any experiences with the Canon printers?

  As you know, I'm a big fan of competition.  So, if there is an alternate
  printer for third party inks -- B&W quads in particular -- it would seem to
  be a real boon to those of us on this list.

  MIS has told me they are getting strong demand for quadtone inks for
  the Canon S800, S900, S9000 printers.  They are just finishing a
  Continuous Flow set up for them.   I

  MIS thinks Canon has done a good job in trying  to come up to the Epson
  standard.  If Epson is a 10 on the zero to 10 scale, then the new Canon
  printers are a 9 + in MIS's opinion.

  Some attractive characteristics of the Canon machines include that refilling
  is easy, with no foam problems like the Epson's, and there are
  no chips to deal with.  Moreover, each color has it's own cartridge and
  they are see through.

  Any opinions or interest in these machines?  I'm thinking a "no curves,"
  modified FS-Neutral inkset might be a way to get the ball rolling in giving
  Epson a little competition in our area of interest.

  Any opinions or interest in these machines or quad inksets for them?

  Paul
  http://www.PaulRoark.com


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Paul
One other very good feature about the Canon's -- the print head is a very easy snap out -- snap in change. The cost per head is around $90.00. I have never had need to change one but it would not take more an a minute or two to do. I think I have made over 400 - 8.5 x 11 color prints so far.
Don

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Paul Roark 
  To: DigitalB&WPrint 
  Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 7:19 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Canon printers


  Has anyone had any experiences with the Canon printers?

  As you know, I'm a big fan of competition.  So, if there is an alternate
  printer for third party inks -- B&W quads in particular -- it would seem to
  be a real boon to those of us on this list.

  MIS has told me they are getting strong demand for quadtone inks for
  the Canon S800, S900, S9000 printers.  They are just finishing a
  Continuous Flow set up for them.   I

  MIS thinks Canon has done a good job in trying  to come up to the Epson
  standard.  If Epson is a 10 on the zero to 10 scale, then the new Canon
  printers are a 9 + in MIS's opinion.

  Some attractive characteristics of the Canon machines include that refilling
  is easy, with no foam problems like the Epson's, and there are
  no chips to deal with.  Moreover, each color has it's own cartridge and
  they are see through.

  Any opinions or interest in these machines?  I'm thinking a "no curves,"
  modified FS-Neutral inkset might be a way to get the ball rolling in giving
  Epson a little competition in our area of interest.

  Any opinions or interest in these machines or quad inksets for them?

  Paul
  http://www.PaulRoark.com


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 07:19 PM 4/19/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>Has anyone had any experiences with the Canon printers?
>
>As you know, I'm a big fan of competition.  So, if there is an alternate
>printer for third party inks -- B&W quads in particular -- it would seem to
>be a real boon to those of us on this list.
>
>MIS has told me they are getting strong demand for quadtone inks for
>the Canon S800, S900, S9000 printers.  They are just finishing a
>Continuous Flow set up for them.   I
>
>MIS thinks Canon has done a good job in trying  to come up to the Epson
>standard.  If Epson is a 10 on the zero to 10 scale, then the new Canon
>printers are a 9 + in MIS's opinion.
>
>Some attractive characteristics of the Canon machines include that refilling
>is easy, with no foam problems like the Epson's, and there are
>no chips to deal with.  Moreover, each color has it's own cartridge and
>they are see through.
>
>Any opinions or interest in these machines?  I'm thinking a "no curves,"
>modified FS-Neutral inkset might be a way to get the ball rolling in giving
>Epson a little competition in our area of interest.
>
>Any opinions or interest in these machines or quad inksets for them?
>
>Paul
>http://www.PaulRoark.com
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>- Include your full name with your message.
>- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
>- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
>- Complete your Yahoo profile.
>- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage. 
>
>

Paul

My numero uno feature for a printer is the ability to print any length pans.
I don't know if the Canons do that. 

AZ
Maker of Lookaround panoramic camera.
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/8874/
         or
keyword.com lookaround

If these cartridges are really easy to refill, could we not just get
blank cartridges and refill them with the MIS VM inkset? We wouldn't
really need a CIS system for the printer if the cartridges were easy to fill!

Paul, would you have to write curves for this setup, or could you use
the same MIS curves for both the Canon and Epson? The canon has a higher
resolution than epson, doesn't it? 

I'll be in the market for another printer in a few months, so just want
to check this out before buying.

Jerry

Don Rooney wrote:

> 
> Paul
> I have a Canon S9000 (13 x 19) and a Canon BJC 8200 (8.5 x 11). Both units take the SAME exact carts (no chips) and the machines are over 2 years apart in age from each other. So Canon does not force you to have several different carts for several different machines --- a nice feature I think ! IMHO the Canon out prints any Epson I've ever seen (please no flames -- just my opinion) in the color category. The carts are very easy to refill and because of the big (relative size to the Epson) sponge in the cart -- no foam issues. And I guess because of the way Canon gets the ink out of the carts there is no vacuum needed.  To me it looks gravity fed but I'm sure its some other high tech solution. I have had the BJC 8200 for over 2 years and never (never) any clogs. I have been waiting for any B&W inkset to come out for the Canon units. I'd gladly start using them ASAP. You get them made and I'll start buying them. One other thing -- I have never seen any banding at all.
> Don Rooney
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Paul Roark
>   To: DigitalB&WPrint
>   Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 7:19 PM
>   Subject: [Digital BW] Canon printers
> 
>   Has anyone had any experiences with the Canon printers?
> 
>   As you know, I'm a big fan of competition.  So, if there is an alternate
>   printer for third party inks -- B&W quads in particular -- it would seem to
>   be a real boon to those of us on this list.
> 
>   MIS has told me they are getting strong demand for quadtone inks for
>   the Canon S800, S900, S9000 printers.  They are just finishing a
>   Continuous Flow set up for them.   I
> 
>   MIS thinks Canon has done a good job in trying  to come up to the Epson
>   standard.  If Epson is a 10 on the zero to 10 scale, then the new Canon
>   printers are a 9 + in MIS's opinion.
> 
>   Some attractive characteristics of the Canon machines include that refilling
>   is easy, with no foam problems like the Epson's, and there are
>   no chips to deal with.  Moreover, each color has it's own cartridge and
>   they are see through.
> 
>   Any opinions or interest in these machines?  I'm thinking a "no curves,"
>   modified FS-Neutral inkset might be a way to get the ball rolling in giving
>   Epson a little competition in our area of interest.
> 
>   Any opinions or interest in these machines or quad inksets for them?
> 
>   Paul
>   http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
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> 
>   Please follow these basic guidelines:
>   - Include your full name with your message.
>   - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>   - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
>   - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
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>   - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>   - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Don, if you have 2 prints side by side, best quality you can make, what
are the visible differences between canon and epson prints?

Jerry



Don Rooney wrote:

> 
> Paul
> One other very good feature about the Canon's -- the print head is a very easy snap out -- snap in change. The cost per head is around $90.00. I have never had need to change one but it would not take more an a minute or two to do. I think I have made over 400 - 8.5 x 11 color prints so far.
> D

At 08:31 PM 4/19/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>Paul
>I have a Canon S9000 (13 x 19) and a Canon BJC 8200 (8.5 x 11). Both units
take the SAME exact carts (no chips) and the machines are over 2 years apart
in age from each other. So Canon does not force you to have several
different carts for several different machines --- a nice feature I think !
IMHO the Canon out prints any Epson I've ever seen (please no flames -- just
my opinion) in the color category. The carts are very easy to refill and
because of the big (relative size to the Epson) sponge in the cart -- no
foam issues. And I guess because of the way Canon gets the ink out of the
carts there is no vacuum needed.  To me it looks gravity fed but I'm sure
its some other high tech solution. I have had the BJC 8200 for over 2 years
and never (never) any clogs. I have been waiting for any B&W inkset to come
out for the Canon units. I'd gladly start using them ASAP. You get them made
and I'll start buying them. One other thing -- I have never seen any banding
at all.
>Don Rooney
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Paul Roark 
>  To: DigitalB&WPrint 
>  Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 7:19 PM
>  Subject: [Digital BW] Canon printers

Don,

Jumping up and down with excitiment - can you set the print size to any
length???  How about monochromes and duotones??  Metamerism?? 

AZ
Maker of Lookaround panoramic camera.
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/8874/
         or
keyword.com lookaround

Hi all,

Anyone know the length of a print the new canon printers can produce?

If you use the same inks as you've been using in the epson printers,
would you need a new profile?

I'd love to see a professional quality print made with a canon, but the
samples at the store are a joke.

Jerry

Paul, if the canon printers have printheads that come with the
cartridges, (not sure that they do), you couldn't refill them too many
times before you'd have problems.

Jerry

Paul Roark wrote:

> 
> Has anyone had any experiences with the Canon printers?
> 
> As you know, I'm a big fan of competition.  So, if there is an alternate
> printer for third party inks -- B&W quads in particular -- it would seem to
> be a real boon to those of us on this list.
> 
> MIS has told me they are getting strong demand for quadtone inks for
> the Canon S800, S900, S9000 printers.  They are just finishing a
> Continuous Flow set up for them.   I
> 
> MIS thinks Canon has done a good job in trying  to come up to the Epson
> standard.  If Epson is a 10 on the zero to 10 scale, then the new Canon
> printers are a 9 + in MIS's opinion.
> 
> Some attractive characteristics of the Canon machines include that refilling
> is easy, with no foam problems like the Epson's, and there are
> no chips to deal with.  Moreover, each color has it's own cartridge and
> they are see through.
> 
> Any opinions or interest in these machines?  I'm thinking a "no curves,"
> modified FS-Neutral inkset might be a way to get the ball rolling in giving
> Epson a little competition in our area of interest.
> 
> Any opinions or interest in these machines or quad inksets for them?
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Jerry
Let me first say, that so far I have only used the Canon for color work. I would use B&W inksets when available, but use Epson 880 printer for B&W because I can get preloaded MIS VM and MIS FS carts for the Epson.
That being said
Two prints side by side. The blends are smoother. It appears to be continuous tone (no banding -- very smooth transition of subtle tones). Shadows print more open. Better colors - truer color right out of the box. I don't profile papers or ink  -- just print and I'm very happy with the results as are my final critics -- the people who buy the prints and the people who review my portfolio (maybe I mean easier to get better color results). I do not use any densitometers or meters, all results are IMHO. The Epson color prints always looked unreal to me ( but still very good) the Canon color prints are a whole step or two better. 

These are just my opinions and not meant to be the start of a Canon vs Epson war. I think Paul brings up a good point about healthy competition, we will all benefit from it.

If your Epson printer does every thing you need it to do then that's great. If it doesn't maybe Canon is the answer or HP, but it's time to start pushing the envelope again.

Don

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jerry Olson 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 8:47 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Canon printers


  Don, if you have 2 prints side by side, best quality you can make, what
  are the visible differences between canon and epson prints?

  Jerry



  Don Rooney wrote:
  > 
  > Paul
  > One other very good feature about the Canon's -- the print head is a very easy snap out -- snap in change. The cost per head is around $90.00. I have never had need to change one but it would not take more an a minute or two to do. I think I have made over 400 - 8.5 x 11 color prints so far.
  > D

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jerry
The print head is a separate piece and one comes with the printer. You could buy an extra one and keep it loaded with color carts and have one loaded with B&W inkset. Just take one out put in the other one --- no purging etc. Head alignment is a simple software routine just like the Epson alignment test you can run ( at least on my small Epson 880's it's simple)
You buy the carts separate from the print head. To date I have not replaced a head.
Don

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jerry Olson 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 8:56 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Canon printers


  Paul, if the canon printers have printheads that come with the
  cartridges, (not sure that they do), you couldn't refill them too many
  times before you'd have problems.

  Jerry




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Don-

Is that a recommended procedure from Canon? It sounds to me as though 
that would cause the ink to dry and wreck the head???

tom

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Don Rooney <donr@r...> 
wrote:
> Jerry
> The print head is a separate piece and one comes with the printer. 
You could buy an extra one and keep it loaded with color carts and 
have one loaded with B&W inkset. Just take one out put in the other 
one --- no purging etc. Head alignment is a simple software routine 
just like the Epson alignment test you can run ( at least on my small 
Epson 880's it's simple)
> You buy the carts separate from the print head. To date I have not 
replaced a head.
> Don
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Jerry Olson 
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y... 
>   Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 8:56 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Canon printers
> 
> 
>   Paul, if the canon printers have printheads that come with the
>   cartridges, (not sure that they do), you couldn't refill them too 
many

>   times before you'd have problems.
> 
>   Jerry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tom
I have not seen it recommended by Canon, but have not seen it not recommended either (oh no a double negative --Sister Margaret Mary will be really upset with me). 
Don

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: tomoc 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 9:37 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Canon printers


  Don-

  Is that a recommended procedure from Canon? It sounds to me as though 
  that would cause the ink to dry and wreck the head???

  tom

  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Don Rooney <donr@r...> 
  wrote:
  > Jerry
  > The print head is a separate piece and one comes with the printer. 
  You could buy an extra one and keep it loaded with color carts and 
  have one loaded with B&W inkset. Just take one out put in the other 
  one --- no purging etc. Head alignment is a simple software routine 
  just like the Epson alignment test you can run ( at least on my small 
  Epson 880's it's simple)
  > You buy the carts separate from the print head. To date I have not 
  replaced a head.
  > Don
  >   ----- Original Message ----- 
  >   From: Jerry Olson 
  >   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y... 
  >   Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 8:56 AM
  >   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Canon printers
  > 
  > 
  >   Paul, if the canon printers have printheads that come with the
  >   cartridges, (not sure that they do), you couldn't refill them too 
  many
  >   times before you'd have problems.
  > 
  >   Jerry
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I used to refill Canon carts on a 4-color BJ600 some years ago. The carts
were tiny & refilling was messy.

The bigger issue was that the bubblejets simply were not very durable. None
of them lasted very long. Epsons, by comparison, are tanks.

I stopped buying Canon bubblejets several years ago, so maybe their quality
has improved... They certainly do make great cameras.

But I will not be the one to test their new printers.
-BK

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Canon printers


> If these cartridges are really easy to refill, could we not just get
> blank cartridges and refill them with the MIS VM inkset? We wouldn't
> really need a CIS system for the printer if the cartridges were easy to
fill!
>
> Paul, would you have to write curves for this setup, or could you use
> the same MIS curves for both the Canon and Epson? The canon has a higher
> resolution than epson, doesn't it?
>
> I'll be in the market for another printer in a few months, so just want
> to check this out before buying.
>
> Jerry
>
> Don Rooney wrote:
> >
> > Paul
> > I have a Canon S9000 (13 x 19) and a Canon BJC 8200 (8.5 x 11). Both
units take the SAME exact carts (no chips) and the machines are over 2 years
apart in age from each other. So Canon does not force you to have several
different carts for several different machines --- a nice feature I think !
IMHO the Canon out prints any Epson I've ever seen (please no flames -- just
my opinion) in the color category. The carts are very easy to refill and
because of the big (relative size to the Epson) sponge in the cart -- no
foam issues. And I guess because of the way Canon gets the ink out of the
carts there is no vacuum needed.  To me it looks gravity fed but I'm sure
its some other high tech solution. I have had the BJC 8200 for over 2 years
and never (never) any clogs. I have been waiting for any B&W inkset to come
out for the Canon units. I'd gladly start using them ASAP. You get them made
and I'll start buying them. One other thing -- I have never seen any banding
at all.
> > Don Rooney
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: Paul Roark
> >   To: DigitalB&WPrint
> >   Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 7:19 PM
> >   Subject: [Digital BW] Canon printers
> >
> >   Has anyone had any experiences with the Canon printers?
> >
> >   As you know, I'm a big fan of competition.  So, if there is an
alternate
> >   printer for third party inks -- B&W quads in particular -- it would
seem to
> >   be a real boon to those of us on this list.
> >
> >   MIS has told me they are getting strong demand for quadtone inks for
> >   the Canon S800, S900, S9000 printers.  They are just finishing a
> >   Continuous Flow set up for them.   I
> >
> >   MIS thinks Canon has done a good job in trying  to come up to the
Epson
> >   standard.  If Epson is a 10 on the zero to 10 scale, then the new
Canon
> >   printers are a 9 + in MIS's opinion.
> >
> >   Some attractive characteristics of the Canon machines include that
refilling
> >   is easy, with no foam problems like the Epson's, and there are
> >   no chips to deal with.  Moreover, each color has it's own cartridge
and
> >   they are see through.
> >
> >   Any opinions or interest in these machines?  I'm thinking a "no
curves,"
> >   modified FS-Neutral inkset might be a way to get the ball rolling in
giving
> >   Epson a little competition in our area of interest.
> >
> >   Any opinions or interest in these machines or quad inksets for them?
> >
> >   Paul
> >   http://www.PaulRoark.com
> >
> >         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >               ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >
> >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
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Barry
The Canon's I'm talking about are the BJC-8200 (8.5 x 11), BJC-8500 (13 x 19) these are the older units and the S900 (8.5 x 11) and S9000 (13 x 19) the newest units.
All of these take individual carts and are 6 color machines. Refilling is straight forward and easy. At least for me.
Don

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Barry Kelsall 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 10:29 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Canon printers


  I used to refill Canon carts on a 4-color BJ600 some years ago. The carts
  were tiny & refilling was messy.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Don, how is their durability? As I said, my experiences are dated. Will the
bubblejet design work with pigment inks? I haven't kept up with Canon
printers. The BJC600 was only 300 dpi, if I remember. There are a couple
prints hanging around that still look like they haven't faded. But the
printer itself lasted just past the warranty. I foolishly had it overhauled
& it lasted 6 mos. more. Several smaller color & b-w units used on occasion
in an office environment fared about the same, though I never overhauled any
of them!

My experiences with  Epsons have been that they retire due to obsolescence,
not mechanical failure.
-BK

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Rooney" <donr@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Canon printers


> Barry
> The Canon's I'm talking about are the BJC-8200 (8.5 x 11), BJC-8500 (13 x
19) these are the older units and the S900 (8.5 x 11) and S9000 (13 x 19)
the newest units.
> All of these take individual carts and are 6 color machines. Refilling is
straight forward and easy. At least for me.
> Don
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Barry Kelsall
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 10:29 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Canon printers
>
>
>   I used to refill Canon carts on a 4-color BJ600 some years ago. The
carts
>   were tiny & refilling was messy.
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
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>

Thanks for the info Don,

How long can you make a 12 inch wide canon print on their top of the line printer?

Jerry

Barry 
The Canon inks were upgraded about a year ago to pigmented. Canon actually sent every registered owner a full set of carts ( no charge) to replace the dye based inks that they discontinued, they also posted new drivers based on the new inks. New inks and drivers fired up smoothly--no problems.
Durability ??? I use mine at home and so far it seems fine (I also had a older color Canon at work that didn't do to well in a business environment.) Under the hood my Canon BJC-8200 looks as well made as any of my Epson's. Scitex chose the larger model Canon BJC-8500 to use as a offset printing proofer device and Heidelberg includes one as a proofer on their 4 color DI presses. None of the people I deal with in the offset printing world has ever complained about the Canon so I think the reliability issue is solved. I just purchased a new S9000 Canon (13 x 19) and will be setting it up this weekend and will be taking my older BJC-8200 (8.5 x 11) to the office to output PDF's for my sales staff to use -- I'll put it through some work related tests of durability.
Don

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Barry Kelsall 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 12:24 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Canon printers


  Don, how is their durability? As I said, my experiences are dated. Will the
  bubblejet design work with pigment inks? I haven't kept up with Canon
  printers. The BJC600 was only 300 dpi, if I remember. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

How long can the canon print?

Jerry

Don Rooney wrote:

> Barry
> The Canon inks were upgraded about a year ago to pigmented. Canon actually sent every registered owner a full set of carts ( no charge) to replace the dye based inks that they discontinued, they also posted new drivers based on the new inks. New inks and drivers fired up smoothly--no problems.

Jerry Olson wrote:

> How long can the canon print? (Length of print)
>
> Jerry
>
> Don Rooney wrote:
>
> > Barry
> > The Canon inks were upgraded about a year ago to pigmented. Canon actually sent every registered owner a full set of carts ( no charge) to replace the dye based inks that they discontinued, they also posted new drivers based on the new inks. New inks and drivers fired up smoothly--no problems.
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
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> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Jerry
My older BJC-8200 can print up to  8.5 x 23.39 if I go to the "custom size" window in driver box. I have not set up the new S9000 (13 x 19) printer yet.
I have quickly looked at the new manual and they talk about printing banners -- up to 6 sheets long so I'm not sure if that's 6 x 11" =66" long or 6 x 19" (this is a 13 x 19 printer)= 114" long. After I get it set up and installed I'll let you know for sure.
Don

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jerry Olson 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 3:40 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Canon printers


  How long can the canon print?

  Jerry

  Don Rooney wrote:

  > Barry
  > The Canon inks were upgraded about a year ago to pigmented. Canon actually sent every registered owner a full set of carts ( no charge) to replace the dye based inks that they discontinued, they also posted new drivers based on the new inks. New inks and drivers fired up smoothly--no problems.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jerry Olson wrote:

> Paul, if the canon printers have printheads that come with the
> cartridges, (not sure that they do),


Nope, the printhead is separate..

It is user replaceable though... Which means in case of a serious clog, 
you DON'T need to send it to a service center! Theoretically, a pro 
could keep an extra printhead around (costs about $150) and snap it in 
when changing inksets.. or if a serious printhead issue ever comes up..

BTW -- I have a 1270, a 1280, and an S9000.. I like the S9000 best..  I 
will be testing it with Generations v5 inks (already here) and Lyson 
Fotonics.. once I finish the basic review article I am writing on it..

[Keith]
 
 

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Don Rooney wrote:

> Jerry
> The print head is a separate piece and one comes with the printer. You 
> could buy an extra one and keep it loaded with color carts and have 
> one loaded with B&W inkset.


Theoretically you could..

But EPSON did a job on Canon vís the 8200 having the same option..  It 
seems EPSON convinced retailers that the printheads would wear out and 
that is why they were user replaceable.. So, vendors convinced buyers to 
get a second printhead... Most of those printheads never saw service and 
Canon was faced with a lot of upset ppl who had spent money for nothing..

So, as a direct result, Canon will ONLY let you have a new printhead for 
the S900/S9000 if you return the old one..  AGGGGHH!!  I'm trying to 
convince them to turn the replaceable printhead into a positive 
marketing tool, instead of reacting to EPSON, but getting nowhere..

I have suggested they give an extended warranty on the printheads, while 
still selling the printhead directly from Canon Pro Services or 
something of that nature.. From my position, that would kill both "birds"..

[Keith]
 
 

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Don,

Jerry

> After I get it set up and installed I'll let you know for sure.
> Don
>

Thanks for the info Keith,

In your review, please tell us how the new canon differs from the epson 1280, and if it has any serious drawbacks.

Jerry

> BTW -- I have a 1270, a 1280, and an S9000.. I like the S9000 best..  I
> will be testing it with Generations v5 inks (already here) and Lyson
> Fotonics.. once I finish the basic review article I am writing on it..

Jerry Olson wrote:

> Thanks for the info Keith,
>
> In your review, please tell us how the new canon differs from the 
> epson 1280, and if it has any serious drawbacks.


Funny you should ask.. The 1280 is the focus of a separate review by me 
that will run first...

Will give you  the links to each piece as soon as they are pout up by 
the pubs...

>

[Keith]
 
 

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 4/20/02 6:40:31 PM, jerryolson@... writes:

<< > > The Canon inks were upgraded about a year ago to pigmented. Canon 
actually sent every registered owner a full set of carts ( no charge) to 
replace the dye based inks that they discontinued, they also posted new 
drivers based on the new inks. New inks and drivers fired up smoothly--no 
problems. >>


I'm fairly sure they are longer lasting dyes.  Thus, their 20 or so yr fade 
numbers.

All the best!

-Andrew Darlow

Photography, Digital Print Consulting and Custom Editions
Andrew Darlow Images International, NYC - www.andydarlow.com
Author: Inkjet Tip of the Month Club (newsletter) 
To subscribe, send e-mail to: Inkjettips-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

In a message dated 4/20/02 1:34:11 PM, bktimes@... writes:

<< I used to refill Canon carts on a 4-color BJ600 some years ago. The carts
were tiny & refilling was messy. >>

I'm wondering why it was messy.  it seems like such an easy cart to fill with 
no  sponge on the top, just a chamber for ink.

Thanks,

Andrew Darlow

Photography, Digital Print Consulting and Custom Editions
Andrew Darlow Images International, NYC - www.andydarlow.com
Author: Inkjet Tip of the Month Club (newsletter) 
To subscribe, send e-mail to: Inkjettips-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

In a message dated 4/20/02 1:50:07 PM, donr@... writes:

<< All of these take individual carts and are 6 color machines. Refilling is 
straight forward and easy. At least for me.
Don >>

Hi Don:

Do you always pop out the carts to refill.  it seems that they can easily be 
filled while still seated.(At least on my 8200.

Thanks,

Andrew Darlow

Photography, Digital Print Consulting and Custom Editions
Andrew Darlow Images International, NYC - www.andydarlow.com
Author: Inkjet Tip of the Month Club (newsletter) 
To subscribe, send e-mail to: Inkjettips-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Interesting Keith,

I have a user in mainland Europe who said he was waiting for his extra
print-head - he didn't mention anything to me about having to return his
original one!!! My natural thought with this swappable print-head was that
it was purposeful to _allow_ the use of third-party and / or 'different'
inksets in the same printer. i.e. My nieve extrapolation; People get pissed
off with Epson chipping etc, Canon Release printer with easily swappable
ink-sets and no chips to win that market over.

Perhaps though, this is a US / Europe difference in tactics for Canon, and /
or they realised that swappable print-heads mean that instead of selling two
printers they might just sell one, but with two print heads!

Nij

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Editor P.O.V. Image Service [mailto:editor@...]
> Sent: 21 April 2002 04:02
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Canon printers

<snip>

>
> So, as a direct result, Canon will ONLY let you have a new printhead for
> the S900/S9000 if you return the old one..  AGGGGHH!!  I'm trying to
> convince them to turn the replaceable printhead into a positive
> marketing tool, instead of reacting to EPSON, but getting nowhere..
>
> I have suggested they give an extended warranty on the printheads, while
> still selling the printhead directly from Canon Pro Services or
> something of that nature.. From my position, that would kill both
> "birds"..
>
> [Keith]

Nij aoth44 wrote:

> Interesting Keith,
>
> I have a user in mainland Europe who said he was waiting for his extra
> print-head - he didn't mention anything to me about having to return his
> original one!!!

For now, let's just say that Canon USA was not too excited about me even 
asking about swapping out printheads when researching my article..

> My natural thought with this swappable print-head was that
> it was purposeful to _allow_ the use of third-party and / or 'different'
> inksets in the same printer. i.e. My nieve extrapolation; People get 
> pissed
> off with Epson chipping etc, Canon Release printer with easily swappable
> ink-sets and no chips to win that market over.

It would be a GREAT Public Relations move, but, I think you better check 
this link:

http://www.canon.com/press/pelikan.html

I don't think they will try a similar suit here... but, who knows?

>
> Perhaps though, this is a US / Europe difference in tactics for Canon, 
> and /
> or they realised that swappable print-heads mean that instead of 
> selling two
> printers they might just sell one, but with two print heads!


Well, in the US, courts have looked with extreme disfavor on vendors who 
try to use patent to lock-up the consumables market..  HP got slammed 
for that a few years back.

That may well be why Canon doesn't worry about selling extra printheads 
in Europe..  If nobody can sell you ink cartridges for it...  

Whereas in the US, the courts have seen trying to lock up the 
consumables as attempts at  vertical monopoly..

Of course, given the current fluid international internet market, one 
could just buy a printhead from a UK supplier and buy cartridges from 
the US via the internet..


>
>

[Keith]
 
 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nij,

Can you ask your user what the spare printhead cost him, and which Canon 
division ?

I need the info for a piece I am writing for Euro Distribution..

Canon has been in no rush to get me the Euro pricing info... or to tell 
me whether the printhead return policy applies there..  No surprise, if 
the info from your user and the suit filing are correct..

[Keith]
 
 

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I must admit, I thought that we (in the UK, which almost implies 'Europe')
had something similar, but maybe Canon are just trying-it-on?

Like patenting something like 'storing digital data on a disk like format
that is accessible in parallel with multiple format (eg. video, audio,
data') which probably sounds really unique to the patent office until every
CD manufacturer comes along and appeals ;)

Nij


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Editor P.O.V. Image Service [mailto:editor@...]
> Sent: 21 April 2002 11:29
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Canon printers Print-Heads
<snip>

>
> Well, in the US, courts have looked with extreme disfavor on vendors who
> try to use patent to lock-up the consumables market..  HP got slammed
> for that a few years back.
>
> That may well be why Canon doesn't worry about selling extra printheads
> in Europe..  If nobody can sell you ink cartridges for it...
>
> Whereas in the US, the courts have seen trying to lock up the
> consumables as attempts at  vertical monopoly..
>
> Of course, given the current fluid international internet market, one
> could just buy a printhead from a UK supplier and buy cartridges from
> the US via the internet..
>

Will do!

If you have contacts at Canon, you can probably tell them straight out that
a lot of users (and third party suppliers) would commute to supporting Canon
(and encouraging printer sales) if they followed up on the possibilities!
The fact that large corporations CAN use different laws in different
countries is all very real and possible for them, but perhaps they should
ask themselves (as in the case with Pelikan link you provided) if it is
sensible or a coherent strategy for them to do. If they allowed themselves
to 'allow' the third party element, they might have to raise prices
worldwide but it would open up major opportunites for them.

I agree with anti-piracy legal moves... but as long as a corporate body
ignores the fact that a large number of users can legally buy stuff easily
internationally it kind of defies the point, and it becomes 'corporate
nitpicking'. Whilst I would actually not like to see this happen, they
potentially could start a Canon-approved (Epson-approved, whatever-approved)
program where they could get $0.0x for every approved third party cart sold,
and whilst this would undoubtedly not be the same as the profit they make on
their own inks, it could still amount to millions of dollars. Wouldn't it?

I find the lack of parallels to the inkjet market interesting! We don't buy
a Kenwood kettle and expect to only be able to use it with Kenwood tea and
kenwood water. We don't buy a Ford with Ford-tyres (that all the mechanics
know are made by xxxxx) and a Ford-brand starter motor. We get a list of
parts that says it's a Lucas xxx motor (or whatever), and when we buy petrol
(gas) we might be told to look for 98RON unleaded, but not 'Ford unleaded'.
PlayStation games may have to be Sony approved, but they are not 'Sony'
games (well I'm sure Sony do rebrand like this, but, they don't expect to do
it all the time).

This is getting all a bit esoteric and probably not very B&W oriented... but
it still is just us wishing for companies to allow us to do easily for
ourselves, what they can't be bothered to do themselves!

Best,
nij

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Editor P.O.V. Image Service [mailto:editor@...]
> Sent: 21 April 2002 11:59
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Canon printers Print-Heads
>
>
> Nij,
>
> Can you ask your user what the spare printhead cost him, and which Canon
> division ?
>
> I need the info for a piece I am writing for Euro Distribution..
>
> Canon has been in no rush to get me the Euro pricing info... or to tell
> me whether the printhead return policy applies there..  No surprise, if
> the info from your user and the suit filing are correct..
>
> [Keith]
>

>
> The fact that large corporations CAN use different laws in different
> countries is all very real and possible for them, but perhaps they 
> should
> ask themselves (as in the case with Pelikan link you provided) if it is
> sensible or a coherent strategy for them to do. If they allowed 
> themselves
> to 'allow' the third party element, they might have to raise prices
> worldwide but it would open up major opportunites for them.
>
FWIW, for about a year 3rd party refilled carts, made in Germany, have 
been on sale here in Denmark in all the high street shops for all inkjet 
printers at half the price of OEM´s. When I asked in a local shop about 
them I was told that they are not garanted to work but so far no one has 
returned them and the shop does sell more of them than OEM´s. 
Presumably, we are not talking archival ink here and we suspect that 
most of the inks come from just a few manufactures. I would not be too 
surprised if the carts available here were similar to the " Darn good 
inks" supplied in the US and elsewhere.

Here, Lexmark was always more popular here than Epson, followed by HP 
and the current trend is a move to Canon. Canon´s individual ink tanks 
being a major selling point.

Jerry.

> << I used to refill Canon carts on a 4-color BJ600 some years ago. The
carts
> were tiny & refilling was messy. >>
>
> I'm wondering why it was messy.  it seems like such an easy cart to fill
with
> no  sponge on the top, just a chamber for ink.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andrew Darlow
>
> Photography, Digital Print Consulting and Custom Editions
> Andrew Darlow Images International, NYC - www.andydarlow.com
> Author: Inkjet Tip of the Month Club (newsletter)
> To subscribe, send e-mail to: Inkjettips-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>

As a happy CIS/CFS user, I would assert that any method of transferring ink
with syringes, squeeze bottles or whatever is inherently messy.

At any rate,  that was years ago, as I said. I don't clearly remember the
details of the mess creations, but I do remember there were occasional
puddles of ink. I was explaining my history that created my bias against
Canon & not trying to slam the current crop of Canons. From the posts in
this thread, it sounds like Canon may be worth another look.   -BK

At 03:51 PM 4/20/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>Jerry
>My older BJC-8200 can print up to  8.5 x 23.39 if I go to the "custom size"
window in driver box. I have not set up the new S9000 (13 x 19) printer yet.
>I have quickly looked at the new manual and they talk about printing
banners -- up to 6 sheets long so I'm not sure if that's 6 x 11" =66" long
or 6 x 19" (this is a 13 x 19 printer)= 114" long. After I get it set up and
installed I'll let you know for sure.
>Don
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Jerry Olson 
>  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
>  Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 3:40 PM
>  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Canon printers
>
>
>  How long can the canon print?
>
>  Jerry
>
Don,

That is good news - hurry up and find out ;-)  My HP980 printer has a
"banner" setting but it only works for 8-1/2 x 11, folded banner paper.

What is the model no. of the latest and bestest 8-1/2 x 11 Canon photo printer?

RE  having two sets of print heads with two types of inks - it seems to me
that would be  practical.  Kept in a zip-lock bag with blotter paper they
should remain clog-free.

AZ
Maker of Lookaround panoramic camera.
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/8874/
         or
keyword.com lookaround

Andy
Yes, I take the carts out and refill them. I'm afraid that I would spill some ink down inside the printer if I filled the carts while still in the printer but you could easily do it. When you open the top and the cart / printhead comes to the center of the opening you have plenty of space to work on the carts. (sort of like the cars of the 50's and 60's ==plenty of room to get around under the hood)
Don

  Do you always pop out the carts to refill.  it seems that they can easily be 
  filled while still seated.(At least on my 8200.

  Thanks,

  Andrew Darlow




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alan
I have hooked up the S9000 Canon and played with the paper sizes. It seems that the max size you can print to is 13 x 23.39 ". It does allow for banner printing but -- like your HP it is limited to 6 sheets of 8.5 x 11" banner paper.
Even with setting the image size to 8.5 x 32" in Photoshop it stopped printing after 12" or so....... I think it was confused and didn't know what to do.
Don

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Alan Zinn 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 9:41 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Canon printers


  At 03:51 PM 4/20/2002 -0700, you wrote:
  >Jerry
  >My older BJC-8200 can print up to  8.5 x 23.39 if I go to the "custom size"
  window in driver box. 
  That is good news - hurry up and find out ;-)  My HP980 printer has a
  "banner" setting but it only works for 8-1/2 x 11, folded banner paper.

  What is the model no. of the latest and bestest 8-1/2 x 11 Canon photo printer?




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 07:23 PM 4/21/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>Alan
>I have hooked up the S9000 Canon and played with the paper sizes. It seems
that the max size you can print to is 13 x 23.39 ". It does allow for banner
printing but -- like your HP it is limited to 6 sheets of 8.5 x 11" banner
paper.
>Even with setting the image size to 8.5 x 32" in Photoshop it stopped
printing after 12" or so....... I think it was confused and didn't know what
to do.
>Don

Don,

Don,

I was afraid of that.  I wonder if there is some wizard out there who knows
how to mess with the Canon driver? Or, is there someone on the list who has
corresponded with Canon re technical issues and could put a bug in their ear??

Thanks for trying. I could live with a small Canon printer that would do
8-1/2 x 23. 

AZ
Maker of Lookaround panoramic camera.
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/8874/
         or
keyword.com lookaround

Actually there are a few business models that parallel ink jet. One 
is razor blades- very similar- give the razor away at cost and make 
money off the replacement blades = give the printer away at cost and 
make money off the cartridges. OEMs try everything in their technical 
and legal power to keep you from doing exactly what the B&W and 
refill market is doing. They will often threaten to void warranties 
if you use anything other than their ink and cartridges and warn that 
non OEM ink will ruin their printers. If they aren't selling carts 
they aren't making money and that's all the big three are really 
intersted in. And it's not that bad a thing anyway. When the oems do 
something it's usually in a way that they think is best and it's your 
place as a customer to shut up and be happy with it-"they know best". 
You get much more verstility to smaller aftermarket interests who 
care and will respond to a groups needs.

Jeff

 
> I find the lack of parallels to the inkjet market interesting! We 
don't buy
> a Kenwood kettle and expect to only be able to use it with Kenwood 
tea and
> kenwood water. We don't buy a Ford with Ford-tyres (that all the 
mechanics
> know are made by xxxxx) and a Ford-brand starter motor. We get a 
list of
> parts that says it's a Lucas xxx motor (or whatever), and when we 
buy petrol
> (gas) we might be told to look for 98RON unleaded, but not 'Ford 
unleaded'.
> PlayStation games may have to be Sony approved, but they are 
not 'Sony'
> games (well I'm sure Sony do rebrand like this, but, they don't 
expect to do
> it all the time).
> 
> This is getting all a bit esoteric and probably not very B&W 
oriented... but
> it still is just us wishing for companies to allow us to do easily 
for
> ourselves, what they can't be bothered to do themselves!
> 
> Best,
> nij
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Editor P.O.V. Image Service [mailto:editor@p...]
> > Sent: 21 April 2002 11:59
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Canon printers Print-Heads
> >
> >
> > Nij,
> >
> > Can you ask your user what the spare printhead cost him, and 
which Canon
> > division ?
> >
> > I need the info for a piece I am writing for Euro Distribution..
> >
> > Canon has been in no rush to get me the Euro pricing info... or 
to tell
> > me whether the printhead return policy applies there..  No 
surprise, if

> > the info from your user and the suit filing are correct..
> >
> > [Keith]
> >

In article <002801c1e81b$cd77dc30$1900a8c0@don>, donr@... (Don 
Rooney) wrote:

> Paul
> I have a Canon S9000 (13 x 19) and a Canon BJC 8200 (8.5 x 11). Both 
> units take the SAME exact carts (no chips) and the machines are over 2 
> years apart in age from each other. 

Canon produced a new ink formulation for the S800 and subsequent printers, 
but they did make the design compatible with the BJC 8200, 
allowing a straight substitution provided you also changed the 8200 
drivers I believe.

The S900 and S9000 heads have more nozzles than the S800 I think, allowing 
faster printing still while still using the same ink tanks.


> So Canon does not force you to have 
> several different carts for several different machines --- a nice 
> feature I think ! 

Epson do have inks shared by different models, especially the black!

> IMHO the Canon out prints any Epson I've ever seen 
> (please no flames -- just my opinion) in the color category. 

I've owned both an Epson 890 and a Canon S800, and I cannot see any real 
difference between them.

I wouldn't use inks formulated for low temperature Epson printers in a 
high temperature Canon head.

In article <3CC18D3D.92C85262@...>, jerryolson@... (Jerry Olson) 
wrote:

> If these cartridges are really easy to refill, could we not just get
> blank cartridges and refill them with the MIS VM inkset? We wouldn't
> really need a CIS system for the printer if the cartridges were easy to 
> fill!

Just which Epson are you comparing the Canon to?

The Epson 880 is a 4-colour printer, so I wouldn't expect its colour photo 
performance to be up to a 6 or 7 colour printer of any make.

In article <002f01c1e885$3f67dbb0$1900a8c0@don>, donr@... (Don 
Rooney) wrote:

> Jerry
> Let me first say, that so far I have only used the Canon for color 
> work. I would use B&W inksets when available, but use Epson 880 printer 
> for B&W because I can get preloaded MIS VM and MIS FS carts for the 
> Epson.
> That being said
> Two prints side by side. The blends are smoother. It appears to be 
> continuous tone (no banding -- very smooth transition of subtle tones). 
> Shadows print more open. Better colors - truer color right out of the 
> box. I don't profile papers or ink  -- just print and I'm very happy 
> with the results as are my final critics -- the people who buy the 
> prints and the people who review my portfolio (maybe I mean easier to 
> get better color results). I do not use any densitometers or meters, 
> all results are IMHO. The Epson color prints always looked unreal to me 
> ( but still very good) the Canon color prints are a whole step or two 
> better.

I don't think the BC6 inks use pigment, they are just reformulated dye 
inks that have better longevity and can support smaller drop sizes on the 
newer printers.

In article <000601c1e8a7$0c14d980$1900a8c0@don>, donr@... (Don 
Rooney) wrote:

> Barry 
> The Canon inks were upgraded about a year ago to pigmented. Canon 
> actually sent every registered owner a full set of carts ( no charge) 
> to replace the dye based inks that they discontinued, they also posted 
> new drivers based on the new inks. New inks and drivers fired up 
> smoothly--no problems.

The S900.

In article <2.2.32.20020421164132.01785550@...>, AZinn@... 
(Alan Zinn) wrote:
> What is the model no. of the latest and bestest 8-1/2 x 11 Canon photo 
> printer?

The S900 and S9000 can print borderless, so another possibility might be 
to try using software that can automatically split a pano file into panes.

There might be a small quality loss at the joins though.

In article <001701c1e9a4$b6941170$1900a8c0@don>, donr@... (Don 
Rooney) wrote:

> Alan
> I have hooked up the S9000 Canon and played with the paper sizes. It 
> seems that the max size you can print to is 13 x 23.39 ". It does allow 
> for banner printing but -- like your HP it is limited to 6 sheets of 
> 8.5 x 11" banner paper.
> Even with setting the image size to 8.5 x 32" in Photoshop it stopped 
> printing after 12" or so....... I think it was confused and didn't know 
> what to do.
> Don

Don Rooney wrote:

> Paul
> One other very good feature about the Canon's -- the print head is a 
> very easy snap out -- snap in change. The cost per head is around $90.00. 

1)    The head cost is $154.36...

2)    Canon will only give you a new printhead (in the US) if you return 
the old one as a core...

3)    Profiler Plus does a great job of profiling this printer from 
within the sRGB color space..

Just started burning the OEM ink profiles two days ago...

The tendency towards overly yellow prints is very EPSON-like..

4)    I would not rely on the built in ICM it's way funky...(it's 
actually a CMYK monitor profile-- seen one of those lately?) That means 
the driver is doing some really strange things..

5)    I do like the Canon Photo Paper Pro.. Not sure if I like it as 
much for glossies as EPSON PGPP though..

Keith

In a message dated 4/26/02 7:13:45 AM, derek_c@... writes:

<< I wouldn't use inks formulated for low temperature Epson printers in a 
high temperature Canon head. >>

I'm curious if there really is a problem doing this.  I have an old 
8200(similar to S900/9000) which had some problems so I'll fill a cart with 
the most difficult and clog free color, MIS VM black and see what happens.

All the best!

-Andrew Darlow

Photography, Digital Print Consulting and Custom Editions
Andrew Darlow Images International, NYC - www.andrewdarlow.com
Author: Inkjet Tip of the Month Club (newsletter) 
To subscribe, send e-mail to: Inkjettips-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

At 12:11 PM 4/26/2002 +0100, you wrote:
>The S900 and S9000 can print borderless, so another possibility might be 
>to try using software that can automatically split a pano file into panes.
>
>There might be a small quality loss at the joins though.
>
>In article <001701c1e9a4$b6941170$1900a8c0@don>, donr@... (Don 
>Rooney) wrote:
>
>> Alan
>> I have hooked up the S9000 Canon and played with the paper sizes. It 
>> seems that the max size you can print to is 13 x 23.39 ". It does allow 
>> for banner printing but -- like your HP it is limited to 6 sheets of 
>> 8.5 x 11" banner paper.
>> Even with setting the image size to 8.5 x 32" in Photoshop it stopped 
>> printing after 12" or so....... I think it was confused and didn't know 
>> what to do.
>> Don
>

Derek,

Thanks for the info on the 900 - do you know if it will print 8-1/2 x 23 in?
A 4 x 20in. pan is all I need for color. 

AZ
Maker of Lookaround panoramic camera.
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/8874/
         or
keyword.com lookaround

Derek
I'm comparing the Epson 1280 (6 color) to the Canon BJC-8200 (6 color). Bought the 1280 to do larger B&W work. I am using up the Color Carts first then will go to CIS -- still trying to figure out if I want the CIS to be MIS VM or MIS FS . I only use the Epson 880's for B&W work no color at all.
Don

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: derek_c@... 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Cc: derek_c@... 
  Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 3:11 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Canon printers


  Just which Epson are you comparing the Canon to?

  The Epson 880 is a 4-colour printer, so I wouldn't expect its colour photo 
  performance to be up to a 6 or 7 colour printer of any make.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Derek
That's why I'm waiting to hear what MIS 's research comes up with.
Don

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: derek_c@... 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Cc: derek_c@... 
  Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 3:11 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Canon printers


  I wouldn't use inks formulated for low temperature Epson printers in a 
  high temperature Canon head.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 4/26/02 12:43:04 PM, paul.roark@... writes:

<< It appears that the viscosity of the inks for Canon printers are entirely
different than for Epson printers.  So, the inksets have to be entirely new.
Too bad.  That probably means substantial delays before there will be an
FS-N equivalent.  A simple diluted-black quad like the FS will probably be
the first effort.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com >>

Has anyone else tested that issue because I was about to put some VM black 
ink in my 8200.

Thanks,

Andrew Darlow

Photography, Digital Print Consulting and Custom Editions
Andrew Darlow Images International, NYC - www.andydarlow.com
Author: Inkjet Tip of the Month Club (newsletter) 
To subscribe, send e-mail to: Inkjettips-subscribe@yahoogroups.com