Digital BW, The Print

----- Original Message -----

From: <sdmey4@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 6:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Lyson vs. piezo inks



(snip)

> A note about the new Piezotone inks:
> Many are under the impression that they are more neutral that the original
> sundance inks.
> I would have to say, not! The tone is very similar to the original
inks(warm)
> with the advantage being
> better blacks, and prints that come out looking like aged piezo prints
> already seasoned to there final hue.
> We have all seen the warming effect from piezo, and MIS inks, the
piezotones
> come out in a warmish
> state and that's the way they look 2 months later too.

Steven,

I agree with you that the PiezoTone Warm Neutral are not very close to
neutral at all. They should have just left the "Neutral" out of name. If
anyone out there is looking for a neutral ink set, this isn't it.

I don't find them as warm as the original Piezo or the MIS-FS though. Out of
the printer it is pretty close to the 50/50 blend of FS/FS Neutral I tried.
The PT Warm Neutral sure isn't as warm as some of my aged Piezo from last
year! I have a wedge on H. Torchon that has gone sepia. The warming really
seems heavily paper dependent.

The Selenium PiezoTones are a reality though and hopefully will be available
for sale July 15th as promised. The Cool Neutral flavor is also coming soon.
I hope that in one of those two (or a combination if you are willing to mix)
there will be something that is closer to neutral than we have seen before
in a Piezo compatible ink set.

Martin Wesley

Martin-

I definitely agree that the new Piezotones are not neutral...I have 
MIS FSN in one printer and the PT in another...huge difference in 
tones.

I may be imagining it, but the warmer tones seem to hold both 
highlight detail and shadow detail a bit better. This could be the 
result of printing them with exactly the same settings and the MIS 
inks probably should be tweaked just a touch.

Cheers,

tom


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Martin Wesley" 
<mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <sdmey4@a...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...>
> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 6:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Lyson vs. piezo inks
> 
> 
> 
> (snip)
> 
> > A note about the new Piezotone inks:
> > Many are under the impression that they are more neutral that the 
original
> > sundance inks.
> > I would have to say, not! The tone is very similar to the original
> inks(warm)
> > with the advantage being
> > better blacks, and prints that come out looking like aged piezo 
prints
> > already seasoned to there final hue.
> > We have all seen the warming effect from piezo, and MIS inks, the
> piezotones
> > come out in a warmish
> > state and that's the way they look 2 months later too.
> 
> Steven,
> 
> I agree with you that the PiezoTone Warm Neutral are not very close 
to
> neutral at all. They should have just left the "Neutral" out of 
name. If
> anyone out there is looking for a neutral ink set, this isn't it.
> 
> I don't find them as warm as the original Piezo or the MIS-FS 
though. Out of
> the printer it is pretty close to the 50/50 blend of FS/FS Neutral 
I tried.
> The PT Warm Neutral sure isn't as warm as some of my aged Piezo 
from last
> year! I have a wedge on H. Torchon that has gone sepia. The warming 
really
> seems heavily paper dependent.
> 
> The Selenium PiezoTones are a reality though and hopefully will be 
available
> for sale July 15th as promised. The Cool Neutral flavor is also 
coming soon.
> I hope that in one of those two (or a combination if you are 
willing to mix)
> there will be something that is closer to neutral than we have seen 
before

> in a Piezo compatible ink set.
> 
> Martin Wesley

On 7/7/02 10:49 AM, "tomoc" <TomOC@...> wrote:

> I definitely agree that the new Piezotones are not neutral...I have
> MIS FSN in one printer and the PT in another...huge difference in
> tones.

The MIS FSN inks aren't neutral either...they are significantly cool to my
eye.  I think neutral is in the eye of the beholder.  That's why Cone called
the first Piezotones Neutral-Warm and why another set of Piezotones to be
released this summer will be called Neutral-Cool (I'd guess that these will
be close in tonality to the FS-N set).  The logic is that if people want to
find "their neutral" they can mix...without having to make adjustments in
curves...using either the piezo or imageprint drivers.  While you could do
this in the past with the FS/FSN inks, this will be much better because
neither the warm or cool inkset will warm appreciably...thus it will be much
easier to find your best mix.

The Seleniums are yet another set of tones and my guess is that there will
also be a warm set in the not too distant future.  While this isn't as
flexible as the VM or small gamut approach which allows people to switch
between tonalities on the same printer...it instead provides them the
benefit of the easy piezo workflow and the large number of paper profiles.
It is easy to switch between inks sets using my 7000 and actually I've
recently considered maintaining multiple CIS systems for the different ink
sets...then switching tonality is as easy as just replacing carts and doing
a flush image or two.  For me anyway...it was a welcome addition to the list
of possibilities for quad printing.

Robert

Tom, Did you get my July Prints yet?  If not, I'll reprint them and get
them off to you right away.

Jerry